|
From: Patrick Henry <patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed
Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 9:02 AM
Dear Friend,
This is an automated acknowledgement.
Your message regarding:
Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not
Confirmed
has been received at the Baha'i World Centre.
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Subject: Your Message Has Been Received...
Apparently-To: patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com
From: Patrick Henry <patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed
Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:33 AM
Given the uhj's oppressive tactics and violation of the human rights
of
Linda and John Walbridge, Stephen Scholl, other editors of the
Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in
protest, David Langness, Juan Cole, Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini,
former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff who resigned,
and so on, and so on, and so on.... All the victims documented on my
website.... I hesitate to put the uhj above any reprehensible act....
Including conspiracy to murder Dr. Daniel Jordan.
I have been a member of the Bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card
may be found on my website. I have never been contacted by the uhj
or any of its underlings to the contrary.
Anything I have ever said is a matter of the sanctity of my individual
God-given conscience that both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha claimed
would never be violated in their religion.
I shall "cc" this message to the uhj so that they hear from
me directly
on the matter.
I would consider it an honor to be one of its official victims;
indeed,
the highest spiritual achievement of my Bahai life, defending
Baha'u'llah's
Teachings from the fanaticism that has overwhelmed and hamstrung his
Revelation.
--
Frederick Glaysher.... "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
David Fiorito and Jennifer Spotila <fiospots@pond.com> wrote in
message
news:3W_34.1724$jC1.177695@newshog.newsread.com...
> He has his ID card on his website. When asked he says he is a
registered
> Baha'i. So I decided to see if I could verify that he is what
he claims
to
> be.
>
> It was a simple check on status to see if his claim was fact. I
don't
know
> anything other than they could not confirm his membership. I
went no
> further because I really don't want to know more than that.
>
> Peace,
>
> Dave
>
>
> Carol wrote in message <82p30q$hd7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >In article <82p06t$f0o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > dfiorito@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> Out of curiostiy I decided to check on Fred Glaysher's
status in the
> >> Baha'i Community and his membership could not be confirmed.
> >>
> >> I was under the assumption that he is a member of the US
Baha'i
> >> Community.
> >>
> >> Fred?
> >>
> >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >> Before you buy.
> >>
> >
> >He's a member of an alternative Baha'i community. One of
those
> >"splinter groups". So why are you checking up on
his status?
> >
> >
> >--
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Carol Ann
> >"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo
> >
> >
> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Before you buy.
>
>
From: Incoming Electronic Communication Operations <ieco@bwc.org>
Subject: Your Message Has Been Received...
Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 5:36 AM
Dear Friend,
This is an automated acknowledgement.
Your message regarding:
Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not
Confirmed
has been received at the Baha'i World Centre.From:
TOSBoards1@aol.com[SMTP:TOSBoards1@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 6:57 AM
To: TOSBoards2@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
<<Message: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Lead...>>
[This Message (REGULAR) Has Been Forwarded By The Mail Spinner]
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 7:51 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: TOSBoards1@aol.com; fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: TOS - personal insult - Maneck
This person is consistently insulting me on the
Bahai Forums while the Forum Leader permits it,
though charging me with TOSs for all kinds of
innocuous statements.
Fglaysher@aol.com
Subject: Re: alt.religion.bahai & talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2/25/1999 11:22 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Smaneck">Smaneck</A>
Message-id: <19990225112245.13529.00000211@ng-ch1.aol.com>
Charlotte writes:
>So.... I will ask Mark to NOT add these newsgroups if you will not
agree to
>immediately remove those items placed there without permission and
agree to
>stop the practice of putting them there in the future.
Dear Charlotte,
While your annoyance to Fred doing this is well taken and he is
certainly
violating standard netiquette and perhaps copyright laws in forwarding
other's
posts, I don't think we can oppose the addition of newsgroups because of
the
unconscionable behavior of one of its members.
I think it is sufficient reason to refuse to add Mr. Glaysher's own
website,
however since he has total control of its contents. Besides, it is not
like he
doesn't "provide" us with that website address on a regular
basis.
Hey Fred, do you have long pink ears?
warmest,
Susan Maneck
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 6:58 AM
To: TOSBoards1; HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com;
ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com;
Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com;
Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
RBCF Mark wrote in message
<19990225105858.11959.00000098@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>Fred wrote:
>> Mark Foster and his cohorts
>>are exploiting the lack of
>>familiarity among most AOL
>>personnel to their advantage
>>by attempting to blackball
>>me and other AOL members
>>who refuse to accept their
>>literal interpretations of the
>>BAhai Faith.
>
>How do you know I have a literal view of the Baha'i Faith? If you read
my
>postings when I was on your email list (mirroring alt.religion.bahai),
you
know
>that is not the case.
False. Changing the subject as well. The issue is
your constant alleging of specious TOSs against me
and others on AOL. For anyone with any knowledge or
experience of the Bahai Faith, it's obvious that you're
supporting the Bahai fundamentalists there and attempting
to target and ultimately have AOL suspend the accounts
of anyone who doesn't share your and their views. You
and other intolerant Bahais know you can depend on
the lack of familiarity on the part of AOL personnel with
the Bahai Faith to work to your advantage.
AOL removed Vahid once it understood what was really
taking place. I'm confident when AOL has finished it's
consideration of Foster's false TOSs allegations they
will do likewise.
Fglaysher@aol.com
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of
Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 1999 8:51 AM
To: TOSBoards1; HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com;
ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com;
Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com;
Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Deana Marie Holmes wrote in message <36dc6e99.64691791@enews.newsguy.com>...
>On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 20:32:47 GMT, rlittle33@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>I pointed out what people who know about AOL have known for a long
>time: when a forum gets out of hand, it gets shut down.
This was
>noted in the NYTimes wrt the Irish fora. I also pointed out the long
>experience critics of Scientology had with the AOL system. I
opined
>that if Mr. Foster didn't watch his step, the AOL Baha'i forum could
>go the way of the AOL Scientology forum. That is NOT defamation.
I'd be in favor of the Bahai Forums on AOL being shut down too
if AOL personnel can't make the effort to understand what's
really going on and fundamentalist Bahais can support Mark
Foster resigning and finding a fair and honest person to serve
as Forum Leader.
>
>I'd also like you to note, Mr. Little, that I am not a Baha'i, and
>that I have had quite a bit of experience being harassed by pros, both
>legally and extralegally. If you think that just because you can
>sling the word "defamed" around that I'll go away, you've
got another
>thing coming. I would only note that Scientology thought I'd
stop
>picketing their local org if they picketed my home. They were
wrong.
Mr. Little is one of the worst literal-minded Bahai fanatics
on Usenet today. He's been a constant opponent of free
speech and conscience regarding the creation of talk.religion.bahai
for the past two years.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of
Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod
Keller)
>The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
>$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
>mirele@xmission.com
From: Juan Cole <jricole@my-deja.com>
Subject: Baha'u'llah's Houri of Wonder
Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 11:03 AM
Below find my provisional translation of Baha'u'llah's Hur-i `Ujab,
the
Maid of Wonder or Houri of Wonder, which is from the Baghdad period.
cheers Juan Cole
------------
Baha'u'llah
The Houri of Wonder
The beauty of holiness has risen from behind her veil—
and that is a wondrous thing;
And spirits have fainted from the fire of their attraction,
and that is a wondrous affair.
Then they awoke and soared into the pavilions of sanctity at the
throne of domes,
and that is a wondrous mystery.
Say: the houri of eternity removed the veil from her face--
exalted be the wondrous beauty of newness!
The lights of her visage shone from the earth to the clouds,
and that is a wondrous radiance.
She threw a glance like a shooting star,
and that is a wondrous glance.
By the fire of her countenance she burned up all names and designations,
and that is a wondrous deed.
She cast her gaze upon the people of earth and dust,
and that is a wondrous gaze.
Behold, the temples of existence quivered and then vanished,
and that is a wondrous death.
Then a black strand of hair appeared from her, an adornment for
the soul in the gloom of hindrances,
and that is a wondrous hue.
The fragrance of scents and perfumes wafted from her,
and that is a wondrous musk.
In her right hand she holds red wine and in her left, kebab,
and that is a wondrous grace.
Her palm is dyed crimson with the blood of lovers,
and that is a wondrous thing.
She passed around the wine of life in jugs and cups,
and that is a wondrous fountain;
And sang of the beloved’s name, strumming on lute and rebec,
and that is a wondrous song.
Then hearts melted from fire and blaze,
and that is a wondrous passion.
She bestowed the nourishment of beauty without measure,
and that is a wondrous food.
The sword of allusion struck at necks,
and that is a wondrous blow.
She smiled, and the pearls of her teeth were manifest,
and that is a wondrous gleam.
Then the hearts of those who understand cried out,
and that is a wondrous self-denial.
All those filled with pride and suspicion turned away from her,
and that is nothing but a wondrous opponent.
