From: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 6:01 PM Subject: Foritior To understand what lies behind fundamentalist facades here on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai, one might want to consider, as evidence, the following message: https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 9:48 AM Subject: Dave F's LIE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Fiorito" Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai,talk.religion.misc Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: Re: bahai - Threats of Lawsuits > Dermod and Pat, > > > Likely it will be held as another example of bahai harassment after > > > Fred has pleaded w/ the bad bahai AO to be left in peace. > > > > It may well be but it sure would have weakened the ground under those > > who think that the NSA (and the rest of the AO) is cowardly with a > > great big yellow streak right up the spine. > > > You guys are both overlooking the fact that Fred requested to be > removed. Why would the NSA confirm something for which they were > given a written request. > > Fred asked - they did what he asked - end of story. > > Cheers, > > Dave ---------- From: Glaysh112001[SMTP:glaysh112001@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 11:22 AM To: benkucharski@aol.com; FG@hotmail.com; TOSGeneral@aol.com Subject: Re: URLs >The question has arisen as to the use of URLs. It is perfectly okay to post a >URL to a website on this board so long as the material on that website is in >keeping with the Board purpose, along with TOS and community standards. If >not, such a post may be removed. >LDRS LFST Shahid >AOL Lifestyles > And as a bahai fundamentalist you define and decide what is in keeping with the purpose of the board.... That's the problem in my opinion and that of many other people now for years..... Under such a specious interpretation of AOL TOS rules and the bahai writings, you may spam YOUR URL all over these bahai message boards? Is Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, a real university unlike the one you tutor at, going to have his website suppressed while yours is allowed? AOL TOSGeneral and others should note Prof. Cole has widely published on bahai censorship on and off the Internet, including a book with Columbia University Press. Further examples of Ms. Maneck's unfairness on AOL, with only her fundamentalist website allowed: >and as such should be investigated and studied by scientists. (31 December >1937, to an individual) > > >warmest, Susan > >https://www.susanmaneck.com > Ms Maneck, the community leader on the bahai message boards, is misusing her position by constantly posting a link to her website while TOSing anyone else who responds in kind, especially when they are bahais like myself who do not share her fundamentalist interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Revelation. Please advise her to desist or be tolerant of others who follow her example. Or please explain for me and other bahais on the bahai message boards why she is permitted to post her fundamentalist URL while others are not. Thank you. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Frederick Glaysher Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience >>"My heart goes out to the Baha'is of Iran. They have suffered >>more at the hands of their countrymen than that cult in Waco." >> >>--Dan Quayle > >Rule, > >Did Quayle really say that? > >warmest, Susan > > >warmest, Susan > >https://www.susanmaneck.com > Ms Maneck, the community leader on the bahai message boards, is misusing her position by constantly posting a link to her website while TOSing anyone else who responds in kind, especially when they are bahais like myself who do not share her fundamentalist interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Revelation. Please advise her to desist or be tolerant of others who follow her example. Thank you. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Frederick Glaysher Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience >His wife is a Christian Reconstructionalist. I'd be very careful. >warmest, Susan > >https://www.susanmaneck.com > Ms Maneck, the community leader on the bahai message boards, is misusing her position by constantly posting a link to her website while TOSing anyone else who responds in kind, especially when they are bahais like myself who do not share her fundamentalist interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Revelation. Please advise her to desist or be tolerant of others who follow her example. Or please explain for me and other bahais on the bahai message boards why she is permitted to post her fundamentalist URL while others are not. Thank you. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Frederick Glaysher Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > >Terrorist cells around >>the world are waiting for the green light of jihad. > >I believe the 'green light' was given on Sept. 11. > >warmest, Susan > >https://www.susanmaneck.com Ms Maneck, the community leader on the bahai message boards, is misusing her position by constantly posting a link to her website while TOSing anyone else who responds in kind, especially when they are bahais like myself who do not share her fundamentalist interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Revelation. Please advise her to desist or be tolerant of others who follow her example. Thank you. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Frederick Glaysher Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Subject: Community Leader concealing evidence of her abusing TOS rules Date: 11/30/2001 6:38 AM Central Standard Time From: Glaysh112001 Message-id: <20011130073827.09100.00000004@mb-mv.aol.com> Shahid, Ms. Maneck, is removing messages of hers in which she spams her URL all over AOL bahai messages boards while suppressing and TOSing fellow bahais like myself who do not share her fundamentalist views. I ask the TOSGeneral to please ask her to desist or replace her who someone who can be a fair and impartial community leader. Frederick Glaysher Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Subject: Open Letter to TOSGeneral Date: 11/30/2001 7:44 AM Central Standard Time From: Glaysh112001 Message-id: <20011130084420.09100.00000016@mb-mv.aol.com> This volunteer leader regularly abuses her position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom she and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views she opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Frederick Glaysher Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Subject: Re: Are you going to suppress "irregular tax breaks"? Date: 11/30/2001 8:16 AM Central Standard Time From: Glaysh112001 Message-id: <20011130091605.09100.00000022@mb-mv.aol.com> TOSGeneral: Please find below yet another example of Ms. Maneck, Shahid, the bahai message boards community leader, posting her own URL while TOSing anyone who posts URLs to more liberal bahai sites. This volunteer leader regularly abuses her position and uses it to silence and attack people with whom she and the more fundamentalist-minded among my fellow Bahais disagree. AOL's allowing the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to run the messages boards is neither FUN nor ENTERTAINING.... Please stop the basic violation, year after year, of our very basic constitutional rights, both those of fellow Bahais, such as myself, and non-Bahais on AOL.... Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm It should be noted by the non-bahai observer, especially anyone involved with AOL, that the "community leader" regularly TOSes or removes links from people whose views she opposes but allows other fundamentalists to post links to fundamentalist sites and events.... Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience >Subject: Re: Are you going to suppress "irregular tax breaks"? >Date: 9/9/2001 9:03 PM Eastern Standard Time >From: Smaneck >Message-id: <20010909220324.18255.00001516@mb-md.aol.com> > > >>The apparent intention is indeed to suppress the Israeli newspaper report of >>the uhj receiving "irregular tax breaks." >> > >What those 'irregular tax breaks' are all about is the fact that Baha'is get >a rebate of value added taxes as a religious organization. >Big deal! I guess there are some members of the religious right who probably >object to anyone but Orthodox Jews getting those. But if Fred can make it >look like a case of corruption, you can be sure he will. >warmest, Susan > >https://www.susanmaneck.com > > > > > > > Frederick Glaysher Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Frederick Glaysher
Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience ---------- From: Glaysh112001@aol.com[SMTP:Glaysh112001@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 12:12 PM To: BenKucharski@aol.com; TOSGeneral@aol.com Cc: FG@hotmail.com Subject: Prof. Juan Cole regarding Susan Maneck, Bahai community leader Ben, I'd appreciate it if you'd forward this message to the AOL person you referred to. Prof. Cole's remarks are entirely in line with her behavior on AOL. Please find below excerpts from a message by Professor Juan Cole, University of Michigan, Department of History: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole2001.htm Numerous other messages by Cole on Ms. Maneck and bahai fundamentalism available at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole.htm Cole's book Modernity and the Millennium may be found at Columbia University Press and documents the fundamentalism that has taken over the bahai faith during the few decades. Review at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/reviews-cole.htm > >> >>> cheers JuanFrom: "Juan Cole" >>> Subject: Re: common ground >>> Date: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:20 AM >>> >>> I do not have the time or the inclination to spend a lot of time on >>> usenet right now, but since I have been slandered (and not for the >>> first time) by Susan Stiles Maneck in her recent posting, I am >>> >> > > > >> >> >>> Let's talk a little bit about hypocrisy. From about August of 1997, >>> when Maneck started secretly working for "counselor" Ghadirian, she >>> began sending him regular spy reports of the confidential deliberations >>> of its academic editors. She began attempting to disrupt the list >>> and "muddy the waters" in accordance with her instructions. We have a >>> rule that subscribers should have a master's degree or more in the >>> humanities or social sciences, to ensure an academic tone to >>> discussions. She suddenly announced that she was going to start >>> enrolling persons without those credentials. One of the persons she >>> proposed to enroll in this maverick way was a lawyer who is also an >>> Auxiliary Board Member for Protection, and who is no academic. I said >>> no. I said that, moreover, the person had kooky ideas about Nixon >>> having been innocent & etc. I mentioned his thinking Dick Nixon was >>> the innocent target of a smear campaign (!!!) as yet another piece of >>> evidence that this person was not a bona fide academic; but lack of >>> >> > > > >> >> >>> Maneck's announcement that she would ignore the rules and do as she >>> pleased; her frequent rejection of posts from Steve Scholl and other >>> liberals on purely ideological grounds; her vicious insults directed at >>> a prospective liberal moderator with the intent of scaring him away >>> from helping the list; her constant spy reports to Ghadirian; her >>> expression of delight that a subscriber had signed off that she viewed >>> as a 'covenant breaker' because she intended to mount a campaign on the >>> list to firm the academics up in the covenant; were all capped by a >>> demand that I resign as editor. Ultimately she voluntarily resigned >>> from her editorship in disgrace because she inadvertently supplied >>> evidence, in the course of her persecution of me, that she was spying >>> on the list for Ghadirian. She later publicly accused me on this very >>> list of having fired her! While I would have if I could have, that was >>> for the Editorial Board, and she did not give even them the >>> opportunity.The fact is that she was misusing her position on an academic >>> list to >>> undermine its independence in favor of the imposition of some wacky >>> >> > > > >> >> >>> In other words, we had to be basically fundamentalists or neo- >>> Calvinists or something, or else Maneck would gleefully join in the >>> auto-da-fe against anything we said. Her idea of "Revelation" isn't >>> dogma that all Baha'is have to accept, and her problems with deism are >>> >> > ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 9:11 AM Subject: Maneck's fundamentalist grip on AOL bahai message boards Maneck's fundamentalist grip on AOL bahai message boards "Recently, Dr. Maneck, A.K.A. LDRS LFST, Shahid, on America Online's Baha'i Faith Bulletin Board posted the following...." What may be expected from such a bahai community "leader" on AOL may be judged from Ms. Maneck's past treatment of opinions other than her own: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck1.htm See her slandering other views as garbage: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck3.htm See her slandering other views as litter: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck7.htm See also messages related to her abuse of her AOL "position" : https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOLcensorship.