From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 8:12 AM To: bnw@bahai.us.com Cc: almarbig@my-deja.com Subject: Brave New World's Demise? bnw@bahai.us.com almarbig@my-deja.com Normally I don't email people off their Usenet posts and hope my doing so doesn't disturb you, as usually it does me, given it's mostly been fundamentalist harassment.... I want to be sure you see my message below. I respect the issues you've put out and am quite serious about making my website available if you need or want it or I'd be happy to help in any other way. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Henry" Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai,alt.religion.bahai Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 6:57 AM Subject: To Al Marbig - (Re: Al Marbig & BNW) > If it's true that the fundamentalists have succeeded in > some way in suppressing Brave New World, I would > be happy to make available all of the back issues on my > website, lest the scathing truth of humor and satire vanish > from the face of the earth.... > > I understand what it's like to be relentlessly attacked by > the fanatics and deceivers among our fellow bahais and > encourage you to somehow summon up the resolve, for the > sake of Baha'u'llah's Faith, to defend the inestimable rights > and privileges of the soul that his Writings so eloquently > and indisputably envision. > > Feel free to email me at f_glaysher@hotmail.com > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message > news:t59karkng1et76@gxsn.com... > > Dear Dr Manek, Mr Mahdi, Moojan Momen (in absentia), > > > > For personal reasons I had left Zuhur and Talisman in early December, > > a fact which can be confirmed by Nima et al. and expected to be off > > for a very considerable period of time. However I was advised that my > > name had come up in speculative posts on TRB/ARB linking me to Al > > Marbig and BNW. > > > > Indeed yesterday I received, along with some others, mail from Mr > > Momen stating that he thought that an "ex-Bahai from Northern Ireland" > > was involved in BNW. In as much as I was the only "ex-Bahai from > > Northern Ireland" to whom the mail was addressed I am driven to the > > conclusion that I am indeed that "ex-Bahai from Northern Ireland" to > > whom he refers. The speculation is indeed fascinating and extremely > > flattering! It is indeed an > > honour to be hailed as the evil genius who has diverted you all, from > > your most important work for the AO, to the hunt for Al Marbig and/or > > the perps of BNW. I thank you, most sincerely and humbly, for the > > compliment implied. > > > > Mr Momen doubtless has contacts amongst the local yokels who can > > testify as to my charecter. To them, I am indeed evil incarnate, a > > combination > > of the Gorgon and Medusa, complete with trident, horns, fangs, claws > > and cloven hooves. Some seem to believe that, indeed, I am he, of > > whom it was prophesied, "And I looked and beheld a pale horse: and his > > name that sat on him was Death > > and Hell followed with him" - Revelation - Chapter 7 Verse 8. (More > > perceptive BIGS can see the clear allusion of this prophecy to me you > > know, the whole "Ryder/Grim Reaper" thing). Those who know me know > > that I do not bend the knee before the AO. Were I the evil genius > > behind BNW it would still be on the Web but you can all go along and > > look at https://www.bahai.us.com and > > https://www.geocities.com/bob_along_henderson/ and see for yourselves > > that BNW has disappeared without trace. Kind of wrecks your theory - > > does it not? > > > > I think that BNW was plotted by an ambitious AOnik - after all the > > kudos of apparently locating Al Marbig and/or removing his appalling > > organ from the Net must augur well for promotional hopes within > > the pit of the AO. Put up a scurrilous mag which really gets up the > > noses at Haifa etc. (using anonymisers for safety) - scour the Net > > looking for yourself, announce you've discovered the dreadful liberal > > culprit who is "ex-Bahai from Northern Ireland" and that you have > > prevailed upon him to take the mag off the Net. Oh Joy! Oh Rapture! > > A standing ovation (and votes) at National Convention for the hero of > > the hour who smote the dreaded ones. Triple Brandies (or equivalent - > > sorry! but I don't know how BIGs celebrate or, indeed, if they do > > celebrate) all round! I could be wrong of course! It's only a theory > > but it's a damned good one, although I say so myself. Only mistake > > was to take BNW down - you can't pin it on me then as I am a well > > known mad dog who wouldn't urinate on an AOnik if he was on fire! > > > > Now people - don't bore me anymore. I have pressing reasons to be > > away from this accursed spot and the assorted AOniks and fundie dross. > > Unlike most of you I have experience, up close and personal, of the > > type of religion that divides - you know the kind that Abdul Baha > > abhorred, driven by fundie control freaks and purveyors of hatred. > > Your BF can't even unite its own - how the blue bloody blazes are you > > going to unite the world? As for you Mr Mahdi - people like you make > > people like me hate people like you, which, in all probability, is > > what > > you have set out to achieve in the first place - so, take a well > > deserved bow! > > > > Go bpléasca an diabhal do dhiosca crua > > > > As ever, > > > > Dermod. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:f_glaysher@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 3:50 PM To: ridgerunner@privacyx.com Cc: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Brave New World Glad to hear it! Mum's the word.... You have a real gift. And fortunately for all of us, the guts to use it. Fred >From: "Edward Smith" >To: >Subject: Brave New World >Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:14:18 -0000 > >Dear Fred, > >Fear not! Games are afoot! Easter is coming and Brave New World shall rise from the dead! > >Please do not compromise its resurrection by posting this message anywhere. This is just to assure you that the torture of the AO has only been temporarily "stayed." > >Yours Most Sincerely, > >Edward ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:f_glaysher@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 8:58 AM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Fwd: Re Brave New World >From: "Edward Smith" >To: "Fred Glaysher" >Subject: Re Brave New World >Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:30:16 -0000 > >Dear Fred, > >Thank you for your kind words. You have no idea how much your site meant to >me when I found it or how much knowledge and solace I acquired from it. > >In strictest confidence I will say this to you - > >BNW is dead, never more to return. This resulted from serious differences >amongst the people concerned. Basically I wanted BNW to get a lot harder >and Al Marbig preferred the softer touch which I believe is totally useless. > >I was the main writer of Issues 1-4. The last issue was not written by me - >I had no input at all. There is an issue of a new and similar mag ready to >go up on the Web but for one problem - whilst I can write the stuff, I have >no Web publishing skills and need somebody with the "balls" to face off and >up to the AO to design a Website and put the thing up. If you know somebody >willing and able, please let me know. I want to put it on an untraceable >site. At the moment the antics on TRB are absolutely wonderful - the AO >doesn't know what is happening or who to blame!! > >Sincerely, > >Edward. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Fred Glaysher >To: ridgerunner@privacyx.com >Cc: FG@hotmail.com >Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 8:50 PM >Subject: Re: Brave New World > > >Glad to hear it! Mum's the word.... > >You have a real gift. And fortunately for all of >us, the guts to use it. > >Fred > > > >From: "Edward Smith" > >To: > >Subject: Brave New World > >Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:14:18 -0000 > > > >Dear Fred, > > > >Fear not! Games are afoot! Easter is coming and Brave New World shall > >rise from the dead! > > > >Please do not compromise its resurrection by posting this message anywhere. > > This is just to assure you that the torture of the AO has only been > >temporarily "stayed." > > > >Yours Most Sincerely, > > > >Edward > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > >Link is external to the Privacyx.com System ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:36 AM To: ridgerunner@privacyx.com Subject: Re Brave New World Edward, Whatever you say to me will be kept in confidence. Don't let the fundamentalist slander along those lines deceive you. What I have revealed in the past has always been their attempts at concealment or distortion of the truth. My own website was knocked out twice in September and briefly in October or so. The extremists have hounded and harassed me more even than I have often stated online, so I can well imagine what perhaps BNW has endured behind the scenes. It seems to me that BNW made a very important contribution to the general discussion of the way things stand today in the bahai faith. It would be a real loss for BNW no longer to exist. At the very least, in my opinion, the back issues should be made available. If you have them on disk, they should be easily uploadable to any server. As I said, I'd be happy to help by placing them on my website permanently or until you make other arrangements, whatever. I would appreciate very much if you could trust me enough to share with me more of the details of what has taken place. The entire debacle with Dialogue comes to mind, and I would think others should know more too for the record what has transpired with BNW. Why do you want BNW on an "untraceable site"? My approach, the right one for me, at least, has been to always keep things open, public, and IN THEIR FACE, which leads the fundies to continually revealing how tyrannical they really are to people of any intelligence whatsoever. I'd urge you to consider taking the same tack. While it would expose you to even more harassment and abuse by the fundamentalists, thoughtful minds will see and understand what is truly taking place. It would also all the more lend greater credibility to your wonderfully scathing satire.... I couldn't do the html for BNW. I'm not as skilled at it as whoever was helping you. With four websites of my own and many other interests, I simply don't have the time and energy to maintain another site. But again, I'm more than willing to place the back issues on my site so that they are available to people, those just beginning to be aware of bahai contradictions, especially, and the non-bahai public. I'm revealing here more about my own thoughts and tactics than I have to anyone else, because of much bitter experience, and also ask for your discussing confidentially these matters with me, whoever you are.... From one who has been through it many, many, many times.... Fred From: "Edward Smith" >To: "Fred Glaysher" >Subject: Re Brave New World >Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:30:16 -0000 > >Dear Fred, > >Thank you for your kind words. You have no idea how much your site meant to >me when I found it or how much knowledge and solace I acquired from it. > >In strictest confidence I will say this to you - > >BNW is dead, never more to return. This resulted from serious differences >amongst the people concerned. Basically I wanted BNW to get a lot harder >and Al Marbig preferred the softer touch which I believe is totally useless. > >I was the main writer of Issues 1-4. The last issue was not written by me - >I had no input at all. There is an issue of a new and similar mag ready to >go up on the Web but for one problem - whilst I can write the stuff, I have >no Web publishing skills and need somebody with the "balls" to face off and >up to the AO to design a Website and put the thing up. If you know somebody >willing and able, please let me know. I want to put it on an untraceable >site. At the moment the antics on TRB are absolutely wonderful - the AO >doesn't know what is happening or who to blame!! > >Sincerely, > >Edward. ---------- From: Edward Smith[SMTP:ridgerunner@privacyx.com] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 8:31 PM To: Frederick Glaysher Subject: Re Re Brave New World Hi Fred, > > Whatever you say to me will be kept in confidence. Don't > let the fundamentalist slander along those lines deceive you. > What I have revealed in the past has always been their > attempts at concealment or distortion of the truth. Only to be expected but I thank you. > > My own website was knocked out twice in September and > briefly in October or so. The extremists have hounded and > harassed me more even than I have often stated online, > so I can well imagine what perhaps BNW has endured > behind the scenes. When I first came on the Net yours was the first Bahai site I found. I cannot describe the feeling that I was not alone in realising that their was potential for and actual corruption in the BF. You're doing a good job. > > It seems to me that BNW made a very important contribution > to the general discussion of the way things stand today in the > bahai faith. It would be a real loss for BNW no longer to exist. BNW as was is dead but as soon as I can get my Web artist a new one will be up and running. One issue is ready to go and there is enough material on file for another two. > > At the very least, in my opinion, the back issues should be > made available. If you have them on disk, they should be easily > uploadable to any server. As I said, I'd be happy to help by > placing them on my website permanently or until you make > other arrangements, whatever. Leave that one with me pro tem - there are other games going on. > > I would appreciate very much if you could trust me enough to > share with me more of the details of what has taken place. The > entire debacle with Dialogue comes to mind, and I would think > others should know more too for the record what has transpired > with BNW. The troubles were all internal but now amicably resolved. Best therefore that they are not revealed to a wider audience. It was all to do with direction and hardness as I intimated earlier. > > Why do you want BNW on an "untraceable site"? My approach, > the right one for me, at least, has been to always keep things > open, public, and IN THEIR FACE, which leads the fundies to > continually revealing how tyrannical they really are to people of > any intelligence whatsoever. I'd urge you to consider taking the > same tack. While it would expose you to even more harassment > and abuse by the fundamentalists, thoughtful minds will see and > understand what is truly taking place. It would also all the more > lend greater credibility to your wonderfully scathing satire.... Quite simple. With a site like yours or Juan's they know who's responsible and against whom they have to proceed. They don't know who is behind BNW or the new one - they don't know about the new one yet. They have devoted enormous resources to find out - at every move disinformation is being put in the way and every effort made to sew distrust in the hope that they turn on themselves looking for traitors. Look at the effort put into TRB - and Momen huffing on his wee list. Look at the numbers accused on little or no evidence! Not merely do they attack known enemies like you but they turn on everybody else as well cajoling and bullying to get this thing off the Web. We do our damnedest to send them off into as many areas as possible looking for culprits or at least making them stew as to whether or not there is any substance to the latest story. If they're at that, they can't be bullying somebody else. I hope that BNW shows up the stupid side of the AO in a format that is readily understood. Its aura cannot but be enhanced by the latest antics on TRB - at the very least the effort exerted by the AO (with other information) shows us that it worries them greatly. At the same time it's important that the likes of you and Juan keep your sites up for they provide the evidence for what BNW satirises. Both of you have been lampooned in BNW and both of you have taken it in the spirit in which it was intended. Having written it, I was tickled that you liked the "Benedict Arnold" bit about you. > > I couldn't do the html for BNW. I'm not as skilled at it as whoever > was helping you. With four websites of my own and many other > interests, I simply don't have the time and energy to maintain > another site. But again, I'm more than willing to place the > back issues on my site so that they are available to people, those > just beginning to be aware of bahai contradictions, especially, and > the non-bahai public. I know you don't have the time to do another site - I was hoping you might have known somebody who was able to do it. Bahai'us.com is back up - another bit of the disinformation campaign - we have frightened them - oh no! we haven't frightened them. Remember the slogan for Jaws. > > I'm revealing here more about my own thoughts and tactics than > I have to anyone else, because of much bitter experience, and also > ask for your discussing confidentially these matters with me, > whoever you are.... Fred, you're on TRB - you can work out who I am. > > From one who has been through it many, many, many times.... May the Good Lord protect you and may you be in heaven a half hour before the Devil knows you're dead! Sincerely, Edward. ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 9:54 AM To: Edward Smith Subject: Re: Re Re Brave New World "Edward," I remember first stumbling onto Cole's early archives of talisman and downloading and ravenously reading most of them. They confirmed for me, in a way similar to what you describe, what I had observed with my own eyes.... Glad to hear I've been able to repay the favor to some small degree. It has certainly been my hope and intention to help my fellow bahais confront such issues. There's just no moving ahead otherwise, in my opinion. I'm glad BNW is back up. I notice, though, the archives are missing the November issue. Pity, I enjoyed that one too. For God's sake, keep writing, whatever you do! I take exception at being referred to as "known enemies like you." That's their conception, not mine. You're free to think and say it but my views and intentions differ. You might need to read me more deeply.... Nietzsche said somewhere LAUGH.... You're helping many to wake up and do just that. Perhaps the suspense of your annonymity adds a dimension that indeed unveils their intolerance all the more. If they ever begin to laugh at themselves, we'll all know progress has been made. You're quite right about the immense effort put into trb-- a fact I've noted all along. We're they not so threatened, the clearly organized and directed effort wouldn't be needed. It's my belief they use private listservs to plan and compare notes on. You might want to look at the archives I have on bahai-discuss, which was used to defeat trb the second time around. They're very revealing in that way and they know it. Everytime I've ever mentioned them, they ignore my comments, hoping I believe, not to draw any further attention to them. Might be some material there for a fun issue! https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/BCCAmenu.htm Momen proved to me years ago he's an ass. I don't read his list, or any of them since they're easily manipulated, Cole's included, when it suits him. I'm for the soapbox in Hyde Park. You get some flakes and oddballs but everything is then out in the open with no one pulling strings behind the scenes. AOL, with 20+ million subscribers, by the way, has long been seriously compromised and in the control of the fanatics, if you're not aware of it. The effort exerted there is even more intense than on trb. Use a free disk for a month and watch the Message Boards if you don't believe me. I should mention too that Cole and I, independently, noticed well over a year ago how they've been working the major search engines to remove links to all sites not along party lines. It occurs to me too that BNW should have a stable site to get into the search engines and establish a lasting presence. You people thinking about that at all? A lot of the traffic on my site comes from search engines. Many of the major databases have done a fine job of evaluating and writing blurbs for my site, driving the fundies crazy I'm sure.... The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience isn't going away. Don't you worry about that. Have to withhold the details.... They're worried about all of us and don't know what to do. Your motives may be different from mine, I don't know, but in the end I believe Baha'u'llah's Writings are unavoidable. It's long been my contention that they're hearing from many people outside the faith about these matters. That's what really worries and drives them and in the long run perhaps force them to change. Don't know anyone to write the html for you. Wish I did. Cover your ass, because they'll never stop looking to fill it with buckshot! Please, keep helping us all to learn to laugh at ourselves.... Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Smith" To: "Frederick Glaysher" Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 8:31 PM Subject: Re Re Brave New World > Hi Fred, > > > > Whatever you say to me will be kept in confidence. Don't > > let the fundamentalist slander along those lines deceive you. > > What I have revealed in the past has always been their > > attempts at concealment or distortion of the truth. > > Only to be expected but I thank you. > > > > My own website was knocked out twice in September and > > briefly in October or so. The extremists have hounded and > > harassed me more even than I have often stated online, > > so I can well imagine what perhaps BNW has endured > > behind the scenes. > > When I first came on the Net yours was the first Bahai site I found. I > cannot describe the feeling that I was not alone in realising that their was > potential for and actual corruption in the BF. You're doing a good job. > > > > > It seems to me that BNW made a very important contribution > > to the general discussion of the way things stand today in the > > bahai faith. It would be a real loss for BNW no longer to exist. > > BNW as was is dead but as soon as I can get my Web artist a new one will be > up and running. One issue is ready to go and there is enough material on > file for another two. > > > > At the very least, in my opinion, the back issues should be > > made available. If you have them on disk, they should be easily > > uploadable to any server. As I said, I'd be happy to help by > > placing them on my website permanently or until you make > > other arrangements, whatever. > > Leave that one with me pro tem - there are other games going on. > > > > I would appreciate very much if you could trust me enough to > > share with me more of the details of what has taken place. The > > entire debacle with Dialogue comes to mind, and I would think > > others should know more too for the record what has transpired > > with BNW. > > The troubles were all internal but now amicably resolved. Best therefore > that they are not revealed to a wider audience. It was all to do with > direction and hardness as I intimated earlier. > > > > > Why do you want BNW on an "untraceable site"? My approach, > > the right one for me, at least, has been to always keep things > > open, public, and IN THEIR FACE, which leads the fundies to > > continually revealing how tyrannical they really are to people of > > any intelligence whatsoever. I'd urge you to consider taking the > > same tack. While it would expose you to even more harassment > > and abuse by the fundamentalists, thoughtful minds will see and > > understand what is truly taking place. It would also all the more > > lend greater credibility to your wonderfully scathing satire.... > > Quite simple. With a site like yours or Juan's they know who's responsible > and against whom they have to proceed. They don't know who is behind BNW or > the new one - they don't know about the new one yet. They have devoted > enormous resources to find out - at every move disinformation is being put > in the way and every effort made to sew distrust in the hope that they turn > on themselves looking for traitors. Look at the effort put into TRB - and > Momen huffing on his wee list. Look at the numbers accused on little or no > evidence! Not merely do they attack known enemies like you but they turn on > everybody else as well cajoling and bullying to get this thing off the Web. > We do our damnedest to send them off into as many areas as possible looking > for culprits or at least making them stew as to whether or not there is any > substance to the latest story. If they're at that, they can't be bullying > somebody else. > > I hope that BNW shows up the stupid side of the AO in a format that is > readily understood. Its aura cannot but be enhanced by the latest antics on > TRB - at the very least the effort exerted by the AO (with other > information) shows us that it worries them greatly. > > At the same time it's important that the likes of you and Juan keep your > sites up for they provide the evidence for what BNW satirises. Both of you > have been lampooned in BNW and both of you have taken it in the spirit in > which it was intended. Having written it, I was tickled that you liked the > "Benedict Arnold" bit about you. > > > > > I couldn't do the html for BNW. I'm not as skilled at it as whoever > > was helping you. With four websites of my own and many other > > interests, I simply don't have the time and energy to maintain > > another site. But again, I'm more than willing to place the > > back issues on my site so that they are available to people, those > > just beginning to be aware of bahai contradictions, especially, and > > the non-bahai public. > > I know you don't have the time to do another site - I was hoping you might > have known somebody who was able to do it. Bahai'us.com is back up - > another bit of the disinformation campaign - we have frightened them - oh > no! we haven't frightened them. Remember the slogan for Jaws. > > > > I'm revealing here more about my own thoughts and tactics than > > I have to anyone else, because of much bitter experience, and also > > ask for your discussing confidentially these matters with me, > > whoever you are.... > > Fred, you're on TRB - you can work out who I am. > > > > > From one who has been through it many, many, many times.... > > May the Good Lord protect you and may you be in heaven a half hour before > the Devil knows you're dead! > > Sincerely, > > Edward. > ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:36 AM To: icrf@aol.com Subject: Religious Freedom Web Sites Please update my website address when you can. It appears on your page: ICRF Religious Freedom Web Sites The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm Thank you. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Edward Smith[SMTP:ridgerunner@privacyx.com] Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 4:00 PM To: Frederick Glaysher Subject: Re Re Re Brave New World Dear Fred, > I'm glad BNW is back up. I notice, though, the archives are > missing the November issue. Pity, I enjoyed that one too. > For God's sake, keep writing, whatever you do! November will be back in due course - it's just that we want to keep them guessing at the moment. > > I take exception at being referred to as "known enemies like > you." That's their conception, not mine. You're free to think > and say it but my views and intentions differ. You might need > to read me more deeply.... Sorry, Fred, there should have been inverted commas on that as in "known enemies". It's the way they regard you but not me. To make up for that I'm appending a preview copy of a section from the new publication, which I hope you'll enjoy. If you have any comments on it - feel free to make em - I won't be annoyed especially if they improve it. > You're quite right about the immense effort put into trb-- > a fact I've noted all along. We're they not so threatened, the > clearly organized and directed effort wouldn't be needed. It's > my belief they use private listservs to plan and compare notes > on. You might want to look at the archives I have on bahai-discuss, > which was used to defeat trb the second time around. They're > very revealing in that way and they know it. Everytime I've ever > mentioned them, they ignore my comments, hoping I believe, not > to draw any further attention to them. Might be some material > there for a fun issue! > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/BCCAmenu.htm > > Momen proved to me years ago he's an ass. I don't read his list, > or any of them since they're easily manipulated, Cole's included, > when it suits him. I'm for the soapbox in Hyde Park. Me too! Your site is so full of stuff, a lot of which I have downloaded, there's still so much to read and absolutely no shortage of stuff to satirise. They ignore everybody - that's why they are such good targets but we are hurting them and that's the main thing. >You get some > flakes and oddballs but everything is then out in the open with > no one pulling strings behind the scenes. AOL, with 20+ million > subscribers, by the way, has long been seriously compromised > and in the control of the fanatics, if you're not aware of it. The > effort exerted there is even more intense than on trb. Use a free > disk for a month and watch the Message Boards if you don't > believe me. I should mention too that Cole and I, independently, > noticed well over a year ago how they've been working the major > search engines to remove links to all sites not along party lines. I had noted that too. > > It occurs to me too that BNW should have a stable site to get > into the search engines and establish a lasting presence. You > people thinking about that at all? A lot of the traffic on my site > comes from search engines. Many of the major databases have > done a fine job of evaluating and writing blurbs for my site, > driving the fundies crazy I'm sure.... We are working on that - thanx for the tips which will be used. > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience isn't going > away. Don't you worry about that. Have to withhold the details.... > They're worried about all of us and don't know what to do. Your > motives may be different from mine, I don't know, but in the end > I believe Baha'u'llah's Writings are unavoidable. It's long been my > contention that they're hearing from many people outside the > faith about these matters. That's what really worries and drives > them and in the long run perhaps force them to change. > > Don't know anyone to write the html for you. Wish I did. > > Cover your ass, because they'll never stop looking to fill it with > buckshot! I am especially thick skinned and where I come from, one learns mighty quick to dodge > > Please, keep helping us all to learn to laugh at ourselves.... I 'll do the best I can. Take care & God bless! Edward ----------------------------------------------------------- The name of the new mag is "Bahai Farm" - this is one of the sections: - CHILDREN'S CORNER Hello Everybody! This is Miss Vanilla saying Welcome to Children's Corner! And what a lovely day it is today. You know, I think it's a lovely day even though some of the children don't think it's a lovely day. Now Kiser (Where did you get that name, dear? Were you a disappointment to your parents?) and Peter and you too, Douglas, don't sulk and go off and sit in the corner because today it's a lovely day and we're all going to learn about farms. Now you know, farms are very, very important to people generally and our Bahai Farm is very important to Bahais who, as we all know are very special people altogether. Now what do farms do that is very important to people generally and especially Bahais? Yes, Ali? Grow things - yes, that's right dear. They grow things - important things, like food that we all eat. You know even non-Bahais eat food. And our Bahai Farm also grows important things. Now who can tell me what important things we grow on our Bahai Farm? Yes Faroff! No dear, we don't grow Spiritually Uplifting Vehicles - we buy those when we get to be big enough to go to Death Valley. No, the important thing that we grow on the Bahai Farm is - the FAITH. Now children, what do we need to grow things on the Farm? Water - yes dear, very good, seeds and soil and … dung - yes dear, we need that but we don't call it that - we call it fertilizer. All of these things are needed to grow food but what do we need on the Bahai Farm to grow the FAITH? You want to go to the wee boys' room - of course dear - you trot along dear, quickly now! No you can't make a mistake and go into the wee girls' room. There isn't one! No dear, I don't need to go and even if I did, I've got to take a long walk down the mountain. Now where were we? Of course - what do we need to grow the FAITH? Now who knows the answer to that? Ian? Oh do try to stay awake Ian - yes dear I know it's difficult but do try harder! Peter? But surely you know something dear. Go on dear have a try! Anybody else like to have a try! Hush now! No I'm not talking to you dear - I'm trying to get Peter to stop crying - he's very upset that he doesn't know the answers and, you know, we must be kind to people who don't know the answers. Well dear, there's no need for you to get on your high horse, because you didn't know the answers either. No - we're not going to kick Peter out because he doesn't know the answers - we are all going to sit down and patiently and lovingly consult with him about all of the wee things he just doesn't seem to understand. Now where were we? Honestly children you're going to have to behave much better if we're going to make any sort of progress - you know we're not at an Assembly meeting now. No Glen, that was only a little joke. Yes dear, everybody knows you ran your Assembly meetings properly when you were on one and everybody was very sad when you had to leave to come over to the big school. No dear they don't keep voting for you because they don't want you back - they really do think you're in the best place here and you know that your little friend would just love to come and join you and was very disappointed that you didn't arrange it for him. Now I'm just going to have to tell you the answer to this one - or shall we try one more time. Now what do we need on a farm to make things grow? Fertilizer - yes dear - very good! And what do we have on the Bahai Farm that is similar to fertilizer? Yes dear - go on - don't be afraid - no, nobody's going to laugh at you. Yes, I know they did before, but if anybody laughs at you now I'll ram this poker so far up… That's right, dear - Training Institutes. We have Super High Intensity Training at our Training Institutes. So while an ordinary farm has fertilizer to make things grow the Bahai Farm has SHIT. Now you know, children, that there's a lot of it about and you know that if the FAITH is going to grow then we're bound to have lots of it about, everywhere. And tell me this children, what do we do with all of this SHIT? Well what does a farmer do with all of that fertilizer? That's right dear, he puts it in the ground and he covers it up and all of the plants grow. So if we're going to make the Faith grow then we're going to have to cover up all the SHIT as well! Well done children! That'll do for now! Next time we're going to learn all about the very naughty children who say very very, very nasty and bad things on something called the Internet and how we're going to have to do something about it. ---------- From: Acecolvin@aol.com[SMTP:Acecolvin@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:24 AM To: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Religious Freedom Web Sites Dear Fred, I have updated your address in our religious freedom links. Alex Colvin Webmaster ICRF ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:48 AM To: Edward Smith Subject: Re: Re Re Re Brave New World You wrote: > satirise. They ignore everybody - that's why they are such good targets but > we are hurting them and that's the main thing. While I agree with you that they "ignore everybody," I must take exception with part of your observation. It is not my intention to "hurt them" or the Bahai Faith. Quite the contrary, as a Bahai, I hope my defense of the sanctity of the individual conscience guaranteed by Baha'u'llah's Writings helps them and the Faith to fulfill its promise. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Smith" To: "Frederick Glaysher" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 4:00 PM Subject: Re Re Re Brave New World > Dear Fred, > > > I'm glad BNW is back up. I notice, though, the archives are > > missing the November issue. Pity, I enjoyed that one too. > > For God's sake, keep writing, whatever you do! > > November will be back in due course - it's just that we want to keep them > guessing at the moment. > > > > > I take exception at being referred to as "known enemies like > > you." That's their conception, not mine. You're free to think > > and say it but my views and intentions differ. You might need > > to read me more deeply.... > > Sorry, Fred, there should have been inverted commas on that as in "known > enemies". It's the way they regard you but not me. To make up for that I'm > appending a preview copy of a section from the new publication, which I hope > you'll enjoy. If you have any comments on it - feel free to make em - I > won't be annoyed especially if they improve it. > > > You're quite right about the immense effort put into trb-- > > a fact I've noted all along. We're they not so threatened, the > > clearly organized and directed effort wouldn't be needed. It's > > my belief they use private listservs to plan and compare notes > > on. You might want to look at the archives I have on bahai-discuss, > > which was used to defeat trb the second time around. They're > > very revealing in that way and they know it. Everytime I've ever > > mentioned them, they ignore my comments, hoping I believe, not > > to draw any further attention to them. Might be some material > > there for a fun issue! > > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/BCCAmenu.htm > > > > Momen proved to me years ago he's an ass. I don't read his list, > > or any of them since they're easily manipulated, Cole's included, > > when it suits him. I'm for the soapbox in Hyde Park. > > Me too! Your site is so full of stuff, a lot of which I have downloaded, > there's still so much to read and absolutely no shortage of stuff to > satirise. They ignore everybody - that's why they are such good targets but > we are hurting them and that's the main thing. > > >You get some > > flakes and oddballs but everything is then out in the open with > > no one pulling strings behind the scenes. AOL, with 20+ million > > subscribers, by the way, has long been seriously compromised > > and in the control of the fanatics, if you're not aware of it. The > > effort exerted there is even more intense than on trb. Use a free > > disk for a month and watch the Message Boards if you don't > > believe me. I should mention too that Cole and I, independently, > > noticed well over a year ago how they've been working the major > > search engines to remove links to all sites not along party lines. > > I had noted that too. > > > > It occurs to me too that BNW should have a stable site to get > > into the search engines and establish a lasting presence. You > > people thinking about that at all? A lot of the traffic on my site > > comes from search engines. Many of the major databases have > > done a fine job of evaluating and writing blurbs for my site, > > driving the fundies crazy I'm sure.... > > We are working on that - thanx for the tips which will be used. > > > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience isn't going > > away. Don't you worry about that. Have to withhold the details.... > > They're worried about all of us and don't know what to do. Your > > motives may be different from mine, I don't know, but in the end > > I believe Baha'u'llah's Writings are unavoidable. It's long been my > > contention that they're hearing from many people outside the > > faith about these matters. That's what really worries and drives > > them and in the long run perhaps force them to change. > > > > Don't know anyone to write the html for you. Wish I did. > > > > Cover your ass, because they'll never stop looking to fill it with > > buckshot! > > I am especially thick skinned and where I come from, one learns mighty quick > to dodge > > > > > Please, keep helping us all to learn to laugh at ourselves.... > > I 'll do the best I can. > > Take care & God bless! > > Edward > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > The name of the new mag is "Bahai Farm" - this is one of the sections: - > > > CHILDREN'S CORNER > > Hello Everybody! This is Miss Vanilla saying Welcome to Children's Corner! > And what a lovely day it is today. You know, I think it's a lovely day even > though some of the children don't think it's a lovely day. Now Kiser (Where > did you get that name, dear? Were you a disappointment to your parents?) and > Peter and you too, Douglas, don't sulk and go off and sit in the corner > because today it's a lovely day and we're all going to learn about farms. > > Now you know, farms are very, very important to people generally and our > Bahai Farm is very important to Bahais who, as we all know are very special > people altogether. Now what do farms do that is very important to people > generally and especially Bahais? Yes, Ali? Grow things - yes, that's right > dear. They grow things - important things, like food that we all eat. You > know even non-Bahais eat food. And our Bahai Farm also grows important > things. Now who can tell me what important things we grow on our Bahai > Farm? Yes Faroff! No dear, we don't grow Spiritually Uplifting Vehicles - > we buy those when we get to be big enough to go to Death Valley. No, the > important thing that we grow on the Bahai Farm is - the FAITH. > > Now children, what do we need to grow things on the Farm? Water - yes dear, > very good, seeds and soil and … dung - yes dear, we need that but we don't > call it that - we call it fertilizer. All of these things are needed to > grow food but what do we need on the Bahai Farm to grow the FAITH? You want > to go to the wee boys' room - of course dear - you trot along dear, quickly > now! No you can't make a mistake and go into the wee girls' room. There > isn't one! No dear, I don't need to go and even if I did, I've got to take > a long walk down the mountain. > > Now where were we? Of course - what do we need to grow the FAITH? Now who > knows the answer to that? Ian? Oh do try to stay awake Ian - yes dear I > know it's difficult but do try harder! Peter? But surely you know > something dear. Go on dear have a try! Anybody else like to have a try! > Hush now! No I'm not talking to you dear - I'm trying to get Peter to stop > crying - he's very upset that he doesn't know the answers and, you know, we > must be kind to people who don't know the answers. Well dear, there's no > need for you to get on your high horse, because you didn't know the answers > either. No - we're not going to kick Peter out because he doesn't know the > answers - we are all going to sit down and patiently and lovingly consult > with him about all of the wee things he just doesn't seem to understand. > > Now where were we? Honestly children you're going to have to behave much > better if we're going to make any sort of progress - you know we're not at > an Assembly meeting now. No Glen, that was only a little joke. Yes dear, > everybody knows you ran your Assembly meetings properly when you were on one > and everybody was very sad when you had to leave to come over to the big > school. No dear they don't keep voting for you because they don't want you > back - they really do think you're in the best place here and you know that > your little friend would just love to come and join you and was very > disappointed that you didn't arrange it for him. Now I'm just going to have > to tell you the answer to this one - or shall we try one more time. Now > what do we need on a farm to make things grow? Fertilizer - yes dear - very > good! And what do we have on the Bahai Farm that is similar to fertilizer? > Yes dear - go on - don't be afraid - no, nobody's going to laugh at you. > Yes, I know they did before, but if anybody laughs at you now I'll ram this > poker so far up… That's right, dear - Training Institutes. We have Super > High Intensity Training at our Training Institutes. So while an ordinary > farm has fertilizer to make things grow the Bahai Farm has SHIT. > > Now you know, children, that there's a lot of it about and you know that if > the FAITH is going to grow then we're bound to have lots of it about, > everywhere. And tell me this children, what do we do with all of this SHIT? > Well what does a farmer do with all of that fertilizer? That's right dear, > he puts it in the ground and he covers it up and all of the plants grow. So > if we're going to make the Faith grow then we're going to have to cover up > all the SHIT as well! > > Well done children! That'll do for now! Next time we're going to learn all > about the very naughty children who say very very, very nasty and bad things > on something called the Internet and how we're going to have to do something > about it. > ---------- From: Dorri Rowell[SMTP:dorri@lineone.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 12:58 PM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Please help if you can. Dear Mr Glaysher, I have been told that you would be a good person to contact for help or advice concerning the Bahai. My Daughter and her family are in desperate trouble and we dont know what to do. She married a Bahai two years ago and her and her two young son's have lived in Hell ever since. Unfortunately there is a child of this marriage,now almost 18 months old and he wants her. (My daughter escaped before the baby was born) This is following a pattern as he did the same thing to a former wife who' apparantly was left with Mental problems. We need something to prove that these Bahai play mind games etc.I have been told there is a page on the internet with letters from other families who have suffered from Bahai treatment but am unable to find it. I cannot stand by and let this person ruin the life of yet another member of my family Thanking you in anticipation and hope. D.E.R. ---------- From: Edward Smith[SMTP:ridgerunner@privacyx.com] Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 8:43 AM To: Frederick Glaysher Subject: Re Re Re Re Brave New World Dear Fred, > If you have no intention of maintaining BNW on the Net, I'd like to preserve it on my website. While > I have the first page saved of each issue, I don't have the sub-pages. > > In my opinion, it's made an important contribution that shouldn't be lost.... Bear with us for the moment - BNW is not going to be lost but will not be on the WEB for a few more weeks. I may well avail of your kind offer - will be in touch on that in due course. Was it Shakespeare who said "The game's afoot!" - no matter who said it, that's what is going on. I'll be in touch! God Bless! Edward > > Fred > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > > > > > > Link is external to the Privacyx.com System > > ---------- From: [SMTP:earthrisepress@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 8:54 AM To: Millennium Forum Subject: Baha'i International Community & the United Nations Assuming other participants at the Millennium Forum have received, as I have, the newsletter "One Country" from the Baha'i International Community, I believe unsuspecting readers ought to be informed about the extent to which the Baha'i Faith itself operates in a manner very different from its public claims at the United Nations and elsewhere. Its attempt to use the Millennium Forum and Summit for its own purposes should give thoughtful observers reason for pause and reflection, if not careful investigation. The truth is that Universal House of Justice has hypocritically violated the human rights of many, many Baha'is, often intellectuals who have candidly expressed their views, in the context of their studies and research, driving them out of the Bahai faith or ostracizing them, including academics in a number of major American universities. The UN and other official government bodies should at least hold it accountable, instead of always being deceived by Baha'i public relations people. Many ex-Baha's and non-Baha's have claimed, without exaggeration, that TENS of THOUSANDS of Americans and other peoples have been driven out of the Baha'i Faith during the last decade or so. The Universal House of Justice itself has poisoned the internal climate of the Baha'i faith through suppression and tyranny and a pervasive *punitive spirit* that only tolerates its own fundamentalist voice. In the only book worth reading on the Baha'i Faith since 1987, Professor Cole of the University of Michigan's Department of History emphasizes the fundamentalism that has overtaken the religion during the 20th Century: Modernity and the Millennium : The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith in the Nineteenth-Century Middle East. Columbia University Press, 1998. https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0231110812/ He further discusses other related Baha'i human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Extensive documentation may be found on my website, the Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: [SMTP:earthrisepress@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 3:49 PM To: MFDiscuss@egroups.com Subject: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations Assuming other participants at the Millennium Forum have received, as I have, the newsletter "One Country" from the Baha'i International Community, I believe unsuspecting readers ought to be informed about the extent to which the Baha'i Faith itself operates in a manner very different from its public claims at the United Nations and elsewhere. Its attempt to use the Millennium Forum and Summit for its own purposes should give thoughtful observers reason for pause and reflection, if not careful investigation. The truth is that Universal House of Justice has hypocritically violated the human rights of many, many Baha'is, often intellectuals who have candidly expressed their views, in the context of their studies and research, driving them out of the Bahai faith or ostracizing them, including academics in a number of major American universities. The UN and other official government bodies should at least hold it accountable, instead of always being deceived by Baha'i public relations people. Many ex-Baha's and non-Baha's have claimed, without exaggeration, that TENS of THOUSANDS of Americans and other peoples have been driven out of the Baha'i Faith during the last decade or so. The Universal House of Justice itself has poisoned the internal climate of the Baha'i faith through suppression and tyranny and a pervasive *punitive spirit* that only tolerates its own fundamentalist voice. In the only book worth reading on the Baha'i Faith since 1987, Professor Cole of the University of Michigan's Department of History emphasizes the fundamentalism that has overtaken the religion during the 20th Century: Modernity and the Millennium : The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith in the Nineteenth-Century Middle East. Columbia University Press, 1998. https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0231110812/ He further discusses other related Baha'i human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Extensive documentation may be found on my website, the Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: mgold[SMTP:mgold@homeplanet.org] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:25 PM To: MFDiscuss@egroups.com Subject: Re: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations This posting offends me. I am not a Bahai, but I am aware that all fundamentalists are capable of manipulating information. Let us not throw the child out with the bathwater, but read all information with an open heart. I believe that we all would be well advised to read all of the information from the Millennium Summit and the Report of the Secretary General from a similar viewpoint. Let us not single out the Bahais or any other religious perspective, but let us be open to true spiritual experience. May Peace prevail on Earth. Mitch Gold Mitchell L Gold International Association of Educators for World Peace VP North American Affairs UN Special Envoy 416-924-4449 Fax 416-924-4094 https://www.homeplanet.org https://www.homeplanet.org/ iaewp https://www.homeplanet.org/alliance ---------- From: To: MFDiscuss@egroups.com Subject: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations Date: January 22, 2001 3:49 PM Assuming other participants at the Millennium Forum have received, as I have, the newsletter "One Country" from the Baha'i International Community, I believe unsuspecting readers ought to be informed about the extent to which the Baha'i Faith itself operates in a manner very different from its public claims at the United Nations and elsewhere. Its attempt to use the Millennium Forum and Summit for its own purposes should give thoughtful observers reason for pause and reflection, if not careful investigation. The truth is that Universal House of Justice has hypocritically violated the human rights of many, many Baha'is, often intellectuals who have candidly expressed their views, in the context of their studies and research, driving them out of the Bahai faith or ostracizing them, including academics in a number of major American universities. The UN and other official government bodies should at least hold it accountable, instead of always being deceived by Baha'i public relations people. Many ex-Baha's and non-Baha's have claimed, without exaggeration, that TENS of THOUSANDS of Americans and other peoples have been driven out of the Baha'i Faith during the last decade or so. The Universal House of Justice itself has poisoned the internal climate of the Baha'i faith through suppression and tyranny and a pervasive *punitive spirit* that only tolerates its own fundamentalist voice. In the only book worth reading on the Baha'i Faith since 1987, Professor Cole of the University of Michigan's Department of History emphasizes the fundamentalism that has overtaken the religion during the 20th Century: Modernity and the Millennium : The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith in the Nineteenth-Century Middle East. Columbia University Press, 1998. https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0231110812/ He further discusses other related Baha'i human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Extensive documentation may be found on my website, the Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: [SMTP:earthrisepress@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 3:49 PM To: MFDiscuss@egroups.com Subject: Baha'i International Community & the United Nations Assuming other participants at the Millennium Forum have received, as I have, the newsletter "One Country" from the Baha'i International Community, I believe unsuspecting readers ought to be informed about the extent to which the Baha'i Faith itself operates in a manner very different from its public claims at the United Nations and elsewhere. Its attempt to use the Millennium Forum and Summit for its own purposes should give thoughtful observers reason for pause and reflection, if not careful investigation. The truth is that Universal House of Justice has hypocritically violated the human rights of many, many Baha'is, often intellectuals who have candidly expressed their views, in the context of their studies and research, driving them out of the Bahai faith or ostracizing them, including academics in a number of major American universities. The UN and other official government bodies should at least hold it accountable, instead of always being deceived by Baha'i public relations people. Many ex-Baha's and non-Baha's have claimed, without exaggeration, that TENS of THOUSANDS of Americans and other peoples have been driven out of the Baha'i Faith during the last decade or so. The Universal House of Justice itself has poisoned the internal climate of the Baha'i faith through suppression and tyranny and a pervasive *punitive spirit* that only tolerates its own fundamentalist voice. In the only book worth reading on the Baha'i Faith since 1987, Professor Cole of the University of Michigan's Department of History emphasizes the fundamentalism that has overtaken the religion during the 20th Century: Modernity and the Millennium : The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith in the Nineteenth-Century Middle East. Columbia University Press, 1998. https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0231110812/ He further discusses other related Baha'i human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Extensive documentation may be found on my website, the Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: [SMTP:earthrisepress@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:41 AM To: MFDiscuss@egroups.com Subject: Re: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations mgold wrote: >This posting offends me. I am not a Bahai, but I am aware that all >fundamentalists are capable of manipulating information. ---- I'm sorry my post offends you. Having been a Baha'i now since 1976, I had to decide whether to share what I know about the darker side of the Baha'i Faith or remain silent about it when I too received a copy of the International Baha'i Community's "One Country" through its use of the Millennium Forum mailing list. What offends me is the Baha'i administration's censoring and driving out UK, New Zealand, Australian, US academics and others for their scholarly opinions or views, at times expressed on free and open mailing lists like this one. What offends me is the use and cultivation of the United Nations to further a hidden fundamentalist agenda to the unsuspecting. It was hence disconcerting to hear Techeste Ahderom in the UN General Assembly Hall talking about human rights. While it was not my desire to start here a lengthy discussion about the violation of very basic human rights within the Baha'i Faith, I do believe it is proper to indicate there is much more to the story than presented in the propaganda piece "One Country" and mention University of Michigan Professor Juan Cole's website and my own for those concerned. Again, Cole discusses, in a survey format, Baha'i human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: MFDiscuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com ---------- From: [SMTP:earthrisepress@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:16 AM To: fglaysher Subject: Subject: Re: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations Original Message ----- From: mgold To: MFDiscuss@egroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations This posting offends me. I am not a Bahai, but I am aware that all fundamentalists are capable of manipulating information. ---- I'm sorry my post offends you. Having been a Baha'i now since 1976, I had to decide whether to share what I know about the darker side of the Baha'i Faith or suppress it when I too received a copy of the International Baha'i Community's "One Country." What offends me is the Baha'i administration's censoring and driving out UK, New Zealand, Australian, US academics and others for their scholarly opinions or views, at times expressed on free and open mailing lists like this one. What offends me is the use and cultivation of the United Nations to further a hidden fundamentalist agenda to the unsuspecting. It was hence disconcerting to hear Techeste Ahderom in the UN General Assembly Hall talking about human rights. While it was not my desire to start a lengthy discussion about the violation of very basic human rights within the Baha'i Faith, I do believe it is proper to indicate there is much more to the story than presented in propaganda piece "One Country" and mention University of Michigan Professor Juan Cole's website and my own for those concerned. Again, Cole discusses Baha'i human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: [SMTP:earthrisepress@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:16 AM To: fglaysher Subject: Subject: Re: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations Original Message ----- From: mgold To: MFDiscuss@egroups.com Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations This posting offends me. I am not a Bahai, but I am aware that all fundamentalists are capable of manipulating information. ---- I'm sorry my post offends you. Having been a Baha'i now since 1976, I had to decide whether to share what I know about the darker side of the Baha'i Faith or suppress it when I too received a copy of the International Baha'i Community's "One Country." What offends me is the Baha'i administration's censoring and driving out UK, New Zealand, Australian, US academics and others for their scholarly opinions or views, at times expressed on free and open mailing lists like this one. What offends me is the use and cultivation of the United Nations to further a hidden fundamentalist agenda to the unsuspecting. It was hence disconcerting to hear Techeste Ahderom in the UN General Assembly Hall talking about human rights. While it was not my desire to start a lengthy discussion about the violation of very basic human rights within the Baha'i Faith, I do believe it is proper to indicate there is much more to the story than presented in propaganda piece "One Country" and mention University of Michigan Professor Juan Cole's website and my own for those concerned. Again, Cole discusses Baha'i human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: [SMTP:earthrisepress@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 7:41 AM To: MFDiscuss@egroups.com Subject: Re: [MFDiscuss] Baha'i International Community & the United Nations mgold wrote: >This posting offends me. I am not a Bahai, but I am aware that all >fundamentalists are capable of manipulating information. ---- I'm sorry my post offends you. Having been a Baha'i now since 1976, I had to decide whether to share what I know about the darker side of the Baha'i Faith or remain silent about it when I too received a copy of the International Baha'i Community's "One Country" through its use of the Millennium Forum mailing list. What offends me is the Baha'i administration's censoring and driving out UK, New Zealand, Australian, US academics and others for their scholarly opinions or views, at times expressed on free and open mailing lists like this one. What offends me is the use and cultivation of the United Nations to further a hidden fundamentalist agenda to the unsuspecting. It was hence disconcerting to hear Techeste Ahderom in the UN General Assembly Hall talking about human rights. While it was not my desire to start here a lengthy discussion about the violation of very basic human rights within the Baha'i Faith, I do believe it is proper to indicate there is much more to the story than presented in the propaganda piece "One Country" and mention University of Michigan Professor Juan Cole's website and my own for those concerned. Again, Cole discusses, in a survey format, Baha'i human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Nima Hazini[SMTP:lotusapt@wxc.com.au] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:34 AM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Petition Nima Hazini ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:12 AM To: fglaysher Subject: Petition [ Those wishing their names to be added to this petition may do so by posting to talk.religion.bahai or emailing me privately prior to Naw-Ruz at FG@hotmail.com ] The undersigned request that the Universal House of Justice reassess the state of affairs within the Baha'i Faith as pertains to freedom of conscience and belief, the review of thoughts and ideas, and all matters pertaining to the silencing of individuals since at least the early 1970s; the undersigned request that the Universal House of Justice chart a new course for Baha'is congruent with the Teachings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha on these matters, preferably by Ridvan 2001; the undersigned request that significant and real personnel changes be made, where necessary, to reform and restore trust and confidence in Baha'i Institutions; the undersigned request that evidence be forthcoming commensurate with the seriousness of the prevailing situation within Baha'i Communities around the globe. The undersigned draw sustenance from the tenor of such Writings as the following: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The light of men is Justice. Quench it not with the contrary winds of oppression and tyranny." --Baha'u'llah -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions." --Abdu'l-Baha -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants." Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is a goodly temple and congregation, for--praise be to God!--this is a house of worship [Central Congregational Church in Brooklyn on 16 June 1912] wherein conscientious opinion has free sway. Every religion and every religious aspiration may be freely voiced and expressed here. Just as in the world of politics there is need for free thought, likewise in the world of religion there should be the right of unrestricted individual belief. Consider what a vast difference exists between modern democracy and the old forms of despotism. Under an autocratic government the opinions of men are not free, and development is stifled, whereas in a democracy, because thought and speech are not restricted, the greatest progress is witnessed. It is likewise true in the world of religion. When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable. Therefore, this is a blessed church because its pulpit is open to every religion, the ideals of which may be set forth with openness and freedom." Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Let us also remember that at the very root of the Cause lies the principle of the undoubted right of the individual to self-expression, his freedom to declare his conscience and set forth his views." Shoghi Effendi, Baha'i Administration, 63-64. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The undersigned petitioning the Universal House of Justice are Frederick Glaysher ---------- From: Dermod Ryder[SMTP:Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:06 PM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Petition Dear Fred, Please add my name to your petition. You are also at liberty to enclose my E-mail address for verification purposes. As ever, Dermod. ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:55 AM Subject: AOL & Open Petition for a Bahai Reformation FYI ------ Subject: Re: A Question to the Community Leaders.... Date: 2/26/2001 7:36 AM Eastern Standard Time From: GlaysherFJ Message-id: <20010226073616.04001.00000011@ng-mi1.aol.com> Dear Community Leader: Your comments are quite false and misleading, in my opinion. The uhj has become an intolerant fundamentalist institution, distorting Baha'u'llah's most basic Teachings regarding freedom of speech and conscience. It uses tyrannical and deceitful definitions of what constitutes "loving consultation" to encourage the lowest elements among our fellow Bahais to attack and malign others in the hope of driving them into silence and submission, indeed, even of driving OUT of the Bahai Faith.... Those wishing to confirm these claims need only look at the threats currently being made against my LIFE by a Bahai fundamentalist on talk.religion.bahai, easily accessible from AOL by Keyword Newsgroups. Do you encourage and support threatening the very lives of your fellow Bahais who do not share your intolerant fundamentalism? In such an atmosphere of fear and intimidation, many Bahais and ex-bahais, even non-bahais, may very well find it wise to sign my Open Petition for a Bahai Reformation with a pseudonym. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm >Subject: Re: A Question to the Community Leaders.... >Date: 2/20/2001 11:32 AM Eastern Standard Time >From: LDRS LFST Shahid >Message-id: <20010220113246.05728.00003460@ng-md1.aol.com> > > >>Note in Announcements that I would allow you to use a pseudonym if >>you're too afraid of the intolerant fundamentalism of the universal >>house of "justice" to state your views in an open and candid manner.... > >Dear Mr. Glaysher, > >The Universal House of Justice, which is neither fundamentalist nor >intolerant, is well aware of my views already. I do not hesitate to express >them to that body in a spirit of loving consultation instead of pressure >politicking. Therefore, I do not require either a pseudonym or your petitions >to do so. > >Besides, signing a petition with a pseudonym renders it useless anyhow. > > >LDRS LFST Shahid >Volunteer Message Board Leader >Baha'i Message Board > > > > > > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:25 PM Subject: Re: AOL & Open Petition for a Bahai Reformation The latest duplicities: Subj: Signature Lines, etc. Date: 3/6/2001 12:45:09 AM Eastern Standard Time From: ldrslfstshahid@aol.com (LDRS LFST Shahid) To: glaysherfj@aol.com Dear friends, Signature lines are permissible and even encouraged but these must comply with the Spirituality Message Board Standards and AOL's Terms of Service. The Spirituality message boards are dedicated to support and/or fellowship, therefore websites aimed at attacking the Baha'i Faith should not be posted here. Also, please avoid making short "I agree" statements on the board. They tend to clutter the boards. Also, try to avoid reposting entire messages in your responses. LDRS LFST Shahid Volunteer Message Board Leader Baha'i Message Board ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (rly-ye02.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.199]) by air-ye04.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:45:09 -0500 Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:44:42 -0500 Received: from ladder05.news.aol.com (ladder05.news.aol.com [172.31.45.159]) by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA13684 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 00:44:27 -0500 (EST) From: ldrslfstshahid@aol.com (LDRS LFST Shahid) To: glaysherfj@aol.com Date: 06 Mar 2001 00:43:32 EST References: <20010305075229.20363.00000958@ng-ch1.aol.com> Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Subject: Signature Lines, etc. Message-ID: <20010306004332.18966.00001323@ng-mi1.aol.com> "Frederick Glaysher" wrote in message news:ta1p8d80p8re6b@corp.supernews.com... > FYI: > > Subj: Your Post on the Baha'i Message Board > Date: 2/27/2001 1:42:17 AM Eastern Standard Time > From: LDRS LFST Shahid > To: GlaysherFJ > CC: LDRS LFST Jerry, LDRS LFST Mgr > > > Dear Mr. Fred Glaysher, > > > Regarding your message posted at: Lifestyle>Spirituality>Baha'i Message > Board>Questions to the Community Leaders>2/26/01 7:36 AM > > To avoid further disruption to the message board, some of your posts have > been removed. Please review Keyword: TOS and the Spirituality Message Board > Guidelines for more information on what is appropriate in our community. > > Depending on the severity of the disruption, a report may have been > submitted to AOL's Community Action Team for further review. > > Thanks for taking the time to read this letter. Please note, I cannot > respond to replies. Therefore, if you have any comments or questions please > send mail to TOSGeneral. > > Regards, > > > > LDRS LFST Shahid > Volunteer Message Board Leader > Baha'i Message Board > > Subject: Re: A Question to the Community Leaders.... > Date: 2/26/01 7:36 AM Eastern Standard Time > From: GlaysherFJ > Message-id: <20010226073616.04001.00000011@ng-mi1.aol.com> > > > Dear Community Leader: > > Your comments are quite false and misleading, in my opinion. > > The uhj has become an intolerant fundamentalist institution, distorting > Baha'u'llah's most basic Teachings regarding freedom of speech and > conscience. It uses tyrannical and deceitful definitions of what constitutes > "loving consultation" to encourage the lowest elements among our fellow > Bahais to attack and malign others in the hope of driving them into silence > and submission, indeed, even of driving OUT of the Bahai Faith.... Those > wishing to > confirm these claims need only look at the threats currently being made > against my LIFE by a Bahai fundamentalist on talk.religion.bahai, easily > accessible from AOL by Keyword Newsgroups. > > Do you encourage and support threatening the very lives of your fellow > Bahais who do not share your intolerant fundamentalism? > > In such an atmosphere of fear and intimidation, many Bahais and ex-bahais, > even non-bahais, may very well find it wise to sign my Open Petition for a > Bahai Reformation with a pseudonym. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > "Frederick Glaysher" wrote in message > news:97djkn$oitbb$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > FYI > > > > ------ > > Subject: Re: A Question to the Community Leaders.... > > Date: 2/26/2001 7:36 AM Eastern Standard Time > > From: GlaysherFJ > > Message-id: <20010226073616.04001.00000011@ng-mi1.aol.com> > > > > > > Dear Community Leader: > > > > Your comments are quite false and misleading, in my opinion. > > > > The uhj has become an intolerant fundamentalist institution, distorting > > Baha'u'llah's most basic Teachings regarding freedom of speech and > > conscience. It uses tyrannical and deceitful definitions of what > constitutes > > "loving consultation" to encourage the lowest elements among our fellow > > Bahais to attack and malign others in the hope of driving them into > silence > > and submission, indeed, even of driving OUT of the Bahai Faith.... > > > > Those wishing to > > confirm these claims need only look at the threats currently being made > > against my LIFE by a Bahai fundamentalist on talk.religion.bahai, easily > > accessible from AOL by Keyword Newsgroups. > > > > Do you encourage and support threatening the very lives of your fellow > > Bahais who do not share your intolerant fundamentalism? > > > > In such an atmosphere of fear and intimidation, many Bahais and ex-bahais, > > even non-bahais, may very well find it wise to sign my Open Petition for a > > Bahai Reformation with a pseudonym. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > www.fglaysher.com > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: A Question to the Community Leaders.... > > >Date: 2/20/2001 11:32 AM Eastern Standard Time > > >From: LDRS LFST Shahid > > >Message-id: <20010220113246.05728.00003460@ng-md1.aol.com> > > > > > > > > >>Note in Announcements that I would allow you to use a pseudonym if > > >>you're too afraid of the intolerant fundamentalism of the universal > > >>house of "justice" to state your views in an open and candid manner.... > > > > > >Dear Mr. Glaysher, > > > > > >The Universal House of Justice, which is neither fundamentalist nor > > >intolerant, is well aware of my views already. I do not hesitate to > express > > >them to that body in a spirit of loving consultation instead of pressure > > >politicking. Therefore, I do not require either a pseudonym or your > > petitions > > >to do so. > > > > > >Besides, signing a petition with a pseudonym renders it useless anyhow. > > > > > > > > >LDRS LFST Shahid > > >Volunteer Message Board Leader > > >Baha'i Message Board > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: Re: AOL & Open Petition for a Bahai Reformation FYI note Susan Maneck's link as signature file on AOL which the present "Community Leader" permitted while prohibitting mine. Conclusion: as long as fellow fundamentalist fanatics are posting them, it's permissible.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---- Subject: Baha'i Epochs Date: 1/29/2001 2:46 AM Eastern Standard Time From: Smaneck Message-id: <20010129024623.05802.00003149@ng-cg1.aol.com> Dear friends, Earlier someone had asked about the various Baha'i Epochs. I was able to locate the following article on this topic. warmest, Susan Epochs explained (From Rodney Clarken's education list, https://www-instruct.nmu.edu/education/rclarken/) Since the House announced the Fifth Epoch of the Formative Age, I have had several people ask about what it means and for background on the epochs. Below is the best description I have come across and refers to references where the House has explained earlier epochs. Forwarded by Riaz Khadem via Shahla. _____________ A number of the friends have inquired into the meaning of the Universal House of Justice' announcement of the beginning of the Fifth Epoch of the Formative Age of the Faith. While the full meaning of this announcement will be revealed with time, it is instructive to read the description of the previous epochs of the formative age as described by the House of Justice itself in *Messages from the Universal House of Justice, 1963-1986.* "Epoch" is a term used by the Beloved Guardian to describe progressive stages in the evolution of the organic Baha'i community and signal the maturation of its institutions, allowing the Faith to operate at new levels and to initiate new functions. Here is a description of the stages in the evolution of the Faith, using these epochs as demarcations of maturation: The Epochs of the Apostolic & The Heroic Age of the Dispensations of the Bab and Baha'u'llah: 1844-1853: The Epoch of the Bab 1853-1892: The Epoch of Baha'u'llah 1892-1921: The Epoch of Abdu'l-Baha The Epochs of the Formative Age of the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah: 1921-1944/6: The First Epoch Birth and the primary stages in the erection of the framework of the Administrative Order of the Faith, with the formation of local and national institutions in all five continents. Began with naming of Shoghi Effendi as the Guardian of the Cause, his careful instruction of the community in the principles of Baha'i administration, and led to the inception of the First Seven Year Plan (1937-1944) of the North American Baha'i community, the first systematic teaching campaign in the history of the Faith, which inaugerated the execution of the Tablets of the Divine Plan. 1946-1963: The Second Epoch Under the guidance of Shoghi Effendi, involved the formulation of a succession of national teaching plans designed to facilitate the development of the Faith beyond the confines of the Western Hemisphere and the continent of Europe. Marked by the inception of the second Seven Year Plan in America (1946-1953) and the worldwide Ten Year Crusade (1953-1963), involving twelve national plans, and achieved the appointment of the Hands of the Cause, the appointment of Auxiliary Boards, and the establishment of the International Baha'i Council, concluding in the election of the Universal House of Justice. 1963-1986: The Third Epoch Led by the Universal House of Justice, witnessed the emergence of the Faith from obscurity, the initiation of activities designed to foster social and economic development, the creation of the institution of the Continental Boards of Counsellors and the International Teaching Centre, the appointment of assistants to Auxiliary Board Members, and the construction and occupation by the Universal House of Justice of its Seat on Mt. Carmel. Launched three worldwide plans: the Nine Year Plan (1964-1973) the Five Year Plan (1974-1979) and the Seven Year Plan (1979-1986). 1986-2001: The Fourth Epoch Witnessed the formulation of the specific goals for each national community through consultation of the National Spiritual Assemblies and the Continental Boards of Counsellors. Began with the Six Year Plan (1986-1992), and continued through the Holy Year (1992-1993) to the Three Year Plan (1993-1996), the Four Year Plan (1996-2000) and the Twelve Month Plan (2000-2001). 2001- : The Fifth Epoch Via internalizing and integrating the lessons and experiences of systematization witnessed an unparalleled unity of thought in the institution of the Counsellors. Saw the completion of the Arc on Mt. Carmel, a change in the Baha'i culture due to the emergence of training institutes, and the synchronization of institutional collaboration with the external processes toward world unity. **All the Epochs are described in length in *Messages from the Universal House of Justice 1963-1986,* Pgs 710 -716 Para 451.1 - 451.14 As we reflect upon the significance of this Fifth Epoch, we may wish to contemplate what marvels will mark this period as the Baha'i community extends to its grassroots-at the level of the Local Spiritual Assemblies and the Auxiliary Board Members and their assistants in a united, systematic process of growth-the collaboration between the institutions of the rulers and learned in the training institutes which have contributed to a dramatic change in the culture of the Baha'i community around the world. warmest, Susan https://www.susanmaneck.com ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:36 PM Subject: Re: AOL Censorship & Abuse of TOS rules by the fundamentalist Community "Leader" Please note that my website does not attack the bahai faith but reveals the extent to which fundamentalists among our fellow bahais attack people who do not share their literal-minded mindset. It will be evident to honest and decent people that you abuse your position and are merely attempting to finding other strategems to falsely TOS me. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm --- Subj: Signature Lines, etc. Date: 3/6/2001 12:45:09 AM Eastern Standard Time From: ldrslfstshahid@aol.com (LDRS LFST Shahid) To: glaysherfj@aol.com Dear friends, Signature lines are permissible and even encouraged but these must comply with the Spirituality Message Board Standards and AOL's Terms of Service. The Spirituality message boards are dedicated to support and/or fellowship, therefore websites aimed at attacking the Baha'i Faith should not be posted here. Also, please avoid making short "I agree" statements on the board. They tend to clutter the boards. Also, try to avoid reposting entire messages in your responses. LDRS LFST Shahid Volunteer Message Board Leader Baha'i Message Board ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (rly-ye02.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.199]) by air-ye04.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:45:09 -0500 Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com (imo-m01.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.4]) by rly-ye02.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:44:42 -0500 Received: from ladder05.news.aol.com (ladder05.news.aol.com [172.31.45.159]) by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA13684 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 00:44:27 -0500 (EST) From: ldrslfstshahid@aol.com (LDRS LFST Shahid) To: glaysherfj@aol.com Date: 06 Mar 2001 00:43:32 EST References: <20010305075229.20363.00000958@ng-ch1.aol.com> Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Subject: Signature Lines, etc. Message-ID: <20010306004332.18966.00001323@ng-mi1.aol.com> ---------- From: Ray Bennett[SMTP:rbennett@mail.mdt.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:58 PM To: Frederick Glaysher Subject: Petition to Universal House of Justice. Dear Fred, My wife and I would be very happy to have our names added to your petition to the U.H.J. We were members of the Baha'i Faith for very many years, but in March last year we resigned and declared our belief in the Orthodox Baha'i Faith, with a living Guardian, Joel Bray Marangella. This is the most wonderful thing we have ever done. Keep up the good work, Pam Bennett & Ray Bennett. ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 7:01 AM Subject: Re: Bahai Temple in Delhi In the only book worth reading on the Bahai Faith since 1987, Professor Cole emphasizes the fundamentalism that has overtaken the religion during the 20th Century: Juan Cole, Modernity and the Millennium : The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith in the Nineteenth-Century Middle East Columbia University Press, 1998. Available on Amazon.com. Reviews on my bahai website. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "PATXI" wrote in message news:98gtam$fra$1@diana.bcn.ttd.net... > Hi, friends.We're a couple who live in Spain, but recently we went to India. > In Delhi we met a new phylosophy, this one was call, "Bahai" and its > doctrine was a sample of fraternity between all religions and gods all > around the world. We could see the Lotto´s Temple in Delhi (it was > marvellous), and felt all the peace and spirituallity that remains in the > ambience. We want to know more information about Bahai Culture, can you help > us?? > Thanks for all. > PATXI y MARTA > > > > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 7:03 AM Subject: Re: Heart of the Baha'i Faith Discussion Group Announces Formation >"several millions of Baha'is throughout the world." That number is false. Documentation to that effect may be found at False Membership Statistics on Encyclopedia Britannica 1/11/2000 https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/reposts.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 7:32 AM Subject: bahais on BeliefNet.com - slander tactics The original posts by Bruce may be found at https://www.beliefnet.com discussion boards, specifically the one titled Baha'i Faith Challenge & Critique. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm -------- 3/10/01 7:00 PM 2 out of 2 FG>I have been a member of the Bahai faith since 1976. Yeah, right! And what he's _not_ telling you is that he resigned years ago, and has been attacking the Baha'i Covenant and the administration it established ever since. Indeed, if i'm not mistaken, he left the Faith rather than obey its Covenant. He is thus _not_ a Baha'i, and hasn't been one for many years--nor are the others working with him against the Faith. alert people may wish to consider why he didn't tell you this. Bruce 3/10/01 6:11 PM 2 out of 2 NOTICE! All individuals reading here should be warned that Glaysher and Cole are not Baha'is, and have essentially made a profession of attacking the Baha'i Faith generally and its elected institutions in particular. I will not go into the apparent reasons for these tirades because I don't want to be guilty of backbiting, but I do have statements from both the Baha'i Universal House of Justice and a knowledgeable Baha'i where the activities of these individuals have been addressed in more detail. Those readers wanting to see these should contact me and give an email address. And their terminology is also misleading: there is no such dichotomy as "liberal" or "fundamentalist" Baha'is: _all_ Baha'is abide by the Covenant of Baha'u'llah, which expressly establishes our institutions and how they operate. So to the extent these individuals reject all this, they are not Baha'is, pure and simple. That's their right, but there seems to be a preference to allow readers to mistake them for Baha'i when they're not. Bruce ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 7:35 AM Subject: Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Baha'u'llah is the Prophet of God for mankind in this day and age. He Himself laid the foundation for the Universal House of Justice, hampered, thank God, though it be, by the loss of the Guardian. I trust that, in the long run of history, He will not leave his institution to itself but will lead it back, through perhaps the compelling Vision of his Writings and the devoted consciences of his followers, to its humble, modest, and balanced role as his legislative body. I have never repudiated my belief in Baha'u'llah nor the legitimacy of his institutions. That some benighted individual bahais have temporarily distorted the bahai faith into a hideous form of fanaticism and fundamentalism does not negate the Truth of his Revelation and its saving grace for this nihilistic desert. https://fglaysher.com/LettersAmD1989-1994.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: FG[SMTP:f_glaysher@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 7:35 PM To: community@staff.beliefnet.com Cc: fglaysher Subject: Violation - Rule of Conduct "posts that malign, vilify, defame, abuse, harass, or threaten others" The person below continues to malign the integrity of my belief in the bahai faith by referring to me as a "covenant breaker," a kind of heretic, if you will, and falsely stating I am not a member of the bahai faith. My bahai membership card may be found on my bahai website. I warned him more than a week ago that I would not tolerant such vilification and harassment. I would appreciate it if you ask him to cease abusing me. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ------------ bruce-l 3/10/01 6:11 PM 2 out of 9 NOTICE! All individuals reading here should be warned that Glaysher and Cole are not Baha'is, and have essentially made a profession of attacking the Baha'i Faith generally and its elected institutions in particular. I will not go into the apparent reasons for these tirades because I don't want to be guilty of backbiting, but I do have statements from both the Baha'i Universal House of Justice and a knowledgeable Baha'i where the activities of these individuals have been addressed in more detail. Those readers wanting to see these should contact me and give an email address. And their terminology is also misleading: there is no such dichotomy as "liberal" or "fundamentalist" Baha'is: _all_ Baha'is abide by the Covenant of Baha'u'llah, which expressly establishes our institutions and how they operate. So to the extent these individuals reject all this, they are not Baha'is, pure and simple. That's their right, but there seems to be a preference to allow readers to mistake them for Baha'i when they're not. Bruce ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: Re: Glaysher's malicious slander on beliefnet.ORG (was: bahais on BeliefNet.com - slander tactics) "I just get a sick feeling in my stomach when I read some of that verbal violence, because in my youth, alot of that was aimed at me by alot of Baha'is, for not agreeing with their views and interpretations. I developed a real antipathy towards that method of silencing opponents." --LaAeterna https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb65.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Pat Kohli" wrote in message news:3AB2AA7D.70B7B5D3@ameritel.net... > > > Frederick Glaysher wrote: > > > FYI > > > > ----- > > www.Beliefnet.com Rules of Conduct: > > "posts that malign, vilify, defame, abuse, harass, or threaten others" > > > > The person below continues to malign the integrity > > of my belief in the bahai faith by referring to me as > > a "covenant breaker," a kind of heretic, if you will, > > and falsely stating I am not a member of the bahai faith. > > > > My bahai membership card may be found on my bahai website. > > > > I warned him more than a week ago that I would not > > tolerant such vilification and harassment. > > > > I would appreciate it if you ask him to cease abusing me. > > > > Frederick Glaysher > > www.fglaysher.com > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > Bruce advised the readers that you are not a Baha'i; this is a simple matter of > fact which has been repeatedly tested - your credentials, as copied on your web > site, are no good. The fact that you repeatedly post messages to the effect > that you are a Baha'i in Perfectly Good Standing should suggest to all readers > that you are apparently not and that is why you insist on making an issue of it. > > The fact that you have falsely accused Bruce of accusing you of being a > "covenant breaker" clearly indicates your malicious manner of abuse on > beliefnet. I shall advise the sysadmin. > > Carry on. > > - Pat > kohli@ameritel.net > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:25 PM Subject: BeliefNet - Interesting new thread.... Here's one of my messages: FGLAYSHER 3/21/01 5:18 PM 10 out of 10 Karen, Thank you for your previous message. I'm so glad to hear someone is sueing the NSA! And for fraud! My, does THAT shoe fit.... Oh, must there ever be a tantalizing story behind that lady's ire.... How I hope someday she'll share it. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Martha Ainsworth[SMTP:mainsworth@staff.beliefnet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:12 AM To: 'Frederick Glaysher' Subject: RE: fglaysher, your posts on Beliefnet We are taking steps to remedy the situation with all parties concerned. Thanks for your cooperation. Martha Ainsworth Beliefnet Community Producer mainsworth@staff.beliefnet.com https://www.beliefnet.com > -----Original Message----- > From: FG [mailto:FG@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:14 PM > To: Martha Ainsworth > Subject: Re: fglaysher, your posts on Beliefnet > > > Dear Ms. Ainsworth, > > Thank you for making me aware of the Rules of Conduct. > I shall follow them. > > Since I have your attention, let me ask you if anything has been > done about the person I complained about who maligned, vilified, > defamed, abused, and harassed me? I refer, of course, to the > following item from the Rules of Conduct: "posts that malign, vilify, > defame, abuse, harass, or threaten others." Please note he has > repeatedly posted the same message. I included two of them below. > > Thank you in advance for reassuring me Beliefnet is fair in its > treatment of people, something many among my fellow Bahais > are not.... > > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > --------- > MY MESSAGE TO BELIEFNET: > > www.Beliefnet.com Rules of Conduct: > "posts that malign, vilify, defame, abuse, harass, or threaten others" > > > The person below continues to malign the integrity > of my belief in the bahai faith by referring to me as > a "covenant breaker," a kind of heretic, if you will, > and falsely stating I am not a member of the bahai faith. > > My bahai membership card may be found on my bahai website. > > I warned him more than a week ago that I would not > tolerant such vilification and harassment. > > I would appreciate it if you ask him to cease abusing me. > > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > ------------ > bruce-l > 3/10/01 6:11 PM 2 out of 9 > > > NOTICE! > > All individuals reading here should be warned that Glaysher > and Cole are not > Baha'is, and have essentially made a profession of attacking > the Baha'i > Faith generally and its elected institutions in particular. > > I will not go into the apparent reasons for these tirades > because I don't > want to be guilty of backbiting, but I do have statements > from both the > Baha'i Universal House of Justice and a knowledgeable Baha'i where the > activities of these individuals have been addressed in more > detail. Those > readers wanting to see these should contact me and give an > email address. > > And their terminology is also misleading: there is no such > dichotomy as > "liberal" or "fundamentalist" Baha'is: _all_ Baha'is abide by > the Covenant > of Baha'u'llah, which expressly establishes our institutions > and how they > operate. So to the extent these individuals reject all this, > they are not > Baha'is, pure and simple. That's their right, but there seems to be a > preference to allow readers to mistake them for Baha'i when > they're not. > > Bruce > > > > > "Frederick Glaysher" wrote in message > news:98l3sl$2cs2l$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > The original posts by Bruce may be found at > > https://www.beliefnet.com discussion boards, > > specifically the one titled Baha'i Faith Challenge & Critique. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > www.fglaysher.com > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > > -------- > > 3/10/01 7:00 PM 2 out of 2 > > > > > > FG>I have been a member of the Bahai faith since 1976. > > > > Yeah, right! > > > > And what he's _not_ telling you is that he resigned years > ago, and has > been > > attacking the Baha'i Covenant and the administration it > established ever > > since. > > > > Indeed, if i'm not mistaken, he left the Faith rather than obey its > > Covenant. > > > > He is thus _not_ a Baha'i, and hasn't been one for many > years--nor are the > > others working with him against the Faith. > > > > alert people may wish to consider why he didn't tell you this. > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > 3/10/01 6:11 PM 2 out of 2 > > > > > > NOTICE! > > > > All individuals reading here should be warned that Glaysher > and Cole are > not > > Baha'is, and have essentially made a profession of > attacking the Baha'i > > Faith generally and its elected institutions in particular. > > > > I will not go into the apparent reasons for these tirades > because I don't > > want to be guilty of backbiting, but I do have statements > from both the > > Baha'i Universal House of Justice and a knowledgeable > Baha'i where the > > activities of these individuals have been addressed in more > detail. Those > > readers wanting to see these should contact me and give an > email address. > > > > And their terminology is also misleading: there is no such > dichotomy as > > "liberal" or "fundamentalist" Baha'is: _all_ Baha'is abide > by the Covenant > > of Baha'u'llah, which expressly establishes our > institutions and how they > > operate. So to the extent these individuals reject all > this, they are not > > Baha'is, pure and simple. That's their right, but there > seems to be a > > preference to allow readers to mistake them for Baha'i when > they're not. > > > > Bruce > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martha Ainsworth" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 3:13 PM > Subject: fglaysher, your posts on Beliefnet > > > > Dear Beliefnet member fglaysher, > > > > I am writing to you with concerns about your posts on > Beliefnet. As you know we > > recently removed several of your posts that were in > violation of the Beliefnet > > Rules of Conduct, to which you agreed when you registered > as a member of > > Beliefnet. Spamming -- repeating a post in more than one > place -- is a > > violation of the community's rules. We also ask members > not to repeatedly post > > URLs. It's fine for you to mention your personal website > once or twice, but not > > more than that. Repetition of posts and URLs is disruptive > to conversations in > > our community. > > > > Please understand that we think it's perfectly fine for you > to express your > > views on Beliefnet. We welcome all kinds of opinions, pro > and con, and in fact > > we have created areas where people are encouraged to post > controversial and > > provocative views about religions and religious issues. I > encourage you to > > express your ideas on Beliefnet - within the limits of the > Beliefnet Rules of > > Conduct. If you need to refer to them, you can find them here: > > https://www.beliefnet.com/about/rules.asp > > > > We look forward to your continued participation on Beliefnet. > > > > Martha Ainsworth > > Beliefnet Community Producer > > mainsworth@staff.beliefnet.com > > https://www.beliefnet.com > > > > > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:f_glaysher] Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists After over four years of observing the tactics of bahai fundamentalists, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always smear and attack the individual. 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for non-bahais that the individual is unbalanced, aberrant, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject. 5. Shift to the past and argue over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses "review" to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to disucss anything with them is simple a waste of time and energy. I have many interests in life. Documenting bahai fundamentalism is only one of them. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts.They're intended for the uninformed.... And they will be staying on the newsgroups I choose as long as bahai censorship and deceit continue. It should be evident to informed people that fundamentalists desire to suppress all knowledge of their suppression and coercion of bahais and non-bahais over the last decade or more now. I am only interested in preserving the record of what bahai fundamentalists have done. Others may read it and decide for themselves. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how low bahai fanatics have been willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai webpages.... It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so long..... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: FG[SMTP:f_glaysher] Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 9:21 AM Subject: How to Improve Your bahai Newsgroup Experience Assuming you use IE5, click on Tools, then Message Rules, followed by News. Add for talk.religion.bahai and for alt.religion.bahai the email addresses or names of the bahai fundamentalists and fanatics of your choice: smaneck@aol.com dfiorito@my-deja.com rlittle95@my-deja.com kohliCUT@ameritel.net postmaster@ishop-usa.com brieze_way@nospam.hotmail.com patk9018@my-deja.com RSSchaut@email.msn.NOSPAMcom saman@ticnet.com mee@tsn.cc roger@rreini.com dr.walker@fsandp.remove.com Click on Apply Now. Further word of advice based on over three and a half years online: Also add them to Blocked Senders List. There are others you might want to add.... One of the best things about IE5 is that it is so easy to add fundamentalists as they show up or adopt false identities.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: FG[SMTP:f_glaysher] Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing.... Despite the slander of many fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, I have been a member of the bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my main bahai page. And I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. The reason the uhj allows and encourages fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to backbite and slander me on talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai, AOL, and elsewhere may be discovered in the three messages below: To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997 https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm To the Universal House of Justice - July 24, 1998 https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/UHJ72498.htm To uhj 12-10-1999 https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/uhj12-10-99.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: FG[SMTP:f_glaysher] Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: International Bahai Community FYI ----- Original Message ----- From: "" bahai < - Lying to United Nations & World - No. 1 As an accredited participant, I attended the United Nations Millennium Forum of civil society organizations from May 22-26, 2000. Some may be interested in knowing that bahais were central to the event which produced a report to advise heads of state to the Millennium Summit September 6-8, 2000 at the United Nations - the largest gathering of so many national heads of state since WW II. "The final edited version of the "We the Peoples Millennium Forum Declaration and Agenda for Action" has now been posted to the Forum's Website. This version includes ... several final additions that were adopted by the Forum on Friday, 26 May 2000 during its final session." It can be found through links at: https://www.millenniumforum.org as well as directly at: https://www.millenniumforum.org/html/papers/mfd26May.htm The uhj, in it's ridvan [April] 2000 message, jubilantly celebrated their increase of power, control, and influence at the United Nations: "It must be a source of great satisfaction to Baha'is everywhere that the Baha'i International Community as an NGO representing a cross-section of humankind has won such trust as a unifying agent in major discussions shaping the future of humankind. Our principal representative at the United Nations was appointed to co-chair the Committee on Non-Governmental Organizations, which was established by the Economic and Social Council--a position that is giving the Baha'i International Community a leading role in the organization of the Millennium Forum. This gathering, called by UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan and scheduled to be held in May, will give organizations of civil society an opportunity to formulate views and recommendations on global issues which will be taken up at the subsequent Millennium Summit in September of this year to be attendedby heads of state and government." https://www.bahai-library.org/published.uhj/ridvan/index.html It was quite an experience hearing Techeste Ahderom, the bahai representative and Forum co-chair, in the UN General Assembly Hall, urging hypocritically the importance of strengthening human rights throughout the world.... He further deceived the assembled leaders at the Millennium Summit on September 8th when he addressed them on behalf of the NGO community pretending to support human rights and democratic values that neither he nor the bahai "administration" respect. See below. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- To: Millennium Forum Discussion Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [MFDiscuss] Statement of the Millennium Forum to the Millennium Summit > Professor Juan Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan, > observes in the conclusion of his book Modernity and the Millennium > (Columbia University Press, 1998): > > "Some contemporary leaders of the Baha'i Faith have given answers > increasingly similar to those of fundamentalists, stressing scriptural > literalism, patriarchy, theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and > denying key democratic values. While the values of the nineteenth-century > Baha'i movement, which was far more tolerant, continue to exist as a > minority view, by the late 1990s a different set of emphases prevailed" > (196). > > Cole himself and many others have suffered at the hands of Baha'i > fundamentalists who hide behind putatively liberal activities, > such as at the United Nations: > > "The rise of academic Baha'i scholarship has caused tension in the > community, whose present-day leadership tends to be fundamentalist and > antiliberal in orientation, and this has led to pressure on a number of> prominent academics to resign or dissociate themselves from the movement" > Cole (201). > > These same forces of fundamentalist orthodoxy are evident on > talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai on Usenet for impartial viewers > to witness. They will be evident to all perceptive observers of whatever > forum Bahais may be trying to control and influence. Both my and Cole's > Bahai websites provide essential documentation along these lines. > > It should be noted that the Universal House of Justice has actively worked > through the BCCA (Bahai Computer and Communications Association) to suppress all links to websites with other than its own "comprehensive" point of view on such major portals as Yahoo.com, Excite.com, and other search engines. > The UHJ has gone even further by advising Bahais to remove any link > whatsoever to Professor Cole's website. See his comments along these lines: > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm > And his article The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997: > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > As a Bahai since 1976, I myself have always found especially repulsive the > manner in which Bahai fundamentalists attempt to manipulate the institutions > and leaders of government, the United Nations, and public opinion, while > pretending to values they deride in private or at Bahai-only meetings. > > I find it distressing that this forum is being used for such purposes with > an uninformed audience. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > >From: brad@oc.mv.com > >To: MFNews@egroups.com > >Subject: [MFNews] Statement of the Millennium Forum to the Millennium > >Summit > >Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:55:09 -0000 > > > >> >It has been requested that we post the full statement of Millennium > >Forum Co-Chair Techeste Ahderom to this group. It follows: > > > >THE MILLENNIUM SUMMIT > > > >8 September 2000 > > > > > >Afternoon Plenary -- Friday, 8 September 2000 > > > >Statement of Techeste Ahderom > >Co-Chair, The Millennium Forum > > > > > > > >Madam and Mr. Co-Chairs, Distinguished Heads of State and Government, > >Mr. Secretary-General, Excellencies, > > > > > >Last May, representatives of civil society and non-governmental > >organizations from all over the world gathered in this great hall to > >consult about humanity's common future and, particularly, about > >the > >role of the United Nations in the 21st Century. > > > >The meeting was called the Millennium Forum, and, in light of the > >wide ranging concerns of its participants, the geographic reach they > >embodied -- including broad representation from developing countries - > >- and the depth and breath of the organizations they represented, it > >was one of the most diverse -- and significant -- gatherings of civil > >society organizations ever held. > > > >The Forum was significant for its attempt to accelerate the process > >among NGOs of networking and coalition building across issue areas > >that has proved to be such a powerful force for change and social > >action in today's world. The issues we considered included how to > >establish a just and lasting peace; how to eradicate poverty; how to > >set humanity on a path of sustainable development while protecting > >our shared environment; how to see that human rights everywhere are > >upheld -- at all times, by all nations; and how to face up to the > >urgent challenges of globalization. > > > >In the end, despite our great diversity, we successfully agreed on a > >powerfully worded "Declaration and Agenda for Action." It offers > >a > >bold vision for humanity's future and outlines a series of concrete> >steps that the United Nations, governments, and members of civil > >society themselves can take to address the global problems facing > >humanity today. > > > >After hearing your speeches here over the last three days, I must say > >that our vision and plan of action are consonant with much of what > >has been said here. > > > >I am personally heartened by this and feel that this historic Summit > >may well be remembered as having opened the door to a long-awaited > >era of peace, justice and prosperity for all humanity. This new era > >will, of course, require concrete deeds and not just words. > > > >We in civil society stand ready to work with you and your > >governments, side by side, in a strong new partnership to create this > >new world. At the same time, civil society also stands ready to hold > >you to your commitments if you do not deliver on your words. > > > >Throughout history, from the abolition of slavery to the recognition > >of the equality of women and men, most great social movements have > >begun not with governments but with ordinary people. > > > >Even the idea of creating an international organization to end war > >and establish a permanent peace originated with civil society. Before > >the outbreak of the First World War, the leaders of a number of > >international NGOs argued for the establishment of a "Commonwealth of > >Nations" or "League of Nations" in which all states would band > >together in collective security. These same organizations actively > >supported the work of the League of Nations in the late 1920's. > > > >In 1945, civil society again played an important role in shaping many > >of the key articles found in the Charter of the United Nations, > >especially in the area of human rights. > > > >More recently, NGOs have played a leading role in shaping and > >supporting an International Criminal Court, in the movement for debt > >cancellation, and in the International Campaign to Ban Landmines. > >Likewise, NGOs have led in creating such partnerships with the UN and > >governments as with the NGO Steering Committee for the Commission on > >Sustainable Development. > > > >On a number of occasions, Secretary General Kofi Annan has said that > >civil society participation in and partnership with the United > >Nations is not an "option," but a "necessity." > > > >We appreciate his efforts to facilitate effective partnership with> >civil society at the United Nations. We thank him especially for > >opening the UN to the Millennium Forum last May. As many of you know, > >the idea for our Forum essentially originated with Mr. Annan some > >three years ago when he called for a "companion People's Assembly" to > >this Summit. And we thank Mr. Annan for making the Millennium Forum > >Declaration available to this Summit as a UN document. > > > >The Millennium Forum itself grew out of long-established NGO > >committees and networks. Planning began with the Conference on Non- > >Governmental Organizations (CONGO), and included the UN DPI/NGO > >Executive Committee. We sought to build upon an impressive series of > >global NGO gatherings held last year, such as the Hague Appeal for > >Peace, the Seoul International Conference of NGOs, World Civil > >Society Conference, and the Young People's Millennium Assembly, > >as > >well as all of the great global NGO forums held in parallel with the > >major United Nations conferences of the last decade, including Earth > >Summit, the Beijing Women's Conference, and the Social Summit, among > >others. > > > >We ask that you review carefully our Millennium Forum Declaration. I > >think you'll find that, for the most part, we are simply calling on > >governments to live up to the commitments and the principles that > >they agreed to in the great global conferences of the 1990s. We are > >also seeking increased NGO access to the UN General Assembly and its > >main committees. > > > >Allow me to give you a few highlights of what the Forum called for in > >its Declaration. > > > >The Forum's participants believe that, when a billion people go > >to > >bed hungry, it is a gross violation of human rights. The Declaration > >calls for immediate debt cancellation. It also calls for a > >"Global > >Poverty Eradication Fund," aimed at offering the poor access to > >credit. > > > >On globalization, the Forum took the view that, while it > >offers "significant opportunities for people to connect, share > >and > >learn from each other," in its currently unregulated form it > >increases "inequities between and within countries, undermines > >local > >traditions and cultures, and escalates disparities between rich and > >poor, thereby marginalizing large numbers of people in urban and> >rural areas." > > > >The Declaration urges governments to make serious "commitments to > >restructure the global financial architecture based on principles of > >equity, transparency, accountability, and democracy.," > >stating > >clearly that the United Nations should be the preeminent > >international organization overseeing the World Bank, the IMF and the > >WTO. > > > >The Declaration also calls for a greatly strengthened and > >democratized United Nations, the most important global institution in > >the world today -- and the only one currently capable of providing > >the international framework and coordination needed to address the > >critical challenges ahead. > > > >Specifically, the Forum called for a strengthened peacekeeping > >regime, with the establishment of permanent police and peacekeeping > >forces. It also calls for a reformed Security Council, invigorated > >through an enlarged membership, more democratic procedures, and > >eventual elimination of the veto. It also urges the formulation of a > >draft proposal for global disarmament, to be discussed in a Special > >Session of the General Assembly. > > > >In this day of global interdependence, a much strengthened United > >Nations is our best protection against global calamity, be it > >economic, environmental, the spread of a new epidemic or a major new > >conflict. > > > >To conclude, the Millennium Forum Declaration seeks to articulate the > >hopes and aspirations of the peoples of the world. As its opening > >paragraphs state: > > > >"Our vision is of a world that is human-centered and genuinely > >democratic, where all human beings are full participants and > >determine their own destinies. In our vision we are one human family, > >in all our diversity, living on one common homeland and sharing a > >just, sustainable and peaceful world, guided by universal principles > >of democracy, equality, inclusion, voluntarism, non-discrimination > >and participation by all persons.." > > > >Thank you for your attention. > > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:f_glaysher] Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 9:27 AM Subject: > bahai < - Lying to United Nations & World - No. 2 All the more true now after the performance of Techeste Ahderom at the Millennium Forum and Summit in May and September 2000: The uhj in "The Turning Point for All Nations," a 1997 policy piece aimed at the United Nations, presented to many prominent people in several different governments, hypocritically writes, "The minimum standards for conduct by a government towards its people have been well established in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and subsequent international covenants, collectively referred to as the International Bill of Human Rights." "Without an unshakable commitment to regular and periodic elections with universal participation by secret ballot, to ***freedom of expression*** and to other such ***human rights***, a member state stands in the way of the active and intelligent participation of the vast majority of its population in the affairs of its own communities." "We propose that there should be ***consequences*** for member states that violate these standards. Similarly, nations seeking recognition should be denied membership until they openly espouse these standards or make recognizable efforts to move in that direction." Yet the truth is that uhj has hypocritically violated the human rights of many, many Bahais, often intellectuals who have candidly expressed their views, often in the context of their studies and research, driving them out of the Bahai faith or ostracizing them, including academics in major American universities. It has done so without any ***consequences*** whatsoever, with impunity. The UN and other official government bodies should at least hold it accountable, instead of always being deceived by Bahai public relations people every time there is a crisis in Iran. The uhj continues its hypocrisy by saying "Far from encouraging the punitive spirit that has often masqueraded under its name in past ages, justice is the practical expression of awareness that, in the achievement of human progress, the interests of the individual and those of society are inextricably linked. To the extent that justice becomes a guiding concern of human interaction, a ***consultative climate*** is encouraged that permits options to be examined dispassionately and appropriate courses of action selected. In such a climate the perennial tendencies toward manipulation and partisanship are farless likely to deflect the decision-making process." It is the uhj itself that has poisoned the climate of the Bahai faiththrough suppression and tyranny and a pervasive ***punitive spirit*** that canonly tolerate its own fundamentalist voice. Many such passages of hypocrisy exist in the documents the uhj generates for release to the UN and various governments and public officials. Full text of "The Turning Point for All Nations" may be found at https://home.vicnet.net.au/~bahai/turning.html Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses other related human rights issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 7:23 AM Subject: Re: Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists > This sounds like ANY fundamentalism from my vantage point. Good > observations, thank you. It is a waste of time to engage in discussion and > expect rational conduct. While my obersvations on bahai fundamentalism may equally apply to some extremists in other religions, I do believe the fanatics among my fellow bahais have perfected these techniques.... You might find interesting the detailed observations by other bahais at The Bahai Technique ---- Essential Reading https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "mbnelms" Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:58 AM Subject: Re: Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists > > After over four years of observing the tactics of > > bahai fundamentalists, I've learnt a few things about > > the way they operate: > > > > 1. Always smear and attack the individual. > > > > 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. > > > > 3. Work together to create the perception for non-bahais > > that the individual is unbalanced, aberrant, etc.... > > > > 4. Change or ignore the subject. > > > > 5. Shift to the past and argue over who said what, when, where, > > how, etc.... > > > > > This sounds like ANY fundamentalism from my vantage point. Good > observations, thank you. It is a waste of time to engage in discussion and > expect rational conduct. > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 7:44 AM Subject: Re: Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists Not being capable of predicting the future, I don't share your optimism.... Hence I believe it's best to draw a revealing electronic line across cyberspace here and now. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Nima Hazini" wrote in message news:99n9nj$hsh$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:99n8ri$1ru4q$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > >While my obersvations on bahai fundamentalism may equally apply > >to some extremists in other religions, I do believe the fanatics among > >my fellow bahais have perfected these techniques.... > > That's because you've probably never dealt with Chrisitian or Islamic > fundamentalists on any prolonged level. You have not seen blind, mindless > fanaticism and hypocritical disenguinity as that exhibited by fundamentalist > Muslims or Chrisitians. The Baha'i fundamentalists still have much, much to > learn from those looney toons. They are still baby fundamentalists as > compared to them. The day you see Baha'is blowing up shrines and ancient > statues, and hauling people into mass graves, then one can safely say they > have reached the perfection of their fanaticsm and fundamentalism. Today > it's merely on the level of ideology. Tomorrow, who knows, it might be more. > But, thankfully, I am optimistic that that day will never come. > > Trust me on this one ;-) > > cheers, > Nima > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists I would not go so far as to say "nipped in the bud." Some very unpleasant crimes, misrepresentations, distortions, coercions, suppressions, duplicities, etc., have already been committed by bahai fundamentalists, who show no sign, whatsoever, of having changed their ways. Quite the contrary, every indication is that their malice and disceptions only continue to worsen, as the list of their victims grows. Given such an atomsphere, created by the uhj, more reprehensible acts by bahai fundamentalists can only be expected. I don't believe it's fair to use Islam to make the worst elements in the bahai administration appear better than what they are.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Nima Hazini" wrote in message news:99nd3f$itd$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > Well, yeah...The fact that Baha'i fundamentalism has been seriously exposed > publically in cyberspace these past few years means that any potential for > those mass graves and blown up statues and shrines has already been > seriously nipped in the bud. Give yourself some credit here. > > But, still, the viciousness and malice of Islamic fundamentalists is light > years ahead of that of Baha'is. > > cheers, > Nima > > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:99na2k$1uvk4$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > Not being capable of predicting the future, I don't > share your optimism.... Hence I believe it's best > to draw a revealing electronic line across cyberspace > here and now. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > "Nima Hazini" wrote in message > news:99n9nj$hsh$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > > > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > > news:99n8ri$1ru4q$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > > > >While my obersvations on bahai fundamentalism may equally apply > > >to some extremists in other religions, I do believe the fanatics among > > >my fellow bahais have perfected these techniques.... > > > > That's because you've probably never dealt with Chrisitian or Islamic > > fundamentalists on any prolonged level. You have not seen blind, mindless > > fanaticism and hypocritical disenguinity as that exhibited by > fundamentalist > > Muslims or Chrisitians. The Baha'i fundamentalists still have much, much > to > > learn from those looney toons. They are still baby fundamentalists as > > compared to them. The day you see Baha'is blowing up shrines and ancient > > statues, and hauling people into mass graves, then one can safely say they > > have reached the perfection of their fanaticsm and fundamentalism. Today > > it's merely on the level of ideology. Tomorrow, who knows, it might be > more. > > But, thankfully, I am optimistic that that day will never come. > > > > Trust me on this one ;-) > > > > cheers, > > Nima > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Nima Hazini[SMTP:lotusapt@wxc.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:49 AM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Fw: lawsuit by Baha'is in Albuquerque against LSA and NSA Yorgos Marinakis, Ph SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) and for MINORITY ) MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) No. CV 2001-01978 ) ) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and ) THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE ) BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, ) NEW MEXICO, a non-profit ) corporation, and the ) NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY ) OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF THE ) UNITED STATES, ) an Illinois Corporation, ) ) Defendants. ) VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD, LIBEL, BREACH OF CORPORATE DUTIES, AND DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF COMES NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record, Yorgos D. Marinakis, and for their Complaint states as follows: INTRODUCTION 1. Plaintiffs file this shareholder or member derivative suit against: - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly, or LSA), - their Trustees, and - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly, or NSA), with whom the Local Spiritual Assembly and its Trustees have privity. 2. Plaintiffs allege that Trustees breached their duties as corporate officers. 3. Plaintiffs allege that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of deciding appeals owed to Plaintiffs. 4. Plaintiffs allege that the literature review policies of the Local Spiritual Assembly and the National Spiritual Assembly, which lie in privity, unlawfully prevent shareholders from their right to communicate with other shareholders. 5. Plaintiffs allege that Defendants failed to execute their duties under their corporate by-laws. PARTIES 6. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn was a shareholder or member of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the time of the incidents stated in this Complaint, and she continues to be a member. 7. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly) is a New Mexico non-profit corporation. Shareholder-members may appeal decisions by the Local Spiritual Assembly to the National Spiritual Assembly. 8. The Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Trustees) individually reside in Bernalillo County, New Mexico, as a condition of their Trusteeship. Trustees are Kambiz Victory, Ok-Sun and John McHenry, Manijeh Kavelin, Nelson Sapad, Harry and Sondra Day, Owen Creightney, and Carol Caldwell. Jenny Beery was a Trustee during the time of many of these incidents. 9. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly) is incorporated in and has its principal place of business in Illinois. FACTS 10. The Bahá'í have no clergy. Instead, each community in the Bahá'í Faith annually elects nine Trustees or a "Local Spiritual Assembly," which acts as an agent or subsidiary of the National Spiritual Assembly. Each National Spiritual Assembly answers to the supreme Bahá'í body, The Universal House of Justice. The Universal House of Justice established the Continental Board of Counsellors (sic) to assist them, and the Countinental Board of Counsellors further has the Auxiliary Board to assist them. 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. 12. Although Plaintiffs have consistently complied with Defendant Trustees' demands, they have also consistently filed complaints against them with the National and International Bahá'í authorities. This has enraged the Defendant Trustees. 13. Defendant Trustees have never made specific accusations or informed Plaintiffs of wrongdoing, other than vague statements such as "you have issues with the Spiritual Assembly." 14. Therefore, deep-seated animosities and distrust have arisen between Plaintiffs and the Trustees, which are incapable of resolution and thereby present an irreconcilable barrier to the ability of the corporation to function as is. 15. Plaintiffs' reasonable expectations that they would be able to participate in the management and activities of their corporation, as minority shareholders, have been thwarted since at least 1995. 16. Article IV of the LSA by-laws provides that the LSA shall compose differences and disagreements among members of the community. Article VII, section 9 of the NSA by-laws provides that any member of a Bahá'í community may appeal from a decision of his LSA to the NSA. Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an inaccurate and inequitable manner. 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the corporate books. 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their financial books. Defendants refused. 20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow named Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the Plaintiff deemed in bad faith. Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. Electioneering 22. At the Annual Meeting Feast of 1999, Defendant Trustees fraudulently rigged the election of Trustee Nelson Sapad by calling for applause for him three times prior to an election of corporate officers. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 23. Defendant Trustees or their agents fraudulently rigged the election of Harry and Sondra Day, by introducing them and calling for applause moments before an election of corporate officers. 24. Trustees do not ensure secret balloting at the Annual Meeting Feast. The usual practice is not to use a ballot box, but for members to lay their ballots on a plate or in a basket in plain sight of the election tellers. Ms. Buchhorn appealed to Brent Poirier on at least one election. Mr. Poirier responded by handling the collection basket himself. 25. In the member newsletter and prior to the annual election and during the Annual Meeting Feast, Trustees have used scriptural quotes to draw attention to persons serving on certain committees. Fraudulent and Oppressive Behavior Relating to the TV Show "Spiritual Reality" 26. Plaintiffs conceptualized and produced a TV show named "Spiritual Reality." After 100 showings, during which Defendant Trustees only complimented Plaintiffs, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, mandated major changes in the show. Plaintiffs complied and appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 27. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiffs to "temporarily postpone" their television show, "Spiritual Reality." Plaintiff complied, and Defendants never specifically informed Plaintiffs what they had done to precipitate the arbitrary and capricious termination. The effect of this order, namely the termination of the TV show, violated the right of shareholders to communicate with other shareholders. 28. Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences stated that the reasons for termination would be fully discussed at a later meeting, at which meeting those reasons were never discussed. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory, employee of channel 41, knew or should have known that a television program cannot be "temporarily postponed." Plaintiffs appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 29. Defendant Kambiz Victory, a Trustee, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, told named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn in regards to her television show that "Your teaching can have no effect because you are not in unity with the Spiritual Assembly." Defendant knew that Ms. Buchhorn's television show brought in 15% of the information requests during an unrelated major regional advertising campaign by Defendants. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 30. Defendant Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences set-up Plaintiffs to a "confession" of their animosity towards Defendant Trustees. Named Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Other Oppression 31. As an act of individual initiative, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn organized a Bahá'í parade float for several years for the New Mexico State Fair Parade. In 2000, Defendant Trustees convened a task force to organize the parade float for that year. On August 22, 2000, approximately 19 days before the parade, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, instructed Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to terminate her parade float activities. A false reason for this termination was published in the membership newsletter by Defendant Trustees, causing Plaintiff embarrassment. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 32. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to receive instruction on the Bahá'í Covenant. Plaintiff complied and attended that "instruction," which in fact consisted of three (3) hours of interrogation by Trustee Owen Creightney, and John and Ok-Sun McHenry. It became apparent at this meeting that Trustee Creightney had lied to the Trustees in order to oppress named Plaintiff. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 33. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to resign from the Bahá'í gospel choir. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 34. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, undermined named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's Saturday Night Coffee House and in effect stopped her Coffee House. Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to these circumstances. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 35. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, have ordered numerous Bahá'ís to shun Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn. 36. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory told a Plaintiff "I am the voice of God in this community." Libel 37. Defendant Trustees knowingly published false and defamatory information about Plaintiffs in the Albuquerque Bahá'í newsletter, specifically relating to the parade banner. Unlawful Prevention of Communication between Shareholders 38. Defendant National Spiritual Assembly has the policy that Local Spiritual Assemblies are responsible for reviewing pamphlets and newsletters and materials that mention the Faith such as songs, play scripts, souvenir items, and greeting cards, intended for publication or distribution within their communities, whereas the National Spiritual Assembly is responsible for review of those same materials intended for nationwide publication. CAUSES OF ACTION Count I 39. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 40. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly acted and continue to act fraudulently towards the Plaintiffs. 41. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count II 42. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 43. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly libeled the named Plaintiff. 44. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count III 45. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 46. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in good faith, which failure constitutes fraud. 47. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IV 48. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporates all previous paragraphs. 49. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act with the care an ordinary prudent person in like position would exercise under similar circumstances, which failure constitute fraud. 50. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count V 51. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 52. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in a manner they reasonably believe to be in the best interests of the corporation and its members, which failure constitutes fraud. 53. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VI 54. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 55. The Trustees have repeatedly failed their duty to compose differences and disagreements with themselves and the members, in violation of their by-laws, which failure constitutes fraud. 56. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VII 57. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 58. The National Spiritual Assembly has repeatedly failed their duty to hear appeals from Plaintiffs, in violation of their by-laws. 59. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VIII 60. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 61. The literature review policies of the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies violate the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 62. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IX 63. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 64. The practice of the Local Spiritual Assembly to direct members not to speak about their dealings with the LSA with other corporate members violates the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 65. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. JUDICIAL RELIEF WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiffs request that this Court: 1. Declare that the Trustees acted fraudulently towards Plaintiffs; 2. Declare that Trustees libeled Plaintiffs; 3. Declare that the Trustees breached their corporate duties towards Plaintiffs; 4. Remove the Trustees from their positions and enjoin them from serving in official Bahá'ís capacities for nineteen (19) years; 5. Remove the LSA Directors who are also Trustees; 6. Declare that the Local Spiritual Assembly violated members' rights to inspect corporate books and records; 7. Compel Defendant LSA to retain an independent certified public accountant to audit the books for the last two years; 8. Declare that Defendant LSA violated their corporate by-laws by failing to compose differences and disagreements among members of the community; 6. Declare that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of hearing Plaintiffs' appeals; 7. Declare that the literature review policies of the Bahá'ís violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 8. Enjoin Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and Local Spiritual Assembly from enforcing their literature review policy; 9. Declare that the secrecy practices of the Local Spiritual Assembly violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 10. Enjoin Defendant Local Spiritual Assembly from continuing their secrecy practices; 11. Award compensatory damages from Defendants to Plaintiffs; 12. Award attorney's fees and costs to Plaintiffs; 13. Any other relief this Court deems appropriate. Respectfully submitted, ___________________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) Named Plaintiff's Verification STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss. COUNTY OF BERNALILLO) COMES NOW Deborah Buchhorn, and being duly sworn, states as follows: 1. I have read and understood the contents of this Complaint. 2. I have personal knowledge of the facts stated herein. 3. I attest to and verify their truth and accuracy. __________________________ DEBORAH BUCHHORN SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me this __ day of ______, 2001. ________________________ Notary Public My Commission Expires: _________________ ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:32 AM Subject: REVISED - 21,000+ hits - approaching more hits than bahais in the USA - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience For those who haven't visited my website ever, or for some time, I've revised much of my bahai website during the last few months. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 7:46 AM Subject: Re: Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists "Nima Hazini" wrote > Gee, Pat, he really pushes your buttons doesn't he *grin*?! Apparently life is quite frustrating for fundamentalists who know the true interpretation everybody else should believe.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Nima Hazini[SMTP:lotusapt@wxc.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:54 AM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Legal Defense Fund Fred, The legal defense fund is currently in the works. Contact Dermod for the details. FYI in about a month or so I'll be finalizing my own defamation suit against the Australian NSA for filing - these things take longer here because you have to go through several tiers, gets barristers expert opinions, etc. I'll keep you posted once its launched. I've talked to a couple of media people here and they've expressed interest in the story. Also, the Cult Information and Awareness Centre in Brisbane will be following my case closely and there's a chance the Baha'is will declared a bona fide cult by this group before the year is out. Keep this information under the wraps for now and get ahold of Dermod (he's also solidly working the UK angle). I'll keep you posted. There's a lot in the works right now - everywhere. The Albuquerque case - my old community in the US - came out of the blue. But I saw it coming for years. Have you noticed quite the number of people coming out of the woodwork lately? cheers, Nima ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Henry" Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:03 PM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai institutions for FRAUD Perhaps some sort of legal defense fund should be created for vicitms of the fundamentalists. Often people have excellent cases but not the where-with-all to pursue justice, the best beloved of all things in His sight.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Nima Hazini" wrote in message news:99sgtg$74p$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > The clincher here - which shows how smart this attorney is - is that he's > pursuing the matter based on laws of incorporation and members rights > therein. While Baha'i fundamentalists lately have been hiding behind the red > herring of "the Baha'i faith is a voluntary organization" argument, they > would be hard pressed to argue this one to a judge where the law as spelled > out in this specific case is concerned. If a judge found that a board of > trustees violated their own bylaws and rules in treating incorporated > members, she could rule very decisively against the board of trustees, and I > suspect that should this attorney have enough testimony and evidence to that > effect, it could very well happen. > > It seems that Shoghi Effendi's insistance in having the Baha'i faith > incorporated as an organization is finally coming back to haunt, at least, > this generation of Baha'i leadership. One could say that the AO has finally > been put on notice. Of course, I say this is all for the good of the Baha'is > themselves, part of the process of helping the maturation of their > administrative order and all. May there be more lawsuits - and there will - > to help expedite this process along. > > cheers, > Nima > > > wrote in message news:3ac1a554.30228214@news.aros.net... > > I have seen many suits being an assitant to a para legal, and it is no > worse than most, and if the facts are true, it should prove very > interesting. > > Plus as I wrote on another site, this can be expected when as Shoghi > Effendi stated the administration has been "multilated." > > > > On 28 Mar 2001 05:06:35 GMT, smaneck@aol.com (Susan Maneck ) wrote: > > >>Yorgos D. Marinakis > >>Attorney for Plaintiffs > >>P.O. Box 45923 > >>Rio Rancho, NM 87174 > > > >An actual lawyer wrote this mishmash? It doesn't even make any sense! > > > >"And we were gathered in one place, a generation lost in space, with no > time > >left to start again . . " > >Don McLean's American Pie > >https://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/ > > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:41 AM Subject: Re: Heart of the Baha'i Faith Discussion Group Announces Formation [Bahai] "Psychiatrist cuts deal on sex assault charges" 4/94 re Dr. Danesh https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/danesh.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message news:99rg4b$231$1@plutonium.btinternet.com... > > "Susan Maneck " wrote in message > news:20010324215253.13258.00001215@ng-fi1.aol.com... > > > > > >Does anybody know what Jensen is up to these days? Is he still alive and > > >kicking? > > > > No. The following is something I got a hold of on the internet some years > ago, > > immediately following Doc Jensen's death. I understand it is written by > ex-wife > > of Dave Cornell. I guess she really got disillusioned with Jensen! > > Hi Susan, Dear Lady, > > Haven't seen you about for a bit - I've been busy too! > > This sort of Jensen behaviour seems to be becoming far too common in the old > BF these days. Didn't I read somewhere about a well known BIGS medico of > some sort who got into a bit of bother about allegedly groping a few of his > patients or some other such hanky panky? Wasn't there some talk that he > paid a certain sum of money whilst not admitting liability but agreed not to > practice again? And didn't he receive an appointment at some AO controlled > academic institution or other ... Sorry! the name eludes me at the moment - > well actually both names, his and the academic institution. One of them > sounded like a pastry or sweetmeat of some sort! > > And hey! What is all this stuff rolling up from New Mexico? Law suit filed > no less! WOW! I can see we're going to have some fun with this one! > > As ever, > > Dermod. > > ______________ > > > > I am pleased to announce that "Dr." Leland "Doc" Jensen, leader of > > 'Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant' (based in Missoula, > > Montana) the cult to which I belonged from 1990-94, FINALLY died August > > 6, 1996. He would have been 82 years old on August 22. > > It's amazing to me what a sense of relief I feel!! I keep finding > > myself whistling the song from "Wizard of Oz"....."Ding, dong, the witch > > is dead... Which old witch?.... The wicked witch!" !!! > > It's odd to be glad of somebody's death, and there's a little (tiny) > > voice scolding me for my glee, but I really am glad he can't (directly) > > hurt anyone any more!!! The women he molested can rest easier now, as can > > his followers who are the parents of young girls who have worked so hard > > at trying to believe his story of innocence. (He did time at the Montana > > State Prison for "lewd and lacivious acts on a minor" who was a 15 year > > old chiropractic patient of his. 19 other women also testified at his 1969 > > trial about their molestations by him...not an era in which women freely > > said the things they said on the stand, not even if they were being bribed > > as Jensen claimed. Since his "visitation" while in prison and his > > subsequent "mission" has put him in a position above suspicion or > > reproach, any woman student or follower of his who accused him of sexual > > impropriety was in turn accused of lying for some evil motive, "going > > against the Promised One of God.") > > Those harmed in ways other than sexual, giving up families, careers, > > spiritual growth, livelihoods, self-respect, etc, etc, no longer need to > > fear being "cast into the nethermost gloom" or being "erased from the > > Lamb's Book of Life" or being called "Judas" or "harlot" to > > friends......etc, etc, etc! At least not directly, by Jensen. > > His clone, Neal Chase, will try to keep the group going and so will > > perpetuate Jensen's legacy of deception. (Along with Jensen's 34 year-old > > second wife, Frances "Wind" Jensen and a core group of followers in > > Missoula, MT; and satellite "communities" in Madison and Milwaukee, WI; > > Roaring Fork Valley, CO; and Minneapolis, MN.) > > Actually, as Jensen has aged, Neal has taken over a bit at a time, > > making more and more of the predictions of Armageddon and in general, > > running things. (All the while, of course, trying to make it look like he > > wasn't, just like he learned from his mentor, Jensen....sound familiar, > > anyone?) > > Chase is the one who recruited my ex-husband, Dave Cornell, who in > > turn recruited me. (Ex since I said I thought there was something wrong > > with the leader....) So Dave will be racking up the gold stars throwing > > his support even more firmly behind Neal during the transition. (He got a > > BIG promotion when he severed his marriage to me and stayed inside.....he > > got my old position as one of the 12 apostles and vice-president of the > > "Second International Baha'i Council".) > > It's amazing to me how much freer I now feel with Jensen dead!! I > > don't feel like I need to post this anonymously. And I won't need to find > > myself fantasizing about his death anymore.....he's already dead!!!! > > FINALLY!!! > > > > Anybody relate? > > > > > > > > "And we were gathered in one place, a generation lost in space, with no > time > > left to start again . . " > > Don McLean's American Pie > > https://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/ > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:57 AM Subject: Re: All Religions are ONE RELIGION Judge for yourself: The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Mesbah" wrote in message news:tHVv6.349$KN6.14111@jekyl.ab.tac.net... All religions are ONE RELIGION. See details at: https://www.bci.org/edmonton.bahais/id350.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 8:03 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai institutions for FRAUD Perhaps some sort of legal defense fund should be created for vicitms of the fundamentalists. Often people have excellent cases but not the where-with-all to pursue justice, the best beloved of all things in His sight.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Nima Hazini" wrote in message news:99sgtg$74p$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > The clincher here - which shows how smart this attorney is - is that he's > pursuing the matter based on laws of incorporation and members rights > therein. While Baha'i fundamentalists lately have been hiding behind the red > herring of "the Baha'i faith is a voluntary organization" argument, they > would be hard pressed to argue this one to a judge where the law as spelled > out in this specific case is concerned. If a judge found that a board of > trustees violated their own bylaws and rules in treating incorporated > members, she could rule very decisively against the board of trustees, and I > suspect that should this attorney have enough testimony and evidence to that > effect, it could very well happen. > > It seems that Shoghi Effendi's insistance in having the Baha'i faith > incorporated as an organization is finally coming back to haunt, at least, > this generation of Baha'i leadership. One could say that the AO has finally > been put on notice. Of course, I say this is all for the good of the Baha'is > themselves, part of the process of helping the maturation of their > administrative order and all. May there be more lawsuits - and there will - > to help expedite this process along. > > cheers, > Nima > > > wrote in message news:3ac1a554.30228214@news.aros.net... > > I have seen many suits being an assitant to a para legal, and it is no > worse than most, and if the facts are true, it should prove very > interesting. > > Plus as I wrote on another site, this can be expected when as Shoghi > Effendi stated the administration has been "multilated." > > > > On 28 Mar 2001 05:06:35 GMT, smaneck@aol.com (Susan Maneck ) wrote: > > >>Yorgos D. Marinakis > >>Attorney for Plaintiffs > >>P.O. Box 45923 > >>Rio Rancho, NM 87174 > > > >An actual lawyer wrote this mishmash? It doesn't even make any sense! > > > >"And we were gathered in one place, a generation lost in space, with no > time > >left to start again . . " > >Don McLean's American Pie > >https://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/ > > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:48 AM Subject: Re: Good Cop, Bad Cop "Nima Hazini" wrote in message news:99ue4a$oji$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > Just a note to the newer posters. > > It seems whenever a new controversy is exposed in Baha'i -land the brothers > and sister whip-enforcers of Baha'i fundyloonism come out of the woodwork in > full force to protect what they percieve as their turf. Occasionally one of > them plays the good cop, while the other the bad cop, and sometimes they > switch roles. This sort of cultist mind game is typical and many of us have > experienced it many a time, so I wouldn't be too jaded by it. It is after > all their jobs to enforce ideology and put a spin on the issues when it > makes their patrons look bad. It is also a foregone conclusion that these > people have little by way of ethics, so the dishonesty and spin is to be > expected. Just be patient with it, observe and in time you will notice > exactly what is going on here. > > cheers, > Nima For those new around here, I would just like to say that I too have witnessed bahai fundamentalists behaving in this way many, many, many times.... Nima is quite right about the spin-doctoring going on. For further reflections along these lines see The Bahai Technique: https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 8:17 AM Subject: The Discredit Game Apparently, the only one the fundamentalists know.... One can rightly judge how little "bahai love" amounts to for these people, quick to ignore the New Mexico lawsuit charges and change to ad hominem, backbiting, and slander. Pereceptive oberservers new to bahai newsgroups might want to read the historical record of their behavior, approved and coordinated by the "universal" house of "justice" and its sycophants: "The Bahai Technique" https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Nima Hazini[SMTP:lotusapt@wxc.com.au] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 8:42 AM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Yorgos' email address Fred, fyi Marinakis' email address: Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net cheers, Nima ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:43 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai institutions for FRAUD I would assume they're already aware of these newsgroups and perhaps my website or someone else will inform them. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm wrote in message news:3ac3ad5d.4412531@news.aros.net... > > > Perhaps as a friendly jesture you could get hold of her lawyer and > offer yourself and others as possible witnesses in developing this > pattern she is talking about? > > On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 07:03:15 -0600, "Patrick Henry" > wrote: > > >Please notice the bahai fundamentalists are failing to respond to the > >details of the lawsuit charges: > > > >2. Plaintiffs allege that Trustees breached their duties as corporate > >officers. > >3. Plaintiffs allege that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their > >duty of deciding appeals owed to Plaintiffs. > >4. Plaintiffs allege that the literature review policies of the Local > >Spiritual Assembly and the National Spiritual Assembly, which lie in > >privity, unlawfully prevent shareholders from their right to communicate > >with other shareholders. > >5. Plaintiffs allege that Defendants failed to execute their duties under > >their corporate by-laws. > > > >THOSE are the charges, being ignored by the lackies who handled > >damaged control on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai > > > >I would think the lawyer representing the plaintiffs might find many > >similar stories, during the last decade or so, documented on my > >bahai webpages, as well as perhaps many potential witnesses to > >the manner in which the bahai administration now operates.... > > > >FULL TEXT: > >New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD 2001 > >https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm > > > >-- > >Frederick Glaysher > >www.fglaysher.com > >The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > >https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > >"Nima Hazini" wrote in message > >news:99tuhg$k1b$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > >> I think it says somewhere it was filed on the 22nd of March. > >> > >> cheers, > >> Nima > >> > >> "Michael McKenny" wrote in message > >> news:99talu$6f9$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > >> Greetings, Nima. > >> Good to see you here again. > >> What's the date of this? Is this going to go to trial and when? > >> By the way, if you replied to my post a while back about my receiving > >> your test message I didn't get your reply. That post mentioned my review > >> of ARCHAEOLOGY OF THE DREAMTIME, that's Australian. That review was posted > >> to a pagan newsgroup, as just now has my review of A GUIDE TO EARLY IRISH > > > >> LAW. Hooper and his buddies would have loved that. Women had little legal > >> standing and rulers were very difficult to take to task. I'm currently > >> working on the 1899 anthropological classic THE NATIVE TRIBES OF CENTRAL > >> AUSTRALIA. > >> As always, here's hoping you're doing very well. > >> Thrive, > >> Michael > >> > >> "Nima Hazini" (lotusapt@wxc.com.au) writes: > >> > It's a deposition. Do you know what a deposition is? > >> > > >> > cheers, > >> > Nima > >> > > >> > "Susan Maneck " wrote in message > >> > news:20010328000635.13283.00002188@ng-fi1.aol.com... > >> >>Yorgos D. Marinakis > >> >>Attorney for Plaintiffs > >> >>P.O. Box 45923 > >> >>Rio Rancho, NM 87174 > >> > > >> > An actual lawyer wrote this mishmash? It doesn't even make any sense! > >> > > >> > "And we were gathered in one place, a generation lost in space, with no > >> time > >> > left to start again . . " > >> > Don McLean's American Pie > >> > https://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > >> (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 8:54 AM Subject: The Fundamentalist Smoke Screen, covering up FRAUD My, how thick it is.... Newcomers here my want to consider that it's calculated to prevent them from perceiving the fact that fundamentalists are NOT responding to the New Mexico Lawsuit agaisnt bahai institutions for <> -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:04 AM Subject: ** bahai ** - Advice to Yorgos D. Marinakis, Attorney for Plaintiffs, regarding "Brent Poirier, who took no action" Mr. Marinakis, In pressing your New Mexico lawsuit against the fundamentalist bahais, you might find some helpful information about "Brent Poirier, who took no action," in the easily searchable archive file below: https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archives/ArchivesCombined7-31-2000.txt In general, you might want to familiarize yourself with my and Professor Cole's bahai websites for other pertinent information and extensive cases and documentation regarding other bahais being coerced, threatened, and so forth. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai institutions for FRAUD Please note how desperate bahai fanatics and fundamentalists are to deny and discredit the FRAUD alleged in the New Mexico lawsuit against the local and US national bahai institutions. The person I am responding to here, on soc.culture.israel, is widely regarded as a notorious fanatic fundamentalist. It should be evindent to perceptive readers that the fundamentalists are attempting to prevent knowledge of this lawsuit from reaching public officials in Israel, and elsewhere, whom they regularly lie to about the nature of bahai institutions. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:99vl6t02tp4@news1.newsguy.com... > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:tc693aqc7rvh33@corp.supernews.com... > > Please notice the bahai fundamentalists are failing to respond to the > > details of the lawsuit charges: > > Please note that the "details" quoted don't allege any actual facts. They > simply allege that some vague violations have occured. > > Note the pattern: make vague allegations, then complain about people not > responding directly to the vague allegations. I suppose we're supposed to > ignore the fact that no attempt has yet been made to prove any of the > allegations. Such is the "Glaysher Technique". > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: Re: A Virtual Tour of the Baha'i Schools Worldwide::.. If you're seriously interested in understanding what is being done in bahai circles, I suggest you consider the FULL TEXT of the recently filed New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm Further details may be found on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Mesbah" wrote in message news:VKww6.494$KN6.19434@jekyl.ab.tac.net... "Against this gloomy backdrop of a decadent society, Bahá'í children should shine as the emblems of a better future." --The Universal House of Justice A Virtual Tour of the Baha'i Schools Worldwide: https://www.bci.org/edmonton.bahais/id331.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai institutions for FRAUD You're the one who crawled out of his hole the moment the message "New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD" https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm was posted and started slinging mud and aspersions against me and others. Your playing the innocent little lamb isn't going to fool anyone who is even remotely familiar with the despicable things you, and people like you, have done to fellow bahais for years in the name of perverted "truth," on and off line.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:9a27up015oa@news2.newsguy.com... > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:9a215o$3bd04$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Please note how desperate bahai fanatics and fundamentalists > > are to deny and discredit the FRAUD alleged in the New Mexico > > lawsuit against the local and US national bahai institutions. > > Please note that, in Mr. Glaysher's dictionary, pointing out the absence of > fact contitutes a "denial". I think this is the same dictionary under which > SPAM is considered a legitimate activity. > > > The person I am responding to here, on soc.culture.israel, is widely > > regarded as a notorious fanatic fundamentalist. > > Perceptive readers will see this as the ad-hominem that it is. > > In the mean time, we still haven't seen any _facts_, and not amount of > Glaysher-made smoke-screen will manage to obscure this. I just wonder if > Mr. Glaysher will demonstrate a similar dedication to truth when this case > gets dismissed. > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:34 PM To: Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net Cc: FG@home.com Subject: VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD - DEBORAH BUCHHORN Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs Mr. Marinakis, I have recently become aware of your representing DEBORAH BUCHHORN. Please permit me to bring to your attention, if you're not already familiar with it, my website on Bahai censorship. Having read a copy of the complaint, it seems to me that I have documented perhaps numerous incidents and individual stories that might be of interest or assistance to you. Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan also maintains a website with substantial material that you might find helpful. His journal article that surveys Bahai censorship might lend further insight into the breadth of fraud practiced by the Bahai administration: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm Feel free to email me. I'd be happy to help in anyway possible. Sincerely, Frederick Glaysher 668 Bolinger Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 248-651-3380 www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com ---------- From: Yorgos Marinakis[SMTP:Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 8:40 PM To: Frederick Glaysher Subject: Re: VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD - DEBORAH BUCHHORN Dear Frederick, Thank you for your message. I'll checkout your website and get back to you soon. Best regards, Yorgos ----- Original Message ----- From: FG To: Cc: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:34 PM Subject: VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD - DEBORAH BUCHHORN > Yorgos D. Marinakis > Attorney for Plaintiffs > > Mr. Marinakis, > > I have recently become aware of your representing > DEBORAH BUCHHORN. Please permit me to bring to your > attention, if you're not already familiar with it, > my website on Bahai censorship. Having read a copy > of the complaint, it seems to me that I have documented > perhaps numerous incidents and individual stories that > might be of interest or assistance to you. > > Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan > also maintains a website with substantial material > that you might find helpful. His journal article that > surveys Bahai censorship might lend further insight > into the breadth of fraud practiced by the Bahai administration: > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > Feel free to email me. I'd be happy to help in anyway > possible. > > Sincerely, > > Frederick Glaysher > 668 Bolinger > Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 > 248-651-3380 > > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com > ---------- From: Nima Hazini[SMTP:lotusapt@wxc.com.au] Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 9:46 AM To: Frederick Glaysher Cc: Dermod Ryder Subject: Re: Yorgos' email address Fred, I'm cc-ing to Dermod. >Notice the March lull and then the return with a >vengenace once we posted the NM lawsuit? Clearly >orchestrated. Oh, absolutely orchestrated. So obvious, too. All of the usual cast of characters came right out of the woodwork. I am now more than ever convinced that Schaut is actually put up to his internet presence, the question is who by exactly (I've heard rumours about Henderson but can't prove it). Maneck we know by Ghadirian. But what about Kohli? I've wondered for a long time what his gain in all this is. >Can you find out or gain access to the back-channel >listservs they're using? I assume they're through the >BCCA I don't have any access and don't know how to go about it, but maybe Dermod could pull an Edward Smith and try to access some of these back channels under an alias or some such and report back. Btw, Fred, almost all the contents of your site is going into the file for my case. Interesting to see what a judge here will make of it all (if it should go to trial which I doubt the ao here will want). Dermod do you mind chiming in on trb a little more? cheers, Nima ---------- From: Dermod Ryder[SMTP:Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com] Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 11:29 AM To: Nima Hazini Cc: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Yorgos' email address Nima, > > I'm cc-ing to Dermod. > > >Notice the March lull and then the return with a > >vengenace once we posted the NM lawsuit? Clearly > >orchestrated. > > Oh, absolutely orchestrated. So obvious, too. All of the usual cast of > characters came right out of the woodwork. I am now more than ever convinced > that Schaut is actually put up to his internet presence, the question is who > by exactly (I've heard rumours about Henderson but can't prove it). Maneck > we know by Ghadirian. But what about Kohli? I've wondered for a long time > what his gain in all this is. Geez - you'd think Hendi could pick somebody with talent or ability and not a thick bollocks like Schaut. I honestly don't think Pat is playing anybody's game other than his own - he lacks the invective. > > >Can you find out or gain access to the back-channel > >listservs they're using? I assume they're through the > >BCCA > > I don't have any access and don't know how to go about it, but maybe Dermod > could pull an Edward Smith and try to access some of these back channels > under an alias or some such and report back. Do you want Francis Dingle to re-appear or another charecter? My expertise ain't that good. I'll set up a hotmail via Edward tonight and take it from there if you want me to go fishin'. I'll need briefed on exactly what you're looking for and how to get it. You know me - I'm game for anything! > > Btw, Fred, almost all the contents of your site is going into the file for > my case. Interesting to see what a judge here will make of it all (if it > should go to trial which I doubt the ao here will want). > > Dermod do you mind chiming in on trb a little more? I thought I was scoring pretty well on TRB at the moment - Schaut and Maniac haven't responded to one of my posts as yet! Still there's plenty more where that came from - I'll try to increase the mischief making tonight. Be good - if possible! As ever, Dermod. > > cheers, > Nima > > > > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 2:01 PM To: lotusapt@wxc.com.au Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Yorgos' email address Nima, Thanks. He's acknowledged receipt and has said he'll check out my website. Gotta be something there useful.... I've sent an FYI to Cole. His perspective would be interesting on all this. Notice the March lull and then the return with a vengenace once we posted the NM lawsuit? Clearly orchestrated. Can you find out or gain access to the back-channel listservs they're using? I assume they're through the BCCA. Fred ---- Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs Mr. Marinakis, I have recently become aware of your representing DEBORAH BUCHHORN. Please permit me to bring to your attention, if you're not already familiar with it, my website on Bahai censorship. Having read a copy of the complaint, it seems to me that I have documented perhaps numerous incidents and individual stories that might be of interest or assistance to you. Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan also maintains a website with substantial material that you might find helpful. His journal article that surveys Bahai censorship might lend further insight into the breadth of fraud practiced by the Bahai administration: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm Feel free to email me. I'd be happy to help in anyway possible. Sincerely, Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm >From: "Nima Hazini" >To: >Subject: Yorgos' email address >Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:42:56 +1000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [192.189.54.8] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBC8DD78300164004314CC0BD360890040; Fri Mar 30 05:39:16 2001 >Received: from default (acc4-ppp249.gco.dialup.connect.net.au >[210.10.234.249])by entoo.connect.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id >9B7BCDD3EDfor ; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:38:13 +1000 >(EST) >From lotusapt@wxc.com.au Fri Mar 30 05:39:57 2001 >Message-ID: <003d01c0b91f$544051c0$f9ea0ad2@default> >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 > >Fred, > >fyi > >Marinakis' email address: > >Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net > >cheers, >Nima > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 9:32 AM Subject: ^^ bahai ^^ - New Mexico LAWSUIT for Fraud & Libel (sound familiar?) - FULL TEXT - against bahai institutions Read for yourself the full text of the filed complaint: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Yorgos Marinakis[SMTP:Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net] Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:42 PM To: Frederick Glaysher Subject: Re: VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD - DEBORAH BUCHHORN We might need an expert witness on this matter. Would you be interested in discussing this possibility at the appropriate time? ----- Original Message ----- From: FG To: Cc: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:34 PM Subject: VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD - DEBORAH BUCHHORN > Yorgos D. Marinakis > Attorney for Plaintiffs > > Mr. Marinakis, > > I have recently become aware of your representing > DEBORAH BUCHHORN. Please permit me to bring to your > attention, if you're not already familiar with it, > my website on Bahai censorship. Having read a copy > of the complaint, it seems to me that I have documented > perhaps numerous incidents and individual stories that > might be of interest or assistance to you. > > Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan > also maintains a website with substantial material > that you might find helpful. His journal article that > surveys Bahai censorship might lend further insight > into the breadth of fraud practiced by the Bahai administration: > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > Feel free to email me. I'd be happy to help in anyway > possible. > > Sincerely, > > Frederick Glaysher > 668 Bolinger > Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 > 248-651-3380 > > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com > ---------- From: Nima Hazini[SMTP:lotusapt@wxc.com.au] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:35 AM To: Frederick Glaysher Cc: Dermod Ryder Subject: Re: Yorgos' email address Guys, >I've always believed the CIA was necessary, given >human realities.... An idea occurs to me - actually I've been thinking about it for quite awhile - but since Fred brought it up subtly, I think between the 3 of us (for starters) we just might be able to pull it off. First, though, I think both of you ought download the ZoneAlarm firewall for security purposes, if you don't have it already. Go to www.zonealarm.com and download it - it's free for personal use. Basically the idea involves counter-espionage against the Baha'i establishment. cheers, Nima ---------- From: Dermod Ryder[SMTP:Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:34 AM To: Nima Hazini; Frederick Glaysher Subject: Re: Yorgos' email address Y'all know me - always game for a laugh and after facing Schaut's ponderous arse today I'm more than ready. I already operate Zonealarm - it keeps telling me people are trying to access my machine. We need a computer pro/hacker - Steve perhaps or Rachel if she would come on board. Leave Rachel to me - I want to suss her out on other things. Re the BCCA - I have seen a ref somewhere to a Nick Sanders as Secretary(?). If he's the guy I am thinking of - he is probably in Edinburgh, Scotland. He moved over there from NI about 7 years ago. He was known as "Nick the Prick" by local journalists - used to haunt the offices with all sorts of exciting stories about the AF. He was one of the original recipients of the original BNW and from what I heard enjoyed it enormously. If there are high level list servs for passing on secure information and directives, they may be encrypted and, in any case, would exist for high level command operatives e.g. Henderson and the Counsellors. Instructions would then pass down to the soldiers (toadies) like Maniac and Schaut. It may not be co-ordinated too well. To infiltrate the high level would require either a high level mole or a bloody good hacker. Schaut uses OE and not the latest version. Maniac is on AOL. Could a good hacker infiltrate their machines? Would this be legal? Can any information that we get be used? I am minded more of my Orthodox Bahai scam - I gave "information" that the Orthodox Bahais had adherents in the local community and were coming here officially to an "enquirer." He showed the documents to one of the "assistants" who almost had an apoplectic attack. When the docs were returned the corners had been folded showing that they had been copied and passed on. I do this as a practical joke and time waster for the local yokels. What we need is a double agent - a high level defector from the liberal cause who would act as a double agent passing useful information to a high level of the AO. Perhaps a triumph for Maniac in mentoring and converting one but one who insists on dealing with the top. The information would have to be plausible, important to the AO - but unimportant otherwise - of sufficient value to get to the top. We might then see a downward transmission of this info for action. Is Yorgos a Bahai? Why is he in this? Would he help a scam - perhaps by sacrificing some info which is not crucial to the case? I'm thinking of: - "Dear Susan, I've been on the liberal fringe for a while but this court case has sickened me. Yes we need reforms but this is going too far. I have information which will help defeat it. Who do I contact? Not you! Somebody at Wilmette!" Another possibility is to subvert one of the inner circle - an ABM perhaps. Any likely candidates? Ask Juan? Would Paul D tell us more about the system? We need a full appraisal of the enemy before doing anything. Why limit to counter espionage when we could do counter-intelligence as well? Maybe it's the Francis Dingle in me! As ever, Dermod. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nima Hazini" To: "Frederick Glaysher" Cc: "Dermod Ryder" Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 2:35 PM Subject: Re: Yorgos' email address > Guys, > > >I've always believed the CIA was necessary, given > >human realities.... > > An idea occurs to me - actually I've been thinking about it for quite > awhile - but since Fred brought it up subtly, I think between the 3 of us > (for starters) we just might be able to pull it off. First, though, I think > both of you ought download the ZoneAlarm firewall for security purposes, if > you don't have it already. Go to www.zonealarm.com and download it - it's > free for personal use. > > Basically the idea involves counter-espionage against the Baha'i > establishment. > > cheers, > Nima > > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:21 AM Subject: Re: ^^ bahai ^^ - New Mexico LAWSUIT for Fraud & Libel (sound familiar?) - FULL TEXT - against bahai institutions NBCi.com will hang up or freeze sometimes on its ads for some reason. I feel I owe them a little advertisement for their kind hosting of my site. The link below has NO ADS & usually always works without hanging up: https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm The alternative is just to hit your Refresh button. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Stuart Palin" wrote in message news:mfnx6.6304$u93.889049@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com... > Patrick Henry wrote in message > news:tcbn1st8b3eo2a@corp.supernews.com... > > Read for yourself the full text of the filed complaint: > > > > New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL > > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm > > > A dead link, like all of your members.nbci.com links. Perhaps Mr Glaysher, > if you backed up your venom with facts, rather than grandiose and > unsubstantiated claims I would consider your opinions worthwhile. As it is, > from a purely objective point of view, you seem to spend most of your time > pouring out tired posts attacking this religion. You reiterate the same > points over and over again under new header and avoid any form of > intelligent debate. Indeed, your own warning signs of fanaticism fit you > like a glove. > > I only joined this newsgroup today in the hope of some intelligent > discussion, instead I find tired arguements being trotted out for a > peanut-gallery crowd. Such a waste of time, both mine and yours. I hope you > all enjoy Mr. Glaysher's spectacle, I certainly won't be staying for another > encore. > > -Stuart Palin > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:33 AM Subject: Re: Alburqueque - the question! Nima, You never know, your doing the leg work and finding in the talisman archives might just be of use to Mr. Marinakis. If you can find the time and files concerned, please post them here. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9a5dh3$ear$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Hi, Nima. > Could you or someone kindly post this here. > Thrive, > M > > "Nima Hazini" (lotusapt@wxc.com.au) writes: > > snip snip snip snip - Whatever! > > > > > >>If you really want to say the Alburqueque community was hopelessly whacked > > out, > >>please do so in _detail_, not generalizations, not cliches, please, _how_ > >>elections were rigged, how the riggers precluded complaints, _how_ etc. > > _what_ > >>etc. _who_ etc. etc. etc. > > > > Go to the talisman9 archives and you'll find my detailed memoirs of the > > Albuquerque Scientology (sorry, Baha'i) community. > > > > cheers, > > Nima > > > > > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:37 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai Dermod Ryder wrote: > If applause is reckoned to bring attention to a candidate in an effort to > secure votes for him, in my book that constitutes an attempt to engineer the > election. We shall await the outcome in particular shall we await a hearing > to see whether any other evidence is brought to bear. This is regularly done at regional and national bahai elections and should really be the focus of another lawsuit against the NSA for participating in it. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message news:tce419kqhnf2f9@xo.supernews.co.uk... > > "Susan Maneck " wrote in message > news:20010401000536.27129.00003216@ng-ch1.aol.com... > > >No doubt, when it comes to a hearing, > > >evidence will be adduced to show that "electioneering" is forbidden > > > > > > Proving it is forbidden is one thing. Proving electioneering constitutes > > "rigging" is still another. Proving that applause constitutes > electioneering is > > another thing again. > > Within the AO electioneering is forbidden - there are ample quotes on that > as you well know. If it is forbidden yet happens that constitutes a form of > election rigging as anybody possessed of common sense would know. Any form > of pressure, no matter how subtle, in an electoral system which forbids it, > is an attempt to garner votes for a particular candidate or candidates and > that constitutes an attempt to rig the election. > > If applause is reckoned to bring attention to a candidate in an effort to > secure votes for him, in my book that constitutes an attempt to engineer the > election. We shall await the outcome in particular shall we await a hearing > to see whether any other evidence is brought to bear. > > > >no lawyer goes to Court > > >without having a better than fifty per cent chance of winning. > > > > First off, he isn't going to court yet. He has only filed a complaint. > Second, > > any lawyer will go to court if you pay him enough. I expect his one isn't > > working on contingency. > > I have yet to meet a lawyer who advocated my going to Court without having a > case which had a reasonable prospect of success. Most of the ones I know > have a sense of professionalism and decency not to involve a client in costs > save that he has a worthy case. > > > As far as the NSA goes, everyone who has ever dealt with them knows they > are > > always as slow as molasses in January. > > Well maybe they ought to get their act together and warm the molasses! I > wonder how long they have been sitting on this case. Of course in any half > decent organisation, those who are as slow as molasses would have their > asses warmed by being booted off for gross inefficiency. > > > > > >Your comments to date have been > > >naught but ill-informed speculation - > > > > And yours are better informed? > > Actually yes, but I won't bore you with the details! > > > > >Are your puppet masters so > > >worried that they have got to try to proffer some defence on this forum > > > > If I had puppet masters wouldn't they be feeding me the inside scoop? > > Have they got one? Have they warmed the molasses yet - at least enough to > generate some movement? > > > >Are you endeavouring to set up the faithful to view > > >this as another bit of martyrdom inflicted by yet more of these internal > > >enemies of the Faith? > > > > Have I talked about martyrdom or internal enemies of the Faith? I think > this is > > what we call projection of your own dualism. > > My "dualism" - aw! shucks! now why would attribute schizophrenia to all of > my other faults? (Still you never want for a friend with schizophrenia!) > Actually it was just my appreciation of what I thought your aims and > objectives were - damage limitation ansd stuff like that. To have left the > warm, loving atmosphere of Bridges to again come to this hellhole must have > been motivated by some perceived powerful need ... or orders! > > > > > >note that Nima who has lived in this community has been unable > > >to > > >offer any information contrary > > > > Do you think he would if he had information to the contrary? You guys > don't > > exactly have much of a reputation for fairly presenting all sides. > > I think that he has posted to the effect that this behaviour was similar to > that he had seen and experienced in this community and that it had been a > factor in his sensible decision to haul ass out of there. So he has no > information to the contrary. I realise you don't regard that as "fair" ... > but that's the way the wafer crumbles! > > > "And we were gathered in one place, a generation lost in space, with no > time > > left to start again . . " > > " Of that there is no possible doubt, no possible doubt, no possible doubt > whatever!" > W.S.Gilbert - "The Gondoliers" > > Pip, Pip! > > > > Don McLean's American Pie > > https://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/ > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:08 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai institutions for FRAUD After over four years of observing the tactics of bahai fundamentalists, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always smear and attack the individual. 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for non-bahais that the individual is unbalanced, aberrant, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject. 5. Shift to the past and argue over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses "review" to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to disucss anything with them is simple a waste of time and energy. I have many interests in life. Documenting bahai fundamentalism is only one of them. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts.They're intended for the uninformed.... And they will be staying on the newsgroups I choose as long as bahai censorship and deceit continue. It should be evident to informed people that fundamentalists desire to suppress all knowledge of their suppression and coercion of bahais and non-bahais over the last decade or more now. I am only interested in preserving the record of what bahai fundamentalists have done. Others may read it and decide for themselves. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how low bahai fanatics have been willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai webpages.... It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so long..... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:9a3j6q01qoi@news1.newsguy.com... > > "Nima Hazini" wrote in message > news:9a3d3t$asq$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > > >Gee, Fred, what happened to that Baha'i love you keep talking about? > > > Pot calling the kettle black? > > Really? Isn't Fred the one who makes it an issue to point out everyone > else's lack of "Baha'i Love"? > > > >Ah, yes. I've done such "despicable" things as call people on their faux > > >pas. > > > You've called no ones faux paus > > Get back to me on this when you an accurately state the difference between a > deposition and a complaint. > > > Seems he passed the bar in Mass in February 2000, so it's hardly a scant 6 > > months (albeit February 2000 is probably scant 6 months by your ridiculous > > calculations), and besides the guy has a Ph.D of top of the law degree > he's > > obtained. > > Actually, according to the web site to which I posted a link earlier, he > passed the written portion of the bar exam in September, 2000. > > And, note that I didn't just pull that out of my backside. I did something > unique and novel: I looked it up! You might try that for yourself some > time. > > > Do you know anything about the firm he works for, hmmmm??? > > Frankly, no. Is there something I'm supposed to know? Tell you what, why > don't you go find a web site that shows which firm he works for, and then > I'll go find information about that firm. I've grown a little skeptical > about your unsupported statements about someone's supposed qualifications > (particularly when this someone writes a complaint that looks like it came > from a first-year law student). > > > > Nasty, bad, horrible old me. > > > I can think of a dozen more colorful adjectives. > > I'm sure you can. I'm also sure that they're about as accurate as your > description of this attorney's accomplisments. > > > >Methinks that the real complaint is that I don't just roll over and play > > >dead > > > Please do the world a favor and go sailing away into the sunset on your > > little boat. > > Do you know the difference between a "boat" and a "yacht"? (Old sailor's > joke. The quick-witted will be able to guess the punch line.) > > > >that doesn't actually allege any facts that would constitute a violation > of > > >the law. > > > Ooh, and you're a New Mexico state judge and would know *grin*. > > I don't recall claiming to be a New Mexico state judge, but, then, one > doesn't need to be any kind of judge in order to have sufficient knowledge > to point out the flaws in a basic complaint. This is a relatively simple > tort. Most folks whove taken one course in business law can figure out that > this complaint is pretty pathetic. > > > Polly wanna cracker?? > > [Snort.] I dare say we wouldn't be in this little thread, sport, had you > actually gone and looked up the information on this attorney rather than > repeating what you'd been told by someone else. Now _there's_ a cracker for > you. > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > ---------- From: Nima Hazini[SMTP:lotusapt@wxc.com.au] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 9:48 PM To: Dermod Ryder; Fred Glaysher Subject: Re: TRB. Hasty, Dermod. Heckle and Jeckyll are up and at it with full force, again. Nothing will make those two nimrods shut up short of an actual court victory. Anyone notice how much malice Schaut exudes from his posts? K. Paul Johnson once said to me that Schaut and Maneck's unmitigated nastiness and fanaticism was actually a plus for the liberals and dissidents because it totally exposes how incredibly arrogant and one-dimensional these people are to the outside world. Where do they find these people?? Fred, I'm really pressed for time this week, but it would be a good idea to collect and forward the trb discussions over to Yorgos. This stuff could come in handy in court and might even bolster their case. As for leaking misinformation, good idea. Henderson would simply have a cow. cheers, Nima ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dermod Ryder" To: "Nima Hazini" ; "Fred Glaysher" Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:37 AM Subject: TRB. The NM thread is coming to an end, I think. Schaut is the only one left providing Maniac doesn't come back on it - she hasn't responded to the last blast from me and I think is starting to realise they are only harming themselves at the moment. Shit's arrogance never fails to impress. Note Charles' advice for the BIGS to leave. If they do we're going to drive them out and off the Internet and back to their own wee groups. Regarding the CIA I have an idea based on the Majnun post and Dialogue. Supposing Henderson got a leaked mail from the LBS (Liberal Bahai Society or Loada Bull Shit depending on your POV) stating that 3-4 delegates have been subverted and are going to cause big shit trouble at National Convention, whilst at the same time, observers in the public gallery will distribute literature and everybody would decamp in disgust to TV, radio and press interviews ... what would he do? If you like it I'll draft the mail - but you and Fred will need to think of a suitable person to leak it by. As ever, Dermod. ---------- From: Dermod Ryder[SMTP:Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:37 PM To: Nima Hazini; Fred Glaysher Subject: TRB. The NM thread is coming to an end, I think. Schaut is the only one left providing Maniac doesn't come back on it - she hasn't responded to the last blast from me and I think is starting to realise they are only harming themselves at the moment. Shit's arrogance never fails to impress. Note Charles' advice for the BIGS to leave. If they do we're going to drive them out and off the Internet and back to their own wee groups. Regarding the CIA I have an idea based on the Majnun post and Dialogue. Supposing Henderson got a leaked mail from the LBS (Liberal Bahai Society or Loada Bull Shit depending on your POV) stating that 3-4 delegates have been subverted and are going to cause big shit trouble at National Convention, whilst at the same time, observers in the public gallery will distribute literature and everybody would decamp in disgust to TV, radio and press interviews ... what would he do? If you like it I'll draft the mail - but you and Fred will need to think of a suitable person to leak it by. As ever, Dermod. ---------- From: Dermod Ryder[SMTP:Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:23 AM To: Nima Hazini; Fred Glaysher Subject: Re: TRB. Hi Guys, > Hasty, Dermod. Heckle and Jeckyll are up and at it with full force, again. > Nothing will make those two nimrods shut up short of an actual court > victory. Anyone notice how much malice Schaut exudes from his posts? K. Paul > Johnson once said to me that Schaut and Maneck's unmitigated nastiness and > fanaticism was actually a plus for the liberals and dissidents because it > totally exposes how incredibly arrogant and one-dimensional these people are > to the outside world. Where do they find these people?? Totally agre with KP - I think they get them in the sewer. > Fred, I'm really pressed for time this week, but it would be a good idea to > collect and forward the trb discussions over to Yorgos. This stuff could > come in handy in court and might even bolster their case. I warned Schaut about this very thing and still he goes on and on and on. Must keep him at it!! > > As for leaking misinformation, good idea. Henderson would simply have a cow. Try this for size - would need to get it to him 7 days beforehand. Leak will have to be in US - anywhere other than here in case it is linked to me. Not worried but as I've done it here they might be forewarned. Anyhow let me know on that. Here's the document START Jim, Everybody seems happy enough with the operational plan for Bolero. Only such details as need to be disclosed now to operatives are to be disclosed. We'll give everybody the full details afterwards. The names have been left blank - you can insert for your operatives in the US when you issue. As it is being used in other areas I thought it best to just issue one plan and everybody can insert the names of their own people into it. So far UK, Canada and France have indicated they expect to be ready on the day. To answer your specific other inquiries and explain the plan further: - 1. Final timings have got to be left to the people on the ground. It all hinges on when we get our guy inserted in the speaking order. When he reaches the microphone controller will alert everybody to stand by. When the speaker gives the signal that is the time for them to distribute the bundles of documents. Impress on your people the need for total vigilance and concentration so as to be ready to go both when controller issues the stand by directive and when the speaker gives the signal to start their part of the operation. Good idea might be to have floor director contact controller on each new speaker. Get your own people to decide that. 2. Impress on your guys that if the chairman attempts to suppress the speaker - when he leaves the microphone, they are immediately to distribute the documents and leave. You must impress on them that this is legitimate, peaceful, democratic protest and nothing else. 3. The LBS manifesto and other docs. will have to be in place beforehand. The problem is bulk. Suggestions include splitting the bundle over a number of people - each one brings in his own for distribution. For the floor - up to 100 bundles - we have 3-4 delegates, each brings in his own in a laptop bag for example. Same for the public gallery. If everybody brings in their own that saves having to meet and distribute from a central point. Also if they get wind of it beforehand, that there are up to a dozen bundles coming in means that we can still achieve impact even if they locate one or two. 4. The manifesto and NM Court Docs etc together with other local stuff should be prepared at one location, collated into bundles and collected beforehand by our people. I see no problem with that. Even if they suspect we're going to do this they haven't the resources to trace the warehouse. Only problem is getting it all in without being spotted. If we achieve that we achieve full surprise and full impact. 5. While the delegates who will be distributing the bundles can know, but preferably shouldn't know each other, it is imperative that the speaker is not known in advance. Without him there's no game in town. I suggest that you only inform the Controller who he is. He can then alert the distributors via the director - say 10-15 minutes or so dependent on the speaking order and our guy's place in it, if the opportunity presents itself. To cover slip ups the speaker will talk crud for a few minutes before getting to the real point of the exercise. 6. Controller is to remain in place, incognito throughout the operation. Arrange appropriate hand off signals from him to the director who then distributes it to the rest. He is specifically to remain in place after the walkout so we get full assessment of the reaction. If the director is not discovered he is to remain too but that's one for the people on the ground on the day. 7. If we can't get cameras/recording equipment in openly then bring in covert gear. Quality will not be as good but better than nothing. Operative can run tests on D-1 to assess best angles etc. in any case as a contingency. 8. Impress on everybody the absolute necessity not to hang out together. Casual meetings and greetings are OK but shouldn't exceed 30 sec. at absolute maximum. All last minute inquiries or questions should go to the Controller via the signal method we have already briefed. 9. Best not to give advance notice to the press. This has to be a tight op - we get one go at it. If the press is informed in advance there's a chance of a leak (the AO is so far up its ass that we can't take the chance) and the Chair will close the hall to the public etc. and we lose impact. The way the plan is formulated is that the Controller phones (via mobile) as soon as our people walk out. Your center then has to send the E-mails to the press, TV, etc. New Mexico was a godsend - it tipped the waverers and provided the opportunity for this operation so lets go to it. Come back to me at any time with any other inquiries. If we keep this one tight, we can get maximum impact for minimal collateral damage. One thing for sure they're going to know we're out there and we mean business. Moe. END As ever, Dermod. ---------- From: Dermod Ryder[SMTP:Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:57 AM To: Frederick Glaysher; lotusapt@wxc.com.au Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead Fred, Nima, > How about also using it as a press release to the > major media wire services? I volunteer to post it > to them. You two, or Nima, figure out how to plant it > within.... Let's see, what's the time frame for this? > I don't know off hand the date for the national > convention but would think everything should go out > as soon as possible. That way it might all actually > happen, i.e., some of the media MIGHT show up if > the lawsuit and internal upheaval angles are presented > the right way for them. Come on, Dermod, let's see some > of that creativity!! > > Local media in Chicago has reported in the past on > demonstrations at the House of Worship, for instance. Whole idea of what I sent you is to encourage the paranoia. If they swallow it and alert Conventions worldwide, if they institute security precautions etc. then we have them. Let them know then that it was a scam but that they didn't allow free consultation etc. Legitimate protest or dissent will be suppressed Mein Fuhrer!! That's the time we leak it to press but only if they go OTT to control the Convention. If they swallow it Hendi & Co will be crapping themselves throughout the entire Convention period. They'll congratulate themselves afterwards that their security precautions worked only to find out it was a con ... beautiful if we can get them to swallow it. All it takes is a credible leak to an ABM (Brent?) or Counsellor - an assiduous BIGS who discovered this message in his friend's mail box but can't bring himself to identify either himself or the friend - they're in business together and he's donating loadsa money to the Fund. I'll work on that e-mail later (wee Doodle is just home from school). As ever, Dermod. > > Other thoughts? > > Fred > > > >From: "Dermod Ryder" > >To: "Nima Hazini" , "Fred Glaysher" > > > >Subject: TRB. > >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:37:38 +0100 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Received: from [194.73.73.111] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id > >MHotMailBC92AE50007F400431D9C249496FBE640; Mon Apr 02 22:44:48 2001 > >Received: from [213.122.161.59] (helo=i8a7f3)by protactinium with smtp > >(Exim 3.03 #83)id 14kDsH-0007V7-00; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 00:36:41 +0100 > >From Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com Mon Apr 02 22:45:52 2001 > >Message-ID: <002301c0bbce$010907c0$3ba17ad5@i8a7f3> > >X-Priority: 3 > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 > >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 > > > >The NM thread is coming to an end, I think. Schaut is the only one > >left providing Maniac doesn't come back on it - she hasn't responded > >to the last blast from me and I think is starting to realise they are > >only harming themselves at the moment. Shit's arrogance never fails > >to impress. > > > >Note Charles' advice for the BIGS to leave. If they do we're going to > >drive them out and off the Internet and back to their own wee groups. > > > >Regarding the CIA I have an idea based on the Majnun post and > >Dialogue. > > > >Supposing Henderson got a leaked mail from the LBS (Liberal Bahai > >Society or Loada Bull Shit depending on your POV) stating that 3-4 > >delegates have been subverted and are going to cause big shit trouble > >at National Convention, whilst at the same time, observers in the > >public gallery will distribute literature and everybody would decamp > >in disgust to TV, radio and press interviews ... what would he do? > > > >If you like it I'll draft the mail - but you and Fred will need to > >think of a suitable person to leak it by. > > > >As ever, > > > >Dermod. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:31 AM Subject: Re: > bahai < - LAWSUIT - $10,000 STOLEN - FRAUD & LIBEL in New Mexico Oh you make me laugh! Having over 20 years experience of how fundamentalist liars in the bahai administration operate, I'm sure the offer was in bad faith, since they refused her inspecting the financial books she deemed relevant and which I'm sure would have revealed their malfeasance. Your attempting to turn that into EVIDENCE of my manipulating the Complaint is so laughable.... Tell us, if you're an honest person, a decent bahai, a model of virtue, an examplar for others, who do you work for in the bahai administration? It's a well known fact that Maniac works for Gharidian. Who's your boss? And what's your job title? Assistant what? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:9ad38908mg@news2.newsguy.com... > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:tcje1glqdh5623@corp.supernews.com... > > The New Mexico lawsuit reads: > > > Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records > > 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an > > inaccurate and inequitable manner. > > 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the > > corporate books. > > 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn > > informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their > > financial books. Defendants refused. > > What I'd like to know is why Mr. Glaysher has seen fit to quote paragraphs > 17-19 of the complaint while failing to also quote paragraph 20: > > "20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow named > Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the > Plaintiff deemed in bad faith." > > Yet again, Mr. Glaysher appears to be interested in discussing only some of > the facts, but not all of them. > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:54 AM Subject: Re: > bahai < - LAWSUIT - $10,000 STOLEN - FRAUD & LIBEL in New Mexico Oh, incidentally, what about that $10,000 discrepancy? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Patrick Henry" wrote in message news:tcm1esqbsv2q19@corp.supernews.com... > Oh you make me laugh! > > Having over 20 years experience of how fundamentalist liars in the bahai > administration operate, I'm sure the offer was in bad faith, since they > refused > her inspecting the financial books she deemed relevant and which I'm sure > would have revealed their malfeasance. > > Your attempting to turn that into EVIDENCE of my manipulating the > Complaint is so laughable.... > > Tell us, if you're an honest person, a decent bahai, a model of virtue, > an examplar for others, who do you work for in the bahai administration? > > It's a well known fact that Maniac works for Gharidian. Who's your boss? > And what's your job title? Assistant what? > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > "Rick Schaut" wrote in message > news:9ad38908mg@news2.newsguy.com... > > > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > > news:tcje1glqdh5623@corp.supernews.com... > > > The New Mexico lawsuit reads: > > > > > Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records > > > 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an > > > inaccurate and inequitable manner. > > > 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in > the > > > corporate books. > > > 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah > Buchhorn > > > informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their > > > financial books. Defendants refused. > > > > What I'd like to know is why Mr. Glaysher has seen fit to quote paragraphs > > 17-19 of the complaint while failing to also quote paragraph 20: > > > > "20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow > named > > Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the > > Plaintiff deemed in bad faith." > > > > Yet again, Mr. Glaysher appears to be interested in discussing only some > of > > the facts, but not all of them. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rick Schaut > > > > > > ---------- From: Dermod Ryder[SMTP:Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 5:58 PM To: Frederick Glaysher; lotusapt@wxc.com.au Subject: Re: Full Steam Ahead Hi Guys, Second Part - E-mail to ??????? START MESSAGE Dear ?????, Please bear with me on this ...have been absolutely frantic since I found this when I realised that something awful for our beloved Faith was going to happen at national convention ... haven't been able to work out until now what to do about it ... spent many sleepless nights praying and hoping it wasn't true ... but it is. What happened was that I went into the office of another person I work with who is also a Bahai. I had wanted him to get me some information from his Pc but as he wasn't there I went to look for myself. This message was in his inbox and I didn't mean to read it but just noticed there was something wrong about it so I did read it. I was so shocked I didn't know what to do. All I could think off was to copy it onto a disk which I managed to do before he came back to the office ... we have been friends for years and I brought him into the Faith and now he has sold out to the covenant breakers. I can't even tell you who he is because I would lose my job ... he would see to that if I did. I can't go the local assembly because nobody would believe he would be involved in anything like that .. I just didn't know what to do. Do somethinng to stop this before it is too late. I cannot bear the thought of our beloved Faith being made a laughing stock by the covenant breakers. I don't understand it ... he isn't even using his right name on this. What is New Mexico? Please do something to stop this. I will praying for your success in this. END Opinions please! If it is swallowed you realise they may try to enlist this charecter as a spy to find out more. We could denounce Maneck as an undercover liberal and Shit too as an agent provocateur. As nothing will happen at Wilmette how do I explain this - due to their increased vigilance scaring the activists off? This has possibilities - the more I think of it. Need to leak it to a gullible real fundie ABM. Suggestions! I could use a privacyx to send and/or hotmail to receive - set up the hotmail a/c giving the ABM and you guys the password - but no publicity until we choose to share it with the world. I would think if we could elicit a solicitation to spy it could be good - Francis Dingle with real style. As ever, Dermod. ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:06 PM Subject: Re: > bahai < - LAWSUIT - $10,000 STOLEN - FRAUD & LIBEL in New Mexico Let's try it again: Tell us, if you're an honest person, a decent bahai, a model of virtue, an examplar for others, who do you work for in the bahai administration? It's a well known fact that Maniac works for Gharidian. Who's your boss? And what's your job title? Assistant what? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:9afn090b3i@news2.newsguy.com... > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:tcm1esqbsv2q19@corp.supernews.com... > > Oh you make me laugh! > > So long as you don't demand that I buy you a new keyboard, then we've > accomplished something positive. That's good. > > > Your attempting to turn that into EVIDENCE of my manipulating the > > Complaint is so laughable.... > > I didn't manipulate the complaint at all. All I did was quote a paragraph > you left out of your post. > > > Tell us, if you're an honest person, a decent bahai, a model of virtue, > > an examplar for others, who do you work for in the bahai administration? > > Well, as Mr. McKenny has pointed out, the implications of your attempt to > discredit me as a person are rather clear. Thank you. > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: Re: > bahai < - LAWSUIT - $10,000 STOLEN - FRAUD & LIBEL in New Mexico Randy, Thanks for explaining all that to me. None of it had ever occurred to me! Now I got it!!! Duh, are you suggesting some of this might apply to Mr. Shout? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Randy Burns" wrote in message news:BhIy6.465$ir6.159419@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net... > Dear Fred > > We Baha'is don't like to discuss such things because that would give others > the wrong impression. > > If we admit to the public that the high morals standards of the faith > occasionally produce an embezzler or the like, other religious groups will > laugh at us and pour scorn over our high moral standards. We will be ruined > in that community as an arbiter of high moral standards for decades to come. > > Any such admissions would lead to the "disintegration of the Baha'i > community...masses of people would become inactive or leave the Faith." in > the words of a House of Justice member. > > The duty of the Institutions and of the Baha'is is clear here: pretend it > didn't happen and hope that no one notices. > > Cheers, Randy > -- > > Patrick Henry wrote in message > news:tcm2rd8vgkgj13@corp.supernews.com... > > Oh, incidentally, what about that $10,000 discrepancy? > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > www.fglaysher.com > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > > news:tcm1esqbsv2q19@corp.supernews.com... > > > Oh you make me laugh! > > > > > > Having over 20 years experience of how fundamentalist liars in the bahai > > > administration operate, I'm sure the offer was in bad faith, since they > > > refused > > > her inspecting the financial books she deemed relevant and which I'm > sure > > > would have revealed their malfeasance. > > > > > > Your attempting to turn that into EVIDENCE of my manipulating the > > > Complaint is so laughable.... > > > > > > Tell us, if you're an honest person, a decent bahai, a model of virtue, > > > an examplar for others, who do you work for in the bahai administration? > > > > > > It's a well known fact that Maniac works for Gharidian. Who's your boss? > > > And what's your job title? Assistant what? > > > > > > -- > > > Frederick Glaysher > > > www.fglaysher.com > > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > > > > > "Rick Schaut" wrote in message > > > news:9ad38908mg@news2.newsguy.com... > > > > > > > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > > > > news:tcje1glqdh5623@corp.supernews.com... > > > > > The New Mexico lawsuit reads: > > > > > > > > > Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records > > > > > 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in > > an > > > > > inaccurate and inequitable manner. > > > > > 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy > in > > > the > > > > > corporate books. > > > > > 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah > > > Buchhorn > > > > > informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect > > their > > > > > financial books. Defendants refused. > > > > > > > > What I'd like to know is why Mr. Glaysher has seen fit to quote > > paragraphs > > > > 17-19 of the complaint while failing to also quote paragraph 20: > > > > > > > > "20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow > > > named > > > > Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that > > the > > > > Plaintiff deemed in bad faith." > > > > > > > > Yet again, Mr. Glaysher appears to be interested in discussing only > some > > > of > > > > the facts, but not all of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Rick Schaut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:11 PM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9af5gi$gn0$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Hi, Rick. > This post is ad hominem. > M. That's all His Holy Eminence knows how to write.... Notice he's ignoring my request to tell us who his boss is. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > "Rick Schaut" (RSSchaut@home.NOSPAMcom) writes: > > "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message > > news:tcj830hgcs1fd8@xo.supernews.co.uk... > >> I am so glad that you have proved to your own satisfaction that the Courts > >> have no jurisdiction in matters religious. > > > > It seems I've demonstrated this to your satisfaction as well, or, at least, > > to a level at which you no longer have a well-reasoned response. > > > > Does that mean we can talk about the competence of this attorney, again? > > > >> > Why question the judgement of someone who would choose not to expend the > >> > money and effort to keep a license he doesn't wish to use? > > > >> Why question the judgement of a man who paid $10,000 to give up that he > > did > >> not want to keep? > > > > Your comprehension is slipping again. Methinks you're in need of some > > sleep. I'll try smaller words: > > > > He didn't care to keep the license. He could either post a $10,000 > > (Canadian) security and give up the license, or spend as much as 10 times > > that amount to fight to keep the license that he had no intention of ever > > using again. There was, however, no option for him that didn't entail > > either posting the security or paying attorneys to contest the matter. > > > > And you, with your "superior intelligence" wonder why I don't question the > > man's judgement. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rick Schaut > > > > > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:32 PM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai Mr. Shout, Just want to thank you too.... You've helped me out so much over the years.... I know I can always count on you. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message news:tcm77ogjfki71d@xo.supernews.co.uk... > > "Rick Schaut" wrote in message > news:9aee3b01quv@news2.newsguy.com... > > My word but you are a clod hopper of the first degree. You've been suckered > into a long, boring irrelevant discussion of legal issues surrounding the NM > case to demonstrate, yet again, your predisposition towards maintaining the > status quo of the AO rather than addressing disputations or differences that > arise, within a Bahai context. You 've persisted in this despite getting > clear pointers that the legal situation from the POV of Bahais is of little > real concern. Quite frankly I have more interest in UK law than US - it's > the jurisdiction under which I live. > > You haven't grasped a prime point, which Susan has, that essentially, IMO, > this case will proceed, if at all, under the legislative rules surrounding > corporations as legal entities and the way in which they conduct their > affairs. The ecclesiastical aspects of the BF don't enter in to it - no > matters of faith are involved. > > But in any case it's irrelevant. The Court will determine whether or not it > has jurisdiction and the right to intervene therefore. No amount of > rambling by you will alter that - I would suggest that you take your > thoughts on the subject to your bosses at Wilmette and leave the lawyers to > hassle over it. (My thoughts on the subject are even more irrelevant as I > live outside the jurisdiction of your Courts). > > You have also missed the broader long term picture. The Complaint is > already up on Fred's site and I would think that he will assiduously post > any other pertinent information that comes into the public domain. If it > gets to trial you can rest assured that every witness statement and other > evidence will be posted. > > You have only to look at the Search engines to realise that Fred gets a lot > of hits - in and of itself, that does your AO a lot of damage in terms of > bad press, as Peter would put it. Now he is very concerned about that and > rightly so. A religion that is supposed to be in an active missionary phase > should be concerned about bad publicity. For the average enquirer the > picture the BIGS give him of a united body, with "perfect" means of amicably > settling disputes, is contradicted by what Fred has posted and, mein Gott, > there's a lot of it. NM simply adds to that picture as does your recent > series of diatribes on the issue. To smugly and blithely claim that no part > of the AO is amenable to law, which is essentially what you are saying, > proffers no comfort to the niche market in which you hope(?) to gain new > adherents. (Your niche market, BTW, is thinking liberally minded people who > reject current authoritarian sects/religions). > > New people (including BIGS) are coming on the Internet every day. I know of > 2 BIGS here who have come on within the last few months who are frankly > appalled at what they have found (and others who have just started to > look) - who feel as a consequence that they have been lied to by those who > mentored them into a liberal Faith system where freedom of speech and > thought and investigation of issues pertaining to Truth were paramount. If > they leave, then the local community becomes depleted and consequential > damage flows - they are unlikely to recommend adherence to this sect, just > as I warn persons against even contemplating entry. (FYI I have recommended > the Bahai Teachings to many with the caveat that they avoid contact with or > entry into the AF itself and I have a 100% record there). The local > community is shrinking and due more to its own than my efforts. > > Win or lose if the NM case goes to trial, it will inflict further damage on > the carefully crafted image the AO likes to present. Dissidence has a habit > of spreading because the authorities spawn it by refusal to deal with the > issues and excommunication of the dissident. That's how Protestantism > divided Christianity. That's how and why the AF has been plagued with > schisms since its inception - White, Sohrab, Remey etc. Its preferred > method of dealing is to excommunicate the dissidents and proclaim that unity > has been maintained, because these people are NOT Bahais. The ultimate > contradiction of that is that little actually divides dissident from > mainstream - a lesson that Christianity has learned and is endeavouring to > apply. > > What Ms Buchhorn has demonstrated is that a Bahai can file a Complaint in > Court and that example could be catching in other dysfunctional communities. > This could be the start of a nightmarish flood of similar cases. It has the > potential for extreme longer term damage than you see - especially if the > response is only a "finger in the dyke" strategy. > > The obvious and best strategy for the AO is damage limitation - better to > get this thing settled before it goes to Court and more damaging revelations > flow - even better would be to review its procedures and initiate all > necessary amendments to ensure this doesn't happen again. I think indeed > that the Plaintiff can now sit back and await overtures from the AO - > assuming that it has the intelligence to realise this, a rather unsafe > assumption based on prior experience. > > Now I am aware of the "martyrdom" syndrome and the old adherence to > principles which you have cited. Is there anything stated in the Complaint, > which if proven, and were it to be rectified that is contrary to Bahai > principles? Is any member of the community entitled to proclaim himself as > the Voice of God? Ought not elections to be conducted in a proper fashion? > Are individuals not to be permitted to undertake teaching initiatives? > Should there not be proper accountability in and amongst the members in > relation to the financial management? Should restrictive conditions be > placed on a member seeing the books of account? Ought not > complaints/appeals to the NSA be dealt with in a proper, courteous, > efficient and expeditious manner and not left to gather dust for months on > end? > > Those are the real issues not your supercilious rambling about US law - on > which you have, and should have, more knowledge than me. Knowledge however > has obscured wisdom. > > NM is but a battle in a long war for the heart and soul of the BF. You > might win the battle (although I doubt it) but you've already lost the war! > In terms of that war whether NM is won or lost doesn't matter! The fallout > reinforces the Liberal wing for the longer struggle ahead because it > reinforces the broad Liberal position and further compromises marketability > of the AF in the niche in which lie the best prospects - the middle class > liberal. > > The best general on the Allied side in WW2 was Adolf Hitler. The best > advocate for the liberals is yourself, something you haven't yet realised. > Every time you miss, deliberately obfuscate, avoid or otherwise ignore the > central issue by concentration on maintaining the current AO incumbents and > their methods of remaining where they are, you strike a chord of > disaffection into enquirers or unindoctrinated new members; you alienate and > encourage withdrawals or lapses. Most people want a Faith they can be > comfortable with - they are not going to be comfortable with a Faith that > defends the indefensible, maintains or ignores corruption in its midst and > demands that they spy and report on their neighbour's life in the cause of a > false respectability. > > Keep on truckin'! You're doing a grand job! > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 6:51 AM Subject: Re: > bahai < - LAWSUIT - $10,000 STOLEN - FRAUD & LIBEL in New Mexico Mr. Shout: I'm waiting for an answer.... Who do you work for in the bahai administration? It's a well known fact that Maneck works for Gharidian, assistant auxiliary board member or whatever. Who's your boss? And what's your job title? Assistant what? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Patrick Henry" wrote in message news:tcmvkcbgrpbu11@corp.supernews.com... > Let's try it again: > > Tell us, if you're an honest person, a decent bahai, a model of virtue, > an examplar for others, who do you work for in the bahai administration? > > It's a well known fact that Maniac works for Gharidian. Who's your boss? > And what's your job title? Assistant what? > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > "Rick Schaut" wrote in message > news:9afn090b3i@news2.newsguy.com... > > > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > > news:tcm1esqbsv2q19@corp.supernews.com... > > > Oh you make me laugh! > > > > So long as you don't demand that I buy you a new keyboard, then we've > > accomplished something positive. That's good. > > > > > Your attempting to turn that into EVIDENCE of my manipulating the > > > Complaint is so laughable.... > > > > I didn't manipulate the complaint at all. All I did was quote a paragraph > > you left out of your post. > > > > > Tell us, if you're an honest person, a decent bahai, a model of virtue, > > > an examplar for others, who do you work for in the bahai administration? > > > > Well, as Mr. McKenny has pointed out, the implications of your attempt to > > discredit me as a person are rather clear. Thank you. > > > > > > Regards, > > Rick Schaut > > > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:17 AM Subject: Rick Schaut - Who's Your Boss? Who do you work for in the bahai administration? It's a well known fact that Maneck works for Gharidian, assistant auxiliary board member or whatever. Who's your boss? And what's your job title? Assistant what? For the "protection" of what? I like the way Michael McKenny has phrased it: Ad hominem is not substance.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:32 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai Michael, Highly unlikely ever to happen with this bunch of administrators.... They're trapped, hopelessly, in their own fundamentalist net and show every sign of being pulled under, deeper and deeper. We're a hopeful race. In this world of evil and lies, we need to be. I don't expect any genuine change on the part of the uhj. The shape of things to come is well set. Its ossification into an ignorant fundamentalist organization is probably now too far advanced to be reversed. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9acf8s$aem$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Greetings, Rick. > Uhm, well, what's stopping the Universal House of Justice from > stepping in and resolving differences here? I suppose considering the > past performance of the guys currently in power when it comes to doing > this, we might be grateful they've not intervened in the case. > However, at some time there could come actions by the UHJ that are > in accordance with the title and job description, including resolving > differences -- really resolving them that is. This is antipodal from > seeking to impose one authoritarian dogma and declaring the rainbow of > valid personal opinions to be invalid, except for the opinion of the > faction in power, and everyone else to have the freedom to remain silent > or to have their say outside the entity Hooper, Doug and their buddies > control. > So, if there are differences, and, if their job is to resolve such > differences, what are they waiting for? Do they need an invitation from > the disagreeing parties? Every dawn brings a new day during which those > in charge of Baha'i have another opportunity to be true Baha'i guides > for a species quite some distance from harmony. > Here's to the day the UHJ begins functioning as what it was meant > to be, and what humanity can benefit from. > M. > > > "Rick Schaut" (RSSchaut@home.NOSPAMcom) writes: > > > > If that's the case, then why does the complaint fail to mention any effort > > to bring these issues to the attention of the Universal House of Justice? > > Wouldn't it be equally reasonable to suspect that the complaint was filed in > > a New Mexico court because the plaintiff doesn't recognize the authority of > > the Universal House of Justice to settle matters which have caused > > differences among the members of the Baha'i Faith? > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:23 AM Subject: Re: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing For the non-bahai observer, perhaps glancing here out of curiosity over the New Mexico lawsuit, let me say these claims made against me by the fundamentalists are false. None of them are true but calculated to discredit me, while shifting the subject from the NM lawsuit to one of ad hominem and character assassination. If you read the lawsuit Complaint carefully, you'll notice that these types of tactics are itemized there as used against the plaintiffs. New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Brian F. Walker" wrote in message news:9079706A2drwalkerfsandpcom@202.76.4.10... > Perhaps, Fred, you would comment on the following points: > > patrick_henry@liberty.com (Patrick Henry) wrote in > : > > >Despite the slander of many fundamentalists among my > >fellow bahais, > > Slander - you mean by this that Baha'is point out that you are telling > lies, and back it up with pertinent facts. > > > >I have been a member of the bahai faith since 1976. > > You may have enrolled in 1976, but you are no longer a member of the Baha'i > Faith. You may be a Baha'i,but you are not on the rolls. Your flouted card > is out of date, invalid - and you know it. You are a liar. > > >My ID Card may be found on my main bahai page. I have > >never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the > >contrary. > > You said, I believe (and I can only go by the words you yourself used) that > you had threatened to sue the AO, NSA, and anyone else who got in contact > with you. Perhaps that is a reason why you have not been contacted? I mean > - they are simply respecting your own demands. So what gives - should they > contact you and get a law suit, or leave you alone and allow you to slander > them? > > You may want to comment on the points, but I suspect you will not. You do > not have either the courage or the wit. You may well respond with one of > your boring repeat posts. > > Brian > > Still last on your list to be killfiled - and demanding to be raised a > notch or two. ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Rapid Dechristianization of the Masses The suggestion by this bahai fundamentalist that the hamstrung bahai administration has something superior to offer should be compared to the charges laid out in the recently filed New Mexico Lawsuit: New Mexico LAWSUIT for FRAUD & LIBEL against bahai institutions 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Mesbah" wrote in message news:kG2z6.549$h4.14016@jekyl.ab.tac.net... We have only to look around us, as we survey the fortunes of Christian ecclesiastical orders, to appreciate the steady deterioration of their influence, the decline of their power, the damage to their prestige, the flouting of their authority, the dwindling of their congregations, the relaxation of their discipline, the restriction of their press, the timidity of their leaders, the confusion in their ranks, the progressive confiscation of their properties, the surrender of some of their most powerful strongholds, and the extinction of other ancient and cherished institutions. Indeed, ever since the Divine summons was issued, and the invitation extended, and the warning sounded, and the condemnation pronounced, this process, that may be said to have been initiated with the collapse of the temporal sovereignty of the Roman Pontiff, soon after the Tablet to the Pope had been revealed, has been operating with increasing momentum, menacing the very basis on which the entire order is resting. Aided by the forces which the Communist movement has unloosed, reinforced by the political consequences of the last war, accelerated by the excessive, the blind, the intolerant, and militant nationalism which is now convulsing the nations, and stimulated by the rising tide of materialism, irreligion, and paganism, this process is not only tending to subvert ecclesiastical institutions, but appears to be leading to the rapid dechristianization of the masses in many Christian countries. (Shoghi Effendi: The Promised Day is Come, Pages: 103-104) see also: https://bci.org/edmonton.bahais/ ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Who's Your Boss? Who do you work for in the bahai administration? It's a well known fact that Maneck works for Gharidian, assistant auxiliary board member or whatever. Who's your boss? And what's your job title? Assistant what? For the "protection" of what? Ad hominem is not substance.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:9al4ir013mp@news2.newsguy.com... > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:tcr9d1ladhg478@corp.supernews.com... > > Who do you work for in the bahai administration? > > I'm not employed by any institution. > > > I like the way Michael McKenny has phrased it: > > Ad hominem is not substance.... > > Fred, don't you notice at least a small amount of incongruity between your > demands about my supposed "Boss" and the statement that "Ad hominem is not > substance"? > > I mean, really. If you keep this up, keyboards all over the world will be > croaking from coffee baths. > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Rick Schaut - Who's Your Boss? Who do you work for in the bahai administration? It's a well known fact that Maneck works for Gharidian, assistant auxiliary board member or whatever. Who's your boss? And what's your job title? Assistant what? For the "protection" of what? Ad hominem is not substance.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:9al4ir013mp@news2.newsguy.com... > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:tcr9d1ladhg478@corp.supernews.com... > > Who do you work for in the bahai administration? > > I'm not employed by any institution. > > > I like the way Michael McKenny has phrased it: > > Ad hominem is not substance.... > > Fred, don't you notice at least a small amount of incongruity between your > demands about my supposed "Boss" and the statement that "Ad hominem is not > substance"? > > I mean, really. If you keep this up, keyboards all over the world will be > croaking from coffee baths. > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai More ad hominem. Who's your boss? What do you get in return? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:9al4ot01498@news2.newsguy.com... > > "Michael McKenny" wrote in message > news:9al1k5$i3n$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > > Among many haystacks of remarks > > about personalities, so very hard to locate comments on issues. > > Then why do you keep piling hay on top of the stack? > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:23 AM Subject: Re: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing For the non-bahai observer, perhaps glancing here out of curiosity over the New Mexico lawsuit, let me say these claims made against me by the fundamentalists are false. None of them are true but calculated to discredit me, while shifting the subject from the NM lawsuit to one of ad hominem and character assassination. If you read the lawsuit Complaint carefully, you'll notice that these types of tactics are itemized there as used against the plaintiffs. New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Brian F. Walker" wrote in message news:907C73007drwalkerfsandpcom@202.76.4.10... > Fred, > > pay attention, and listen very closely: > > The subject is "The Lies Fred Tells" > > The proof is "The BIGS Card Which Is Not Valid" > > You claim the proof is wrong. A simple check with the NSA will prove you > wrong. You know this is the case, and you persist in spreading a lie. > > Fred, if you are not man enough to admit the evidence, how can anyone place > any credence ever again in any opinion you utter on a subject which is less > clear cut than the simple one of enrollment Y/N? Come on man - get with it, > be real, be a grown-up! > > Brian > > PS I am still waiting for advancement in your killfile placement. > > patrick_henry@liberty.com (Patrick Henry) wrote in > : > > >For the non-bahai observer, perhaps glancing here out > >of curiosity over the New Mexico lawsuit, let me say > >these claims made against me by the fundamentalists > >are false. None of them are true but calculated to discredit > >me, while shifting the subject from the NM lawsuit to one > >of ad hominem and character assassination. ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:31 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai The Ottawa Citizen April 27, 1994, Wednesday, FINAL EDITION Psychiatrist cuts deal on sex assault charges https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/danesh.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Brian Walker" wrote in message news:9amen8$7r3$1@news.hk.linkage.net... > Now now Dermod! > > By law all practitioners have malpractice insurance - you must not judge a > man (well, ever actually, if we want to be literal about the Scriptures) by > what a third party says about him ... unless you are just having a bit of > linguistic fun, of course! > > Brian > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:33 AM Subject: BAHAI - LAWSUIT - FULL TEXT HERE - FRAUD & LIBEL Read for yourself the full text of the filed complaint: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 8:52 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai institutions for FRAUD ho, ho, ho... Rick Schaut is NOT one sided? Who's your boss? We know you're working for some administrative hack. What is his or her name? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Rick Schaut" wrote in message news:9al4nj0145b@news2.newsguy.com... > > "Michael McKenny" wrote in message > news:9ak7an$act$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > > The point is that ad hominems are irrelevant. The absence of relevant > > text is what has been indicated, the non-existence of substance. > > Yes. Which is why there is no substance to your repeated, and extremely > one-sided (do you have Fred in a kill file?) plaints. > > > Regards, > Rick Schaut > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:10 AM Subject: Re: GUESS WHO SAID THIS ABOUT BAHA'IS A fine passage. I've added to the quotations regarding conscience, etc. Alas, they'd nail him to a cross.... A very old story. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm wrote in message news:3ad0e61f.2603227@news.aros.net... > > Exactly, > > As I menioned on another newgroup, they would have removed > Abdul-Baha's voting rights for at least two actions he exemplified > every day, first he attended Mosque every week, and you know we have > to severe all church affiliations, and second he constantly was giving > alms to beggers which is forbidden in the Aqdas. Unless of course, > there could be a more liberal interpretation of both restrictions than > what we are being interpreted. > > > > On 8 Apr 2001 16:59:06 GMT, bn872@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael > McKenny) wrote: > > >Very difficult to type with kids misbehaving in the background. > > This should read: > >Greetings, Nima. > > You are completely correct. > > Those people who have been pressured to resign from membership and > >those expelled when such pressures failed were bothered because they > >expressed articulately a viewpoint previously stated by Abdul-Baha. > > To Baha'i, > > Michael > > > > > >Michael McKenny (bn872@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes: > >> Greetings, Nima. > >> You are completely correct. > >> Those people who have been pressured by resign from membership and > >> those expelled when such pressures failed were bothered because they > >> expressed articulately a viewpoint previously stated by Abdu'l-Baha. > >> To Baha'i, > >> Michael > >> > >> "Nima Hazini" (lotusapt@wxc.com.au) writes: > >>> I tell you, if `Abdu'l-Baha were alive today he would be disenrolled by the > >>> AO for not meeting membership requirements or declared a covenant breaker. > >>> > >>> cheers, > >>> Nima > >> > >> -- > >> "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > >> (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > >> > > > > > >-- > >"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:15 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai institutions for FRAUD Gharidian too? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Susan Maneck " wrote in message news:20010407155857.22568.00004897@ng-md1.aol.com... > > > >Who's your boss? We know you're working for some > >administrative hack. What is his or her name? > > yawn > > "And we were gathered in one place, a generation lost in space, with no time > left to start again . . " > Don McLean's American Pie > https://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/ > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Who's Your Boss? Ad hominem. No substance. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Pat Kohli" wrote in message news:3ACFE2FD.A6AEEF6A@ameritel.net... > For the message that you replied to the immediate complaint address at the ISP > is: > newsabuse@supernews.com > > Recent regurges include those calling attention to the New Mexico suit as well > as the hilarious "Who do you work for" (Side A) / "Ad Hominem, as Michael sees > it" (Side B). W/ Google going slow, I don't have current counts - sorry spam > fans! > > - Pat > kohli@ameritel.net > > Susan Maneck wrote: > > > Pat, > > > > Please give us the proper address to send Fred's spam once again? > > > > warmest, Susan > > > > "And we were gathered in one place, a generation lost in space, with no time > > left to start again . . " > > Don McLean's American Pie > > https://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/ > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Who's Your Boss? Ad hominem. No substance. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Susan Maneck " wrote in message news:20010407160037.22568.00004898@ng-md1.aol.com... > Pat, > > Please give us the proper address to send Fred's spam once again? > > warmest, Susan > > "And we were gathered in one place, a generation lost in space, with no time > left to start again . . " > Don McLean's American Pie > https://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/ > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:18 AM Subject: Re: < bahai > - New Mexico LAWSUIT **against** bahai "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9antcr$e6$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Greetings, Patrick. > Could you kindly post the article here. > Thanks, > Michael Sure. I'd be happy to do so. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---- https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/danesh.htm The Ottawa Citizen April 27, 1994, Wednesday, FINAL EDITION Psychiatrist cuts deal on sex assault charges The Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons has withdrawn charges of sexual impropriety against a psychiatrist who is the past secretary general of the Baha'i faith in Canada. Dr. Hossain Banadaki Danesh, 56, was a former associate professor of psychiatry and family medicine at the University of Ottawa before joining the Baha'is of Canada, where he was secretary general from 1985 to 1989. Conditions for dropping the charges include Danesh's immediate resignation and an agreement not to practice again. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- Date: April 26, 1994 Page A8 Source: By Dale Anne Freed, Toronto Star Sex charges withdrawn when psychiatrist resigns The College of Physicians and Surgeons withdrew charges of sexual impropriety yestery against a psychiatrist who is past secretary general of the Baha'i faith in Canada. Charges were withdrawn against Dr. Hossain Banadaki Danesh in exchange for Danesh's immediate resignation and his "written undertaking not to reapply for another licence to practice medicine in Ontario or to apply to practice medicine anywhere else, at any time." He has also agreed to post $10,000 security toward costs incurred by the college in paying for therapy for the complainants. Charges were laid by three former patients. Danesh, 56, has not admitted to any sexual impropriety with any of his patients. Danesh came to Canada from Iran in 1970 and is well-known in the Baha'i community for his marital counselling and seminars, as well as his lectures on non-violence, said Gerald Filson, executive director of public affairs for the Baha'i community in Canada. A former associate professor of psychiatry and family medicine at the University of Ottawa, Danesh left that position to serve on the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of Canada, the national executive, where he was secretary general from 1985 to 1989. Formerly of Burlington, Danesh now resides on Vancouver Island and is still a member of the governing council for the Baha'i faith of Canada, Filson said. Danesh is one of nine elected members on that council. He resigns that position effective this Saturday, April 30, prior to a move to Switzerland within the next two months, where he will accept an academic post, Filson said. > > "Patrick Henry" (patrick_henry@liberty.com) writes: > > The Ottawa Citizen > > April 27, 1994, Wednesday, FINAL EDITION > > Psychiatrist cuts deal on sex assault charges > > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/danesh.htm > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:27 AM Subject: Re: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing Ad hominem. No subtance. And completely false. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Brian F. Walker" wrote in message news:907E5DBD8drwalkerfsandpcom@202.76.4.10... > From: dr.walker@fsandp.remove.com (Brian F. Walker) > Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai > Subject: Re: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing > > Fred, > > pay attention, and listen very closely: > > The subject is "The Lies Fred Tells" > > The proof is "The BIGS Card Which Is Not Valid" > > You claim the proof is wrong. A simple check with the NSA will prove you > wrong. You know this is the case, and you persist in spreading a lie. > > Fred, if you are not man enough to admit the evidence, how can anyone place > any credence ever again in any opinion you utter on a subject which is less > clear cut than the simple one of enrollment Y/N? Come on man - get with it, > be real, be a grown-up! > > Brian > > PS I am still waiting for advancement in your killfile placement. > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Please Fred Glaysher, shut these people up! Mr Mahdi, I appreciate your expressing your frustration with the slander that is regularly bandied about here by certain elements. THE FACTS: All I can say is what I have said many times: I declared my belief in Baha'u'llah in 1976. My bahai ID card may be found on my website. Despite the backbiting and slander, I have never been contacted by the bahai administration to the contrary. I must ask for your and other people's understanding that I do not wish to accept vicious and malignant attacks as emanating from Baha'u'llah's insititutions. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Mr Mahdi" wrote in message news:20010409132628.10053.00002400@ng-bj1.aol.com... > Dear Mr. Fred Glaysher, > > The fanatics as well as sincere people want some type of confirmation from the > NSA that indeed you are a member of the bahai faith. The cultists have tried > to smear your reputation by claiming that you have been removed from the > membership rolls. They have repeated this allegation again and again and many > people here are fed up with their harrassment of you. > > Fred, in order to squash all of this, please prove to all these people once and > for all that you are a member of the bahai faith by getting confirmation from > the NSA that indeed you are a "Bahai in good standing." Because without any > confirmation, these people will harrass you and those who are sincere might > doubt you because you haven't provided any evidence that can clear your name > and refute the allegations being made against you. > > Peace. > > Mahdi Muhammad > > https://members.xoom.com/mrmahdi/caliphate.html ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 7:27 AM Subject: Re: Please Fred Glaysher, shut these people up! Their allegations are false. I've said that a number of times and repeat it for those who missed it. I don't know how to say it more directly than that. Notice everytime that something comes to light like the New Mexico lawsuit, they dredge up this strategem to take off the heat. It appears to me that their delusion is that non-bahai observers who happen by will be deceived by their smoke screen tactics of character assassination and slander. I contacted the nsa when I declared my belief in Baha'u'llah. I've never contacted them and retracted that declaration. FACT: They have never contacted me. What the lying fanatics and lackies say here is meaningless backbiting, misrepresentation, and slander as far as I'm concerned.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Mr Mahdi" wrote in message news:20010409162639.20777.00001205@ng-fr1.aol.com... > Greetings Fred, > > I respect the fact that you believe that you don't have to prove to anyone here > that you are indeed a bahai. The point I was trying to make is that the > fanatics as well as some sincere people have questioned the validity of your > bahai ID card because according to someone's inquiry about your status, you > have been removed from the membership rolls. > > Now I don't know for sure if this e-mail is fabricated, but what I and other > sincere people asked for was evidence refuting the allegation that you are no > longer a bahai. > > You have the right to not try to "prove" your status as a bahai by contacting > the NSA and asking them for confirmation. According to the allegations of some > bahais, you have threatened to sue if certain bahai institutions contacted you. > If you want, may you clear this up because according to these people, the main > reason why the bahai authorities haven't contacted you is because you > threatened to sue them if they did. > > I would like to ask you this: if the fanatics in the NSA actually did remove > you from their membership rolls, do you consider this as something not binding > on your status as a bahai OR an example of how they have tried to drive you out > the bahai faith by removing you from their membership rolls? > > Peace. > > Mahdi Muhammad > > https://members.xoom.com/mrmahdi/caliphate.html ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 7:29 AM Subject: Re: Please Fred Glaysher, shut these people up! After over four years of observing the tactics of bahai fundamentalists, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always smear and attack the individual. 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for non-bahais that the individual is unbalanced, aberrant, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject. 5. Shift to the past and argue over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses "review" to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to disucss anything with them is simple a waste of time and energy. I have many interests in life. Documenting bahai fundamentalism is only one of them. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts.They're intended for the uninformed.... And they will be staying on the newsgroups I choose as long as bahai censorship and deceit continue. It should be evident to informed people that fundamentalists desire to suppress all knowledge of their suppression and coercion of bahais and non-bahais over the last decade or more now. I am only interested in preserving the record of what bahai fundamentalists have done. Others may read it and decide for themselves. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how low bahai fanatics have been willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai webpages.... It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so long..... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Nima Hazini" wrote in message news:9ats6o$lm8$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > Fred, > > Don't rub shoulders with the devil, even if it is self-servingly championing > your cause. You are better than that. > > cheers, > Nima > > "Patrick Henry" wrote in message > news:N0nA6.159577$W05.30321266@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com... > Mr Mahdi, > > I appreciate your expressing your frustration with the > slander that is regularly bandied about here by certain > elements. > > THE FACTS: > All I can say is what I have said many times: I declared my > belief in Baha'u'llah in 1976. My bahai ID card may > be found on my website. Despite the backbiting and > slander, I have never been contacted by the bahai > administration to the contrary. > > I must ask for your and other people's understanding > that I do not wish to accept vicious and malignant attacks > as emanating from Baha'u'llah's insititutions. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > "Mr Mahdi" wrote in message > news:20010409132628.10053.00002400@ng-bj1.aol.com... > > Dear Mr. Fred Glaysher, > > > > The fanatics as well as sincere people want some type of confirmation from > the > > NSA that indeed you are a member of the bahai faith. The cultists have > tried > > to smear your reputation by claiming that you have been removed from the > > membership rolls. They have repeated this allegation again and again and > many > > people here are fed up with their harrassment of you. > > > > Fred, in order to squash all of this, please prove to all these people > once and > > for all that you are a member of the bahai faith by getting confirmation > from > > the NSA that indeed you are a "Bahai in good standing." Because without > any > > confirmation, these people will harrass you and those who are sincere > might > > doubt you because you haven't provided any evidence that can clear your > name > > and refute the allegations being made against you. > > > > Peace. > > > > Mahdi Muhammad > > > > https://members.xoom.com/mrmahdi/caliphate.html > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 7:31 AM Subject: Re: Validity of membership in the Faith After over four years of observing the tactics of bahai fundamentalists, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always smear and attack the individual. 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for non-bahais that the individual is unbalanced, aberrant, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject. 5. Shift to the past and argue over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses "review" to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to disucss anything with them is simple a waste of time and energy. I have many interests in life. Documenting bahai fundamentalism is only one of them. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts.They're intended for the uninformed.... And they will be staying on the newsgroups I choose as long as bahai censorship and deceit continue. It should be evident to informed people that fundamentalists desire to suppress all knowledge of their suppression and coercion of bahais and non-bahais over the last decade or more now. I am only interested in preserving the record of what bahai fundamentalists have done. Others may read it and decide for themselves. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how low bahai fanatics have been willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai webpages.... It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so long..... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Saman Ahmadi" wrote in message news:3AD29031.C1F3A5F6@worldnet.att.net... > > Could someone who is not in Fred's killfile, or whom > would otherwise know, explain why it is important > for Fred to be considered a Baha'i in good standing? > > Also, why doesn't Fred realize that the mere fact that > Fred has a Baha'i ID card does not mean that he is > necessarily a Baha'i in good standing? I have a health > insurance card from the last company at which I worked - > I doubt that any doctor would accept it. > > -saman > > > > > > ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:39 AM Subject: Stendhal "But how," he thought, "can one believe in this great name of GOD, after the frightful abuse that our priests make of it?" --Julien Sorel Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Dermod Ryder[SMTP:Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:53 PM To: Nima Hazini; Steven Scholl; Fred Glaysher Subject: Operation Bolero Lads, I am pleased to tell you that Operation Bolero was commenced tonight with the despatch of the following message to the National Headquarters of Henderson's Horrors. I shall personally defenestrate anybody who breaches security on this operation until after National Convention - indeed I shall bear any burden and pay any air fare so to do. Please keep your ears open in the periods of and after that event to ascertain if this has had any effect. As ever, Dermod. PS For Steve - The LBS is the Liberal Bahai Society or Load of Bull Shit - dependent on your own perspective! Tally Ho! Dear Friends, Please bear with me on this ...have been absolutely frantic since I found this when I realised that something awful for our beloved Faith was going to happen at national convention ... haven't been able to work out until now what to do about it ... spent many sleepless nights praying and hoping it wasn't true ... but it is. What happened was that I went into the office of another person I work with who is also a Bahai. I had wanted him to get me some information from his Pc but as he wasn't there I went to look for myself. This message was in his inbox and I didn't mean to read it but just noticed there was something wrong about it so I did read it. I was so shocked I didn't know what to do. All I could think off was to copy it onto a disk which I managed to do before he came back to the office ... we have been friends for years and I brought him into the Faith and now he has sold out to the covenant breakers. I can't even tell you who he is because I would lose my job ... he would see to that if I did. I can't go the local assembly because nobody would believe he would be involved in anything like that .. I just didn't know what to do. Do somethinng to stop this before it is too late. I cannot bear the thought of our beloved Faith being made a laughing stock by the covenant breakers. I don't understand it ... he isn't even using his right name on this. What is New Mexico? Please do something to stop this. I will praying for your success in this. START Of Copied Message Jim, Everybody seems happy enough with the operational plan for Bolero. Only such details as need to be disclosed now to operatives are to be disclosed. We'll give everybody the full details afterwards. The names have been left blank - you can insert for your operatives in the US when you issue. As it is being used in other areas I thought it best to just issue one plan and everybody can insert the names of their own people into it. So far 3 other zones have indicated they expect to be ready on the day. To answer your specific other inquiries and explain the plan further: - 1. Final timings have got to be left to the people on the ground. It all hinges on when we get our guy inserted in the speaking order. When he reaches the microphone controller will alert everybody to stand by. When the speaker gives the signal that is the time for them to distribute the bundles of documents. Impress on your people the need for total vigilance and concentration so as to be ready to go both when controller issues the stand by directive and when the speaker gives the signal to start their part of the operation. Good idea might be to have floor director contact controller on each new speaker. Get your own people to decide that. 2. Impress on your guys that if the chairman attempts to suppress the speaker - when he leaves the microphone, they are immediately to distribute the documents and leave. You must impress on them that this is legitimate, peaceful, democratic consultation and protest and nothing else. 3. The LBS manifesto and other docs. will have to be in place beforehand. The problem is bulk. Suggestions include splitting the bundle over a number of people - each one brings in his own for distribution. For the floor - up to 100 bundles - we have 3-4 delegates, each brings in his own in a laptop bag for example. Same for the public gallery. If everybody brings in their own that saves having to meet and distribute from a central point. Also if they get wind of it beforehand, that there are up to a dozen bundles coming in means that we can still achieve impact even if they locate one or two. 4. The manifesto and NM Court Docs etc together with other local stuff should be prepared at one location, collated into bundles and collected beforehand by our people. I see no problem with that. Even if they suspect we're going to do this they haven't the resources to trace the warehouse. Only problem is getting it all in without being spotted. If we achieve that we achieve full surprise and full impact. 5. While the delegates who will be distributing the bundles can know, but preferably shouldn't know each other, it is imperative that the speaker is not known in advance. Without him there's no game in town. I suggest that you only inform the Controller who he is. He can then alert the distributors via the director - say 10-15 minutes or so dependent on the speaking order and our guy's place in it, if the opportunity presents itself. To cover slip ups the speaker will talk crud for a few minutes before getting to the real point of the exercise. 6. Controller is to remain in place, incognito throughout the operation. Arrange appropriate hand off signals from him to the director who then distributes it to the rest. He is specifically to remain in place if the walkout has to be executed so we get full assessment of the reaction. If the director is not discovered he is to remain too but that's one for the people on the ground on the day. 7. If we can't get cameras/recording equipment in openly then bring in covert gear. Quality will not be as good but better than nothing. Operative can run tests on D-1 to assess best angles etc. in any case as a contingency. 8. Impress on everybody the absolute necessity not to hang out together. Casual meetings and greetings are OK but shouldn't exceed 30 sec. at absolute maximum. All last minute inquiries or questions should go to the Controller via the signal method we have already briefed. 9. Best not to give advance notice to the press. This has to be a tight op - we get one go at it. If the press is informed in advance there's a chance of a leak (the AO is so far up its ass that we can't take the chance) and the Chair will close the hall to the public etc. and we lose impact. The way the plan is formulated is that the Controller phones (via mobile) as soon as our people execute it. Your center then has to send the E-mails to the press, TV, etc. New Mexico was a godsend - it tipped the waverers and provided the opportunity for this operation so lets go to it. Come back to me at any time with any other inquiries. If we keep this one tight, we can get maximum impact for minimal collateral damage. One thing for sure they're going to know we're out there and we mean business. Moe. ---------- From: Patrick Henry[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 5:46 PM Subject: Re: The Baha'is: Christians of the Second Advent Through FRAUD & LIBEL? FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD 2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm "Mesbah" wrote in message news:SURA6.1428$h4.30985@jekyl.ab.tac.net... The Baha'is: Christians of the Second Advent The Baha'i Faith is not a "Church", but an independent World Religion. It seeks to establish the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. The Baha'i Faith accepts Jesus Christ as "the Very Savior of Man". It accepts the Bible as the "Word of God", but not the only Word of God. It accepts Christianity as a True Religion, but not the only True Religion; nor the last Revelation of God for mankind. Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for OUR DAY; meaning our time. We believe He is our "Heavenly Father" come in the flesh; just as the Son did. Baha'is also accept Jesus as a Manifestation of God and the Only Begotten Son of God, but not the ONLY "Son of God". Even Adam is referred to as "the Son of God". (Luke 3:38) cont'd at: https://ldsbf.freeyellow.com/jesus.html ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Bahá'í Curricula for Moral Education Ahhh, moral education? See FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Mesbah" wrote in message news:fv1D6.2665$h4.51483@jekyl.ab.tac.net... Bahá'í Curricula for Moral Education Bahá'í communities are increasingly turning their attention to the need for moral education in society at large, and now more than ever before Bahá'í initiatives in this field are gaining the attention of leaders of society who are searching for new ways to address a general decline in morality. Bahá'ís around the world are affirming the cardinal position of the principle of education by establishing and organizing permanent universities, primary and secondary schools, seasonal schools, children's classes, training institutes, and programs of religious and moral education. cont'd at: https://www.bci.org/edmonton.bahais/id47.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:08 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT - Re: Lamentation of the Pulpits FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm -- "Mesbah" wrote in message news:4MmC6.2488$h4.45149@jekyl.ab.tac.net... I was walking in the Land of Ta (Tihran) - the dayspring of the signs of thy Lord - when lo, I heard the lamentation of the pulpits and the voice of their supplication unto God, blessed and glorified be He. They cried out and said: "O God of the world and Lord of the nations! Thou beholdest our state and the things which have befallen us by reason of the cruelty of Thy servants. Thou hast created us and revealed us for Thy glorification and praise. Thou dost now hear what the wayward proclaim upon us in Thy days. By Thy might! Our souls are melted and our limbs are trembling. Alas, alas! Would that we had never been created and revealed by Thee!" The hearts of them that enjoy near access to God are consumed by these words, and from them the cries of such as are devoted to Him are raised. Time and again have We, for the sake of God, admonished the distinguished divines, and summoned them unto the Most Sublime Horizon, that perchance they might, in the days of His Revelation, obtain their portion of the ocean of the utterance of Him Who is the Desire of the world, and remain not utterly deprived thereof. In most of Our Tablets this most weighty exhortation hath been sent down from the heaven of His all-encompassing mercy. We said: "O concourse of rulers and divines! Incline your ears unto the Voice calling from the horizon of Akka. Verily, it aideth you to proceed aright, and draweth you nigh unto Him, and directeth your steps towards the station which God hath made the dayspring of His Revelation and the Dawning-Place of His splendors. O peoples of the world! He Who is the Most Great Name is come, on the part of the Ancient King, and hath announced unto men this Revelation which lay hid in His knowledge, and was preserved in the treasury of His protection, and was written down by the Most Sublime Pen in the Books of God, the Lord of Lords. O people of Shin (Shiraz)! Have ye forgotten My loving-kindness and My mercy that have surpassed all created things, and which proceeded from God Who layeth low the necks of men?" (Baha'u'llah: Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Pages: 127-128) see also: https://www.bci.org/edmonton.bahais/id494.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Toppling the Baha'i Faith, or Saving It? I agree with much of what Dermod has so eloquently stated here. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message news:9brmcd$ao5n2$1@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de... > > "GS Goldberg" wrote in message > news:11383-3AE0E6FD-196@storefull-168.iap.bryant.webtv.net... > > Is there anyone here actively trying to discredit and ultimately disband > > the Baha'i faith (other than Mr. Mahdi, I guess)? What exactly are > > those of you trying to achieve when you attack the Faith, its teachings > > or its principals? Many Baha'is I know consider talk.religion.bahai and > > alt.religion.bahai nothing more than slanderous poison. I'd like to > > know exactly where the contributors to this discussion group are coming > > from and what is your objective. > > I cannot speak for other than myself on this one - not for those I count as > "liberals" for want of a better definition and certainly not for those who > appear as "fundamentalists". > > You are quite correct in stating that many Bahais regard these fora as > "slanderous poison" and I would guess that few either know in detail or > comprehend the issues that have been raised here and are/were the subject of > the discourse. You see a lot of "liberals" believe that the expulsion of > Alison Marshall and Michael McKenny, without due prior consultation, was an > act of fascist terrorism. They think that the New Mexico law suit is long > overdue as the national institutions either ignore or connive in the type of > alleged corruption that is at its heart. They view the suppression of > "Dialogue", the mendacious denunciation of "A Modest Proposal" and the > purging of liberals from the Faith as being contrary to its principles. > They see a Faith that numerically is in decline and therefore not fulfilling > its mission. They observe Bahais acquiescing in this decline, unconcerned > about it, perhaps even secretly encouraging it to better further their > ambitions to attain rank within the administrative order. > > They see apologists arise not with answers but with cant - those who say > that such things CANNOT happen within the Faith as they are not SUPPOSED to > happen within the Faith and nary a one sees or wishes to see the fallacy > inherent in this stance. > > And therein lies the rub - a religion at whose core is CONSULTATION and > investigation of truth performs neither. Bahais don't know and don't want > to know the liberal argument because they prefer the comfort of ignorance; > the fear that knowledge or acceptance of its veracity will undermine their > faith in the administrative order, whose very word they have been told is > infallible. > > But the Faith is not the AO - the AO exists to serve it, not be the object > thereof. The real Faith doesn't need an AO - it has to do with the heart > and the actions of the individual. The real Faith is inclusivist, not > doctrinaire. You can talk in terms of Unity in Diversity and think that if > you have many racial groups included you have diversity. That is only and > the easiest form of unity in diversity. The real thing is reconciling, > accepting and tolerating people of vastly differing belief systems. How do > you get Jew and Arab to co-exist peacefully in the Middle East, Serb and > Muslim in the Balkans, Catholic and Protestant in Northern Ireland? You do > it through a long arduous process of fostering acceptance, mutual respect, > tolerance, mediation and conflict resolution. This involves, inter alia, > bringing contending parties to the table for consultation on their > differences. You cannot change or undo those differences but you can lead > people to a lessening of fear, a building of respect and confidence and a > living together, if not in love then at least in peace. > > There is no consultation within the BF - it throws the liberals out and so > they gather here and other places and put their argument, often (and why > not?) in a robust fashion. > > I can't say whether it will result in a saving of the BF or not - I can > however say that if you want to save the BF (and that decision lies with the > Bahais alone), certain things will have to change - like the attitude which > expels rather than reconciles. Personally I think it is of little > consequence whether the BF is saved or not - for truth is that the > Revelation lives in the world, belongs to the world (and not the BF) and is > slowly being worked through. > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Question: What is Bahaii ? The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "La6red9nec" wrote in message news:20010422205334.15344.00000413@ng-ft1.aol.com... > >Subject: Re: Question: What is Bahaii ? > > > It's a brain washing cult integrated into a sophisticated marekting scam > organization. > Similar to Jim Jones cult, or the Moonies, etc... > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 2:52 PM Subject: Re: invalid argument HHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAaA HHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA HHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAaa.......... What a FFFFFFAAAAAARRRRRCCCCCEEEEE!!!!! Thanks for drawing our attention to that one! Where, oh where, did those MILLIONS GO.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9c1c7a$sc3$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Top o' the Mornin' to You, Pat. > Wow! Boy have I missed something here. 100,000 Baha'is in India. > Gee, a few years back they were telling me the number was nudging two > million. Has a little accounting error been set right or is there a > story here? The Case of the Vanishing Indian Baha'is. I guess whichever > maybe that Indian experience may not be the most positive thing to have > on one's resume. > Awaiting Clarification, > M. > Pat Kohli (kohli@ameritel.net) writes: > > Allahu Abha! > > > > Though you might suppose that the secretary of the Indian NSA has > > experience in dealing with a community of 100,000 or so Baha'is in a third > > world country, the actual NSA members who do the voting seem to disagree. > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Re: invalid House of Justice Elections As a former Catholic, I find these observations quite interesting and suggestive. Using the itc in this way does indeed seem to mimic the Church of Rome. All things made new? Not in this world.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Michel Boucher" wrote in message news:Xns908C73D4D4315mortimertherat@207.181.101.12... > u375701904@spawnkill.ip-mobilphone.net a écrit dans > : > > > Now, one gets to be counselor at the ITC by > > appointment. If the ITC counselors are now > > the candidate pool for UHJ membership, which > > is what the voting pattern of the past decade > > and a half demonstrates, then *appointment > > of a male counselor to the ITC is a form of > > nomination*. > > Interesting how it follows the model of the Church of Rome: Pope > appoints Cardinals who select next Pope from amongst themselves > (usually). Must be *some* good to that system if God's Newest > Experiment (tm applied for) chooses to use it rather than the one > provided for in the brochure :-) > > --------------- > > ObFood: May the forks be with you. > > To send private mail, get the zed out. > ICQ: 69205479 (take the five out) ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 6:53 AM Subject: Re: Waiting for Godot. Anyone know when the lawsuit goes to trial? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9c7nvm$92k$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Hi, Dermod. > Many thanks for letting us know that she has waited 14 months and > the clock is still ticking. Let us know if they ever respond. It will > also be interesting to hear how the lawsuit turns out. > Thrive, > Michael > > "Dermod Ryder" (Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com) writes: > > > > Affirmative to both points, Michael - we still have many miles to go and > > many rivers to cross! I'm sure you have noticed that the folks from the AO > > have dropped out of this one. Methinks they already the final result of > > this little old thread - hope they don't go and spoil the fun by posting the > > final figure before I get to do so! The race is on! > > > > As ever, > > > > Dermod. > > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 7:54 AM To: FG@home.com Subject: NEWS RELEASE - Lawsuit filed against Baha'i Faith for Fraud & Libel NEWS RELEASE - Lawsuit filed against Baha'i Faith for Fraud & Libel FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Frederick Glaysher -- 248-651-3380 668 Bolinger, Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 USA The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm In early March 2001, a lawsuit was filed in New Mexico against local and national Baha'i administrative institutions. For well over a decade numerous individual Baha'is have attempted to draw attention to abuses of conscience within the Baha'i Faith. Deborah Buchhorn's lawsuit epitomizes much of their concerns and grievances and will publicly reveal an oppressive side of the Baha'i Faith that very few Americans realize exists behind the veneer of world peace and global brotherhood. For more information, contact Frederick Glaysher, above, or the attorney for the Plaintiffs, whose phone number appears at the end of the Complaint. Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan's Department of History may also be reached at 734-???-????. Frederick Glaysher is available for print, radio, or TV interviews. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FULL TEXT: SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself and for MINORITY MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, Plaintiffs, vs. (No. CV 2001-01978) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, a non-profit corporation, and the NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF THE UNITED STATES, an Illinois Corporation, Defendants. VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD, LIBEL, BREACH OF CORPORATE DUTIES, AND DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF COMES NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record, Yorgos D. Marinakis, and for their Complaint states as follows: INTRODUCTION 1. Plaintiffs file this shareholder or member derivative suit against: - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly, or LSA), - their Trustees, and - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly, or NSA), with whom the Local Spiritual Assembly and itsTrustees have privity. 2. Plaintiffs allege that Trustees breached their duties as corporate officers. 3. Plaintiffs allege that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of deciding appeals owed to Plaintiffs. 4. Plaintiffs allege that the literature review policies of the Local Spiritual Assembly and the National Spiritual Assembly, which lie in privity, unlawfully prevent shareholders from their right to communicate with other shareholders. 5. Plaintiffs allege that Defendants failed to execute their duties under their corporate by-laws. PARTIES 6. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn was a shareholder or member of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the time of the incidents stated in this Complaint, and she continues to be a member. 7. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly) is a New Mexico non-profit corporation. Shareholder-members may appeal decisions by the Local Spiritual Assembly to the National Spiritual Assembly. 8. The Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Trustees) individually reside in Bernalillo County, New Mexico, as a condition of their Trusteeship. Trustees are Kambiz Victory, Ok-Sun and John McHenry, Manijeh Kavelin, Nelson Sapad, Harry and Sondra Day, Owen Creightney, and Carol Caldwell. Jenny Beery was a Trustee during the time of many of these incidents. 9. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly) is incorporated in and has its principal place of business in Illinois. FACTS 10. The Bahá'í have no clergy. Instead, each community in the Bahá'í Faith annually elects nine Trustees or a "Local Spiritual Assembly," which acts as an agent or subsidiary of the National Spiritual Assembly. Each National Spiritual Assembly answers to the supreme Bahá'í body, The Universal House of Justice. The Universal House of Justice established the Continental Board of Counsellors (sic) to assist them, and the Countinental Board of Counsellors further has the Auxiliary Board to assist them. 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. 12. Although Plaintiffs have consistently complied with Defendant Trustees' demands, they have also consistently filed complaints against them with the National and International Bahá'í authorities. This has enraged the Defendant Trustees. 13. Defendant Trustees have never made specific accusations or informed Plaintiffs of wrongdoing, other than vague statements such as "you have issues with the Spiritual Assembly." 14. Therefore, deep-seated animosities and distrust have arisen between Plaintiffs and the Trustees, which are incapable of resolution and thereby present an irreconcilable barrier to the ability of the corporation to function as is. 15. Plaintiffs' reasonable expectations that they would be able to participate in the management and activities of their corporation, as minority shareholders, have been thwarted since at least 1995. 16. Article IV of the LSA by-laws provides that the LSA shall compose differences and disagreements among members of the community. Article VII, section 9 of the NSA by-laws provides that any member of a Bahá'í community may appeal from a decision of his LSA to the NSA. Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an inaccurate and inequitable manner. 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the corporate books. 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their financial books. Defendants refused. 20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow named Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the Plaintiff deemed in bad faith. Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. Electioneering 22. At the Annual Meeting Feast of 1999, Defendant Trustees fraudulently rigged the election of Trustee Nelson Sapad by calling for applause for him three times prior to an election of corporate officers. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 23. Defendant Trustees or their agents fraudulently rigged the election of Harry and Sondra Day, by introducing them and calling for applause moments before an election of corporate officers. 24. Trustees do not ensure secret balloting at the Annual Meeting Feast. The usual practice is not to use a ballot box, but for members to lay their ballots on a plate or in a basket in plain sight of the election tellers. Ms. Buchhorn appealed to Brent Poirier on at least one election. Mr. Poirier responded by handling the collection basket himself. 25. In the member newsletter and prior to the annual election and during the Annual Meeting Feast, Trustees have used scriptural quotes to draw attention to persons serving on certain committees. Fraudulent and Oppressive Behavior Relating to the TV Show "Spiritual Reality" 26. Plaintiffs conceptualized and produced a TV show named "Spiritual Reality." After 100 showings, during which Defendant Trustees only complimented Plaintiffs, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, mandated major changes in the show. Plaintiffs complied and appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 27. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiffs to "temporarily postpone" their television show, "Spiritual Reality." Plaintiff complied, and Defendants never specifically informed Plaintiffs what they had done to precipitate the arbitrary and capricious termination. The effect of this order, namely the termination of the TV show, violated the right of shareholders to communicate with other shareholders. 28. Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences stated that the reasons for termination would be fully discussed at a later meeting, at which meeting those reasons were never discussed. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory, employee of channel 41, knew or should have known that a television program cannot be "temporarily postponed." Plaintiffs appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 29. Defendant Kambiz Victory, a Trustee, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, told named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn in regards to her television show that "Your teaching can have no effect because you are not in unity with the Spiritual Assembly." Defendant knew that Ms. Buchhorn's television show brought in 15% of the information requests during an unrelated major regional advertising campaign by Defendants. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 30. Defendant Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences set-up Plaintiffs to a "confession" of their animosity towards Defendant Trustees. Named Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Other Oppression 31. As an act of individual initiative, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn organized a Bahá'í parade float for several years for the New Mexico State Fair Parade. In 2000, Defendant Trustees convened a task force to organize the parade float for that year. On August 22, 2000, approximately 19 days before the parade, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, instructed Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to terminate her parade float activities. A false reason for this termination was published in the membership newsletter by Defendant Trustees, causing Plaintiff embarrassment. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 32. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to receive instruction on the Bahá'í Covenant. Plaintiff complied and attended that "instruction," which in fact consisted of three (3) hours of interrogation by Trustee Owen Creightney, and John and Ok-Sun McHenry. It became apparent at this meeting that Trustee Creightney had lied to the Trustees in order to oppress named Plaintiff. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 33. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to resign from the Bahá'í gospel choir. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 34. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, undermined named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's Saturday Night Coffee House and in effect stopped her Coffee House. Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to these circumstances. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 35. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, have ordered numerous Bahá'ís to shun Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn. 36. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory told a Plaintiff "I am the voice of God in this community." Libel 37. Defendant Trustees knowingly published false and defamatory information about Plaintiffs in the Albuquerque Bahá'í newsletter, specifically relating to the parade banner. Unlawful Prevention of Communication between Shareholders 38. Defendant National Spiritual Assembly has the policy that Local Spiritual Assemblies are responsible for reviewing pamphlets and newsletters and materials that mention the Faith such as songs, play scripts, souvenir items, and greeting cards, intended for publication or distribution within their communities, whereas the National Spiritual Assembly is responsible for review of those same materials intended for nationwide publication. CAUSES OF ACTION Count I 39. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 40. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly acted and continue to act fraudulently towards the Plaintiffs. 41. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count II 42. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 43. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly libeled the named Plaintiff. 44. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count III 45. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 46. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in good faith, which failure constitutes fraud. 47. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IV 48. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporates all previous paragraphs. 49. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act with the care an ordinary prudent person in like position would exercise under similar circumstances, which failure constitute fraud.50. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count V 51. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 52. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in a manner they reasonably believe to be in the best interests of the corporation and its members, which failure constitutes fraud. 53. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VI 54. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 55. The Trustees have repeatedly failed their duty to compose differences and disagreements with themselves and the members, in violation of their by-laws, which failure constitutes fraud. 56. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VII 57. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 58. The National Spiritual Assembly has repeatedly failed their duty to hear appeals from Plaintiffs, in violation of their by-laws. 59. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VIII 60. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 61. The literature review policies of the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies violate the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 62. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IX 63. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 64. The practice of the Local Spiritual Assembly to direct members not to speak about their dealings with the LSA with other corporate members violates the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 65. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. JUDICIAL RELIEF WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiffs request that this Court: 1. Declare that the Trustees acted fraudulently towards Plaintiffs; 2. Declare that Trustees libeled Plaintiffs; 3. Declare that the Trustees breached their corporate duties towardsPlaintiffs; 4. Remove the Trustees from their positions and enjoin them from serving in official Bahá'ís capacities for nineteen (19) years; 5. Remove the LSA Directors who are also Trustees; 6. Declare that the Local Spiritual Assembly violated members' rights to inspect corporate books and records; 7. Compel Defendant LSA to retain an independent certified public accountant to audit the books for the last two years; 8. Declare that Defendant LSA violated their corporate by-laws by failing to compose differences and disagreements among members of the community; 6. Declare that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of hearing Plaintiffs' appeals; 7. Declare that the literature review policies of the Bahá'ís violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 8. Enjoin Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and Local Spiritual Assembly from enforcing their literature review policy; 9. Declare that the secrecy practices of the Local Spiritual Assembly violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 10. Enjoin Defendant Local Spiritual Assembly from continuing their secrecy practices; 11. Award compensatory damages from Defendants to Plaintiffs; 12. Award attorney's fees and costs to Plaintiffs; 13. Any other relief this Court deems appropriate. Respectfully submitted, ___________________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) Named Plaintiff's Verification STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss. COUNTY OF BERNALILLO) COMES NOW Deborah Buchhorn, and being duly sworn, states as follows: 1. I have read and understood the contents of this Complaint. 2. I have personal knowledge of the facts stated herein. 3. I attest to and verify their truth and accuracy.__________________________ DEBORAH BUCHHORN SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me this __ day of ______, 2001. ________________________ Notary Public My Commission Expires: ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 7:59 AM To: Fred Glaysher Cc: Juan Cole Subject: NEWS RELEASE - Lawsuit filed against Baha'i Faith for Fraud & Libel NEWS RELEASE - Lawsuit filed against Baha'i Faith for Fraud & Libel FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Frederick Glaysher -- 248-651-3380 668 Bolinger, Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 USA The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm In early March 2001, a lawsuit was filed in New Mexico against local and national Baha'i administrative institutions. For well over a decade, numerous individual Baha'is have attempted to draw attention to abuses of conscience within the Baha'i Faith. Deborah Buchhorn's lawsuit epitomizes much of their concerns and grievances and reveals an oppressive side of the Baha'i Faith that very few Americans realize exists behind the veneer of world peace and global brotherhood. For more information, contact Frederick Glaysher, above, or the attorney for the Plaintiffs, whose phone number appears at the end of the Complaint. Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan's Department of History may also be reached at 734-???-????. Frederick Glaysher is available for print, radio, or TV interviews. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FULL TEXT: SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself and for MINORITY MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, Plaintiffs, vs. (No. CV 2001-01978) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, a non-profit corporation, and the NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF THE UNITED STATES, an Illinois Corporation, Defendants. VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD, LIBEL, BREACH OF CORPORATE DUTIES, AND DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF COMES NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record, Yorgos D. Marinakis, and for their Complaint states as follows: INTRODUCTION 1. Plaintiffs file this shareholder or member derivative suit against: - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly, or LSA), - their Trustees, and - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly, or NSA), with whom the Local Spiritual Assembly and itsTrustees have privity. 2. Plaintiffs allege that Trustees breached their duties as corporate officers. 3. Plaintiffs allege that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of deciding appeals owed to Plaintiffs. 4. Plaintiffs allege that the literature review policies of the Local Spiritual Assembly and the National Spiritual Assembly, which lie in privity, unlawfully prevent shareholders from their right to communicate with other shareholders. 5. Plaintiffs allege that Defendants failed to execute their duties under their corporate by-laws. PARTIES 6. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn was a shareholder or member of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the time of the incidents stated in this Complaint, and she continues to be a member. 7. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly) is a New Mexico non-profit corporation. Shareholder-members may appeal decisions by the Local Spiritual Assembly to the National Spiritual Assembly. 8. The Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Trustees) individually reside in Bernalillo County, New Mexico, as a condition of their Trusteeship. Trustees are Kambiz Victory, Ok-Sun and John McHenry, Manijeh Kavelin, Nelson Sapad, Harry and Sondra Day, Owen Creightney, and Carol Caldwell. Jenny Beery was a Trustee during the time of many of these incidents. 9. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly) is incorporated in and has its principal place of business in Illinois. FACTS 10. The Bahá'í have no clergy. Instead, each community in the Bahá'í Faith annually elects nine Trustees or a "Local Spiritual Assembly," which acts as an agent or subsidiary of the National Spiritual Assembly. Each National Spiritual Assembly answers to the supreme Bahá'í body, The Universal House of Justice. The Universal House of Justice established the Continental Board of Counsellors (sic) to assist them, and the Countinental Board of Counsellors further has the Auxiliary Board to assist them. 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. 12. Although Plaintiffs have consistently complied with Defendant Trustees' demands, they have also consistently filed complaints against them with the National and International Bahá'í authorities. This has enraged the Defendant Trustees. 13. Defendant Trustees have never made specific accusations or informed Plaintiffs of wrongdoing, other than vague statements such as "you have issues with the Spiritual Assembly." 14. Therefore, deep-seated animosities and distrust have arisen between Plaintiffs and the Trustees, which are incapable of resolution and thereby present an irreconcilable barrier to the ability of the corporation to function as is. 15. Plaintiffs' reasonable expectations that they would be able to participate in the management and activities of their corporation, as minority shareholders, have been thwarted since at least 1995. 16. Article IV of the LSA by-laws provides that the LSA shall compose differences and disagreements among members of the community. Article VII, section 9 of the NSA by-laws provides that any member of a Bahá'í community may appeal from a decision of his LSA to the NSA. Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an inaccurate and inequitable manner. 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the corporate books. 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their financial books. Defendants refused. 20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow named Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the Plaintiff deemed in bad faith. Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. Electioneering 22. At the Annual Meeting Feast of 1999, Defendant Trustees fraudulently rigged the election of Trustee Nelson Sapad by calling for applause for him three times prior to an election of corporate officers. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 23. Defendant Trustees or their agents fraudulently rigged the election of Harry and Sondra Day, by introducing them and calling for applause moments before an election of corporate officers. 24. Trustees do not ensure secret balloting at the Annual Meeting Feast. The usual practice is not to use a ballot box, but for members to lay their ballots on a plate or in a basket in plain sight of the election tellers. Ms. Buchhorn appealed to Brent Poirier on at least one election. Mr. Poirier responded by handling the collection basket himself. 25. In the member newsletter and prior to the annual election and during the Annual Meeting Feast, Trustees have used scriptural quotes to draw attention to persons serving on certain committees. Fraudulent and Oppressive Behavior Relating to the TV Show "Spiritual Reality" 26. Plaintiffs conceptualized and produced a TV show named "Spiritual Reality." After 100 showings, during which Defendant Trustees only complimented Plaintiffs, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, mandated major changes in the show. Plaintiffs complied and appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 27. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiffs to "temporarily postpone" their television show, "Spiritual Reality." Plaintiff complied, and Defendants never specifically informed Plaintiffs what they had done to precipitate the arbitrary and capricious termination. The effect of this order, namely the termination of the TV show, violated the right of shareholders to communicate with other shareholders. 28. Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences stated that the reasons for termination would be fully discussed at a later meeting, at which meeting those reasons were never discussed. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory, employee of channel 41, knew or should have known that a television program cannot be "temporarily postponed." Plaintiffs appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 29. Defendant Kambiz Victory, a Trustee, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, told named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn in regards to her television show that "Your teaching can have no effect because you are not in unity with the Spiritual Assembly." Defendant knew that Ms. Buchhorn's television show brought in 15% of the information requests during an unrelated major regional advertising campaign by Defendants. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 30. Defendant Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences set-up Plaintiffs to a "confession" of their animosity towards Defendant Trustees. Named Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Other Oppression 31. As an act of individual initiative, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn organized a Bahá'í parade float for several years for the New Mexico State Fair Parade. In 2000, Defendant Trustees convened a task force to organize the parade float for that year. On August 22, 2000, approximately 19 days before the parade, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, instructed Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to terminate her parade float activities. A false reason for this termination was published in the membership newsletter by Defendant Trustees, causing Plaintiff embarrassment. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 32. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to receive instruction on the Bahá'í Covenant. Plaintiff complied and attended that "instruction," which in fact consisted of three (3) hours of interrogation by Trustee Owen Creightney, and John and Ok-Sun McHenry. It became apparent at this meeting that Trustee Creightney had lied to the Trustees in order to oppress named Plaintiff. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 33. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to resign from the Bahá'í gospel choir. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 34. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, undermined named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's Saturday Night Coffee House and in effect stopped her Coffee House. Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to these circumstances. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 35. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, have ordered numerous Bahá'ís to shun Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn. 36. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory told a Plaintiff "I am the voice of God in this community." Libel 37. Defendant Trustees knowingly published false and defamatory information about Plaintiffs in the Albuquerque Bahá'í newsletter, specifically relating to the parade banner. Unlawful Prevention of Communication between Shareholders 38. Defendant National Spiritual Assembly has the policy that Local Spiritual Assemblies are responsible for reviewing pamphlets and newsletters and materials that mention the Faith such as songs, play scripts, souvenir items, and greeting cards, intended for publication or distribution within their communities, whereas the National Spiritual Assembly is responsible for review of those same materials intended for nationwide publication. CAUSES OF ACTION Count I 39. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 40. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly acted and continue to act fraudulently towards the Plaintiffs. 41. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count II 42. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 43. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly libeled the named Plaintiff. 44. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count III 45. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 46. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in good faith, which failure constitutes fraud. 47. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IV 48. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporates all previous paragraphs. 49. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act with the care an ordinary prudent person in like position would exercise under similar circumstances, which failure constitute fraud.50. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count V 51. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 52. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in a manner they reasonably believe to be in the best interests of the corporation and its members, which failure constitutes fraud. 53. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VI 54. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 55. The Trustees have repeatedly failed their duty to compose differences and disagreements with themselves and the members, in violation of their by-laws, which failure constitutes fraud. 56. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VII 57. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 58. The National Spiritual Assembly has repeatedly failed their duty to hear appeals from Plaintiffs, in violation of their by-laws. 59. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VIII 60. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 61. The literature review policies of the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies violate the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 62. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IX 63. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 64. The practice of the Local Spiritual Assembly to direct members not to speak about their dealings with the LSA with other corporate members violates the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 65. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. JUDICIAL RELIEF WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiffs request that this Court: 1. Declare that the Trustees acted fraudulently towards Plaintiffs; 2. Declare that Trustees libeled Plaintiffs; 3. Declare that the Trustees breached their corporate duties towardsPlaintiffs; 4. Remove the Trustees from their positions and enjoin them from serving in official Bahá'ís capacities for nineteen (19) years; 5. Remove the LSA Directors who are also Trustees; 6. Declare that the Local Spiritual Assembly violated members' rights to inspect corporate books and records; 7. Compel Defendant LSA to retain an independent certified public accountant to audit the books for the last two years; 8. Declare that Defendant LSA violated their corporate by-laws by failing to compose differences and disagreements among members of the community; 6. Declare that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of hearing Plaintiffs' appeals; 7. Declare that the literature review policies of the Bahá'ís violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 8. Enjoin Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and Local Spiritual Assembly from enforcing their literature review policy; 9. Declare that the secrecy practices of the Local Spiritual Assembly violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 10. Enjoin Defendant Local Spiritual Assembly from continuing their secrecy practices; 11. Award compensatory damages from Defendants to Plaintiffs; 12. Award attorney's fees and costs to Plaintiffs; 13. Any other relief this Court deems appropriate. Respectfully submitted, ___________________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) Named Plaintiff's Verification STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss. COUNTY OF BERNALILLO) COMES NOW Deborah Buchhorn, and being duly sworn, states as follows: 1. I have read and understood the contents of this Complaint. 2. I have personal knowledge of the facts stated herein. 3. I attest to and verify their truth and accuracy.__________________________ DEBORAH BUCHHORN SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me this __ day of ______, 2001. ________________________ Notary Public My Commission Expires: ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 8:01 AM To: Juan Cole Subject: Re news release Juan, I'd like to ask you for permission to include your contact phone number in it, if you're willing. If so, send me back the number you wish to use. Any other suggestions would be welcome. Fred ---------- From: Juan Cole[SMTP:jrcole@umich.edu] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 12:12 PM To: Fred Glaysher Subject: Re: Re news release Dear Fred: I don't know more than what is in the deposition, so there is no point in my being a contact person on this one. JRIC At 08:01 AM 4/26/01 -0500, you wrote: >Juan, > >I'd like to ask you for permission to include your >contact phone number in it, if you're willing. If so, >send me back the number you wish to use. Any >other suggestions would be welcome. > >Fred > > ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:42 PM To: Juan Cole Subject: Re: Re news release Juan, My thought was your perhaps being available for general discussion regarding matters of conscience and censorship in the BF, not necessarily speaking to the details of the lawsuit. I could revise the news release along those lines: Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan's Department of History may also be reached for comment on the broader issues of conscience and free speech in the Bahai Faith during the last decade: 734-???-????. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Cole" To: "Fred Glaysher" Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 12:12 PM Subject: Re: Re news release > > Dear Fred: > > I don't know more than what is in the deposition, so there is no point in > my being a contact person on this one. > > JRIC > > At 08:01 AM 4/26/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Juan, > > > >I'd like to ask you for permission to include your > >contact phone number in it, if you're willing. If so, > >send me back the number you wish to use. Any > >other suggestions would be welcome. > > > >Fred > > > > > > ---------- From: Juan R Cole[SMTP:jrcole@umich.edu] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:09 PM To: Fred Glaysher Subject: Re: Re news release I'd prefer not, for the reasons stated. cheers Juan ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 5:23 PM To: Juan R Cole Subject: Re: Re news release As you wish. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan R Cole" To: "Fred Glaysher" Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Re news release > > I'd prefer not, for the reasons stated. > > cheers Juan > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 7:03 AM Subject: Re: bahai - LAWSUIT - ** "Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby" ** - FRAUD & LIBEL Count II 43. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly libeled the named Plaintiff. 44. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher FG@hotmail.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 8:13 AM Subject: Re: Albuquerque - some corroboration Apparently someone has decided to shift tactics? For 500+ pages on over more than a decade of "dysfunctional communities" see https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Pat Kohli" wrote in message news:3AEAD3C0.1F089E80@ameritel.net... > Allahu Abha! > > Mark Elderkin wrote: > > > Pat, > > And how is this corroboration for the lawsuit being currently exploited by > > wannabee internet lawyers? > > It suggested to me that the LSA in Albuquerque might be disfunctional, as the > suit alleges in general. > > As it happened, my source posted the story to TRB while I was walking the dog. > This story is out. > > Some of what the wannabee internet lawyers are trying to exploit is the refusal > of the Baha'i community to consider that anything might not be functioning > anywhere like a well oiled machine. I do beleive that the NSA dissolved the LA > LSA some years ago and I would hope that should have dissolved the notion that a > disfunctional LSA is impossible. So, let's alow it as possible. > > To distinguish possible from probable, let's look at evidence - there is Ms > Buchorn's, since I have no reason to suppose that she lied or is delusional, I > should give her some credence - but I am not convinced based on her lawyer's > statement alone, Along comes this source. I realize that their tone has been > flavored by their subsequent conclusions, but the details provided have > verisimilitude - plausibility. I have also read from other Albuquerque > residents. One party from Albquerque found the suit implausible, that Kambiz > Victory was the most meek, humble, gentle, etc. saint who walked the earth; that > party also implied that there was no such witness as came forth - I found them > to be of diminished credibility in the matter, they reminded me of Mahdi. I see > no point in going back there and calling that man a liar to his face - everyone > their can read what I read and draw their own conclusions - maybe I am wrong, > but I can explain why I am open-minded. > > > Are you expecting this to be entered in this > > court case or is it just for our interest? > > I had found Ms. Buchorn's allegations incredible. Someone had suggested I > should ask myself what it would take to give them any credence whatsoever. So, > I asked Nima, who had lived there, for something like this. All I got was > something to the effect 'all that' which I found ambiguous. > > I think it is important for all Baha'is to be open minded about charges of > impropriety w/in the AO. 99 times out of 100 they may be compoletely unfounded, > but if we always respond to such stories w, "Be gone, ye accursed shite eating > bacterium!" we develop the next generation of Fred Glayshers. > > I am not a New Mexico judge or jury member. I do not decide the case; and I > tend to agree that it ought to be argued in court, not here, but I do want to > say that Baha'is should not be abused by an LSA for years and that if a Baha'i > has concerns about their LSA abusing them, they should be able to get help from > the ABM and if that fails they should be able to get help from the NSA and it > should not take years (maybe months, but not years). > > My guess, though I could be completely wrong, is that is all that Dermod, Nima, > and Fred really wish to say about the sad matter. If that is all they really > wanted to say and if the point were generally conceded by Baha'is loyal to the > AO, I think the disagreement would be over. > > If there is a problem in Albuquerque, I would not want to think it should be > plastered over, or whitewashed; if there is a problem, it should get fixed. I > hope we can all agree on that. What happened to me in the last 24 hours is I > not only suppose that there could have been a problem, I'm inclined to suppose > there is a problem. > > Blessings! > - Pat > kohli@ameritel.net > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 8:27 AM Subject: Since 1968, 50% of bahais have left the religion.... On www.beliefnet.com on the bahai message board Baha'i Faith Challenge & Critique, Juan Cole commented a few weeks ago that since 1968 50% of the people who entered the bahai faith have left it. According to him, a professor of religious history and studies at the University of Michigan, the usually figure for most Christian denominations is approximately 80% retention, meaning about only 20% decide to leave once they become a member. 