When she heard, she returned to her palace in grief and regret,
and that is a wondrous sorrow.
She went and returned, may her to and fro be exalted,
and this is a wondrous decree;
And she uttered within her soul a cry that annihilated existence
and then was made to vanish,
and that is a wondrous grief.
She opened her lips for a river of advice and reproof to flow,
and that is a wondrous spring..
She said, "Do not reject me, people of the Book."
And that is a wondrous affair.
"Are you the people of guidance and are you the friends?"
And that is a wondrous falsehood.
She said, "We shall not return to you, my companions."
And that is a wondrous return.
"We shall conceal the mysteries of God that are in his
scriptures."
And this matter is from the All-Glorious, the Giving.
"You shall not find me until the promised one appears on the
Day of Return."
By my life, that is a wondrous abasement.
Source: Baha’u’llah, Ad`iyyih-‘i Hadrat-i Mahbub (Hofheim-Langenhain:
Baha’i Publishing Trust, 1980), pp. 153-158.
--
Juan Cole, History, U of Michigan jrcole@umich.edu
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai.htm
Buy *Modernity & Millennium: Genesis of Baha'i*
http://www.kalimat.com/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.From: "Michel Boucher"
<alsandorz@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: high Baha'i divorce rate
Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 9:19 PM
rlittle95@my-deja.com a écrit dans
<8jdoel$tpk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>This statement seems to hold a number of implications which run
>contrary to what Baha'u'llah Himself says about those who find and
>accept Him.
But you're assuming that every person who is a member of the Baha'i
administrative order (for want of a better term) "accepts"
Baha'u'llah.
After many years of being a member of said BAO, I realized that this
was not the case. Not that I denied his existence, but rather
the
purpose as stipulated in the writings were not understood by me in
those terms. I never denied the matter as set in the writings, but
it never
had any *personal* importance to me.
>Baha'u'llah states that the first duty of an individual
>is to accept the (most recent) Manifestation of God.
There are many "first" duties. My first and most
important duty is
to see to the welfare of my children (yours too, if you have any).
If I forgo
that responsibility in the pursuit of some ethereal concept of deity, I'm
not
doing anyone any good. I'm sure we can come up with some more
"first" duties
that would take precedence over a "command" from the deity.
It also raises the question: if the deity makes a particular
condition
mandatory, it is incumbent upon the deity to make it possible as well for
all
to meet this criterion. I don't buy this "everyone must find
him". It is
patently impossible for everyone since 1844 to have heard about the Bab
and
Baha'u'llah. Does that mean their existence is invalidated, or that
they are
sent to a sort of limbo? If the deity is just (which we must accept
otherwise
we might as well be Greeks), then the value of a life is in its living and
in
the pure love one receives (state of grace), from whatever source, not in
a set
of abstract beliefs that may or may not be subject to erroneous
interpretation
and overweening sentimentalism.
>I think that to
>characterize those relatively few people who in this day have found
>and accepted Him, as being "marginal" is clearly contrary to
what
>Baha'u'llah, 'Abdu'l-Baha' and Shoghi Effendi would say, and did say
>repeatedly about Baha'is.
Well, I have met many and would suggest that Shoghi Effendi did not
meet the
Baha'is that came in the early 70's. I can only think that as the
movement
gains amplitude, the problem of "marginals" as members will
grow, not decrease.
Partly to blame is the willingness to accept members without
appropriate
scrutiny beforehand. If this is to be a job in the name of the
deity, one
should be not only qualified but be deemed to be qualified. Too
often have I
seen membership simply rubber-stamped to increase numbers, and the
putative
member dropped out of sight after one or two feasts. If this has
changed in
the last twenty-five years, then fine...
>Does the Baha'i Faith in America suffer from an inordinately high
>divorce rate? The answer is an emphatic yes, but the underlying
>reasons are very complex, I think, and while Professor Cole has
>intelligently touched on some of them, he has a viewpoint which
>seems colored by his recent experiences. I think he most assuredly
>held different opinions at the time that study was reportedly made.
The problem is likely in American views and ideas on sentimental life.
Becoming
a Baha'i does not cleanse one of socially acquired prejudices. I
encountered
early on Baha'is from the US who thought and acted like Baptists, others
who
were either catholic in their approach, or anti-catholic, depending on
their
upbringing. People come with their baggage. They don't get rid
of that
baggage, they integrate it into their way of seeing things. Baha'is
in
Mississippi can probably agree among themselves because they share the
same
world view to begin with as people from Mississippi. In my time, the
Persian
believers were seen as a unifying factor and relied upon to contribute
heavily
because of their long ties to the Faith and because of their direct access
to
the writings in the original texts.
I saw that at the beginning as diversity, as a possible start to
blending
different parts of human behaviour, and that was what we were told in
firesides
and in the available literature, that all the various parts would form a
whole.
But that turned out not to be true. I was told one night by one who
would know
(and who shall remain nameless) that the melting pot, the true spirit of
a
melting pot, was not to be, according to writings that were not available
in
translation at the time. I can't say whether it is or not because
the
reference was to the books in Arabic or Persian, but I felt that saying
it
would be if it wasn't going to be was a cheap way of suckering people
in,
playing on their willingness to create a rainbow and then letting them in
on
the secret, that the rainbow wasn't the goal, the goal was their
membership.
I began to detach myself from the Faith at that point, not because it
had not
met my criteria, but because a subterfuge had seemed necessary, one
that
*seemed* to be in tune with the needs of the time, unity in diversity,
world
peace...one that promised these things but had no plan to deliver
them.
Instead, it was to be a cultural monolith, not only one world, but one
culture,
one language, one brand of cigarettes (scratch that...). It sounded
too much
like Western Canada :-) Having lived in Spain under a fascist
regime, I was
sensitive to political manipulation, not to mention my anti-assimilationist
background. Let's just say I got a case of the
heebie-jeebies.
Had the point been put to me honestly up front, considering that I was
capable
of making the decision as an informed adult, I might not have been forced
to
withdraw my membership. I might well not have joined, either.
>I also think that God tests our faith, and through these tests our
>weaknesses and strengths are made known to us.
>
>I pray I am not a test of faith for others.
I would hope that anyone who has a test of faith can learn something
from it.
Only in times of difficuilty can you test your mettle. So go ahead,
be a test
of faith for others. If they see it that way, they need the exercise
:-)
---------------
"Eating fries with cheese makes sense, mon eustsi."
Guy
To send private mail, get the zed out.
ICQ: 69205479 (take the five out)From: Bozeman 59 <bozeman59@aol.com>
Subject: Re:Article by Vance Salisbury concerning the bahai faith
Date: Thursday, December 16, 1999 6:41 PM
<< http://www.jps.net/bo55/bbarc.html
In this article, it contains evidence of bahai editing of their books
and
historical backrounds of the babi and bahai faith. >>
I find the information at this site disturbing.
The half truths told over the decades have evolved into full out lies and
distortions. The Baha'is should take action to come clean about the
alterations in their literature or risk looking more and more like a cult.
From: Bozeman 59 <bozeman59@aol.com>
Subject: Re:Article by Vance Salisbury concerning the bahai faith
Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 11:51 AM
<< A Cult huhhhhhhhhh???? Wasn't Christianity
considered a wayward
Judaic cult in it's humble beginings???? It's interesting how
society
first views a "New Religion". I suggest you investigate
what a cult
really is before you throw out such a term.
- Sean >>
I don't care how old your religion is. I don't partictularly
care for
Christianity or Islam either. But their religions are at least old
enough that
their lies can be obscured and turned into myths. The Baha'i
religion is still
young enough to be found out if you lie.
The web site cited by Mahdi is filled with information that makes your
religion
look like a fabricated bunch of lies. Go look at it yourself and
then explain
why your authorities have deliberately changed information to conform to
the
present when the past wasn't convenient.
If the shoe fits wear it! The Baha'i faith looks like a cult.
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 1999 8:51 AM
To: TOSBoards1; HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com;
ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com;
Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com;
Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Deana Marie Holmes wrote in message <36dc6e99.64691791@enews.newsguy.com>...
>On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 20:32:47 GMT, rlittle33@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>I pointed out what people who know about AOL have known for a long
>time: when a forum gets out of hand, it gets shut down.
This was
>noted in the NYTimes wrt the Irish fora. I also pointed out the long
>experience critics of Scientology had with the AOL system. I
opined
>that if Mr. Foster didn't watch his step, the AOL Baha'i forum could
>go the way of the AOL Scientology forum. That is NOT defamation.
I'd be in favor of the Bahai Forums on AOL being shut down too
if AOL personnel can't make the effort to understand what's
really going on and fundamentalist Bahais can support Mark
Foster resigning and finding a fair and honest person to serve
as Forum Leader.
>
>I'd also like you to note, Mr. Little, that I am not a Baha'i, and
>that I have had quite a bit of experience being harassed by pros, both
>legally and extralegally. If you think that just because you can
>sling the word "defamed" around that I'll go away, you've
got another
>thing coming. I would only note that Scientology thought I'd
stop
>picketing their local org if they picketed my home. They were
wrong.