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOLcensorship1.htm Continuing AOL Censorship by bahais 2001 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL2001.htm Those tired of Maneck posting her URL on AOL should see the relevant thread at Question to Community Leaders. Or call and complain at 800-827-6364. Also complain at Keyword Notify AOL, Message Boards, and then Ask the Staff, works well too. It goes over Maneck's head, as I was told on the phone. Incidentally, when you email the TOSGeneral from anywhere in bahai AOL space it in fact goes directly to Maneck, nobody else, which is again why you have to go around her now if you're tired of her manipulating TOS rules and employing her double standards on many fronts. SHE'S the TOSGeneral!! No wonder nothing results.... As a bahai for over 25 years, I'm very tired of her dishonest manipulation of AOL and wish AOL would replace her with an honest person who fairly allows all views to be heard. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 8:57 AM Subject: bahai - LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, bahai - LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, bahai - LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES bahai - LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, "Dave Fiorito" wrote in message news:f0853486.0111051240.4d5df95e@posting.google.com... > You guys are both overlooking the fact that Fred requested to be > removed. Why would the NSA confirm something for which they were > given a written request. > > Fred asked - they did what he asked - end of story. AGAIN, this allegation is an unmitiaged LIE, a twisting and distorting of what happended in order to fit the fanaticism and hatred that runs rife in fundamentalist bahai circles. For details regarding what I did request see below. I have NEVER requested to be removed from the bahai rolls nor denied my belief in Baha'u'llah. The tactic of denying my membership is the bahai faith by this fundamentalist is clearly calculated to discredit my criticism of censorship regularly imposed by the bahai institutions. I invite those interested in the truth to read my account below and to consider that the same person who is making such a slanderous claim is the one who wrote the vulgar attack on me available at https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain In 1996 my request to the circulation department for the American Bahai, repeated twice and perhaps a third time, read, "Please remove my name and address from your mailing list." I had torn off the preprinted address change label regularly published on the back page of the American Bahai and mailed it into the address given for subscription changes. I asked for nothing other than my name and address to be removed from the mailing list--no gloss, no explanation, no complaint, no threat, etc.... Dermod Ryder's speculation that willingness to receive the American Bahai has become compulsory should give pause.... Again, note well, I used the address on the back of the American Bahai given specifically for handling subscription addresses. I did not write the nsa, its secretary, etc. My communication was limited to the simplest of requests: remove my name and address from your mailing list. Not a word or suggestion about withdrawing from the Bahai Faith, nor any criticism of it whatsoever, real nor implied. I conveyed my wishes to the proper address, as announced in the American Bahai itself. That I received a response back from an entirely different address speaks volumes, as they say. After six years, I believe the time is now right to release it publicly. I've scanned the letter so others might read the original. I am not about to accept the slander and backbiting of fanatics and fundamentalists nor allow them to provoke me into one action or another. I prefer the facts: Again, I declared my belief in Baha'u'llah in 1976 and notified the nsa, who sent me back the declaration card available on my homepage. I have never notified them otherwise. They, as distinguished from liars and sycophants online, have never notified me to the contrary. Scanned orignials at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/nsa1996.htm The other two letters were related to the Detroit local spiritual assembly and its junk mail. See my message below for other relevant details. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing Despite the slander of many fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, I have been a member of the bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my main bahai page. I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. The reason the uhj allows and encourages fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to backbite and slander me on talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai, AOL, BeliefNet, and elsewhere may be discovered in the four messages below: To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm To the Universal House of Justice - July 24, 1998 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ72498.htm To uhj 12-10-1999 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/uhj12-10-99.htm Open Petition for Baha'i Reformation February 8, 2001 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Reformation.htm My Request Not to Receive the American Bahai 1996 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/nsa1996.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 8:05 AM Subject: BahaiCensorship2001CD - $24.95 suggested for bahais - FREE for non-bahais! Details below. BahaiCensorship2001CD - $24.95 suggested for bahais - FREE for non-bahais! Details below. https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archive.htm Use it on your laptop, when you're off the Net! Research the crucial documents on bahai freedom of speech and conscience anywhere in the world! REQUIRES CD R/W burner. After formatting a CD R/W disk as you usually do, unzip or copy this folder to the CD R/W. I recommend creating a folder called BahaiCensorship2001CD on your CD R/W disk using the proper drive letter, e.g., D: or E: Unzip SBookBuilder6.zip with any version of Unzip to a CD R/W disk into a folder you name BahaiCensorship2001CD. 1. Unzip to E:/BahaiCensorship20001CD folder or any folder of your choice and name. 2. Click on SBookBuilder6 and follow the menus. The SBookBuilder6 runs slowly, so be patient. Select Directoy: E:/BahaiCensorship20001CD (or your choosing). Select Homepage: You must choose index.htm for BahaiCensorship2001CD to work properly. Select Enter SBook Title: BahaiCensorship2001CD. Skip optional password unless you want one. Click Create your SBook. A Save As menu will pop up, type in BahaiCensorship2001CD for the icon that you will click to run the CD version once compiled. Be PATIENT. With 500+ pages and 50+ megabytes, it takes SBookBuilder SEVERAL minutes to create the CD version. ADVICE: WAIT PATIENTLY. You should eventually receive a message stating BahaiCensorship2001CD created successfully! The speed of your CD burner will influence access time. If you have trouble, you can always delete the created Sbook6.bin, sbookauthor, sbookfiles, and start over. Find the BahaiCensorship2001CD icon you just created in the folder and click to run it! It loads slowly but works fine once you get past these initial steps. Don't have a CD burner? Follow the above instructions but copy the folder to c:/BahaiCensorship2001CD or whatever drive and folder you want. May run faster on a hard drive. You now have a copy of BahaiCensorship2001CD for use anytime or place without having to be online! Run it from a laptop or when your ISP is down. Preserve this archive for study by future Baha'i scholars! Talk.religion.bahai Archive *.txt files may be viewed separately with any text editor since the SBookBuilder6 viewer will not properly open the archived text files. Zipped SBookBuilder6 included in the event you need to rerun and recreate the engine for use on different drives or computers. Just unzip and copy over existing SBookBuilder6 files or create a new CD. $24.95 suggested donation for bahais to the universal house of justice for BahaiCensorship2001CD in memory of Abdu'l-Baha's forgotten Words: "These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world." --A Traveler's Narrative, 91. Please include a copy of Abdu'l-Baha's Words with your donation check! Perhaps someone there will read and actually PRACTICE His Teachings! Bahá'í World Centre P.O. Box 155 31 001 Haifa Israel FREE to non-bahais! https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archive.htm Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: Re: bahai - Download My Entire Website: BahaiCensorship2001.Zip 18 megabytes zipped 12/31/2001 bahai - Download My Entire Website: BahaiCensorship2001.Zip 18 megabytes zipped 12/31/2001 Includes All Archives Below Combined in One Searchable 25 megabyte Text File to 7-31-2000 https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archive.htm BahaiCensorship2001CD version! 23 megabytes zipped 1/1/2002 https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archive.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:04 AM Subject: NOTICE - No longer archiving individual messages for BahaiCensorship2002.zip - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience I will no longer be archiving individual selected messages for 2002. If you would like your messages included in BahaiCensorship2002.zip, please save and archive them for me in text format with the *.txt extension. My only request is that they were posted to either alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai during 2002. I prefer predominantly a chronological order, though it's not required. Please send the text file to me by about mid-December 2002 at f_glaysher@hotmail.com or whatever email address appears on my bahai homepage later this year, should it change. Also, please send to my attention, at the same email address, any major documents that might happen along this year. I have a number of duties that necessitate more time and attention and must minimize my involvement, after more than five years, to only perhaps my reposts roughly once a month. Since talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai are firmly established as the only forums about the bahai faith that can not be controlled and censored, whether by bahai fundamentalists or liberals, I am confident that the time is right for me to turn to other concerns, "The Bower of Nil" and my epic poem, "long sought but much delayed," "The Parliament of Poets." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/LettersAmD1989-1994.htm "When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable." --Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. I thank God that I have been able to document the dishonesty and injustices of the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais. I shall continue to make my website available for interested people. As a Baha'i for over twenty-five years, I hope, God willing, Baha'u'llah shall somehow redeem His Dispensation from the fundamentalists who have hamstrung His Revelation.... In His Service, Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing[SMTP:patrick_henry@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:06 AM Subject: NOTICE - No longer archiving individual selected messages for BahaiCensorship2002.zip - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience I will no longer be archiving individual selected messages for 2002. If you would like your messages included in BahaiCensorship2002.zip, please save and archive them for me in text format with the *.txt extension. My only request is that they were posted to either alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai during 2002. I prefer predominantly a chronological order, though it's not required. Please send the text file to me by about mid-December 2002 at f_glaysher@hotmail.com or whatever email address appears on my bahai homepage later this year, should it change. Also, please send to my attention, at the same email address, any major documents that might happen along this year. I have a number of duties that necessitate more time and attention and must minimize my involvement, after more than five years, to only perhaps my reposts roughly once a month. Since talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai are firmly established as the only forums about the bahai faith that can not be controlled and censored, whether by bahai fundamentalists or liberals, I am confident that the time is right for me to turn to other concerns, "The Bower of Nil" and my epic poem, "long sought but much delayed," "The Parliament of Poets." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/LettersAmD1989-1994.htm "When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable." --Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. I thank God that I have been able to document the dishonesty and injustices of the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais. I shall continue to make my website available for interested people. As a Baha'i for over twenty-five years, I hope, God willing, Baha'u'llah shall somehow redeem His Dispensation from the fundamentalists who have hamstrung His Revelation.... In His Service, Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 11:15 AM Subject: NYTIMES - Compare bahai fundamentalism January 27, 2002 Bernard Lewis Asks 'What Went Wrong?' Between Islam and the West By PAUL KENNEDY https://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/27/books/review/27KENNEDT.html In early 1979 the authoritarian and much-disliked regime of the Shah of Iran collapsed, to the rejoicing of left-wing groups everywhere in the West. Quite by chance, I was to dine in those same days in Princeton with the renowned historians Fritz Stern and John Elliott, plus one other scholar. The fourth dining partner arrived late, apologetic and a little rueful. He had given a radio interview earlier in the day, warning that the shah's overthrow by Muslim clerics would lead not to social improvement and democracy but to theocracy, intolerance and clerically controlled mayhem. This was not a popular opinion. A fellow professor, distinguished in the field of international law but knowing little of Iran, deplored such conservatism and pessimism. And many Princeton students were outraged, since they were sure that the Iranian people, freed from the shah's yoke, would join the modern, anticapitalist, freethinking world. The gloomy, skeptical scholar was surely mistaken, and should feel ashamed of himself. No wonder he was a little rueful. The fourth dining partner that evening was the distinguished historian of the Islamic, Arabic and Middle Eastern worlds Bernard Lewis, for many years the Cleveland E. Dodge professor of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton. As it happened, the radical, protesting students were quite wrong, and the individual and maligned scholar was completely right. He actually knew what he was talking about, because he had been studying the Muslim world -- its history, literature, culture -- for over 30 years. He had some claim to offer an opinion that deserved respect. There is a lesson here. The same authority is still going strong. A couple of years ago he published a wonderful collection of occasional pieces, named (appropriately enough) ''A Middle East Mosaic,'' which offered numerous vignettes of a region both fascinating and disturbing. Now he has produced what may be his most significant work for a contemporary audience. ''What Went Wrong?'' is a concise study of the Muslim world's responses to the West and of its own long, sad decline. It was completed, one must emphasize, some time before Sept. 11. Scholars of international and Middle Eastern affairs like Lewis did not need Osama bin Laden's attacks, the subsequent war against the Taliban and revelations of our shaky, ambivalent friendships with Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and other Arab states to recognize that things were out of joint between the West and much of the Muslim world. What the events of the past few months did was to call this enormous problem to the attention of a far wider audience. On the whole, the varied societies of our planet are marching, however briskly or reluctantly, in lock step with an America of laissez-faire economics, cultural pluralism and political democracy. This was and is a heady stew, and one that took Western Europe and North America four or five generations to absorb. To expect Argentina or Indonesia or China or Ukraine to swallow such changes in a far shorter time is probably asking too much. No wonder we hear the creakings and crashings of the structures of the post-1945 world order all around us. But in the Middle East the difficulties present not just another case of traditional societies having to come to terms with the forces of modernization. The unvarnished truth is that the tensions there are of a different order of magnitude. The region extends over a vast, sprawling area, where a badly damaged though powerful and religiously driven order is locked in confrontation with global trends more penetrating and unsettling than could ever have been imagined when Muslim self-confidence was at its peak some centuries ago. What Lewis is writing about in ''What Went Wrong?'' concerns one of the greatest cultural and political divides in modern history. Sometime around 1760, Britain, then France and America took off to another world, one that was increasingly secular, democratic, industrial and tolerant in ways that left many of the other regions gasping at the combined implications of such changes. Certain societies in parts of Latin America or India or Russia felt they had little choice but to follow suit, although hoping to brake the impacts of Western man. The Middle East, powerful a half-millennium earlier, when Europe was a bundle of inchoate, backward states and unworthy of attention, did not. Yet Europe rose while the Muslim world rested on its laurels -- until it was besieged by Western ships, armaments, iron goods and cheap textiles, to all of which it became harder and harder to respond. The West's cultural messages, especially about democracy, made things even more difficult. Those with power in Muslim societies found it impossible to contemplate the separation of religion and state, or admit to a changed place in society for women or permit the free exchange of ideas, particularly unpleasant ideas, on the lines argued by John Stuart Mill and others. But there is even more to it than that. As Lewis shrewdly points out, the works of Mozart and Shakespeare and Voltaire have traveled around the globe, as for that matter have Stravinsky, jazz and George Orwell. But they all pretty much stop at the frontiers of the Arab world, which has shown little interest in how others think, write, compose; there are few translations of these writers and few performances of these musicians, nor are there great libraries and museums of Western art to match the impressive collections of Muslim culture in the West. (There is no presumption by Lewis here that Western or Slavic or Japanese culture is inherently superior, only that it is disturbing that this troubled part of our planet has never really cared.) It is not that the Muslim world was totally without attempts at reform and renewal in the face of global trends, or that there was no appreciation that its own earlier superiority had vanished. In fact, Lewis is extremely good i n detailing Ottoman and Arab and Iranian scholars who, from the 18th century onward, called with growing alarm for change. The sad fact is that for the most part their calls went unheeded. Among the many reasons for such a failure discussed in this remarkably succinct account, one especially stands out. It is that the reformers split into two diametrically opposed camps: the Western-oriented movements, which sought adaptation, imitation and accommodation with modernity, though within a moderately Muslim order of things; and the conservatives, who angrily claimed that the reason for the decline was traitorous forces within their own societies, those who had strayed from the true path of the prophet. These forces, the conservatives argued, were even more sinful and deserved more punishment than the infidels themselves. It is not difficult, in reading these earlier denunciations of Arab liberals, to recall bin Laden's recent ferocious speeches against the Saudi leadership and others in the Middle East for defiling the true faith. And yet, because ''What Went Wrong?'' was written before the Sept. 11 attacks, it has no reference to the immediate crisis, nor has it therefore any prescriptions for the United States, or the West in general. This is not a text that will directly help Donald H. Rumsfeld as he waits for his morning briefings. In a way, however, this is the book's great strength, and its claim upon our attention: for it offers a long view in the midst of so much short-term and confusing punditry on television, in the op-ed pages, on campuses and in strategic studies think tanks. My guess is that Lewis feels that should bin Laden be killed, his Qaeda network destroyed and a reasonable truce prevail in Afghanistan, the problem he describes will not have gone away, because it is a far deeper and bigger question for world society than even the awful terrorist attacks on the United States late last summer. What, then, is to be done? At the end of the day, Lewis argues, the answer lies within the Muslim world itself. Either its societies, especially those in the Middle East, will continue in ''a downward spiral of hate and spite, rage and self-pity, poverty and oppression,'' with all that implies for a horrible and troubled future; or ''they can abandon grievance and victimhood, settle their differences and join their talents, energies and resources in a common creative endeavor'' to the benefit of themselves and the rest of our planet. Perhaps the outside world can help a bit, though probably not much. ''For the time being, the choice is their own.'' With this final sentence, and all that precedes it, Lewis has done us all -- Muslim and non-Muslim alike -- a remarkable service. Paul Kennedy is a professor of history at Yale University and the author or editor of 15 books, including ''The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers.'' -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 12:26 PM Subject: Re: How many Artifical Assemblies in BF? "Alma Engels" wrote in message news:DNm98.23424$Hb6.2140655@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > Dear Beth, > > You may have a valid point. My latest newsletter from Phoenix, AZ, LSA > states that there will be a meeting Feb 24 for all Valley Baha'is. There > will be presentations by Mr. Habib Riazati and Judge James Nelson at the > meeting hosted by the Persian-American Working Group. That should read "Iranian-American." Persia doesn't exist. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:02 AM Subject: Re: How many Artifical Assemblies in BF? Alma, Common, yes. Why do you think Iranian-bahais conceal and distort their true nationality? -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Alma Engels" wrote in message news:j9D98.25728$Hb6.2339093@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > Fred -- I am quoting and that is what the newsletter said. Moreover, it is > quite common to refer to those from Iran as Persian. > > In peace, > Alma > Bahai Faith wrote in message > news:a4674h$1bf8mb$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > "Alma Engels" wrote in message > > news:DNm98.23424$Hb6.2140655@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > > Dear Beth, > > > > > > You may have a valid point. My latest newsletter from Phoenix, AZ, LSA > > > states that there will be a meeting Feb 24 for all Valley Baha'is. > There > > > will be presentations by Mr. Habib Riazati and Judge James Nelson at the > > > meeting hosted by the Persian-American Working Group. > > > > > > That should read "Iranian-American." Persia doesn't exist. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:16 AM Subject: Conference Call - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience -Conference Call - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Conference Call - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Conference Call - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Now may be the time for a conference of Baha'is of all persuasions to come together and debate the great issues of freedom of speech and conscience in the Baha'i Faith for the salvation of the Cause of the Blessed Beauty. I invite Juan Cole to consider hosting such a conference at the University of Michigan for the participation of people of all points of view, including representatives of the administrative order. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:27 AM Subject: Fundamentalist psycopath THREATENS me again..... For over two years this unbalanced fundamentalist has harassed me in a number of ways, necessitating my filing a police report against him in January of 2000. See his message below sent to my business email, interfering with the operation of my gainful employment. I urge the non-bahai observer to reflect carefully and seriously on the 50+ megabytes of evidence of bahai fundamentalist dishonesty and terrorism that exists on my website via the link below. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship From elley@intercoast.com.au Sun, 10 Feb 2002 23:13:54 -0800 Received: from [203.22.112.12] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBE30BA1B006B400431D4CB16700C93600; Sun, 10 Feb 2002 23:13:33 -0800 Received: from Elderkin (pmq54.intercoast.com.au [203.32.99.54]) by cracker.intercoast.com.au (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g1B7GBg02902 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:16:12 +1100 Message-ID: <006301c1b2cb$c65eeea0$366320cb@Elderkin> From: "Mark Elderkin" To: Subject: Need a house......... Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:14:38 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01C1B327.F7EA2BE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Elderkin To: fredglaysher@xxxx Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:14 AM Subject: Need a house......... What I really need is for you to quit spamming the NGs. As long as you spam, I'll continue to find ways of letting others know how to keep in contact with you. Say what you want and do it in a proper way and there is no problem......... keep spamming and cross-posting to people and using the name 'bahai faith' and I'll keep up with your antics. If enough people tell you to stop........ then maybe you will. ----- My Continuing Harassment post from 2000 and 2001 appears below: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/CHarassment.htm I believe it is the counter on my website, registering over 21,000 hits as of late February 2001, that inspires the desperate, futile efforts of my fellow Bahais to silence and discredit me, as well as their fanatical attempts to suppress any possible knowledge of the truth documented there. In February 2000, I filed a police report regarding a variety of items and placed a trace on my telephone line. Other actions have been taken. While my fellow Bahais continue to attack, harass, malign, and slander me on talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai, AOL, and elsewhere, falsely accusing me of "spamming," of misrepresenting the intrigues of the "universal" house of "justice" to silence and ostracize people, of being mentally unstable and so on, it has been widely observed by other Bahais and non-Bahais that Bahai fundamentalists routinely refuse all discussion of the facts and EVIDENCE of the oppression and tyranny committed by the uhj. Those interested in impartially judging my sanity and background for themselves may find my bio helpful: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm The non-Bahai observer might want to give careful consideration to the probability that the ujh itself supports and encourages this person in his continual harassment of me since I notified them of his actions on January 30, 2000, and again on February 24, 2001, receiving back confirmation of their receipt of my message, while he continued hounding me for weeks. Therecord of Bahai tyranny since 1970, on my website, documents that fundamentalist Bahais have gone from one attempt to another in the hope of silencing me and many, many others. ----- On January 30, 2000, I wrote to the uhj: A Bahai continues to harass me despite my polite requests that he cease emailing me his insults and threats. I hold the uhj directly responsible for the actions of this and other Bahai fanatics. The uhj routinely inspires this type of fundamentalism in my fellow Bahais and then uses them to suppress and control others. I shall be sending a copy of this message to the uhj along with the individual's name and email address. As a member of the Bahai faith since 1976, I have every right to express my conscience and beliefs as both Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha guaranteed their followers.... -- Frederick Glaysher www.fglaysher.com The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Bahá'í World Centre To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 11:09 AM Subject: RE: Bahai>>> Continuing Harassment Dear Friend, This is an automated acknowledgement. Your message has been received at the Bahá'í World Centre. Electronic Communications Operation, Bahá'í World Centre ----- When I asked him to desist, he spammed my account with a dozen copies of this message: >I will post you and I will stand behind everything I wrote............. One of his earlier messages was: > You have truly mastered the high-tech form of rhetorical masturbation. >You continue to post the things which seem to excite you the most to people >who don't really care what you are posting. It is a shame that you feel >that this has become such a deep seated motivation for so much of your time.I have heard all the drivel you are posting, before, and it has always come >from individuals who have had their hand slapped for one reason or another. >Get over it. The Baha'i Faith is divine and nothing you can say(mostly >imagination) can ever effect it in the least. You will never have the >opportunity to understand the significance of the UHJ or its members in >your lifetime. Jealousy takes all forms. Why not stick to an area of your >expertise and get out of this one? No one here cares anymore about you or >your fantasies. "Mark Elderkin" wrote in message news:JuXu4.20$1j4.2147@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > > > It was a common stratagem of the Soviets and > > their academic puppets in the West to smear > > the characters and reputations of people who > > had the courage and honesty to confront the reality > > of the use of terror and tyranny by Stalin and his > > ilk. > > > > Comparably speaking, it will require a great effort on > > the part of those interested in the truth about the > > current Bahai uhj if they are not to be misled by my > > fellow Bahais and their deceptions on talk.religion.bahai > > and elsewhere. > > It is nice to see that Fred can actually write a real posting here. Now if we can get Fred to quit cross-posting to people who don't want to here or see of him. I have an idea. I think Fred needs to quit hiding behind his > usual spam postings of Patrick Henry. So ..... here goes...... 'give me > liberty or, > give Fred a call: > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxXXXX > and as you can see, I have cross-posted this to all of Fred Preselected > news-servers. Let your fingers do the walking. > Mark "Mark Elderkin" wrote in message news:hH1v4.125$1j4.6711@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net... > Pat and all others concerned, > I probably misstepped the guidelines by posting Freddys Facts ........ > but I think it will give Fred a chance to realize that he is not-so > anonomous anymore and might wish to quit cross-posting. I understand that > there are a lot of crazys out there that might not like the things he > regularly posts and now he can't hide behind his mothers dress. I have > posted my own phone number before and will always make myself available for > anyones input. Thanks. > Always Remember... Let your fingers do the walking. > Mark Path: sn-us!sn-xit-04!supernews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!128.230.129.106!news.ma xwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.acay.com.a u!pmq.intercoast.com.au From: "Mark Elderkin" Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai References: Subject: Re: REPOST - Petition for a Bahai Reformation Lines: 12 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <3a96e1c0.0@news.acay.com.au> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:23:44 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.27.214.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 982972465 203.27.214.6 (Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:54:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:54:25 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Xref: sn-us alt.religion.bahai:23378 talk.religion.bahai:21826 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Elderkin" Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Re: REPOST - Petition for a Bahai Reformation > Fred, > I think it is about time you stop cross-posting to the others. They > assume you are a Baha'i and get pissed off at us. It's about time I get >out your address and phone number and I'll cross-post it here and >I'll make sure to include every interesting NG I can find. I was >presented with a list of para-military groups that have NGs and I'll >include those. I've done it before so don't feel I wouldn't again. You >need to realise that you are causing harm and we're tired of it. > MEE > " > > From secretariat@bwc.org Sat Feb 24 04:02:34 2001 Received: from [192.115.146.1] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBC60EDB9005D40043195C07392010EA73; Sat Feb 24 04:02:34 2001 Received: by bwcpo.bwc.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1W8X3S09>; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:49:08 +0200 Message-ID: <234FCCF3FAEFD21192270090271F45D80386EC2E@bwcpo003.bwc.org> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bah=E1=27=ED_World_Centre?= To: "'f_glaysher@hotmail.com'" Subject: RE: Bahais begin Offensive of Lies, Hate, Misrepresentations, Att acks Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:49:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bahá'í World Centre" To: Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 6:49 AM Subject: RE: Bahais begin Offensive of Lies, Hate, Misrepresentations, Attacks Dear Friend, This is an automated acknowledgement. Your message has been received at the Bahá'í World Centre. Electronic Communication Operations, Bahá'í World Centre ---------- Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.hom e.com!news.home.com!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfee d.ozemail.com.au!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.acay.com.au!pmq.intercoast.com.au From: "Mark Elderkin" Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai References: Subject: Re: - bahai - Renewed Harassment Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <3a9ad12d.0@news.acay.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:02:26 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.27.214.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 983224912 203.27.214.6 (Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:01:52 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:01:52 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.religion.bahai:4515 talk.religion.bahai:21702 From: "Mark Elderkin" Subject: Re: - bahai - Renewed Harassment Date: Monday, February 26, 2001 5:02 PM Let's see.............. by harassment you mean I put your real phone number and address on ARB/TRB about a year ago. Yes I did that. NO regrets what-so-ever. I can only hope you heard from some of the people you continually spammed and cross-posted to. Grow up Glaysher.......... Your wimpy ranting here every other day have almost no merit. When I posted last year, a few told me that I had broken this and that rule and that it would put me in court and I would lose my ISP and on and on. Nothing at all occurred. ISP couldn't have cared...... No anything. And as far as inspiration I use the posts from other NGs who post here complaining about your antics. And if you think I care about my phone or address being posted here........... Mark Elderkin 43 Moruya Drive, Port Macquarie, NSW call international: 061265842150 I guess it all boils down to the issue of the morality of your actions.................. I don't mind taking responsibility for mine. MEE Nima, I would appreciate your forwarding his phone number and address to me at f_glaysher@hotmail.com Frederick Glaysher -------- Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!ns w.nnrp.telstra.net!news.acay.com.au!pmq.intercoast.com.au From: "Mark Elderkin" Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai References: <3a9ad12d.0@news.acay.com.au> <905580C9Ddrwalkerfsandpcom@202.76.4.10> <97feei$mvl$1@gnamma.connect.com.au> <905588063drwalkerfsandpcom@202.76.4.10> <97g0do$seq$1@gnamma.connect.com.au> <3a9ba495@news-uk.onetel.net.uk> Subject: Re: - bahai - Renewed Harassment Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <3a9c5864.0@news.acay.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:51:41 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.27.214.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 983325064 203.27.214.6 (Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:51:04 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:51:04 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.religion.bahai:4526 talk.religion.bahai:21739 To all concerned.......... AS I see there has been more trash exposed, might I just set the record straight. I am not a Yank living in Australia but have been an Australian living in Australia since January 1992. Passport available on request. Now it might be asked as to why this is important to anyone other than myself and family but it does seem that it must be an issue for someone. If it was said to make a point then I'm afraid that the point is mute when it can be totally dismissed. I'm happy to live in and to be a 'fair-dinkum die' Australian. Cheers........MEE > >Mark is yank living in OZ, not an Aussie. -------- Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.hom e.com!news.home.com!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfee d.ozemail.com.au!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.acay.com.au!203.32.99.25 From: "Mark Elderkin" Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.israel,talk.religion.baha i,talk.religion.misc References: Subject: Re: { bahai } Why I Crosspost to Three Newsgroups Lines: 51 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <3a9ec8df.0@news.acay.com.au> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:16:08 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.27.214.