50% is truly a remarkably high number and reveals emphatically that something is indeed wrong about the atmosphere within the bahai faith, once one has declared one's belief and is taken into the fold to be properly censored, coerced, and manipulated.... Bahai fanatics online exude the same duplicity and dishonesty the new adherent quickly comes to realize is normative behind the facade of love and brotherhood. The FULL TEXT reveals what many of the problems are that are driving sensitive and thoughtful people out of the bahai faith in droves: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 9:10 AM Subject: Re: bahai - LAWSUIT - ** "Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby" ** - FRAUD & LIBEL Ad hominem. No content. What's clear here is the fanatics really don't care about the emotional damage inflicted by other fundamentlists in the bahai administration upon Deborah Buchhorn and similarly innocent fellow bahais. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 6:22 AM To: Fred Glaysher Subject: NEWS RELEASE - Lawsuit filed against Baha'i Faith for Fraud & Libel NEWS RELEASE - Lawsuit filed against Baha'i Faith for Fraud & Libel FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Frederick Glaysher -- 248-651-3380 668 Bolinger, Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 USA The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm In early March 2001, a lawsuit was filed in New Mexico against local and national Baha'i administrative institutions. For well over a decade, numerous individual Baha'is have attempted to draw attention to abuses of free speech and conscience within the Baha'i Faith. Deborah Buchhorn's lawsuit epitomizes their concerns and grievances and reveals an oppressive side of the Baha'i Faith that very few Americans realize exists behind the facade of world peace and global brotherhood. Further details may also be found on talk.religion.bahai on Usenet. For more information, contact Frederick Glaysher, or the Plaintiff's attorney, whose phone number appears at the end of the Complaint. Frederick Glaysher is available for print, radio, or TV interviews. AVAILABILITY: Michigan, nationwide by arrangement and via telephone; available for last-minute interviews. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FULL TEXT: SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself and for MINORITY MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, Plaintiffs, vs. (No. CV 2001-01978) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, a non-profit corporation, and the NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF THE UNITED STATES, an Illinois Corporation, Defendants. VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD, LIBEL, BREACH OF CORPORATE DUTIES, AND DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF COMES NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record, Yorgos D. Marinakis, and for their Complaint states as follows: INTRODUCTION 1. Plaintiffs file this shareholder or member derivative suit against: - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly, or LSA), - their Trustees, and - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly, or NSA), with whom the Local Spiritual Assembly and itsTrustees have privity. 2. Plaintiffs allege that Trustees breached their duties as corporate officers. 3. Plaintiffs allege that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of deciding appeals owed to Plaintiffs. 4. Plaintiffs allege that the literature review policies of the Local Spiritual Assembly and the National Spiritual Assembly, which lie in privity, unlawfully prevent shareholders from their right to communicate with other shareholders. 5. Plaintiffs allege that Defendants failed to execute their duties under their corporate by-laws. PARTIES 6. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn was a shareholder or member of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the time of the incidents stated in this Complaint, and she continues to be a member. 7. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly) is a New Mexico non-profit corporation. Shareholder-members may appeal decisions by the Local Spiritual Assembly to the National Spiritual Assembly. 8. The Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Trustees) individually reside in Bernalillo County, New Mexico, as a condition of their Trusteeship. Trustees are Kambiz Victory, Ok-Sun and John McHenry, Manijeh Kavelin, Nelson Sapad, Harry and Sondra Day, Owen Creightney, and Carol Caldwell. Jenny Beery was a Trustee during the time of many of these incidents. 9. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly) is incorporated in and has its principal place of business in Illinois. FACTS 10. The Bahá'í have no clergy. Instead, each community in the Bahá'í Faith annually elects nine Trustees or a "Local Spiritual Assembly," which acts as an agent or subsidiary of the National Spiritual Assembly. Each National Spiritual Assembly answers to the supreme Bahá'í body, The Universal House of Justice. The Universal House of Justice established the Continental Board of Counsellors (sic) to assist them, and the Countinental Board of Counsellors further has the Auxiliary Board to assist them. 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. 12. Although Plaintiffs have consistently complied with Defendant Trustees' demands, they have also consistently filed complaints against them with the National and International Bahá'í authorities. This has enraged the Defendant Trustees. 13. Defendant Trustees have never made specific accusations or informed Plaintiffs of wrongdoing, other than vague statements such as "you have issues with the Spiritual Assembly." 14. Therefore, deep-seated animosities and distrust have arisen between Plaintiffs and the Trustees, which are incapable of resolution and thereby present an irreconcilable barrier to the ability of the corporation to function as is. 15. Plaintiffs' reasonable expectations that they would be able to participate in the management and activities of their corporation, as minority shareholders, have been thwarted since at least 1995. 16. Article IV of the LSA by-laws provides that the LSA shall compose differences and disagreements among members of the community. Article VII, section 9 of the NSA by-laws provides that any member of a Bahá'í community may appeal from a decision of his LSA to the NSA. Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an inaccurate and inequitable manner. 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the corporate books. 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their financial books. Defendants refused. 20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow named Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the Plaintiff deemed in bad faith. Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. Electioneering 22. At the Annual Meeting Feast of 1999, Defendant Trustees fraudulently rigged the election of Trustee Nelson Sapad by calling for applause for him three times prior to an election of corporate officers. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 23. Defendant Trustees or their agents fraudulently rigged the election of Harry and Sondra Day, by introducing them and calling for applause moments before an election of corporate officers. 24. Trustees do not ensure secret balloting at the Annual Meeting Feast. The usual practice is not to use a ballot box, but for members to lay their ballots on a plate or in a basket in plain sight of the election tellers. Ms. Buchhorn appealed to Brent Poirier on at least one election. Mr. Poirier responded by handling the collection basket himself. 25. In the member newsletter and prior to the annual election and during the Annual Meeting Feast, Trustees have used scriptural quotes to draw attention to persons serving on certain committees. Fraudulent and Oppressive Behavior Relating to the TV Show "Spiritual Reality" 26. Plaintiffs conceptualized and produced a TV show named "Spiritual Reality." After 100 showings, during which Defendant Trustees only complimented Plaintiffs, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, mandated major changes in the show. Plaintiffs complied and appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 27. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiffs to "temporarily postpone" their television show, "Spiritual Reality." Plaintiff complied, and Defendants never specifically informed Plaintiffs what they had done to precipitate the arbitrary and capricious termination. The effect of this order, namely the termination of the TV show, violated the right of shareholders to communicate with other shareholders. 28. Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences stated that the reasons for termination would be fully discussed at a later meeting, at which meeting those reasons were never discussed. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory, employee of channel 41, knew or should have known that a television program cannot be "temporarily postponed." Plaintiffs appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 29. Defendant Kambiz Victory, a Trustee, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, told named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn in regards to her television show that "Your teaching can have no effect because you are not in unity with the Spiritual Assembly." Defendant knew that Ms. Buchhorn's television show brought in 15% of the information requests during an unrelated major regional advertising campaign by Defendants. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 30. Defendant Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences set-up Plaintiffs to a "confession" of their animosity towards Defendant Trustees. Named Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Other Oppression 31. As an act of individual initiative, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn organized a Bahá'í parade float for several years for the New Mexico State Fair Parade. In 2000, Defendant Trustees convened a task force to organize the parade float for that year. On August 22, 2000, approximately 19 days before the parade, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, instructed Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to terminate her parade float activities. A false reason for this termination was published in the membership newsletter by Defendant Trustees, causing Plaintiff embarrassment. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 32. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to receive instruction on the Bahá'í Covenant. Plaintiff complied and attended that "instruction," which in fact consisted of three (3) hours of interrogation by Trustee Owen Creightney, and John and Ok-Sun McHenry. It became apparent at this meeting that Trustee Creightney had lied to the Trustees in order to oppress named Plaintiff. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 33. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to resign from the Bahá'í gospel choir. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 34. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, undermined named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's Saturday Night Coffee House and in effect stopped her Coffee House. Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to these circumstances. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 35. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, have ordered numerous Bahá'ís to shun Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn. 36. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory told a Plaintiff "I am the voice of God in this community." Libel 37. Defendant Trustees knowingly published false and defamatory information about Plaintiffs in the Albuquerque Bahá'í newsletter, specifically relating to the parade banner. Unlawful Prevention of Communication between Shareholders 38. Defendant National Spiritual Assembly has the policy that Local Spiritual Assemblies are responsible for reviewing pamphlets and newsletters and materials that mention the Faith such as songs, play scripts, souvenir items, and greeting cards, intended for publication or distribution within their communities, whereas the National Spiritual Assembly is responsible for review of those same materials intended for nationwide publication. CAUSES OF ACTION Count I 39. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 40. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly acted and continue to act fraudulently towards the Plaintiffs. 41. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count II 42. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 43. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly libeled the named Plaintiff. 44. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count III 45. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 46. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in good faith, which failure constitutes fraud. 47. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IV 48. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporates all previous paragraphs. 49. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act with the care an ordinary prudent person in like position would exercise under similar circumstances, which failure constitute fraud.50. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count V 51. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 52. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in a manner they reasonably believe to be in the best interests of the corporation and its members, which failure constitutes fraud. 53. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VI 54. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 55. The Trustees have repeatedly failed their duty to compose differences and disagreements with themselves and the members, in violation of their by-laws, which failure constitutes fraud. 56. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VII 57. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 58. The National Spiritual Assembly has repeatedly failed their duty to hear appeals from Plaintiffs, in violation of their by-laws. 59. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VIII 60. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 61. The literature review policies of the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies violate the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 62. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IX 63. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 64. The practice of the Local Spiritual Assembly to direct members not to speak about their dealings with the LSA with other corporate members violates the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 65. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. JUDICIAL RELIEF WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiffs request that this Court: 1. Declare that the Trustees acted fraudulently towards Plaintiffs; 2. Declare that Trustees libeled Plaintiffs; 3. Declare that the Trustees breached their corporate duties towardsPlaintiffs; 4. Remove the Trustees from their positions and enjoin them from serving in official Bahá'ís capacities for nineteen (19) years; 5. Remove the LSA Directors who are also Trustees; 6. Declare that the Local Spiritual Assembly violated members' rights to inspect corporate books and records; 7. Compel Defendant LSA to retain an independent certified public accountant to audit the books for the last two years; 8. Declare that Defendant LSA violated their corporate by-laws by failing to compose differences and disagreements among members of the community; 6. Declare that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of hearing Plaintiffs' appeals; 7. Declare that the literature review policies of the Bahá'ís violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 8. Enjoin Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and Local Spiritual Assembly from enforcing their literature review policy; 9. Declare that the secrecy practices of the Local Spiritual Assembly violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 10. Enjoin Defendant Local Spiritual Assembly from continuing their secrecy practices; 11. Award compensatory damages from Defendants to Plaintiffs; 12. Award attorney's fees and costs to Plaintiffs; 13. Any other relief this Court deems appropriate. Respectfully submitted, ___________________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) Named Plaintiff's Verification STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss. COUNTY OF BERNALILLO) COMES NOW Deborah Buchhorn, and being duly sworn, states as follows: 1. I have read and understood the contents of this Complaint. 2. I have personal knowledge of the facts stated herein. 3. I attest to and verify their truth and accuracy.__________________________ DEBORAH BUCHHORN SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me this __ day of ______, 2001. ________________________ Notary Public My Commission Expires: ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 7:55 AM Subject: Re: A Seeker's Guide to Baha'i Newsgroups (One Person's View) "Roger Reini" wrote in message news:bHPtOpvSpfZTLOpSTWYOCkC4DoMG@4ax.com... > A Seeker's Guide to Bahá'í Newsgroups > (One person's view) > > Composed by Roger Reini (roger@rreini.com) > Last revised April 30, 2001 > > This document will be posted on a periodic basis (bi-weekly or > monthly) to alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai. > > NOTE: The following document reflects the opinion of the author only > and should not be taken as an authoritative position of the Bahá'í > Faith or any of its Institutions. > > You, the seeker, are reading this document because: > > a) you have heard about the Bahá'í Faith and want to learn about > it, and > b) you are trying to learn what Usenet resources are devoted to > discussing the Faith. > > There are currently three newsgroups devoted to discussions about the > Bahá'í Faith: > · soc.religion.bahai > · alt.religion.bahai > · talk.religion.bahai NOTE WELL: According to soc.religion.bahai's FAQ, there is only one: soc.religion.bahai > All three newsgroups are open to Bahá'ís and non-Bahá'ís. FALSE. soc.religion.bahai is CLOSED to many, many people. See my regular repost of their testimonies to that effect. > > soc.religion.bahai > > Of the three newsgroups devoted to the Bahá'í Faith, > soc.religion.bahai (SRB) is by far the oldest. It was created in the > early 1990's. Its purpose, according to the FAQ, is "act as a > non-threatening forum for discussing and sharing information about the > tenets, history, and texts of the Bahá'í Faith." Both Bahá'ís and > non-Bahá'ís are welcome to post to the newsgroup. FALSE again for the same reasons. > > SRB is a moderated newsgroup. A team of moderators reviews every > submission for its appropriateness to the discussion and for its > exemplifying the standards of Bahá'í consultation (basically, in this > context, following accepted netiquette procedures; the FAQ goes into > more detail). This moderation filters out off-topic discussions and > keeps on-topic discussions civil and smooth. Posts are not moderated > for on-topic content, with one exception: "Posts which argue for or > promote a succession of authority outside the Covenant of Bahá'u'lláh > will not be posted" (quoting from the FAQ). This is to avoid engaging > in discussions with Covenant breakers or their followers (more on > Covenant breaking later). CENSORED, not moderated.... > The official FAQ for SRB is located at > https://www.bcca.org/services/srb/welcome.html. Which does not mentiont the existence of alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai, both of which were vehemently opposed by the fundamentalists running soc.religion.bahai > > alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai > > These newsgroups are younger, having been created in April 1997 and > February 1999, respectively. They were created because the main > proponent of talk.religion.bahai, frustrated with having his posts > rejected by the SRB moderators, wanted to create an unmoderated forum > for discussing the Bahá'í Faith. Alt.religion.bahai (ARB) was created > in response to the first attempt to create talk.religion.bahai (TRB), > which ended in failure. On the third attempt, TRB passed. Ad hominem. And a FALSE picture of events. For details of trb & arb creation, see https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/trbmenu.htm > > Unlike SRB, alt.religion.bahai (ARB) and talk.religion.bahai (TRB) are > unmoderated. Anyone can freely post to them on any topic he/she > wishes, though netiquette calls for posts to be related to the Bahá'í > Faith. As a result, these newsgroups give the appearance of "anything > goes." The discussions tend to be coarser than discussions on SRB; > few posts reflect the true standards of Bahá'í consultation. As a > result, many Bahá'ís stay away from these groups. THE FACT is many bahais are certainly frightened away by the fundamentalists who will harass and malign them should they dare post anything that does not reflect received opinion to either one, branding them covenant breakers, etc.... > > Many of the posts to these newsgroups are from individuals who are > opposed to the Bahá'í Faith or certain aspects of it. Some are from > individuals from other religious traditions (Christian, Muslim, > Buddhist, etc.) and attempt to refute the teachings of the Faith. > Some are from former Bahá'ís who object to certain teachings of the > Faith or certain actions of Bahá'í administrative bodies. Some are > from individuals who have been declared "Covenant Breakers" by the > Universal House of Justice, or are from followers of such individuals. > > Covenant breaking involves challenging the lawfully established > authority of the Bahá'í Faith. Bahá'u'lláh, the Founder of the Bahá'í > Faith, established several institutions that govern the affairs of the > Bahá'í community. At His passing (or His ascension, as Bahá'ís refer > to it), He conferred ultimate authority for the Faith to His eldest > son, 'Abdu'l-Bahá, saying that all were to turn to Him. Similarly, > 'Abdu'l-Bahá passed this authority to His eldest grandson, Shoghi > Effendi, who became the first Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith. Now > Shoghi Effendi was unable to name a successor to himself as Guardian, > for he had no children and all other male descendents of Bahá'u'lláh > had been declared Covenant breakers. So when he passed on, there was > no successor. Some of the responsibilities of the Guardian, in his > capacity as Head of the Faith, were assumed by the Universal House of > Justice, which had been established by Bahá'u'lláh but not elected > until 1963. Other aspects of the Guardian's authority could not be > assumed by the House, so they are no longer exercised. Rebelling > against the Head of the Faith, at any time, is treated as though one > is rebelling against God. For the protection of the community, those > rebels are expelled from the Faith. Believers are warned not to > become involved with them in any way; that includes directly > responding to them in discussion groups. They are also counseled to > avoid discussions that begin with words and end with words (i.e., > serve no real purpose) or discussions that are undignified. > > Note that there is a distinction between those who have been expelled > from the Faith for breaking the Covenant and those who have left the > Faith because they did not believe in Bahá'u'lláh and His teachings. > > In the opinion of this writer, it is not true that the majority of the > messages on ARB and TRB are posted by Covenant breakers or their > followers. > > Advice to the seeker > > This FAQ is subtitled "One person's view," and in the view of the > author, seekers wanting to learn about the Bahá'í Faith should stick > to soc.religion.bahai, at least initially. He/she will learn about > the Faith initially from a Bahá'í perspective rather than from the > perspective of opponents of the Faith. Later on, if he/she has a > strong stomach, the seeker could decide to monitor ARB and TRB, > keeping in mind that it will not reflect the high standards of the > Faith. > > If one decides to participate in discussions on ARB and TRB, he/she > should be aware that some participants like to crosspost their > postings to several unrelated newsgroups, causing the readers of those > other newsgroups to become irritated. When replying, make sure that > the responses go only to ARB and TRB. > > Roger (roger@rreini.com) > https://www.rreini.com/ What is meant here by "from a Bahai perspective" is from a bahai fundamentalist perspective.... Notice much implicit ad hominem, i.e., we've got the Truth and so on. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 7:56 AM Subject: Re: A Seeker's Guide to Baha'i Newsgroups (One Person's View) This file contains observations on soc.religion.bahai censorship: ---------------------------------------------------- SOC.RELIGION.BAHAI: Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998: "I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb84.htm Ron House: "I think the following is a clear case of malicious rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of soc.religion.bahai." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb53.htm Timothy Mulligan: "(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those SRB moderators." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb59.htm RobertNik: "these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb54.htm Bruce Burrill: "What are Baha'i afraid of?" https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb60.htm Zuteflute: "Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb50.htm YU ZIR: "But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to address." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb46.htm Matthew Cromer: "The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles which they agree with...." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb47.htm Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:"So many Bahais on these forumshave shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb77.htm Shakti3, December 4, 1998: "Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit, seeing the way these newsgroups operate." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/Ex7.htm Harold Shinsato: "It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb33.htm Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998: "The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the controversy started, it has gotten worse." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb79.htm Laeterna: "To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was putting it mildly indeed." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/censored2.htm Robin Peters: "I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the face of consistent censorship." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb43.htm jgoldberg: "I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. " https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb57.htm Ruletherod, November 17, 1998: "Too much damage has already been done in the name and to the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies, linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You can't just blame it all on the critics." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb76.htm Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under soc.religion.bahai censorship. https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb.htm The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 7:25 AM Subject: Fundamentalists Regrouping for propaganda assault Appears so to me.... The bigs video event approaches, available even on the Internet.... Yes, time to muddy the waters in preparation.... Sad. How sad. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 7:41 AM Subject: SOC.RELIGION.BAHAI - censorship This file contains observations on soc.religion.bahai censorship: ---------------------------------------------------- SOC.RELIGION.BAHAI: Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998: "I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb84.htm Ron House: "I think the following is a clear case of malicious rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of soc.religion.bahai." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb53.htm Timothy Mulligan: "(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those SRB moderators." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb59.htm RobertNik: "these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb54.htm Bruce Burrill: "What are Baha'i afraid of?" https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb60.htm Zuteflute: "Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb50.htm YU ZIR: "But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to address." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb46.htm Matthew Cromer: "The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles which they agree with...." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb47.htm Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:"So many Bahais on these forumshave shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb77.htm Shakti3, December 4, 1998: "Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit, seeing the way these newsgroups operate." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/Ex7.htm Harold Shinsato: "It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb33.htm Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998: "The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the controversy started, it has gotten worse." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb79.htm Laeterna: "To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was putting it mildly indeed." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/censored2.htm Robin Peters: "I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the face of consistent censorship." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb43.htm jgoldberg: "I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. " https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb57.htm Ruletherod, November 17, 1998: "Too much damage has already been done in the name and to the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies, linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You can't just blame it all on the critics." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb76.htm Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under soc.religion.bahai censorship. https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb.htm -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Baha'u'llah & Abdu'l-Baha, Liars? It seems to me that the belief that the uhj is going to reform itself appears to be wishful thinking. There is no EVIDENCE to support it. I therefore have to believe the shape is set for times to come. It's also plausible that the uhj has inevitably disclosed what the bahai faith *is* and has been all along.... It's just as likely that the uhj has been following the examples of both Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha: public support and deceitful expressions of largely liberal and progressive values while concealing inveterate ignorance and fundamentalism, calculated to "win" unsuspecting converts.... A conclusion difficult to escape given the past decade, thoroughly documented on my website. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Since 1968, 50% of bahais have left the religion.... NOTE WELL that bahai fundamentalists can't respond to THESE FACTS.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" wrote in message news:teo22rhb2fkh2d@corp.supernews.com... > On www.beliefnet.com on the bahai message board > Baha'i Faith Challenge & Critique, Juan Cole commented > a few weeks ago that since 1968 50% of the people > who entered the bahai faith have left it. According to him, > a professor of religious history and studies at the University > of Michigan, the usually figure for most Christian denominations > is approximately 80% retention, meaning about only 20% > decide to leave once they become a member. > > 50% is truly a remarkably high number and reveals emphatically > that something is indeed wrong about the atmosphere within > the bahai faith, once one has declared one's belief and is taken > into the fold to be properly censored, coerced, and manipulated.... > Bahai fanatics online exude the same duplicity and dishonesty > the new adherent quickly comes to realize is normative behind > the facade of love and brotherhood. > > The FULL TEXT reveals what many of the problems are that are > driving sensitive and thoughtful people out of the bahai faith in droves: > New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 8:26 AM Subject: Re: Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... Credo.... "The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions." --Abdu'l-Baha ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects , but it remains always and forever one. Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife in your hearts." --Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, 53. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants." --Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "This is a goodly temple and congregation, for--praise be to God!--this is a house of worship [Central Congregational Church in Brooklyn on 16 June 1912] wherein conscientious opinion has free sway. Every religion and every religious aspiration may be freely voiced and expressed here. Just as in the world of politics there is need for free thought, likewise in the world of religion there should be the right of unrestricted individual belief. Consider what a vast difference exists between modern democracy and the old forms of despotism. Under an autocratic government the opinions of men are not free, and development is stifled, whereas in a democracy, because thought and speech are not restricted, the greatest progress is witnessed. It is likewise true in the world of religion. When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable. Therefore, this is a blessed church because its pulpit is open to every religion, the ideals of which may be set forth with openness and freedom." --Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Roy Hilbinger" wrote in message news:542325.NGJXVTFY@news.aiconnect.com... > On Fri, 4 May 2001 07:34:55 -0500 "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" wrote: > > > Baha'u'llah is the Prophet of God for mankind in this day > > and age. > > > > > I have never repudiated my belief in Baha'u'llah nor the > > legitimacy of his institutions. > > Uh-huh! Is that why you have on your website prominent links to a Christian and a Muslim website, both of which out and out call Baha'u'llah a false prophet and a master of deceit? > > I know, I know! Now you're gonna spam out the post about how the fundamentalists engage in character assassination. But Fred, those links are there, in the face of your professed belief in Baha'u'llah. It's all there in black and white. It's not character assassination to point out blatant inconsistency. Do you really think nobody sees what you're doing? Do you actually *know* what you're doing? I wonder sometimes! > > Regards, > Roy > -- > *************************************************************** > "Behold a candle, how it gives its light. It weeps its life away > drop by drop in order to give forth its flame of light." > ~ 'Abdu'l-Baha > *************************************************************** > > Visit my website: > https://www.aiconnect.com/~arhil/Welcome/ > "You'll be glad you did!" > > ICQ# 92215158 > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > https://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 8:30 AM Subject: New Mexico LAWSUIT - FULL TEXT HERE FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 7:46 AM Subject: Re: Baha'u'llah & Abdu'l-Baha, Liars? ad hominem. no content. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Roger Reini" wrote in message news:3AF43E84.EF162EB9@rreini.com... > Let's see -- in your periodic "Credo" posts, and by your current nom de > plume (BIGS), you profess faith and belief in Baha'u'llah. But in this > message, you accuse Him of "deceitful expressions", "ignorance and > fundamentalism." > > You can't have it both ways. > > Roger (roger@rreini.com) > > BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing wrote: > > > > It seems to me that the belief that the uhj is going to reform itself > > appears to be wishful thinking. There is no EVIDENCE to support > > it. I therefore have to believe the shape is set for times to come. It's > > also plausible that the uhj has inevitably disclosed what the > > bahai faith *is* and has been all along.... > > > > It's just as likely that the uhj has been following the examples of > > both Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha: public support and deceitful > > expressions of largely liberal and progressive values while concealing > > inveterate ignorance and fundamentalism, calculated to "win" > > unsuspecting converts.... > > > > A conclusion difficult to escape given the past decade, thoroughly > > documented on my website. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > www.fglaysher.com > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2001 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Albuquerque - some corroboration Michael, Another way of viewing such a "response" is that it's a demonstration of the bahai system of checks and balances.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9d14h0$smh$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Hi, Rick. > I've often said here in Baha'i cyberspace that nothing anyone > supposedly attacking the Baha'i Faith says could match what flows out > of the mouths, or keyboards, of Doug and his buddies and their self- > declared supporters. > Of course, Baha'i texts allow for people contacting Baha'i authorities > to receive a timely response -- response being defined as an answer, a > reply, a communication from the authority to the person initially > contacting them. And, of course, the anti-democratically minded may also > extract from the ocean of Baha'i text that such authority may respond to > appeals addressed to them by tossing, without notice, them in waste paper > baskets. Yes, both are understandings, subjectively valid understandings, > of the word response. > Most humans (other than the tyrants in charge of syestem B) have > preferred to live under administrators whose understanding of response > had them getting back to people who contacted them with complaints and > appeals -- such getting back to not being defined as without warning > declaring them heretics. > To the Better Kind of Response, > Michael > > "Rick Schaut" (RSSchaut@home.NOSPAMcom) writes: > > "Michael McKenny" wrote in message > > news:9cu9ln$hgk$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > >> You mean their letter got lost in the mail; they sent her a reply > >> she's unaware of? Well, maybe they could send her another copy of it. > > > > Is sending a reply by post the only way they might respond? Is she, > > according to authoritative Baha'i Texts, even entitled to any particular > > kind of response for any of these complaints? > > > > > > Regards, > > Rick Schaut > > > > > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 7:55 AM To: Fred Glaysher Subject: NEWS RELEASE - Lawsuit filed against Baha'i Faith for Fraud & Libel NEWS RELEASE - Lawsuit filed against Baha'i Faith for Fraud & Libel FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Frederick Glaysher -- 248-651-3380 668 Bolinger, Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 USA The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm In early March 2001, a lawsuit was filed in New Mexico against local and national Baha'i administrative institutions. For well over a decade, numerous individual Baha'is have attempted to draw attention to abuses of free speech and conscience within the Baha'i Faith. Deborah Buchhorn's lawsuit epitomizes their concerns and grievances and reveals an oppressive side of the Baha'i Faith that very few Americans realize exists behind the facade of world peace and global brotherhood. For more information, contact Frederick Glaysher, or the Plaintiff's attorney, whose phone number appears at the end of the Complaint. Frederick Glaysher is available for print, radio, or TV interviews. AVAILABILITY: Michigan, nationwide by arrangement and via telephone; available for last-minute interviews. ----------------------------------------------------------------- FULL TEXT: SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself and for MINORITY MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, Plaintiffs, vs. (No. CV 2001-01978) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, a non-profit corporation, and the NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF THE UNITED STATES, an Illinois Corporation, Defendants. VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD, LIBEL, BREACH OF CORPORATE DUTIES, AND DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF COMES NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record, Yorgos D. Marinakis, and for their Complaint states as follows: INTRODUCTION 1. Plaintiffs file this shareholder or member derivative suit against: - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly, or LSA), - their Trustees, and - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly, or NSA), with whom the Local Spiritual Assembly and itsTrustees have privity. 2. Plaintiffs allege that Trustees breached their duties as corporate officers. 3. Plaintiffs allege that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of deciding appeals owed to Plaintiffs. 4. Plaintiffs allege that the literature review policies of the Local Spiritual Assembly and the National Spiritual Assembly, which lie in privity, unlawfully prevent shareholders from their right to communicate with other shareholders. 5. Plaintiffs allege that Defendants failed to execute their duties under their corporate by-laws. PARTIES 6. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn was a shareholder or member of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the time of the incidents stated in this Complaint, and she continues to be a member. 7. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly) is a New Mexico non-profit corporation. Shareholder-members may appeal decisions by the Local Spiritual Assembly to the National Spiritual Assembly. 8. The Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Trustees) individually reside in Bernalillo County, New Mexico, as a condition of their Trusteeship. Trustees are Kambiz Victory, Ok-Sun and John McHenry, Manijeh Kavelin, Nelson Sapad, Harry and Sondra Day, Owen Creightney, and Carol Caldwell. Jenny Beery was a Trustee during the time of many of these incidents. 9. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly) is incorporated in and has its principal place of business in Illinois. FACTS 10. The Bahá'í have no clergy. Instead, each community in the Bahá'í Faith annually elects nine Trustees or a "Local Spiritual Assembly," which acts as an agent or subsidiary of the National Spiritual Assembly. Each National Spiritual Assembly answers to the supreme Bahá'í body, The Universal House of Justice. The Universal House of Justice established the Continental Board of Counsellors (sic) to assist them, and the Countinental Board of Counsellors further has the Auxiliary Board to assist them. 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. 12. Although Plaintiffs have consistently complied with Defendant Trustees' demands, they have also consistently filed complaints against them with the National and International Bahá'í authorities. This has enraged the Defendant Trustees. 13. Defendant Trustees have never made specific accusations or informed Plaintiffs of wrongdoing, other than vague statements such as "you have issues with the Spiritual Assembly." 14. Therefore, deep-seated animosities and distrust have arisen between Plaintiffs and the Trustees, which are incapable of resolution and thereby present an irreconcilable barrier to the ability of the corporation to function as is. 15. Plaintiffs' reasonable expectations that they would be able to participate in the management and activities of their corporation, as minority shareholders, have been thwarted since at least 1995. 16. Article IV of the LSA by-laws provides that the LSA shall compose differences and disagreements among members of the community. Article VII, section 9 of the NSA by-laws provides that any member of a Bahá'í community may appeal from a decision of his LSA to the NSA. Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an inaccurate and inequitable manner. 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the corporate books. 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their financial books. Defendants refused. 20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow named Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the Plaintiff deemed in bad faith. Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. Electioneering 22. At the Annual Meeting Feast of 1999, Defendant Trustees fraudulently rigged the election of Trustee Nelson Sapad by calling for applause for him three times prior to an election of corporate officers. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 23. Defendant Trustees or their agents fraudulently rigged the election of Harry and Sondra Day, by introducing them and calling for applause moments before an election of corporate officers. 24. Trustees do not ensure secret balloting at the Annual Meeting Feast. The usual practice is not to use a ballot box, but for members to lay their ballots on a plate or in a basket in plain sight of the election tellers. Ms. Buchhorn appealed to Brent Poirier on at least one election. Mr. Poirier responded by handling the collection basket himself. 25. In the member newsletter and prior to the annual election and during the Annual Meeting Feast, Trustees have used scriptural quotes to draw attention to persons serving on certain committees. Fraudulent and Oppressive Behavior Relating to the TV Show "Spiritual Reality" 26. Plaintiffs conceptualized and produced a TV show named "Spiritual Reality." After 100 showings, during which Defendant Trustees only complimented Plaintiffs, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, mandated major changes in the show. Plaintiffs complied and appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 27. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiffs to "temporarily postpone" their television show, "Spiritual Reality." Plaintiff complied, and Defendants never specifically informed Plaintiffs what they had done to precipitate the arbitrary and capricious termination. The effect of this order, namely the termination of the TV show, violated the right of shareholders to communicate with other shareholders. 28. Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences stated that the reasons for termination would be fully discussed at a later meeting, at which meeting those reasons were never discussed. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory, employee of channel 41, knew or should have known that a television program cannot be "temporarily postponed." Plaintiffs appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 29. Defendant Kambiz Victory, a Trustee, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, told named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn in regards to her television show that "Your teaching can have no effect because you are not in unity with the Spiritual Assembly." Defendant knew that Ms. Buchhorn's television show brought in 15% of the information requests during an unrelated major regional advertising campaign by Defendants. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 30. Defendant Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences set-up Plaintiffs to a "confession" of their animosity towards Defendant Trustees. Named Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Other Oppression 31. As an act of individual initiative, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn organized a Bahá'í parade float for several years for the New Mexico State Fair Parade. In 2000, Defendant Trustees convened a task force to organize the parade float for that year. On August 22, 2000, approximately 19 days before the parade, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, instructed Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to terminate her parade float activities. A false reason for this termination was published in the membership newsletter by Defendant Trustees, causing Plaintiff embarrassment. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 32. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to receive instruction on the Bahá'í Covenant. Plaintiff complied and attended that "instruction," which in fact consisted of three (3) hours of interrogation by Trustee Owen Creightney, and John and Ok-Sun McHenry. It became apparent at this meeting that Trustee Creightney had lied to the Trustees in order to oppress named Plaintiff. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 33. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to resign from the Bahá'í gospel choir. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 34. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, undermined named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's Saturday Night Coffee House and in effect stopped her Coffee House. Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to these circumstances. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 35. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, have ordered numerous Bahá'ís to shun Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn. 36. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory told a Plaintiff "I am the voice of God in this community." Libel 37. Defendant Trustees knowingly published false and defamatory information about Plaintiffs in the Albuquerque Bahá'í newsletter, specifically relating to the parade banner. Unlawful Prevention of Communication between Shareholders 38. Defendant National Spiritual Assembly has the policy that Local Spiritual Assemblies are responsible for reviewing pamphlets and newsletters and materials that mention the Faith such as songs, play scripts, souvenir items, and greeting cards, intended for publication or distribution within their communities, whereas the National Spiritual Assembly is responsible for review of those same materials intended for nationwide publication. CAUSES OF ACTION Count I 39. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 40. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly acted and continue to act fraudulently towards the Plaintiffs. 41. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count II 42. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 43. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly libeled the named Plaintiff. 44. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count III 45. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 46. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in good faith, which failure constitutes fraud. 47. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IV 48. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporates all previous paragraphs. 49. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act with the care an ordinary prudent person in like position would exercise under similar circumstances, which failure constitute fraud.50. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count V 51. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 52. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in a manner they reasonably believe to be in the best interests of the corporation and its members, which failure constitutes fraud. 53. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VI 54. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 55. The Trustees have repeatedly failed their duty to compose differences and disagreements with themselves and the members, in violation of their by-laws, which failure constitutes fraud. 56. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VII 57. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 58. The National Spiritual Assembly has repeatedly failed their duty to hear appeals from Plaintiffs, in violation of their by-laws. 59. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VIII 60. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 61. The literature review policies of the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies violate the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 62. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IX 63. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 64. The practice of the Local Spiritual Assembly to direct members not to speak about their dealings with the LSA with other corporate members violates the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 65. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. JUDICIAL RELIEF WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiffs request that this Court: 1. Declare that the Trustees acted fraudulently towards Plaintiffs; 2. Declare that Trustees libeled Plaintiffs; 3. Declare that the Trustees breached their corporate duties towardsPlaintiffs; 4. Remove the Trustees from their positions and enjoin them from serving in official Bahá'ís capacities for nineteen (19) years; 5. Remove the LSA Directors who are also Trustees; 6. Declare that the Local Spiritual Assembly violated members' rights to inspect corporate books and records; 7. Compel Defendant LSA to retain an independent certified public accountant to audit the books for the last two years; 8. Declare that Defendant LSA violated their corporate by-laws by failing to compose differences and disagreements among members of the community; 6. Declare that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of hearing Plaintiffs' appeals; 7. Declare that the literature review policies of the Bahá'ís violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 8. Enjoin Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and Local Spiritual Assembly from enforcing their literature review policy; 9. Declare that the secrecy practices of the Local Spiritual Assembly violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 10. Enjoin Defendant Local Spiritual Assembly from continuing their secrecy practices; 11. Award compensatory damages from Defendants to Plaintiffs; 12. Award attorney's fees and costs to Plaintiffs; 13. Any other relief this Court deems appropriate. Respectfully submitted, ___________________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) Named Plaintiff's Verification STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss. COUNTY OF BERNALILLO) COMES NOW Deborah Buchhorn, and being duly sworn, states as follows: 1. I have read and understood the contents of this Complaint. 2. I have personal knowledge of the facts stated herein. 3. I attest to and verify their truth and accuracy.__________________________ DEBORAH BUCHHORN SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me this __ day of ______, 2001. ________________________ Notary Public My Commission Expires: ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 7:42 AM Subject: Re: Baha'u'llah & Abdu'l-Baha, Liars? It seems to me that the belief that the uhj is going to reform itself appears to be wishful thinking. There is no EVIDENCE to support it. I therefore have to believe the shape is set for times to come. It's also plausible that the uhj has inevitably disclosed what the bahai faith *is* and has been all along.... It's just as likely that the uhj has been following the examples of both Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha: public support and deceitful expressions of largely liberal and progressive values while concealing inveterate ignorance and fundamentalism, calculated to "win" unsuspecting converts.... A conclusion difficult to escape given the past decade, thoroughly documented on my website. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Baha'u'llah & Abdu'l-Baha, Liars? Given the appalling fundamentalism of the uhj's interpreation of Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha's writings, I reassert my main point that either Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha were LIARS or the members of the uhj are.... Which is it? Or all of them, in the light of the predominantly liberal sentiments usually identified by the inexperienced and uniformed with the bahai faith.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Roger Reini" wrote in message news:uqH2Ojh4sI9Ewl3VvuZT5exhkBlt@4ax.com... > On Mon, 7 May 2001 07:42:44 -0500, "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good > Standing" wrote: > > >It seems to me that the belief that the uhj is going to reform itself > >appears to be wishful thinking. There is no EVIDENCE to support > >it. I therefore have to believe the shape is set for times to come. It's > >also plausible that the uhj has inevitably disclosed what the > >bahai faith *is* and has been all along.... > > > >It's just as likely that the uhj has been following the examples of > >both Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha: public support and deceitful > >expressions of largely liberal and progressive values while concealing > >inveterate ignorance and fundamentalism, calculated to "win" > >unsuspecting converts.... > > > >A conclusion difficult to escape given the past decade, thoroughly > >documented on my website. > > I am confused. > > Why would a person who uses the nom de plume "BIGS - Bahai In > *Perfectly* Good Standing" state that the "examples of both > Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l-Baha" are "deceitful" and conceal "inveterate > ignorance and fundamentalism"? Why would anyone claiming to be a > Baha'i say such things about the Founder of the Faith and the Center > of the Covenant? > > Oh, I forgot: He said he was a "Bahai" in perfectly good standing -- > as opposed to a "Baha'i" in good standing. His criticisms are > intended for "The Bahai Faith" as opposed to the one founded by > Baha'u'llah, "The Baha'i Faith." I don't recognize this "Bahai Faith" > at all. It's either that or.... > > Here are some relevant quotes from the Writings on what it means to be > a Baha'i. These are directed to all of us here, not to a specific > individual: > > 28. O SON OF SPIRIT! Know thou of a truth: He that biddeth men be > just and himself committeth iniquity is not of Me, even though he bear > My name. > (Baha'u'llah: Arabic Hidden Words, Page: 28) > > My imprisonment doeth Me no harm, neither the tribulations I suffer, > nor the things that have befallen Me at the hands of My oppressors. > That which harmeth Me is the conduct of those who, though they bear My > name, yet commit that which maketh My heart and My pen to lament. > (Baha'u'llah: Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Page: 23) > > 123. O thou who gazest upon the Kingdom of God! Thy letter was > received and we note that thou art engaged in teaching the children of > the believers, that these tender little ones have been learning The > Hidden Words and the prayers and what it meaneth to be a Baha'i. > The instruction of these children is even as the work of a loving > gardener who tendeth his young plants in the flowering fields of the > All-Glorious. There is no doubt that it will yield the desired > results; especially is this true of instruction as to Baha'i > obligations and Baha'i conduct, for the little children must needs be > made aware in their very heart and soul that `Baha'i' is not just a > name but a truth. Every child must be trained in the things of the > spirit, so that he may embody all the virtues and become a source of > glory to the Cause of God. Otherwise, the mere word `Baha'i', if it > yield no fruit, will come to nothing. > Strive then to the best of thine ability to let these children > know that a Baha'i is one who embodieth all the perfections, that he > must shine out like a lighted taper - not be darkness upon darkness > and yet bear the name `Baha'i'. > Name thou this school the Baha'i Sunday School.(1) > > (`Abdu'l-Baha: Selections ... `Abdu'l-Baha, Page: 143) > > In view of this he feels your Assembly should constantly exhort the > friends to be more conscious of their duties, and to be very careful > of having differences of opinion which are so strong as to lead to > disputes and thus humiliate our beloved Faith in the eyes of > non-Baha'is. The public is beginning to observe them, and they must > therefore conduct themselves at all times as befits those who bear the > glorious Name of Baha. They must be forgetful of self, but ever > mindful of the Cause of God! > (Shoghi Effendi: Dawn of a New Day, Page: 114) > > > After reading these quotes, can anyone truly say that the subject line > in this message is true? No, they cannot. > > Roger (roger@rreini.com) > https://www.rreini.com/ ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Curious/Kashani and Banjo From Beliefnet: Rodneywicks 5/4/01 9:55 AM 23 out of 58 Don Wrote "Karen, I also object to your calling Dust despicable whether in this section or the C&C section is unwarranted. I, also, consider Rod's use of a memorial to backbite against people in a public forum highly unethical". Let's see if I have got this right Don... Dust (and your good self) are entitled to attribute 'hatred','deception','unethical' behaviour and backbighting to what I have posted...you are not inclined or compelled to substantiate these allegations ....but Karens objection and use of the word 'despicable'is out of line and out of order? I ask again...on what basis do you accuse me of backbighting and who do you deem/cite as my target? (Personaly I find this to be a prime example of what my original post was (in part) all about...the willingness-preparedness of people to make an accusation or allegation without any substantiation...at least here I am availed of the oportunity to reply to the accusations....at least untill I am confined in the basement;-) Rod. "Pat Kohli" wrote in message news:3AF5B40A.62500818@ameritel.net... > Allahu Abha! > > Many of you may remember Kashani aka Curious who posted here for a while > w/ concerns about how the AO did little to nothing to control its > ill-behaved members. More of the story was posted elsewhere with > permission to forward so, here goes. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi folks. > > My name is Rod Wicks, I'm a member of the Moyne Shire Baha'i community > in Victoria, Australia. By way of introduction I would like to tell you > about someone (and something) most dear to my heart. It is the story of > Henry 'Banjo' Clarke, Aboriginal Baha'i Elder of the Kirrae Whurrong > mob, and an account of the pursuit of the best beloved of all things ... > Justice. > > So I will begin with one of Banjos many obituaries ... and invite you to > consider .. how did the poorest of men, a representative of a profoundly > disempowered and oppressed people at the other end of the world ... end > up with an account of his life in the Times of London? > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > The Times, Obituaries, April 22 2000. > > Aboriginal tribal elder with a passion for conserving the environment. > > BANJO CLARKE > > Banjo Clarke, Aboriginal tribal elder, was born on October 23, 1923. He > died on March 13 aged 76. > > If it were possible for an Australian of the Baha'i Faith to be > canonised by popular acclaim, the Aboriginal elder Banjo Clarke would be > a candidate for sainthood. He was revered by many, and pilgrims came to > visit him from all over Australia and the world. > > Banjo Clarke was the eighth of nine children born to Francis of the > Framlingham Forest and Mary Maude Edwards from the Yorta Yorta tribe on > the Murray River. His parents worked on the districts grazing estates > and dairy farms while Banjo And his brothers and sisters inherited the > task of gathering food. > > Because of the Depression, most of the family moved to Melbourne in > 1930. In 1935, when the Depression had deepened, Clarke and his father > headed for the sawmills of Tynong in East Gippsland, where he learnt to > read and write. He became an expressive storyteller, particularly when > enacting the dreamtime of his clan. > > In 1940 he was recruited into the Civil Construction Corps and sent > build roads in the Northern Territory. After the war he returned to his > ancestral home. He married Audrey Cousins and they had 11 children. For > years he laboured in a quarry. Yet routine employment was secondary to > his concern for his community. > > He was a conservationist with atavistic wisdom. It had been tribal > practice to cull Koalas when the numbers in the Framlingham Forest > became destructive. In the 1980s, with the numbers rising dangerously > high, he argued the case for a cull. The Minister for the Environment, > however, did not wish to be seen to be licensing the killing of a cuddly > symbol of Australia, and as a consequence the forest is now riddled with > dead trees. > > Clarke believed in peaceful rather than confrontational protest. When > others demonstrated Against the 1988 bicentenary of the founding of the > colony of New South Wales, Clarke instead abjured liquor. > > Sadness accompanied success in his final years. Trailbike riders entered > the forest and trees were vandalised. There were differences of opinion > among his people, and last year the Federal Court ruled in favor of a > rival clan. > ---------------------------------------- > > To this (all too brief and inadequate) summary of his life and work > ought be added that Banjo was once a member of a traveling boxing > troupe. I would invite the reader to contemplate the skills and courage > required for a young black man in Australia during the Depression to > enter a city or town prepared to take on all challengers. As to the > 'sadness' of his later years and the machinations of the 'rival > clan'... I will return to those in another post. This is a lengthy > (and, in part, complex) tale... I hope you will bare with my clumsy > telling and seek clarification where necessary. > > Thanks for your time .. > More to come ... > > > Banjo was a remarkable man and a great Baha'i. I hope you can hang in > for the whole story ... live all good tales it has heroes and villians > and a twist at the end;-) > > I know obituaries don't make the most exciting reading ... but here's > the one from the local community that wouldn't fit in the previous post. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Warrnambool Standard, Public Notices, March 18, 2000. > > On behalf of the Moyne Shire Baha'I Community. > > In loving memory of Banjo Clarke > > To advise that Henry Banjo Clarke was a long-standing member of the > Baha'i Faith is to make no claim upon his name or memory, rather it is > to pay due recognition to the claim he made upon us all. > > Through his life, his open hearted acceptance of all people, Banjo > demonstrated not only his belief in God but also his faith in humanity. > He held faith that we could share. He held faith that we could be > friends. He held faith that there could be compassion. He held faith > that there could be justice. > > Banjo Clarke believed that we are One People and that our highest > aspirations could only be met through the recognition of our essential > unity. With an abundance of light, love and laughter he lived his > beliefs and welcomed every soul that crossed his path. A one man > un-funded welfare agency, he helped more people than can be calculated. > > We will miss Banjo. We will remember him and attempt to do honor to the > trust he placed in us all. We shall also hold him in our hearts as a new > being, free from age, free from pain, and liberated from the injustice > and stress that marred his final days. > > To his family and friends we extend our condolences. > > "Death proffer unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed > ... it conferreth the gift of everlasting life". Baha'u'llah. > > ---------------------- > > Next..........The old mans vision.....'The Kashani Project'. > > I would like to tell the tale of the greatest Baha'i I ever met ... No > doubt there are more like him. I just haven't met them yet. > > I want to tell you about Henry 'Banjo' Clarke, Aboriginal Elder of the > Kirrae Whurrong. My motivation is simple enough. He was the happiest, > funniest, gentlest, wisest, poorest and most popular man I have ever > met. His story deserves voicing abroad and his memory honored with > laughter. His life was marked by the struggle for justice. > > Henry Clarke was born on the Framlingham Aboriginal Mission (inland from > Warrnambool ) in 1922. He became 'Banjo' Clarke when old Pompy Austin > laid the title on him at the age of six. The name stuck and Banjo lived > to become the most well loved and respected individual in the district. > As a young man he cut timber and railway sleepers and did his stint with > a boxing troupe (Bare-knuckle bouts against all comers). He worked hard > all his life and prided himself on his 'never having held his hand out > to the government'. He has lived through the passage from non-citizen to > citizen and experienced the worst of the 'Stolen Generation' period. > > There was never any bitterness apparent in Banjo, though his life would > have well justified it. He emerged as an Elder of the Kirrae Whurrong > with a moral authority that, like his reputation, rippled well beyond > his clan and into the broader community. Little tackers call him "Poppy > Man", youth address him courteously as "Uncle", and no one speaks ill of > him or questions his integrity. (Amongst indigenous Australians 'Uncle' > or 'Auntie' is an honorific not always bestowed in accord with age or > relationship but rather stature and standing within the community). > > Banjo had opened his portion of "The Mish" (The Framlingham Aboriginal > Mission) to all in need...black or white...able or disabled...young or > old....all are welcome. It is an informal social welfare net that has > operated in the region, unfunded, for decades. No one can count or keep > track of the number of people who have found shelter and support out at > Banjos patch. People drift in, homeless, broke, wounded, buggered up and > down and out. They stay as long as they like or need then move on when > they are ready. No doubt it will seem trite or naive...but they are > healed and restored by love and laughter and the magic of a master > storyteller. Professional welfare and youth workers have got nothing on > Poppy Man, he does not have 'clients'....just mates... thousands of them > ... all over the planet. > > Now... every good yarn has a bad guy in it, true to form ours is rich > and powerful. I will refer to him simply as 'The Rat' and , cognizant > of both the constraints of 'libel' and his very real capacity for > violence, keep my description to the bare bones. > > Though I have never heard a word of bitterness or regret from Uncle > Banjo.... I have heard him get angry. I have even heard him advocate > that someone was in need of a good 'spearing'. What might induce an > affable Elder to advocate such a measure? In a word... Justice. Or > rather, its absence or flaunting. Justice, in the cosmology of Henry > Banjo Clarke, is "the best beloved of all things". In recent times it > has been in dam short supply. > > Now there are always at least two sides to every story of conflict and > mine is no doubt a biased perspective seen (and in part gleaned) from > the side of Banjo- his family, friends and mob. None the less I will > give account of that which I believe can be confirmed and invite the > inquiry of more impartial investigators. > > Moving into the area, almost a decade ago I was warned about the Rat, I > strove to keep an open mind, maintained an aversion to unsubstantiated > rumor, backbighting and local gossip. The stories and the warnings > mounted and sheer numerical weight of tales told from diverse sources > gave cause for due caution. > "Don't have anything to do with him". > "Don't let your kids near him". > "Don't think the law will help, he's bought them off before". > > > I put some of it down to racism, some of it down to rural paranoia, some > of it down to general envy and jealousy, the passage of time and > proximity to the events that transpired revealed the man for what he was > ... a Rat. > > When Banjos house burnt down he and family were sifting through the > ashes looking to recover what they could. The Rat came power walking > down the road on his evening constitutional. Empowered to provide > housing to the community almost at will, he did not stop, he did not > pause, he did not offer a cup of tea or a blanket... just kept walking. > > Family, tribe, clan, skin group, community and relationship are > paramount amongst the Aboriginal community. Respect for Elders even more > so. To ignore an Elder in obvious need is deemed to be "a big shame > job". Your right of course, it's not an illegal activity ... perhaps > bad mannered, perhaps immoral. Rape, however, is illegal. So too > paying the police to drop the charges and loose the file. > > The tension between the Rat and his Elder mounted over the years. As the > former amassed wealth and power the latter built an empire of friends. > By the time I came to know Poppy Man Banjo he was the center of a broad > diverse community of well wishers and admirers, in latter years, as his > strength and health faded, we grew concerned at the sheer number and > flow of visitors. We even advocated the instillation of a flagpole to > signal, in the style of the Governor General, whether the old man was in > or not. He would not have it. > > You could roll up to Banjos to find that a mini bus of Aboriginal youth > had arrived at the same time that another full of Dutch/English/German > backpackers was departing, all would mill around amidst the resident > army of kids, dogs and drug crazed Permaculturalists while the Japanese > film crew flew overhead in a Helicopter ..."Where's the Old Man"? > "He's answering a call from his old mate Malcolm" (Fraser, former Prime > Minister). > Divine bedlam ... gave me some glimmer of what Baha'u'llah and Abdul > Baha must have endured. > > Banjos house looks out over a steep and panoramic gully ... down to the > Hopkins River ... across to the forest he was born in and so dearly > loved. The house was arranged (following the fire) by the Baha'i > community and the Uniting Church, it sheltered his aging body but his > heart/spirit never left the bush. The Fram forest was, I believe, the > first successful Koori land rights claim in Victoria, the campaign being > conducted by Banjos two sons- Lenny (also a Baha'i ) and Ian (now > deceased). Important as the 'hand back' was to the Old Man, I think he > remained both bemused and perplexed by the notions of 'Title' and > 'Ownership'. > > The forest was a living cathedral in Banjos eyes. A sacred place for > work, recreation, reflection, contemplation and prayer ... "Who can own > that except God"? > > Banjo was never real big on what might usually be considered > 'theological speculation' ... about the best we ever got from him was > ... "That Adam and Eve? .... How come they ate the apple instead of the > snake? ... You get a much better feed outa a snake!!! ... And it would > have saved a hellava lotta trouble!!!!!!" This was followed by a peel of > laughter that made stringy bark fall and woke Koalas from their torpor. > When Banjo Clarke laughed the mountains trembled. > > By God, the All Merciful, the All Wise ......... how we loved that man. > > Koalas, ahhh Koalas .... no ... they ain't cute. When they began to > appear two or three to a tree in the cathedral we contemplated > organizing a quiet 'cull'. Thought better of it ..."Koories Kill > Koalas" ... was the speculated headline. So in came the 'experts' and > the 'debate' began. At one point there was three separate teams > representing various agencies involved ... one lot sought to capture and > relocate, another to capture and sterilize, another wrapped the base of > big old Manna Gums in sheet metal to inhibit movement (Koalas, not the > trees) ... and David Bellamy entered the fray opposing any cull. The > result? Up to six Koalas per tree in the end... Then the trees died... > Then the Koalas slowly starved. Dead forest ... Japanese film crew to > document it ... and ...the Rat in the wings. > > I won't recount the rest, I cant. The forest was taken from Banjo and > the Kirrae Whurrong Elders Association ... it was not the loss of > 'title' that broke his heart ... it was the way in which it was done ... > the absence of due process. No trace of the best beloved of all things. > > It was time to take a stand ... > Next Post .. The Project. > > The Kashani Project. > > > "Aqa Siyyid Husayn-i-Kashani was one of the handful chosen to accompany > Baha-u-llah on the journey to Adrianople. Described as 'a simple > soul'(*1) he was renowned for his sense of humor and 'at times he used > to come into the presence of Baha u llah and make Him laugh with some > amusing remark'(*2). It was to Siyyid Husayn-i-Kashani that the care of > Namiq Pashas horse was entrusted and he is recorded as having 'capered > and danced' before Baha u llahs red roan stallion 'Sa udi'. Such was his > desire to amuse Baha'u'llah and make Him laugh that when obliged to > return home he implored those 'who were to remain with Him not to forget > to mention some of his comic doings that Baha u llah might smile'.(*1) > > At the inception of the Kashani Project little more was known (to us) of > the man other than his desire to amuse the Blessed Beauty. This in > itself seemed sufficient to merit some recognition of his name. When > Banjo Clarke offered the Baha'i community access to his land for the > construction of a meeting place the title seemed fitting as both Banjo > and Kashani share a remarkable sense of humor. It was only subsequently > that their common love and care for horses became apparent. > > So it is that the Faith of God in This Day has united two men, years and > continents apart, in their irrepressible humor and unfailing commitment > to His Cause. Aqa Siyyid Husayn-i-Kashani met a martyr's death at the > instigation of the Persian Consul in Cairo. As a British subject his > case became a cause celebre abroad and helped to provide details of the > 'controversies aroused by the chicanery and greed of (the Consul) Haji > Mirza Hasan Khan'. (*3) > > For his part, Banjo Clarke continued the battle against greed and > injustice in his own community. With scant resources and in the face of > ongoing harassment he (and his family) have continued to provide > shelter, comfort, love and good humored hospitality to all for over > three decades. None can count or recall all of the young people who > have sought and received refuge on Banjos property, nor can anyone > reckon the number and range of friends he has established. > > In a recent full-page article dedicated to Banjo in the Age (21 Dec, > Features P11) the former Mayor of Warrnambool expresses his appreciation > in a uniquely Australian way. "Banjo Clarke is one of the people God has > put his finger on.... And if God has put his finger on you, no bastard > can touch you". > > The site that Banjo and the Kirrae Whurrong had made available to the > Baha'i community was cleared for the next stage of development. This > involved the placement of gravel for the road and establishing footings > for the building itself.(A corrugated iron roofed 'Meeting Place', nine > sided, no walls, central fireplace). All of the technical and human > resources necessary to the completion of the meeting place had been > established. All that remained was to ensure that the good will > expressed by so many of the Friends continued to be expressed in > financial support. The Kashani project, was the first (we believe) > social and economic development project to be undertaken by the > Victorian Baha'i community. > > That's how we marketed the project in the community- A Social and > Economic Development Program with an emphasis on Justice .... Under the > banner of 'Kashani' ....the bloke who could make a Manifestation of God > laugh. The meeting place was to be (primarily) a venue in which young > people of all races could gather, to talk, consult, enjoy each others > company ... a place that they would see and utalise as their own. > > The subtext to the project (openly and widely discussed within the > Baha'i community) was to establish a 'physical presence' on Banjos patch > ... to 'signal' (to the Rat&Co) that "this old man is not alone ... he > has friends ... and they are organized ... and oh yes, some of them are > large and muscular "fancy that". This (secondary?) objective was > discussed in the presence of NSA members, Councilors, Assistants and > representatives of the broad Victorian Baha'i community. 'Full and > frank' consultation took place and the 'risks', 'difficulties' and > 'potential (negative and positive) outcomes discussed. Two+ years of > planning, advocacy, promotion, organizing, fundraising and eventually > hard slog labor ensued .....for a while there we had unleashed ourselves > from endless words and the 'paper chase' and entered the realm of > 'deeds'. > > There was a remarkable dedicated team of Baha'i Youth who came from all > over to assist. I wish you could have seen them ... young men and women, > representatives of every nation, all kinds of backgrounds ... carting > rubbish, trimming trees, spreading gravel, digging fence post holes with > shovel or driller ... dirty, cut, blistered and sunburnt. And they kept > coming back for more. > By God the All Merciful the All Wise .... how we loved those kids. > > > To see them torn between wanting to do their share and being continually > drawn back to chat with Poppy Man as he sat in the doorway of his > caravan in a horse paddock (Site Head Office). To see and hear him > laugh and tell stories like he had not done for months. > > He, at last, could 'see something positive' happening, a glimmer 'of' > and 'for' the future. I/we thought that behind us stood a united and > determined community and AO. I thought that 'come what may' we had made > a start and stand on 'justice' and would continue to do so. The future > made fools of us all. > > On March 13 2000, Henry 'Banjo' Clarke, 76, passed away. > > The forces of darkness did not hesitate to rally. The 'Friends' folded > like a deck of cards. > > But first there was a funeral. > > *1: Baha u llah The King of Glory, H.M. Balyuzi, 1980. > *2: The Revelation of Baha u llah, Volume II, Adib Taherzadeh. > *3: Eminent Bahais in the time of Baha u llah, H.M. Balyuzi, 1985. > > > Burying a King > > I knew the old man was crook, I'd seen him on the Saturday, on his bed > writhing with gut pain. Just like a boxer, he refused to stay down > ..."Just a minute ... it will go in a minute". It didn't. For the first > time ever I told him what to do rather than seek his advice ... he was > going to hospital. He was fine when I saw him again on the Sunday, > sitting up in bed, telling stories and laughing. He was gone by Monday > morning. > > People respond differently to shock and grief. I drove first to the RSL > and requested they lower their flag for Banjo... It came down in a > flash. Then the City Council, Library and the Police ... all complied. > McDonnalds? ....ah well .... stuff them. > > I spent half the morning avoiding going out to the Mission... I > suspected what was install... I was going to be asked to bury a King. > Oh there's love and there's honor ..... and there's blood curdling > logistical fear. How many people do you expect? How big a Marquee do you > rent? How much food? How many tents and porta loos? > > The service was to take place in the horse paddock, just down from the > Kashani Project site, just up from the ridge above the river, next to > the forest, where he was to be buried. Fortunately the burial was > postponed until the following Monday, had it been on the weekend (as > intended) there may well have been two or three times the three-four > thousand people who came out on the day. > > The day itself was huge, Baha'i dignitaries spoke, Archie Roach, Paul > Kelly and a host of others sang, an old codger audibly muttered and > complained as the Prayer for the Dead was recited and the 'dignified' > scattering of petals onto the casket turned into a kid War of the Roses > as they fought for more. No one fell in the grave and a fine time was > had by all ... well, all those in attendance. > > A rumor had been started that some in the Koorie community would not be > welcome, this was, in part, true. The small handful of men who had been > involved in the forest 'takeover' would not have been welcome. No one > would have stopped them, no guard on the gates, the funeral had been > declared a 'public event' in three public notices. None the less, the > rumor persisted and spread and impacted upon the attendance of many > extended family members.(Extremely serious business to miss a funeral > within the Koorie community). > > Behind the scenes ... plotting was afoot. > > > It would be nigh on impossible to convey a picture of the near two > decades of dysfunction that had characterized our local Baha'i > community. Some would point the finger at a 'couple' and deem the 'Mad' > or 'Bad' or, yes- of late they have reached the status, **CBs**. I think > they 'had problems communicating' and 'generated difficulties'..but I > work in Welfare/ Education and have met worse. (When psychopaths are > your measure sociopath aren't too bad) > > For me the question was, and remains ... "What processes, procedures and > boundaries does a community put in place to curb abusive behavior". The > consistent and unequivocal answer from the Baha'i AO was "Hold hands, > love each other, maintain unity". It had never worked in my decade of > experience within this community. > > It took 15-16 years to have any form of sanction imposed on our 'couple' > and it was the big stick loss of voting rights. 'They' never understood > the 'verdict', we never understood the 'process' (or absence there of). > Many, if not all concerned, had a very bitter residual taste on their > justice buds. > > The perception was, for our couple (J+C), that I had engineered their > demise. Despite incessant pleas to the AO I was never granted the > opportunity of a Mediation or Conflict Resolution forum in which I might > be able to clear the air, heal the rift or defend myself from a range of > unsubstantiated allegations. I was never permitted to meet with them in > a structured environment that would facilitate understanding or justice. > > I was, for over eight years, J+Cs consistent target. Banjo's funeral > provided them with a new field of opportunity to launch an attack.only > this time it was not confined to 'within' the Baha'i community.it was > taken into the public realm. > > 'J' sat down with one of the Rats minions (the chair of a local NGO) and > drafted a letter (to the chair of that same NGO).I think that's called > 'collusion'. The letter was also sent to the Oz NSA. It contained a > range of allegations, some of them spurious trifles, some of them quite > serious. One of the accusations was that the Baha'i community had not > done Enough to ensure that all mourners could freely attend.(3 public > Notices that it was a public event?). The content of the letter matters > little...the effect was devastating. > > > Please bare in mind this took place within a week of Banjos funeral. > While there was a great deal of grief and exhaustion there was also a > high degree of gratitude and satisfaction. The old mans steadfast > dedication to his faith and the principles required to be a decent human > being had paid off in spades. Major feature articles in the Age and the > Australian, Nation wide radio and TV coverage, three consecutive front > page articles in the W'bool Standard..and commentary describing the old > fella as "on par with the Dali Lama" and "Australia's Baha'i Saint". > You can't buy that kind of exposure even if you tried. > > So 'the letter' hit the deck and the poo hit the fan. The first > casualty was the Kashani Project..stone dead with a single missive from > one of the Rats minions. (The details don't matter) Then there was a > distraught and outraged family of the deceased. (We gathered at a local > level to give ear to their anger and pain.but that's all they got). > Then there was me, (and another Baha'i attacked by innuendo and > inference), and the reputation of the local Baha'i community.all subject > to a range of allegations in the public realm. > > Now I'm a perverse kind of character, part of my brain was saying."Well > this is good.the AO can't shy away from this one.too big, too much at > stake.they will have to call the Baha'is involved in drafting this > letter to substantiate the claims made, explain the collusion engaged in > and withdraw and apologize for all once the facts are presented". It > wouldn't be much compensation for the damage done.but at least.after all > these years.'we' would have implemented 'fair due process'. > > Ok, I admit it, I'm a idiot.I really thought it was going to happen. I > even reassured some of Banjos family "Don't worry.this issue has upset > some of the Persian Baha'is, and once they get riled over a justice > issue a fair outcome is assured"....Yup...A big idiot. > > What did we get? The first thing we got was a clear and uncompromising > "No opportunity to speak with or hear the Baha'i authors of the > letter..no calling to account.no substantiation required.no > explanation.no justification.no opportunity to challenge allegations or > squelch rumors..none of that due process stuff". > > We could however meet with the NSA OA reps coming down from Sydney > (Agenda unspecified) and attempt to counter the unsubstantiated > allegations (in the absence of the accusers) and guess at their origin > and intent. > > I didn't have the heart for it. Not again, not after so many years of > battling, advocating, arguing, pleading for open and accountable > procedures. Not after so many years of attending meetings designated to > 'mediate' or diminish conflict that turned out to be kangaroo courts at > which you are denied the opportunity to speak freely or > worse.'spirituality workshops' in which the core issues are not raised. > > > Had I known that these NSA reps had 'discreetly' met with the authors of > the letter 'prior' to the general community meeting I might have taken > up the opportunity. Had I known that the following day.not appraised of > all relevant information nor having given opportunity for the > investigation of the facts.they presented themselves to the 'colluding' > NGO Chair (Rat minion). and 'Apologized' on behalf of the Baha'i > community (We know not what for)..I might have taken more than a few > harsh words. > > The relationship with the local indigenous community, Banjos family and > friends, twenty years of patient trust building, support and united > effort . . . all now stands in tatters and ruins. > > An Aboriginal Baha'i Elder, revered far and wide as a saint, has been > betrayed and his family abandoned at the time of their greatest need and > vulnerability. > > The commitment and work of so many dedicated Baha'is, young and old, > black and white has been brought to naught. > > It is a disabling, heartbreaking, waste. > > I blame no individual. I hold no institution accountable. These events > could have been so easily stymied when they began a decade ago. They > could have been brought to a speedy and effective close by the > application of the most basic Conflict Resolution and Mediation > procedures and the application of the fundamentals of open fair due > process. Instead they have been left to fester and rot, in a prevailing > culture of avoidance and denial, to bare fruit in the most abominable of > outcomes ... the thwarting of the best beloved of all things....Justice. > > (snip) > > Rod Wicks. > Inactive member of the Moyne Shire Baha'i community. > > "Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty > stream" > Amos 5:24 > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 7:03 AM Subject: Re: Baha'u'llah & Abdu'l-Baha, Liars? > Fred, in light of your recent comments on the central figures of the bahai > faith, do you think the bahai fanatics and extremists will launch a new > campaign in discrediting your character? Have they ever stopped! Or done anything else! ... Well, I wouldn't put anything past them, especially with the launching of the propaganda festival they're busy rolling out about the terraces in Haifa, Israel, finally being finished. It's the same "response" they give every revelation about how things ACTUALLY operate within the bahai faith, witness their damage control with the New Mexico lawsuit.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Mr Mahdi" wrote in message news:20010508174355.12098.00002581@ng-mm1.aol.com... > Greetings Fred, > > >Or all of them, in the > >light of the predominantly liberal sentiments usually identified > >by the inexperienced and uniformed with the bahai faith.... > > I have made the observation a while back concerning the lure of "progressive > liberalism" bahai missionaries like to use on unsuspecting and uninformed > people. This type of missionary tactic is utterly deceptive for the simple > fact that the bahai missionaries are far from "liberal," but in order to win > converts they use the catchy slogans that liberals use in order to win over > converts. > > Of course as I do not believe that bahaullah and the rest of the central > figures of the bahai faith were inspired or guided by God. God is above all > human flaws and attributes and bahaullah made and did many things that were > factually wrong in a state where he claimed to be inspired by God. The nature > of a false religion and its founder who were false prophets is that many > mistakes inundate the inner-workings of the religion to the point that it > automatically discredits the religion being from the All Perfect God. Look at > the chaotic state of the uhj, nsa, and lsa and you see what I am talking about. > They are all fallible human beings with no clear understanding of the agenda > nor the reality because their false prophet bahaullah did not give them > teachings that can define their purpose for them. It is merely a haphazard > council set up to try to give the impression of a world council "Vatican-like" > appearance to the bahai faith. > > Fred, in light of your recent comments on the central figures of the bahai > faith, do you think the bahai fanatics and extremists will launch a new > campaign in discrediting your character? > > Mahdi Muhammad > > https://members.xoom.com/mrmahdi/caliphate.html ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 7:09 AM Subject: 22,000+ hits - 3 year Anniversary! - The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Now more than 3 years of no interest in the censorship and suppression of free speech and conscience within the bahai faith.... Created May 8, 1998. Updated April 29, 2001. Over 500+ pages. 30+ megabytes of documentation of bahai fundamentalism. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 7:19 AM Subject: bahai - FACTS - New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 FACTS 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahais of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 7:01 AM Subject: bahai - Baha'u'llah & Abdu'l-Baha, Liars? Compare the following two passages from Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha with the manner in which the uhj interprets them: "The light of men is Justice. Quench it not with the contrary winds of oppression and tyranny." --Baha'u'llah (See dozens of similar quotations at link below) https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/Tyranny.htm "These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants." --Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91. (Dozens and dozens of passages could easily be cited) --- 3 August 1999 From: Department of the Secretariat Baha'i World Center Dear Baha'i Friend, Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern . . . As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own" . . . The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) . . . With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ----- For Juan Cole's comments and response, see https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm Who is doing the LYING? The Figures of the Faith or the DISFIGURERS of it? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 8:34 AM Subject: How to Improve Your bahai Newsgroup Experience Assuming you use IE5, click on Tools, then Message Rules, followed by News. Add for talk.religion.bahai and for alt.religion.bahai the email addresses or names of the bahai fundamentalists and fanatics of your choice: smaneck@aol.com dfiorito@my-deja.com rlittle95@my-deja.com kohliCUT@ameritel.net postmaster@ishop-usa.com brieze_way@nospam.hotmail.com patk9018@my-deja.com RSSchaut@email.msn.NOSPAMcom saman@ticnet.com mee@tsn.cc roger@rreini.com dr.walker@fsandp.remove.com Click on Apply Now. Further word of advice based on over three and a half years online: Also add them to Blocked Senders List. There are others you might want to add. Despite the hounding of the fundamentalists, names do not appear in any rank order. One of the best things about IE5 is that it is so easy to add fundamentalists as they show up or adopt false identities.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 1:21 PM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT _ 17. The books and records - $10,000 discrepancy 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an inaccurate and inequitable manner. 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the corporate books. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 9:07 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 "vague statements" = bahai technique.... 13. Defendant Trustees have never made specific accusations or informed Plaintiffs of wrongdoing, other than vague statements such as "you have issues with the Spiritual Assembly." FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm See and compare "The Bahai Technique": https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 9:11 AM Subject: Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists In addition to below, be sure to see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm After over four years of observing the tactics of bahai fundamentalists, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always smear and attack the individual. 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for non-bahais that the individual is unbalanced, aberrant, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject. 5. Shift to the past and argue over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses "review" to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to disucss anything with them is simply a waste of time and energy. I have many interests in life. Documenting bahai fundamentalism is only one of them. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts.They're intended for the uninformed.... And they will be staying on the newsgroups I choose as long as bahai censorship and deceit continue. It should be evident to informed people that fundamentalists desire to suppress all knowledge of their suppression and coercion of bahais and non-bahais over the last decade or more now. I am only interested in preserving the record of what bahai fundamentalists have done. Others may read it and decide for themselves. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how low bahai fanatics have been willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai webpages.... It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so long..... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 6:04 AM Subject: Re: A Seeker's Guide to Baha'i Newsgroups (One Person's View) This file contains observations on soc.religion.bahai censorship: ---------------------------------------------------- SOC.RELIGION.BAHAI: Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998: "I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb84.htm Ron House: "I think the following is a clear case of malicious rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of soc.religion.bahai." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb53.htm Timothy Mulligan: "(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those SRB moderators." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb59.htm RobertNik: "these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb54.htm Bruce Burrill: "What are Baha'i afraid of?" https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb60.htm Zuteflute: "Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb50.htm YU ZIR: "But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to address." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb46.htm Matthew Cromer: "The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles which they agree with...." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb47.htm Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:"So many Bahais on these forumshave shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb77.htm Shakti3, December 4, 1998: "Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit, seeing the way these newsgroups operate." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/Ex7.htm Harold Shinsato: "It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb33.htm Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998: "The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the controversy started, it has gotten worse." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb79.htm Laeterna: "To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was putting it mildly indeed." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/censored2.htm Robin Peters: "I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the face of consistent censorship." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb43.htm jgoldberg: "I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. " https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb57.htm Ruletherod, November 17, 1998: "Too much damage has already been done in the name and to the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies, linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You can't just blame it all on the critics." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb76.htm Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under soc.religion.bahai censorship. https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb.htm The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:07 AM Subject: Re: The Baha'i World Marches on: exciting event next week FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm " Dean Martineau" wrote in message news:SahM6.6464$gc1.594036@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > HIGH EXCITEMENT AND LOFTY EXPECTATIONS FOR BAHA'IS HEADING TO ISRAEL FOR > TERRACES INAUGURATION CEREMONY > > HAIFA, Israel, 15 May 2001 (BWNS) -- When Henrietta Josias arrives here at > the end of the week, it will be her first time in Israel -- and only the > second time in her life to travel outside of her native South Africa. > > Like an estimated 3,000 other Baha'is who will be coming for the > inauguration of a majestic series of garden terraces on Mount Carmel here on > 22 May, Ms. Josias comes with high excitement and lofty expectations for > what she believes will be one of the highlights of her life. > > "To me, it is a phenomenal thing that is happening to me," said the > 45-year-old mother and flea market sales lady from Cape Town. "Prior to > becoming a Baha'i, I would never have had any idea about traveling to > Israel, or anywhere else for that matter, coming from a very disadvantaged > community in South Africa. > > "But being a Baha'i opens your vision to the world around you," said Ms. > Josias, who became a Baha'i nine years ago. "I feel I'm part of this great > process where people are trying to become citizens of this whole wide world > and so that we see one another as brothers and sisters." > > That sentiment -- to help foster the processes of world peace and human > unity -- indeed underlies the construction of the kilometer-long terraces on > Mount Carmel, which is sacred not only to Baha'is but also to Christians, > Jews and Muslims. Built over 10 years at a cost of some US$250 million, the > terraces and two new adjacent administrative buildings are designed in part > to offer to humanity at large a vision of peace and harmony. > > Dedication ceremonies will begin at dusk on 22 May 2001 with an open-air > world premiere concert, which will be available live worldwide by satellite > and Internet webcast. On 23 May, indigenous musicians will perform and the > thousands of celebrants, many in colorful national dress, will ascend the > terraces for the first time. > > The diversity of the gathering will itself reflect the ideals of the Baha'i > Faith, which aims to enlist people everywhere, from all races, religions and > nationalities, in a common endeavor to build a just, peaceful and > ever-advancing civilization. There are about five million Baha'is and the > Faith is the second-most widespread independent religion after Christianity, > with communities in more than 200 countries and territories. > > "It will be like a 'preview' of how the world will become in the future, > showing a cross-section of humankind coming together in unity," said Nogol > Rahbin, a 20-year-old medical student, who will be among the delegation from > Sweden. "To me, this will be a chance to experience the vision that the > founder of the Baha'i Faith, Baha'u'llah, gave to humanity about 150 years > ago." > > Baha'i communities from more than 170 countries are planning to send > delegations. And the list of delegates likewise spans the gamut of > professions, social and economic class, and racial and religious > backgrounds. > > Attendees range from a New York investment banker to a young woman from the > Fulnio people in northeastern Brazil; from a Nepalese journalist to an > architectural student from Belarus. > > "To me, this event will show how a great many people, from all different > locations and backgrounds, can come together in unity, to help create > something as close to perfection as I can think of," said Alexandar Sawka, a > 17-year-old student from St. Johns, Antigua, West Indies. "The completion of > a project of this magnitude is a great step forward for any religion." > > The delegates were chosen by various means to represent their countries at > the inauguration ceremonies by their National Spiritual Assemblies, the > nation-level governing bodies in the Baha'i Faith. Limited to 19 delegates > each, National Spiritual Assemblies around the world used different methods > to choose their delegations. Some Assemblies gave weight to individuals who > had given exemplary service over the years while others simply held a > lottery. > > Sara Nobre, like other members of the delegation from Portugal, was chosen > by lot. The 24-year-old staffing manager from Lisbon feels incredibly lucky. > > "The event is the end result of many years of hard work from Baha'is > everywhere," said Ms. Nobre, who, like millions of other Baha'is, > contributed funds to the project, which was built entirely with donations > from Baha'is around the world. "It is the fruit of perseverance and love." > > Jean Scales, one of the delegates from the United States of America, feels > honored to have been selected. "I couldn't believe it at first," said Jean > Scales, a 71-year-old retired English professor who now lives in Durham, > North Carolina. "I have no idea why I've been chosen. I guess it is because > I've been active over the years." > > Dr. Scales has served the Faith on a number of levels since becoming a > Baha'i in 1960. Last year, for example, she toured South Africa and > Swaziland with her husband, Jay, to promote the Faith's ideals. > > Like others selected to travel to Haifa, she views the inauguration of the > terraces as a once-in-a-lifetime event, one that she believes will likewise > showcase the Faith's message and teachings. > > "The construction of these gardens is a reason for humanity to have hope," > said Dr. Scales. "So many people just don't see any hope in the world today, > between wars and rumors of wars. But this shows that humankind can come > together." > > Dr. Scales believes that the beauty of the gardens -- she has seen numerous > photographs of them -- reflects the harmonious blend of spiritual and > material attributes that Baha'is believe is needed in the world. > > "Around the world, Baha'is are asked to engage in social and economic > development projects to do things that will help their communities," she > said. "They don't just pray. Rather, they seek to combine the material and > the spiritual." > > Dr. Scales and others also believe that the completion of the Baha'i > projects on Mount Carmel, which include the construction of two new > administrative buildings, also represent a significant fulfillment of > prophecy, both for Baha'is and others. > > "I do know that Mount Carmel is important in Christian and Jewish history, > and that the Holy Land itself is important to many of the religions in the > world," she said. "In the main Christian prayer, they speak of 'Thy Kingdom > come, Thy will be done.' To me, this is a fulfillment of that prayer in that > we Baha'is believe we are helping to build the Kingdom of God on earth." > > -- > BWC-GF-010515-1-INAUGURATION-115-S > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:56 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT - Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications - FRAUD & LIBEL Non-bahai observers here might especially want to consider the implications of the following passage: Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. fglaysher ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 7:59 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT - Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications - FRAUD & LIBEL Non-bahai observers here might especially want to consider the implications of the following passage: Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm fglaysher ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 7:21 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT - controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in & what members they were able to talk to In regard to the way the bahai "administration" operates, here are the FACTS: 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahais of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. - Coercion, dishonesty, threats, intimidation, etc., etc., etc.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 7:31 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT - Attn: HAIFA - Rigging bahai Elections - FRAUD & LIBEL 23. Defendant Trustees or their agents fraudulently rigged the election of Harry and Sondra Day, by introducing them and calling for applause moments before an election of corporate officers. Be sure to see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm - I'm afraid this may very well be exceedingly common in bahai elections. Many other people have thought so. fglaysher ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 7:36 AM Subject: Re: The Baha'i World Marches on - HAIFA - exciting event next week What Haifa can expect from the "universal" house of "justice" - FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm " Dean Martineau" wrote in message news:SahM6.6464$gc1.594036@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > HIGH EXCITEMENT AND LOFTY EXPECTATIONS FOR BAHA'IS HEADING TO ISRAEL FOR > TERRACES INAUGURATION CEREMONY > > HAIFA, Israel, 15 May 2001 (BWNS) -- When Henrietta Josias arrives here at > the end of the week, it will be her first time in Israel -- and only the > second time in her life to travel outside of her native South Africa. > > Like an estimated 3,000 other Baha'is who will be coming for the > inauguration of a majestic series of garden terraces on Mount Carmel here on > 22 May, Ms. Josias comes with high excitement and lofty expectations for > what she believes will be one of the highlights of her life. > > "To me, it is a phenomenal thing that is happening to me," said the > 45-year-old mother and flea market sales lady from Cape Town. "Prior to > becoming a Baha'i, I would never have had any idea about traveling to > Israel, or anywhere else for that matter, coming from a very disadvantaged > community in South Africa. > > "But being a Baha'i opens your vision to the world around you," said Ms. > Josias, who became a Baha'i nine years ago. "I feel I'm part of this great > process where people are trying to become citizens of this whole wide world > and so that we see one another as brothers and sisters." > > That sentiment -- to help foster the processes of world peace and human > unity -- indeed underlies the construction of the kilometer-long terraces on > Mount Carmel, which is sacred not only to Baha'is but also to Christians, > Jews and Muslims. Built over 10 years at a cost of some US$250 million, the > terraces and two new adjacent administrative buildings are designed in part > to offer to humanity at large a vision of peace and harmony. > > Dedication ceremonies will begin at dusk on 22 May 2001 with an open-air > world premiere concert, which will be available live worldwide by satellite > and Internet webcast. On 23 May, indigenous musicians will perform and the > thousands of celebrants, many in colorful national dress, will ascend the > terraces for the first time. > > The diversity of the gathering will itself reflect the ideals of the Baha'i > Faith, which aims to enlist people everywhere, from all races, religions and > nationalities, in a common endeavor to build a just, peaceful and > ever-advancing civilization. There are about five million Baha'is and the > Faith is the second-most widespread independent religion after Christianity, > with communities in more than 200 countries and territories. > > "It will be like a 'preview' of how the world will become in the future, > showing a cross-section of humankind coming together in unity," said Nogol > Rahbin, a 20-year-old medical student, who will be among the delegation from > Sweden. "To me, this will be a chance to experience the vision that the > founder of the Baha'i Faith, Baha'u'llah, gave to humanity about 150 years > ago." > > Baha'i communities from more than 170 countries are planning to send > delegations. And the list of delegates likewise spans the gamut of > professions, social and economic class, and racial and religious > backgrounds. > > Attendees range from a New York investment banker to a young woman from the > Fulnio people in northeastern Brazil; from a Nepalese journalist to an > architectural student from Belarus. > > "To me, this event will show how a great many people, from all different > locations and backgrounds, can come together in unity, to help create > something as close to perfection as I can think of," said Alexandar Sawka, a > 17-year-old student from St. Johns, Antigua, West Indies. "The completion of > a project of this magnitude is a great step forward for any religion." > > The delegates were chosen by various means to represent their countries at > the inauguration ceremonies by their National Spiritual Assemblies, the > nation-level governing bodies in the Baha'i Faith. Limited to 19 delegates > each, National Spiritual Assemblies around the world used different methods > to choose their delegations. Some Assemblies gave weight to individuals who > had given exemplary service over the years while others simply held a > lottery. > > Sara Nobre, like other members of the delegation from Portugal, was chosen > by lot. The 24-year-old staffing manager from Lisbon feels incredibly lucky. > > "The event is the end result of many years of hard work from Baha'is > everywhere," said Ms. Nobre, who, like millions of other Baha'is, > contributed funds to the project, which was built entirely with donations > from Baha'is around the world. "It is the fruit of perseverance and love." > > Jean Scales, one of the delegates from the United States of America, feels > honored to have been selected. "I couldn't believe it at first," said Jean > Scales, a 71-year-old retired English professor who now lives in Durham, > North Carolina. "I have no idea why I've been chosen. I guess it is because > I've been active over the years." > > Dr. Scales has served the Faith on a number of levels since becoming a > Baha'i in 1960. Last year, for example, she toured South Africa and > Swaziland with her husband, Jay, to promote the Faith's ideals. > > Like others selected to travel to Haifa, she views the inauguration of the > terraces as a once-in-a-lifetime event, one that she believes will likewise > showcase the Faith's message and teachings. > > "The construction of these gardens is a reason for humanity to have hope," > said Dr. Scales. "So many people just don't see any hope in the world today, > between wars and rumors of wars. But this shows that humankind can come > together." > > Dr. Scales believes that the beauty of the gardens -- she has seen numerous > photographs of them -- reflects the harmonious blend of spiritual and > material attributes that Baha'is believe is needed in the world. > > "Around the world, Baha'is are asked to engage in social and economic > development projects to do things that will help their communities," she > said. "They don't just pray. Rather, they seek to combine the material and > the spiritual." > > Dr. Scales and others also believe that the completion of the Baha'i > projects on Mount Carmel, which include the construction of two new > administrative buildings, also represent a significant fulfillment of > prophecy, both for Baha'is and others. > > "I do know that Mount Carmel is important in Christian and Jewish history, > and that the Holy Land itself is important to many of the religions in the > world," she said. "In the main Christian prayer, they speak of 'Thy Kingdom > come, Thy will be done.' To me, this is a fulfillment of that prayer in that > we Baha'is believe we are helping to build the Kingdom of God on earth." > > -- > BWC-GF-010515-1-INAUGURATION-115-S > > > > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:47 AM To: LDRSLFSTShahid@aol.com Cc: LDRSLFSTJerry@aol.com; LDRSLFSTMgr@aol.com; FG@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Board Posting a Bahai Faith I'd like an explanation of WHY this message was removed. I asked a very simple and relevant question about a MAJOR lawsuit against the Bahai Faith, of which I have been a member since 1976. I and many, many Bahais have been quite disturbed by the why in which the fundamentalists among our fellow Bahais are allowed by AOL to distort and suppress discussion of very serious issues. It's NOT FUN to watch the manner in which the worst elements in the Bahai Faith slander and malign people on AOL who do not share their fanatical views. The present Volunteer Message Board Leader Shahid is particularly intolerant in this regard and regularly TOSes people as a means of silencing them. Documentation of the pervasive censorship and coercion practiced in the Bahai Faith may be found on my Bahai website and on Professor Juan Cole's, of the University of Michigan, especially in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:52 AM To: LDRSLFSTJerry@aol.com; LDRSLFSTMgr@aol.com Cc: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Fwd: Fred Glaysher was right! <> This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm --- In a message dated 5/19/2001 12:14:14 PM Central Daylight Time, ldrslfstshahid@aol.com writes: > Subj:Re: Fred Glaysher was right! > Date:5/19/2001 12:14:14 PM Central Daylight Time > From: ldrslfstshahid@aol.com (LDRS LFST Shahid) > To: glayshf@aol.com > > > > > I would like to remind list members that multiple posts of the same message > are considered spam and will be removed as such. > LDRS LFST Shahid > > Volunteer Message Board Leader > > Baha'i Message Board > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (rly-yd03.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.3]) > by air-yd01.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.36) with ESMTP; Sat, 19 May 2001 13:14:14 > -0400 > Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com (imo-r09.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.105]) > by rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.36) with ESMTP; Sat, 19 May 2001 13:14:08 > -0400 > Received: from ladder05.news.aol.com (ladder05.news.aol.com [172.31.45.159]) > by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) > with ESMTP id NAA15403 for ; > Sat, 19 May 2001 13:13:58 -0400 (EDT) > From: ldrslfstshahid@aol.com (LDRS LFST Shahid) > To: glayshf@aol.com > Date: 19 May 2001 13:13:19 EDT > References: <20010513113804.19237.00003306@ng-fo1.aol.com> > Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com > Subject: Re: Fred Glaysher was right! > Message-ID: <20010519131319.29070.00000831@ng-fi1.aol.com> > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? Dermod, I NEVER capitalize bahai when I am referring to what the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais have done to Baha'u'llah's faith. Why are you railing against Mahdi? I don't agree with much of Mr Mahdi's point of view but he's entitled to it. And I defend his right to use lower case if he wants to. His point about there indeed being a clergy in the bahai faith is quite accurate, judging from my 20+ years experience. The "administrative order" may not be called a clergy but does FUNCTION as one, along with all the traditional and typical abuses of power and influence.... Mr. Mahdi raises a valid point in this regard. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message news:9e80vb$1goja$1@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de... > mister maddy, > > You will not impress people with your rudeness and will not get your point > across as a result. How many times do you have to be told to capitalise > proper nouns like Bahai. Your not doing it is easily seen as a lack of > respect and merely marks you as a bigot. You're only gaining respect for > the Bahai Faith through your attitude, which is not at all what you want. > You're pandering to the persecution complex that a lot of these fundie > Bahais have - they seem to be a lot like you in that respect. > > Now you'll note I have deliberately misspelt your name in the salutation and > have no doubt that you feel insulted as a consequence. You would also feel > insulted if I called you a "lying, thieving, conniving, skiving, crooked, > cheating wee Shiite," which, of course I wouldn't do, not because it isn't > true, although I'm not saying it is, just that I wouldn't call you that here > because it will only garner sympathy for you - poor wee man being set upon > by that Rude Reaper. Cheap and silly insults only let you down and are > counter productive. > > You and I have much in common - the need to do these nasty Bahais down. Of > course we have much that is not in common - you have a sunny disposition; I > have only my catholic tastes in music and a protestant disposition when > being kicked out of the pub on a Saturday night, so I'm under the weather > this morning and in need of a revival. That is something these Bahais don't > enjoy - of course you don't either, seeing as how you have an antipathy to > the booze in common. > > So let's you and I unite to do these mad ones down but we need to work on > your act - you've got to learn to impress and the first area we have to work > on is your grammar. So let's see those Upper Case letters flow in future!! > > > "Mr Mahdi" wrote in message > news:20010520041948.26646.00000526@ng-bj1.aol.com... > > The bahai faith likes to use catchy, politically-correct phrases to lure > > unsuspecting people into its false religion. One of them is the claim > that > > they do not have a clergy like other religions, and bahais try to use this > > claim to bash other religions and try to make the bahai faith superior in > this > > regard. > > > > The deception of the bahai faith is always a factor when a bahai > missionary > > preaches his religion. The bahai faith does certainly have a clergy, it > is the > > "uhj" which serves as a secondary source of legislation for the bahai > faith. > > It is somewhat like the Vatican but for bahais. > > > > People need to know the deception and lies of the bahai missionaries. > They lie > > and insist their religion does not have a clergy but they have something > called > > the uhj making laws and passing official religious verdicts on issues > > > > The bahai faith will continue to decrease and eventually will die out by > the > > Will of God. Another chapter in the history of false religions and false > > prophets. > > > > Mahdi Muhammad > > > > https://members.xoom.com/mrmahdi/caliphate.html > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:27 AM Subject: Re: A Seeker's Guide to Baha'i Newsgroups (One Person's View) - FAQ for Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ People with only web access might want to use www.deja.com www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com or https://www.remarq.com/ They all offer reading and posting capabilities for people who can't directly access alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam. Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai An unmoderated Italian Bahai newgroup is now available: it.cultura.religioni.bahai If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly, I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg." Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting: https://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi tnum=0 David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai: https://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi tnum=3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below. Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?" ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdu'l-Baha: bahai.htm ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and religious conscience. bahai.htm ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.] Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?" ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here. (Three years later their NO votes are their only answer.) Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and conscience?" ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum, the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai and the experience of TENS of THOUSANDS of Bahais and people who have left the Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai ---------------------------------------------------------------------- January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was submitted to news.announce.newgroups. 1stRFD.htm Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO against talk.religion.bahai. Towfiq.htm March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in effect more than a year and a half later. March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to 691 NO. 1stRESULT.htm April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates alt.religion.bahai. arb.htm October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated newsgroups: UHJ1.htm November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA committee: archive.htm December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of Usenet interest polling: UHJ2.htm January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was submitted. 2ndRFD.htm February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES to 65 NO. 2ndRESULT.htm May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher that contain his signature file: srb23.htm September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL removes the TOS after considering both sides of the issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening him and the experience of others: AOL.htm September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses and the name of the poster: srbban.htm October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House and attempts to undermine the new support for the "neutral" RFD: srb67.htm December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the 3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai. 3rdRFD.htm December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai. Maneck1.htm January 10, 1999: Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63. 3rdRESULT.htm It should be noted that talk.religion.bahai eventually passed despite of the opposition of Bahais. The annotated RESULT may be read at 3rdRESULT.htm The annotated NO voters list may be read at NOvoters3rd.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community, see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This document at FAQ.htm See The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: bahai.htm Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Also see: Full Text of UHJ's Letter of April 7, 1999 UHJLetterApril71999.htm Juan Cole, "Commentary" on UHJ's "outburst of vehement ignorance" Outburst.htm Letter of Resignation from Paul Dodenhoff, Assistant to the Auxiliary Board LetterResignationPD.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: Terraces of the Hypocrites - Forthcoming Say one thing, mean another.... Built on the bones of THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of people who have DRIVEN out of the bahai faith over the last decades.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 6:54 AM Subject: Re: Truly Worldwide gathering convenes in Haifa See FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm " Dean Martineau" wrote in message news:7B%N6.3690$9D5.437730@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > SEEING MOUNT CARMEL TERRACES FOR THE FIRST TIME, BAHA'IS FEEL AS IF THEY ARE > IN "PARADISE" > > HAIFA, Israel, 20 May 2001 (BWNS) -- Like so many others among the some > 3,000 Baha'is arriving here today and seeing for the first time a series of > magnificent gardened terraces on Mount Carmel, Salomeea Romanescu of Romania > could only compare her experience to visiting "paradise on earth." > > "The sound of the water is like a divine song," said the 37-year-old > educator from Bucharest. "Combined with the smell of the flowers and the > harmony of the colors, all these sensations, they give you a feeling of > plentitude and peace. > > "I was wanting all my life to feel such a feeling of peace and harmony and I > am very happy now to be able to come here and experience it," she added. > > Arriving today for a week-long program of activities in celebration of the > inauguration of the terraces were Baha'i delegations representing more than > 180 countries. They came with high hopes and great expectations, eager to > get a look at a project that, over the last ten years and at a cost of some > $250 million, has virtually reshaped Mount Carmel. > > "It has been my dream to come here, and now my dreams have come true," said > Jaipal Bali Singh, a 42-year-old businessman from Srinagar, Kashmir, India, > who has been a Baha'i since 1986. "For me, this is the holiest place on > earth." > > Indeed, Mount Carmel, which is sacred to Christians, Jews and Muslims, also > looms large in Baha'i history and prophetic expectations. Baha'u'llah, the > Faith's Founder, chose Mount Carmel as the site of the spiritual and > administrative center of His cause in the 1890s when He was a prisoner here > of the Ottoman Empire and the mountain slope was covered with little more > than rocks and shrubs. He prophesied much greatness for Mount Carmel in the > future. > > Now, the fact that such extraordinary gardens, as well as two majestic new > administrative buildings, have arisen from those humble beginnings is a > source of great pride to Baha'is, who raised the funds for their completion > entirely from among themselves. > > "When I arrived, I came here directly from the bus and tears just came to my > eyes because of the beauty and spirituality of these terraces," said > Jean-Marie Nau, a delegate from Luxembourg. "This is a fulfillment of the > prophecies of our Faith, that these structures would be built here." > > The celebration of the completion of these projects begins on Monday with a > devotional visit by the 3,000 Baha'is assembled here to the resting place of > Baha'u'llah, at Bahji, located across Haifa Bay in the city of Acre. > > On Tuesday, 22 May, the delegates will assemble for a concert at the base of > Mount Carmel to officially inaugurate the terraces, which extend nearly one > kilometer up the mountainside. The concert will feature the premier of two > orchestral works composed especially for the occasion. Hundreds of Baha'i > communities in other countries are expected to watch the concert and > inaugural ceremony through a live satellite feed and Webcast. > > On Wednesday, the 3000 delegates will ascent the mountain as a group, > climbing the stairs towards the Shrine of the Bab, which is the focus of the > terraces and the second-most holy place to Baha'is after Bahji. > > On Thursday and Friday, further cultural, informational and devotional > programs will be held on Mount Carmel and at the nearby Haifa Convention > Centre. > > "Over the course of the next few days, the Baha'is gathered here from around > the world will celebrate what we feel is a significant achievement in the > creation of these terraces, " said Douglas Samimi-Moore, Program Coordinator > for the inaugural events. "One of the themes to the overall program will be > a look back at the growth and development of the Baha'i Faith in the 20th > century -- and a look ahead at the future. > > "The people gathered here represent the kind of world we are working for as > Baha'is, a unified community of people from every nation, religion, race, > ethnic group and culture," said Mr. Samimi-Moore. "And they are people, by > and large, who have been working towards this goal, whether in Africa, Asia, > the Americas, Europe or other regions of the world." > > Many of the participants arriving today indeed felt that the diversity of > the gathering itself is very much a fulfillment of Baha'u'llah's vision for > humanity. > > "To meet so many brothers and sisters, from different countries, speaking > different languages, it brings me great happiness," said Claudio Limachi, a > member of the Quechua people who is part of the delegation from Bolivia. "I > feel like I am next to God, with people of different colors, from different > places, and that we are flowers of one garden." > > Peter Wathum Onega, a 48-year-old farmer from a remote village in > northwestern Uganda, also said that the combination of beautiful gardens and > diverse people was his idea of heaven. > > "When you see this place, you see that peace can come in the world," said > Mr. Onega. "The beauty here, it can bring people together. It is, like the > Bible says, the Kingdom of God on earth." > > -- > BWC-GF-010520-1-ARRIVAL-116-S > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -- > Copyright 2001 by the Baha'i World News Service. All stories and photographs > produced by the Bahá'í World News Service may be freely reprinted, > re-emailed, > re-posted to the World Wide Web and otherwise reproduced by any individual > or > organization as long as they are attributed to the Bahá'í World News > Service. > For more information, visit https://www.bahaiworldnews.org. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? "Mr Mahdi" wrote in message news:20010520113906.26179.00000620@ng-bk1.aol.com... > Greetings Fred, > > >The > >"administrative order" may not be called a clergy but does > >FUNCTION as one, along with all the traditional and typical > >abuses of power and influence.... > > The reason why I said the bahai faith has a clergy was because they do. The > uhj is a legislative religious body where it passes religious verdicts which > serve as the official position of the bahai faith. So in every sense of the > word it is a clerical body. Bahai missionaries have deceptively hid this fact > from the public and unfortunately many people have bought into this lie. I quite agree with you here. The uhj is indeed a clergy, in every sense, as are the lackies below it, including those delegated to monitor the various Internet newsgroups and forums, such as talk.religion.bahai. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:19 AM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? "Nima Hazini" wrote in message news:9e9s0l$mb3$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > As repulsive as I find the idea of agreeing with Mahdi about anything, he's > right. The AO is an ecclesiastical body. > > cheers, > Nima Indeed it is.... with all the usual shortcomings and flaws, evils and deceits that Baha'u'llah LOATHED.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Mahdiality: UHJ as clergy "Nima Hazini" wrote in message news:9e9uh1$n15$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > > "Pat Kohli" wrote in message > news:3B0875D9.D0B5E5EA@ameritel.net... > > > The AO may be an overlapping fabric of some sort of ecclesiastical body, > > Umm, that is what I said, although minus the 'overlapping fabric' part. And > I intentionally used the phrase "ecclesiastical body" as opposed to > "clergy." Little difference, in my opinion. Dishonesty and lies, same thing, are the result. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:31 AM Subject: Re: An Invitation - the Baha'i Gardens To view the dark under-belly of the beast, see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Saman Ahmadi" wrote in message news:3B084438.9D420437@worldnet.att.net... > > On Tuesday, May 22nd, the Baha'i Gardens in Haifa, Israel > will be officially opened: > > https://www.bahaiworldnews.org/terraces/index.html > > The projects are designed by Iranian architects Huysan > Amanat, who designed Azadi Circle in Tehran, and Fariburz > Sahba, who designed the Lotus Temple outside New Dehli, > which is currently "the most visited building in the world": > > https://www.cnn.com/CNNI/Programs/hotspots/archive/behind.scenes/2001/0504/ > > -saman ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:23 PM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? The FACT is that the uhj EXERCISES **interpretive** power all the time, when it should not be doing so as stated by the clear and explicit statements of the central figures of the faith. That the uhj LIES and claims it isn't interpreting, when it obviously is, does not change the FACT. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Roger Reini" wrote in message news:+RkJO1HrvypUon9r9gAmKcNfVLuU@4ax.com... > On Mon, 21 May 2001 07:16:23 -0500, "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good > Standing" wrote: > > >"Mr Mahdi" wrote in message > >news:20010520113906.26179.00000620@ng-bk1.aol.com... > >> Greetings Fred, > >> > >> >The > >> >"administrative order" may not be called a clergy but does > >> >FUNCTION as one, along with all the traditional and typical > >> >abuses of power and influence.... > >> > >> The reason why I said the bahai faith has a clergy was because they do. > >The > >> uhj is a legislative religious body where it passes religious verdicts > >which > >> serve as the official position of the bahai faith. So in every sense of > >the > >> word it is a clerical body. Bahai missionaries have deceptively hid this > >fact > >> from the public and unfortunately many people have bought into this lie. > > > >I quite agree with you here. The uhj is indeed a clergy, in every sense, as > >are the lackies below it, including those delegated to monitor the various > >Internet newsgroups and forums, such as talk.religion.bahai. > > As someone who was formally enrolled in the Baha'i Faith, and who > still claims to be a believer in Baha'u'llah, you should know better > than this. You certainly know that the Universal House of Justice > does not claim interpretive or intercessory powers. > > > Roger (roger@rreini.com) > https://www.rreini.com/ ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: bahai - Re: Truly Worldwide gathering convenes in Haifa ALL of the CENTRAL figures of the faith guaranteed the right to their followers of the freedom of conscience, a right the uhj has INTERPRETED out of existence.... That fundamentalists like yourself claim otherwise does not change the FACT that the uhj has transgressed the explicit statements in writings limiting them to a LEGISLATIVE role. The dedication of the terraces has been marred by the lies and misrepresentations of the uhj itself, by its hypocrisy, by the tyranny it has imposed on the hearts and minds of Baha'u'llah's dispensation. Notwithstanding your ad hominem, those FACTS are glaringly obvious to all fair-minded people who are at all informed about the decade-long decline of the uhj into an every more ignorant fundamentalism. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Roger Reini" wrote in message news:YRgJO1Xh2u0BIogXf9XacXJ2tpQ7@4ax.com... > On Mon, 21 May 2001 06:54:31 -0500, "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good > Standing" wrote: > > >See FULL TEXT: > >New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 > >https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm > > > >-- > >Frederick Glaysher > >www.fglaysher.com > >The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > >https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > >" Dean Martineau" wrote in message > >news:7B%N6.3690$9D5.437730@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > >> SEEING MOUNT CARMEL TERRACES FOR THE FIRST TIME, BAHA'IS FEEL AS IF THEY > >ARE > >> IN "PARADISE" > >> > >> HAIFA, Israel, 20 May 2001 (BWNS) -- Like so many others among the some > >> 3,000 Baha'is arriving here today and seeing for the first time a series > >of > >> magnificent gardened terraces on Mount Carmel, Salomeea Romanescu of > >Romania > >> could only compare her experience to visiting "paradise on earth." > > [remainder snipped for space] > > Must you spoil every positive or favorable story about the Faith you > profess to love, even though your constant criticism of the > Administrative Order tends to give the lie to that notion? As someone > who professes to believe in Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l-Baha, how can you > not be moved by the celebration soon to take place, honoring the > realization of Baha'u'llah's vision for Mount Carmel? > > I plan to watch tomorrow's ceremonies, be it at the home of a friend > in the area or at my home via the Webcast. Since I have a cold right > now, it'll likely be the latter. > > > Roger (roger@rreini.com) > https://www.rreini.com/ ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:34 AM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Fwd: Another question or two <> ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:34 AM To: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Fwd: Board Posting a Bahai Faith <> ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:22 AM Subject: Re: Terraces of the Hypocrites - Forthcoming The latest victim is Deborah Buckhorn. Her story may be read at New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm The many other victims of bahai fundamentalists include Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and most recently Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman.... David Horowitz's observations in his book Radical Son apply equally well to bahai fundamentalism: "I, too, had to face the savage personal attacks by my former comrades that were designed to warn others to remain within the fold" (2). I urge the perceptive reader seeking to understand the bahai faith to consider the experience and views of the bahais and ex-bahais mentioned above. Many of their testimonies may be found on my bahai webpage below. Since bahai fundamentalists have always relied on their ability to operate one way in one country and another elsewhere and the Internet now no longer makes it possible, they have mounted a concerted campaign on Usenet to discredit and malign diverse voices. Their slandering me for "spamming" won't prevent perceptive people who even glance at the record from realizing what's really going on in their desperate attempt to prevent people in Israel, Iran, and elsewhere from knowing what is actually taking place in bahai cirlces around the world. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Javan Barzakhi" wrote in message news:s0kO6.58$Df4.10569@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > It gives me so much sadness to see you suffer so hard at such a glorious > moment in the history of mankind. > > I pray that you may see the light of guidance and the Truth. Because without > it you will continue to suffer and burn in the flame of hatred that you have > create in your heart. > > I wish you could see and understand the joy and the happiness Baha'is feel > in their hearts right now at this glorious moment. > > If you could only realise how hate makes you suffer and how love frees you > from all ailments. > > You can hate Baha'is as much as you wish, but at the end you are the one who > suffers. Baha'is are not afraid of being the target of hatred and name > callings of the like of you. Just look back through the history. > > "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" > wrote in message news:9e8h6i$1jnh7$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > [wrote some worthless blabbering ...] > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:23 AM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? The latest victim is Deborah Buckhorn. Her story may be read at New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm The many other victims of bahai fundamentalists include Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and most recently Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman.... David Horowitz's observations in his book Radical Son apply equally well to bahai fundamentalism: "I, too, had to face the savage personal attacks by my former comrades that were designed to warn others to remain within the fold" (2). I urge the perceptive reader seeking to understand the bahai faith to consider the experience and views of the bahais and ex-bahais mentioned above. Many of their testimonies may be found on my bahai webpage below. Since bahai fundamentalists have always relied on their ability to operate one way in one country and another elsewhere and the Internet now no longer makes it possible, they have mounted a concerted campaign on Usenet to discredit and malign diverse voices. Their slandering me for "spamming" won't prevent perceptive people who even glance at the record from realizing what's really going on in their desperate attempt to prevent people in Israel, Iran, and elsewhere from knowing what is actually taking place in bahai cirlces around the world. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Javan Barzakhi" wrote in message news:HekO6.64$Df4.9880@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" > wrote in message news:9ebisf$240qe$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > The FACT is that the uhj EXERCISES **interpretive** power > > all the time, when it should not be doing so as stated by the > > clear and explicit statements of the central figures of the faith. > > That the uhj LIES and claims it isn't interpreting, when it obviously > > is, does not change the FACT. > > This is an empty claim. Claims are easy to make, when not backed up with a > proofs. Nothing is a fact untill is proven. Prove it! > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:23 AM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? The latest victim is Deborah Buckhorn. Her story may be read at New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm The many other victims of bahai fundamentalists include Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and most recently Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman.... David Horowitz's observations in his book Radical Son apply equally well to bahai fundamentalism: "I, too, had to face the savage personal attacks by my former comrades that were designed to warn others to remain within the fold" (2). I urge the perceptive reader seeking to understand the bahai faith to consider the experience and views of the bahais and ex-bahais mentioned above. Many of their testimonies may be found on my bahai webpage below. Since bahai fundamentalists have always relied on their ability to operate one way in one country and another elsewhere and the Internet now no longer makes it possible, they have mounted a concerted campaign on Usenet to discredit and malign diverse voices. Their slandering me for "spamming" won't prevent perceptive people who even glance at the record from realizing what's really going on in their desperate attempt to prevent people in Israel, Iran, and elsewhere from knowing what is actually taking place in bahai cirlces around the world. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Pat Kohli" wrote in message news:3B0993D8.849BC2BF@ameritel.net... > > > BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing wrote: > > > Indeed it is.... with all the usual shortcomings and flaws, evils > > and deceits that Baha'u'llah LOATHED.... > > > > -- > > Wassup Fred, speaking of loathed deceits, are you in the lsa of your local > bahai community? > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:27 AM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? In addition to below, be sure to see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm Despite the slander of many fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, I have been a member of the bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my main bahai page. I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. The reason the uhj allows and encourages fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to backbite and slander me on talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai, AOL, BeliefNet, and elsewhere may be discovered in the three messages below: To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997 https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm To the Universal House of Justice - July 24, 1998 https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/UHJ72498.htm To uhj 12-10-1999 https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/uhj12-10-99.htm Open Petition for Baha'i Reformation February 8, 2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/Reformation.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Javan Barzakhi" wrote in message news:HekO6.63$Df4.9880@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > Frederick, > > You are either a Baha'i or not. What is this fundamentalist baha'i business. > You seem to be the only one talking about this thing? It must be a figment > of your imagination. Believing in Baha'u'llah doesn't make you a Baha'i. You > can call you whatever you want. But you are not a Baha'i. You can even try > single handedly to make the rest of the world think Baha'is should be called > "fundamentalist bahais". The fact of the matter is that you are one against > and 6 million who call themselves Baha'is and don't recognise you as a > Baha'i either. You are most welcome to call yourself whatever you want, but > don't start calling others with what you have come up with. That is name > calling. > > Javan. > > "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" > wrote in message news:9e8gg7$1jub2$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Dermod, > > > > I NEVER capitalize bahai when I am referring to what > > the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais have done > > to Baha'u'llah's faith. Why are you railing against Mahdi? > > I don't agree with much of Mr Mahdi's point of view but > > he's entitled to it. And I defend his right to use lower case > > if he wants to. > > > > His point about there indeed being a clergy in the bahai faith > > is quite accurate, judging from my 20+ years experience. The > > "administrative order" may not be called a clergy but does > > FUNCTION as one, along with all the traditional and typical > > abuses of power and influence.... Mr. Mahdi raises a valid > > point in this regard. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > www.fglaysher.com > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > > > > "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message > > news:9e80vb$1goja$1@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de... > > > mister maddy, > > > > > > You will not impress people with your rudeness and will not get your > point > > > across as a result. How many times do you have to be told to capitalise > > > proper nouns like Bahai. Your not doing it is easily seen as a lack of > > > respect and merely marks you as a bigot. You're only gaining respect > for > > > the Bahai Faith through your attitude, which is not at all what you > want. > > > You're pandering to the persecution complex that a lot of these fundie > > > Bahais have - they seem to be a lot like you in that respect. > > > > > > Now you'll note I have deliberately misspelt your name in the salutation > > and > > > have no doubt that you feel insulted as a consequence. You would also > > feel > > > insulted if I called you a "lying, thieving, conniving, skiving, > crooked, > > > cheating wee Shiite," which, of course I wouldn't do, not because it > isn't > > > true, although I'm not saying it is, just that I wouldn't call you that > > here > > > because it will only garner sympathy for you - poor wee man being set > upon > > > by that Rude Reaper. Cheap and silly insults only let you down and are > > > counter productive. > > > > > > You and I have much in common - the need to do these nasty Bahais down. > > Of > > > course we have much that is not in common - you have a sunny > disposition; > > I > > > have only my catholic tastes in music and a protestant disposition when > > > being kicked out of the pub on a Saturday night, so I'm under the > weather > > > this morning and in need of a revival. That is something these Bahais > > don't > > > enjoy - of course you don't either, seeing as how you have an antipathy > to > > > the booze in common. > > > > > > So let's you and I unite to do these mad ones down but we need to work > on > > > your act - you've got to learn to impress and the first area we have to > > work > > > on is your grammar. So let's see those Upper Case letters flow in > > future!! > > > > > > > > > "Mr Mahdi" wrote in message > > > news:20010520041948.26646.00000526@ng-bj1.aol.com... > > > > The bahai faith likes to use catchy, politically-correct phrases to > lure > > > > unsuspecting people into its false religion. One of them is the claim > > > that > > > > they do not have a clergy like other religions, and bahais try to use > > this > > > > claim to bash other religions and try to make the bahai faith superior > > in > > > this > > > > regard. > > > > > > > > The deception of the bahai faith is always a factor when a bahai > > > missionary > > > > preaches his religion. The bahai faith does certainly have a clergy, > it > > > is the > > > > "uhj" which serves as a secondary source of legislation for the bahai > > > faith. > > > > It is somewhat like the Vatican but for bahais. > > > > > > > > People need to know the deception and lies of the bahai missionaries. > > > They lie > > > > and insist their religion does not have a clergy but they have > something > > > called > > > > the uhj making laws and passing official religious verdicts on issues > > > > > > > > The bahai faith will continue to decrease and eventually will die out > by > > > the > > > > Will of God. Another chapter in the history of false religions and > > false > > > > prophets. > > > > > > > > Mahdi Muhammad > > > > > > > > https://members.xoom.com/mrmahdi/caliphate.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:32 AM Subject: Social Control in the bahai faith I quote from The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997, Juan R. I. Cole: One solution to this difficulty is to attempt to control what are thought of as key pressure points-vocal intellectuals, media, prominent institutions-and to give greater leeway to ordinary believers. This solution has the further advantage of making charges of repression less plausible to the rank and file, who have not personally experienced such constraints. Here I wish to examine social control mechanisms in the American Baha'i community. These include mandatory prepublication censorship of everything Baha'is publish about their religion, administrative expulsion, blackballing, shunning and threats of shunning. https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm - Sums it all up quite well in my opinion. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 7:21 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT - FULL TEXT - For FRAUD & LIBEL Full text below and also at New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm -- SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) and for MINORITY ) MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) No. CV 2001-01978 ) ) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and ) THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE ) BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, ) NEW MEXICO, a non-profit ) corporation, and the ) NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY ) OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF THE ) UNITED STATES, ) an Illinois Corporation, ) ) Defendants. ) VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD, LIBEL, BREACH OF CORPORATE DUTIES, AND DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF COMES NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record, Yorgos D. Marinakis, and for their Complaint states as follows: INTRODUCTION 1. Plaintiffs file this shareholder or member derivative suit against: - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly, or LSA), - their Trustees, and - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly, or NSA), with whom the Local Spiritual Assembly and itsTrustees have privity. 2. Plaintiffs allege that Trustees breached their duties as corporate officers. 3. Plaintiffs allege that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of deciding appeals owed to Plaintiffs. 4. Plaintiffs allege that the literature review policies of the Local Spiritual Assembly and the National Spiritual Assembly, which lie in privity, unlawfully prevent shareholders from their right to communicate with other shareholders. 5. Plaintiffs allege that Defendants failed to execute their duties under their corporate by-laws. PARTIES 6. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn was a shareholder or member of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the time of the incidents stated in this Complaint, and she continues to be a member. 7. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly) is a New Mexico non-profit corporation. Shareholder-members may appeal decisions by the Local Spiritual Assembly to the National Spiritual Assembly. 8. The Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Trustees) individually reside in Bernalillo County, New Mexico, as a condition of their Trusteeship. Trustees are Kambiz Victory, Ok-Sun and John McHenry, Manijeh Kavelin, Nelson Sapad, Harry and Sondra Day, Owen Creightney, and Carol Caldwell. Jenny Beery was a Trustee during the time of many of these incidents. 9. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly) is incorporated in and has its principal place of business in Illinois. FACTS 10. The Bahá'í have no clergy. Instead, each community in the Bahá'í Faith annually elects nine Trustees or a "Local Spiritual Assembly," which acts as an agent or subsidiary of the National Spiritual Assembly. Each National Spiritual Assembly answers to the supreme Bahá'í body, The Universal House of Justice. The Universal House of Justice established the Continental Board of Counsellors (sic) to assist them, and the Countinental Board of Counsellors further has the Auxiliary Board to assist them. 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. 12. Although Plaintiffs have consistently complied with Defendant Trustees' demands, they have also consistently filed complaints against them with the National and International Bahá'í authorities. This has enraged the Defendant Trustees. 13. Defendant Trustees have never made specific accusations or informed Plaintiffs of wrongdoing, other than vague statements such as "you have issues with the Spiritual Assembly." 14. Therefore, deep-seated animosities and distrust have arisen between Plaintiffs and the Trustees, which are incapable of resolution and thereby present an irreconcilable barrier to the ability of the corporation to function as is. 15. Plaintiffs' reasonable expectations that they would be able to participate in the management and activities of their corporation, as minority shareholders, have been thwarted since at least 1995. 16. Article IV of the LSA by-laws provides that the LSA shall compose differences and disagreements among members of the community. Article VII, section 9 of the NSA by-laws provides that any member of a Bahá'í community may appeal from a decision of his LSA to the NSA. Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an inaccurate and inequitable manner. 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the corporate books. 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their financial books. Defendants refused. 20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow named Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the Plaintiff deemed in bad faith. Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. Electioneering 22. At the Annual Meeting Feast of 1999, Defendant Trustees fraudulently rigged the election of Trustee Nelson Sapad by calling for applause for him three times prior to an election of corporate officers. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 23. Defendant Trustees or their agents fraudulently rigged the election of Harry and Sondra Day, by introducing them and calling for applause moments before an election of corporate officers. 24. Trustees do not ensure secret balloting at the Annual Meeting Feast. The usual practice is not to use a ballot box, but for members to lay their ballots on a plate or in a basket in plain sight of the election tellers. Ms. Buchhorn appealed to Brent Poirier on at least one election. Mr. Poirier responded by handling the collection basket himself. 25. In the member newsletter and prior to the annual election and during the Annual Meeting Feast, Trustees have used scriptural quotes to draw attention to persons serving on certain committees. Fraudulent and Oppressive Behavior Relating to the TV Show "Spiritual Reality" 26. Plaintiffs conceptualized and produced a TV show named "Spiritual Reality." After 100 showings, during which Defendant Trustees only complimented Plaintiffs, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, mandated major changes in the show. Plaintiffs complied and appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 27. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiffs to "temporarily postpone" their television show, "Spiritual Reality." Plaintiff complied, and Defendants never specifically informed Plaintiffs what they had done to precipitate the arbitrary and capricious termination. The effect of this order, namely the termination of the TV show, violated the right of shareholders to communicate with other shareholders. 28. Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences stated that the reasons for termination would be fully discussed at a later meeting, at which meeting those reasons were never discussed. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory, employee of channel 41, knew or should have known that a television program cannot be "temporarily postponed." Plaintiffs appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 29. Defendant Kambiz Victory, a Trustee, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, told named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn in regards to her television show that "Your teaching can have no effect because you are not in unity with the Spiritual Assembly." Defendant knew that Ms. Buchhorn's television show brought in 15% of the information requests during an unrelated major regional advertising campaign by Defendants. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 30. Defendant Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences set-up Plaintiffs to a "confession" of their animosity towards Defendant Trustees. Named Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Other Oppression 31. As an act of individual initiative, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn organized a Bahá'í parade float for several years for the New Mexico State Fair Parade. In 2000, Defendant Trustees convened a task force to organize the parade float for that year. On August 22, 2000, approximately 19 days before the parade, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, instructed Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to terminate her parade float activities. A false reason for this termination was published in the membership newsletter by Defendant Trustees, causing Plaintiff embarrassment. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 32. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to receive instruction on the Bahá'í Covenant. Plaintiff complied and attended that "instruction," which in fact consisted of three (3) hours of interrogation by Trustee Owen Creightney, and John and Ok-Sun McHenry. It became apparent at this meeting that Trustee Creightney had lied to the Trustees in order to oppress named Plaintiff. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 33. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to resign from the Bahá'í gospel choir. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 34. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, undermined named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's Saturday Night Coffee House and in effect stopped her Coffee House. Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to these circumstances. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 35. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, have ordered numerous Bahá'ís to shun Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn. 36. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory told a Plaintiff "I am the voice of God in this community." Libel 37. Defendant Trustees knowingly published false and defamatory information about Plaintiffs in the Albuquerque Bahá'í newsletter, specifically relating to the parade banner. Unlawful Prevention of Communication between Shareholders 38. Defendant National Spiritual Assembly has the policy that Local Spiritual Assemblies are responsible for reviewing pamphlets and newsletters and materials that mention the Faith such as songs, play scripts, souvenir items, and greeting cards, intended for publication or distribution within their communities, whereas the National Spiritual Assembly is responsible for review of those same materials intended for nationwide publication. CAUSES OF ACTION Count I 39. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 40. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly acted and continue to act fraudulently towards the Plaintiffs. 41. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count II 42. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 43. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly libeled the named Plaintiff. 44. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count III 45. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 46. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in good faith, which failure constitutes fraud. 47. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IV 48. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporates all previous paragraphs. 49. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act with the care an ordinary prudent person in like position would exercise under similar circumstances, which failure constitute fraud.50. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count V 51. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 52. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in a manner they reasonably believe to be in the best interests of the corporation and its members, which failure constitutes fraud. 53. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VI 54. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 55. The Trustees have repeatedly failed their duty to compose differences and disagreements with themselves and the members, in violation of their by-laws, which failure constitutes fraud. 56. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VII 57. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 58. The National Spiritual Assembly has repeatedly failed their duty to hear appeals from Plaintiffs, in violation of their by-laws. 59. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VIII 60. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 61. The literature review policies of the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies violate the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 62. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IX 63. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 64. The practice of the Local Spiritual Assembly to direct members not to speak about their dealings with the LSA with other corporate members violates the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 65. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. JUDICIAL RELIEF WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiffs request that this Court: 1. Declare that the Trustees acted fraudulently towards Plaintiffs; 2. Declare that Trustees libeled Plaintiffs; 3. Declare that the Trustees breached their corporate duties towardsPlaintiffs; 4. Remove the Trustees from their positions and enjoin them from serving in official Bahá'ís capacities for nineteen (19) years; 5. Remove the LSA Directors who are also Trustees; 6. Declare that the Local Spiritual Assembly violated members' rights to inspect corporate books and records; 7. Compel Defendant LSA to retain an independent certified public accountant to audit the books for the last two years; 8. Declare that Defendant LSA violated their corporate by-laws by failing to compose differences and disagreements among members of the community; 6. Declare that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of hearing Plaintiffs' appeals; 7. Declare that the literature review policies of the Bahá'ís violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 8. Enjoin Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and Local Spiritual Assembly from enforcing their literature review policy; 9. Declare that the secrecy practices of the Local Spiritual Assembly violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 10. Enjoin Defendant Local Spiritual Assembly from continuing their secrecy practices; 11. Award compensatory damages from Defendants to Plaintiffs; 12. Award attorney's fees and costs to Plaintiffs; 13. Any other relief this Court deems appropriate. Respectfully submitted, ___________________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) Named Plaintiff's Verification STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss. COUNTY OF BERNALILLO) COMES NOW Deborah Buchhorn, and being duly sworn, states as follows: 1. I have read and understood the contents of this Complaint. 2. I have personal knowledge of the facts stated herein. 3. I attest to and verify their truth and accuracy.__________________________ DEBORAH BUCHHORN SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me this __ day of ______, 2001. ________________________ Notary Public My Commission Expires: ---------- From: Yorgos Marinakis[SMTP:Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 12:21 PM To: Frederick Glaysher <> Dear Fred, The LSA filed a motion to dismiss the Complaint for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. It was entirely bogus. I have attached my response. The NSA has ignored the summons that I mailed, so they will be personally served next week in Illinois. We are putting up a website. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for your support. I'm thinking that you and Juan might want to put together an Amicus Curiae brief to submit to the court. Any interested party is allowed to submit a memo to the court as a "friend of the court." Best regards, Yorgos Marinakis, Ph.D. Attorney-at-law, MA # 645664, NM# 10078 P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174-5923 505-459-4664 (cell) 877-430-9550 (toll-free fax) Yorgos.Marinakis@abanet.org ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:02 AM To: Fred Glaysher Subject: PLAINTIFF'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT TRUSTEES MOTION TO DISMISS SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) and for MINORITY SHAREHOLDER- ) MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAH ' 'S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) No. CV 2001-01978 ) ) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAH ' S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and ) THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE ) BAH ' 'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, ) NEW MEXICO, a non-profit ) corporation, and the ) NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY ) OF THE BAH ' 'S OF THE ) UNITED STATES, ) an Illinois Corporation, ) ) Defendants. ) PLAINTIFF'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT TRUSTEES MOTION TO DISMISS COME NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record Yorgos Marinakis and for their response state as follows: INTRODUCTION By incorporating in the United States, Defendant Trustees agreed to follow the law of the land, but it is clear from their Motion to Dismiss that they believe the law of the land places them above the law. If the Bahá'í wish to undertake such civil jurisdiction over their members, they must provide due process, which they have failed to provide for seven years. ALLEGED FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES There are simply and categorically no first amendment issues in this case. Churches are not immune from suit over issues that do not involve religious doctrines: "[w]ithout regard to the governing structure of a particular church, a court may, where appropriate, apply neutral principles of law to determine disputed questions that do not implicate religious doctrine. Jones v. Wolf, supra, 443 U.S. 595, 99 S.Ct. 3020, 61 L.Ed.2d 775. 'Neutral principles' are wholly secular legal rules whose application to religious parties or disputes does not entail theological or doctrinal evaluations." It will be shown below that these "neutral principles" are well-established for religious nonprofit corporations. As a general rule, Courts can decide secular legal questions in cases involving some background issues of religious doctrine, so long as courts do not intrude into determination of doctrinal issues. When the canons of Bahá'í law are in conflict with the law of the land, the canons must yield. Defendant Trustees implicitly assert (Motion to Dismiss, page 9) that this Court cannot hear this case because it involves an intangible or emotional harm to an individual committed by a church. In fact, this case involves violations of New Mexico State corporate law and U.S. corporate common law, not simply offenses to someone's sensibilities. Counts III-V allege violations of statutory duties of corporate officers, Counts VI and VII allege specific violations of filed corporate by-laws, and Counts VIII and IX allege violations of U.S. corporate common law. Count I alleges fraud and Count II alleges libel, not as individual harms but as torts by a corporation upon a minority set of member-shareholders. Defendant Trustees assert (Defendant's Motion, Section B) that their actions are protected by the first amendment as "ecclesiastical" or "internal," simply because they are a religious entity. If that were the rule, then the Catholic Church could have claimed that a priest's decision to commit pederasty was an ecclesiastical decision and therefore not a civil matter. Plaintiffs in actuality allege that Defendant Trustees oppressed and abused minority shareholder-member Plaintiffs, while Defendants National Spiritual Assembly failed to act upon Plaintiffs' appeals. This is simply a case of fraud and oppression on the shareholders, committed by corporate officers, which cases State Courts decide every day. The fact that the corporation is a non-profit religious society is irrelevant, because there are no background issues of religious doctrine in this case. I will now justify that statement. One of the allegations relates to the failure to allow inspection of the corporate books. New Mexico law of non- profit corporations clearly states that corporations must allow its members to inspect all their books and records: "All books and records of a corporation may be inspected by any member, or his agent or attorney, for any proper purpose at any reasonable time." In denying shareholders access to corporate books and records, the corporation has the burden to demonstrate strong and articulable reasons for denying that access, such as improper purpose. Defendant Trustees denied Plaintiff Buchhorn access to their books and failed to demonstrate strong and articulable reasons for doing so, having merely informed Defendant Buchhorn that they needed the guidance of the National Spiritual Assembly. Because the right to inspect books and records by members was a right at common law, Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and knew or should have known that this action by Defendant Trustees violated the law. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's purpose was proper: the "draft" Annual Report showed an admitted 10% discrepancy in the books, and she wanted to investigate it. As another example, Counts III-V allege breach of duties of corporate officers and directors. New Mexico non- profit corporation law clearly states the duties of directors: "A director shall perform his duties as a director including his duties as a member of any committee of the board upon which the director may serve, in good faith, in a manner the director believes to be in or not opposed to the best interests of the corporation and with such care as an ordinary prudent person would use under similar circumstances in a like position." These are the same duties set forth in section 8.30 of the ABA Model Nonprofit Corporation Act (herein "Model Act"). These are the "neutral principles" discussed above in the first excerpt. According to that same Model Act, nondirector officers with discretionary authority have the same general duty of care and loyalty as directors. As delegates of the board of directors, officers are fiduciaries of the corporation and within the scope of their delegated management functions are subject to the same fiduciary duties as are directors. According to the Model Act, to determine whether a director or officer discharged the duty of good faith, the Court must "look to the director's state of mind to see if it evidenced honesty and faithfulness to the director's duties and obligations, or whether there was an intent to take advantage of the corporation. A director of a religious corporation in making a good faith determination may consider what the director believes to be: (1) the religious purpose of the corporation; and (2) applicable religious tenets, canons, laws, policies and authority." (emphasis added) This clearly implies that the Model Act applies to religious corporations. Case law also permits the Court examine the religious purposes or applicable religious laws: "Civil courts adjudicate ecclesiastical matters only when civil or property rights are involved, and then only when their determination is necessary and incident to the adjudication of civil or property rights The courts will inquire only as to what are the rules and decisions of the church and its tribunals, and what parties or factions adhere to them, without questioning their wisdom or propriety[.]" There is, however, no need for the Court in this case to examine the religious purpose of the corporation. Defendant Trustees acted in a manner that would qualify as domestic violence. These actions are so far opposed to the true interests of the corporation as to lead to the clear inference that no one thus acting could have been influenced by any honest desire to secure such interests, but that they must have acted with intent to subserve some ulterior purpose, regardless of the consequences to the corporation and in a manner inconsistent with its interests. Even if this Court finds that the issues in this case involve religious doctrine, it may still hear this case, because decisions by religious entities may be the subject of civil inquiry in cases of alleged fraud: "a civil court might be empowered to examine the propriety of such an appointment [i.e., the ecclesiastical decision of appointment to a Roman Catholic chaplaincy] if it were a product of 'fraud, collusion, or arbitrariness.'" This is precisely the situation in the instant case. Defendant Trustees have made numerous decisions that Plaintiff alleges were the product of fraud. Moreover, even if this Court finds that the issues in this case are purely ecclesiastical, it may still hear the case, because they may pose a substantial threat to public safety, peace and order: "The courts may not intervene in purely ecclesiastical matters, including church disciplinary actions concerning the conformity of church members to the standards of morals required of them, unless such actions pose a substantial threat to public safety, peace or order. Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972); Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. 398, 83 S.Ct. 1790, 10 L.Ed.2d 965 (1963); Paul v. Watchtower of New York, Inc., 819 F.2d 875 (9th Cir. 1987), cert denied, _____U.S.____, 108 S.Ct. 289, 98 L.Ed.2d 249 (1987)." The Bahá'í are the world's second-most widespread religion. Spiritual Assemblies, similar to Defendant, are located in cities across the United States. Widespread abusive and oppressive behavior by these entities is plausible and may represent a substantial threat to public safety, peace or order. Defendant Trustees claim that Plaintiffs' membership in the Bahá'í Faith constitutes implied consent to their government, which confers upon Defendant Trustees' decisions an internal nature deserving of judicial deference (Motion to Dismiss, page 6). However, this situation invites abuse if the Local Spiritual Assembly fails to follow its own commitment to the laws, which Plaintiff alleges they have done here. As discussed above, this Court has the power to determine whether the Bahá'í have followed civil and their own religious law. Defendant Trustees implicitly asserts "'religious questions permeate all of the issues in this case.'" The Supreme Court of New Jersey responded to such an allegation by stating that it was the Court's duty not to refer civil issues to a religious tribunal, but to hear them: "To the contrary, as we have noted, distinct civil issues should have been reserved by the court not merely because it had the discretion to decide them, but also because it had a duty to do so." Plaintiff suggests that if this Court is concerned with the first amendment issues that it follows the recommendations of the Supreme Court of New Jersey, and order the parties to fully brief which issues are religious and which are civil: "It is imperative, in order to avoid unconstitutional entanglements of civil and religious issues and to preserve the right to civil adjudication of secular disputes, for a trial court to specify which issues are religious and therefore to be settled by religious authority; and which issues are civil and to be resolved by the court Thus, when faced with cases such as this, trial courts initially should entertain full briefing and argument by the parties as to what issues are 'religious' and what are 'civil'; and as to what is the proper authority to decide 'religious' questions. By providing complete and clear rulings on such questions before referral to any religious tribunal, a trial court will provide the parties and appellate courts with a clear record for informed review of any possible first amendment issues." ALLEGED PLEADING ISSUES Plaintiffs' Complaint has complied with the New Mexico law of notice pleading, shareholder derivative suit pleading, and fraud pleading. In New Mexico, the theory of pleadings is to give the parties fair notice of the claims and defenses against them, and the grounds upon which they are based. Notice pleading requires only sufficient detail so that the parties and the court will have a fair idea of the action about which the party is complaining and can see the basis for relief. In a shareholder derivative action specifically, the complaint must be verified, the plaintiff must allege that she was a shareholder or member at the time of the transaction in question, and the plaintiff must allege with particularity the efforts she made to obtain the action she desires from the corporation. In Complaints for fraud, the plaintiff must allege the circumstances constituting fraud with particularity. Plaintiffs complied with all these requirements. The Complaint contains numerous specific incidents and factual allegations that involve more than named Plaintiff. Named Plaintiff verified the Complaint. There is no requirement to name all minority shareholders as Defendant Trustees claims. More specifically, as to Defendant Trustees' assertion regarding the libel claim (Motion to Dismiss, Section F, page 11), Plaintiff refers Your Honor to paragraph 31 of the verified Complaint. As to Defendant Trustees' assertion regarding the literature review claim (Motion to Dismiss, Section G, page 12), Defendants' literature review policy facilitated this abusive situation by preventing shareholders from communicating with other shareholders. This policy is in violation of U.S. law: "[t]he statutory right accorded a stockholder to communicate with other shareholders regarding matters of common interest as stockholders is much similar to freedom of speech." The fundamental position occupied this right can be seen by the frequency by which shareholders use it to justify their requests to inspect corporate books and records. In addition to enabling and facilitating the jeopardization of reasonable expectations of minority shareholders, this policy also in and of itself constitutes oppressive behavior. WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiff requests that this Court DENY Defendant Trustee's Motion to Dismiss. Respectfully submitted, Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) I hereby certify that a true and correct copy of the foregoing was mailed to: Deborah D. Wells on this ____ day of May, 2001. ____________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:03 PM To: Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Response to Motion to Dismiss - NM Lawsuit Mr. Marinakis: I can't say I'm surprised. I'm sure you're learning a lot about the Bahai Faith. I'd be happy to file an amicus curiae brief. I would need your guidance on what's appropriate and would be effective, as I have no legal background. I also cannot afford legal fees or become a party to the lawsuit. I assume neither would be involved. I'm also assuming the "memo" would be a page or two stating that I believe the lawsuit should go forward and be fully heard by the court. It seems to me very few people have experience with how widespread and systematic the tactics are that surface in your lawsuit. I can comment along those lines, if you wish, in good conscience. Juan Cole might be going through some personal internal struggles. I'm not sure what is the best way to approach him. Let me suggest you email him directly. If he declines, let me know and then I'll talk with him, in person, if necessary: jrcole@umich.edu Best wishes, Frederick Glaysher 668 Bolinger Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 USA 248-651-3380 www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm >From: "Yorgos Marinakis" >To: "Frederick Glaysher" >Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:21:50 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.146.128.221] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCD53ACA0096400438EAD89280DD05D50; Wed May 23 10:13:47 2001 >Received: (qmail 5310 invoked from network); 23 May 2001 17:12:43 -0000 >Received: from 1cust51.tnt6.albuquerque.nm.da.uu.net (HELO oemcomputer) >(63.24.171.51) by smtp.bwn.net with SMTP; 23 May 2001 17:12:43 -0000 >From Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net Wed May 23 10:14:19 2001 >Message-ID: <001401c0e3ac$df2b2280$33ab183f@oemcomputer> >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > >Dear Fred, > >The LSA filed a motion to dismiss the Complaint for failure to state a >claim upon which relief can be granted. It was entirely bogus. I have >attached my response. > >The NSA has ignored the summons that I mailed, so they will be personally >served next week in Illinois. > >We are putting up a website. I'll keep you posted. > >Thanks again for your support. I'm thinking that you and Juan might want >to put together an Amicus Curiae brief to submit to the court. Any >interested party is allowed to submit a memo to the court as a "friend of >the court." > >Best regards, > >Yorgos Marinakis, Ph.D. >Attorney-at-law, MA # 645664, NM# 10078 >P.O. Box 45923 >Rio Rancho, NM 87174-5923 >505-459-4664 (cell) >877-430-9550 (toll-free fax) >Yorgos.Marinakis@abanet.org ><< Plaintiff_sResponsetoDefendantLSA_sMotiontoDismiss.doc >> _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:17 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT - *** Response to Motion to Dismiss **** NEW In addition to below, be sure to see the original FULL TEXT of the New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) and for MINORITY SHAREHOLDER- ) MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAH ' 'S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) No. CV 2001-01978 ) ) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAH ' S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and ) THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE ) BAH ' 'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, ) NEW MEXICO, a non-profit ) corporation, and the ) NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY ) OF THE BAH ' 'S OF THE ) UNITED STATES, ) an Illinois Corporation, ) ) Defendants. ) PLAINTIFF'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT TRUSTEES MOTION TO DISMISS COME NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record Yorgos Marinakis and for their response state as follows: INTRODUCTION By incorporating in the United States, Defendant Trustees agreed to follow the law of the land, but it is clear from their Motion to Dismiss that they believe the law of the land places them above the law. If the Bahá'í wish to undertake such civil jurisdiction over their members, they must provide due process, which they have failed to provide for seven years. ALLEGED FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES There are simply and categorically no first amendment issues in this case. Churches are not immune from suit over issues that do not involve religious doctrines: "[w]ithout regard to the governing structure of a particular church, a court may, where appropriate, apply neutral principles of law to determine disputed questions that do not implicate religious doctrine. Jones v. Wolf, supra, 443 U.S. 595, 99 S.Ct. 3020, 61 L.Ed.2d 775. 'Neutral principles' are wholly secular legal rules whose application to religious parties or disputes does not entail theological or doctrinal evaluations." It will be shown below that these "neutral principles" are well-established for religious nonprofit corporations. As a general rule, Courts can decide secular legal questions in cases involving some background issues of religious doctrine, so long as courts do not intrude into determination of doctrinal issues. When the canons of Bahá'í law are in conflict with the law of the land, the canons must yield. Defendant Trustees implicitly assert (Motion to Dismiss, page 9) that this Court cannot hear this case because it involves an intangible or emotional harm to an individual committed by a church. In fact, this case involves violations of New Mexico State corporate law and U.S. corporate common law, not simply offenses to someone's sensibilities. Counts III-V allege violations of statutory duties of corporate officers, Counts VI and VII allege specific violations of filed corporate by-laws, and Counts VIII and IX allege violations of U.S. corporate common law. Count I alleges fraud and Count II alleges libel, not as individual harms but as torts by a corporation upon a minority set of member-shareholders. Defendant Trustees assert (Defendant's Motion, Section B) that their actions are protected by the first amendment as "ecclesiastical" or "internal," simply because they are a religious entity. If that were the rule, then the Catholic Church could have claimed that a priest's decision to commit pederasty was an ecclesiastical decision and therefore not a civil matter. Plaintiffs in actuality allege that Defendant Trustees oppressed and abused minority shareholder-member Plaintiffs, while Defendants National Spiritual Assembly failed to act upon Plaintiffs' appeals. This is simply a case of fraud and oppression on the shareholders, committed by corporate officers, which cases State Courts decide every day. The fact that the corporation is a non-profit religious society is irrelevant, because there are no background issues of religious doctrine in this case. I will now justify that statement. One of the allegations relates to the failure to allow inspection of the corporate books. New Mexico law of non- profit corporations clearly states that corporations must allow its members to inspect all their books and records: "All books and records of a corporation may be inspected by any member, or his agent or attorney, for any proper purpose at any reasonable time." In denying shareholders access to corporate books and records, the corporation has the burden to demonstrate strong and articulable reasons for denying that access, such as improper purpose. Defendant Trustees denied Plaintiff Buchhorn access to their books and failed to demonstrate strong and articulable reasons for doing so, having merely informed Defendant Buchhorn that they needed the guidance of the National Spiritual Assembly. Because the right to inspect books and records by members was a right at common law, Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and knew or should have known that this action by Defendant Trustees violated the law. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's purpose was proper: the "draft" Annual Report showed an admitted 10% discrepancy in the books, and she wanted to investigate it. As another example, Counts III-V allege breach of duties of corporate officers and directors. New Mexico non- profit corporation law clearly states the duties of directors: "A director shall perform his duties as a director including his duties as a member of any committee of the board upon which the director may serve, in good faith, in a manner the director believes to be in or not opposed to the best interests of the corporation and with such care as an ordinary prudent person would use under similar circumstances in a like position." These are the same duties set forth in section 8.30 of the ABA Model Nonprofit Corporation Act (herein "Model Act"). These are the "neutral principles" discussed above in the first excerpt. According to that same Model Act, nondirector officers with discretionary authority have the same general duty of care and loyalty as directors. As delegates of the board of directors, officers are fiduciaries of the corporation and within the scope of their delegated management functions are subject to the same fiduciary duties as are directors. According to the Model Act, to determine whether a director or officer discharged the duty of good faith, the Court must "look to the director's state of mind to see if it evidenced honesty and faithfulness to the director's duties and obligations, or whether there was an intent to take advantage of the corporation. A director of a religious corporation in making a good faith determination may consider what the director believes to be: (1) the religious purpose of the corporation; and (2) applicable religious tenets, canons, laws, policies and authority." (emphasis added) This clearly implies that the Model Act applies to religious corporations. Case law also permits the Court examine the religious purposes or applicable religious laws: "Civil courts adjudicate ecclesiastical matters only when civil or property rights are involved, and then only when their determination is necessary and incident to the adjudication of civil or property rights The courts will inquire only as to what are the rules and decisions of the church and its tribunals, and what parties or factions adhere to them, without questioning their wisdom or propriety[.]" There is, however, no need for the Court in this case to examine the religious purpose of the corporation. Defendant Trustees acted in a manner that would qualify as domestic violence. These actions are so far opposed to the true interests of the corporation as to lead to the clear inference that no one thus acting could have been influenced by any honest desire to secure such interests, but that they must have acted with intent to subserve some ulterior purpose, regardless of the consequences to the corporation and in a manner inconsistent with its interests. Even if this Court finds that the issues in this case involve religious doctrine, it may still hear this case, because decisions by religious entities may be the subject of civil inquiry in cases of alleged fraud: "a civil court might be empowered to examine the propriety of such an appointment [i.e., the ecclesiastical decision of appointment to a Roman Catholic chaplaincy] if it were a product of 'fraud, collusion, or arbitrariness.'" This is precisely thesituation in the instant case. Defendant Trustees have made numerous decisions that Plaintiff alleges were the product of fraud. Moreover, even if this Court finds that the issues in this case are purely ecclesiastical, it may still hear the case, because they may pose a substantial threat to public safety, peace and order: "The courts may not intervene in purely ecclesiastical matters, including church disciplinary actions concerning the conformity of church members to the standards of morals required of them, unless such actions pose a substantial threat to public safety, peace or order. Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972); Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. 398, 83 S.Ct. 1790, 10 L.Ed.2d 965 (1963); Paul v. Watchtower of New York, Inc., 819 F.2d 875 (9th Cir. 1987), cert denied, _____U.S.____, 108 S.Ct. 289, 98 L.Ed.2d 249 (1987)." The Bahá'í are the world's second-most widespread religion. Spiritual Assemblies, similar to Defendant, are located in cities across the United States. Widespread abusive and oppressive behavior by these entities is plausible and may represent a substantial threat to public safety, peace or order. Defendant Trustees claim that Plaintiffs' membership in the Bahá'í Faith constitutes implied consent to their government, which confers upon Defendant Trustees' decisions an internal nature deserving of judicial deference (Motion to Dismiss, page 6). However, this situation invites abuse if the Local Spiritual Assembly fails to follow its own commitment to the laws, which Plaintiff alleges they have done here. As discussed above, this Court has the power to determine whether the Bahá'í have followed civil and their own religious law. Defendant Trustees implicitly asserts "'religious questions permeate all of the issues in this case.'" The Supreme Court of New Jersey responded to such an allegation by stating that it was the Court's duty not to refer civil issues to a religious tribunal, but to hear them: "To the contrary, as we have noted, distinct civil issues should have been reserved by the court not merely because it had the discretion to decide them, but also because it had a duty to do so." Plaintiff suggests that if this Court is concerned with the first amendment issues that it follows the recommendations of the Supreme Court of New Jersey, and order the parties to fully brief which issues are religious and which are civil: "It is imperative, in order to avoid unconstitutional entanglements of civil and religious issues and to preserve the right to civil adjudication of secular disputes, for a trial court to specify which issues are religious and therefore to be settled by religious authority; and which issues are civil and to be resolved by the court Thus, when faced with cases such as this, trial courts initially should entertain full briefing and argument by the parties as to what issues are 'religious' and what are 'civil'; and as to what is the proper authority to decide 'religious' questions. By providing complete and clear rulings on such questions before referral to any religious tribunal, a trial court will provide the parties and appellate courts with a clear record for informed review of any possible first amendment issues." ALLEGED PLEADING ISSUES Plaintiffs' Complaint has complied with the New Mexico law of notice pleading, shareholder derivative suit pleading, and fraud pleading. In New Mexico, the theory of pleadings is to give the parties fair notice of the claims and defenses against them, and the grounds upon which they are based. Notice pleading requires only sufficient detail so that the parties and the court will have a fair idea of the action about which the party is complaining and can see the basis for relief. In a shareholder derivative action specifically, the complaint must be verified, the plaintiff must allege that she was a shareholder or member at the time of the transaction in question, and the plaintiff must allege with particularity the efforts she made to obtain the action she desires from the corporation. In Complaints for fraud, the plaintiff must allege the circumstances constituting fraud with particularity. Plaintiffs complied with all these requirements. The Complaint contains numerous specific incidents and factual allegations that involve more than named Plaintiff. Named Plaintiff verified the Complaint. There is no requirement to name all minority shareholders as Defendant Trustees claims. More specifically, as to Defendant Trustees' assertion regarding the libel claim (Motion to Dismiss, Section F, page 11), Plaintiff refers Your Honor to paragraph 31 of the verified Complaint. As to Defendant Trustees' assertion regarding the literature review claim (Motion to Dismiss, Section G, page 12), Defendants' literature review policy facilitated this abusive situation by preventing shareholders from communicating with other shareholders. This policy is in violation of U.S. law: "[t]he statutory right accorded a stockholder to communicate with other shareholders regarding matters of common interest as stockholders is much similar to freedom of speech." The fundamental position occupied this right can be seen by the frequency by which shareholders use it to justify their requests to inspect corporate books and records. In addition to enabling and facilitating the jeopardization of reasonable expectations of minority shareholders, this policy also in and of itself constitutes oppressive behavior. WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiff requests that this Court DENY Defendant Trustee's Motion to Dismiss. Respectfully submitted, Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) I hereby certify that a true and correct copy of the foregoing was mailed to: Deborah D. Wells on this ____ day of May, 2001. ____________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Baha'is Successfully Conduct Challenging Extravaganza in Israel In addition to below, be sure to see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm " Dean Martineau" wrote in message news:TyXO6.15005$9D5.1291836@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > COMPLEX CHALLENGES FOR BAHA'IS IN PUTTING ON AN OUTDOOR CELEBRATION FOR > THOUSANDS > > HAIFA, Israel, 21 May 2001 (BWNS) -- Gry Kvalheim worked behind the scenes > on logistical arrangements for the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics and also the > 1992 Baha'i World Congress, which brought some 30,000 Baha'is from around > the world to New York. > > She nevertheless counts the inauguration of a series of majestic garden > terraces tomorrow on Mount Carmel as one of the most complex undertakings > she's ever been involved with. > > Among other things, the celebration this week entailed making travel and > hotel arrangements for 3,000 Baha'is from more than 180 countries, the > construction of a 4,000-seat temporary amphitheater, and the coordination of > a musical program that brings together a symphony orchestra from Israel, a > choir from Romania, and soloists from around the world. More than 60 buses > have been hired just to shuttle participants around. > > "This is one of the biggest events in Israel this year, and certainly one of > the biggest in Haifa ever," said Ms. Kvalheim, who is Managing Director of > the Inaugural Events Office, which has organized the celebration. "We've > essentially had to book every hotel room in Haifa and in surrounding cities, > from Nahariyya on the other side of Acre to Zichron Ya'acov in the south." > > Ms. Kvalheim, who has been a Baha'i since 1959, also feels the assignment is > the most significant she has ever undertaken. > > "As a Baha'i, I don't think you can even fathom the importance of this > event," she said, noting that the scriptures of the Baha'i Faith promise > that such structures would one day grace the slope of Mount Carmel. "For us, > it is prophecy fulfilled." > > Built at a cost of some $250 million, the 19 garden terraces and two nearby > administrative buildings are being offered up to the world this week as a > demonstration of how diverse peoples can come together in peace and harmony. > > The worldwide Baha'i community of some five million people from virtually > every background and nation have sacrificed and labored in a spirit of love > and unity over the last decade to fund and complete the project. > > Today, in celebration of the project's completion, the 3,000 Baha'is > gathered here visited the Shrine of Baha'u'llah, the Founder of the Baha'i > Faith. Located in the city of Acre, across the bay from Haifa, the Shrine of > Baha'u'llah is the most holy place in the world for Baha'is. The program > featured prayers and devotional elements designed to spiritually prepare > them for the week ahead. > > On Tuesday, the terraces will be formally inaugurated with a world premiere > concert of two orchestral works composed specifically for the occasion and > the reading of a message from the Universal House of Justice, the > international governing body of the Baha'i Faith. The concert and ceremonies > will be available worldwide by satellite and webcast. Dozens of > representatives of the international media have expressed a desire to attend > and cover the event. > > Making logistical arrangements for the concert and inaugural ceremonies, > which will continue until Friday, has been a huge undertaking, made more > complex because the concert will be held outside, at the base of Mount > Carmel. > > The Inaugural Events Office has arranged for the construction of a massive > 4,000-seat temporary amphitheater around the plaza that forms the first > terrace on the mountainside, at the top of Ben Gurion Avenue. This has > necessitated closing the intersection of Ben Gurion Avenue and Hagefen > Street, one of the city busiest locations, to automobile traffic for two > weeks. The Inaugural Events Office has collaborated closely with the City of > Haifa throughout the project. > > "We consider the gardens a gift to us," said Moshe Tzur, managing director > of the Haifa Tourist Board. "We hope it will become one of the main tourist > attractions in the world. And the people of Haifa, they understand and are > more than happy about it." > > Jack Lenz, music director for the event, said the holding of such a concert > outside, in a temporary amphitheater, entailed numerous special musical > concerns. > > "We're not doing this with the natural acoustics of a hall, and the > challenge is how do you make it sound good outside," said Mr. Lenz, who is > himself a well-known composer, artist and producer in Canada. > > One potential problem is excess wind, which could create unwanted noise. To > counter that, wind socks will be put on all microphones. > > "You plan and do what you can do and then you leave the rest up to God," > said Mr. Lenz. "I'm assuming the weather will be great and the wind will be > low." > > As well, said Mr. Lenz, concerts held outside often lack the fullness of > sound that is heard in a concert hall, where the sound waves are reflected > off the walls and ceiling. To compensate, they will put individual > microphones on each instrument in the orchestra, instead of at just a few > locations, and then add reverberation or other effects at the mixing > console. > > Like Ms. Kvalheim, Mr. Lenz feels that an extraordinary sense of history and > importance surrounding the inauguration. > > "This is a unique event in the Baha'i dispensation," said Mr. Lenz. "The > terraces will be here for hundreds of years. The mountain itself has been > celebrated in the Judeo-Christian religious tradition for thousands of > years. In the Bible, for example, Isaiah talks about songs of "everlasting > joy" on Mount Carmel. > > "More than 75 percent of the program on Tuesday night is music," added Mr. > Lenz. "So that fits in with the whole prophetic vision of the mountain." > > In addition to the participation of more than 3,000 Baha'is from around the > world, several hundred dignitaries are expected to attend the concert > tomorrow. The list of confirmed attendees includes a number of government > ministers, several Israeli Supreme Court justices, ambassadors and members > of the Israeli Knesset. > > "The project and its completion has provoked an unexpectedly enthusiastic > response within Israel," said Albert Lincoln, secretary general of the > Baha'i International Community. > > Dr. Lincoln said during Passover, for example, the number of Israeli > visitors to the gardens that immediately surround the Shrine of the Bab, > which have long been open to the public, exceeded 12,000 visitors on one > day. Previously, he said, visits to those gardens ran from 1,000 to 2,000 > on Jewish holy days. > > "Likewise, the response to the invitations sent out for the opening > ceremonies has been far beyond anything anticipated by professional events > organizers or any previous experience we've had," said Dr. Lincoln. > > In anticipation of the thousands more who will want to visit the terraces, > which will be opened to the public on 4 June, a special computerized > reservation system has been set up and a new group of tour guides have been > trained. Ultimately, it is expected that more than a million people a year > will visit the terraces. The tours will be offered at no charge. > > > -- > BWC-BP-010521-1-LOGISTICS-118-S > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -- > Copyright 2001 by the Baha'i World News Service. All stories and photographs > produced by the Bahá'í World News Service may be freely reprinted, > re-emailed, > re-posted to the World Wide Web and otherwise reproduced by any individual > or > organization as long as they are attributed to the Bahá'í World News > Service. > For more information, visit https://www.bahaiworldnews.org. > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:21 AM Subject: Re: Universal House of Justice addresses the World In addition to below, be sure to see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm " Dean Martineau" wrote in message news:PyXO6.15003$9D5.1291836@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > STATEMENT OF THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE FOR THE OPENING OF THE TERRACES > ON MOUNT CARMEL > > HAIFA, Israel, 22 May 2001 (BWNS) -- Statement of the Universal House > Justice on the occasion of the official opening of the Terraces of the > Shrine of the Bab, 22 May 2001 > > As delivered by Dr. Albert Lincoln, Secretary General of the Baha'i > International Community > > With joyful and thankful hearts, we welcome all who have come from near and > far to join us on this auspicious occasion for the Baha'is of the world. We > acknowledge with deep appreciation the presence of so many distinguished > guests. > > A century and a half have passed since that unspeakable tragedy in the > northwest of Persia when the Bab faced the volley fired at Him from the > rifles of 750 soldiers. The soldiers had followed the orders of the highest > authorities in the land. The Bab's mangled body was then thrown on the side > of a moat outside the city, abandoned to what His cold-blooded persecutors > thought would be a dishonourable fate. They had hoped thus to put an end to > the growing influence of His teachings on masses of people throughout the > country. These masses had accepted, in the face of intense persecution, the > Bab's claim to prophethood, and their lives were being transformed > spiritually and morally as He prepared them for what He said was the dawn of > a new age in which a world civilization would be born and flourish. The > expectations that stirred countless hearts were heightened even more > sublimely by the Bab's announcement that One greater than He would soon > arise, One who would reveal the! > u! > nparalleled character of the promised world civilization that would signify > the coming of age of the entire human race. > > We are met not to lament the tragedy of the Bab's martyrdom and the > persecutions that followed; rather have we come to celebrate the culmination > and acknowledge the meaning of an unprecedented project that had its > beginning over a century ago. It was then that Baha'u'llah, Whom the > Ottoman authorities had banished to Acre to serve out His days in > confinement, visited Mount Carmel and selected the spot where the remains of > His Herald would be interred. We humbly trust that the wondrous result > achieved by the completion of the nineteen terraced gardens, at the heart of > which rises the Shrine of the Bab, is a fitting fulfilment of the vision > initiated by Baha'u'llah. > > The sufferings sustained by the Bab so as to arouse humanity to the > responsibilities of its coming age of maturity were themselves indications > of the intensity of the struggle necessary for the world's people to pass > through the age of humanity's collective adolescence. Paradoxical as it may > seem, this is a source of hope. The turmoil and crises of our time underlie > a momentous transition in human affairs. Simultaneous processes of > disintegration and integration have clearly been accelerating throughout the > planet since the Bab appeared in Persia. That our Earth has contracted into > a neighbourhood, no one can seriously deny. The world is being made new. > Death pangs are yielding to birth pangs. The pain shall pass when members > of the human race act upon the common recognition of their essential > oneness. There is a light at the end of this tunnel of change beckoning > humanity to the goal destined for it according to the testimonies recorded > in all the Holy Books. > > The Shrine of the Bab stands as a symbol of the efficacy of that age-old > promise, a sign of its urgency. It is, as well, a monument to the triumph > of love over hate. The gardens which surround that structure, in their rich > variety of colours and plants, are a reminder that the human race can live > harmoniously in all its diversity. The light that shines from the central > edifice is as a beacon of hope to the countless multitudes who yearn for a > life that satisfies the soul as well as the body. > > This inextinguishable hope stems from words such as these from the Pen of > Baha'u'llah: "This is the Day in which God's most excellent favours have > been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace has been > infused into all created things." May all who strive, often against great > odds, to uphold principles of justice and concord be encouraged by these > assurances. > > In reflecting on the years of effort invested in this daunting project, we > are moved to express to the people of Haifa the warmth of the feeling in our > hearts. Their city will for all time be extolled by the Baha'is everywhere > as the place in which the mortal remains of the youthful Prophet-Herald of > their Faith finally found refuge, and this after half a century of having to > be secretly moved for protection from one place to another in His native > land. The patience and cordiality shown towards the Baha'is throughout the > most difficult years of the construction work exemplify the spirit of > goodwill in which so much of the world stands so greatly in need. Haifa is > providentially situated on Mount Carmel, with its immortal associations with > saintly visionaries, whose concern throughout the ages was largely focused > on the promise of peace. May Haifa achieve wide renown not just as a place > of natural beauty but more especially as the city of peace. > > Let the word go forth, then, from this sacred spot, from this Mountain of > the Lord, that the unity and peace of the world are not only possible but > inevitable. Their time has come. > > > -- > BWC-UHJ-010522-1-TERRACES-119-S > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -- > Copyright 2001 by the Baha'i World News Service. All stories and photographs > produced by the Bahá'í World News Service may be freely reprinted, > re-emailed, > re-posted to the World Wide Web and otherwise reproduced by any individual > or > organization as long as they are attributed to the Bahá'í World News > Service. > For more information, visit https://www.bahaiworldnews.org. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:28 AM Subject: Re: bahai - LAWSUIT - *** Response to Motion to Dismiss **** NEW In addition to below, be sure to see the original FULL TEXT of the New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) and for MINORITY SHAREHOLDER- ) MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAH ' 'S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) No. CV 2001-01978 ) ) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAH ' S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and ) THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE ) BAH ' 'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, ) NEW MEXICO, a non-profit ) corporation, and the ) NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY ) OF THE BAH ' 'S OF THE ) UNITED STATES, ) an Illinois Corporation, ) ) Defendants. ) PLAINTIFF'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT TRUSTEES MOTION TO DISMISS COME NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record Yorgos Marinakis and for their response state as follows: INTRODUCTION By incorporating in the United States, Defendant Trustees agreed to follow the law of the land, but it is clear from their Motion to Dismiss that they believe the law of the land places them above the law. If the Bahá'í wish to undertake such civil jurisdiction over their members, they must provide due process, which they have failed to provide for seven years. ALLEGED FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES There are simply and categorically no first amendment issues in this case. Churches are not immune from suit over issues that do not involve religious doctrines: "[w]ithout regard to the governing structure of a particular church, a court may, where appropriate, apply neutral principles of law to determine disputed questions that do not implicate religious doctrine. Jones v. Wolf, supra, 443 U.S. 595, 99 S.Ct. 3020, 61 L.Ed.2d 775. 'Neutral principles' are wholly secular legal rules whose application to religious parties or disputes does not entail theological or doctrinal evaluations." It will be shown below that these "neutral principles" are well-established for religious nonprofit corporations. As a general rule, Courts can decide secular legal questions in cases involving some background issues of religious doctrine, so long as courts do not intrude into determination of doctrinal issues. When the canons of Bahá'í law are in conflict with the law of the land, the canons must yield. Defendant Trustees implicitly assert (Motion to Dismiss, page 9) that this Court cannot hear this case because it involves an intangible or emotional harm to an individual committed by a church. In fact, this case involves violations of New Mexico State corporate law and U.S. corporate common law, not simply offenses to someone's sensibilities. Counts III-V allege violations of statutory duties of corporate officers, Counts VI and VII allege specific violations of filed corporate by-laws, and Counts VIII and IX allege violations of U.S. corporate common law. Count I alleges fraud and Count II alleges libel, not as individual harms but as torts by a corporation upon a minority set of member-shareholders. Defendant Trustees assert (Defendant's Motion, Section B) that their actions are protected by the first amendment as "ecclesiastical" or "internal," simply because they are a religious entity. If that were the rule, then the Catholic Church could have claimed that a priest's decision to commit pederasty was an ecclesiastical decision and therefore not a civil matter. Plaintiffs in actuality allege that Defendant Trustees oppressed and abused minority shareholder-member Plaintiffs, while Defendants National Spiritual Assembly failed to act upon Plaintiffs' appeals. This is simply a case of fraud and oppression on the shareholders, committed by corporate officers, which cases State Courts decide every day. The fact that the corporation is a non-profit religious society is irrelevant, because there are no background issues of religious doctrine in this case. I will now justify that statement. One of the allegations relates to the failure to allow inspection of the corporate books. New Mexico law of non- profit corporations clearly states that corporations must allow its members to inspect all their books and records: "All books and records of a corporation may be inspected by any member, or his agent or attorney, for any proper purpose at any reasonable time." In denying shareholders access to corporate books and records, the corporation has the burden to demonstrate strong and articulable reasons for denying that access, such as improper purpose. Defendant Trustees denied Plaintiff Buchhorn access to their books and failed to demonstrate strong and articulable reasons for doing so, having merely informed Defendant Buchhorn that they needed the guidance of the National Spiritual Assembly. Because the right to inspect books and records by members was a right at common law, Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and knew or should have known that this action by Defendant Trustees violated the law. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's purpose was proper: the "draft" Annual Report showed an admitted 10% discrepancy in the books, and she wanted to investigate it. As another example, Counts III-V allege breach of duties of corporate officers and directors. New Mexico non- profit corporation law clearly states the duties of directors: "A director shall perform his duties as a director including his duties as a member of any committee of the board upon which the director may serve, in good faith, in a manner the director believes to be in or not opposed to the best interests of the corporation and with such care as an ordinary prudent person would use under similar circumstances in a like position." These are the same duties set forth in section 8.30 of the ABA Model Nonprofit Corporation Act (herein "Model Act"). These are the "neutral principles" discussed above in the first excerpt. According to that same Model Act, nondirector officers with discretionary authority have the same general duty of care and loyalty as directors. As delegates of the board of directors, officers are fiduciaries of the corporation and within the scope of their delegated management functions are subject to the same fiduciary duties as are directors. According to the Model Act, to determine whether a director or officer discharged the duty of good faith, the Court must "look to the director's state of mind to see if it evidenced honesty and faithfulness to the director's duties and obligations, or whether there was an intent to take advantage of the corporation. A director of a religious corporation in making a good faith determination may consider what the director believes to be: (1) the religious purpose of the corporation; and (2) applicable religious tenets, canons, laws, policies and authority." (emphasis added) This clearly implies that the Model Act applies to religious corporations. Case law also permits the Court examine the religious purposes or applicable religious laws: "Civil courts adjudicate ecclesiastical matters only when civil or property rights are involved, and then only when their determination is necessary and incident to the adjudication of civil or property rights The courts will inquire only as to what are the rules and decisions of the church and its tribunals, and what parties or factions adhere to them, without questioning their wisdom or propriety[.]" There is, however, no need for the Court in this case to examine the religious purpose of the corporation. Defendant Trustees acted in a manner that would qualify as domestic violence. These actions are so far opposed to the true interests of the corporation as to lead to the clear inference that no one thus acting could have been influenced by any honest desire to secure such interests, but that they must have acted with intent to subserve some ulterior purpose, regardless of the consequences to the corporation and in a manner inconsistent with its interests. Even if this Court finds that the issues in this case involve religious doctrine, it may still hear this case, because decisions by religious entities may be the subject of civil inquiry in cases of alleged fraud: "a civil court might be empowered to examine the propriety of such an appointment [i.e., the ecclesiastical decision of appointment to a Roman Catholic chaplaincy] if it were a product of 'fraud, collusion, or arbitrariness.'" This is precisely thesituation in the instant case. Defendant Trustees have made numerous decisions that Plaintiff alleges were the product of fraud. Moreover, even if this Court finds that the issues in this case are purely ecclesiastical, it may still hear the case, because they may pose a substantial threat to public safety, peace and order: "The courts may not intervene in purely ecclesiastical matters, including church disciplinary actions concerning the conformity of church members to the standards of morals required of them, unless such actions pose a substantial threat to public safety, peace or order. Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972); Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. 398, 83 S.Ct. 1790, 10 L.Ed.2d 965 (1963); Paul v. Watchtower of New York, Inc., 819 F.2d 875 (9th Cir. 1987), cert denied, _____U.S.____, 108 S.Ct. 289, 98 L.Ed.2d 249 (1987)." The Bahá'í are the world's second-most widespread religion. Spiritual Assemblies, similar to Defendant, are located in cities across the United States. Widespread abusive and oppressive behavior by these entities is plausible and may represent a substantial threat to public safety, peace or order. Defendant Trustees claim that Plaintiffs' membership in the Bahá'í Faith constitutes implied consent to their government, which confers upon Defendant Trustees' decisions an internal nature deserving of judicial deference (Motion to Dismiss, page 6). However, this situation invites abuse if the Local Spiritual Assembly fails to follow its own commitment to the laws, which Plaintiff alleges they have done here. As discussed above, this Court has the power to determine whether the Bahá'í have followed civil and their own religious law. Defendant Trustees implicitly asserts "'religious questions permeate all of the issues in this case.'" The Supreme Court of New Jersey responded to such an allegation by stating that it was the Court's duty not to refer civil issues to a religious tribunal, but to hear them: "To the contrary, as we have noted, distinct civil issues should have been reserved by the court not merely because it had the discretion to decide them, but also because it had a duty to do so." Plaintiff suggests that if this Court is concerned with the first amendment issues that it follows the recommendations of the Supreme Court of New Jersey, and order the parties to fully brief which issues are religious and which are civil: "It is imperative, in order to avoid unconstitutional entanglements of civil and religious issues and to preserve the right to civil adjudication of secular disputes, for a trial court to specify which issues are religious and therefore to be settled by religious authority; and which issues are civil and to be resolved by the court Thus, when faced with cases such as this, trial courts initially should entertain full briefing and argument by the parties as to what issues are 'religious' and what are 'civil'; and as to what is the proper authority to decide 'religious' questions. By providing complete and clear rulings on such questions before referral to any religious tribunal, a trial court will provide the parties and appellate courts with a clear record for informed review of any possible first amendment issues." ALLEGED PLEADING ISSUES Plaintiffs' Complaint has complied with the New Mexico law of notice pleading, shareholder derivative suit pleading, and fraud pleading. In New Mexico, the theory of pleadings is to give the parties fair notice of the claims and defenses against them, and the grounds upon which they are based. Notice pleading requires only sufficient detail so that the parties and the court will have a fair idea of the action about which the party is complaining and can see the basis for relief. In a shareholder derivative action specifically, the complaint must be verified, the plaintiff must allege that she was a shareholder or member at the time of the transaction in question, and the plaintiff must allege with particularity the efforts she made to obtain the action she desires from the corporation. In Complaints for fraud, the plaintiff must allege the circumstances constituting fraud with particularity. Plaintiffs complied with all these requirements. The Complaint contains numerous specific incidents and factual allegations that involve more than named Plaintiff. Named Plaintiff verified the Complaint. There is no requirement to name all minority shareholders as Defendant Trustees claims. More specifically, as to Defendant Trustees' assertion regarding the libel claim (Motion to Dismiss, Section F, page 11), Plaintiff refers Your Honor to paragraph 31 of the verified Complaint. As to Defendant Trustees' assertion regarding the literature review claim (Motion to Dismiss, Section G, page 12), Defendants' literature review policy facilitated this abusive situation by preventing shareholders from communicating with other shareholders. This policy is in violation of U.S. law: "[t]he statutory right accorded a stockholder to communicate with other shareholders regarding matters of common interest as stockholders is much similar to freedom of speech." The fundamental position occupied this right can be seen by the frequency by which shareholders use it to justify their requests to inspect corporate books and records. In addition to enabling and facilitating the jeopardization of reasonable expectations of minority shareholders, this policy also in and of itself constitutes oppressive behavior. WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiff requests that this Court DENY Defendant Trustee's Motion to Dismiss. Respectfully submitted, Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) I hereby certify that a true and correct copy of the foregoing was mailed to: Deborah D. Wells on this ____ day of May, 2001. ____________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis ---------- From: Yorgos Marinakis[SMTP:Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:29 AM To: Frederick Glaysher Subject: Re: Response to Motion to Dismiss - NM Lawsuit Yes, this situation is blowing my mind. I am concerned about my personal safety. I will of course provide more guidance on the brief(s), and there are no filing fees involved. It is just a chance for you to tell the court your experience, without becoming a party. Your suggested subject matter sounds appropriate. They can be much longer than one or two pages. Best regards, Yorgos ----- Original Message ----- From: FG To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:03 PM Subject: Response to Motion to Dismiss - NM Lawsuit > Mr. Marinakis: > > I can't say I'm surprised. I'm sure you're learning a lot about the Bahai > Faith. > > I'd be happy to file an amicus curiae brief. I would need your guidance on > what's appropriate and would be effective, as I have no legal background. I > also cannot afford legal fees or become a party to the lawsuit. I assume > neither would be involved. I'm also assuming the "memo" would be a page or > two stating that I believe the lawsuit should go forward and be fully heard > by the court. It seems to me very few people have experience with how > widespread and systematic the tactics are that surface in your lawsuit. I > can comment along those lines, if you wish, in good conscience. > > Juan Cole might be going through some personal internal struggles. I'm not > sure what is the best way to approach him. Let me suggest you email him > directly. If he declines, let me know and then I'll talk with him, in > person, if necessary: jrcole@umich.edu > > Best wishes, > > Frederick Glaysher > 668 Bolinger > Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 USA > 248-651-3380 > www.fglaysher.com > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > >From: "Yorgos Marinakis" > >To: "Frederick Glaysher" > >Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:21:50 -0600 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Received: from [216.146.128.221] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id > >MHotMailBCD53ACA0096400438EAD89280DD05D50; Wed May 23 10:13:47 2001 > >Received: (qmail 5310 invoked from network); 23 May 2001 17:12:43 -0000 > >Received: from 1cust51.tnt6.albuquerque.nm.da.uu.net (HELO oemcomputer) > >(63.24.171.51) by smtp.bwn.net with SMTP; 23 May 2001 17:12:43 -0000 > >From Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net Wed May 23 10:14:19 2001 > >Message-ID: <001401c0e3ac$df2b2280$33ab183f@oemcomputer> > >X-Priority: 3 > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 > >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > > > >Dear Fred, > > > >The LSA filed a motion to dismiss the Complaint for failure to state a > >claim upon which relief can be granted. It was entirely bogus. I have > >attached my response. > > > >The NSA has ignored the summons that I mailed, so they will be personally > >served next week in Illinois. > > > >We are putting up a website. I'll keep you posted. > > > >Thanks again for your support. I'm thinking that you and Juan might want > >to put together an Amicus Curiae brief to submit to the court. Any > >interested party is allowed to submit a memo to the court as a "friend of > >the court." > > > >Best regards, > > > >Yorgos Marinakis, Ph.D. > >Attorney-at-law, MA # 645664, NM# 10078 > >P.O. Box 45923 > >Rio Rancho, NM 87174-5923 > >505-459-4664 (cell) > >877-430-9550 (toll-free fax) > >Yorgos.Marinakis@abanet.org > ><< Plaintiff_sResponsetoDefendantLSA_sMotiontoDismiss.doc >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 2:43 PM Subject: Re: Darrick declared a Covenant-Breaker? FACT is non-bahais and ex-bahais have been declared covenant breakers. I believe Juan Cole discusses cases in New Zealand on my website somewhere. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Saman Ahmadi" wrote in message news:3B0D3D7D.C2E3C542@worldnet.att.net... > Only the Universal House of Justice can declare someone a > Covenant-Breaker. An NSA can remove the administrative rights > of a Baha'i for violation(s) of Baha'i Law. > > Of course, in all likelihood, the UHJ will consult the members of > the Continental Board of Counsellors and/or the NSA of a country > when deciding whether or not a Baha'i has broken the Covenant. > > What would be the status of a person who never declared himself > to be a Baha'i but decided to follow a Covenant-Breaker? I don't > know - I'm sure the question has been asked and hopefully someone > here has the answer. > > -saman > > > Randy Burns wrote: > > > Dean > > > > What you said might make sense, except that it is well known that Darrick is > > a former Baha'i and therefore could be declared a Covenant Breaker at any > > time by the UHJ or the American NSA even though he has left the faith many > > years ago. What could prevent either of these two bodies from taking this > > action if they desired to? > > > > Cheers, Randy > > > > -- > > > > Dean Martineau wrote in message > > news:LyXO6.15001$9D5.1291836@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > > Unfortunately, individual believers can tend to be immature and less > > > informed than they need to be. There is no way that Derek can be a > > > Covenant-breaker, since, as a non-member of the Baha'i Faith, he is not a > > > party to the Covenant. YOu can't break what you haven't agreed to abide > > by. > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:57 PM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? Ad hominem. No substance. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Javan Barzakhi" wrote in message news:p5iP6.102$S55.8299@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > Even if what you say if true then these people fail the test. You say you > believe Baha'u'llah. You sure are familiar with the concept. > > My understanding is that religion is not meant to be a democracy. Forgive me > for making it sound so simple, but It is dictatorship and the dictator is > God, and you are to follow it to the dot because of your love for the Words > of God. > > Any how your reply is just a repeat of your empty claims and repeat > yourself, then suit yourself. > > You are not worthy of holding a proper discussion. > > "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" > wrote in message news:9edejr$28gmu$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > The latest victim is Deborah Buckhorn. Her story may be read at > > New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 > > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm > > > > The many other victims of bahai fundamentalists include Indiana University > > Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors > of > > Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, > > David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the > > University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former > > Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for > writing > > a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and most recently > Australian > > Olympic champion Cathy Freeman.... > > > > David Horowitz's observations in his book Radical Son apply equally well > to > > bahai fundamentalism: "I, too, had to face the savage personal attacks by > my > > former comrades that were designed to warn others to remain within the > > fold" (2). > > > > I urge the perceptive reader seeking to understand the bahai faith to > > consider the experience and views of the bahais and ex-bahais mentioned > > above. Many of their testimonies may be found on my bahai webpage below. > > > > Since bahai fundamentalists have always relied on their ability to operate > > one way in one country and another elsewhere and the Internet now no > > longer makes it possible, they have mounted a concerted campaign on > > Usenet to discredit and malign diverse voices. > > > > Their slandering me for "spamming" won't prevent perceptive people who > > even glance at the record from realizing what's really going on in their > > desperate attempt to prevent people in Israel, Iran, and elsewhere from > > knowing what is actually taking place in bahai cirlces around the world. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > www.fglaysher.com > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > > "Javan Barzakhi" wrote in message > > news:HekO6.64$Df4.9880@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > > > "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" > > > wrote in message news:9ebisf$240qe$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > > > The FACT is that the uhj EXERCISES **interpretive** power > > > > all the time, when it should not be doing so as stated by the > > > > clear and explicit statements of the central figures of the faith. > > > > That the uhj LIES and claims it isn't interpreting, when it obviously > > > > is, does not change the FACT. > > > > > > This is an empty claim. Claims are easy to make, when not backed up with > a > > > proofs. Nothing is a fact untill is proven. Prove it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:27 PM Subject: Re: A`eene Jahani Baha'i Two excellent introductions to the bahai faith in English: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "John Bahmardi" wrote in message news:BHiP6.30575$BN6.1583808@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > Dear friends, > > I would like to invite you to visit the following site:- > > A`eene Jahani Baha'i (An introduction on the Baha'i Faith): > This is a site on the Baha'i Faith (Religion) in the Persian language aiming > at providing an introduction on the fundamentals of the Baha'i Faith. > https://www.bahai.com/persian > > Thank you very much. > John > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Selections from the Baha'i writings See FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm "friend" wrote in message news:7LbP6.3688$gg2.39010@news1.mts.net... > The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Bahá'u'lláh, implies the > establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds > and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of > its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals > that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded. This > commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world > legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, > ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and > will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the > needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples. A world > executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions > arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will > safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. A world tribunal will > adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any > disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this > universal system. A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, > embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, > and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity ( 1). A > world metropolis will act as the nerve center of a world civilization, the > focus towards which the unifying forces of life will converge and from which > its energizing influences will radiate. A world language will either be > invented or chosen from among the existing languages and will be taught in > the schools of all the federated nations as an auxiliary to their mother > tongue. A world script, a world literature, a uniform and universal system > of currency, of weights and measures, will simplify and facilitate > intercourse and understanding among the nations and races of mankind. In > such a world society, > > > > > > science and religion, the two most potent forces in human life, will be > reconciled, will cöoperate, and will harmoniously develop. The press will, > under such a system, while giving full scope to the expression of the > diversified views and convictions of mankind, cease to be mischievously > manipulated by vested interests, whether private or public, and will be > liberated from the influence of contending governments and peoples. The > economic resources of the world will be organized, its sources of raw > materials will be tapped and fully utilized, its markets will be cöordinated > and developed, and the distribution of its products will be equitably > regulated. > > > > National rivalries, hatreds, and intrigues will cease, and racial animosity > and prejudice will be replaced by racial amity, understanding and > cöoperation. The causes of religious strife will be permanently removed, > economic barriers and restrictions will be completely abolished, and the > inordinate distinction between classes will be obliterated. Destitution on > the one hand, and gross accumulation of ownership on the other, will > disappear. The enormous energy dissipated and wasted on war, whether > economic or political, will be consecrated to such ends as will extend the > range of human inventions and technical development, to the increase of the > productivity of mankind, to the extermination of disease, to the extension > of scientific research, to the raising of the standard of physical health, > to the sharpening and refinement of the human brain, to the exploitation of > the unused and unsuspected resources of the planet, to the prolongation of > human life, and to the furtherance of any other agency that can stimulate > the intellectual, the moral, and spiritual life of the entire human race. > > > > -- Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Bahá'u'lláh > > (1) referring to internet ? > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 7:07 AM Subject: Re: Bahai hypocrisy: No clergy, what about the "uhj"? The best example of backbiting I know of: ---- 3 August 1999 From: Department of the Secretariat Baha'i World Center Dear Baha'i Friend, Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern . . . As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own" . . . The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) . . . With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat "Javan Barzakhi" wrote in message news:LOiP6.116$S55.9505@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > To me bonyan-garaa/fundamentalist would be people who would believe > Baha'u'llah and nothing else. With my limited knowledge of Arabic, mortaje > would be the one who would refer to the basics the fundamentals so the same > applies as the above. > > Now as for mote'aseb, every religion has it. Would you call the ones who > didn't recant their Faith and accepted martyrdom mote'aseb? Or are you > talking about people who are prejudiced? > > I didn't saying Baha'is are perfect. Actually it is very difficult to be a > Baha'i. You naturally you would be more faults in Baha'is than any others. I > personally think the only perfect Baha'i who ever lived was Abdul'Baha. > Based on that I accept that Baha'is are not perfect. But you can't just turn > against the whole administration order of the Baha'i Faith, as Frederick > does, to remedy the problem. How is Frederick's (provided he is a registered > Baha'i as he claims that he is) actions going to solve the problem? > > For argument's sake lets say there is something wrong within the Faith. You > can't simply get on your soap box and complain to everyone and backbite and > gossip and make big issues of every little thing! How is that going to fix > the problem. For a Baha'i you would be missing the whole point of the > teachings of Baha'u'llah! You would be dealing with the problem using the > old world order techniques, the way politicians behave etc. The foundation > of Baha'i Faith is based on loving one and another. No problem will be > resolved without understanding and practising this. The new world order is > based on love. Not seeing others faults but seeing what they do best. This > is why Baha'is are not supposed to gossip. Frederick's actions certainly > don't fall within the Baha'i teaching. He can call himself a Baha'i and > claim he is believes in Baha'u'llah's teaching, but certainly doesn't act > that way. > > Frederick prides him self in complaining constantly about UHJ and the fact > that he is still a registered Baha'i. He goes on to say, "The reason the uhj > allows and encourages fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to backbite and > slander me..." He certainly flatters himself to think that UHJ has nothing > better to do to have a secret agenda against him. His statement is as though > he says the reason God or even Baha'u'llah allows and encourages... He > certainly gives himself too much credit to imply UHJ is after him. I bet he > is quite surprised that he hasn't been expelled for criticising UHJ > (provided what he says is true - I am yet to see proofs). > > As for my name, it is not relevant to the discussions here. We are not in a > court of law to reveal all particulars about our lives and identities. For > all you know I might not even be a Baha'i. I have not claimed to be a > Baha'i. My name doesn't change what I say. It doesn't add any weight to my > arguments or make them any less worthy. > > Regards, > Javan. > > "Nima Hazini" wrote in message > news:9eckr4$i9e$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > > > > "Javan Barzakhi" wrote in message > > news:HekO6.63$Df4.9880@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > > Frederick, > > > > > What is this fundamentalist baha'i business. > > > > Someone who is khar mote'aseb and a mortaje' in his/her religious views is > > certifiably a bonyan-garaa/fundamentalist whether they be a Muslim, > > Christian, Baha'i, Jew or whatever. Just as there are Islamic hezbollahis, > > unfortunately there are also Baha'i hezbollahis. > > > > Btw, just as 'Delram Mashhuri' is not a real name neither does 'Javan > > Barzakhi' strike me as a real ism. > > > > salaamat baashid, > > Nima > > > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 7:22 AM Subject: Re: bahai - LAWSUIT - *** Response to Motion to Dismiss **** NEW By incorporating in the United States, Defendant Trustees agreed to follow the law of the land, but it is clear from their Motion to Dismiss that they believe the law of the land places them above the law. - Following the law of the land certainly sounds reasonable to me. Unfortunately the fundamentalists who have traduced Baha'u'llah's revelation do indeed believe they are above US law and that of any other nation for that matter.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" wrote in message news:tgps052llbneac@corp.supernews.com... > In addition to below, be sure to see the original FULL TEXT of the > New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > > SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT > COUNTY OF BERNALILLO > STATE OF NEW MEXICO > > DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) > and for MINORITY SHAREHOLDER- ) > MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) > ASSEMBLY OF THE BAH ' 'S OF ) > ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) > ) > Plaintiffs, ) > ) > vs. ) No. CV 2001-01978 > ) > ) > TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ) > ASSEMBLY OF THE BAH ' S OF ) > ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and ) > THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE ) > BAH ' 'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, ) > NEW MEXICO, a non-profit ) > corporation, and the ) > NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY ) > OF THE BAH ' 'S OF THE ) > UNITED STATES, ) > an Illinois Corporation, ) > ) > Defendants. ) > > PLAINTIFF'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT TRUSTEES MOTION TO DISMISS > > COME NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record > Yorgos Marinakis and for their response state as follows: > > INTRODUCTION > > By incorporating in the United States, Defendant > Trustees agreed to follow the law of the land, but it is > clear from their Motion to Dismiss that they believe the law > of the land places them above the law. If the Bahá'í wish > to undertake such civil jurisdiction over their members, > they must provide due process, which they have failed to > provide for seven years. > > ALLEGED FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES > > There are simply and categorically no first amendment > issues in this case. Churches are not immune from suit over > issues that do not involve religious doctrines: > > "[w]ithout regard to the governing structure of a > particular church, a court may, where appropriate, > apply neutral principles of law to determine disputed > questions that do not implicate religious doctrine. > Jones v. Wolf, supra, 443 U.S. 595, 99 S.Ct. 3020, 61 > L.Ed.2d 775. 'Neutral principles' are wholly secular > legal rules whose application to religious parties or > disputes does not entail theological or doctrinal > evaluations." > > It will be shown below that these "neutral principles" are > well-established for religious nonprofit corporations. As a > general rule, Courts can decide secular legal questions in > cases involving some background issues of religious > doctrine, so long as courts do not intrude into > determination of doctrinal issues. When the canons of > Bahá'í law are in conflict with the law of the land, the > canons must yield. > Defendant Trustees implicitly assert (Motion to > Dismiss, page 9) that this Court cannot hear this case > because it involves an intangible or emotional harm to an > individual committed by a church. In fact, this case > involves violations of New Mexico State corporate law and > U.S. corporate common law, not simply offenses to someone's > sensibilities. Counts III-V allege violations of statutory > duties of corporate officers, Counts VI and VII allege > specific violations of filed corporate by-laws, and Counts > VIII and IX allege violations of U.S. corporate common law. > Count I alleges fraud and Count II alleges libel, not as > individual harms but as torts by a corporation upon a > minority set of member-shareholders. > Defendant Trustees assert (Defendant's Motion, Section > B) that their actions are protected by the first amendment > as "ecclesiastical" or "internal," simply because they are a > religious entity. If that were the rule, then the Catholic > Church could have claimed that a priest's decision to commit > pederasty was an ecclesiastical decision and therefore not a > civil matter. > Plaintiffs in actuality allege that Defendant Trustees > oppressed and abused minority shareholder-member Plaintiffs, > while Defendants National Spiritual Assembly failed to act > upon Plaintiffs' appeals. This is simply a case of fraud > and oppression on the shareholders, committed by corporate > officers, which cases State Courts decide every day. The > fact that the corporation is a non-profit religious society > is irrelevant, because there are no background issues of > religious doctrine in this case. I will now justify that > statement. > One of the allegations relates to the failure to allow > inspection of the corporate books. New Mexico law of non- > profit corporations clearly states that corporations must > allow its members to inspect all their books and records: > > "All books and records of a corporation may be > inspected by any member, or his agent or attorney, for > any proper purpose at any reasonable time." > > In denying shareholders access to corporate books and > records, the corporation has the burden to demonstrate > strong and articulable reasons for denying that access, such > as improper purpose. Defendant Trustees denied Plaintiff > Buchhorn access to their books and failed to demonstrate > strong and articulable reasons for doing so, having merely > informed Defendant Buchhorn that they needed the guidance of > the National Spiritual Assembly. Because the right to > inspect books and records by members was a right at common > law, Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and knew or > should have known that this action by Defendant Trustees > violated the law. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's > purpose was proper: the "draft" Annual Report showed an > admitted 10% discrepancy in the books, and she wanted to > investigate it. > As another example, Counts III-V allege breach of > duties of corporate officers and directors. New Mexico non- > profit corporation law clearly states the duties of > directors: > > "A director shall perform his duties as a director > including his duties as a member of any committee of > the board upon which the director may serve, in good > faith, in a manner the director believes to be in or > not opposed to the best interests of the corporation > and with such care as an ordinary prudent person would > use under similar circumstances in a like position." > > These are the same duties set forth in section 8.30 of the > ABA Model Nonprofit Corporation Act (herein "Model Act"). > These are the "neutral principles" discussed above in the > first excerpt. According to that same Model Act, > nondirector officers with discretionary authority have the > same general duty of care and loyalty as directors. As > delegates of the board of directors, officers are > fiduciaries of the corporation and within the scope of their > delegated management functions are subject to the same > fiduciary duties as are directors. > According to the Model Act, to determine whether a > director or officer discharged the duty of good faith, the > Court must > "look to the director's state of mind to see if it > evidenced honesty and faithfulness to the director's > duties and obligations, or whether there was an intent > to take advantage of the corporation. A director of a > religious corporation in making a good faith > determination may consider what the director believes > to be: (1) the religious purpose of the corporation; > and (2) applicable religious tenets, canons, laws, > policies and authority." (emphasis added) > > This clearly implies that the Model Act applies to religious > corporations. Case law also permits the Court examine the > religious purposes or applicable religious laws: > > "Civil courts adjudicate ecclesiastical matters only > when civil or property rights are involved, and then > only when their determination is necessary and incident > to the adjudication of civil or property rights The > courts will inquire only as to what are the rules and > decisions of the church and its tribunals, and what > parties or factions adhere to them, without questioning > their wisdom or propriety[.]" > > There is, however, no need for the Court in this case to > examine the religious purpose of the corporation. Defendant > Trustees acted in a manner that would qualify as domestic > violence. These actions are so far opposed to the true interests of > the corporation as to lead to the clear inference that no one thus > acting could have been influenced by any honest desire to secure > such interests, but that they must have acted with intent to > subserve some ulterior purpose, regardless of the consequences to > the corporation and in a manner inconsistent with its interests. > Even if this Court finds that the issues in this case involve > religious doctrine, it may still hear this case, because decisions by > religious entities may be the subject of civil inquiry in cases of > alleged fraud: > "a civil court might be empowered to examine the > propriety of such an appointment [i.e., the ecclesiastical decision > of appointment to a Roman Catholic chaplaincy] if it were a > product of 'fraud, collusion, or arbitrariness.'" > > This is precisely thesituation in the instant case. Defendant Trustees > have made numerous decisions that Plaintiff alleges were the product of > fraud. > Moreover, even if this Court finds that the issues in this case > are purely ecclesiastical, it may still hear the case, because they > may pose a substantial threat to public safety, peace and order: > > "The courts may not intervene in purely ecclesiastical > matters, including church disciplinary actions concerning the > conformity of church members to the standards of morals > required of them, unless such actions pose a substantial threat > to public safety, peace or order. Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 > U.S. 205, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972); Sherbert v. > Verner, 374 U.S. 398, 83 S.Ct. 1790, 10 L.Ed.2d 965 (1963); > Paul v. Watchtower of New York, Inc., 819 F.2d 875 (9th Cir. > 1987), cert denied, _____U.S.____, 108 S.Ct. 289, 98 L.Ed.2d > 249 (1987)." > > The Bahá'í are the world's second-most widespread religion. > Spiritual Assemblies, similar to Defendant, are located in cities > across the United States. Widespread abusive and oppressive > behavior by these entities is plausible and may represent a > substantial threat to public safety, peace or order. > Defendant Trustees claim that Plaintiffs' membership in the > Bahá'í Faith constitutes implied consent to their government, > which confers upon Defendant Trustees' decisions an internal > nature deserving of judicial deference (Motion to Dismiss, page > 6). However, this situation invites abuse if the Local Spiritual > Assembly fails to follow its own commitment to the laws, which > Plaintiff alleges they have done here. As discussed above, this > Court has the power to determine whether the Bahá'í have > followed civil and their own religious law. > Defendant Trustees implicitly asserts "'religious questions > permeate all of the issues in this case.'" The Supreme Court of > New Jersey responded to such an allegation by stating that it was > the Court's duty not to refer civil issues to a religious tribunal, but > to hear them: > > "To the contrary, as we have noted, distinct civil issues > should have been reserved by the court not merely because it had > the discretion to decide them, but also because it had a duty to do > so." > > Plaintiff suggests that if this Court is concerned with the first > amendment issues that it follows the recommendations of the > Supreme Court of New Jersey, and order the parties to fully brief > which issues are religious and which are civil: > > "It is imperative, in order to avoid unconstitutional > entanglements of civil and religious issues and to preserve the > right to civil adjudication of secular disputes, for a trial court to > specify which issues are religious and therefore to be settled by > religious authority; and which issues are civil and to be resolved > by the court Thus, when faced with cases such as this, trial courts > initially should entertain full briefing and argument by the parties > as to what issues are 'religious' and what are 'civil'; and as to what > is the proper authority to decide 'religious' questions. By > providing complete and clear rulings on such questions before > referral to any religious tribunal, a trial court will provide the > parties and appellate courts with a clear record for informed > review of any possible first amendment issues." > > ALLEGED PLEADING ISSUES > > Plaintiffs' Complaint has complied with the New Mexico > law of notice pleading, shareholder derivative suit pleading, and > fraud pleading. In New Mexico, the theory of pleadings is to give > the parties fair notice of the claims and defenses against them, and > the grounds upon which they are based. > Notice pleading requires only sufficient detail so that the parties > and the court will have a fair idea of the action about which the > party is complaining and can see the basis for relief. > In a shareholder derivative action specifically, the complaint > must be verified, the plaintiff must allege that she was a > shareholder or member at the time of the transaction in question, > and the plaintiff must allege with particularity the efforts she > made to obtain the action she desires from the corporation. In > Complaints for fraud, the plaintiff must allege the circumstances > constituting fraud with particularity. > > Plaintiffs complied with all these requirements. The > Complaint contains numerous specific incidents and factual > allegations that involve more than named Plaintiff. Named > Plaintiff verified the Complaint. There is no requirement to name > all minority shareholders as Defendant Trustees claims. More > specifically, as to Defendant Trustees' assertion regarding the > libel claim (Motion to Dismiss, Section F, page 11), Plaintiff > refers Your Honor to paragraph 31 of the verified Complaint. As > to Defendant Trustees' assertion regarding the literature review > claim (Motion to Dismiss, Section G, page 12), Defendants' > literature review policy facilitated this abusive situation by > preventing shareholders from communicating with other > shareholders. This policy is in violation of U.S. law: > > "[t]he statutory right accorded a stockholder to communicate with > other shareholders regarding matters of common interest as > stockholders is much similar to freedom of speech." > > The fundamental position occupied this right can be seen by > the frequency by which shareholders use it to justify their requests > to inspect corporate books and records. In addition to enabling > and facilitating the jeopardization of reasonable expectations of > minority shareholders, this policy also in and of itself constitutes > oppressive behavior. > > WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiff requests that > this Court DENY Defendant Trustee's Motion to Dismiss. > > > Respectfully submitted, > > Yorgos D. Marinakis > Attorney for Plaintiffs > P.O. Box 45923 > Rio Rancho, NM 87174 > 505-459-4664 > 877-430-9550 (fax) > I hereby certify that a true > and correct copy of the foregoing > was mailed to: > Deborah D. Wells > on this ____ day of May, 2001. > ____________________ > Yorgos D. Marinakis > > > > ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 12:44 PM To: Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Response to Motion to Dismiss - NM Lawsuit Yorgos, You're wise to be careful. There have been many more threats against me than I have acknowledged online, wishing not to encourage it, if you're familiar with any of that. Sometimes for months on end I've received three to five or more calls a day, some with wild jungle animals growlingly and so on. I did file a complaint once with the police. I still feel uneasy about the murder of Dr. Daniel Jordan and, given the overall behaviour of the bahai administrative order, can't rule out their complicity. On several occasions too I've had bahais, I believe, sitting outside my house craning their necks to see in. My email and ISP accounts have been attacked or flooded with several hundred messages a day on a number of occasions. I've learnt the hard way that ISPs are not resistance to floods of complaints claiming abuse of their TOS rules and so on. AOL has long been manipulated and censored by the various bahais who have had control of the bahai related pages and kick dissenters off on pretexts. There's a possibility I suppose that the Iranians who moved in next door about a year ago are bahais and who apparently are using the same cable ISP box now that I do.... In addition to my address and phone number being posted online many, many times in threatening terms, my wife and children have also been mentioned or alluded to repeatedly. I have taken many precautions and continue to do so. Don't be too worried, but don't be naive. Things have happened in the past and then the administration distances itself from the individuals as "unbalanced" and acting on their own. All of the above and more are the methods by which dissenters are driven out and silenced. It works eventually with most people, and so they continue along.... All that may sound paranoid to people unfamiliar with the record. I trust you now know otherwise. Let me know the date by which you need to receive a brief. Would three to five pages be more useful? I'd be happy to write any length you think best. Just let me know ASAP so that I can begin to gather my thoughts. Best wishes, Fred Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm >From: "Yorgos Marinakis" >To: "Frederick Glaysher" >Subject: Re: Response to Motion to Dismiss - NM Lawsuit >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:29:05 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.146.128.221] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCD67FEA009D400437ACD89280DD071E0; Thu May 24 09:20:58 2001 >Received: (qmail 19710 invoked from network); 24 May 2001 16:20:08 -0000 >Received: from 1cust221.tnt5.albuquerque.nm.da.uu.net (HELO oemcomputer) >(63.21.3.221) by smtp.bwn.net with SMTP; 24 May 2001 16:20:08 -0000 >From Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net Thu May 24 09:22:46 2001 >Message-ID: <003701c0e46e$b0833c20$dd03153f@oemcomputer> >References: >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > >Yes, this situation is blowing my mind. I am concerned about my personal >safety. >I will of course provide more guidance on the brief(s), and there are no >filing fees involved. It is just a chance for you to tell the court your >experience, without becoming a party. Your suggested subject matter sounds >appropriate. They can be much longer than one or two pages. >Best regards, >Yorgos > >----- Original Message ----- >From: FG >To: >Cc: >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:03 PM >Subject: Response to Motion to Dismiss - NM Lawsuit > > > > Mr. Marinakis: > > > > I can't say I'm surprised. I'm sure you're learning a lot about the >Bahai > > Faith. > > > > I'd be happy to file an amicus curiae brief. I would need your guidance >on > > what's appropriate and would be effective, as I have no legal >background. >I > > also cannot afford legal fees or become a party to the lawsuit. I assume > > neither would be involved. I'm also assuming the "memo" would be a page >or > > two stating that I believe the lawsuit should go forward and be fully >heard > > by the court. It seems to me very few people have experience with how > > widespread and systematic the tactics are that surface in your lawsuit. >I > > can comment along those lines, if you wish, in good conscience. > > > > Juan Cole might be going through some personal internal struggles. I'm >not > > sure what is the best way to approach him. Let me suggest you email him > > directly. If he declines, let me know and then I'll talk with him, in > > person, if necessary: jrcole@umich.edu > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Frederick Glaysher > > 668 Bolinger > > Rochester Hills, Michigan 48307 USA > > 248-651-3380 > > www.fglaysher.com > > > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > > > > >From: "Yorgos Marinakis" > > >To: "Frederick Glaysher" > > >Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:21:50 -0600 > > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > > >Received: from [216.146.128.221] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id > > >MHotMailBCD53ACA0096400438EAD89280DD05D50; Wed May 23 10:13:47 2001 > > >Received: (qmail 5310 invoked from network); 23 May 2001 17:12:43 -0000 > > >Received: from 1cust51.tnt6.albuquerque.nm.da.uu.net (HELO oemcomputer) > > >(63.24.171.51) by smtp.bwn.net with SMTP; 23 May 2001 17:12:43 -0000 > > >From Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net Wed May 23 10:14:19 2001 > > >Message-ID: <001401c0e3ac$df2b2280$33ab183f@oemcomputer> > > >X-Priority: 3 > > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 > > >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 > > > > > >Dear Fred, > > > > > >The LSA filed a motion to dismiss the Complaint for failure to state a > > >claim upon which relief can be granted. It was entirely bogus. I have > > >attached my response. > > > > > >The NSA has ignored the summons that I mailed, so they will be >personally > > >served next week in Illinois. > > > > > >We are putting up a website. I'll keep you posted. > > > > > >Thanks again for your support. I'm thinking that you and Juan might >want > > >to put together an Amicus Curiae brief to submit to the court. Any > > >interested party is allowed to submit a memo to the court as a "friend >of > > >the court." > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >Yorgos Marinakis, Ph.D. > > >Attorney-at-law, MA # 645664, NM# 10078 > > >P.O. Box 45923 > > >Rio Rancho, NM 87174-5923 > > >505-459-4664 (cell) > > >877-430-9550 (toll-free fax) > > >Yorgos.Marinakis@abanet.org > > ><< Plaintiff_sResponsetoDefendantLSA_sMotiontoDismiss.doc >> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 3:45 PM Subject: talisman archives - Re: Ahmadi, Hazini and an Old Bone Read the talisman files for yourself: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/tarc1196.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Saman Ahmadi" wrote in message news:3B0E9B21.5E22296E@worldnet.att.net... > > > Nima Hazini wrote: > > > "Saman Ahmadi" wrote in message > > news:3B0E460A.48049D02@worldnet.att.net... > > > > >There was, of course, a broader context - that is > > >obvious to anyone reading the Talisman posts. > > > > BS > > The context was direct opposition of the teachings of > the Faith (based on the writings of Abdul Baha) on the > issue of women on the Universal House of Justice, and > direct opposition of the teachings of the Faith (based on the > writings > of Shoghi Effendi and letters on his behalf) on the issue > of homosexuality - a point which you felt was against the > scheme of things since everything is in pairs but on which > you are now neutral. > > The Universal House of Justice's refusal to interpret the > Writings to accommodate these views was dismissed over > and over again with irreverence . The majnun post was > a summation of how to approach the acceptance of > individual interpretations by a systematic and concerted > effort. > > The argument that the post was misunderstood, may be > due to the style of writer and use of historical metaphors - > the same apology, by the way, which some have made > regarding the Baha'i-authored Modest Proposal - is > difficult to understand. Surely, professional authors are > aware of the connotations of their written words - the > Regan Syndrome of "ozr bad tar az gonAh"; knowing that a > missile > could not be recalled and lying versus not knowing that > a missile could be recalled and saying so is apropos. > > The third issue was pre-publication review, which, with the > advent of the internet, was, for all practical purpose, > beginning > to be phased out - a fact to which Talisman was a witness. > Some of those days will remain the most intellectually > stimulating > time of my life. > > > > > >har chi mikhad bashid bashid > > > > shomaa-ham dar khaab-e gheflat bemanid > > As Juan might chime in, that all depends on your standpoint > epistemology, but, like I said, it's none of my busineess how > long you want to stay awake or if you never go to sleep again. > > -saman > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:42 AM Subject: Re: bahai - LAWSUIT - *** Response to Motion to Dismiss **** NEW In addition to below, be sure to see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm ------------------------------------------------------ My crossposts to soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.iranian, and talk.religion.misc are entirely within the acceptable parameters for crossposting to newsgroups related to the subject at hand: The bahai faith *began* in Iran in 1844, the major bahai religious sites and institutions are *located* in *Israel*, *all* religions may join discussion on talk.religion.misc. The unsuspecting public ought to be informed and have the opportunity to judge and decide the facts for itself. It should be evident to any intelligent person that bahai fundamentalists have a hidden agenda and their self-interest in mind when they malign me and many, many other people on talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai, AOL, and elsewhere. Since fundamentalists among my fellow bahais have always relied on their ability to operate one way in one country and another elsewhere and the Internet now no longer makes that possible, as dramatically demonstrated with the former USSR and China, the universal house of "justice," like other totalitarian regimes, will have to confront and answer for the consequences of their own hypocrisy. Their slandering me for "spamming" also won't prevent perceptive people from realizing what's really going on.... Those interested in judging independently for themselves my background and whether I'm "unbalanced," as bahai fundamentalist struggle to portray me, may do so by reading my Biographical Note: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm I believe it is my duty, bahai and otherwise, to inform my fellow citizens, local and global, of the appalling and incessant hypocrisy that lies behind the deceptive, progressive facade that the uhj so often fobs off on the unsuspecting public.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Pat Kohli" wrote in message news:3B0EC8E0.94D8D99F@ameritel.net... > Allahu Abha! > > BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing wrote: > > > By incorporating in the United States, Defendant > > Trustees agreed to follow the law of the land, but it is > > clear from their Motion to Dismiss that they believe the law > > of the land places them above the law. > > > > - > > > > Following the law of the land certainly sounds reasonable to me. > > Unfortunately the fundamentalists who have traduced Baha'u'llah's revelation > > do indeed believe they are above US law and that of any other nation for > > that matter.... > > Ah yes, the boor on a mission. Some will violate the rules they proposed > themselves! > > The following is from the TRB charter, which Fred Glaysher was a proponent of: > > "Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this > newsgroup." > "Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers are > encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive cross-posting." > > Fred, if you are going to post on usenet, follow the rules of usenet. Stop the > regurgiposting and cross-posting. The lawsuit about the community in New Mexico > has no relevance in Iran or Israel. > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:43 AM To: LDRSLFSTJerry@aol.com; LDRSLFSTMgr@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Abuse of TOS rules by bahai community leader Please register a TOS against SunniDaVar It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. fglaysher glayshf@aol.com -- Subject: Baha'is Open Terraces on Mt. Carmel Date: 5/26/2001 12:05 PM Central Daylight Time From: SunniDaVar Message-id: <20010526130516.18137.00001415@ng-cj1.aol.com> Peace & Unity of the World Are Inevitable' For more information on this report or to preview the video go to: https://www.prnewswire.com/broadcast/5009/5009-consumer.html NEW YORK, May 23 /PRNewswire/ -- Members of the Baha'i Faith from the United States and more than 180 other countries, along with their guests, celebrated the inauguration of a majestic series of garden terraces on the face of Mt. Carmel, Israel. Following an emotionally powerful concert, culminating in the spectacular lighting of the terraces at dusk, more than 3,000 Baha'is ascended the mountain. For Baha'is and others around the world who watched via satellite and internet webcast, it was a momentous event, marking the completion of a complex of buildings and gardens on what throughout history has been called "the Mountain of the Lord". For one of the United States representatives, Dr. Jean Scales, the experience was profound. "The construction of these gardens is a reason for humanity to have hope. So many people don't see any hope in the world today, between wars and rumors of wars. But this shows that humankind can come together." In this strife-torn region, these terraces and gardens -- open to the public -- provide a haven of calm and spirituality. The Universal House of Justice, the Baha'i Faith's international governing body, presented a statement during the dedication. Proclaiming that the human race can live harmoniously, in all its diversity, the Universal House of Justice offered this vision of the future: "That our earth is contracted into a neighborhood, no one can seriously deny. The world is being made new. Death pangs are yielding to birth pangs. The pain shall pass when members of the human race act upon the common recognition of their essential oneness." The statement concluded with this prediction, "... the unity and peace of the world are not only possible but inevitable. Their time has come." ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:45 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: TOS Please register a TOS against SunniDaVar It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. fglaysher glayshf@aol.com -- Subject: Baha'is Open Terraces on Mt. Carmel Date: 5/26/2001 12:05 PM Central Daylight Time From: SunniDaVar Message-id: <20010526130516.18137.00001415@ng-cj1.aol.com> Peace & Unity of the World Are Inevitable' For more information on this report or to preview the video go to: https://www.prnewswire.com/broadcast/5009/5009-consumer.html NEW YORK, May 23 /PRNewswire/ -- Members of the Baha'i Faith from the United States and more than 180 other countries, along with their guests, celebrated the inauguration of a majestic series of garden terraces on the face of Mt. Carmel, Israel. Following an emotionally powerful concert, culminating in the spectacular lighting of the terraces at dusk, more than 3,000 Baha'is ascended the mountain. For Baha'is and others around the world who watched via satellite and internet webcast, it was a momentous event, marking the completion of a complex of buildings and gardens on what throughout history has been called "the Mountain of the Lord". For one of the United States representatives, Dr. Jean Scales, the experience was profound. "The construction of these gardens is a reason for humanity to have hope. So many people don't see any hope in the world today, between wars and rumors of wars. But this shows that humankind can come together." In this strife-torn region, these terraces and gardens -- open to the public -- provide a haven of calm and spirituality. The Universal House of Justice, the Baha'i Faith's international governing body, presented a statement during the dedication. Proclaiming that the human race can live harmoniously, in all its diversity, the Universal House of Justice offered this vision of the future: "That our earth is contracted into a neighborhood, no one can seriously deny. The world is being made new. Death pangs are yielding to birth pangs. The pain shall pass when members of the human race act upon the common recognition of their essential oneness." The statement concluded with this prediction, "... the unity and peace of the world are not only possible but inevitable. Their time has come." ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 8:54 AM Subject: bahai - LAWSUIT - Re: From the attorney I believe Mr. Marinakis below gives far too much credit to the uhj, which has definitely been intimately involved in suppressing and silencing many bahais, for at least the last several years, on the Internet and elsewhere. The problem resides ultimately at the top. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE7EkzXOqhK6kW6bNPR0000672a@hotmail.com... Re: The lawsuit against the Albuquerque LSA and the NSA Who are we and why did we file this lawsuit? There is a growing group of us Baha'i attorneys who want to return the Faith into conformity with the vision of Baha'u'llah and the directives of the Universal House of Justice. The Baha'i Faith is like a tooth with cavities that need drilling and filling --- but the patient is unwilling. To "save the tooth" we have decided to act in comformity with the UHJ, which has directed the named plaintiff to "take positive action." For those of you who doubt, I suggest that you examine: a.. the section on the role of the individual in the letter from the Universal House of Justice titled "To the Bah=E1'=EDs of the World Ridvan 153"; b.. the May 19, 1994 letter to the National Spiritual Assembly from the Universal House of Justice; and c.. Dr. Peter Kahn's taped speech on the Four-year plan. The offenses that concern me most are when LSA's behave like the KGB. They think that the role of a spiritual assembly is to control and guide, rather than to facilitate and to follow. In addition, some older male members from Iran tend not to fully understand the "two wings of a bird" concept, believing that women should be seen and not heard. Understand this: the Baha'i Faith is meant to be a grassroots, bottom-up movement, not an elitist, top-down scam. Read the writings. The named plaintiff in the Albuquerque case is a 51-year old widowed mother of two children, and a Baha'i of 30 years. Her 30-year old son has muscular dystrophy and has been unable to breathe without a respirator for 15 years. The named plaintiff has taken care of her son at her home all these years. She turned to her Faith for support and love, and instead has consistently received abuse, oppression and fraud. The NSA has consistently failed to respond in a meaningful way to her appeals, and the UHJ finally told her to "take positive action." She did, and we filed this lawsuit. I might add that the named plaintiff knows the writings better than 99.99% of the Baha'i I have met, and she dedicated any monetary awards she will receive to be used for the purpose of direct teaching. The other unnamed plaintiffs have been Baha'i on an average for 30-50 years. The LSA has recently moved to dismiss the complaint, rather than deal with their issues like grown adults. The NSA has irresponsibily chosen to ignore the summons and complaint. If your spiritual assembly behaves like the KGB, please contact me to discuss starting a similar lawsuit in your city. We are preparing these suits all over the USA. Work with us to return the Faith to conformity with the vision of Baha'u'llah and the directives of the UHJ. -Yorgos Marinakis, Ph.D., J.D. Attorney-at-law ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: Re: bahai - LAWSUIT - Re: From the attorney Let me also add that a question worth asking now is whether the entire lawsuit is a inside strategem calculated to exonerate the uhj from its responsibility for the fundamentalist fanaticism it has created. -- I believe Mr. Marinakis below gives far too much credit to the uhj, which has definitely been intimately involved in suppressing and silencing many bahais, for at least the last several years, on the Internet and elsewhere. The problem resides ultimately at the top. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE7EkzXOqhK6kW6bNPR0000672a@hotmail.com... Re: The lawsuit against the Albuquerque LSA and the NSA Who are we and why did we file this lawsuit? There is a growing group of us Baha'i attorneys who want to return the Faith into conformity with the vision of Baha'u'llah and the directives of the Universal House of Justice. The Baha'i Faith is like a tooth with cavities that need drilling and filling --- but the patient is unwilling. To "save the tooth" we have decided to act in comformity with the UHJ, which has directed the named plaintiff to "take positive action." For those of you who doubt, I suggest that you examine: a.. the section on the role of the individual in the letter from the Universal House of Justice titled "To the Bah=E1'=EDs of the World Ridvan 153"; b.. the May 19, 1994 letter to the National Spiritual Assembly from the Universal House of Justice; and c.. Dr. Peter Kahn's taped speech on the Four-year plan. The offenses that concern me most are when LSA's behave like the KGB. They think that the role of a spiritual assembly is to control and guide, rather than to facilitate and to follow. In addition, some older male members from Iran tend not to fully understand the "two wings of a bird" concept, believing that women should be seen and not heard. Understand this: the Baha'i Faith is meant to be a grassroots, bottom-up movement, not an elitist, top-down scam. Read the writings. The named plaintiff in the Albuquerque case is a 51-year old widowed mother of two children, and a Baha'i of 30 years. Her 30-year old son has muscular dystrophy and has been unable to breathe without a respirator for 15 years. The named plaintiff has taken care of her son at her home all these years. She turned to her Faith for support and love, and instead has consistently received abuse, oppression and fraud. The NSA has consistently failed to respond in a meaningful way to her appeals, and the UHJ finally told her to "take positive action." She did, and we filed this lawsuit. I might add that the named plaintiff knows the writings better than 99.99% of the Baha'i I have met, and she dedicated any monetary awards she will receive to be used for the purpose of direct teaching. The other unnamed plaintiffs have been Baha'i on an average for 30-50 years. The LSA has recently moved to dismiss the complaint, rather than deal with their issues like grown adults. The NSA has irresponsibily chosen to ignore the summons and complaint. If your spiritual assembly behaves like the KGB, please contact me to discuss starting a similar lawsuit in your city. We are preparing these suits all over the USA. Work with us to return the Faith to conformity with the vision of Baha'u'llah and the directives of the UHJ. -Yorgos Marinakis, Ph.D., J.D. Attorney-at-law ---------- From: FG[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 8:36 AM To: community@staff.beliefnet.com Subject: "fglaysher is not a Baha'i in good standing" From Rules of Conduct: "posts that malign, vilify, defame, abuse, harass, or threaten others" - I ask you to remove the thread titled "fglaysher is not a Baha'i in good standing," under Bahai Faith Challenge & Critique. It is entirely given over to ad hominem and has repeatedly been a method by which fundamentalists among my fellow bahais *malign, vilify, defame, abuse, harass" me in an attempt to discredit my views on various issues. Despite the slander of many fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, I have been a member of the bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my main bahai page. I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. I would also appreciate it if you would ask a few of the worst offenders to desist. Thank you. Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Re: bahai - LAWSUIT - Re: From the attorney I and others might appreciate it if someone would post a copy of Dr. Kahn's speech, so that we might judge the EVIDENCE for ourselves. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE301q4gmYlrLZ8e0oc00006ce6@hotmail.com... I have indeed read numerous allegations against the UHJ from persons who apparently have had very bad experiences. This is a matter that I have not yet had time to study. Time permitting, I will give it the scrutiny that it deserves. When did these incidents occur? It seems that the UHJ recently has been displaying exemplary intellect, such as Dr. Kahn's speech. You know, every court has made bad decisions. Ironically, in some of the worst cases only the dissent shows brains, and that dissenting opinion is often written by one of my least favorite judges (e.g., Rehnquist). Go figure. ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 9:21 AM Subject: bahai - Re: Unconstitutional (per UHJ Constitution) NSA By-law No surprise.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE6QVjp3b6uIU1Gj03o00006cd6@hotmail.com... As of today, the NSA has failed to even acknowledge receipt of this fax: *********************************************************** TO: Geoffrey N. Wilson, Esq. Office of Legal Affairs 1233 Central Street Evanston, IL 60201-1611 847-733-3534 (voice) 847-733-3533 (fax) April 14, 2001 RE: DEBORAH BUCHHORN ET AL. v. TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'ÍS OF ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO ET AL. Dear Mr. Wilson: My client and I were investigating the by-laws of the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies, and we found entries that apparently violate the Constitution of the Universal House of Justice. One of the unconstitutional provisions lies in Article VII Section 9 of the by-laws of the National Spiritual Assembly: "Any member of a local Bahá'í community may appeal from a decision of his Spiritual Assembly to the National Spiritual Assembly, which shall determine whether it shall take jurisdiction of the matter or leave it to the Local Spiritual Assembly for reconsideration. In the event that the National Spiritual Assembly assumes jurisdiction of the matter, its finding shall be final." (emphasis added) The other unconstitutional provision appears as an omission in the end of Article III of the by-laws of a Local Spiritual Assembly: "It [a Local Spiritual Assembly] shall, on the other hand, have the authority and right to appeal from the decision of the National Spiritual Assembly to the Universal House of Justice for review and final decision of any matter related to the Faith in.[sic]" (This provision gives the NSA the right to appeal to the UHJ, but fails to give members the right to appeal to the UHJ.). These contradict Article VIII Section 1(b) of the Constitution (by-laws) of the Universal House of Justice: "Any Bahá'í may appeal from a decision of his National Spiritual Assembly to the Universal House of Justice which shall determine whether it shall take jurisdiction of the matter or leave it within the final jurisdiction of the National Spiritual Assembly." (emphasis added) Apart from being prima facie violations of the Constitution of the UHJ, these omissions deliberately prevent access to the UHJ by members. Within a reasonable time, please inform me as to when I can expect a response to this matter from the National Spiritual Assembly. I send to you personally my warmest regards. With Bahá'í greetings, /s/ Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 9:35 AM Subject: Re: Re: From the attorney For the safety and preservation of the rights of our fellow citizens and Bahais, I wish you every success. Your approach and reasoning have always seemed most "elegant" and persuasive. Personally, from my perspective, I've always believe everything should be thrown out open to public view. Are you sure that's the way to procede in terms of a lawsuit? Is there any possibility that you might be revealing anything here that might injure your case or provide assistance to the defendants? Why did you choose not to name the uhj as a defendant? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE67YATLQEwGlyrgpf600006c99@hotmail.com... Thank you for your comments, all of you. The reason I chose a shareholder/member derivative suit is because that particular cause of action constitutes the most failsafe way to sue a religion. Religions are well-protected from lawsuit by the First Amendment of the US and most state constitutions. You typically can't sue them only for emotional injuries, absent an accompanying physical harm, though there might (MIGHT) be an exception if you allege fraud. But a shareholder/member derivative suit is their Achilles heel. Instead of an individual claiming that her sensibilities were violated, we are claiming that the LSA violated state and U.S. corporate law. I know it sounds silly to you, but to a lawyer it is elegant and matchlessly effective. It took the NSA so much by surprise that they are paralyzed. I hope they recover soon and start dealing with their responsibilities like mature adults. It doesn't matter if the corporation does not issue shares. It only matters that the plaintiff was a card-carrying member at the time of the defendant's actions. Any more questions that I can answer for you? BTW, my "offer" is limited to helping put you in touch with attorneys in your area, and sharing all my research and resources. ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:54 AM Subject: Re: Excerpts from Dr.Kahn's speech: change, individual initiative, self-motivation What is the exact date of this speech? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Has the "temporary" policy of "review" been officially abandoned? In no uncertain terms? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the individual initiative and self-movtivation of Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman and Deborah Buckhorn be recognized and welcomed? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... WILL THE DAMAGE DONE TO THESE PEOPLE BE CORRECTED, CHANGED? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the fundamentalists on the uhj resign or retire? Will "review" definitely be ENDED? Will the witchhunts be rejected at the highest level and the damage rectified? Will the fanatics who perpetrated the inquisitions be PURGED? Will an effective system of CHECK & BALANCES finally be created and implemented? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... "Let deeds, not words be your adorning." -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE46i9yzu23LiC1h1jY000070ea@hotmail.com... Here are excerpts from Dr. Kahn's speech on the four year plan. The third principle and second misconception are of the most interest. I included the rest for completeness. HERE IS YOUR LONG-AWAITED BREATH OF FRESH AIR: **************************************************************************** *** ...Dear friends, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with you this afternoon, and to speak about a subject which is of such fascination to me as the four year plan...I obviously do not speak for the UHJ, nor do my views represent necessarily those of the Institution. I speak to you as an individual believer who has, with all of us, had the opportunity to peruse this message and to try to derive insight from it... ...But as I look at it, it comes to my mind that there are three very important principles which underlie it... ...The first of those three is this, I believe that the four year plan represents to an extent not previously apparent the unconventional view of the world which we Baha'i hold...The things Iread in the Baha'i Writings indicate to me that the existence and operation of these spiritual forces is essential to an adequate understanding of the policies of government and social bodies and that the course of world events in the later part of the nineteenth century, during the whole of the twentieth centry and beyond, can only be adequately understood in terms of the operation of spiritual forces. It is this sense that I believe the Baha'i perspective of the world is not simply a little different, not simply somewhat different, not even very different, but radically different from that of the people around us...And I suggest this to be one of the basic principles underlying the four year plan. The second principle I see as basic to the four year plan is its extraordinary emphasis on processes rather than events....As Baha'i we give due weight to events...We do not deny the significance and value of events. But the principle emphasis in out religion seems to me, to be on processes rather than events...This change of orientation, this change of viewpoint, from event to process has many significant implications. It means that we must become sensitive to recognize the significance of small events. If we are to be process oriented we must become sufficiently insightful, sufficiently sensitive to recognize that some small events are most significant in terms of process... The third of the three fundamental principles which I see as underlying the four year plan is that of the concept of change. I mention this because my observation of history is that religions have a lot of problems with change. It is very difficult for a religion or a religious community or organization to handle change. Change is unsettling, change can be disruptive, change can lead to division or polarization, most often under the impact of the development of society, when a religion is subject to the stress of change, its community tends to polarize. One segment of those who are traditional, who are resistant to new ideas, who don't want the settlted condition changed, who say "what's wrong with you? This has worked well for so many decades. Why are you upsetting the apple cart? Why are you changing all this?" And the other segment of those who are so focused on change, so attached to it that they follow superficial and ephemeral trends, destroying the foundations of the religious community, and creating disunity. So change has historically been a difficult problem for religious communities to handle. Where does the Baha'i Faith fit in with this? When we look at the Baha'i teachings we find that the ideal human state which our religion is seeking to create in its followers is that not of a group of obedient automata, not of a set of robots following fixed instructions. The ideal human state that this religion we belong to is that of creativity, of human beings who are innovative, who generate knowledge through invention and insight. Our religion aims at social and individual development. It aims at change. Our religion is focused on creating an ever-advancing civliization... ...I believe that the Baha'i Faith represents to an extent never before seen in human history, represents a religion committed to change. Change is in our bones. Change is intrinsic to the very core of our religion. Change is basic to the purpose and the direction of our religion and you will find that the four year plan calls for change and in many instances for substantial change... ...it is crucial that one derive the insight and wisdom and good judgment to distinguish between those things which should not be changed and should remain constant, and those things which are open to change... ...We need also cultivate that sense of security which is open to appropriate change which proides the necessary degree of flexibility, to the operation of the Faith. We need to avoid rigidity and also avoid the tendency to excessive fluidity... ...And as the years go by and as the perils of political correctness reach out to us, it will become more and more important to us to be very clear in our minds that there are certain things in our religion that are not open to change because they are ordained by the infallible authority in our Cause... ...The point I want to make is that the four year plan lifts the veil, the four year plan lifts a veil, and shows us what kind of community we are aiming to create, and it seems to me it indicates we are aiming to create a religious community which is without precedent in the history of humanity, and which is without parallel in the various communities of mankind. Let me illustrate my point. One of the major emphases in the four year plan is that of individual initiative. You'll find this partiularly addressed in paragraphs 20, 21, and 22, of the four year plan message, the repeated call to the individual members of the rank and file of the Baha'i community to exercise an appropriate degree of individual initiative. Of individuals who are active, who are not passive, who don't just sit there and do whatever they are told to do but who think for themselves, who participate in consultation, who offer their views, who exercise their individual discretion and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. In contrast to so many organizations we see the individual initiative and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. So often organizations see their strength in the fact that they have this captive audience of people who will do whatever they're told, walk to the right, walk to the left, walk straight ahead, stand still, move, run, jump, whatever. We see our strength in individual initiative and activism. We seek to create that kind of community... ...Another element of the vision of a Baha'i community found in the four year plan is the emphasis now placed upon self-motivation. Especially in the development of the local community...It means that we are moving in the direction of a Baha'i community which will not look like a Christian congregation in disguise, it will not consist of a small group of overworked administrators who we call the Local Spiritual Assembly or the National Spiritual Assembly, surrounded by a congregation of passive participants...This new kind of Baha'i community, illuminated by knowledge, diverse interactive participants, individual initiative, self-motivation, this new kind of Baha'i community willnot come into being magically during the four years of the four year plan. We are initiating a process...We have set our course in a new and important direction which may take us many decades to achieve but will lead us to a Baha'i community like nothing else we have ever seen. We will stand in this way in contrast to the society around us, a society distinguished more and more by alienation and passivity, lacking aspiration or vision, suspicious of others, without bonds of trust and community... ...So before I conclude my remarks I want to refer to these three misconceptions and to indicate how I see the four year plan as having dealt with them and hopefully have put them to rest.... ...The first misconception concerns the importance of education. The four year plan message seems to me very clearly to draw the attention of Baha'i yound and old to the fact that the Baha'i Faith needs well-trained minds. It needs people who understand the Baha'i teachings, who are literate, who are well-informed of world events, and who have a good, sound, strong education, as much as they can get, in accord with their life circumstances, their opportunities, their freedom, their abilities and their skills... ...The second of these three misconceptions that I see resolved in the four year plan concerns women. As you know our Writings very clearly specify the vital importance we attach to the application and realization of the equality of men and women. And as I travel around the world I find that from time to time there is a desire and a temptation to abridge this commitment in the name of traditional and cultural practices..That line of thinking, I believe, is totally invalid, and I think the four year plan in several of its messages, the message to Africa, the message to the Nations of the Pacific, and the Pacific Rim, the message to the Indian subcontinent, the message to west and central Asia as well as other places, all indicate that the approach of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination to bring about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes and if this involves change in traditional cultures, so be it. If that's the price we have to pay, so be it... ...The final misconception concerns the role of the United States...whether in fact the wonderful things said about the United States of America in the Baha'i Writings, said by Abdu'l Baha' and by the Guardian, whether they still apply...In paragraph 14 of that message [to the North American believers], the House of Justice quotes one of the very lavish statements of Shoghi Effendi about the United States Baha'is...As far as I'm concerned, the discussion's over.... ...I now bring my remarks to a conclusion. My purpose has simply been to indicate to you what I see to be some of the significance of the four year plan. We're obviously living in very dramatic times. Great changes are occuring on a daily basis....Thank you.... ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 8:56 AM To: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Abuse of TOS rules by bahai community leader <> ---------- From: Glayshf[SMTP:glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:09 AM To: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Our rail replacements Yes, all so sad and true.... You're quite right about the American Bahai. It's been that way for so long and done so much to DRIVE thoughtful people out of the faith. fglaysher >>From: Ruletherod > >What else can this smoke represent >but the newest "clouds" to darken Baha'u'llah's utopian scheme? > >Of course you're right, Rule. The terms smoke and clouds are >meaningful....the veils so often spoken about in the Writings. The search >for truth is always being played out one way or another. The clouds at first >seem to suffocate, but in the long run will serve to cleanse......nothing can >withstand the rigidity that has gripped the Baha'i Faith. It's like a >vise.....sucking the life right out of >everything. > >In outward form it's unrecognizable from what it was 30 years ago. In inner >form it is every bit as breathtaking and full of wonder and curiosity with >lots of "oh my gawd, what do you think this means?" laughter. > >Remember deepenings? Ahhhh....a big smile coming to my face as I think of >all the times I sat around in my home with a few friends (or in their homes) >thinking out loud about what Baha'u'llah said.....tons of food, staying up to >the small hours of the morning....from Epistle to the Son of the Wolf to His >erotic and exquisite poetry...... nothing was off limits, nothing was hidden. >Serious and fanciful discussion both.....all of which led to a sense >of awe in what we were absorbing. > >Somewhere along the line suffocation set in. It's like living with a spouse >that abuses. It's insiduous.... don't want to believe it's happening until >one day upon awakening the realization hits that it can't be ignored any >longer. > >What I can't understand is how the fundamentalists in the Faith yammer on >about darn near worshipping the ground that the institutions sit >on......"have patience with them, they're in their infancy," "give them time >to grow," "obey them no matter what or they'll never grow" (:::::blind >obedience shuddering here::::) - yet have racheted the stakes up high in the >shunning department that fairly soon there won't be anyone left to shun. The >big filter >bin is on overload as it is. Every time they crash down the lid, arms and >legs are sticking out now.....and they're still wiggling. It reminds me of >the song "Hang on Sloopy" - the girl who came from the bad part of town. To >the fundies anyone who doesn't think like them is garbage. > >People have become secondary in the Baha'i Faith. The institutions are >worshipped, glorified, deified. They are the lovers. God got blown off for >bigger, better more tangible things. He was always kind of a vague concept >anyway, don't you think? Easy to discard by the fundies.....a little too >hip, understanding and easy with His crazy humans. He proved to be the >"weakest link" - at least temporarily. > >The latest American Baha'i displays how far the Faith has fallen. It left me >with a feeling in my stomach of sickness and sadness. I detected no concern, >no love, no tenderness toward any seeker.....only a fanatical obsession with >getting new believers and page after page devoted to telling the believers >what a wonderful state the Faith was in. However, if you read between the >lines very carefully, you can smell fear. It's there. They know, >Rule. > > They border around "what's happening" because they know >>that rejoining the ranks will mean certain death -- > >Deserves repeating. Powerful words. > >Andrea > >>--Rule > > > > > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:19 AM Subject: Re: Re: Re: From the attorney I admire your openness, individual initiative, and self-motivation. In my opinion, the uhj must be legally bound by US law as much as any entity operating in the US from Europe or wherever. They, as much as the lsa and nsa, have committed fraud and libel and should be held accountable. It's a mistake not to do so. The uhj is primarily responsible for creating and encouraging the climate of tyranny at the local and national levels. History evinces many examples of Byzantine double agents. One shouldn't rule out, or accept on face value, anything, when it involves the bahai faith and the uhj, given the record.... I'm glad to hear you doubt their respect for your individual initiative and self-motivation. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE35hD54wG8nlsjH1ds0000700c@hotmail.com... Q. Personally, from my perspective, I've always believe everything should be thrown out open to public view. Are you sure that's the way to procede in terms of a lawsuit? A. The only way that something would be secret is if we made some sort of settlement. We will not settle for anything less than the demands stated in the Complaint, which demands are inconsistent with secrecy. Q. Is there any possibility that you might be revealing anything here that might injure your case or provide assistance to the defendants? A. I fully disclosed my research and legal briefs to the NSA and the LSA prior to filing this lawsuit, in an attempt to get them to resolve this matter out of court. They chose not to act. Can you imagine that? We have the truth on our side. Their knowledge of our case cannot hurt us. Q. Why did you choose not to name the uhj as a defendant? A. My client believes in the limited infallibility of the UHJ. Under no circumstances whatsoever would she ever criticize the UHJ in any manner, which includes a lawsuit. I will not state my opinion because it is not relevant. However I do think it is funny to suggest that we are in collusion with the UHJ. I check my mailbox every day, expecting to find a disenrollment letter. ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: Re: A Seeker's Guide to Baha'i Newsgroups and Web-based Discussion Groups This file contains observations on soc.religion.bahai censorship: ---------------------------------------------------- SOC.RELIGION.BAHAI: Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998: "I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb84.htm Ron House: "I think the following is a clear case of malicious rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of soc.religion.bahai." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb53.htm Timothy Mulligan: "(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those SRB moderators." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb59.htm RobertNik: "these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb54.htm Bruce Burrill: "What are Baha'i afraid of?" https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb60.htm Zuteflute: "Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb50.htm YU ZIR: "But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to address." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb46.htm Matthew Cromer: "The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles which they agree with...." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb47.htm Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:"So many Bahais on these forumshave shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb77.htm Shakti3, December 4, 1998: "Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit, seeing the way these newsgroups operate." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/Ex7.htm Harold Shinsato: "It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb33.htm Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998: "The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the controversy started, it has gotten worse." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb79.htm Laeterna: "To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was putting it mildly indeed." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/censored2.htm Robin Peters: "I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the face of consistent censorship." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb43.htm jgoldberg: "I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. " https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb57.htm Ruletherod, November 17, 1998: "Too much damage has already been done in the name and to the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies, linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You can't just blame it all on the critics." https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb76.htm Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under soc.religion.bahai censorship. https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/srb.htm The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: TRB FAQ - A Seeker's Guide to Baha'i Newsgroups and Web-based Discussion Groups Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ People with only web access might want to use www.deja.com www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com or https://www.remarq.com/ They all offer reading and posting capabilities for people who can't directly access alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam. Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai An unmoderated Italian Bahai newgroup is now available: it.cultura.religioni.bahai If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly, I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg." Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting: https://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi tnum=0 David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai: https://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi tnum=3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below. Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?" ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdu'l-Baha: bahai.htm ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and religious conscience. bahai.htm ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.] Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?" ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here. (Three years later their NO votes are their only answer.) Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and conscience?" ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum, the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai and the experience of TENS of THOUSANDS of Bahais and people who have left the Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai ---------------------------------------------------------------------- January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was submitted to news.announce.newgroups. 1stRFD.htm Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO against talk.religion.bahai. Towfiq.htm March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in effect more than a year and a half later. March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to 691 NO. 1stRESULT.htm April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates alt.religion.bahai. arb.htm October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated newsgroups: UHJ1.htm November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA committee: archive.htm December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of Usenet interest polling: UHJ2.htm January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was submitted. 2ndRFD.htm February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES to 65 NO. 2ndRESULT.htm May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher that contain his signature file: srb23.htm September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL removes the TOS after considering both sides of the issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening him and the experience of others: AOL.htm September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses and the name of the poster: srbban.htm October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House and attempts to undermine the new support for the "neutral" RFD: srb67.htm December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the 3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai. 3rdRFD.htm December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai. Maneck1.htm January 10, 1999: Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63. 3rdRESULT.htm It should be noted that talk.religion.bahai eventually passed despite of the opposition of Bahais. The annotated RESULT may be read at 3rdRESULT.htm The annotated NO voters list may be read at NOvoters3rd.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community, see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This document at FAQ.htm See The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: bahai.htm Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm Also see: Full Text of UHJ's Letter of April 7, 1999 UHJLetterApril71999.htm Juan Cole, "Commentary" on UHJ's "outburst of vehement ignorance" Outburst.htm Letter of Resignation from Paul Dodenhoff, Assistant to the Auxiliary Board LetterResignationPD.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:28 AM Subject: Re: 'Abdu'l-Baha on your duty to guard the Covenant & the religion of God The Inquisitors could use this same passage to justify their tyranny.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE59sJVRUmw08g1H8nn0000758d@hotmail.com... My purpose is to explain to you that it is your duty to guard the religion of God so that none shall be able to assail it outwardly or inwardly. If you find harmful teachings are being set forth by some individual, no matter who that individual be, even though he should be my own son, know, verily, that I am completely severed from him. If anyone speaks against the Covenant, even though he should be my son, know that I am opposed to him. Those who speak falsehoods, who covet worldly things and seek to accumulate the riches of this earth are not of me. But when you find a person living up to the teachings of Baha'u'llah, following the precepts of the Hidden Words, know that he belongs to Baha'u'llah; and, verily, I proclaim that he is of me. If, on the other hand, you see anyone whose deeds and conduct are contrary to and not in conformity with the good pleasure of the Blessed Perfection and against the spirit of the Hidden Words, let that be your standard and criterion of judgment against him, for know that I am altogether severed from him no matter who he may be. This is the truth. (`Abdu'l-Baha: Promulgation of Universal Peace*, Pages: 456-457) ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 5:57 AM Subject: Re: Excerpts from Dr.Kahn's speech: change, individual initiative, self-motivation Michael McKenny wrote: Prove to us things have really changed. - "Let deeds, not words, be your adorning." --Baha'u'llah -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9f5t7v$e1g$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > > Greetings, Yorgos. > Many thanks for posting these extracts of this speech. It is always > very inyeresting to read such material. By the way, could you or someone > else kindly post the Ridvan message from the Universal House of Justice. > The highly significant features of this talk include its insistence > that the Baha'i Faith is not about the creation of mindless automata, but > about the generation of thinking humans able to initiate action, as well > as its underlining the concept of the Baha'i Faith as an entity very much > based on, aware of the inevitability of and encouraging change and its > recognition of the essential Baha'i principle of the equality of women > and men. > I am well aware that the use of newspeak has been a serious problem > in some Baha'i circles, including those at the highest levels. One point > to bear in mind is that when words are used, even if it's newspeak, if > it's not really intended to be true, nevertheless there was a need felt by > those in control to appear to be expressing the positions stated. One may > then avoid falling into the pitfalls of accusations of not meaning it, > but rather insist that these words be taken at face value, that Baha'is > live up to these words. > So, let us hold Baha'is to the standard of not having obedience as > the primary principle, of welcoming change (change such as that which > would take advantage of the best aspects of American democracy, instead > of fulminating against it) and to quote the speaker, > "...The approach of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination > to bring about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes." > Let the eyes of the world observe the achievement of these goals and let no > one tolerate the abuse of language that has these people doing what > Baha'u'llah condemned, saying what they do not do, being people whose words > do not match their deeds. > I look forward to the release of the fundamentalists from blind > obedience, to the freedom of the UHJ and other Baha'i institutions from > insisting on blind obedience, to the welcoming by all Baha'is of change, > in particular that change which brings their attitudes and behaviour more > in accord with the tolerance, open-mindedness and liberty not only of > American democracy, but also of the movement as launched by Baha'u'llah. > I very much look forward to the "Uncompromising determination to bring > about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes" which will > exist only when women are accepted as equally capable of service at all > levels in the Baha'i world, including on the Universal House of Justice. > Well we're watching. Prove to us things have really changed. > To the Future, > Michael > > ...Dear friends, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with = > you this afternoon, and to speak about a subject which is of such = > fascination to me as the four year plan...I obviously do not speak for = > the UHJ, nor do my views represent necessarily those of the Institution. = > I speak to you as an individual believer who has, with all of us, had = > the opportunity to peruse this message and to try to derive insight from = > it... > =20 > ...But as I look at it, it comes to my mind that there are three very = > important principles which underlie it... > =20 > ...The first of those three is this, I believe that the four year plan = > represents to an extent not previously apparent the unconventional view = > of the world which we Baha'i hold...The things Iread in the Baha'i = > Writings indicate to me that the existence and operation of these = > spiritual forces is essential to an adequate understanding of the = > policies of government and social bodies and that the course of world = > events in the later part of the nineteenth century, during the whole of = > the twentieth centry and beyond, can only be adequately understood in = > terms of the operation of spiritual forces. It is this sense that I = > believe the Baha'i perspective of the world is not simply a little = > different, not simply somewhat different, not even very different, but = > radically different from that of the people around us...And I suggest = > this to be one of the basic principles underlying the four year plan. > > The second principle I see as basic to the four year plan is its = > extraordinary emphasis on processes rather than events....As Baha'i we = > give due weight to events...We do not deny the significance and value of = > events. But the principle emphasis in out religion seems to me, to be = > on processes rather than events...This change of orientation, this = > change of viewpoint, from event to process has many significant = > implications. It means that we must become sensitive to recognize the = > significance of small events. If we are to be process oriented we must = > become sufficiently insightful, sufficiently sensitive to recognize that = > some small events are most significant in terms of process... > > The third of the three fundamental principles which I see as underlying = > the four year plan is that of the concept of change. I mention this = > because my observation of history is that religions have a lot of = > problems with change. It is very difficult for a religion or a = > religious community or organization to handle change. Change is = > unsettling, change can be disruptive, change can lead to division or = > polarization, most often under the impact of the development of society, = > when a religion is subject to the stress of change, its community tends = > to polarize. One segment of those who are traditional, who are = > resistant to new ideas, who don't want the settlted condition changed, = > who say "what's wrong with you? This has worked well for so many = > decades. Why are you upsetting the apple cart? Why are you changing = > all this?" And the other segment of those who are so focused on change, = > so attached to it that they follow superficial and ephemeral trends, = > destroying the foundations of the religious community, and creating = > disunity. So change has historically been a difficult problem for = > religious communities to handle. Where does the Baha'i Faith fit in = > with this? When we look at the Baha'i teachings we find that the ideal = > human state which our religion is seeking to create in its followers is = > that not of a group of obedient automata, not of a set of robots = > following fixed instructions. The ideal human state that this religion = > we belong to is that of creativity, of human beings who are innovative, = > who generate knowledge through invention and insight. Our religion aims = > at social and individual development. It aims at change. Our religion = > is focused on creating an ever-advancing civliization... > ...I believe that the Baha'i Faith represents to an extent never before = > seen in human history, represents a religion committed to change. = > Change is in our bones. Change is intrinsic to the very core of our = > religion. Change is basic to the purpose and the direction of our = > religion and you will find that the four year plan calls for change and = > in many instances for substantial change... > ...it is crucial that one derive the insight and wisdom and good = > judgment to distinguish between those things which should not be changed = > and should remain constant, and those things which are open to change... > ...We need also cultivate that sense of security which is open to = > appropriate change which proides the necessary degree of flexibility, to = > the operation of the Faith. We need to avoid rigidity and also avoid = > the tendency to excessive fluidity... > ...And as the years go by and as the perils of political correctness = > reach out to us, it will become more and more important to us to be very = > clear in our minds that there are certain things in our religion that = > are not open to change because they are ordained by the infallible = > authority in our Cause... > ...The point I want to make is that the four year plan lifts the veil, = > the four year plan lifts a veil, and shows us what kind of community we = > are aiming to create, and it seems to me it indicates we are aiming to = > create a religious community which is without precedent in the history = > of humanity, and which is without parallel in the various communities of = > mankind. Let me illustrate my point. One of the major emphases in the = > four year plan is that of individual initiative. You'll find this = > partiularly addressed in paragraphs 20, 21, and 22, of the four year = > plan message, the repeated call to the individual members of the rank = > and file of the Baha'i community to exercise an appropriate degree of = > individual initiative. Of individuals who are active, who are not = > passive, who don't just sit there and do whatever they are told to do = > but who think for themselves, who participate in consultation, who offer = > their views, who exercise their individual discretion and activism as a = > source of strength rather than weakness. In contrast to so many = > organizations we see the individual initiative and activism as a source = > of strength rather than weakness. So often organizations see their = > strength in the fact that they have this captive audience of people who = > will do whatever they're told, walk to the right, walk to the left, walk = > straight ahead, stand still, move, run, jump, whatever. We see our = > strength in individual initiative and activism. We seek to create that = > kind of community... > ...Another element of the vision of a Baha'i community found in the four = > year plan is the emphasis now placed upon self-motivation. Especially = > in the development of the local community...It means that we are moving = > in the direction of a Baha'i community which will not look like a = > Christian congregation in disguise, it will not consist of a small group = > of overworked administrators who we call the Local Spiritual Assembly or = > the National Spiritual Assembly, surrounded by a congregation of passive = > participants...This new kind of Baha'i community, illuminated by = > knowledge, diverse interactive participants, individual initiative, = > self-motivation, this new kind of Baha'i community willnot come into = > being magically during the four years of the four year plan. We are = > initiating a process...We have set our course in a new and important = > direction which may take us many decades to achieve but will lead us to = > a Baha'i community like nothing else we have ever seen. We will stand in = > this way in contrast to the society around us, a society distinguished = > more and more by alienation and passivity, lacking aspiration or vision, = > suspicious of others, without bonds of trust and community... > ...So before I conclude my remarks I want to refer to these three = > misconceptions and to indicate how I see the four year plan as having = > dealt with them and hopefully have put them to rest.... > ...The first misconception concerns the importance of education. The = > four year plan message seems to me very clearly to draw the attention of = > Baha'i yound and old to the fact that the Baha'i Faith needs = > well-trained minds. It needs people who understand the Baha'i = > teachings, who are literate, who are well-informed of world events, and = > who have a good, sound, strong education, as much as they can get, in = > accord with their life circumstances, their opportunities, their = > freedom, their abilities and their skills... > ...The second of these three misconceptions that I see resolved in the = > four year plan concerns women. As you know our Writings very clearly = > specify the vital importance we attach to the application and = > realization of the equality of men and women. And as I travel around = > the world I find that from time to time there is a desire and a = > temptation to abridge this commitment in the name of traditional and = > cultural practices..That line of thinking, I believe, is totally = > invalid, and I think the four year plan in several of its messages, the = > message to Africa, the message to the Nations of the Pacific, and the = > Pacific Rim, the message to the Indian subcontinent, the message to west = > and central Asia as well as other places, all indicate that the approach = > of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination to bring about the = > full implementation of the equality of the sexes and if this involves = > change in traditional cultures, so be it. If that's the price we have = > to pay, so be it... > ...The final misconception concerns the role of the United = > States...whether in fact the wonderful things said about the United = > States of America in the Baha'i Writings, said by Abdu'l Baha' and by = > the Guardian, whether they still apply...In paragraph 14 of that message = > [to the North American believers], the House of Justice quotes one of = > the very lavish statements of Shoghi Effendi about the United States = > Baha'is...As far as I'm concerned, the discussion's over.... > ...I now bring my remarks to a conclusion. My purpose has simply been = > to indicate to you what I see to be some of the significance of the four = > year plan. We're obviously living in very dramatic times. Great changes = > are occuring on a daily basis....Thank you.... > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > What is the exact date of this speech? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Has the "temporary" policy of "review" been officially abandoned? In no uncertain terms? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the individual initiative and self-movtivation of Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman and Deborah Buckhorn be recognized and welcomed? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... WILL THE DAMAGE DONE TO THESE PEOPLE BE CORRECTED, CHANGED? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the fundamentalists on the uhj resign or retire? Will "review" definitely be ENDED? Will the witchhunts be rejected at the highest level and the damage rectified? Will the fanatics who perpetrated the inquisitions be PURGED? Will an effective system of CHECK & BALANCES finally be created and implemented? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... "Let deeds, not words be your adorning." -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE46i9yzu23LiC1h1jY000070ea@hotmail.com... Here are excerpts from Dr. Kahn's speech on the four year plan. The third principle and second misconception are of the most interest. I included the rest for completeness. HERE IS YOUR LONG-AWAITED BREATH OF FRESH AIR: **************************************************************************** *** ...Dear friends, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with you this afternoon, and to speak about a subject which is of such fascination to me as the four year plan...I obviously do not speak for the UHJ, nor do my views represent necessarily those of the Institution. I speak to you as an individual believer who has, with all of us, had the opportunity to peruse this message and to try to derive insight from it... ...But as I look at it, it comes to my mind that there are three very important principles which underlie it... ...The first of those three is this, I believe that the four year plan represents to an extent not previously apparent the unconventional view of the world which we Baha'i hold...The things Iread in the Baha'i Writings indicate to me that the existence and operation of these spiritual forces is essential to an adequate understanding of the policies of government and social bodies and that the course of world events in the later part of the nineteenth century, during the whole of the twentieth centry and beyond, can only be adequately understood in terms of the operation of spiritual forces. It is this sense that I believe the Baha'i perspective of the world is not simply a little different, not simply somewhat different, not even very different, but radically different from that of the people around us...And I suggest this to be one of the basic principles underlying the four year plan. The second principle I see as basic to the four year plan is its extraordinary emphasis on processes rather than events....As Baha'i we give due weight to events...We do not deny the significance and value of events. But the principle emphasis in out religion seems to me, to be on processes rather than events...This change of orientation, this change of viewpoint, from event to process has many significant implications. It means that we must become sensitive to recognize the significance of small events. If we are to be process oriented we must become sufficiently insightful, sufficiently sensitive to recognize that some small events are most significant in terms of process... The third of the three fundamental principles which I see as underlying the four year plan is that of the concept of change. I mention this because my observation of history is that religions have a lot of problems with change. It is very difficult for a religion or a religious community or organization to handle change. Change is unsettling, change can be disruptive, change can lead to division or polarization, most often under the impact of the development of society, when a religion is subject to the stress of change, its community tends to polarize. One segment of those who are traditional, who are resistant to new ideas, who don't want the settlted condition changed, who say "what's wrong with you? This has worked well for so many decades. Why are you upsetting the apple cart? Why are you changing all this?" And the other segment of those who are so focused on change, so attached to it that they follow superficial and ephemeral trends, destroying the foundations of the religious community, and creating disunity. So change has historically been a difficult problem for religious communities to handle. Where does the Baha'i Faith fit in with this? When we look at the Baha'i teachings we find that the ideal human state which our religion is seeking to create in its followers is that not of a group of obedient automata, not of a set of robots following fixed instructions. The ideal human state that this religion we belong to is that of creativity, of human beings who are innovative, who generate knowledge through invention and insight. Our religion aims at social and individual development. It aims at change. Our religion is focused on creating an ever-advancing civliization... ...I believe that the Baha'i Faith represents to an extent never before seen in human history, represents a religion committed to change. Change is in our bones. Change is intrinsic to the very core of our religion. Change is basic to the purpose and the direction of our religion and you will find that the four year plan calls for change and in many instances for substantial change... ...it is crucial that one derive the insight and wisdom and good judgment to distinguish between those things which should not be changed and should remain constant, and those things which are open to change... ...We need also cultivate that sense of security which is open to appropriate change which proides the necessary degree of flexibility, to the operation of the Faith. We need to avoid rigidity and also avoid the tendency to excessive fluidity... ...And as the years go by and as the perils of political correctness reach out to us, it will become more and more important to us to be very clear in our minds that there are certain things in our religion that are not open to change because they are ordained by the infallible authority in our Cause... ...The point I want to make is that the four year plan lifts the veil, the four year plan lifts a veil, and shows us what kind of community we are aiming to create, and it seems to me it indicates we are aiming to create a religious community which is without precedent in the history of humanity, and which is without parallel in the various communities of mankind. Let me illustrate my point. One of the major emphases in the four year plan is that of individual initiative. You'll find this partiularly addressed in paragraphs 20, 21, and 22, of the four year plan message, the repeated call to the individual members of the rank and file of the Baha'i community to exercise an appropriate degree of individual initiative. Of individuals who are active, who are not passive, who don't just sit there and do whatever they are told to do but who think for themselves, who participate in consultation, who offer their views, who exercise their individual discretion and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. In contrast to so many organizations we see the individual initiative and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. So often organizations see their strength in the fact that they have this captive audience of people who will do whatever they're told, walk to the right, walk to the left, walk straight ahead, stand still, move, run, jump, whatever. We see our strength in individual initiative and activism. We seek to create that kind of community... ...Another element of the vision of a Baha'i community found in the four year plan is the emphasis now placed upon self-motivation. Especially in the development of the local community...It means that we are moving in the direction of a Baha'i community which will not look like a Christian congregation in disguise, it will not consist of a small group of overworked administrators who we call the Local Spiritual Assembly or the National Spiritual Assembly, surrounded by a congregation of passive participants...This new kind of Baha'i community, illuminated by knowledge, diverse interactive participants, individual initiative, self-motivation, this new kind of Baha'i community willnot come into being magically during the four years of the four year plan. We are initiating a process...We have set our course in a new and important direction which may take us many decades to achieve but will lead us to a Baha'i community like nothing else we have ever seen. We will stand in this way in contrast to the society around us, a society distinguished more and more by alienation and passivity, lacking aspiration or vision, suspicious of others, without bonds of trust and community... ...So before I conclude my remarks I want to refer to these three misconceptions and to indicate how I see the four year plan as having dealt with them and hopefully have put them to rest.... ...The first misconception concerns the importance of education. The four year plan message seems to me very clearly to draw the attention of Baha'i yound and old to the fact that the Baha'i Faith needs well-trained minds. It needs people who understand the Baha'i teachings, who are literate, who are well-informed of world events, and who have a good, sound, strong education, as much as they can get, in accord with their life circumstances, their opportunities, their freedom, their abilities and their skills... ...The second of these three misconceptions that I see resolved in the four year plan concerns women. As you know our Writings very clearly specify the vital importance we attach to the application and realization of the equality of men and women. And as I travel around the world I find that from time to time there is a desire and a temptation to abridge this commitment in the name of traditional and cultural practices..That line of thinking, I believe, is totally invalid, and I think the four year plan in several of its messages, the message to Africa, the message to the Nations of the Pacific, and the Pacific Rim, the message to the Indian subcontinent, the message to west and central Asia as well as other places, all indicate that the approach of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination to bring about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes and if this involves change in traditional cultures, so be it. If that's the price we have to pay, so be it... ...The final misconception concerns the role of the United States...whether in fact the wonderful things said about the United States of America in the Baha'i Writings, said by Abdu'l Baha' and by the Guardian, whether they still apply...In paragraph 14 of that message [to the North American believers], the House of Justice quotes one of the very lavish statements of Shoghi Effendi about the United States Baha'is...As far as I'm concerned, the discussion's over.... ...I now bring my remarks to a conclusion. My purpose has simply been to indicate to you what I see to be some of the significance of the four year plan. We're obviously living in very dramatic times. Great changes are occuring on a daily basis....Thank you.... ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Excerpts from Dr.Kahn's speech: change, individual initiative, self-motivation I'd appreciate someone posting the date of Kahn's speech. Perhaps others would be interested in knowing it as well. --------- Michael McKenny wrote: Prove to us things have really changed. - "Let deeds, not words, be your adorning." --Baha'u'llah -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9f5t7v$e1g$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > > Greetings, Yorgos. > Many thanks for posting these extracts of this speech. It is always > very inyeresting to read such material. By the way, could you or someone > else kindly post the Ridvan message from the Universal House of Justice. > The highly significant features of this talk include its insistence > that the Baha'i Faith is not about the creation of mindless automata, but > about the generation of thinking humans able to initiate action, as well > as its underlining the concept of the Baha'i Faith as an entity very much > based on, aware of the inevitability of and encouraging change and its > recognition of the essential Baha'i principle of the equality of women > and men. > I am well aware that the use of newspeak has been a serious problem > in some Baha'i circles, including those at the highest levels. One point > to bear in mind is that when words are used, even if it's newspeak, if > it's not really intended to be true, nevertheless there was a need felt by > those in control to appear to be expressing the positions stated. One may > then avoid falling into the pitfalls of accusations of not meaning it, > but rather insist that these words be taken at face value, that Baha'is > live up to these words. > So, let us hold Baha'is to the standard of not having obedience as > the primary principle, of welcoming change (change such as that which > would take advantage of the best aspects of American democracy, instead > of fulminating against it) and to quote the speaker, > "...The approach of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination > to bring about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes." > Let the eyes of the world observe the achievement of these goals and let no > one tolerate the abuse of language that has these people doing what > Baha'u'llah condemned, saying what they do not do, being people whose words > do not match their deeds. > I look forward to the release of the fundamentalists from blind > obedience, to the freedom of the UHJ and other Baha'i institutions from > insisting on blind obedience, to the welcoming by all Baha'is of change, > in particular that change which brings their attitudes and behaviour more > in accord with the tolerance, open-mindedness and liberty not only of > American democracy, but also of the movement as launched by Baha'u'llah. > I very much look forward to the "Uncompromising determination to bring > about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes" which will > exist only when women are accepted as equally capable of service at all > levels in the Baha'i world, including on the Universal House of Justice. > Well we're watching. Prove to us things have really changed. > To the Future, > Michael > > ...Dear friends, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with = > you this afternoon, and to speak about a subject which is of such = > fascination to me as the four year plan...I obviously do not speak for = > the UHJ, nor do my views represent necessarily those of the Institution. = > I speak to you as an individual believer who has, with all of us, had = > the opportunity to peruse this message and to try to derive insight from = > it... > =20 > ...But as I look at it, it comes to my mind that there are three very = > important principles which underlie it... > =20 > ...The first of those three is this, I believe that the four year plan = > represents to an extent not previously apparent the unconventional view = > of the world which we Baha'i hold...The things Iread in the Baha'i = > Writings indicate to me that the existence and operation of these = > spiritual forces is essential to an adequate understanding of the = > policies of government and social bodies and that the course of world = > events in the later part of the nineteenth century, during the whole of = > the twentieth centry and beyond, can only be adequately understood in = > terms of the operation of spiritual forces. It is this sense that I = > believe the Baha'i perspective of the world is not simply a little = > different, not simply somewhat different, not even very different, but = > radically different from that of the people around us...And I suggest = > this to be one of the basic principles underlying the four year plan. > > The second principle I see as basic to the four year plan is its = > extraordinary emphasis on processes rather than events....As Baha'i we = > give due weight to events...We do not deny the significance and value of = > events. But the principle emphasis in out religion seems to me, to be = > on processes rather than events...This change of orientation, this = > change of viewpoint, from event to process has many significant = > implications. It means that we must become sensitive to recognize the = > significance of small events. If we are to be process oriented we must = > become sufficiently insightful, sufficiently sensitive to recognize that = > some small events are most significant in terms of process... > > The third of the three fundamental principles which I see as underlying = > the four year plan is that of the concept of change. I mention this = > because my observation of history is that religions have a lot of = > problems with change. It is very difficult for a religion or a = > religious community or organization to handle change. Change is = > unsettling, change can be disruptive, change can lead to division or = > polarization, most often under the impact of the development of society, = > when a religion is subject to the stress of change, its community tends = > to polarize. One segment of those who are traditional, who are = > resistant to new ideas, who don't want the settlted condition changed, = > who say "what's wrong with you? This has worked well for so many = > decades. Why are you upsetting the apple cart? Why are you changing = > all this?" And the other segment of those who are so focused on change, = > so attached to it that they follow superficial and ephemeral trends, = > destroying the foundations of the religious community, and creating = > disunity. So change has historically been a difficult problem for = > religious communities to handle. Where does the Baha'i Faith fit in = > with this? When we look at the Baha'i teachings we find that the ideal = > human state which our religion is seeking to create in its followers is = > that not of a group of obedient automata, not of a set of robots = > following fixed instructions. The ideal human state that this religion = > we belong to is that of creativity, of human beings who are innovative, = > who generate knowledge through invention and insight. Our religion aims = > at social and individual development. It aims at change. Our religion = > is focused on creating an ever-advancing civliization... > ...I believe that the Baha'i Faith represents to an extent never before = > seen in human history, represents a religion committed to change. = > Change is in our bones. Change is intrinsic to the very core of our = > religion. Change is basic to the purpose and the direction of our = > religion and you will find that the four year plan calls for change and = > in many instances for substantial change... > ...it is crucial that one derive the insight and wisdom and good = > judgment to distinguish between those things which should not be changed = > and should remain constant, and those things which are open to change... > ...We need also cultivate that sense of security which is open to = > appropriate change which proides the necessary degree of flexibility, to = > the operation of the Faith. We need to avoid rigidity and also avoid = > the tendency to excessive fluidity... > ...And as the years go by and as the perils of political correctness = > reach out to us, it will become more and more important to us to be very = > clear in our minds that there are certain things in our religion that = > are not open to change because they are ordained by the infallible = > authority in our Cause... > ...The point I want to make is that the four year plan lifts the veil, = > the four year plan lifts a veil, and shows us what kind of community we = > are aiming to create, and it seems to me it indicates we are aiming to = > create a religious community which is without precedent in the history = > of humanity, and which is without parallel in the various communities of = > mankind. Let me illustrate my point. One of the major emphases in the = > four year plan is that of individual initiative. You'll find this = > partiularly addressed in paragraphs 20, 21, and 22, of the four year = > plan message, the repeated call to the individual members of the rank = > and file of the Baha'i community to exercise an appropriate degree of = > individual initiative. Of individuals who are active, who are not = > passive, who don't just sit there and do whatever they are told to do = > but who think for themselves, who participate in consultation, who offer = > their views, who exercise their individual discretion and activism as a = > source of strength rather than weakness. In contrast to so many = > organizations we see the individual initiative and activism as a source = > of strength rather than weakness. So often organizations see their = > strength in the fact that they have this captive audience of people who = > will do whatever they're told, walk to the right, walk to the left, walk = > straight ahead, stand still, move, run, jump, whatever. We see our = > strength in individual initiative and activism. We seek to create that = > kind of community... > ...Another element of the vision of a Baha'i community found in the four = > year plan is the emphasis now placed upon self-motivation. Especially = > in the development of the local community...It means that we are moving = > in the direction of a Baha'i community which will not look like a = > Christian congregation in disguise, it will not consist of a small group = > of overworked administrators who we call the Local Spiritual Assembly or = > the National Spiritual Assembly, surrounded by a congregation of passive = > participants...This new kind of Baha'i community, illuminated by = > knowledge, diverse interactive participants, individual initiative, = > self-motivation, this new kind of Baha'i community willnot come into = > being magically during the four years of the four year plan. We are = > initiating a process...We have set our course in a new and important = > direction which may take us many decades to achieve but will lead us to = > a Baha'i community like nothing else we have ever seen. We will stand in = > this way in contrast to the society around us, a society distinguished = > more and more by alienation and passivity, lacking aspiration or vision, = > suspicious of others, without bonds of trust and community... > ...So before I conclude my remarks I want to refer to these three = > misconceptions and to indicate how I see the four year plan as having = > dealt with them and hopefully have put them to rest.... > ...The first misconception concerns the importance of education. The = > four year plan message seems to me very clearly to draw the attention of = > Baha'i yound and old to the fact that the Baha'i Faith needs = > well-trained minds. It needs people who understand the Baha'i = > teachings, who are literate, who are well-informed of world events, and = > who have a good, sound, strong education, as much as they can get, in = > accord with their life circumstances, their opportunities, their = > freedom, their abilities and their skills... > ...The second of these three misconceptions that I see resolved in the = > four year plan concerns women. As you know our Writings very clearly = > specify the vital importance we attach to the application and = > realization of the equality of men and women. And as I travel around = > the world I find that from time to time there is a desire and a = > temptation to abridge this commitment in the name of traditional and = > cultural practices..That line of thinking, I believe, is totally = > invalid, and I think the four year plan in several of its messages, the = > message to Africa, the message to the Nations of the Pacific, and the = > Pacific Rim, the message to the Indian subcontinent, the message to west = > and central Asia as well as other places, all indicate that the approach = > of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination to bring about the = > full implementation of the equality of the sexes and if this involves = > change in traditional cultures, so be it. If that's the price we have = > to pay, so be it... > ...The final misconception concerns the role of the United = > States...whether in fact the wonderful things said about the United = > States of America in the Baha'i Writings, said by Abdu'l Baha' and by = > the Guardian, whether they still apply...In paragraph 14 of that message = > [to the North American believers], the House of Justice quotes one of = > the very lavish statements of Shoghi Effendi about the United States = > Baha'is...As far as I'm concerned, the discussion's over.... > ...I now bring my remarks to a conclusion. My purpose has simply been = > to indicate to you what I see to be some of the significance of the four = > year plan. We're obviously living in very dramatic times. Great changes = > are occuring on a daily basis....Thank you.... > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > What is the exact date of this speech? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Has the "temporary" policy of "review" been officially abandoned? In no uncertain terms? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the individual initiative and self-movtivation of Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman and Deborah Buckhorn be recognized and welcomed? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... WILL THE DAMAGE DONE TO THESE PEOPLE BE CORRECTED, CHANGED? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the fundamentalists on the uhj resign or retire? Will "review" definitely be ENDED? Will the witchhunts be rejected at the highest level and the damage rectified? Will the fanatics who perpetrated the inquisitions be PURGED? Will an effective system of CHECK & BALANCES finally be created and implemented? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... "Let deeds, not words be your adorning." -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE46i9yzu23LiC1h1jY000070ea@hotmail.com... Here are excerpts from Dr. Kahn's speech on the four year plan. The third principle and second misconception are of the most interest. I included the rest for completeness. HERE IS YOUR LONG-AWAITED BREATH OF FRESH AIR: **************************************************************************** *** ...Dear friends, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with you this afternoon, and to speak about a subject which is of such fascination to me as the four year plan...I obviously do not speak for the UHJ, nor do my views represent necessarily those of the Institution. I speak to you as an individual believer who has, with all of us, had the opportunity to peruse this message and to try to derive insight from it... ...But as I look at it, it comes to my mind that there are three very important principles which underlie it... ...The first of those three is this, I believe that the four year plan represents to an extent not previously apparent the unconventional view of the world which we Baha'i hold...The things Iread in the Baha'i Writings indicate to me that the existence and operation of these spiritual forces is essential to an adequate understanding of the policies of government and social bodies and that the course of world events in the later part of the nineteenth century, during the whole of the twentieth centry and beyond, can only be adequately understood in terms of the operation of spiritual forces. It is this sense that I believe the Baha'i perspective of the world is not simply a little different, not simply somewhat different, not even very different, but radically different from that of the people around us...And I suggest this to be one of the basic principles underlying the four year plan. The second principle I see as basic to the four year plan is its extraordinary emphasis on processes rather than events....As Baha'i we give due weight to events...We do not deny the significance and value of events. But the principle emphasis in out religion seems to me, to be on processes rather than events...This change of orientation, this change of viewpoint, from event to process has many significant implications. It means that we must become sensitive to recognize the significance of small events. If we are to be process oriented we must become sufficiently insightful, sufficiently sensitive to recognize that some small events are most significant in terms of process... The third of the three fundamental principles which I see as underlying the four year plan is that of the concept of change. I mention this because my observation of history is that religions have a lot of problems with change. It is very difficult for a religion or a religious community or organization to handle change. Change is unsettling, change can be disruptive, change can lead to division or polarization, most often under the impact of the development of society, when a religion is subject to the stress of change, its community tends to polarize. One segment of those who are traditional, who are resistant to new ideas, who don't want the settlted condition changed, who say "what's wrong with you? This has worked well for so many decades. Why are you upsetting the apple cart? Why are you changing all this?" And the other segment of those who are so focused on change, so attached to it that they follow superficial and ephemeral trends, destroying the foundations of the religious community, and creating disunity. So change has historically been a difficult problem for religious communities to handle. Where does the Baha'i Faith fit in with this? When we look at the Baha'i teachings we find that the ideal human state which our religion is seeking to create in its followers is that not of a group of obedient automata, not of a set of robots following fixed instructions. The ideal human state that this religion we belong to is that of creativity, of human beings who are innovative, who generate knowledge through invention and insight. Our religion aims at social and individual development. It aims at change. Our religion is focused on creating an ever-advancing civliization... ...I believe that the Baha'i Faith represents to an extent never before seen in human history, represents a religion committed to change. Change is in our bones. Change is intrinsic to the very core of our religion. Change is basic to the purpose and the direction of our religion and you will find that the four year plan calls for change and in many instances for substantial change... ...it is crucial that one derive the insight and wisdom and good judgment to distinguish between those things which should not be changed and should remain constant, and those things which are open to change... ...We need also cultivate that sense of security which is open to appropriate change which proides the necessary degree of flexibility, to the operation of the Faith. We need to avoid rigidity and also avoid the tendency to excessive fluidity... ...And as the years go by and as the perils of political correctness reach out to us, it will become more and more important to us to be very clear in our minds that there are certain things in our religion that are not open to change because they are ordained by the infallible authority in our Cause... ...The point I want to make is that the four year plan lifts the veil, the four year plan lifts a veil, and shows us what kind of community we are aiming to create, and it seems to me it indicates we are aiming to create a religious community which is without precedent in the history of humanity, and which is without parallel in the various communities of mankind. Let me illustrate my point. One of the major emphases in the four year plan is that of individual initiative. You'll find this partiularly addressed in paragraphs 20, 21, and 22, of the four year plan message, the repeated call to the individual members of the rank and file of the Baha'i community to exercise an appropriate degree of individual initiative. Of individuals who are active, who are not passive, who don't just sit there and do whatever they are told to do but who think for themselves, who participate in consultation, who offer their views, who exercise their individual discretion and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. In contrast to so many organizations we see the individual initiative and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. So often organizations see their strength in the fact that they have this captive audience of people who will do whatever they're told, walk to the right, walk to the left, walk straight ahead, stand still, move, run, jump, whatever. We see our strength in individual initiative and activism. We seek to create that kind of community... ...Another element of the vision of a Baha'i community found in the four year plan is the emphasis now placed upon self-motivation. Especially in the development of the local community...It means that we are moving in the direction of a Baha'i community which will not look like a Christian congregation in disguise, it will not consist of a small group of overworked administrators who we call the Local Spiritual Assembly or the National Spiritual Assembly, surrounded by a congregation of passive participants...This new kind of Baha'i community, illuminated by knowledge, diverse interactive participants, individual initiative, self-motivation, this new kind of Baha'i community willnot come into being magically during the four years of the four year plan. We are initiating a process...We have set our course in a new and important direction which may take us many decades to achieve but will lead us to a Baha'i community like nothing else we have ever seen. We will stand in this way in contrast to the society around us, a society distinguished more and more by alienation and passivity, lacking aspiration or vision, suspicious of others, without bonds of trust and community... ...So before I conclude my remarks I want to refer to these three misconceptions and to indicate how I see the four year plan as having dealt with them and hopefully have put them to rest.... ...The first misconception concerns the importance of education. The four year plan message seems to me very clearly to draw the attention of Baha'i yound and old to the fact that the Baha'i Faith needs well-trained minds. It needs people who understand the Baha'i teachings, who are literate, who are well-informed of world events, and who have a good, sound, strong education, as much as they can get, in accord with their life circumstances, their opportunities, their freedom, their abilities and their skills... ...The second of these three misconceptions that I see resolved in the four year plan concerns women. As you know our Writings very clearly specify the vital importance we attach to the application and realization of the equality of men and women. And as I travel around the world I find that from time to time there is a desire and a temptation to abridge this commitment in the name of traditional and cultural practices..That line of thinking, I believe, is totally invalid, and I think the four year plan in several of its messages, the message to Africa, the message to the Nations of the Pacific, and the Pacific Rim, the message to the Indian subcontinent, the message to west and central Asia as well as other places, all indicate that the approach of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination to bring about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes and if this involves change in traditional cultures, so be it. If that's the price we have to pay, so be it... ...The final misconception concerns the role of the United States...whether in fact the wonderful things said about the United States of America in the Baha'i Writings, said by Abdu'l Baha' and by the Guardian, whether they still apply...In paragraph 14 of that message [to the North American believers], the House of Justice quotes one of the very lavish statements of Shoghi Effendi about the United States Baha'is...As far as I'm concerned, the discussion's over.... ...I now bring my remarks to a conclusion. My purpose has simply been to indicate to you what I see to be some of the significance of the four year plan. We're obviously living in very dramatic times. Great changes are occuring on a daily basis....Thank you.... ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 6:34 AM Subject: Re: Ridvan Message 2001 Hollow triumphalism.... -- What is the exact date of Kahn's speech? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Has the "temporary" policy of "review" been officially abandoned? In no uncertain terms? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the individual initiative and self-movtivation of Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman and Deborah Buckhorn be recognized and welcomed? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... WILL THE DAMAGE DONE TO THESE PEOPLE BE CORRECTED, CHANGED? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the fundamentalists on the uhj resign or retire? Will "review" definitely be ENDED? Will the witchhunts be rejected at the highest level and the damage rectified? Will the fanatics who perpetrated the inquisitions be PURGED? Will an effective system of CHECK & BALANCES finally be created and implemented? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... "Let deeds, not words, be your adorning." -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:thdl25miphee73@corp.supernews.com... > I note that Michael has requested a couple of times that the Ridvan message > be posted. So here it is: > > THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE > BAHÁ'Í WORLD CENTRE > April 2001 - Ridván 158 > > > To the Bahá'ís of the World > > Dearly loved friends, > [01] With great joy in our hearts and high expectations, we come to this > Ridván season at a change of time, when a new state of mind is evident among > us all. Abroad in our world community there is a heightened awareness of the > value of process, the necessity of planning and the virtue of systematic > action in fostering growth and in developing the human resources by which > expansion can be sustained and consolidation assured. The coherence of > understanding about these prerequisites of progress cannot be overvalued, > nor can the importance of perpetuating them through well-ordered training be > overestimated. And so the arrival of our community at such a moment of > consciousness is an occasion of significance for us. We are deeply grateful > to the Blessed Beauty to be able to recognize and acclaim it at the very > beginning of the global enterprise being launched during these festive days. > > [02] The power of will generated by this consciousness characterized the > conference of the Continental Counsellors and the members of their > Auxilliary Boards who gathered here last January in the Holy Land. The event > produced so illuminating an experience as to signalize the Faith's entry > into a new epoch, the fifth of it's Formative Age. Such a freshness of > vitality as was displayed at this historic gathering came to be understood > as a manifestation of the rising quality of activity throughout the > community. Pursuit during the past year of the essentials for advancing the > process of entry by troops confirmed this observation. The path was thus > paved for the Five Year Plan, the first venture being entered upon in the > Fifth Epoch. > > [03] In augmenting major efforts of the previous Four Year Plan that brought > into being more than 300 training institutes, the Twelve Month Plan achieved > its purpose. It gathered significance through the notable responses of > institutions and individuals to the call for a greater focus on the > spiritual nurturing of children and the involvement of junior youth in > Bahá'í community life.. The training of teachers of children's classes and > the inclusion of junior youth in the institute process have become a regular > part of Bahá'í activities in a number of countries. Despite its brevity, the > Twelve Month Plan had an importance beyond the objectives specifically > assigned. The Plan was a dynamic link between a highly eventful epoch in > Bahá'í history and the immensely promising prospects of a new one, for which > its achievements have so well prepared the community. It has been etched in > our annals, too, for the enduring effects of the Faith's activities at the > end of the twentieth century -- a century that deserves to be reflected upon > by any Bahá'í who wishes to understand the tumultuous forces that influenced > the life of the planet and the processes of the Cause itself at a crucial > time in humanity's social and spiritual evolution. As an aid to so worthy an > effort, Century of Light , a review of the twentieth century, was prepared > at our request and under our supervision. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > To the Bahá'ís of the World Page 2 Ridván 2001 > [04] On many occasions during this one-year endeavour, the external affairs > of the Faith were especially visible. Consider, for example, the instances > of Bahá'í representatives' having participated prominently in the millennial > events that took place in May, August and September at the urging of the > Secretary-General of the United Nations. The implications of so close and > conspicuous an involvement of the Bahá'í International Community with the > processes of the Lesser Peace will require the passage of time to be > properly understood. Among other highlights was the Continental Colloquium > organized in India by the Institute for Studies in Global Prosperity, a new > agency operating under the aegis of the Bahá'í International Community. > Adopting the theme of "science, religion and development", the conference > featured the participation of leading non-governmental organizations of > India, as well as that of institutions of such reknown as UNESCO, UNICEF, > WHO and the World Bank. In October, the Bahá'í World News Service (BWNS) was > launched on the Internet with the intention of reaching both Bahá'í and > non-Bahá'í audiences with news stories about developments throughout the > Bahá'í world. > > [05] The intensive activities at the Bahá'í World Centre during the last > year were, for the most part, made known to the friends through previous > reports that included references to such achievements as the occupation by > the International Teaching Centre of its permanent seat on Mount Carmel; the > Conference of Continental Counsellors and the members of their Auxilliary > Boards held in the Holy Land last January; and the completion of the Mount > Carmel projects, which are now receiving finishing touches in preparation > for the celebratory events in May. Last October, for the first time, > pilgrims and visitors were received at the new Reception Centre in Haifa, > which became fully operational. At Bahjí the embellishment of the sacred > site through the development of its gardens has proceeded continually; the > effort has, however, received a boost from the new project initiated last > year to construct a Visitors' Centre towards the northern end of the > property beyond the Collins Gate. Scheduled for completion in the next few > months, the structure is fully in place, and work is progressing in all > areas, including finishing and landscaping. The new facilities will improve > the ability of the World Centre to receive increasing numbers of pilgrims, > short-term Bahá'í visitors, and special guests. > > [06] To conclude this summary of the year, we rejoice in informing you that, > after the lapse of almost three decades, the National Spiritual Assembly of > the Bahá'ís of Indonesia was restored at the National Convention held in > Jakarta last Ridván.. A ban imposed on Bahá'í activities in August 1962 > severely restricted the actions of Indonesian Bahá'ís for all that time, but > they remained steadfast and wise in their long-suffering until changed > circumstances in that country resulted in the lifting of the ban. May we not > venture to hope, then, that a similar happy report concerning our > beleaguered co-religionists in Iran, Egypt and other countries will not be > too far distant ? > > [07] Dear Friends: Two decades from now the Bahá'í world will celebrate the > centenary of the inception of the Formative Age. We look back at the dawning > of the Age from the vantage point of attainments that could hardly have been > imagined at the outset. Up ahead are horizons that urgently summon the > community to even greater achievements in the short span separating it from > that centennial. Those heights can and must be scaled. The Five Year Plan, > to which we call the urgent and sustained attention of the friends > throughout the world, is intended to meet this challenge. It constitutes the > first of a series of campaigns that will be pursued during these twenty > years. This Plan marks the next phase in the aim to accomplish a significant > advance in the process of entry by troops. It demands an acceleration of > this vital process and, furthermore, insists upon continuity in systematic > endeavour on the part of its three constituent participants: the individual, > the institutions, and the community. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > To the Bahá'ís of the World Page 3 Ridván 2001 > [08] No need to elaborate on the requirements of the Plan, for these were > set out in our message to the assembled Counsellors in the Holy Land and > subsequently shared with all National Spiritual Assemblies. Soon after their > conference, the Counsellors began consulting with the National Assemblies > about the execution of the Plan in their respective jurisdictions. The > Plan's direction is therefore well known to the friends everywhere, as > regional and local preparations for pursuing its major aim are underway. > There is a general awareness by now that efforts will be made to effect a > deeper penetration of the FAith into more and more regions within countries. > For example, where circumstances permit, local communities that exist in > close proximity to each other will be mobilized to participate in intensive > programmes of growth. Other approaches will require methodical opening of > new areas for which homefront pioneers must be raised up in the same > consecrated spirit that prompted those who scattered abroad at earlier times > to open virgin territories across continents and seas. Suffice it to say > that the process animating this divinely driven enterprise will eventually > expand as related features are gradually introduced and systematically > integrated into its operation. > > > [09] A feature of the Fifth Epoch will be the enrichment of the devotional > life of the community through the raising up of national Houses of Worship, > as circumstances in national communities permit. The scheduling of these > projects will be determined by the Universal House of Justice in relation to > the advancement of the process of entry by troops within countries. This > development will unfold throughout successive stages of 'Abdu'l-Bahá's > Divine Plan. Upon the completion of the Mother Temple of the West, the > Guardian started a programme of constructing continental temples. The first > among these were the Mashriqu'l-Adhkárs in Kampala, Sydney and Frankfurt, > which were built in response to Ten Year Plan goals. The Universal House of > Justice continued along these lines with the building of Temples in Panama > City, Apia, and New Delhi. But this continental stage has yet to be > completed: one more edifice remains to be built. It is with profound > thankfulness and joy that we announce at this auspicious moment the decision > to proceed with this last project. During the Five Year Plan, erection of > the Mother Temple of South America in Santiago, Chile, will commence and > thus fulfil a wish clearly expressed by Shoghi Effendi. > > [10] Meanwhile, the time is propitious that further steps be taken at the > World Centre to develop the functions of the institutions occupying the new > edifices on the Arc. The International Teaching Centre having advanced > significantly in its work, attention will be given particularly to > organizing the work of the Centre for the Study of the Texts. Enriching the > translations into English from the Holy Texts will be a special object of > this attention. The purpose of the institution is to assist the Universal > House of Justice in consulting the Sacred Writings and to prepare > translations and commentaries on the authoritative texts of the Faith. > Moreover, in the Holy Land, a continued effort will be devoted towards the > devising of measures to make possible a further increase in the number of > pilgrims and visitors to the Bahá'í World Centre. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > To the Bahá'ís of the World Page 4 Ridván 2001 > [11] In our Ridván message five years ago, we announced the holding of a > major event at the World Centre to mark the completion of the projects on > Mount Carmel and the opening of the Terraces of the Shrine of the Báb to the > public. The moment is upon us, and we exult in the anticipation of welcoming > the friends from virtually all countries to programmes that will extend over > a five-day period, 21 - 25 May. We are also happy to say that steps are > being taken to connect the Bahá'í world to the proceedings through live > transmissions on the World Wide Web and by satellite, about which > information is being provided. As the World Centre focuses on the > preparations, excitement is building up among the public in Haifa, where > municipal authorities have undertaken to publish a book entitled Bahá'í > Shrine and Gardens on Mount Carmel, Haifa, Israel: A Visual Journey to > coincide with the event. Moreover, the Israel Postal Authority is pursuing > its decision to release at the same time a commemorative stamp featuring the > Terraces. The significance of the occasion lies principally in the pause it > will allow for a review of the remarkable distance the Cause has covered in > its development during the twentieth century. It will be time, too, for > considering the future implications of the phenomenal accomplishments > symbolized by the rise of the monumental structures on God's holy > mountain -- a rise that opens the spiritual and administrative centres of > our Faith to the gaze of the world. > > [12] As our community rejoices in these thrilling considerations, let every > member bear in mind that there is no time for resting on laurels. Humanity's > current plight is too desperate to allow for even a moment's hesitation in > sharing the Bread of Life, which has come down from heaven in our time. Let > there be no delay, then, in advancing the process that has every promise of > success in ushering to the banquet table of the Lord of Hosts the souls of > all that hunger after truth. > > [13] May He Who keeps watch over the destiny of His divine System guide and > direct and confirm every effort you make towards the realization of the > urgent tasks set before you. > > > [14] [Signature:] The Universal House of Justice > > > > > -- > "The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice . . ." -- > Baha'u'llah > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 7:29 AM Subject: Date, please.... - Re: Excerpts from Dr.Kahn's speech: change, individual initiative, self-motivation Date, please.... If I recall correctly, Kahn's speech was at least 3 to 5 years ago.... Events show how meaningless WORDS are to bahai fundamentalists. So much for Alison, et al.... --- I'd appreciate someone posting the date of Kahn's speech. Perhaps others would be interested in knowing it as well. --------- Michael McKenny wrote: Prove to us things have really changed. - "Let deeds, not words, be your adorning." --Baha'u'llah -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:9f5t7v$e1g$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > > Greetings, Yorgos. > Many thanks for posting these extracts of this speech. It is always > very inyeresting to read such material. By the way, could you or someone > else kindly post the Ridvan message from the Universal House of Justice. > The highly significant features of this talk include its insistence > that the Baha'i Faith is not about the creation of mindless automata, but > about the generation of thinking humans able to initiate action, as well > as its underlining the concept of the Baha'i Faith as an entity very much > based on, aware of the inevitability of and encouraging change and its > recognition of the essential Baha'i principle of the equality of women > and men. > I am well aware that the use of newspeak has been a serious problem > in some Baha'i circles, including those at the highest levels. One point > to bear in mind is that when words are used, even if it's newspeak, if > it's not really intended to be true, nevertheless there was a need felt by > those in control to appear to be expressing the positions stated. One may > then avoid falling into the pitfalls of accusations of not meaning it, > but rather insist that these words be taken at face value, that Baha'is > live up to these words. > So, let us hold Baha'is to the standard of not having obedience as > the primary principle, of welcoming change (change such as that which > would take advantage of the best aspects of American democracy, instead > of fulminating against it) and to quote the speaker, > "...The approach of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination > to bring about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes." > Let the eyes of the world observe the achievement of these goals and let no > one tolerate the abuse of language that has these people doing what > Baha'u'llah condemned, saying what they do not do, being people whose words > do not match their deeds. > I look forward to the release of the fundamentalists from blind > obedience, to the freedom of the UHJ and other Baha'i institutions from > insisting on blind obedience, to the welcoming by all Baha'is of change, > in particular that change which brings their attitudes and behaviour more > in accord with the tolerance, open-mindedness and liberty not only of > American democracy, but also of the movement as launched by Baha'u'llah. > I very much look forward to the "Uncompromising determination to bring > about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes" which will > exist only when women are accepted as equally capable of service at all > levels in the Baha'i world, including on the Universal House of Justice. > Well we're watching. Prove to us things have really changed. > To the Future, > Michael > > ...Dear friends, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with = > you this afternoon, and to speak about a subject which is of such = > fascination to me as the four year plan...I obviously do not speak for = > the UHJ, nor do my views represent necessarily those of the Institution. = > I speak to you as an individual believer who has, with all of us, had = > the opportunity to peruse this message and to try to derive insight from = > it... > =20 > ...But as I look at it, it comes to my mind that there are three very = > important principles which underlie it... > =20 > ...The first of those three is this, I believe that the four year plan = > represents to an extent not previously apparent the unconventional view = > of the world which we Baha'i hold...The things Iread in the Baha'i = > Writings indicate to me that the existence and operation of these = > spiritual forces is essential to an adequate understanding of the = > policies of government and social bodies and that the course of world = > events in the later part of the nineteenth century, during the whole of = > the twentieth centry and beyond, can only be adequately understood in = > terms of the operation of spiritual forces. It is this sense that I = > believe the Baha'i perspective of the world is not simply a little = > different, not simply somewhat different, not even very different, but = > radically different from that of the people around us...And I suggest = > this to be one of the basic principles underlying the four year plan. > > The second principle I see as basic to the four year plan is its = > extraordinary emphasis on processes rather than events....As Baha'i we = > give due weight to events...We do not deny the significance and value of = > events. But the principle emphasis in out religion seems to me, to be = > on processes rather than events...This change of orientation, this = > change of viewpoint, from event to process has many significant = > implications. It means that we must become sensitive to recognize the = > significance of small events. If we are to be process oriented we must = > become sufficiently insightful, sufficiently sensitive to recognize that = > some small events are most significant in terms of process... > > The third of the three fundamental principles which I see as underlying = > the four year plan is that of the concept of change. I mention this = > because my observation of history is that religions have a lot of = > problems with change. It is very difficult for a religion or a = > religious community or organization to handle change. Change is = > unsettling, change can be disruptive, change can lead to division or = > polarization, most often under the impact of the development of society, = > when a religion is subject to the stress of change, its community tends = > to polarize. One segment of those who are traditional, who are = > resistant to new ideas, who don't want the settlted condition changed, = > who say "what's wrong with you? This has worked well for so many = > decades. Why are you upsetting the apple cart? Why are you changing = > all this?" And the other segment of those who are so focused on change, = > so attached to it that they follow superficial and ephemeral trends, = > destroying the foundations of the religious community, and creating = > disunity. So change has historically been a difficult problem for = > religious communities to handle. Where does the Baha'i Faith fit in = > with this? When we look at the Baha'i teachings we find that the ideal = > human state which our religion is seeking to create in its followers is = > that not of a group of obedient automata, not of a set of robots = > following fixed instructions. The ideal human state that this religion = > we belong to is that of creativity, of human beings who are innovative, = > who generate knowledge through invention and insight. Our religion aims = > at social and individual development. It aims at change. Our religion = > is focused on creating an ever-advancing civliization... > ...I believe that the Baha'i Faith represents to an extent never before = > seen in human history, represents a religion committed to change. = > Change is in our bones. Change is intrinsic to the very core of our = > religion. Change is basic to the purpose and the direction of our = > religion and you will find that the four year plan calls for change and = > in many instances for substantial change... > ...it is crucial that one derive the insight and wisdom and good = > judgment to distinguish between those things which should not be changed = > and should remain constant, and those things which are open to change... > ...We need also cultivate that sense of security which is open to = > appropriate change which proides the necessary degree of flexibility, to = > the operation of the Faith. We need to avoid rigidity and also avoid = > the tendency to excessive fluidity... > ...And as the years go by and as the perils of political correctness = > reach out to us, it will become more and more important to us to be very = > clear in our minds that there are certain things in our religion that = > are not open to change because they are ordained by the infallible = > authority in our Cause... > ...The point I want to make is that the four year plan lifts the veil, = > the four year plan lifts a veil, and shows us what kind of community we = > are aiming to create, and it seems to me it indicates we are aiming to = > create a religious community which is without precedent in the history = > of humanity, and which is without parallel in the various communities of = > mankind. Let me illustrate my point. One of the major emphases in the = > four year plan is that of individual initiative. You'll find this = > partiularly addressed in paragraphs 20, 21, and 22, of the four year = > plan message, the repeated call to the individual members of the rank = > and file of the Baha'i community to exercise an appropriate degree of = > individual initiative. Of individuals who are active, who are not = > passive, who don't just sit there and do whatever they are told to do = > but who think for themselves, who participate in consultation, who offer = > their views, who exercise their individual discretion and activism as a = > source of strength rather than weakness. In contrast to so many = > organizations we see the individual initiative and activism as a source = > of strength rather than weakness. So often organizations see their = > strength in the fact that they have this captive audience of people who = > will do whatever they're told, walk to the right, walk to the left, walk = > straight ahead, stand still, move, run, jump, whatever. We see our = > strength in individual initiative and activism. We seek to create that = > kind of community... > ...Another element of the vision of a Baha'i community found in the four = > year plan is the emphasis now placed upon self-motivation. Especially = > in the development of the local community...It means that we are moving = > in the direction of a Baha'i community which will not look like a = > Christian congregation in disguise, it will not consist of a small group = > of overworked administrators who we call the Local Spiritual Assembly or = > the National Spiritual Assembly, surrounded by a congregation of passive = > participants...This new kind of Baha'i community, illuminated by = > knowledge, diverse interactive participants, individual initiative, = > self-motivation, this new kind of Baha'i community willnot come into = > being magically during the four years of the four year plan. We are = > initiating a process...We have set our course in a new and important = > direction which may take us many decades to achieve but will lead us to = > a Baha'i community like nothing else we have ever seen. We will stand in = > this way in contrast to the society around us, a society distinguished = > more and more by alienation and passivity, lacking aspiration or vision, = > suspicious of others, without bonds of trust and community... > ...So before I conclude my remarks I want to refer to these three = > misconceptions and to indicate how I see the four year plan as having = > dealt with them and hopefully have put them to rest.... > ...The first misconception concerns the importance of education. The = > four year plan message seems to me very clearly to draw the attention of = > Baha'i yound and old to the fact that the Baha'i Faith needs = > well-trained minds. It needs people who understand the Baha'i = > teachings, who are literate, who are well-informed of world events, and = > who have a good, sound, strong education, as much as they can get, in = > accord with their life circumstances, their opportunities, their = > freedom, their abilities and their skills... > ...The second of these three misconceptions that I see resolved in the = > four year plan concerns women. As you know our Writings very clearly = > specify the vital importance we attach to the application and = > realization of the equality of men and women. And as I travel around = > the world I find that from time to time there is a desire and a = > temptation to abridge this commitment in the name of traditional and = > cultural practices..That line of thinking, I believe, is totally = > invalid, and I think the four year plan in several of its messages, the = > message to Africa, the message to the Nations of the Pacific, and the = > Pacific Rim, the message to the Indian subcontinent, the message to west = > and central Asia as well as other places, all indicate that the approach = > of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination to bring about the = > full implementation of the equality of the sexes and if this involves = > change in traditional cultures, so be it. If that's the price we have = > to pay, so be it... > ...The final misconception concerns the role of the United = > States...whether in fact the wonderful things said about the United = > States of America in the Baha'i Writings, said by Abdu'l Baha' and by = > the Guardian, whether they still apply...In paragraph 14 of that message = > [to the North American believers], the House of Justice quotes one of = > the very lavish statements of Shoghi Effendi about the United States = > Baha'is...As far as I'm concerned, the discussion's over.... > ...I now bring my remarks to a conclusion. My purpose has simply been = > to indicate to you what I see to be some of the significance of the four = > year plan. We're obviously living in very dramatic times. Great changes = > are occuring on a daily basis....Thank you.... > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > What is the exact date of this speech? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Has the "temporary" policy of "review" been officially abandoned? In no uncertain terms? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the individual initiative and self-movtivation of Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman and Deborah Buckhorn be recognized and welcomed? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... WILL THE DAMAGE DONE TO THESE PEOPLE BE CORRECTED, CHANGED? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... Will the fundamentalists on the uhj resign or retire? Will "review" definitely be ENDED? Will the witchhunts be rejected at the highest level and the damage rectified? Will the fanatics who perpetrated the inquisitions be PURGED? Will an effective system of CHECK & BALANCES finally be created and implemented? A few WORDS alone do not constitute EVIDENCE.... "Let deeds, not words be your adorning." -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE46i9yzu23LiC1h1jY000070ea@hotmail.com... Here are excerpts from Dr. Kahn's speech on the four year plan. The third principle and second misconception are of the most interest. I included the rest for completeness. HERE IS YOUR LONG-AWAITED BREATH OF FRESH AIR: **************************************************************************** *** ...Dear friends, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with you this afternoon, and to speak about a subject which is of such fascination to me as the four year plan...I obviously do not speak for the UHJ, nor do my views represent necessarily those of the Institution. I speak to you as an individual believer who has, with all of us, had the opportunity to peruse this message and to try to derive insight from it... ...But as I look at it, it comes to my mind that there are three very important principles which underlie it... ...The first of those three is this, I believe that the four year plan represents to an extent not previously apparent the unconventional view of the world which we Baha'i hold...The things Iread in the Baha'i Writings indicate to me that the existence and operation of these spiritual forces is essential to an adequate understanding of the policies of government and social bodies and that the course of world events in the later part of the nineteenth century, during the whole of the twentieth centry and beyond, can only be adequately understood in terms of the operation of spiritual forces. It is this sense that I believe the Baha'i perspective of the world is not simply a little different, not simply somewhat different, not even very different, but radically different from that of the people around us...And I suggest this to be one of the basic principles underlying the four year plan. The second principle I see as basic to the four year plan is its extraordinary emphasis on processes rather than events....As Baha'i we give due weight to events...We do not deny the significance and value of events. But the principle emphasis in out religion seems to me, to be on processes rather than events...This change of orientation, this change of viewpoint, from event to process has many significant implications. It means that we must become sensitive to recognize the significance of small events. If we are to be process oriented we must become sufficiently insightful, sufficiently sensitive to recognize that some small events are most significant in terms of process... The third of the three fundamental principles which I see as underlying the four year plan is that of the concept of change. I mention this because my observation of history is that religions have a lot of problems with change. It is very difficult for a religion or a religious community or organization to handle change. Change is unsettling, change can be disruptive, change can lead to division or polarization, most often under the impact of the development of society, when a religion is subject to the stress of change, its community tends to polarize. One segment of those who are traditional, who are resistant to new ideas, who don't want the settlted condition changed, who say "what's wrong with you? This has worked well for so many decades. Why are you upsetting the apple cart? Why are you changing all this?" And the other segment of those who are so focused on change, so attached to it that they follow superficial and ephemeral trends, destroying the foundations of the religious community, and creating disunity. So change has historically been a difficult problem for religious communities to handle. Where does the Baha'i Faith fit in with this? When we look at the Baha'i teachings we find that the ideal human state which our religion is seeking to create in its followers is that not of a group of obedient automata, not of a set of robots following fixed instructions. The ideal human state that this religion we belong to is that of creativity, of human beings who are innovative, who generate knowledge through invention and insight. Our religion aims at social and individual development. It aims at change. Our religion is focused on creating an ever-advancing civliization... ...I believe that the Baha'i Faith represents to an extent never before seen in human history, represents a religion committed to change. Change is in our bones. Change is intrinsic to the very core of our religion. Change is basic to the purpose and the direction of our religion and you will find that the four year plan calls for change and in many instances for substantial change... ...it is crucial that one derive the insight and wisdom and good judgment to distinguish between those things which should not be changed and should remain constant, and those things which are open to change... ...We need also cultivate that sense of security which is open to appropriate change which proides the necessary degree of flexibility, to the operation of the Faith. We need to avoid rigidity and also avoid the tendency to excessive fluidity... ...And as the years go by and as the perils of political correctness reach out to us, it will become more and more important to us to be very clear in our minds that there are certain things in our religion that are not open to change because they are ordained by the infallible authority in our Cause... ...The point I want to make is that the four year plan lifts the veil, the four year plan lifts a veil, and shows us what kind of community we are aiming to create, and it seems to me it indicates we are aiming to create a religious community which is without precedent in the history of humanity, and which is without parallel in the various communities of mankind. Let me illustrate my point. One of the major emphases in the four year plan is that of individual initiative. You'll find this partiularly addressed in paragraphs 20, 21, and 22, of the four year plan message, the repeated call to the individual members of the rank and file of the Baha'i community to exercise an appropriate degree of individual initiative. Of individuals who are active, who are not passive, who don't just sit there and do whatever they are told to do but who think for themselves, who participate in consultation, who offer their views, who exercise their individual discretion and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. In contrast to so many organizations we see the individual initiative and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. So often organizations see their strength in the fact that they have this captive audience of people who will do whatever they're told, walk to the right, walk to the left, walk straight ahead, stand still, move, run, jump, whatever. We see our strength in individual initiative and activism. We seek to create that kind of community... ...Another element of the vision of a Baha'i community found in the four year plan is the emphasis now placed upon self-motivation. Especially in the development of the local community...It means that we are moving in the direction of a Baha'i community which will not look like a Christian congregation in disguise, it will not consist of a small group of overworked administrators who we call the Local Spiritual Assembly or the National Spiritual Assembly, surrounded by a congregation of passive participants...This new kind of Baha'i community, illuminated by knowledge, diverse interactive participants, individual initiative, self-motivation, this new kind of Baha'i community willnot come into being magically during the four years of the four year plan. We are initiating a process...We have set our course in a new and important direction which may take us many decades to achieve but will lead us to a Baha'i community like nothing else we have ever seen. We will stand in this way in contrast to the society around us, a society distinguished more and more by alienation and passivity, lacking aspiration or vision, suspicious of others, without bonds of trust and community... ...So before I conclude my remarks I want to refer to these three misconceptions and to indicate how I see the four year plan as having dealt with them and hopefully have put them to rest.... ...The first misconception concerns the importance of education. The four year plan message seems to me very clearly to draw the attention of Baha'i yound and old to the fact that the Baha'i Faith needs well-trained minds. It needs people who understand the Baha'i teachings, who are literate, who are well-informed of world events, and who have a good, sound, strong education, as much as they can get, in accord with their life circumstances, their opportunities, their freedom, their abilities and their skills... ...The second of these three misconceptions that I see resolved in the four year plan concerns women. As you know our Writings very clearly specify the vital importance we attach to the application and realization of the equality of men and women. And as I travel around the world I find that from time to time there is a desire and a temptation to abridge this commitment in the name of traditional and cultural practices..That line of thinking, I believe, is totally invalid, and I think the four year plan in several of its messages, the message to Africa, the message to the Nations of the Pacific, and the Pacific Rim, the message to the Indian subcontinent, the message to west and central Asia as well as other places, all indicate that the approach of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination to bring about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes and if this involves change in traditional cultures, so be it. If that's the price we have to pay, so be it... ...The final misconception concerns the role of the United States...whether in fact the wonderful things said about the United States of America in the Baha'i Writings, said by Abdu'l Baha' and by the Guardian, whether they still apply...In paragraph 14 of that message [to the North American believers], the House of Justice quotes one of the very lavish statements of Shoghi Effendi about the United States Baha'is...As far as I'm concerned, the discussion's over.... ...I now bring my remarks to a conclusion. My purpose has simply been to indicate to you what I see to be some of the significance of the four year plan. We're obviously living in very dramatic times. Great changes are occuring on a daily basis....Thank you.... ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:05 AM Subject: HERE IS YOUR LONG-AWAITED BREATH OF FRESH AIR Date, please. It's obviously nothing recent nor prevented in any way whatsoever the abuse against Deborah Buchhorn and many others.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE46i9yzu23LiC1h1jY000070ea@hotmail.com... Here are excerpts from Dr. Kahn's speech on the four year plan. The third principle and second misconception are of the most interest. I included the rest for completeness. HERE IS YOUR LONG-AWAITED BREATH OF FRESH AIR: **************************************************************************** *** ...Dear friends, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to meet with you this afternoon, and to speak about a subject which is of such fascination to me as the four year plan...I obviously do not speak for the UHJ, nor do my views represent necessarily those of the Institution. I speak to you as an individual believer who has, with all of us, had the opportunity to peruse this message and to try to derive insight from it... ...But as I look at it, it comes to my mind that there are three very important principles which underlie it... ...The first of those three is this, I believe that the four year plan represents to an extent not previously apparent the unconventional view of the world which we Baha'i hold...The things Iread in the Baha'i Writings indicate to me that the existence and operation of these spiritual forces is essential to an adequate understanding of the policies of government and social bodies and that the course of world events in the later part of the nineteenth century, during the whole of the twentieth centry and beyond, can only be adequately understood in terms of the operation of spiritual forces. It is this sense that I believe the Baha'i perspective of the world is not simply a little different, not simply somewhat different, not even very different, but radically different from that of the people around us...And I suggest this to be one of the basic principles underlying the four year plan. The second principle I see as basic to the four year plan is its extraordinary emphasis on processes rather than events....As Baha'i we give due weight to events...We do not deny the significance and value of events. But the principle emphasis in out religion seems to me, to be on processes rather than events...This change of orientation, this change of viewpoint, from event to process has many significant implications. It means that we must become sensitive to recognize the significance of small events. If we are to be process oriented we must become sufficiently insightful, sufficiently sensitive to recognize that some small events are most significant in terms of process... The third of the three fundamental principles which I see as underlying the four year plan is that of the concept of change. I mention this because my observation of history is that religions have a lot of problems with change. It is very difficult for a religion or a religious community or organization to handle change. Change is unsettling, change can be disruptive, change can lead to division or polarization, most often under the impact of the development of society, when a religion is subject to the stress of change, its community tends to polarize. One segment of those who are traditional, who are resistant to new ideas, who don't want the settlted condition changed, who say "what's wrong with you? This has worked well for so many decades. Why are you upsetting the apple cart? Why are you changing all this?" And the other segment of those who are so focused on change, so attached to it that they follow superficial and ephemeral trends, destroying the foundations of the religious community, and creating disunity. So change has historically been a difficult problem for religious communities to handle. Where does the Baha'i Faith fit in with this? When we look at the Baha'i teachings we find that the ideal human state which our religion is seeking to create in its followers is that not of a group of obedient automata, not of a set of robots following fixed instructions. The ideal human state that this religion we belong to is that of creativity, of human beings who are innovative, who generate knowledge through invention and insight. Our religion aims at social and individual development. It aims at change. Our religion is focused on creating an ever-advancing civliization... ...I believe that the Baha'i Faith represents to an extent never before seen in human history, represents a religion committed to change. Change is in our bones. Change is intrinsic to the very core of our religion. Change is basic to the purpose and the direction of our religion and you will find that the four year plan calls for change and in many instances for substantial change... ...it is crucial that one derive the insight and wisdom and good judgment to distinguish between those things which should not be changed and should remain constant, and those things which are open to change... ...We need also cultivate that sense of security which is open to appropriate change which proides the necessary degree of flexibility, to the operation of the Faith. We need to avoid rigidity and also avoid the tendency to excessive fluidity... ...And as the years go by and as the perils of political correctness reach out to us, it will become more and more important to us to be very clear in our minds that there are certain things in our religion that are not open to change because they are ordained by the infallible authority in our Cause... ...The point I want to make is that the four year plan lifts the veil, the four year plan lifts a veil, and shows us what kind of community we are aiming to create, and it seems to me it indicates we are aiming to create a religious community which is without precedent in the history of humanity, and which is without parallel in the various communities of mankind. Let me illustrate my point. One of the major emphases in the four year plan is that of individual initiative. You'll find this partiularly addressed in paragraphs 20, 21, and 22, of the four year plan message, the repeated call to the individual members of the rank and file of the Baha'i community to exercise an appropriate degree of individual initiative. Of individuals who are active, who are not passive, who don't just sit there and do whatever they are told to do but who think for themselves, who participate in consultation, who offer their views, who exercise their individual discretion and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. In contrast to so many organizations we see the individual initiative and activism as a source of strength rather than weakness. So often organizations see their strength in the fact that they have this captive audience of people who will do whatever they're told, walk to the right, walk to the left, walk straight ahead, stand still, move, run, jump, whatever. We see our strength in individual initiative and activism. We seek to create that kind of community... ...Another element of the vision of a Baha'i community found in the four year plan is the emphasis now placed upon self-motivation. Especially in the development of the local community...It means that we are moving in the direction of a Baha'i community which will not look like a Christian congregation in disguise, it will not consist of a small group of overworked administrators who we call the Local Spiritual Assembly or the National Spiritual Assembly, surrounded by a congregation of passive participants...This new kind of Baha'i community, illuminated by knowledge, diverse interactive participants, individual initiative, self-motivation, this new kind of Baha'i community willnot come into being magically during the four years of the four year plan. We are initiating a process...We have set our course in a new and important direction which may take us many decades to achieve but will lead us to a Baha'i community like nothing else we have ever seen. We will stand in this way in contrast to the society around us, a society distinguished more and more by alienation and passivity, lacking aspiration or vision, suspicious of others, without bonds of trust and community... ...So before I conclude my remarks I want to refer to these three misconceptions and to indicate how I see the four year plan as having dealt with them and hopefully have put them to rest.... ...The first misconception concerns the importance of education. The four year plan message seems to me very clearly to draw the attention of Baha'i yound and old to the fact that the Baha'i Faith needs well-trained minds. It needs people who understand the Baha'i teachings, who are literate, who are well-informed of world events, and who have a good, sound, strong education, as much as they can get, in accord with their life circumstances, their opportunities, their freedom, their abilities and their skills... ...The second of these three misconceptions that I see resolved in the four year plan concerns women. As you know our Writings very clearly specify the vital importance we attach to the application and realization of the equality of men and women. And as I travel around the world I find that from time to time there is a desire and a temptation to abridge this commitment in the name of traditional and cultural practices..That line of thinking, I believe, is totally invalid, and I think the four year plan in several of its messages, the message to Africa, the message to the Nations of the Pacific, and the Pacific Rim, the message to the Indian subcontinent, the message to west and central Asia as well as other places, all indicate that the approach of the Faith is that of uncompromising determination to bring about the full implementation of the equality of the sexes and if this involves change in traditional cultures, so be it. If that's the price we have to pay, so be it... ...The final misconception concerns the role of the United States...whether in fact the wonderful things said about the United States of America in the Baha'i Writings, said by Abdu'l Baha' and by the Guardian, whether they still apply...In paragraph 14 of that message [to the North American believers], the House of Justice quotes one of the very lavish statements of Shoghi Effendi about the United States Baha'is...As far as I'm concerned, the discussion's over.... ...I now bring my remarks to a conclusion. My purpose has simply been to indicate to you what I see to be some of the significance of the four year plan. We're obviously living in very dramatic times. Great changes are occuring on a daily basis....Thank you.... ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Selections from the baha'i Writings FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Friend" wrote in message news:elZR6.7747$gg2.72230@news1.mts.net... > MUHAMMAD > > Now we come to Muhammad. Americans and Europeans have heard a number of > stories about the Prophet which they have thought to be true, although the > narrators were either ignorant or antagonistic: most of them were clergy; > others were ignorant Muslims who repeated unfounded traditions about > Muhammad which they ignorantly believed to be to His praise. > > Thus some benighted Muslims made His polygamy the pivot of their praises and > held it to be a wonder, regarding it as a miracle; and European historians, > for the most part, rely on the tales of these ignorant people. > > For example, a foolish man said to a clergyman that the true proof of > greatness is bravery and the shedding of blood, and that in one day on the > field of battle a follower of Muhammad had cut off the heads of one hundred > men! This misled the clergyman to infer that killing is considered the way > to prove one's faith to Muhammad, while this is merely imaginary. The > military expeditions of Muhammad, on the contrary, were always defensive > actions: a proof of this is that during thirteen years, in Mecca, He and His > followers endured the most violent persecutions. At this period they were > the target for the arrows of hatred: some of His companions were killed and > their property confiscated; others fled to foreign lands. Muhammad Himself, > after the most extreme persecutions by the Qurayshites, who finally resolved > to kill Him, fled to Medina in the middle of the night. Yet even then His > enemies did not cease their persecutions, but pursued Him to Medina, and > His disciples even to Abyssinia. > > These Arab tribes were in the lowest depths of savagery and barbarism, and > in comparison with them the savages of Africa and wild Indians of America > were as advanced as a Plato. The savages of America do not bury their > children alive as these Arabs did their daughters, glorying in it as being > an honorable thing to do. Thus many of the men would threaten their wives, > saying, "If a daughter is born to you, I will kill you." Even down to the > present time the Arabs dread having daughters. Further, a man was permitted > to take a thousand women, and most husbands had more than ten wives in their > household. When these tribes made war, the one which was victorious would > take the women and children of the vanquished tribe captive and treat them > as slaves. > > When a man who had ten wives died, the sons of these women rushed at each > other's mothers; and if one of the sons threw his mantle over the head of > his father's wife and cried out, "This woman is my lawful property," at once > the unfortunate woman became his prisoner and slave. He could do whatever he > wished with her. He could kill her, imprison her in a well, or beat, curse > and torture her until death released her. According to the Arab habits and > customs, he was her master. It is evident that malignity, jealousy, hatred > and enmity must have existed between the wives and children of a household, > and it is, therefore, needless to enlarge upon the subject. Again, consider > what was the condition and life of these oppressed women! Moreover, the > means by which these Arab tribes lived consisted in pillage and robbery, so > that they were perpetually engaged in fighting and war, killing one another, > plundering and devastating each other's property, > and capturing women and children, whom they would sell to strangers. How > often it happened that the daughters and sons of a prince, who spent their > day in comfort and luxury, found themselves, when night fell, reduced to > shame, poverty and captivity. Yesterday they were princes, today they are > captives; yesterday they were great ladies, today they are slaves. > > Muhammad received the Divine Revelation among these tribes, and after > enduring thirteen years of persecution from them, He fled. But this people > did not cease to oppress; they united to exterminate Him and all His > followers. It was under such circumstances that Muhammad was forced to take > up arms. This is the truth: we are not bigoted and do not wish to defend > Him, but we are just, and we say what is just. Look at it with justice. If > Christ Himself had been placed in such circumstances among such tyrannical > and barbarous tribes, and if for thirteen years He with His disciples had > endured all these trials with patience, culminating in flight from His > native land--if in spite of this these lawless tribes continued to pursue > Him, to slaughter the men, to pillage their property, and to capture their > women and children--what would have been Christ's conduct with regard to > them? If this oppression had fallen only upon Himself, He would have > forgiven them, and such an act of forgiveness would have been most > praiseworthy; but if He had seen that these cruel and bloodthirsty murderers > wished to kill, to pillage and to injure all these oppressed ones, and to > take captive the women and children, it is certain that He would have > protected them and would have resisted the tyrants. What objection, then, > can be taken to Muhammad's action? Is it this, that He did not, with His > followers, and their women and children, submit to these savage tribes? To > free these tribes from their bloodthirstiness was the greatest kindness, and > to coerce and restrain them was > a true mercy. They were like a man holding in his hand a cup of poison, > which, when about to drink, a friend breaks and thus saves him. If Christ > had been placed in similar circumstances, it is certain that with a > conquering power He would have delivered the men, women and children from > the claws of these bloodthirsty wolves. > > Muhammad never fought against the Christians; on the contrary, He treated > them kindly and gave them perfect freedom. A community of Christian people > lived at Najrán and were under His care and protection. Muhammad said, "If > anyone infringes their rights, I Myself will be his enemy, and in the > presence of God I will bring a charge against him." In the edicts which He > promulgated it is clearly stated that the lives, properties and honor of the > Christians and Jews are under the protection of God; and that if a > Muhammadan married a Christian woman, the husband must not prevent her from > going to church, nor oblige her to veil herself; and that if she died, he > must place her remains in the care of the Christian clergy. Should the > Christians desire to build a church, Islám ought to help them. In case of > war between Islám and her enemies, the Christians should be exempted from > the obligation of fighting, unless they desired of their own free will to do > so in defense of Islám, because they were under its protection. But as a > compensation for this immunity, they should pay yearly a small sum of money. > In short, there are seven detailed edicts on these subjects, some copies of > which are still extant at Jerusalem. This is an established fact and is not > dependent on my affirmation. The edict of the second Caliph still exists in > the custody of the orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, and of this there is no > doubt. > > Nevertheless, after a certain time, and through the > transgression of both the Muhammadans and the Christians, hatred and enmity > arose between them. Beyond this fact, all the narrations of the Muslims, > Christians and others are simply fabrications, which have their origin in > fanaticism, or ignorance, or emanate from intense hostility. > > For example, the Muslims say that Muhammad cleft the moon, and that it fell > on the mountain of Mecca: they think that the moon is a small body which > Muhammad divided into two parts and threw one part on this mountain, and the > other part on another mountain. > > Such stories are pure fanaticism. Also the traditions which the clergy > quote, and the incidents with which they find fault, are all exaggerated, if > not entirely without foundation. > > Briefly, Muhammad appeared in the desert of Hijáz in the Arabian Peninsula, > which was a desolate, sterile wilderness, sandy and uninhabited. Some parts, > like Mecca and Medina, are extremely hot; the people are nomads with the > manners and customs of the dwellers in the desert, and are entirely > destitute of education and science. Muhammad Himself was illiterate, and the > Qur'án was originally written upon the bladebones of sheep, or on palm > leaves. These details indicate the condition of the people to whom Muhammad > was sent. The first question which He put to them was, "Why do you not > accept the Pentateuch and the Gospel, and why do you not believe in Christ > and in Moses?" This saying presented difficulties to them, and they argued, > "Our forefathers did not believe in the Pentateuch and the Gospel; tell us, > why was this?" He answered, "They were misled; you ought to reject those > who do not believe in the Pentateuch and the Gospel, even though they are > your fathers and your ancestors." > > In such a country, and amidst such barbarous tribes, an illiterate Man > produced a book in which, in a perfect and eloquent style, He explained the > divine attributes and > perfections, the prophethood of the Messengers of God, the divine laws, and > some scientific facts. > > Thus, you know that before the observations of modern times--that is to say, > during the first centuries and down to the fifteenth century of the > Christian era--all the mathematicians of the world agreed that the earth was > the center of the universe, and that the sun moved. The famous astronomer > who was the protagonist of the new theory discovered the movement of the > earth and the immobility of the sun. Until his time all the astronomers and > philosophers of the world followed the Ptolemaic system, and whoever said > anything against it was considered ignorant. Though Pythagoras, and Plato > during the latter part of his life, adopted the theory that the annual > movement of the sun around the zodiac does not proceed from the sun, but > rather from the movement of the earth around the sun, this theory had been > entirely forgotten, and the Ptolemaic system was accepted by all > mathematicians. But there are some verses revealed in the Qur'án contrary to > the theory of the Ptolemaic system. One of them is "The sun moves in a fixed > place," which shows the fixity of the sun, and its movement around an axis. > Again, in another verse, "And each star moves in its own heaven." Thus is > explained the movement of the sun, of the moon, of the earth, and of other > bodies. When the Qur'án appeared, all the mathematicians ridiculed these > statements and attributed the theory to ignorance. Even the doctors of > Islám, when they saw that these verses were contrary to the accepted > Ptolemaic system, were obliged to explain them away. > > It was not until after the fifteenth century of the Christian era, nearly > nine hundred years after Muhammad, that a famous astronomer made new > observations and important discoveries by the aid of the telescope, which he > had > invented. The rotation of the earth, the fixity of the sun, and also its > movement around an axis, were discovered. It became evident that the verses > of the Qur'án agreed with existing facts, and that the Ptolemaic system was > imaginary. > > In short, many Oriental peoples have been reared for thirteen centuries > under the shadow of the religion of Muhammad. During the Middle Ages, while > Europe was in the lowest depths of barbarism, the Arab peoples were superior > to the other nations of the earth in learning, in the arts, mathematics, > civilization, government and other sciences. The Enlightener and Educator of > these Arab tribes, and the Founder of the civilization and perfections of > humanity among these different races, was an illiterate Man, Muhammad. Was > this illustrious Man a thorough Educator or not? A just judgment is > necessary. > > -- `Abdu'l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 6:01 AM Subject: Re: Re-post of clarification & more Please post the link where the Complaint is available online. I have been thinking of calling the county to verify the filing of the Complaint. A phone number would help. A little trip to Albuquerque in July, despite the desert heat that time of year, might be enjoyable.... "Fraud and abuse in the Faith will be able to go unchecked." That's the bahai faith I've known for over twenty-five years.... Can't imagine any significant change taking place, certainly no EVIDENCE to support those who hope for reformation.... Pity the Nine Frauds of Carmel, who have always opposed real checks and balances, aren't named in the lawsuit.... It's major flaw. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE69U9T3TGJ2TUSzbAU000008e0@hotmail.com... First, I want to re-post the clarification that I made, to ensure that it is very clearly seen: "Ms. Buchhorn informed me that, regarding the "take positive action" paraphrase, the actual quotation is: "pursue positive lines of action that would assist my community to overcome their deficiencies." This is in response to some deficiencies that she reported to the UHJ. It was our interpretation that led us to file suit." "She has been a Baha'i for 26 years." "And contrary to my earlier understanding, it is the role of the LSA is to guide, but to guide according to the writings, not out of their own innate sense of right and wrong." Second, regarding all of this discussion and argument about the case: I am touched, moved and inspired by the zeal with which you all are exercising the independent investigation of the truth. Please be advised that the named plaintiff certified the Complaint and I verified it (The Complaint is available on-line and includes the case number. You may call the court clerk to order an official copy.). If upon receiving the evidence the court finds that the certification and verification were groundless or in bad faith, which I know it will not, then there are very serious consequences for us. I personally would be subject to disbarment and very heavy fines. You would read about it in the news. The case is now in the hands of the court. It is in the best interests of both the plaintiffs and the defendants for the court rather than you to decide this case, because the court is accountable for their procedures --- and you are not accountable for yours. These procedures provide enormous protection for the defendants. For example, the LSA has moved to dismiss the Complaint, and they will have their day in court on July 18, which you are entitled to attend. Some of you have already decided that this case never should have been filed. You are entitled to your opinion. But neither the LSA nor the NSA has stated that Baha'i law was violated by filing this Complaint. The NSA stated that they were saddened by the Demand Letter, but they never stated that it was inappropriate to bring this lawsuit. The UHJ has not intervened. That is where things stand. That is where your Baha'i Faith stands. If you suspend judgment for a moment and consider that the plaintiffs really just might have a genuine case, that there really was fraud and abuse and the appeals system really is inadequately handled, that the NSA passed over several years of opportunities, consider what damage would be done by stopping this case: fraud and abuse in the Faith will be able to go unchecked. ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 6:17 AM To: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: "Silence like a cancer grows....." <> ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:02 AM To: LDRSLFSTJerry@aol.com; LDRSLFSTMgr@aol.com; TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Lawsuits against bahai for FRAUD & LIBEL <> The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:47 AM Subject: Re: all religions' prophecy about the Baha'i Faith New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Friend" wrote in message news:vuWS6.9809$gg2.84106@news1.mts.net... > For those friends of any religious background who are interested about > prophecies , this is a good site. > > https://www.bahaindex.com/prophecy_f.html > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:49 AM Subject: Re: bahai - GET THE HELL OUT OF IRAN New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "La6red9nec" wrote in message news:20010605114630.11925.00001709@ng-fc1.aol.com... > >Subject: Re: bahai - GET THE HELL OUT OF IRAN > >From: "Vahe" vahekhachaturian@telocity.com > >Date: 6/5/01 5:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time > >Message-id: > > > >"La6red9nec" wrote in message > >news:20010604230326.11925.00000882@ng-fo1.aol.com... > >> >Subject: Re: bahai - GET THE HELL OUT OF IRAN > >> >From: NoBullMan ( NobleMan in transit ) nospam@newsranger.com > >> >Date: 6/4/01 4:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time > >> >Message-id: > >> > > >> >Larry , > >> > > >> >Please make yourself clear, your real intention is : Baha'i, Kalimi, > >Masihi, > >> >Zartoshti, Sunni, Everyone but Shiite out of Iran . > >> > > >> > >> Well I won't cry or beg them to come back if this was to happen. > >> > >> > >> > >May God grant you your wishes. (And the U.S. grant them visas!). > > > >Vahe > > > > > > > Amen. > > > ---------- From: Ruletherod@aol.com[SMTP:Ruletherod@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:53 AM To: FG@home.com Subject: Re: "Silence like a cancer grows....." Subj: Re: "Silence like a cancer grows....." Date: 6/5/01 5:31:39 AM Mountain Daylight Time From: FG@home.com (Fred Glaysher) To: ruletherod@aol.com (Ruletherod) >filtered when not sniped with quotes about the "pollution" of men's hearts by pompous, hypocritical Hands of the Cause...< Rule, Are you saying you believe our posts are "filtered" so that no one else can read them but they seem to us to be available online? Fred Hi, Fred! No...the "fundamentalists" representing *the Baha'i Covenant cult,* as I call it, are individually filtering us. Our posts are seen by anyone else with less reason to be prejudiced. I personally don't see the fundamentalists as representing the truth of anything. They're the corruption of everything good that the Baha'i Faith once stood for (to me). The intelligent online people aren't attracted to conflicts for long ...so our readers at the board are probably very few at certain times ;-) But I'm glad you're posting there in your free time, whatever the case may be. --Rule ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:40 AM Subject: Re: I have a question about Bahai... Be sure to see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Greg Miller" wrote in message news:IeXT6.67351$t12.5338037@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > What exactly is Bahai? What is Bahai's beliefs? What does Bahai do? Will > someone please answer my questions..... > > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:54 AM To: LDRSLFSTMgr@aol.com Cc: TOSGeneral@aol.com; FG@home.com Subject: Re: Board Posting a Bahai Faith The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm Subj: Board Posting a Bahai Faith Date: 6/6/2001 11:34:38 PM Eastern Standard Time From: LDRS LFST Shahid To: Glayshf CC: LDRS LFST Mgr, LDRS LFST Jerry - Dear Member, Regarding your messages posted at various folders Lifestyle>Spirituality> Baha'i Message Board To avoid further disruption to the message board, your posts have been removed. Please review Keyword: TOS and the Spirituality Message Board Standards for more information on what is appropriate in our community. Depending on the severity of the disruption, a report may have been submitted to AOL's Community Action Team for further review. Thanks for taking the time to read this letter. Please note, I cannot respond to replies. Therefore, if you have any comments or questions please send mail to TOSGeneral. Regards, LDRS LFST Shahid Volunteer Message Board Leader Baha'i Message Board Subject: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 Date: 6/6/01 7:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: Glayshf Message-id: <20010606072110.11918.00001393@ng-fo1.aol.com> New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT COUNTY OF BERNALILLO STATE OF NEW MEXICO DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) and for MINORITY ) MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) No. CV 2001-01978 ) ) TRUSTEES OF THE SPIRITUAL ) ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í S OF ) ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, and ) THE SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE ) BAHÁ'Í'S OF ALBUQUERQUE, ) NEW MEXICO, a non-profit ) corporation, and the ) NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY ) OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF THE ) UNITED STATES, ) an Illinois Corporation, ) ) Defendants. ) VERIFIED COMPLAINT FOR FRAUD, LIBEL, BREACH OF CORPORATE DUTIES, AND DECLARATORY AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF COMES NOW Plaintiffs by and through their attorney of record, Yorgos D. Marinakis, and for their Complaint states as follows: INTRODUCTION 1. Plaintiffs file this shareholder or member derivative suit against: - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly, or LSA), - their Trustees, and - the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly, or NSA), with whom the Local Spiritual Assembly and itsTrustees have privity. 2. Plaintiffs allege that Trustees breached their duties as corporate officers. 3. Plaintiffs allege that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of deciding appeals owed to Plaintiffs. 4. Plaintiffs allege that the literature review policies of the Local Spiritual Assembly and the National Spiritual Assembly, which lie in privity, unlawfully prevent shareholders from their right to communicate with other shareholders. 5. Plaintiffs allege that Defendants failed to execute their duties under their corporate by-laws. PARTIES 6. Named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn was a shareholder or member of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, at the time of the incidents stated in this Complaint, and she continues to be a member. 7. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Local Spiritual Assembly) is a New Mexico non-profit corporation. Shareholder-members may appeal decisions by the Local Spiritual Assembly to the National Spiritual Assembly. 8. The Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico (Trustees) individually reside in Bernalillo County, New Mexico, as a condition of their Trusteeship. Trustees are Kambiz Victory, Ok-Sun and John McHenry, Manijeh Kavelin, Nelson Sapad, Harry and Sondra Day, Owen Creightney, and Carol Caldwell. Jenny Beery was a Trustee during the time of many of these incidents. 9. The Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the United States (National Spiritual Assembly) is incorporated in and has its principal place of business in Illinois. FACTS 10. The Bahá'í have no clergy. Instead, each community in the Bahá'í Faith annually elects nine Trustees or a "Local Spiritual Assembly," which acts as an agent or subsidiary of the National Spiritual Assembly. Each National Spiritual Assembly answers to the supreme Bahá'í body, The Universal House of Justice. The Universal House of Justice established the Continental Board of Counsellors (sic) to assist them, and the Countinental Board of Counsellors further has the Auxiliary Board to assist them. 11. In the particular situation between the Trustees of the Spiritual Assembly of Bahá'ís of Albuquerque, New Mexico, Defendants Trustees controlled what member activities Plaintiffs were able to engage in and what members they were able to talk to. They stopped them from interacting with friends at member events. They stopped Plaintiffs from serving on committees and stopped their individual activities for personal reasons. They made all the decisions relating to Plaintiffs' membership-related activities. They told named Plaintiff that opinions she may personally hold were bad and implicitly threatened to curtail her presence at member functions. They acted as if the abuse were no big deal, that it was Plaintiff's fault, and denied doing it. They failed to act when one member was physically threatened and shoved by another member. 12. Although Plaintiffs have consistently complied with Defendant Trustees' demands, they have also consistently filed complaints against them with the National and International Bahá'í authorities. This has enraged the Defendant Trustees. 13. Defendant Trustees have never made specific accusations or informed Plaintiffs of wrongdoing, other than vague statements such as "you have issues with the Spiritual Assembly." 14. Therefore, deep-seated animosities and distrust have arisen between Plaintiffs and the Trustees, which are incapable of resolution and thereby present an irreconcilable barrier to the ability of the corporation to function as is. 15. Plaintiffs' reasonable expectations that they would be able to participate in the management and activities of their corporation, as minority shareholders, have been thwarted since at least 1995. 16. Article IV of the LSA by-laws provides that the LSA shall compose differences and disagreements among members of the community. Article VII, section 9 of the NSA by-laws provides that any member of a Bahá'í community may appeal from a decision of his LSA to the NSA. Failure to Allow Inspection of Books and Records 17. The books and records of the corporation have been maintained in an inaccurate and inequitable manner. 18. The year 2000 annual meeting showed a 10%, $10,000 discrepancy in the corporate books. 19. In a letter dated September 3, 2000, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn informed the Local Spiritual Assembly that she desired to inspect their financial books. Defendants refused. 20. Following mailing of the demand letter, the LSA offered to allow named Plaintiff to inspect the books and records, but under conditions that the Plaintiff deemed in bad faith. Fraudulent Oppression and Prevention of Communications between Shareholders 21. On April 19, 1998, Defendant Trustees ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to refrain from discussing her "issues" with anyone but Auxiliary Board member Brent Poirier and the Local Spiritual Assembly. Plaintiff complied and appealed to Brent Poirier and the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Defendant LSA has wrapped many of their dealings with members in the cloak of secrecy in a like manner. Electioneering 22. At the Annual Meeting Feast of 1999, Defendant Trustees fraudulently rigged the election of Trustee Nelson Sapad by calling for applause for him three times prior to an election of corporate officers. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 23. Defendant Trustees or their agents fraudulently rigged the election of Harry and Sondra Day, by introducing them and calling for applause moments before an election of corporate officers. 24. Trustees do not ensure secret balloting at the Annual Meeting Feast. The usual practice is not to use a ballot box, but for members to lay their ballots on a plate or in a basket in plain sight of the election tellers. Ms. Buchhorn appealed to Brent Poirier on at least one election. Mr. Poirier responded by handling the collection basket himself. 25. In the member newsletter and prior to the annual election and during the Annual Meeting Feast, Trustees have used scriptural quotes to draw attention to persons serving on certain committees. Fraudulent and Oppressive Behavior Relating to the TV Show "Spiritual Reality" 26. Plaintiffs conceptualized and produced a TV show named "Spiritual Reality." After 100 showings, during which Defendant Trustees only complimented Plaintiffs, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, mandated major changes in the show. Plaintiffs complied and appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 27. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiffs to "temporarily postpone" their television show, "Spiritual Reality." Plaintiff complied, and Defendants never specifically informed Plaintiffs what they had done to precipitate the arbitrary and capricious termination. The effect of this order, namely the termination of the TV show, violated the right of shareholders to communicate with other shareholders. 28. Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences stated that the reasons for termination would be fully discussed at a later meeting, at which meeting those reasons were never discussed. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory, employee of channel 41, knew or should have known that a television program cannot be "temporarily postponed." Plaintiffs appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 29. Defendant Kambiz Victory, a Trustee, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, told named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn in regards to her television show that "Your teaching can have no effect because you are not in unity with the Spiritual Assembly." Defendant knew that Ms. Buchhorn's television show brought in 15% of the information requests during an unrelated major regional advertising campaign by Defendants. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. 30. Defendant Trustees fraudulently and under false pretences set-up Plaintiffs to a "confession" of their animosity towards Defendant Trustees. Named Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly, who took no action. Other Oppression 31. As an act of individual initiative, named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn organized a Bahá'í parade float for several years for the New Mexico State Fair Parade. In 2000, Defendant Trustees convened a task force to organize the parade float for that year. On August 22, 2000, approximately 19 days before the parade, Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, instructed Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to terminate her parade float activities. A false reason for this termination was published in the membership newsletter by Defendant Trustees, causing Plaintiff embarrassment. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 32. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to receive instruction on the Bahá'í Covenant. Plaintiff complied and attended that "instruction," which in fact consisted of three (3) hours of interrogation by Trustee Owen Creightney, and John and Ok-Sun McHenry. It became apparent at this meeting that Trustee Creightney had lied to the Trustees in order to oppress named Plaintiff. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 33. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, ordered named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn to resign from the Bahá'í gospel choir. Plaintiff complied, and Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to the reason for that termination. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 34. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, undermined named Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn's Saturday Night Coffee House and in effect stopped her Coffee House. Defendant never informed Plaintiff as to these circumstances. Plaintiff appealed to the National Spiritual Assembly and Brent Poirier, who took no action. 35. Defendant Trustees, fraudulently and with intent to oppress, have ordered numerous Bahá'ís to shun Plaintiff Deborah Buchhorn. 36. Defendant Trustee Kambiz Victory told a Plaintiff "I am the voice of God in this community." Libel 37. Defendant Trustees knowingly published false and defamatory information about Plaintiffs in the Albuquerque Bahá'í newsletter, specifically relating to the parade banner. Unlawful Prevention of Communication between Shareholders 38. Defendant National Spiritual Assembly has the policy that Local Spiritual Assemblies are responsible for reviewing pamphlets and newsletters and materials that mention the Faith such as songs, play scripts, souvenir items, and greeting cards, intended for publication or distribution within their communities, whereas the National Spiritual Assembly is responsible for review of those same materials intended for nationwide publication. CAUSES OF ACTION Count I 39. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 40. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly acted and continue to act fraudulently towards the Plaintiffs. 41. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count II 42. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 43. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly libeled the named Plaintiff. 44. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count III 45. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 46. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in good faith, which failure constitutes fraud. 47. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IV 48. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporates all previous paragraphs. 49. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act with the care an ordinary prudent person in like position would exercise under similar circumstances, which failure constitute fraud.50. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count V 51. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 52. The Trustees of the Local Spiritual Assembly have repeatedly failed to act and continue to fail to act in a manner they reasonably believe to be in the best interests of the corporation and its members, which failure constitutes fraud. 53. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VI 54. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 55. The Trustees have repeatedly failed their duty to compose differences and disagreements with themselves and the members, in violation of their by-laws, which failure constitutes fraud. 56. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VII 57. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 58. The National Spiritual Assembly has repeatedly failed their duty to hear appeals from Plaintiffs, in violation of their by-laws. 59. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count VIII 60. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 61. The literature review policies of the National and Local Spiritual Assemblies violate the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 62. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. Count IX 63. Plaintiffs reallege and incorporate all previous paragraphs. 64. The practice of the Local Spiritual Assembly to direct members not to speak about their dealings with the LSA with other corporate members violates the rights of corporate members to communicate with other corporate members. 65. Plaintiffs have suffered emotional damages thereby. JUDICIAL RELIEF WHEREFORE, for these reasons, Plaintiffs request that this Court: 1. Declare that the Trustees acted fraudulently towards Plaintiffs; 2. Declare that Trustees libeled Plaintiffs; 3. Declare that the Trustees breached their corporate duties towardsPlaintiffs; 4. Remove the Trustees from their positions and enjoin them from serving in official Bahá'ís capacities for nineteen (19) years; 5. Remove the LSA Directors who are also Trustees; 6. Declare that the Local Spiritual Assembly violated members' rights to inspect corporate books and records; 7. Compel Defendant LSA to retain an independent certified public accountant to audit the books for the last two years; 8. Declare that Defendant LSA violated their corporate by-laws by failing to compose differences and disagreements among members of the community; 6. Declare that the National Spiritual Assembly breached their duty of hearing Plaintiffs' appeals; 7. Declare that the literature review policies of the Bahá'ís violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 8. Enjoin Defendants National Spiritual Assembly and Local Spiritual Assembly from enforcing their literature review policy; 9. Declare that the secrecy practices of the Local Spiritual Assembly violate United States common law as preventing corporate members from communicating with other corporate members; 10. Enjoin Defendant Local Spiritual Assembly from continuing their secrecy practices; 11. Award compensatory damages from Defendants to Plaintiffs; 12. Award attorney's fees and costs to Plaintiffs; 13. Any other relief this Court deems appropriate. Respectfully submitted, ___________________________ Yorgos D. Marinakis Attorney for Plaintiffs P.O. Box 45923 Rio Rancho, NM 87174 505-459-4664 877-430-9550 (fax) Named Plaintiff's Verification STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss. COUNTY OF BERNALILLO) COMES NOW Deborah Buchhorn, and being duly sworn, states as follows: 1. I have read and understood the contents of this Complaint. 2. I have personal knowledge of the facts stated herein. 3. I attest to and verify their truth and accuracy.__________________________ DEBORAH BUCHHORN SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED before me this __ day of ______, 2001. ________________________ Notary Public My Commission Expires: -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 7:58 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Terms of Service The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved > with > AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from > people > whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to > fundamentalist sites and events.... > > A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and > conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. > -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm In a message dated 6/6/2001 11:37:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, TOSBoards2 writes: > Subj:Terms of Service > Date:6/6/2001 11:37:42 PM Eastern Standard Time > From:TOSBoards2 > To:Glayshf > > > > Dear Member, > > America Online has a Terms of Service agreement which provides community > guidelines for online conduct. I need to let you know that we received a > report regarding a violation of those guidelines on one of our Message > Boards. Here is the information I have placed on the account regarding > this incident: > > Subj: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL > 3/2/2001 > Date: 06 Jun 2001 07:21:10 EDT > From: glayshf@aol.com > Message-ID: <20010606072110.11918.00001393@ng-fo1.aol.com> > Author: Mon CD > Violation clip:New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & > LIBEL 3/2/2001 > > > SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT > COUNTY OF BERNALILLO > STATE OF NEW MEXICO > > DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) > and for MINORITY ) > MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) > ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ) > ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) > ) > Plaintiffs, ) > ) > Our Terms of Service agreement, which was presented when you opened your > AOL account, allows America Online to be informative, entertaining and, > above all, fun for all of our members. You can review that agreement at > Keyword: TOS. Also, you may want to take a look at Keyword: Parental > Controls. Parental Controls allow you to restrict the online activities of > specific screen names on your account. For information on how to protect > your account, be sure to visit Keyword: Neighborhood Watch. > > Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. Since this screen name > cannot accept replies, please direct any comments or questions to screen > name TOSGeneral. > > Regards, > Mon > Community Action Team > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 10:54 AM Subject: Two interesting letters in April. FROM beliefnet Comments? AnnaPortenz 6/8/01 5:18 AM 1 out of 27 Two interesting letters in April. The UHJ just sent out a detailed letter that identifies who's in and who's out. Who's a covenant breaker and who's just no longer a Baha'i (as in resignation and expelling of the "corrosive" elements) -- and the process for removal. The other letter explains why world peace didn't arrive as predicted. It's a neat bit of apologetics spread over nine pages that leaves one believing the Baha'is who kept talking about "world peace by the end of the century" all these years must have been ill informed. Why didn't someone stop them sooner? Did you notice how about two years ago everyone suddenly and mysteriously stopped talking about "world peace by the end of the century" or "world peace as soon as the Arc is completed"? If you raised the subject, you just got nervous glances. This has got to be a very, very BIG test for the worldwide Baha'i community -- especially when you add this to the fact that there is little or no prophetic voice to be found in the recent messages from the House. Time was, they'd say things like "over the next X years the trends of (you choose) and (you choose) will become more evident and we will be called upon to do (you choose)." Not any more. Here you have a community that has completed its most ambitious project (the Terraces) but has no new major project now on which to set its sights. It is a community that had expected an overt world peace by Dec 31, 2000 at the latest -- but that failed to materialize as advertised. A community, in the developed world, that is not growing in numbers and by all accounts is even shrinking. These are difficult times indeed. Is anyone listening? Deepened believers nervously whisper these things to each other at feasts and at quiet personal meetings out of the earshot of those who take down names and report them. There is trouble in the forest. . .and the tree is definitely being shaken. ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:07 PM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Meet Deborah Buchhorn The forum's staff are dishonest fundamentalists among my fellow bahais who are using and manipulating AOL's TOS rules to suppress free speech and knowledge of and about the major lawsuit that has been filed against bahai fraud and libel in New Mexico. Hence I and other AOL members who do not toe the party line cannot appeal to them for justice. See below for details. The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved > with > AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from > people > whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to > fundamentalist sites and events.... > > A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and > conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. > -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm Subj: Re: Meet Deborah Buchhorn Date: 6/9/2001 9:50:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: TOSGen1 To: Glayshf Dear Member, Questions or comments regarding activities in a particular forum need to be addressed by the forum's staff or supervisor. Most forums have a "Feedback" or "Meet the Staff" button on their main screen. This is the best way to contact staff members. If you are unable to locate the screen name of a staff member, you may want to go to Keyword: Questions or Suggestions. Your letter will be forwarded from there to the proper person. If you have any comments or questions please send e-mail to TOSGeneral. Regards, Pamela Community Action Team America Online, Inc. The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved > with > AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from > people > whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to > fundamentalist sites and events.... > > A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and > conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. > -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm In a message dated 6/6/2001 11:37:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, TOSBoards2 writes: > Subj:Terms of Service > Date:6/6/2001 11:37:42 PM Eastern Standard Time > From:TOSBoards2 > To:Glayshf > > > > Dear Member, > > America Online has a Terms of Service agreement which provides community > guidelines for online conduct. I need to let you know that we received a > report regarding a violation of those guidelines on one of our Message > Boards. Here is the information I have placed on the account regarding > this incident: > > Subj: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL > 3/2/2001 > Date: 06 Jun 2001 07:21:10 EDT > From: glayshf@aol.com > Message-ID: <20010606072110.11918.00001393@ng-fo1.aol.com> > Author: Mon CD > Violation clip:New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & > LIBEL 3/2/2001 > > > SECOND JUDICIAL DISTRICT > COUNTY OF BERNALILLO > STATE OF NEW MEXICO > > DEBORAH BUCHHORN, for herself ) > and for MINORITY ) > MEMBERS OF THE SPIRITUAL ) > ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHÁ'Í'S OF ) > ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, ) > ) > Plaintiffs, ) > ) > Our Terms of Service agreement, which was presented when you opened your > AOL account, allows America Online to be informative, entertaining and, > above all, fun for all of our members. You can review that agreement at > Keyword: TOS. Also, you may want to take a look at Keyword: Parental > Controls. Parental Controls allow you to restrict the online activities of > specific screen names on your account. For information on how to protect > your account, be sure to visit Keyword: Neighborhood Watch. > > Thank you for taking the time to read this letter. Since this screen name > cannot accept replies, please direct any comments or questions to screen > name TOSGeneral. > > Regards, > Mon > Community Action Team > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 9:44 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Dealing with disruptive messages <> The forum's staff are dishonest fundamentalists among my fellow bahais who are using and manipulating AOL's TOS rules to suppress free speech and knowledge of and about the major lawsuit that has been filed against bahai fraud and libel in New Mexico. Hence I and other AOL members who do not toe the party line cannot appeal to them for justice. See below for details. The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved > with > AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from > people > whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to > fundamentalist sites and events.... > > A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and > conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. > -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 9:46 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Board Posting at Bahai Faith <> The forum's staff are dishonest fundamentalists among my fellow bahais who are using and manipulating AOL's TOS rules to suppress free speech and knowledge of and about the major lawsuit that has been filed against bahai fraud and libel in New Mexico. Hence I and other AOL members who do not toe the party line cannot appeal to them for justice. See below for details. The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved > with > AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from > people > whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to > fundamentalist sites and events.... > > A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and > conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. > -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 9:59 AM Subject: Suing bahai KGB agents on AOL It may be time to take up the New Mexico Bahai lawyer's offer for advice on suing the fundamentalists, not only in local LSAs, but online as well, such as here on AOL, and perhaps AOL itself for allowing them, year after year, to violate very basic constitutional rights of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... Comments? See the attorney's offer at https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm fglaysher ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Suing bahai KGB agents on AOL Extensive recent TOS messages by the present hatchetman for bahai fundamentalists on AOL may be read at https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/cAOL.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing" wrote in message news:9g01vl$6igc7$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > It may be time to take up the New Mexico Bahai lawyer's offer for advice > on suing the fundamentalists, not only in local LSAs, but online as well, > such as here on AOL, and perhaps AOL itself for allowing them, year > after year, to violate very basic constitutional rights of fellow Bahais, > such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... Comments? > > See the attorney's offer at > https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm > > fglaysher > > > > > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 10:19 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Board Posting at Bahai Faith <> AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among our fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved > with > AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from > people > whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to > fundamentalist sites and events.... > > A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and > conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. > --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 10:33 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Board Posting at Bahai Faith Exact quotation from the Bahai lawyer below. Full text: https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm The AOL Bahai community leader is behaving in a similarly manner to the LSAs mentioned here. Please do something to protect our constitutional rights on these AOL boards. In addition to below, be sure to see FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm > > >> >> >>> If your spiritual assembly behaves like the KGB, please contact me to >>> discuss starting a similar lawsuit in your city. We are preparing these >>> suits all over the USA. Work with us to return the Faith to conformity >>> with the vision of Baha'u'llah and the directives of the UHJ.-Yorgos >>> Marinakis, Ph.D., J.D. >>> >> > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Re-post of clarification & more Website address and phone number, please. - Please post the link where the Complaint is available online. I have been thinking of calling the county to verify the filing of the Complaint. A phone number would help. A little trip to Albuquerque in July, despite the desert heat that time of year, might be enjoyable.... "Fraud and abuse in the Faith will be able to go unchecked." That's the bahai faith I've known for over twenty-five years.... Can't imagine any significant change taking place, certainly no EVIDENCE to support those who hope for reformation.... Pity the Nine Frauds of Carmel, who have always opposed real checks and balances, aren't named in the lawsuit.... It's major flaw. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Yorgos" wrote in message news:OE69U9T3TGJ2TUSzbAU000008e0@hotmail.com... First, I want to re-post the clarification that I made, to ensure that it is very clearly seen: "Ms. Buchhorn informed me that, regarding the "take positive action" paraphrase, the actual quotation is: "pursue positive lines of action that would assist my community to overcome their deficiencies." This is in response to some deficiencies that she reported to the UHJ. It was our interpretation that led us to file suit." "She has been a Baha'i for 26 years." "And contrary to my earlier understanding, it is the role of the LSA is to guide, but to guide according to the writings, not out of their own innate sense of right and wrong." Second, regarding all of this discussion and argument about the case: I am touched, moved and inspired by the zeal with which you all are exercising the independent investigation of the truth. Please be advised that the named plaintiff certified the Complaint and I verified it (The Complaint is available on-line and includes the case number. You may call the court clerk to order an official copy.). If upon receiving the evidence the court finds that the certification and verification were groundless or in bad faith, which I know it will not, then there are very serious consequences for us. I personally would be subject to disbarment and very heavy fines. You would read about it in the news. The case is now in the hands of the court. It is in the best interests of both the plaintiffs and the defendants for the court rather than you to decide this case, because the court is accountable for their procedures --- and you are not accountable for yours. These procedures provide enormous protection for the defendants. For example, the LSA has moved to dismiss the Complaint, and they will have their day in court on July 18, which you are entitled to attend. Some of you have already decided that this case never should have been filed. You are entitled to your opinion. But neither the LSA nor the NSA has stated that Baha'i law was violated by filing this Complaint. The NSA stated that they were saddened by the Demand Letter, but they never stated that it was inappropriate to bring this lawsuit. The UHJ has not intervened. That is where things stand. That is where your Baha'i Faith stands. If you suspend judgment for a moment and consider that the plaintiffs really just might have a genuine case, that there really was fraud and abuse and the appeals system really is inadequately handled, that the NSA passed over several years of opportunities, consider what damage would be done by stopping this case: fraud and abuse in the Faith will be able to go unchecked. ---------- From: Glayshf[SMTP:glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 6:23 AM To: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Suing bahai KGB on AOL Perceptive observers should note that the technique used here is to change the subject from the KGB tactics of LSAs and the fundamentalists on AOL to ad hominem against me, attempting to shift the topic to whether I'm a Bahai or not. Intelligent observers will be able to see through the character assassination, backbiting, and outright lies. fglaysher >Subject: Re: Suing bahai KGB on AOL >Date: 6/11/2001 1:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time >From: Smaneck >Message-id: <20010611015514.12890.00002520@ng-cg1.aol.com> > > >>You refer to yourself as quoted above, yet a post here earlier indicated >that >>you have been removed from the >>membership rolls at National. Which statement is correct? > >Dear Aphar, > >I think Fred's position is that he is a Baha'i whether the Institutions >recognize him as such or not. However, he is fond of putting his old >membership ID up, so he apparently wants to present himself as a Baha'i in >good standing and not just a believer (though I don't know what a believer >would mean in this case.) > >I should add that Fred also argues that he was never notified that he was >removed from the rolls. This is correct. Quite some time ago he wrote to the >Institutions and told them that he would consider any attempt on their part >to contact him a form of harassment. Consequently, they removed him from the >rolls without notifying him. >warmest, Susan > >https://www.susanmaneck.com > > > > > > > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 6:27 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Slander and Character Assassination The person below is making misrepresentations and lying about me on the Bahai message boards with the tacit approval of the community leader who is allowing this to take place since it furthers the agenda of the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to discredit me, a vocal critic. Please ask her to desist. -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---- Subject: Re: Suing bahai KGB on AOL Date: 6/11/2001 1:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: Smaneck Message-id: <20010611015514.12890.00002520@ng-cg1.aol.com> >You refer to yourself as quoted above, yet a post here earlier indicated that >you have been removed from the >membership rolls at National. Which statement is correct? Dear Aphar, I think Fred's position is that he is a Baha'i whether the Institutions recognize him as such or not. However, he is fond of putting his old membership ID up, so he apparently wants to present himself as a Baha'i in good standing and not just a believer (though I don't know what a believer would mean in this case.) I should add that Fred also argues that he was never notified that he was removed from the rolls. This is correct. Quite some time ago he wrote to the Institutions and told them that he would consider any attempt on their part to contact him a form of harassment. Consequently, they removed him from the rolls without notifying him. warmest, Susan https://www.susanmaneck.com ---------- From: Glayshf[SMTP:glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 6:56 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com; FG@home.com Subject: Re: Community Leader Requests Motion to Dismiss >You don't have to get it from the NSA. You can get it from wherever you got >these other documents. They are a matter of public record. >warmest, Susan > >https://www.susanmaneck.com The perceptive observer will notice that the community leader here regularly allows Ms Maneck and other fundamenatalists to post here website link while anyone else is TOSed for it and their messages and links removed. Further notice that the community leader brought up the Motion to Dismiss and are straining to discredit it and me, as though I'm supposed to have a copy of it, instead of discussing the Response to the Motion to Dismiss or posting the fundamentalists' Motion to Dismiss itself. Vintage bahai fanatic tactics. fglaysher ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Suing bahai KGB agents on AOL Those on AOL might want to look in at Announcements for a similar titled thread, whereon the fundamentalists are deceiving and railing.... fglaysher ---------- From: MrMahdi@aol.com[SMTP:MrMahdi@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 1:06 PM To: FG@home.com Subject: Re: See Announcements on AOL Greetings Fred, In a message dated 6/11/01 6:48:20 AM Central Daylight Time, FG@home.com writes: > Suing thread there too. Maneck et al charging in.... > > TOSings are mounting. They're out to kick me off again, > probably because of the lawsuit and July 18 is the big > day for that.... > Thanks for telling me about what's going on in the message boards. As you may of have noticed by now, I posted a message in the Announcement folder. I will be a witness to another bahai attempt at kicking you off from AOL. I am quite sure that you will keep TRB abreast to what is going on in AOL and if you ever need me as a witness or anything else, please feel free to ask. Take care. Peace ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:09 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Suing bahai KGB on AOL <> Isn't that convenient.... AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among our fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved > with > AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from > people > whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to > fundamentalist sites and events.... > > A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and > conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. > --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:10 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Trailers <> Harassment.... AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among our fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. > Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, > discusses related issues in his journal article "The > Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved > with > AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from > people > whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to > fundamentalist sites and events.... > > A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and > conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. > --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Glayshf[SMTP:glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:22 AM To: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Bahai Center--Let's Meet! The non-bahai observer might want to note that this claim is a complete falsehood, regularly used by fundamentalists to smear and discredit me: >True. You wrote and told them you would consider such contact harrassment, so >they didn't make any when they removed you. My Bahai ID card may be found on my website. I have never been contacted in any way to the contrary by the bahai adminstration that accepted my declaration card.... fglaysher ---------- From: Glayshf[SMTP:glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:40 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com; FG@home.com Subject: Re: Hyperlinks The bahai community leader is using a double standard that allows his fellow fundamentalists to post hyperlinks to their websites while excluding all those bahais, such as myself, whose websites present the truth about the many other victims of bahai fundamentalists including Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, and most recently Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman.... AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among our fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm >ubject: Hyperlinks >Date: 6/12/2001 1:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time >From: LDRS LFST Shahid >Message-id: <20010612013839.19072.00003114@ng-fi1.aol.com> > > >Dear friends, > >Hyperlinks are permissable so long as they are consistent with the Board >purpose which in this case is dedicated to support and/or fellowship of the >Baha'i community. >LDRS LFST Shahid >Volunteer Message Board Leader >Baha'i Message Board > > > > > > ---------- From: Glayshf[SMTP:glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:00 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com; FG@home.com Subject: Re: Mahdi on being a non-bahai observer of Bahais on AOL Mr. Mahdi, I've been thinking about your post here. It strikes me that you're right in a number of ways. I have been allowed to create or play a role in the creation of alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai, which have permitted the free speech and conscience supported by Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha to begin to flourish within the Bahai Faith. For that I'm grateful. I would like to think, too, that my website, since May of 1998, has helped many fellow Bahais and non-bahais realize how pervasive the suppression of freedom of conscience and discussion really is within the fundamentalists circles controlled by the bahai administration, leading to the expansion of many websites and message boards, and so on, that now permit more diverse voices to be heard within and about the Bahai Faith. The filing of the New Mexico lawsuit for Deborah Buchhorn by Bahai lawyer Yorgos Marinakis seems to me to be further EVIDENCE that my sacrifice, if you will permit me to take it as such, during the last five years has helped others to see the light of day, how things really stand with the fundamentalists in charge. These are all very important developments to me, marking major changes and steps forward to the restoration of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha's Teachings on free speech and conscience. I would hope AOL's TOSGeneral would begin to wake up too to the complexity of the issues and curtail the support of the fundamentalist forces that continue to dominant AOL's Bahai Message Boards. Frederick Glaysher >Subject: Mahdi on being a non-bahai observer of Bahais on AOL >Date: 6/11/2001 1:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time >From: Mr Mahdi >Message-id: <20010611130423.20423.00000494@ng-bj1.aol.com> > > >Before I begin my post, I would like to thank Mr. Fred Glaysher who has for >years spent time and effort in trying to raise awareness concerning certain >issues in the bahai faith. He has worked hard in creating forums where >people can express their views about the bahai faith and offer a critical >analysis of it. I often post to TRB where I often raise critical arguments >and points and thanks to Mr. Glaysher for being so concerned about the right >for bahais and non-bahais to freely speak about the bahai faith. > >I have written articles about the bahai faith raising many problematic issues >that many bahais have either faced or are too afraid to face. For this >reason, since 1998, I have been harassed by certain elements with the bahais >even here on AOL. Certain bahais have harassed me by doing things like >stalking me, trying to get me kicked off, creating bogus excuses to have my >posts on the message boards banned and removed, and so on. > >I am speaking from a non-bahai critic point of view. My views on the bahai >faith are based on objective as well as subjective analysis which are >critical and intellectual. I have encountered on countless occasions the >habit of many bahais to reject clear-cut evidence concerning certain issues >within their religion, resorting to the timeless cop-out of "blind faith" >(not intellectual faith which is different from blind faith) or the attempt >by >bahais in trying to "out do God" by speaking as if they were on a level with >God to "argue with Him," forgetting that we humans came from something seen >as low such as a sperm and an egg and how can we argue with the Creator of >the Universe who is beyond the limitations of man. > >For the past years, I have stayed away from AOL bahai message boards for the >simple fact that there lacks people who debate the bahai faith intellectually >but most of all I became fed up with the harassment I recieved here. That is >the main reason why I longer post here, I prefer to post to forums like TRB >where the people to a certain extent are more intellectual and there is no >threat of censorship by anyone because it is a non-censored forum. > >I have met many bahais that are good people and I won't let the experiences I >recieved here and on TRB make me view all bahais as a whole as bad people. >Some bahais I met on TRB are quite open-minded, although they don't agree >with me at all on most issues, they are willing to have a sincere discussion >and debate, and I respect them for that. > >My experiences here is that such discussions and debates are shunned. This >seems somehow not in the spirit of the principle used by the bahais of >"independent investigation" where evidence is sought after in an objective >and intellectual fashion. I wonder if what I said can be refuted, why don't >anyone here try to prove me wrong in an intellectual and academic way instead >of trying to ban any such discussion. > >In closing, I am posting once again because I saw Fred posting here and on >TRB again concerning issues on the AOL bahai message boards and felt that he >may once again be kicked off AOL for his views. I just came here to support >Fred and express my views on certain matters based on experiences I had here >for the past 3 years. I still will not be a regular poster here, I can be >seen on TRB though. I would like to thank Fred once again for his >efforts in promoting the chance for people like me to express their views on >the bahai faith and I hope that people here can observe more patience and >tolerance. > >That's all folks for now. >Mahdi > > > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:08 AM Subject: Major Steps Forward.... Subject: Re: Mahdi on being a non-bahai observer of Bahais on AOL Date: 6/14/2001 8:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: Glayshf Message-id: <20010614080019.19048.00003676@ng-fi1.aol.com> Mr. Mahdi, I've been thinking about your post here. It strikes me that you're right in a number of ways. I have been allowed to create or play a role in the creation of alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai, which have permitted the free speech and conscience supported by Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha to begin to flourish within the Bahai Faith. For that I'm grateful. I would like to think, too, that my website, since May of 1998, has helped many fellow Bahais and non-bahais realize how pervasive the suppression of freedom of conscience and discussion really is within the fundamentalists circles controlled by the bahai administration, leading to the expansion of many websites and message boards, and so on, that now permit more diverse voices to be heard within and about the Bahai Faith. The filing of the New Mexico lawsuit for Deborah Buchhorn by Bahai lawyer Yorgos Marinakis seems to me to be further EVIDENCE that my sacrifice, if you will permit me to take it as such, during the last five years has helped others to see the light of day, how things really stand with the fundamentalists in charge. These are all very important developments to me, marking major changes and steps forward to the restoration of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha's Teachings on free speech and conscience. I would hope AOL's TOSGeneral would begin to wake up too to the complexity of the issues and curtail the support of the fundamentalist forces that continue to dominant AOL's Bahai Message Boards. Frederick Glaysher ADDED SIGNATURE FOR TRB (banned on AOL by the community leader who only allows fundamentalist links to be posted): www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm >Subject: Mahdi on being a non-bahai observer of Bahais on AOL >Date: 6/11/2001 1:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time >From: Mr Mahdi >Message-id: <20010611130423.20423.00000494@ng-bj1.aol.com> > > >Before I begin my post, I would like to thank Mr. Fred Glaysher who has for >years spent time and effort in trying to raise awareness concerning certain >issues in the bahai faith. He has worked hard in creating forums where >people can express their views about the bahai faith and offer a critical >analysis of it. I often post to TRB where I often raise critical arguments >and points and thanks to Mr. Glaysher for being so concerned about the right >for bahais and non-bahais to freely speak about the bahai faith. > >I have written articles about the bahai faith raising many problematic issues >that many bahais have either faced or are too afraid to face. For this >reason, since 1998, I have been harassed by certain elements with the bahais >even here on AOL. Certain bahais have harassed me by doing things like >stalking me, trying to get me kicked off, creating bogus excuses to have my >posts on the message boards banned and removed, and so on. > >I am speaking from a non-bahai critic point of view. My views on the bahai >faith are based on objective as well as subjective analysis which are >critical and intellectual. I have encountered on countless occasions the >habit of many bahais to reject clear-cut evidence concerning certain issues >within their religion, resorting to the timeless cop-out of "blind faith" >(not intellectual faith which is different from blind faith) or the attempt >by >bahais in trying to "out do God" by speaking as if they were on a level with >God to "argue with Him," forgetting that we humans came from something seen >as low such as a sperm and an egg and how can we argue with the Creator of >the Universe who is beyond the limitations of man. > >For the past years, I have stayed away from AOL bahai message boards for the >simple fact that there lacks people who debate the bahai faith intellectually >but most of all I became fed up with the harassment I recieved here. That is >the main reason why I longer post here, I prefer to post to forums like TRB >where the people to a certain extent are more intellectual and there is no >threat of censorship by anyone because it is a non-censored forum. > >I have met many bahais that are good people and I won't let the experiences I >recieved here and on TRB make me view all bahais as a whole as bad people. >Some bahais I met on TRB are quite open-minded, although they don't agree >with me at all on most issues, they are willing to have a sincere discussion >and debate, and I respect them for that. > >My experiences here is that such discussions and debates are shunned. This >seems somehow not in the spirit of the principle used by the bahais of >"independent investigation" where evidence is sought after in an objective >and intellectual fashion. I wonder if what I said can be refuted, why don't >anyone here try to prove me wrong in an intellectual and academic way instead >of trying to ban any such discussion. > >In closing, I am posting once again because I saw Fred posting here and on >TRB again concerning issues on the AOL bahai message boards and felt that he >may once again be kicked off AOL for his views. I just came here to support >Fred and express my views on certain matters based on experiences I had here >for the past 3 years. I still will not be a regular poster here, I can be >seen on TRB though. I would like to thank Fred once again for his >efforts in promoting the chance for people like me to express their views on >the bahai faith and I hope that people here can observe more patience and >tolerance. > >That's all folks for now. >Mahdi > > > > > > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:22 AM Subject: Re: Bulletin boards, live chat, surveys, updated forums and topics... WorldBeliefs.com POSTED TO WORLDBELIEFS.COM: Given the censorship and oppression of free speech and conscience on AOL, soc.religion.bahai, and elsewhere, Worldbeliefs.com should learn from the past experience of many Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais who have been silenced and attacked for years by the fundamentalists who control much of cyberspace related to the Bahai Faith. Please skim my website paying particular attention to the posts of Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan and the major lawsuit filed this spring by the Bahai lawyer Yorgos Marinakis against the fundamentalist Bahai administration in the United States. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "WorldBeliefs" wrote in message news:cNWV6.18164$Oy2.138405@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net... > https://www.WorldBeliefs.com > > The debate center of the world. Now with services including bulletin boards, > chat rooms, instant messaging, and questionnaires, Worldbeliefs.com offers > the world ways to communicate and exchange ideas with a click of a mouse. > Since the services are free, anyone with internet access can express > themselves in a healthy environment. A place for Atheists, Christians, Jews, > Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and others to defend their Faith. > > *Current Featured Forums* : > > Bible vs. Quran > > Creation vs Evolution > > Freewill, Determinism, and Predestination > > Reincarnation & Resurrection > > Religion & Politics > > > *Current General Discussions* : > > Atheism > > Buddhism > > Christianity > > Islam > > Judaism > > Neopaganism > > Sikhism > > https://www.WorldBeliefs.com > > > ================================================================= > soc.religion.sikhism is a moderated newsgroup. Post your articles > to this newsgroup, or email them to sikh-sub@acpub.duke.edu > Administrative contact address is sikh-mod@acpub.duke.edu > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:42 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Suing bahai KGB on AOL <> AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among our fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 7:43 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Trailers <> AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among our fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 6:33 AM Subject: Re: Bulletin boards, live chat, surveys, updated forums and topics... WorldBeliefs.com POSTED TO WORLDBELIEFS.COM: Given the censorship and oppression of free speech and conscience on AOL, soc.religion.bahai, and elsewhere, Worldbeliefs.com should learn from the past experience of many Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais who have been silenced and attacked for years by the fundamentalists who control much of cyberspace related to the Bahai Faith. Please skim my website paying particular attention to the posts of Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan and the major lawsuit filed this spring by the Bahai lawyer Yorgos Marinakis against the fundamentalist Bahai administration in the United States. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "WorldBeliefs" wrote in message news:cNWV6.18164$Oy2.138405@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net... > https://www.WorldBeliefs.com > > The debate center of the world. Now with services including bulletin boards, > chat rooms, instant messaging, and questionnaires, Worldbeliefs.com offers > the world ways to communicate and exchange ideas with a click of a mouse. > Since the services are free, anyone with internet access can express > themselves in a healthy environment. A place for Atheists, Christians, Jews, > Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and others to defend their Faith. > > *Current Featured Forums* : > > Bible vs. Quran > > Creation vs Evolution > > Freewill, Determinism, and Predestination > > Reincarnation & Resurrection > > Religion & Politics > > > *Current General Discussions* : > > Atheism > > Buddhism > > Christianity > > Islam > > Judaism > > Neopaganism > > Sikhism > > https://www.WorldBeliefs.com > > > ================================================================= > soc.religion.sikhism is a moderated newsgroup. Post your articles > to this newsgroup, or email them to sikh-sub@acpub.duke.edu > Administrative contact address is sikh-mod@acpub.duke.edu > "WorldBeliefs" wrote in message news:cNWV6.18164$Oy2.138405@typhoon.mw.mediaone.net... > https://www.WorldBeliefs.com > > The debate center of the world. Now with services including bulletin boards, > chat rooms, instant messaging, and questionnaires, Worldbeliefs.com offers > the world ways to communicate and exchange ideas with a click of a mouse. > Since the services are free, anyone with internet access can express > themselves in a healthy environment. A place for Atheists, Christians, Jews, > Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and others to defend their Faith. > > *Current Featured Forums* : > > Bible vs. Quran > > Creation vs Evolution > > Freewill, Determinism, and Predestination > > Reincarnation & Resurrection > > Religion & Politics > > > *Current General Discussions* : > > Atheism > > Buddhism > > Christianity > > Islam > > Judaism > > Neopaganism > > Sikhism > > https://www.WorldBeliefs.com > > > ================================================================= > soc.religion.sikhism is a moderated newsgroup. Post your articles > to this newsgroup, or email them to sikh-sub@acpub.duke.edu > Administrative contact address is sikh-mod@acpub.duke.edu > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 8:26 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Board posting at Keyword: BAHA'I" <> AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among our fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: In China, the Right to Truth Meets Life and Death Sound familiar? -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm -- June 17, 2001 NY Times WHEN LIES KILL In China, the Right to Truth Meets Life and Death By ERIK ECKHOLM BEIJING - THEY were a pitiful sight here the other day, four adults and three children from the distant countryside, wandering through Beijing looking scruffy and slightly dazed. Several were already ill from their H.I.V. infections. They had boarded a train and arrived in the capital in hopes that someone, somehow could help. They spoke of going to a hospital, but changed their minds, saying there was no cure anyway and that hospitals were too expensive. They spoke to some foreign reporters about conditions in their village, where AIDS is rampant. Then they feared they might be detained for disturbing the capital's peace and they took the all-night journey by train and bus back home, back to the place, filled with fresh graves, where they began. Chinese researchers believe that hundreds of thousands of people in the seven villagers' home province of Henan alone were infected with H.I.V. when they sold blood for use in medical products. The purchasing companies were often run by local government agencies, and right into the mid-1990's - far into the global AIDS epidemic - they used recklessly dangerous blood-collection methods. The buyers pooled the blood of many people, extracted plasma to sell and then re-injected the remaining pooled cells back into the donors - perhaps the most efficient method ever devised to spread blood- borne diseases like AIDS and hepatitis. Chinese leaders say demands for Western-style democracy and an independent press are still esoteric and alien concerns in this giant, poor country with 5,000 years of its own history. They say that such ideas are championed only by a tiny elite of dissidents, and that an impoverished country must give priority to the far more basic human rights of food and shelter and life itself. But the AIDS epidemic in Henan, which local officials have tried to cover up and have done little to relieve, is only the latest of many indications that this distinction between freedom from hunger and political freedom - especially the freedom to tell the truth when officials lie - is too glib. For it has long been clear that China's most widespread human rights violations, by any standard, afflict the country's poor masses most of all, endangering their physical as well as political welfare, and that official silence about bitter truths undermines public faith in the political system itself. The most egregious human rights problem, in terms of numbers affected and the suffering that results, may be China's rigid system of residence controls, which prevents most rural people from moving legally to cities, or from holding high jobs there if they do. The system subsidizes those lucky enough to have been born in cities and severely restricts the opportunities of the majority - tens of millions of whom are forced to join a furtive underclass of migrants, doing the unwanted dirty work in dangerous mines and unwelcoming cities. Many discriminations are even enshrined in regulation: to gain scarce university entrance slots, for example, high school students from villages and small towns, where they are usually at an educational disadvantage, must test considerably higher, not lower, than urban youths. This is justified with the twisted logic that urban students are likely to fare better in college, but it also reflects the constant bias of the party toward placating the more politically dangerous urban population. THE number of democracy campaigners who are now in prison or in labor camps is probably only in the thousands. But hundreds of thousands of others, accused of petty crimes, have been sent to labor camps for up to three years, with no due process at all. Torture and framing of suspects by the police are so commonplace in China that even the official press has cried for change. The corrupt and high-handed official measures that have set off so many angry demonstrations by workers and farmers - a burgeoning threat, according to a new report from a top research group of the Communist Party - arise directly from the lack of accountability and scrutiny. Among villagers in Henan, awareness is just dawning of the medical disaster wrought by gross official negligence; in other countries, the afflicted people now might expect generous compensation and a thorough accounting of how it happened. But in Henan, that same provincial government has obstructed research on the scale of H.I.V. infections and persecuted those working to prevent the further spread of the disease, making more deaths a certainty. About 40 years ago Henan was an epicenter of an even bigger man-made catastrophe. Historical and demographic records have shown that tens of millions of Chinese died of starvation and related diseases because of the senseless farm policies of Mao's Great Leap Forward of the late 1950's. The ensuing famine was concealed and its reach broadened by the routine lies passed up the bureaucratic chain, and through the press, about harvests and village conditions. In a published 1998 reminiscence, Zhang Shupan, a former party official in Henan, told of being castigated for questioning the preposterous official reports that grain yields had multiplied tenfold under Mao's inspiration. He recalled the vicious campaign against peasants for supposedly concealing their bountiful grain - this after the drought of 1959, which came on the heels of the Great Leap's ill-conceived collectivization and led to mass starvation. Times have changed, of course. Today, such a huge calamity could not be entirely hidden. But some of the basic causes persist. Officials still tend to refer to Mao's famine as the "time of natural disasters" rather than a policy debacle. And, although the central government has begun to act against AIDS, and is said to be concerned about events in Henan, central officials have not spoken out about the coverup there, apparently putting the party's reputation and stability first. The same week that those seven villagers made their sad foray to Beijing, Dr. Gao Yaojie, a 74-year-old retired gynecologist in Henan, was supposed to travel to Washington to receive a prestigious public health award. Not a dissident, but a doctor who is out to save lives and considers herself too old to mince words, Dr. Gao has used her own time and money to visit the province's afflicted villages and teach people about the dreadful new disease, and she has spoken frankly about the devastation and the blood trade to some Chinese and foreign journalists. For this, she has been harassed by the police, and she was denied a passport to go accept her award; Henan health officials said she was being "used by anti-Chinese forces." It would be presumptuous and foolish to assert that China must duplicate Western multiparty democracy to solve its problems. At the same time, events here constantly make clear the heavy costs of the controls on information and political choice. If Chinese reporters had a longer leash, it would be inconceivable for a smuggling ring in the southern city of Xiamen to bribe hundreds of top customs, police and party officials for years without exposure. If the people of Henan had freewheeling access to world news, they surely would have known well before 1995 that the injection of pooled, untested blood into people was asking for trouble; if unscrupulous companies went ahead and did it anyway, a critical press could quickly have sounded the alarm. It may be true, as Chinese officials like to say, that people are freer in their daily lives than ever before. And there are glimmers of progress in protection of rights. When a schoolyard explosion in southern China killed scores of children and teachers, villagers openly contradicted the official line that the school had not served as a fireworks factory, causing a remarkable public retraction by Prime Minister Zhu Rongji. China's leaders increasingly acknowledge the existence of acute social ills like inequality and corruption, and constantly promise to correct them. But the long and continuing history of official lying has left the public skeptical of assurances and done more to corrode support for the Communist Party than the arrest of any number of democracy advocates. WHERE and how fast China could go politically in the coming years without flying to pieces is open to legitimate debate. It is plausible to argue that the late Deng Xiaoping was a genius in the late 1970's, as China emerged from Mao's turmoil, when he decided to open up the economy but keep the lid on politics. The country enjoyed a measure of stability - though it was enforced with bullets in 1989 - and a period of spectacular economic growth. The fear of chaos he voiced to justify continuing political controls is real and understandable, and shared by ordinary people who suffered through decades of upheaval. Still, many Chinese, including many party insiders, sense that Mr. Deng's vision has run its course. The leaders have already decided that radical new jolts to the economy are needed to keep it booming, hence the risk-laden quest for membership in the World Trade Organization. But in the political arena they have offered little but defensive crackdowns, platitudes and speculation about more "democracy" inside a one-party state, which history suggests is an impossibility. Unless the new leaders taking over in the next few years offer a sweeping and inspiring vision of political change, many Chinese intellectuals say, the country may get that dreaded chaos anyway. ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 6:42 AM Subject: Re: Refutation of Peter Khan Cole wrote: So, the advent of the Internet has been extremely important in outing the more cult-like elements in the Baha'i administration, who typically tried to keep their more outrageous comments only oral, so as to leave paper trail in their subversion of true Baha'i ideals. -- For the record, paraphrasing, I heard Firuz Khazemzadeh state, at a bahai summer school in Phoenix, that "we" should be careful about what is put into writing lest it come back to haunt the bahai administration. I've often recalled that memory when I've needed to renew my determination to document their excesses and duplicities.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm "Juan Cole" wrote in message news:619f1452.0106182239.302050a1@posting.google.com... > Dear Michael: > > In answer to your questions: Yes, this talk by Peter Khan was given > in June, 2000 in New Zealand. It has taken this long for the Kiwi > Baha'is who had a tape of it to type it up and send it around. The > talk is excruciatingly boring and it was a great sacrifice for anyone > to spend all that time on such a banal set of thoughts. I am sorry > to inflict it further on you all. I think I had a complete text in > May, but I am only now far enough into the summer and away from other > obligations to reply to it. > > The New Zealand audience was clearly very puzzled by several of Khan's > tirades, since most of them were not wired and they hadn't heard about > the UHJ's declaration of Alison Marshall as an infidel. I can't > imagine mainstream Baha'is walking out on a UHJ member (despite all > protestations to the contrary, we all know they have been made into > little gods). But they just seemed confused by his ranting at them. > > It is important to note that far rightwing fundamentalists like Peter > Khan would never have written these sorts of comments down. When he > writes for an educated audience he is all sweetness and light and > concerned to attack fundamentalists even further Right than himself > in the community, so as to give a false impression of open-mindedness. > So, the advent of the Internet has been extremely important in outing > the more cult-like elements in the Baha'i administration, who typically > tried to keep their more outrageous comments only oral, so as to leave > paper trail in their subversion of true Baha'i ideals. > > With regard to my statement that the "Baha'i World Center" intends to > go on spending hundreds of millions of dollars on monumental building > works in Haifa, this is admitted by Khan himself if you read between > the lines. But it is anyway common knowledge among the cult network > in our religion. After all, the shrine of Baha'u'llah has yet to be > built (I like the simple arrangement that now exists, but it will be > buried under faux classical kitsch), and the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar of Haifa > has yet to be built (the truly awful, ugly design of Mason Remey will > be used, apparently), and lots of other things remain to be done. > I don't think the building works in Haifa are even mainly the point. I > think they are being pursued precisely in order to keep local > communities poor and without resources, the better to dominate them > from the Center. > > I do not believe that the National Spiritual Assemblies or the > Universal House of Justice spend any significant amount of money > on charitable works that actually help people. Some Australian > friends of mine told me that they were informed in the early > 1990s that 75% of the national budget in that country went to the > NSA and its members for their activities and perquisites. They > said they were told by an NSA member not to reveal this to > other community members, because it might unnecessarily dishearten > them. A staffer at the National Baha'i center in the US told me > in the early 1990s that our NSA maintains a slush fund of several > hundred thousand dollars for NSA members' perquisites, such as > air travel etc. While the Baha'i administrations loudly trumpet > their "development" work, if you look carefully you will see that > it either uses other peoples's money or is insubstantial or > consists of Baha'i Sunday schools. Our US NSA maintains an old > people's home, but runs it as a profit-making business and pays > US taxes on the profits. I don't really think there is any > other religion, the national and international leaderships of which, > do less to help humankind than the Baha'i Faith. It is quite > ironic and very disheartening. Shoghi Effendi said that a charity > fund was essential to Local and National Assemblies, that it should > be among their main activities, and that it should be spent on > non-Baha'is as well as Baha'is. I don't think such separate > charitable funds exist very frequently. > > Michael, I think you can corroborate for me that talisman@umich.edu > has always had a limited no-forwarding policy, and that in fact I > tossed Iskandar Hai off it in 1997 for violating it with regard to > a particular liberal Baha'i scholar of the time. Therefore, it is > certainly true that "evidence" against Alison Marshall was gathered > unethically. > > The community in the midwest that wanted to build a local Baha'i > House of Worship had purchased the land and just wanted to put up > a sign saying that it was the site of a future local Mashriqu'l- > Adhkar. Goons from the central Baha'i administration appeared, who > insisted they take back down the sign. This, despite `Abdu'l-Baha's > strict and urgent instructions that local Houses of Worship be built > everywhere as soon as possible. > > cheers Juan ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 5:35 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Board posting at Keyword: BAHA'I <> AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among our fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... The bahai community leader is harassing me trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai In *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 7:26 AM Subject: Re: What is Bahai? Eva wrote: >I woundering what Bahi is standing for. I submit that the most comprehensive answer may be found in the totality of messages on The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm " THE FLOW BOOKS" wrote in message news:HEqX6.13153$vR1.38365@nntpserver.swip.net... > Hallo everybody, > > My name is Eva and I am from Sweden. I woundering what Bahi is standing for. > Perhaps someone can give me an answer of that. > > With Light and Love to the whole world, Eva. > > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 7:42 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Board posting at Keyword: BAHAI Please do not send me a form letter instructing me to send "comments regarding activities in a particular forum need to be addressed by the forum's staff or supervisor." This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. He is the problem and cannot be relied on to moderate fairly. The bahai community leader is harassing me and others and trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 8:06 AM To: Juan Cole Subject: Question regarding membership rolls Juan, Do you have a copy of the membership book for the US, or access to it or someone who might? I'd appreciate it if you could you tell me if Hamid R. Hariri is a member of the Bahai Faith. Or can you direct me to anyone who might have a copy? Fred Glaysher FG@home.com ---------- From: Juan Cole[SMTP:jrcole@umich.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:00 PM To: Fred Glaysher Subject: Re: Question regarding membership rolls I presume that the membership records are computerized; I have never heard of a book. The NSA has a letter-forwarding service. If you send a letter to someone c/o Wilmette and it doesn't come back, there is a fair chance it was passed on to the individual, whom they found in their rolls. JRIC At 09:06 AM 6/27/01 -0400, you wrote: >Juan, > >Do you have a copy of the membership book for the US, or >access to it or someone who might? > >I'd appreciate it if you could you tell me if Hamid R. Hariri is >a member of the Bahai Faith. > >Or can you direct me to anyone who might have a copy? > >Fred Glaysher >FG@home.com > > > ---------- From: Fred Glaysher[SMTP:FG@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:52 PM To: Juan Cole Subject: Re: Question regarding membership rolls A printed directory used to exist, perhaps still does, though a computerized version would make sense. The letter-forwarding service is an interesting idea but my return address might interfere and still leave me guessing. If a letter were delivered, it would be best for my name not to appear on it. If the individual is a Bahai, the fact might be of major interest to people of various points of view. The situation involved would certainly be highly revealing of how the worst elements operate.... If there is any way in which you might help, I'd appreciate it. Fred Glaysher FG@home.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Cole" To: "Fred Glaysher" Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 2:00 PM Subject: Re: Question regarding membership rolls > > I presume that the membership records are computerized; I have never > heard of a book. > > The NSA has a letter-forwarding service. If you send a letter to someone > c/o Wilmette and it doesn't come back, there is a fair chance it was passed > on to the individual, whom they found in their rolls. > > JRIC > > At 09:06 AM 6/27/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Juan, > > > >Do you have a copy of the membership book for the US, or > >access to it or someone who might? > > > >I'd appreciate it if you could you tell me if Hamid R. Hariri is > >a member of the Bahai Faith. > > > >Or can you direct me to anyone who might have a copy? > > > >Fred Glaysher > >FG@home.com > > > > > > > ---------- From: Juan Cole[SMTP:jrcole@umich.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 2:05 PM To: Fred Glaysher Subject: Re: Question regarding membership rolls I have never had anything to do with the admin. side of things and had never heard of a printed directory. It would be an interesting document! There are two ways to find out if someone is a Baha'i. One is to use the letter-forwarding mechanism I suggested. Just establish a P.O. Box for the return address and don't put a name. The other is to call the National Baha'i Center with some story about why you need to know this. Or have a sympathetic BIGS do it. I am not encouraging this latter, but it might work. JRIC ---------- From: Yorgos Marinakis[SMTP:Yorgos.Marinakis@bwn.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:22 PM To: Frederick Glaysher Subject: Re: Membership question Dear Fred, That's a tough one. There is no such book that I know of, though the NSA must have one. Getting that information would be like pulling teeth. They are not a governmental agency so they are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act. It's not a financial record, so they'd make a case for withholding it due to privacy. Good luck! I'd love to submit my withdrawal letter now, but it will freak out my client. Best regards, Yorgos ----- Original Message ----- From: FG To: Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: Membership question > Yorgos, > > Do you have a copy of the membership book for the US, or > access to it through someone who might? > > I'd appreciate it if you could tell me if Hamid R. Hariri is > a member of the Bahai Faith. > > Or can you direct me to anyone who might have a copy? > > Thanks. > > Fred Glaysher > FG@hotmail.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at https://explorer.msn.com > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:32 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Re: Board posting at Keyword: BAHAI Please do not send me your form letters. Speaking with someone isn't going to help since AOL is not seriously interested in confronting the fundamentalism of my fellow Baha'is the ways in which they are exploiting your TOS rules to suppress freedom of speech and conscience. Instead of your canned TOS General replies, please have a thinking human being respond. See below: Please do not send me a form letter instructing me to send "comments regarding activities in a particular forum need to be addressed by the forum's staff or supervisor." This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. He is the problem and cannot be relied on to moderate fairly. The bahai community leader is harassing me and others and trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm In a message dated 6/27/2001 8:45:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TOSGen1 writes: > Subj:Re: Board posting at Keyword: BAHAI > Date:6/27/2001 8:45:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time > From:TOSGen1 > To:Glayshf > > > > Dear Member, > > Thank you for writing. This issue would be best addressed by speaking to a > Member Services Representative. Please call 1-800-827-6364. You may also > find answers to your questions at Keyword: Help. > > If you have any comments or questions please send e-mail to TOSGeneral. > > Regards, > Bryant > Community Action Team > ---------- From: Glayshf@aol.com[SMTP:Glayshf@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 7:31 AM To: TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@home.com Subject: Fwd: Board posting at Keyword: BAHA'I <> This volunteer leader regularly abuses his position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom he and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. He is the problem and cannot be relied on to moderate fairly. The bahai community leader is harassing me and others and trying to suppress all knowledge and discussion about the major lawsuit against the bahai faith recently filed in New Mexico. Please ask him to desist. FULL TEXT: New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/NMLawsuitResponse.htm Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views he opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... A clear example of the way AOL is manipulated and freedom of speech and conscience are regularly DAMAGED by AOL's indulgence. --Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/fglaysher/index.htm