Mr. Little is one of the worst literal-minded Bahai fanatics
on Usenet today. He's been a constant opponent of free
speech and conscience regarding the creation of talk.religion.bahai
for the past two years.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of
Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod
Keller)
>The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
>$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
>mirele@xmission.com
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 26, 1999 7:51 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: TOSBoards1@aol.com; fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: TOS - personal insult - Maneck
This person is consistently insulting me on the
Bahai Forums while the Forum Leader permits it,
though charging me with TOSs for all kinds of
innocuous statements.
Fglaysher@aol.com
Subject: Re: alt.religion.bahai & talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2/25/1999 11:22 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Smaneck">Smaneck</A>
Message-id: <19990225112245.13529.00000211@ng-ch1.aol.com>
Charlotte writes:
>So.... I will ask Mark to NOT add these newsgroups if you will not
agree to
>immediately remove those items placed there without permission and
agree to
>stop the practice of putting them there in the future.
Dear Charlotte,
While your annoyance to Fred doing this is well taken and he is
certainly
violating standard netiquette and perhaps copyright laws in forwarding
other's
posts, I don't think we can oppose the addition of newsgroups because of
the
unconscionable behavior of one of its members.
I think it is sufficient reason to refuse to add Mr. Glaysher's own
website,
however since he has total control of its contents. Besides, it is not
like he
doesn't "provide" us with that website address on a regular
basis.
Hey Fred, do you have long pink ears?
warmest,
Susan Maneck
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 9:59 AM
To: HostMgr@aol.com
Cc: fglaysher@hotmail.com; TOSBoards1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
He's been doing the same thing to me and several
other people who don't share the fundamentalist
mindset. I've spoken with an AOL person regarding the
whole situation. We can appeal the false TOSs by
writing the TOSBoard1@aol.com and hostmgr@aol.com.
I've just forwarded a dozen or more messages from various
people complaining now in For Non-Bahais to the above
addresses and suggest you write them as soon as you can
so that they hear from someone else. You know the literalists
have and will make me out to be a lone kook otherwise. I
Encourage others to do the same. AOL woke up in the past
and got ride of Vahid and Edmund, former "Forum Leaders."
We can depend on them to do the right thing with Mark Foster
too but have to be patient and make the extra effort to inform
them what he's really doing now on AOL.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of
Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subj: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
Date: 2/18/1999 9:26:24 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: nadle@aol.com (Nadle)
To: fglaysher@aol.com
Fred,
I'm getting really ticked off with Mark's censorship.
I was wrong and you, it turns out, have been right.
I wasnt to send a complaint to AOL about Mark. He's pulled
several of my
posts and forwarded them to TOS. TOS, however, have blown him off.
When I repost those deleted posts, he yanks them again, and
forwards them -
yet again - to TOS.
What do I do?
Thank you for the information.
Sincerely,
Larry Rhodes
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Date: 18 Feb 1999 09:26:22 EST
Newsgroups: aol.boards.internal0.top-o-world.aol-department-
level.associations-specia.bahai.for-non-bahais1f6ff4
To: fglaysher@aol.com
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
References: <19990218080242.27436.00000677@ng90.aol.com>
From: nadle@aol.com (Nadle)
Subject: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
Message-ID: <19990218092622.27682.00003216@ng97.aol.com>
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Response to a Fanatic
Newsgroups: news.groups
Message-Id: <857214887.14063@dejanews.com>
Reply-To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service
X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Mar 01 11:14:52 1997 GMT
X-Originating-IP-Addr: 199.179.42.119 ()
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.0Gold (Win95; U)
(FORGIVE THE CAPS, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO DISTINGUISH
MY REMARK FROM OTHERS)
I'VE DECIDED TO POST A REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BECAUSE IT SEEMS
TO ME TO TYPIFY THE GROSS FANATICISM AND SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS OF
SO MANY BAHAIS.... THIS MENTALITY, I BELIEVE, UNDERLIES MUCH
OF THE OPPOSITION TO TALK.RELIGION.BAHAI OVER THE LAST WEEKS.
NO HONEST MEMBER OF THE BAHAI FAITH CAN FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THE
TACTIC OF INTIMIDATION USED BY SOME FANATICS TO SILENCE ANYONE
WHO MIGHT DARE TO EXPRESS AN OPINION OTHER THAN THE
CONVENTIONALLY ACCEPTED ONE. AS A BAHAI, FOR MORE THAN 20
YEARS, THIS TENDENCY CONCERNS ME DEEPLY. IT IS DIFFICULT FOR
ME NOT TO SEE IT AS THE SAME LYING, DISTORTING, AND COERCIVE
METHODS USED BY EXTREMISTS IN ALL CULTS AND PSEUDO-RELIGIONS.
I BELIEVE THE MODERATORS OF SOC.RELIGION.BAHAI HAVE USED
THESE SAME METHODS IN MANIPULATING, THROUGH OTHERS, THE
DISCUSSION ABOUT TALK.RELIGION.BAHAI....
I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S JUSTIFIABLE ON THE BASIS OF THE BAHAI
WRITINGS....
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:55:19 -0500
From: Roger Reini <rreini@wwnet.com>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Response to a Jesuit
I am replying privately because I feel it's most
appropriate. You do
NOT have my permission to post this to Usenet or any other forum.
THE REASON I HAVE IS GIVEN ABOVE.
In my opinion, this note of yours contained some implied
criticism of
the Institutions and could be construed as undermining their
authority.
Specifically, this quote:
>This ignores the fact that many Bahais don't accept review
and believe
>it's censorship....
WHAT RREINI IS INTIMATING HERE, FOR THOSE WHO DON'T PERCEIVE
IT, IS
THAT I'M A MISCREANT, INFIDEL, ETC....
If this was not your intent, then you might want to rephrase
the concept
you're trying to get across so that it's clear you're not trying to
undermine the Institutions. On the other hand, if that was
your intent,
then that's something I prefer not to think about.
HERE IT IS AGAIN.... THE RED FLAG OF ACCUSATION, OF THE
SELF-RIGHTEOUS,
USED TO SILENCE AND TERRORIZE OTHERS, TO MANIPULATE AND CONTROL....
ENDING WITH HIS WRAPPING HIMSELF IN THE MANTLE OF PIETY AND PURITY
OF MOTIVE....
Roger (rreini@wwnet.com)
THIS HAS BEEN THE APPROACH OF OTHERS DURING THIS DISCUSSION
PERIOD.
IS THIS THE KIND OF KINGDOM OF GOD WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE ON EARTH?
THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION WORLDWIDE? IT SEEMS LIKE IT AT
TIMES....
FOR OTHER EXAMPLES OF IT, ONE MIGHT LOOK BACK AT THE POSTING BY
DR. STEVE BURGESS WHO AFTER MAKING HIS SHAMELESS INTIMATIONS
FAILED
TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO REPLY TO ME, WHEN I CONFRONTED HIM, IN
PUBLIC,
WITH HIS CONTEMPTIBLE INSINUATION....
I PRESENT ALL THIS AS EVIDENCE, TO FAIR-MINDED PEOPLE, THAT
AN UNCONTROLLED, UNMANIPULATED, UNCENSORED TALK.RELIGION.BAHAI
IS
WOEFULLY NEEDED TO ENSURE THE FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE
GOD HIMSELF HAS BLESSED HUMANKIND WITH.... THERE ARE TOO MANY
SELF-RIGHTEOUS FANATICS IN THE BAHAI FAITH FOR IT NOT TO EXIST....
FREDERICK GLAYSHER
ROCHESTER HILLS, MICHIGAN USA
Critics chafe at Baha'i conservatismNot spell-checked
[Note: A sidebar introduction, plus corrections to the article
submitted by
two Baha'is, and finally a Baha'i report on the article, including
a list of
the newspapers which ran it, all follow. Some Baha'is interpreted
these
articles as excessively critical; see for example the NSA response
at "Attacks
on the Faith". -J.W.]
Eds: RNS Online, http://www.nj.com/RNS/, printed this with color
photos of Cole,
Henderson and the Baha'i Worship Center in Wilmette, Ill, accompanying
this
story.
NEWS FEATURE: "Critics chafe at Baha'i conservatism"
By IRA RIFKIN
c.1997 Religion News Service
UNDATED - The first 19 days of March are a special time for Baha'is,
members of
a worldwide religion with a liberal reputation based on its vision of
the
underlying unity of all faiths, the oneness of humanity and the harmony
of
science and religion.
The Baha'i faith grew out of Islam, and like the Muslim month of Ramadan,
Baha
is set aside 19 days - the month of Ala according to the Baha'i calendar -
as a
period of dawn-to-sunset fasting and spiritual reflection. The month ends
with
the Feast of Nawruz, the Baha'i new year. It's a festive time of
community
gatherings featuring prayers, spiritual readings, socializing and lots of
food.
For ex-Baha'i Juan Cole, though, this year's feast will be anything but
festive.
Cole, a professor of Middle East history at the University of Michigan, is
among
the nation's leading experts on the faith. Until last May, when he
formally
resigned from the movement, he had been a Baha'i for 25 years. Now,
however, he
counts himself among a small but influential group of past and present
liberal
Baha'is angry over what they say is the hijacking of the faith by a cadre
of
conservative leaders more interested in preserving their authority than
the
Baha'i principle of "independent investigation of reality. "
That principle is among the core tenets of the Baha'i faith first
articulated by
its founder, the l9th-century Persian prophet known as Baha'u'llah (the
Glory of
God) and who is revered by the faithful as an incarnation of God akin to
Jesus.
According to the critics, the National Spiritual Assembly (NSA), which
oversees
the American Baha'i movement, is dominated by a tight-knit group of
authoritarian officials who keep the lid on free expression by
threatening
dissidents with excommunication and by manipulating the process by which.
NSA
members are elected.
In the Baha' i faith, excommunication call include total shunning by
family
members and friends.
Spreading their message via the Internet, the dissidents - many of whom,
like
Cole, once were members of the faith's intellectual elite - say the
nine-member
NSA also hides the truth about the faith's shrinking American following.
"Baha'is are not open - repeat, not open - about how controlling
this
organization is, " said Cole. ``Virtually no one who comes into this
faith
realizes that by becoming a Baha'i you are making your individual
conscience
hostage to the dictates of the leadership.
"The Baha' is started out Unitarian and ended up Calvinist. "
For their part, American Baha'i leaders, headquartered in the Chicago
suburb of
Wilmette, I11., dismiss the critics as an inconsequential group of
disgruntled
elitists who - blinded by their attraction to the faith's more liberal
aspects -
overlooked its deeply conservative side.
This includes an emphasis on " administrative order" as a prime
religious goal.
Baha'u'llah taught that religions fail in large part because, of the
disunity
that tears them apart following their initial burst of spiritual energy.
As a result, tight controls are placed on all public statements made by
Baha'is
-- including the works of scholars, who are required to submit their
writings
for pre-publication review.
"The Baha'i community as a whole does not encourage antagonistic
confrontation,
" said Firuz Kazemzadeh, an NSA-member and its secretary for external
affairs.
"We always seek consensus. But if there is no unanimity then the
majority must
prevail.
Not all Baha'i scholars find fault with this.
"I personally don't buy 'the totalitarian argument, " said
Canadian Baha'i B.
Todd Lawson, an assistant professor of Islamic studies at Montreal's
McGill
University.
"The Baha'i faith posits a non-confrontation version of problem
solving. My view
is if you opt out of that mode, that's your prerogative. But there are
others
who take a longer view of things. ... Baha'i ideals are extremely
demanding. "
Michael McMullen, an assistant professor of Sociology at the University
of
Houston at Clear Lake, said prior review "makes sense" because
much of the
writings of Baha'u'llah and his successors remain untranslated from
their
original Persian and Arabic, and are therefore inaccessible to the
majority of
American Baha'is.
"My experience has been that what is corrected are factual errors
not
interpretation, " said McMullen, who is also a local Baha'i leader in
League
City, Texas.
The dissidents also claim the Baha'i prohibition against public
campaigning or
nominating candidates for spots on the nine-member NSA serves to keep it
a
closed body controlled by the American Baha'i establishment.
Baha'i leaders say they are only following an orthodoxy established
by
Baha'u'llah and his successors - his son Abdu'l-Baha and his
great-grandson,
Shoghi Effendi, who died in 1957.
"It is extremely deprecated if anyone even talks about how the voted
" said
Kazemzadeh. "Voting is supposed to be a very spiritual act."
Assembly members are elected annually by a fixed number of 171 delegates
who
represent local Baha'i assemblies across the continental United States.
Robert C. Henderson, a former Atlanta businessman who is the NSA's
secretary-general, making him the highest ranking American Baha'i (the
faith has
no ordained clergy), said there have been 12 changes in the NSA' s
membership
over the past 15 years.
"That's not indicative of a closed group ," he said.
However, Cole said each change resulted from retirement, death or a
member
moving out of the country. No incumbent who has sought re-election has
been
defeated since 1961, he said.
Cole also noted that family and other close associations are common
among
American Baha'i leaders. Six of the nine current NSA members have family
or
professional connections.
For example, Henderson's mother, Wilma Ellis, is married to Kazemzadeh.
Ellis
herself is a former NSA member who has held d a variety of prominent
Baha'i' i
positions. Currently she is a member of the Continental Board of
Counselors of
the Americas, which provides advice and other services to elected Baha'i
bodies
throughout the hemisphere.
Two other current NSA members are husband and wife James arid Dorothy
Nelson. He
is a former presiding judge of the Los Angeles Municipal Court. She is a
judge
of California's Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. '
Two other members are Juana Conrad, a retired administrator for the Los
Angeles
Municipal Courts, and William Davis, former administrative executive of
the
Ninth Circuit Court.
Yet another current assembly member is South Dakotan Patricia Locke, the
first
American-Indian woman to serve on the NSA. She replaced her son Kevin:
Locke.
McMullen, the University of Houston sociologist, acknowledged that
the
prohibition against nominations and campaigning has made it hard for
those
outside the Baha'i establishment to win election to the NSA.
But on the local level, he added, there is a much higher leadership
turnover.
Moreover, on this level of authority, he said, issues, even controversial
ones,
are freely debated without fear of official disapproval.
Henderson also said that "Baha'is are specifically asked to air
their
grievances" at local and national conventions. "There are
specific channels for
such expression, but it must remain within these established
channels."
"The Baha'i faith is outwardly liberal but inwardly conservative,
" he
continued. " It's a matter of scripture."
Baha'is claim a worldwide membership of more than 5 million people living
in
more than 200 nations and territories. About 2.5 million Baha'is live in
India.
In Iran - where the faith first emerged in the 1840s when Baha'u'llah
proclaimed
himself to be the divine manifestation for the modern era there are
about
300,000 Baha'is. Considered heretics by the Muslim authorities, the live
as a
persecuted minority.
The heresy charge stems from Baha'u'llah's claim to prophet status some
l,200
years after Muhammad, the founder of Islam, proclaimed himself God's
final
prophet.
In the United States, Baha'is claim some l30,000 members - a third of whom
are
African-Americans. About 2l,000 live in California, with the largest
concentration - more than 6,000 - in greater Los Angeles.
Baha'is are also relatively strong in South Carolina, Texas, Florida,
Georgia,
North Carolina, Illinois, Arizona and Washington state.
However, Baha'i critics say the religion's membership numbers are
wildly
inflated. Citing friendly but unnamed sources at Baha'i headquarters
1n
Wilmette, the dissidents say no more than 30,000 names represent active
Baha'is
with verifiable addresses.
"Wilmette has no idea who most of these so-called 130,000 Baha'is
are,"said
Steven Scholl, a Baha'i for 27 years until he withdrew his membership
last
October.
"The large number of inactive members on the roles speaks to the
number of
people who have simply walked away from the faith out of their upset with
the
leadership, " said Scholl, a publisher of spiritual books based in
Ashland Ore.
'
A 1993 book on Americans' religious affiliations, " One Nation Under
God" by
demographers Barry Kosmin and Seymour Lachman, estimated the number of
adult
Baha'is in the United States at about 28,000.
"Every new religious movement that is in a missionary phase tends
to
overestimate its members," Kosmin, currently at the Institute for
Jewish Policy
Research in London, said in an interview. "They count people coming
in, but
never count those who leave."
Kazemzadeh, the Baha'i official, insisted that the 130,000 figure is
"essentially accurate." But he also said that "if active
means contributing
funds and serving locally, it's probably about half the names on the
list."
Sizable Baha'i communities in the South are traceable to the influx of
mostly
rural African-Americans who joined the faith in the 1960s and `70s, drawn
by its
strong rejection of racial prejudice. Jazz musician Dizzy Gillespie is
probably
the best-known African-American Baha'i.
During those same years, relatively large numbers of white liberals,
attracted
by the faith's emphasis on a society free of social injustice, also
joined. It
is mostly members of this group - many of them scholars of Baha'i texts,
the
Middle East and its languages - that today lead the dissident movement.
Linda Walbridge, an anthropologist at the University of Indiana
specializing in
the growth of Islam in America, became a Baha'i in l966 when she was
a
19-year-old VISTA volunteer on the Navajo Reservation. Despite her anger
at the
hierarchy, she remains a Baha'i.
Raised Roman Catholic, Walbridge said she was attracted to the Baha'i
faith by
its promise of a universalist vision. "It was far more open than
anything I had
experienced. "
Walbridge's public dissent has prompted Baha'i officials to threaten to
label
her a "covenant breaker" - a form of excommunication that would
require her
Baha'i husband to divorce her or risk his own excommunication.
"It was supposed to be the most liberal, broad-based religion on the
face of the
earth, " said Walbridge. " Instead, it turned out to be a
straight jacket."
For liberal academics like Walbridge, the lack of free expression is a
prime
bone of contention. However, they also take issue with the Baha'i claim
of
inclusiveness when only men can serve on the Universal House of Justice
the
faith's international authority based in Haifa, Israel, near
Baha'u'llah's,
burial place. Established in l963 in accordance with Baha'u'llah's
dictates, the
Universal House of Justice is considered an infallible body by Baha'is.
The critics also take issue with the harsh attitude taken by Baha'i
leadership
toward sexually active gay and lesbian members, who are subject to
official
sanction under the faith's general prohibition against all forms of
extra-marital sex.
"I understand that this conforms to understanding of Baha'i orthodoxy
that the
leadership shares, but how is this inclusive? " said Walbridge.
" For heaven's
sake, let's at least discuss it. Things have changed since the l9th
century."
To members of the Baha'i establishment, Walbridge's challenge to some of
the
faith's basic tenets are indicative of the critics' misreading of the
movement's
conservative side.
"These so-called dissident Baha'is like to be among Baha'is because
they were
liberal and we appear liberal,'' said Kazemzadeh. "But they did not y
believe in
God as Baha'is define it. That raises the question of hypocrisy.
"This is a religious community united by a set of beliefs," he
said. " So if a
person says he does not believe in these beliefs, why is he a member of
the
community?"
Sidebar: Thumbnail guide to the beliefs of the Baha'is
by Ira Rifkin
c. 1997 Religion News Service
UNDATED -- A cornerstone of Baha'i beliefs is the principle of
progressive
relvelation, which holds that God repeatedly sends divine messengers to
Earth
and that the latest in a line running from Abraham to Jesus and Muhammad
was the
19th-century Persian prophet known as Baha'u'llah. Missionary-minded
and
pacifist-oriented, the Baha'i faith teaches the unity of mankind and
the
commonality of all religions. It also emphasizes the harmony of science
and
religion, rejection of all prejudice, independent investigation of
truth,
equality of the sexes and compulsory education. "The Baha'i Faith's
progressive
approach to human society originates with Baha'u'llah's emphasis on
unity," said
a 1992 official profile of the movement. "Indeed, if one were to
characterize
His teachings in a single word, that word would be unity."
Baha'is have no ordained clergy and little ritual, and are led by
elected
officials. Despite the declaration of sexual equality, the faith's
international
authority, the Universal House of Justice based in Haifa, Israel, is
doctrinally
an all-male body. Baha'is consider the House of Justice to be infallible.
National Spiritual Assemblies direct Baha'i affairs in individual
countries.
U.S. Baha'i headquarters are in the Chicago suburb of Wilmette, Ill., site
of
one of seven Baha'i Houses of Worship scattered around the globe.
Baha'is believe the world is destined to have one government, which will
be led
by Baha'is and will be based on the faith's administrative framework. The
Baha'i
faith grew out of Shiite Islam, and like Muslims, Baha'is are not supposed
to
consume alcohol and are to adhere to a strict moral code. They also
believe in
the sharing of wealth and the adoption of a universal language.
Considered heretics by Muslims, Baha'is have long been persecuted by
Islamic
leaders, particularly in Iran. Baha'u'llah spent much of his life in
prison or
under house arrest. He died while under house arrest near Acre, just north
of
Haifa, which was then part of the Ottoman Empire. Since 1980, more than
200
Iranian Baha'is have been executed and thousands have been imprisoned,
according
to reports, leading to frequent condemnations of Teheran by the U.S.
State
Department. Because of this persecution, the recently organized,
20-member
Secretary of State's Advisory Committee on Religious Freedom Abroad has a
Baha'i
member.
-END RIFKIN AP - NY-02-26-97 1528 EST
Note: Here follow two corrections sent to a Baha'i academics listserv in
March,
1997:
On Thursday, March 6, a Baha'i wrote:
"Mr. Henderson was misquoted. Actually, he said, "The Baha'i
Faith is SOCIALLY
liberal and MORALLY conservative." Another factual error is that
Linda Walbridge
remains a part of the American Baha'i community; as many of us may
remember with
sadness, she withdrew from the Baha'i Faith almost a year ago."
Later, she added:
"I happened to be at the National Center last Friday, and Bob
Henderson pointed
out to some Baha'is that he was misquoted. Actually, it is something
that
happens all the time in journalism (in the rush of scribbling down notes
and
all). My guess is that Linda Walbridge was also misunderstood, as she
would have
no reason to believe that the institutions consider her to be a part of
the
American Baha'i community."
The US Baha'i Office of Public Information recently mailed their PI NEWS,
April
1997, a bi-monthly publication distributed to Baha'i Public Information
Reps.
Here is the lead article regarding the RNS article: "News on
Opposition National
News Wire Article Criticizes the NSA"
"On February 27, 1997, the Religion News Service carried a news
article by Ira
Rifkin under the title "Critics Chafe at Baha'i Conservatism."
The article
presented the views of a small group of of disaffected former Baha'is who
left
the Faith because they rejected certain fundamental Baha'i teachings.
The
individuals attacked Baha'i institutions and their members attributing to
them
dictatorial attitudes, accusing them of controlling elections and claiming
that
Baha'i institutions were dominated by a tight-knit group of
authoritarian
officials. The article was published in the following US papers:
1) Muscatine, Iowa Journal
2) Akron, Ohio Beacon Journal
3) Kansas City, Missouri Star
4) North Carolina Times News
5) Charlotte, North Carolina Observer
6) Springfield, Massachusetts Republican
7) Mobile, Alabama Register
"Local communities responded to the article's publication in a
variety if ways.
For example, the Baha'is of Springfield, MA, formed a delegation which
visited
the executive editor of the Springfield, Massachusetts paper. The
delegation
explained to the editor the Baha'is eighty-year history in the area and
noted
its community service. During the hour long meeting, the executive
editor's tone
was apologetic, He stated that he had not read the article before it was
placed.
Additionally, he promised to feature a positive article on the Faith in
the near
future. Although published in only seven newspapers, the article is an
excellent
opportunity to identify issues and teachings to which American media might
give
a negative interpretation: free speech, the Baha'i electoral process
and
Covenant breaking to name a few. The Office of Public Information,
in
consultation with the Research Office of the Baha'i National Center,
is
developing educational materials for PI Reps which will address these
issues.
Back to Newspaper and magazine
articles
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sources ][ Resources and etc.
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Library
From: "K. Paul Johnson" <pauljo@cstone.net>
Subject: Re: >>bahai - Harassment Continues
Date: Monday, March 20, 2000 11:26 AM
Mark Elderkin wrote:
>> Pat and all others concerned,
>> I probably misstepped the guidelines by
posting Freddys Facts
........
More to the point, what ethical principles were violated?
>> but I think it will give Fred a chance to realize that he is
not-so
>> anonomous anymore and might wish to quit cross-posting.
So you did this to terrorize him into silence, right?
I understand that
>> there are a lot of crazys out there that might not like the
things he
>> regularly posts and now he can't hide behind his mothers dress.
So you actually envision that he might end up attacked, even murdered,
possibly by a fanatical Baha'i, as a result of your heroic action?
I have
>> posted my own phone number before and will always make myself
available
>for
>> anyones input.
That's *your* choice. Don't make someone else's choice for him.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
From: Mark Elderkin <elderkin@nor.com.au>
Subject: Re: Inter-Parliamentary Union - Universal Declaration on
Democracy
Date: Monday, January 31, 2000 4:52 PM
> "The state of democracy presupposes freedom of opinion and
> expression; this right implies freedom to hold opinions without
> interference and to seek, receive and impart information and
> ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."
Hold your opinion without interference. Why do you interfere, here,
with
your spam-like postings? It is totally unacceptable by this mediums
predefinitions. When I wrote to you, I was totally within my rights to do
just that. Certainly it could not have been too offensive or you would not
have posted it here for all to read. Like all things in this natural
world,
there will always be a reaction to your action.
From: <patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Inter-Parliamentary Union - Universal Declaration on
Democracy
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 7:03 AM
A Bahai continues to harass me despite my polite
requests that he cease emailing me his insults and
threats. I hold the uhj directly responsible for the actions
of this and other Bahai fanatics. The uhj routinely inspires
this type of fundamentalism in my fellow Bahais and then
uses them to suppress and control others.
I shall be sending a copy of this message to the uhj along
with the individual's name and email address.
As a member of the Bahai faith since 1976, I have every
right to express my conscience and beliefs as both Baha'u'llah
and Abdu'l-Baha guaranteed their followers....
--
Patrick Henry.... "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Bahá'í World Centre <secretariat@bwc.org>
To: <EarthrisePress@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 11:09 AM
Subject: RE: Bahai>>> Continuing Harassment
Dear Friend,
This is an automated acknowledgement.
Your message has been received at the Bahá'í World Centre.
Electronic Communications Operation,
Bahá'í World Centre
-----
When I asked him to desist, he spammed my account with
a dozen copies of this message:
>I will post you and I will stand behind everything I
wrote.............
One of his earlier messages was:
> You have truly mastered the high-tech form of
rhetorical masturbation.
>You continue to post the things which seem to excite you the most to
people
>who don't really care what you are posting. It is a shame that you
feel
that
>this has become such a deep seated motivation for so much of your
time. I
>have heard all the drivel you are posting, before, and it has always
come
>from individuals who have had their hand slapped for one reason or
another.
>Get over it. The Baha'i Faith is divine and nothing you can say(mostly
>imagination) can ever effect it in the least. You will never have the
>opportunity to understand the significance of the UHJ or its members
in
your
>lifetime. Jealousy takes all forms. Why not stick to an area of your
>expertise and get out of this one? No one here cares anymore about you
or
>your fantasies.
Quotation from the Inter-Parliamentary Union - Universal Declaration
on Democracy:
Mark Elderkin <elderkin@nor.com.au> wrote in message
news:eunl4.36$si5.3374@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
>
>
> > "The state of democracy presupposes freedom of opinion and
> > expression; this right implies freedom to hold opinions without
> > interference and to seek, receive and impart information and
> > ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."
>
> Hold your opinion without interference. Why do you interfere, here,
with
> your spam-like postings? It is totally unacceptable by this mediums
> predefinitions. When I wrote to you, I was totally within my rights
to do
> just that. Certainly it could not have been too offensive or you
would not
> have posted it here for all to read. Like all things in this natural
world,
> there will always be a reaction to your action.
>
>
From: <dfiorito@my-deja.com>
Subject: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed
Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 2:33 PM
Out of curiostiy I decided to check on Fred Glaysher's status in the
Baha'i Community and his membership could not be confirmed.
I was under the assumption that he is a member of the US Baha'i
Community.
Fred?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.From: <dfiorito@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed
Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 3:15 PM
In article <s5203qj0536@corp.supernews.com>,
"Patrick Henry" <patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Given the uhj's oppressive tactics and violation of the human rights
of
> Linda and John Walbridge, Stephen Scholl, other editors of the
> Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in
> protest, David Langness, Juan Cole, Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini,
> former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff who resigned,
> and so on, and so on, and so on.... All the victims documented on my
> website.... I hesitate to put the uhj above any reprehensible act....
> Including conspiracy to murder Dr. Daniel Jordan.
<SNIP>
It is not a human right to belong to a private organization. It
is a
human right to choose your personal faith and express it as you would
like to. But when you are a voluntary member of a religious body and
you break the laws of that body you have no right to remain a member,
and that religious group has every right to remove your membership.
There is no human right to demand change within a private organization
and have that change happen. There are means and procedures to bring
about change in those areas that change is possible. In the Baha'i
Faith unity of the community is paramount but subservient to obeying
all of the laws of God and the provisions of the Covenant and the chain
of authority that has been generated by it. If you choose not to
follow those laws and provisions and that authority you may leave - no
one is making you stay. And if you stay and do not use proper
channels
and methods for creating change you have no right to immunity from
administative sanction.
I have no right as a human being to choose to join the Jesuit Order
and
preach that Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ and still remain a
member. I have no right to be a Muslim and claim that Baha'u'llah is
a
Messenger of God and still remain a member. I have no right to join
an
Ultra Orthodox Jewish community and expect to break the Sabbath. All
of those organizations have the absolute right to remove me from their
group.
If any Baha'i want to create change in a private organization you may
do so through the proper cahannels. But don't expect it to happen if
the administration of that organization does not accept it and they can
point to the place in their charter that contradicts your view.
For Baha'is (by that I mean those registered Baha'is who value unity
and obedience to the Will of God over their personal desires) there are
methods in place to propose change in our community. We have every
right to petition the administration at all levels. We have the
right
to voice our opinion freely. If the administration decision goes
against our wishes then we are left with the Divine call to obey them.
If we persist and go outside the boundaries of propriety and disturb
the unity of the Faith we must expect to suffer the consequences of
those actions.
Change in a large organization is slow. Patience is the
key. But we
have no human right to remain a member when we end up breaking the laws
of the Faith. And if someone leaves voluntarily how is it even
possible that their rights have been violated?
Peace,
Dave
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.From: <dfiorito@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed
Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 12:33 PM
(sorry if this is a repeat post MyDeja is acting funny)
I never assume that anyone is a Covenant Breaker, and I do not look up
the membership of everyone on the list.
Fred made a claim that he is a registered member of the Baha'i
community. To lend this claim creedence he scanned his membership
card
and posted it on his website.
He is a controversial figure and makes many claims. I sought to
verify
the truth of his claim to membership in the US Baha'i Community.
That
membership could not be confirmed.
This is not a value judgement - just a fact. My opinion of Fred
will
remain private. I make no accusations or threats. I merely
researched
one of his claims and it turns out to be false.
Peace,
Dave
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.From: David Fiorito and Jennifer Spotila
<fiospots@pond.com>
Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed
Date: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 8:21 PM
Sorry it took so long to reply. All one needs is the persons
name and
Baha'i id# which Fred has made a part of the public record. Contact
Membership services at National and they reply. If you are a Baha'i
that
is.
Peace,
Dave Fiorito
starjo8853@my-deja.com wrote in message
<83081o$blc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>David - Would you please explain how a person verifies, or as you put
>it "confirms" that another person is a US Baha'i?
Should the National
>really be giving out that information since it could cost some people
>their lives........Are you in a special position that this information
>would be given to you such as Board Member? Star*
>
>
>In article <82rdgo$735$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> dfiorito@my-deja.com wrote:
>> (sorry if this is a repeat post MyDeja is acting funny)
>>
>> I never assume that anyone is a Covenant Breaker, and I do not
look up
>> the membership of everyone on the list.
>>
>> Fred made a claim that he is a registered member of the Baha'i
>> community. To lend this claim creedence he scanned his
membership
>card
>> and posted it on his website.
>>
>> He is a controversial figure and makes many claims. I
sought to
>verify
>> the truth of his claim to membership in the US Baha'i
Community. That
>> membership could not be confirmed.
>>
>> This is not a value judgement - just a fact. My opinion of
Fred will
>> remain private. I make no accusations or threats. I
merely
>researched
>> one of his claims and it turns out to be false.
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Before you buy.
>>
>
>--
>"Look within and you will find Me standing there Mighty,
Powerful, and
>Selfsubsisting".......Baha'u'llah, Arabic HW #13
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
From: David Fiorito and Jennifer Spotila <fiospots@pond.com>
Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed
Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 2:01 PM
The only information you can get from National about an individual is
- 1)
Are they a member of the Faith in good standing. 2) Does national
have a
good mailing address for them (in other words have they had any returned
mail recently). The will not give details of membership or any
personal
data. The will not give out addresses or phone numbers. When I
inquired
they said they could not confirm that Fred was a member of the Baha'i
Community. That is all.
The reason you can get these two pieces of data is so when someone
comes to
town and says "I am a Baha'i" you can verify that fact with
national before
that person can join Feast, vote, or serve on an LSA.
Peace,
Dave
From: David Fiorito and Jennifer Spotila <fiospots@pond.com>
Subject: Re: "removed from the membership rolls"
(Re: REVISED: --bahai-- Messages to uhj regarding their Technique)
Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999 7:37 PM
Fred,
I am not questioning your conscience. You claim to be a member
of the US
Baha'i Community. You posted your membership card on your site as
proof.
I decided to verify your claim. That claim is false. It is
deceitful to
claim to be a member of the Baha'i Community knowing full well that you
are
not. I am not questioning your beliefs by doing this. I am
only showing
all of those in the many irrelevant news groups that you bother that your
are not what you say you are.
No one has control over your thoughts. God gave us all free
will. But the
lie you have told is now uncovered. Its time to face the fact.
The people
you say are your fellow Baha'is are not. You have been removed from
the
community. You are on the outside looking in.
You can say whatever you want when it comes to beliefs or
philosophy. Those
points are debatable. But when you claim membership in an
organization to
which you do not belong you become a liar.
I respect those on this list who have left the Baha'i Faith and _tell_
everyone the truth about their status. Nima, Carol, Paul Johnson,
Michael
McKenny, and the others don't hide the fact that they have left the Faith
and their points are made stronger because of it. I don't hear Juan
Cole
keeping his status a secret.
You are trying to deceive us all, and because I caught you red handed
you
cry foul. Too bad. So keep posting about philosophy and
beliefs. Those
posts are welcome. They add to the dialog. They add another
point of view.
But don't cry when you lie about a fact and someone uncovers it for the
world to see.
I do not hate you or feel spite for you. As I have said before -
there are
those on this list like the ones I mentioned above who I actually admire.
They have convictions and beliefs that run deep. They are well
spoken and
do not rely on SPAM and lies to get their point across.
The only thing I did was shed light on a lie. The rest is up to
you.
Oh by the way - if you really do believe that you are a member of the
Baha'i
Community then I suggest you contact your nearest Baha'i friend, have them
contact National with your ID# and name and they will confirm what I have
already posted. Any registered Baha'i can check for you.
Peace,
Dave
Patrick Henry wrote in message ...
>Ha, ha, ha, ha....
>
>My how desperate Bahai fundamentalists are....
>
>In lieu of any official communication directly from the uhj,
>describing what it imagines my offense might be and detailing
>the passages in the Writings that permits such spiritual terrorism,
>I am certainly not about to believe the claims and forgeries
>of rabidly hateful and spiteful fellow Bahais like this person....
>
>My soul and conscience are not under the control of the
>pathetically dishonest and oppressive uhj, nor are the souls
>of any of its other victims....
>
>I shall "cc" this message to the uhj so that they hear from
>me directly on the matter.
>
>--
>Patrick Henry.... "Give me liberty or give me death!"
>The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
>
>
>
><dfiorito@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:83dpqu$vnb$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> Fred is not a member of the Baha'i Community. He was
removed from the
>> roles in February of 1999. The Baha'i ID that he displays
on his
>> website is not valid.
>>
>> His claim of membership in the Baha'i Community is false.
>>
>> This was confirmed in a reply to my inquiry to the national
center's
>> membership services.
>>
>> This was their reply:
>>
>> "Subject: Status of Fredrick Glaysher
>>
>>
>> To: Mr. David Fiorito
>>
>> Dear Baha'i Friend,
>>
>> In response to your inquiry about the status of Mr. Fredrick
Glaysher,
>> the records of the Baha'i National Center reflect that Mr.
Glaysher's
>> name was removed from the membership rolls in February 1999, and
he is
>> not considered to be a member of the Baha'i Faith.
>>
>> With loving Baha'i greetings,
>>
>> ****** * *********
>> For the Office of the Secretary
<SNIP a whole bunch of stuff>
From: <dfiorito@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: REVISED: --bahai-- Messages to uhj regarding their Technique
Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 11:53 AM
Fred is not a member of the Baha'i Community. He was removed
from the
roles in February of 1999. The Baha'i ID that he displays on his
website is not valid.
His claim of membership in the Baha'i Community is false.
This was confirmed in a reply to my inquiry to the national center's
membership services.
This was their reply:
"Subject: Status of Fredrick Glaysher
To: Mr. David Fiorito
Dear Baha'i Friend,
In response to your inquiry about the status of Mr. Fredrick Glaysher,
the records of the Baha'i National Center reflect that Mr. Glaysher's
name was removed from the membership rolls in February 1999, and he is
not considered to be a member of the Baha'i Faith.
With loving Baha'i greetings,
****** * *********
For the Office of the Secretary
In article <s5kb85eiqrs71@corp.supernews.com>,
"Patrick Henry" <patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> This file contains three messages: "to uhj 12-10-99,"
"to uhj 7-24-
1998,"
> and "The Baha'i Technique":
>
> From: Patrick Henry <patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com>
> Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed
> Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:33 AM
>
> Given the uhj's oppressive tactics and violation of the human rights
of
> Linda and John Walbridge, Stephen Scholl, other editors of the
> Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in
> protest, David Langness, Juan Cole, Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini,
> former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff who resigned,
> and so on, and so on, and so on.... All the victims documented on my
> website.... I hesitate to put the uhj above any reprehensible act....
> Including conspiracy to murder Dr. Daniel Jordan.
>
> I have been a member of the Bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card
> may be found on my website. I have never been contacted by the uhj
> or any of its underlings to the contrary.
>
> Anything I have ever said is a matter of the sanctity of my
individual
> God-given conscience that both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha claimed
> would never be violated in their religion.
>
> I shall "cc" this message to the uhj so that they hear from
me
directly
> on the matter.
>
> I would consider it an honor to be one of its official victims;
indeed,
> the highest spiritual achievement of my Bahai life, defending
Baha'u'llah's
> Teachings from the fanaticism that has overwhelmed and hamstrung his
> Revelation.
>
> --
> Frederick Glaysher.... "Give me liberty or give me death!"
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> (Confirmation of receipt by the uhj of the message above.)
> From: Incoming Electronic Communication Operations
<ieco@bwc.org>
> Subject: Your Message Has Been Received...
> Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 5:36 AM
>
> Dear Friend,
>
> This is an automated acknowledgement.
>
> Your message regarding:
>
> Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not
Confirmed
>
> has been received at the Baha'i World Centre.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: Patrick Henry patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com
> To: UHJ <secretariat@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor
<letters@nytimes.com>;
> bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai-faith@makelist.com>
> Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
> Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
> July 24,1998
>
> Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
>
> As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
> another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
> made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
> of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
> The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
> lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that
President
> Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in
Iran
> would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the
international
> community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
> justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
>
> The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent
exploitation
> of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
> always courting the President and other members of the government,
> has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
> of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
> and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such
incidents
as
> I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
> available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
> Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
> Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
> Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many
individuals,
> Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
> the Bahai community and administration.
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
>
> To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
> than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
> Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
> twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of
an
> unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
> talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
> these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
> non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom
> of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
>
> Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
> approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
> BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
> Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
> discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
> many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
> that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
> Bahai-Discuss Archives.
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
>
> Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA
has
> approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
> the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban
for
> more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
> talk.religion.bahai.
>
> The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
> religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
> but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
> administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
>
> I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
> what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the
"rules,"
if
> you will, of Bahai censorship?
>
> --
> Patrick Henry.... "Give me liberty or give me death!"
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> THE Baha'i Technique:
>
> During the last several years or more a number of observers have
noted
> the common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues or
> discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
>
> May 12, 1992:
> "The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
> the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
> have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22].
The
usual
> stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
> in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
> criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
> honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
> life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
> unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
> which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
> person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
> control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
> pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
> Truth."
>
> Ron House, November 14, 1997:
> "I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
> there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
> others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
> much he says something intemperate, then point out
> how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
> nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
> technique works, so I've been making a conscious
> effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
> dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
> invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
> can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
> this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
> At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
> Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
> they go for the jugular. Very sad."
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
>
> June 1998:
> "Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
> many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
> an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
> the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
> ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
> messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
> through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
> on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every
action
> of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
> talk.religion.bahai."
> "More than twenty different people on my web site have posted
messages
> explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
> NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
> them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb
interest poll with
> censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
> suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
> believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
> community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
> support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
> YES."
>
> Fran Baker, May 1998:
> "Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
> technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
> effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
> sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
> technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
> to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
> up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be
very hard
> to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
> relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
> acts this way. Very scary."
>
> Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
> "Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my
> professional reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The
very
> technique of the more glaze-eyed among these people is to
> unbearably bully a Baha'i whom they don't like, use unjustified
> threats of declaring him or her a CB to silence the individual, and
> if the person will not be silenced, then to depend upon the
gullibility
> of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any victim's story because,
of
> course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible and divinely guided
and
> could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect racket."
> "Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been
> enormously successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility
> with the remaining Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy
> to continue to make a case, either to the Baha'is or the outside
> world, for the incredible abuses that go on inside this organization
> ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
>
> K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
> "If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
> were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
> their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
> would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
> affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
> preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
> dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
> Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
> "got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have
some
> awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
> character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
>
> Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
> "In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
> is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out
as
> "negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This
selfish
> attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join
> them. When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the
> group. But as soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's
> mind, they're cordoned off by the group and reminded of their
> "spiritual" obligations in the name of Baha'u'llah or the
"Covenant."
> If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to prolonged criticism, the
> convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What we have here is a
> broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
> of its members in the first place."
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
>
> Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
> "Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
> by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
> dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
> their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them
too.
> Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
> following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
> after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
> Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
> why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
> some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
> a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
> however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
> Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
> dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
>
> Juan Cole wrote, February 23, 1999:
> "There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is
only like to
> hear the sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they
> will admit to being "Baha'i" at all)."
>
> "Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact
only
> hear their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices
that
> differ from theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices
come from
> enrolled Baha'is or when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith."
>
> "The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to
summon
them
> to a heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do
not
> fall silent."
>
> "With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their
speech
about
> the faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker.
You
will
> note that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-
term
> heresy, of "claiming authority," of out and out lying
(though that was
> retracted, twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose
> with the facts,'and even of being 'delusional.' I have been
accused
of
> all these falsehoods by *Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have
been
> backbitten by them."
>
> "This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue
can do,
> all the talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with
> honey, for a sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing
> Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when they discover a
voice
> they cannot silence and cannot refute."
>
> "Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past
five
> years. He can explain it to you."
>
> Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
>
> And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
>
> Comments on the related techniques of Susan Maneck:
>
> Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
> "It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is
reading
> Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
> desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
> they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."
>
> "I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of
filled
with
> hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
> tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
> and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just
have
> shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself
"warmest" and
> slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what
she is
> about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"
>
> February 15, 1999:
> "Ms. Maneck's approach appears to me to be always to
> shunt the discussion off or back to who said what where when
> why how and so on.... The farther back in time the better, since
> the person's memory, being human, is bound to be unable to
> keep up or to have stocked the evidence needed on his or her
> hard drive or find it on dejanews.com. And it then allows her
> to claim pretty much anything she wants to while seeming to
> have discredited her opponent. Further, she relies on the
> tactics of demagoguery knowing they usually prevail and will be
> supported by other fundamentalist Bahais. By shrieking
> "slander" and referring to others' opinions as
"garbage," she is
> able to create an emotional atmosphere that essentially negates
> whatever the topic or content might be and that allows her to
> appear to win what is often a narrowly legalistic point or
> interpretation."
>
> "All of this is done, of course, in conjunction with her
employing
> the more common Baha'i Techniques of intimidation and
> psychological demonization and terrorism."
>
> Maneck's scholarly reference to others' opinions as garbage:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck3.htm
>
> Maneck's scholarly reference to others' opinions as litter:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck7.htm
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
>
> This document at
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
>
> See The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
>
> Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan,
> discusses related issues in his journal article "The
> Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997":
>
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm
>
> Also see:
>
> Full Text of UHJ's Letter of April 7, 1999
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJLetterApril71999.htm
>
> Juan Cole, "Commentary" on UHJ's "outburst of vehement
ignorance"
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Outburst.htm
>
> Letter of Resignation from Paul Dodenhoff, Assistant to the Auxiliary
> Board
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/LetterResignationPD.htm
>
> --
> Patrick Henry.... "Give me liberty or give me death!"
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.From: Juan Cole <jrcole@umich.edu>
To: Fred Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: letter of House
Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 4:40 AM
THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE
BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE
Department of the Secretariat
7 April 1999
To all National Spiritual Assemblies
Dear Baha'i Friends,
Issues Related to the Study
of the Baha'i Faith
In May of 1998, Baha'i Canada reproduced a collection of letters which
the
Universal House of Justice had written to various individuals on the
subject of the academic study of the Baha'i Faith. Copies of this
compilation were subsequently mailed by the Canadian National Spiritual
Assembly to its sister Assemblies. The reprint has now been made generally
available in booklet form by the United States Baha'i Publishing Trust.
The
House of Justice has asked us to forward you a copy of the latter
publication with the following comments.
As a number of the friends are aware, a campaign of internal
opposition to
the Teachings is currently being carried on through the use of the
Internet, a communications system that now reaches virtually every part of
the world. Differing from attacks familiar in the past, it seeks to recast
the entire Faith into a socio-political ideology alien to Baha'u'llah's
intent. In the place of the institutional authority established by His
Covenant, it promotes a kind of interpretive authority which those behind
it attribute to the views of persons technically trained in Middle East
studies.
Early in 1996, the deliberate nature of the plan was revealed in an
accidental posting to an Internet list which Baha'i subscribers had
believed was dedicated to scholarly exploration of the Cause. Some of the
people responsible resigned from the Faith when Counsellors pointed out to
them the direction their activities were taking. A small number of others
continue to promote the campaign within the Baha'i community.
In the past, in situations of a somewhat similar nature, the patience
and
compassion shown by 'Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian helped various believers
who had been misled by ill-intentioned persons to eventually free
themselves from such entanglements. In this same spirit of forbearance the
Universal House of Justice has intervened in the current situation only to
the extent that has been unavoidable, trusting to the good sense and the
goodwill of the believers involved to awaken to the spiritual dangers to
which they are exposing themselves. Nevertheless, certain Counsellors and
National Spiritual Assemblies are monitoring the problem closely, and the
friends can be confident that whatever further steps are needed to protect
the integrity of the Cause will be taken.
As passages in the enclosed reprint make clear, this campaign of
internal
opposition -- while purporting to accept the legitimacy of the
Guardianship
and the Universal House of Justice as twin successors of Baha'u'llah and
the Centre of His Covenant -- attempts to cast doubt on the nature and
scope of the authority conferred on them in the Writings. When other
Baha'is have pointed out that such arguments contradict explicit
statements
of the Master, persons
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all National Spiritual
Assemblies
7 April 1999
Page 2
behind the scheme have responded by calling into question the
soundness of
'Abdu'l-Baha's own judgement and perspective. Gradually, these arguments
have exposed the view of those involved that Baha'u'llah Himself was not
the voice of God to our age but merely a particularly enlightened moral
philosopher, one whose primary concern was to reform existing society.
By itself, such opposition would likely stand little chance of
influencing
reasonably informed Baha'is. As one of the letters in the enclosed reprint
(20 July 1997) points out, the scheme relies for effect, therefore, on
exploiting the confusion created in modern thought by the reigning
doctrines of materialism. Although the reality of God's continuous
relationship with His creation and His intervention in human life and
history are the very essence of the teachings of the Founders of the
revealed religions, dogmatic materialism today insists that even the
nature
of religion itself can be adequately understood only through the use of an
academic methodology designed to ignore the truths that make religion what
it is.
In general, the strategy being pursued has been to avoid direct
attacks on
the Faith's Central Figures. The effort, rather, has been to sow the seeds
of doubt among believers about the Faith's teachings and institutions by
appealing to unexamined prejudices that Baha'is may have unconsciously
absorbed from non-Baha'i society. In defiance of the clear interpretation
of 'Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian, for example, Baha'u'llah's limiting of
membership on the Universal House of Justice to men is misrepresented as
merely a "temporary measure" subject to eventual revision if
sufficient
pressure is brought to bear. Similarly, Shoghi Effendi's explanation of
Baha'u'llah's vision of the future Baha'i World Commonwealth that will
unite spiritual and civil authority is dismissed in favour of the
assertion
that the modern political concept of "separation of church and
state" is
somehow one that Baha'u'llah intended as a basic principle of the World
Order He has founded. Particularly subtle is an attempt to suggest that
the
Mashriqu'l-Adhkar should evolve into a seat of quasi-doctrinal authority,
parallel to and essentially independent of the Local House of Justice,
which would permit various interests to insinuate themselves into the
direction of the life processes of the Cause.
Typically, when misrepresentations of the kind described are
challenged,
the reaction of those behind the campaign has been to claim that their
civil rights are being threatened, an assertion that is of course
meaningless in the light of the purely voluntary nature of Baha'i
membership. Much emphasis is placed by them also on academic freedom,
their
view of which proves, on examination, to be merely freedom on their part
to
pervert scholarly discourse to the promotion of their own ideological
agenda, while seeking to exclude from discussion features of the Baha'i
Faith that are central to the Writings of its Founders.
The effect of continued exposure to such insincerity about matters
vital to
humanity's well-being is spiritually corrosive. When we encounter minds
that are closed and hearts that are darkened by evident malice,
Baha'u'llah
urges that we leave such persons to God and turn our attention to the
opportunities which multiply daily for the promotion of the truths which
He
teaches. In words written at the direction of the Guardian, regarding a
situation similar to, though much less serious than, the present one,
" ...
the friends should be advised to just leave these people alone, for their
influence can be nothing but negative and destructive...."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all National Spiritual
Assemblies
7 April 1999
Page 3
The enclosed material is being sent to your Assembly less out of
concern
over the immediate situation, which is being systematically addressed,
than
because of longer-term considerations to which it lends perspective. What
we are currently seeing, in a relatively primitive form, is the emergence
of a new kind of internal opposition to Baha'u'llah's Mission. While it
will no doubt assume other features as time passes, it is a kind of
opposition that takes aim directly at Baha'u'llah's assertion of the
spiritual nature of reality and of humanity's dependence on the
interventions of Divine Revelation.
Developments of the kind described will come as no surprise to friends
who
are familiar with the Guardian's description of the successive waves of
"crisis" and "victory" that have marked the history of
the Faith ever since
its inception. It is precisely this cyclical process, Shoghi Effendi says,
that has propelled the steady unfoldment of Baha'u'llah's intent, testing
our commitment to His Teachings, purifying His community, and releasing a
greater measure of the capacities latent in His Revelation. That
resistance
to Baha'u'llah should now be emerging in yet a new guise is itself a
tribute to the gathering strength of the Cause, offering the friends
everywhere new opportunities for the deepening of their faith and the
energizing of their work.
With loving Baha'i greetings,
...
For Department of the Secretariat
Enclosure
cc: International Teaching Centre
From: <pdodenhoff@my-deja.com>
Subject: Letter of Resignation
Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 10:43 PM
Dear friends,
As you are aware there has been much discussion about
the recent
letter dated April 7, 1999 from the Universal House of Justice
concerning |