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 983484931 203.27.214.6 (Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:15:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:15:31 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.religion.bahai:4540 soc.culture.iranian:330979 soc.culture.israel:380858 talk.religion.bahai:21762 talk.religion.misc:496483 My dear Fred............ apparently you didn't take me seriously................. "Frederick Glaysher" wrote in message news:t9se9tkua39287@corp.supernews.com... > My crossposts to soc.culture.israel, soc.culture.iranian, > and talk.religion.misc are entirely within the acceptable > parameters for crossposting to newsgroups related to > the subject at hand: > > The bahai faith *began* in Iran in 1844, the major bahai > religious sites and institutions are *located *in *Israel*, > *all* religions may join discussion on talk.religion.misc, > and the unsuspecting public ought to be informed and > have the opportunity to judge and decide the facts for itself. > > It should be evident to any intelligent person that bahai > fundamentalists have a hidden agenda and their self-interest > in mind when they malign me and many, many other people on > talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai, AOL, and elsewhere. > > Since fundamentalists among my fellow bahais have always relied > on their ability to operate one way in one country and another > elsewhere and the Internet now no longer makes that possible, as > dramatically demonstrated with the former USSR and China, > the universal house of "justice," like other totalitarian regimes, > will have to confront and answer for the consequences of their own > hypocrisy. Their slandering me for "spamming" also won't prevent > perceptive people from realizing what's really going on.... > > Those interested in judging independently for themselves my > background and whether I'm "unbalanced," as bahai fundamentalist > struggle to portray me, may do so by reading my Biographical Note: > https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm > > I believe it is my duty, bahai and otherwise, to inform my fellow > citizens, local and global, of the appalling and incessant hypocrisy > that lies behind the deceptive, progressive facade that the uhj so > often fobs off on the unsuspecting public.... > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > www.fglaysher.com > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.nbci.com/fglaysher/index.htm > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Nature of the Beast: UHJ Letter To An Individual Baha'i Nima, Please, if you would, state briefly who the person involved was and lay out the basic situation. Thanks. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Freethought110" wrote in message news:a4aush$2et$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > FYI > > > > August 1999 > > Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX > > XXXXXXXXXXX > XXXXXXXXXXX > XXXXXXXXXXX > XXXXXXXXXXX > U.S.A. > > Dear Baha'i Friend, > > The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 > to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, > signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of > Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is > Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write > as follows. > > A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed > during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a > significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and > seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's > activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own > creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of > the > Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your > relationship with the Baha'i Faith. > > As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including > those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a > member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, > Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers > of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to > Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by > the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess > as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your > actions would not again give cause for such intervention. > > It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the > arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the > promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an > illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been > a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of > Justice has asked us to address. > > Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and > publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone > questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to > purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would > be to seriously misconstrue > the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of > > Mr. XXXXXXX 3 > August 1999 > Page > 2 > > attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with > you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past > five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but > be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate > assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack > its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse > the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with > him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet > exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and > invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. > Cole, that is > scarcely credible in rational discourse. > > Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a > disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of > Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no > more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a > religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this > context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the > Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable > Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine > Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising > it. > > As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion > groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested > scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was > in > preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent > twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on > his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i > community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium > represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running > scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. > > What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of > Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on > speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run > somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially > one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to > the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of > rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other > contemporary developments. > Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to > various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even > "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was > able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been > "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather > than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and > movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of > religious exclusivity > in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical > experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". > > As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation > of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his > objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an > objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your > behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized > involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to > foist this caricature of > > Mr. XXXXXX 3 > August 1999 > Page > 3 > > the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with > their purpose. > > The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, > has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's > book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge > the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of > Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative > interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions > being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the > Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this > opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad > authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the > Master's Will and Testament. (In > Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: > namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission > because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured > by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized > the members of the Universal House of Justice.) > > Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to > advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in > Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that > a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an > indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an > effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, > scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause > of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably > derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently > ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention > and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? > > Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly > emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue > raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no > reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly > scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. > Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a > work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and > disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in > themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual > standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose > interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. > > The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a > group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged > access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the > Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the > case > with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and > your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of > purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise > the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, > frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. > > Mr. XXXXXX 3 > August 1999 > Page > 4 > > The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the > questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the > relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will > and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and > sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to > show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, > straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the > world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel > all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield > the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as > these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to > produce contrary results"? > > The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's > loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so > precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the > House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on > which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady > spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this > world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct > concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with > Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so > immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your > moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents > of this present letter. > > In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should > have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of > Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and > that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you > have, alas, been pursuing. > > The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you > will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you > face. > > > With loving Baha'i greetings, > > Department of the Secretariat > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:05 AM Subject: soc.religion.bahai CENSORSHIP soc.religion.bahai CENSORSHIP https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb.htm Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998: "I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb84.htm Ron House: "I think the following is a clear case of malicious rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of soc.religion.bahai." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb53.htm Timothy Mulligan: "(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those SRB moderators." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb59.htm RobertNik: "these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb54.htm Bruce Burrill: "What are Baha'i afraid of?" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb60.htm Zuteflute: "Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb50.htm YU ZIR: "But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to address." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb46.htm Matthew Cromer: "The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles which they agree with...." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb47.htm Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:"So many Bahais on these forumshave shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb77.htm Shakti3, December 4, 1998: "Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit, seeing the way these newsgroups operate." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Ex7.htm Harold Shinsato: "It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb33.htm Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998: "The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the controversy started, it has gotten worse." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb79.htm Laeterna: "To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was putting it mildly indeed." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/censored2.htm Robin Peters: "I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the face of consistent censorship." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb43.htm jgoldberg: "I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. " https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb57.htm Ruletherod, November 17, 1998: "Too much damage has already been done in the name and to the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies, linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You can't just blame it all on the critics." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb76.htm Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under soc.religion.bahai censorship. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb.htm -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Nature of the Beast: UHJ Letter To An Individual Baha'i My review of Professor Juan Cole's brilliant and insightful reading of the interaction of the Manifestation of God for our time with His historical period and its impact upon His Revelation: Respecting the Conscience of Man.... June 27, 2000 In his conclusion, which would never have passed the system of censorship, "Bahai review," that the UHJ imposes on all publications brought out under its tight control, Professor Cole, of the Department of History at the University of Michigan, quite accurately identifies the distortions that have been wreaked upon Baha'u'llah's Teachings: "Some contemporary leaders of the Baha'i Faith have given answers increasingly similar to those of fundamentalists, stressing scriptural literalism, patriarchy, theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values. While the values of the nineteenth-century Baha'i movement, which was far more tolerant, continue to exist as a minority view, by the late 1990s a different set of emphases prevailed." (196) Cole himself and many others have suffered at the hands of the fundamentalists who have taken control of the religion: "The rise of academic Baha'i scholarship has caused tension in the community, whose present-day leadership tends to be fundamentalist and antiliberal in orientation, and this has led to pressure on a number of prominent academics to resign or dissociate themselves from the movement." (201) These same forces of fundamentalist orthodoxy are evident on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai on Usenet for impartial viewers to witness. They will be evident to all perceptive observers of whatever forum Bahais may be trying to control and influence. Both my and Cole's websites provide essential documentation along these lines. It should be noted that the Universal House of Justice has actively worked through the BCCA (Bahai Computer and Communications Association) to suppress all links to websites with other than its own "comprehensive" point of view on such major portals as Yahoo.com, Excite.com, and other search engines. The UHJ has gone even further by advising Bahais to remove any link whatsoever to Professor Cole's website. As a Bahai since 1976, I myself have always found especially repulsive the manner in which Bahai fundamentalists attempt to manipulate the institutions and leaders of government, the United Nations, and public opinion, while pretending to values they deride in private or at Bahai-only meetings. Ultimately, it is the Bahai Universal House of Justice that is responsible for the perversion and corruption of such clear and elevating teachings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha as the following: "These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of the contingent world." Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91. The UHJ is also in the end responsible for inciting Bahai fanatics and fundamentalists to attack other Bahais and non-Bahais merely for their views expressed on and off line in free forums of public discussion. Professor Cole's Modernity and the Millennium will remain, for many years to come, the most important book available on the Baha'i Faith. His discussion of its historical development within the intellectual milieu of progressive 19th Century thought is particularly brilliant and insightful. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Freethought110" wrote in message news:a4aush$2et$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > FYI > > > > August 1999 > > Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX > > XXXXXXXXXXX > XXXXXXXXXXX > XXXXXXXXXXX > XXXXXXXXXXX > U.S.A. > > Dear Baha'i Friend, > > The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 > to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, > signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of > Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is > Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write > as follows. > > A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed > during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a > significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and > seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's > activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own > creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of > the > Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your > relationship with the Baha'i Faith. > > As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including > those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a > member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, > Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers > of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to > Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by > the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess > as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your > actions would not again give cause for such intervention. > > It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the > arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the > promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an > illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been > a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of > Justice has asked us to address. > > Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and > publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone > questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to > purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would > be to seriously misconstrue > the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of > > Mr. XXXXXXX 3 > August 1999 > Page > 2 > > attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with > you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past > five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but > be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate > assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack > its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse > the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with > him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet > exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and > invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. > Cole, that is > scarcely credible in rational discourse. > > Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a > disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of > Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no > more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a > religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this > context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the > Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable > Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine > Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising > it. > > As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion > groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested > scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was > in > preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent > twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on > his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i > community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium > represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running > scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. > > What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of > Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on > speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run > somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially > one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to > the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of > rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other > contemporary developments. > Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to > various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even > "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was > able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been > "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather > than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and > movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of > religious exclusivity > in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical > experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". > > As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation > of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his > objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an > objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your > behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized > involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to > foist this caricature of > > Mr. XXXXXX 3 > August 1999 > Page > 3 > > the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with > their purpose. > > The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, > has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's > book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge > the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of > Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative > interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions > being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the > Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this > opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad > authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the > Master's Will and Testament. (In > Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: > namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission > because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured > by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized > the members of the Universal House of Justice.) > > Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to > advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in > Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that > a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an > indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an > effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, > scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause > of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably > derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently > ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention > and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? > > Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly > emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue > raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no > reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly > scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. > Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a > work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and > disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in > themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual > standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose > interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. > > The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a > group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged > access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the > Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the > case > with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and > your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of > purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise > the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, > frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. > > Mr. XXXXXX 3 > August 1999 > Page > 4 > > The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the > questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the > relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will > and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and > sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to > show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, > straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the > world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel > all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield > the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as > these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to > produce contrary results"? > > The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's > loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so > precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the > House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on > which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady > spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this > world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct > concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with > Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so > immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your > moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents > of this present letter. > > In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should > have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of > Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and > that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you > have, alas, been pursuing. > > The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you > will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you > face. > > > With loving Baha'i greetings, > > Department of the Secretariat > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Nature of the Beast: UHJ Letter To An Individual Baha'i Thank you. So it was Kalimat or One World, the former, I suppose, and concerned the editor there, Anthony A. Lee. https://www.kalimat.com/ How pathetic that anyone on the uhj could ever have imagined that Cole and Lee deserved such contemptible treatment.... I merely link to Cole's webpage copy: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Freethought110" wrote in message news:a4b1d9$3vl$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > I am not obliged to disclose the identity of the person(s). But the > circumstances can be gleaned quite easily from the letter itself. A Baha'i > publisher had a contract with Columbia University Press to distribute Cole's > book. They advertised and distributed the book to Baha'is via their mailing > list, etc. The nsa immediately clamped down on the publisher ordering it to > stop from both advertising and distributing the book. The publisher wrote > the uhj. The full text of the response from the uhj is what you just saw. > > This letter is the smoking gun proving, on the one hand, the fascistic > heights the Baha'i administration has can rise to from time to time, and > demonstrating how the BAO behaves as an abusive cult leadership would > towards its rank and file members, on the other. > > Incidentally, if you remember, Maneck once claimed that Cole had doctored > the sections of this letter that is on your webpage. This is the letter in > full proving once and for all that the stooges of the AO themselves are the > liars. > > -- > Freethought110 > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > news:a4b0fe$1ddtmb$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Nima, > > > > Please, if you would, state briefly who the person involved > > was and lay out the basic situation. Thanks. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > "Freethought110" wrote in message > > news:a4aush$2et$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > > > FYI > > > > > > > > > > > > August 1999 > > > > > > Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX > > > > > > XXXXXXXXXXX > > > XXXXXXXXXXX > > > XXXXXXXXXXX > > > XXXXXXXXXXX > > > U.S.A. > > > > > > Dear Baha'i Friend, > > > > > > The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May > 1999 > > > to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, > > > signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of > > > Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to > > Baha'is > > > Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to > > write > > > as follows. > > > > > > A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably > directed > > > during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a > > > significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and > > > seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of > > VVVVV's > > > activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own > > > creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House > > of > > > the > > > Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding > > your > > > relationship with the Baha'i Faith. > > > > > > As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including > > > those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, > a > > > member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your > wife, > > > Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious > > dangers > > > of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed > > to > > > Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen > by > > > the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you > > profess > > > as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your > > > actions would not again give cause for such intervention. > > > > > > It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the > > > arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the > > > promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as > > an > > > illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long > > been > > > a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of > > > Justice has asked us to address. > > > > > > Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and > > > publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone > > > questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to > > > purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise > > would > > > be to seriously misconstrue > > > the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem > > of > > > > > > Mr. XXXXXXX 3 > > > August 1999 > > > Page > > > 2 > > > > > > attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise > with > > > you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the > past > > > five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but > > > be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate > > > assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to > attack > > > its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to > abuse > > > the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged > > with > > > him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same > Internet > > > exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny > and > > > invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of > > Dr. > > > Cole, that is > > > scarcely credible in rational discourse. > > > > > > Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a > > > disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of > > > Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented > no > > > more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a > > > religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in > > this > > > context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the > > > Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to > knowledgeable > > > Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of > genuine > > > Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in > > devising > > > it. > > > > > > As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion > > > groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a > > disinterested > > > scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book > was > > > in > > > preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an > > apparent > > > twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt > on > > > his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i > > > community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the > Millennium > > > represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running > > > scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. > > > > > > What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion > of > > > Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by > reliance > > on > > > speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run > > > somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent > > essentially > > > one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" > to > > > the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of > > > rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and > > other > > > contemporary developments. > > > Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to > > > various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", > even > > > "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author > > was > > > able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been > > > "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather > > > than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers > > and > > > movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of > > > religious exclusivity > > > in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical > > > experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". > > > > > > As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the > > interpretation > > > of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his > > > objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an > > > objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about > > your > > > behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized > > > involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek > to > > > foist this caricature of > > > > > > Mr. XXXXXX 3 > > > August 1999 > > > Page > > > 3 > > > > > > the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification > with > > > their purpose. > > > > > > The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's > > Revelation, > > > has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. > > Cole's > > > book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to > acknowledge > > > the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of > > > Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such > > authoritative > > > interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the > > notions > > > being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the > > > Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this > > > opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad > > > authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the > > > Master's Will and Testament. (In > > > Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: > > > namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission > > > because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow > captured > > > by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly > characterized > > > the members of the Universal House of Justice.) > > > > > > Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted > to > > > advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of > believers > > in > > > Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that > > > a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an > > > indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How > could > > an > > > effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, > > > scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the > > Cause > > > of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could > > conceivably > > > derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose > > apparently > > > ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of > contention > > > and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by > him? > > > > > > Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so > > strongly > > > emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual > issue > > > raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no > > > reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly > > > scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly > qualifications. > > > Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a > > > work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and > > > disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in > > > themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual > > > standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith > > whose > > > interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. > > > > > > The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose > motivating > > a > > > group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged > > > access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of > > the > > > Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt > > the > > > case > > > with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you > and > > > your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of > > > purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you > > advise > > > the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the > > situation, > > > frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. > > > > > > Mr. XXXXXX 3 > > > August 1999 > > > Page > > > 4 > > > > > > The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the > > > questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the > > > relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His > Will > > > and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and > > > sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded > to > > > show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, > > > straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of > the > > > world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, > > counsel > > > all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to > > shield > > > the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as > > > these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to > > > produce contrary results"? > > > > > > The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with > > GGGG's > > > loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that > > so > > > precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the > > > House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course > on > > > which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady > > > spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this > > > world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of > direct > > > concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion > with > > > Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so > > > immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your > > > moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the > > contents > > > of this present letter. > > > > > > In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions > > should > > > have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House > > of > > > Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake > and > > > that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course > > you > > > have, alas, been pursuing. > > > > > > The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that > > you > > > will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you > > > face. > > > > > > > > > With loving Baha'i greetings, > > > > > > Department of the Secretariat > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:43 AM Subject: Re: Cowardice of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States "Juan Cole" wrote in message news:619f1452.0202121705.783a0693@posting.google.com... > > If Baha'i institutions were functioning in an unhelpful way that > contradicted the intentions of the Holy Figures, it was my > responsibility as an academic and an intellectual to point it out. > The idea, which Birkland and his controllers in Haifa put forward, > that such a critique is a form of covenant breaking, is so bizarre and > so totalitarian as to cast into doubt the thoroughness of my initial > critique. "This is a goodly temple and congregation, for--praise be to God!--this is a house of worship [Central Congregational Church in Brooklyn on 16 June 1912] wherein conscientious opinion has free sway. Every religion and every religious aspiration may be freely voiced and expressed here. Just as in the world of politics there is need for free thought, likewise in the world of religion there should be the right of unrestricted individual belief. Consider what a vast difference exists between modern democracy and the old forms of despotism. Under an autocratic government the opinions of men are not free, and development is stifled, whereas in a democracy, because thought and speech are not restricted, the greatest progress is witnessed. It is likewise true in the world of religion. When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable. Therefore, this is a blessed church because its pulpit is open to every religion, the ideals of which may be set forth with openness and freedom." --Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Nature of the Beast: UHJ Letter To An Individual Baha'i "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:u6jele4bi93984@corp.supernews.com... > > I can't even begin to tell you how repulsed I was when I first read this > letter. Not only are they putting pressure on a publisher not to promote a > very worthwhile book, they are making statements about the publisher's > spiritual state because he dares consider it, and threatening him. Nothing > condemns the institutions so much as the words they produce themselves. > Reading that letter is like looking into the very face of evil. Those unfamiliar with it, might compare Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive letter in 1997 to me the morning of the first vote for talk.religion.bahai with this one regarding Cole. I suggest the tactics are essentially the same: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Nature of the Beast: UHJ Letter To An Individual Baha'i Maneck and the other fundamentalist sophists have used this tactic for years............. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:a4dl8e$ecv$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Greetings, Alma. > Yep. That's what puzzles the non Cultic mindset. It's just like you > had a letter in which a signatory admits to raping someone, and there's > discussion in support of the rapist and trying to pin guilt on the > reporters who made the dirty deed public. Which reporter made the event > public knowledge, which reporter got the name of the victim in the media, > whether a reporter was correct in saying the rapist boasted about the rape > to a number of people afterwards or not is not the central issue; the > central issue is the rape itself. > The letter per se is the issue, and unless you've been brainwashed to > support vile deeds by leadership, you'd have no difficulty spotting such > vile deeds and knowing them for what they are. > As I said, heat without water equals desert. > To Spiritual Principles, > To Freedom From Oppression, > To Women on the Universal House of Justice, Michael. > > "Alma Engels" (aelyria@earthlink.net) writes: > > Can you tell me Susan why you and others are more interested in proving Juan > > Cole guilty of something or other than in the contents of the letter? Don't > > you find them important? > > > > Alma > > Happily retired > > This line available for advertising - contact me if you want to discuss > > terms. > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:26 AM Subject: Re: Nature of the Beast: UHJ Letter To An Individual Baha'i This letter was written by the uhj to apparently Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press: https://www.kalimat.com/ Now available at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship FYI August 1999 Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX U.S.A. Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write as follows. A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of the Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your relationship with the Baha'i Faith. As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your actions would not again give cause for such intervention. It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of Justice has asked us to address. Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of Mr. XXXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 2 attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to foist this caricature of Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 3 the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with their purpose. The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the case with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 4 The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results"? The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents of this present letter. In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you have, alas, been pursuing. The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you face. With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:08 AM Subject: ESSENTIAL READING - KALIMAT PRESS - FULL TEXT - uhj's COERCION of CONSCIENCE This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press: https://www.kalimat.com/ Compare Prof. Juan Cole's response to excerpts of this letter at https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm Three reviews of Cole's book, from different perspectives, may be found at Modernity and the Millennium For the use of similarly coercive tactics by the bahai administration, see Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email of 1997. For the uninformed, it should be noted beforehand that it has been alleged by a number of bahais and ex-bahais that the uhj has apparently forced some couples to divorce in order to prove their loyalty and obedience. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:38 PM Subject: Re: An Old Lie Aired Out (was: Nature of the Beast: UHJ Letter To An Individual Baha'i) "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:a4dvua$rpl$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Susan, Susan, Susan, > Everyone would have had, as they still have, a reason to complain. > This letter is despicable, atrocious, vile and evil. It calls out for > the indignation, repulsion and opposition of every principled spiritual > being whose eyes are blighted by its odious presence. > To Freedom From Oppression, > To Spiritual Principles, > To Women on the Universal House of Justice, Michael. And ALL of that applies to the uhj that wrote, in my opinion.... https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:13 PM Subject: ESSENTIAL READING - US bahais READ THIS!!! ESSENTIAL READING - US bahais READ THIS!!! ESSENTIAL READING - US bahais READ THIS!!! ESSENTIAL READING - US bahais READ THIS!!! This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:15 PM Subject: ESSENTIAL READING - What MUSLIMS & HINDUS need to know about bahai in the US and elsewhere This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:17 PM Subject: ESSENTIAL READING - What JEWS & MUSLIMS ought to know about the bahai faith in Haifa, Israel, USA, & elsewhere This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:19 PM Subject: ESSENTIAL READING - What Christians, Catholics ought to know about the bahai faith in USA & elsewhere This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:06 AM Subject: Re: How many Artifical Assemblies in BF? "Alma Engels" wrote in message news:L7La8.7478$P21.699317@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... >If the Persian Baha'is (or > any other group of Baha'is for that matter) try to have the local people > adjust to their way of doing things rather than blending in, then we will > soon have a uniformity and not the varied garden of flowers Abdu'l Baha > wanted. Alma, The term "Persian Bahais" is inaccurate, as a point of fact. Persia does not exist and has not for many, many decades. The people to whom you refer are Iranian bahais and share, by all indications, the widely recognized national characteristics of their homeland. And THAT is the core of much of their problem in communities here in the USA. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 9:19 AM Subject: FULL TEXT - uhj coerces KALIMAT PRESS, THREATENS EDITOR'S Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers: https://www.kalimat.com/ Compare Prof. Juan Cole's response to excerpts of this letter at https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm Three reviews of Cole's book, from different perspectives, may be found at Modernity and the Millennium https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/reviews-cole.htm For the use of similarly coercive tactics by the bahai administration, see Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email of 1997. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm For the uninformed, it should be noted, beforehand, that it has been alleged by a number of bahais and ex-bahais, that the uhj has apparently forced some couples to divorce in order to prove their loyalty and obedience and some family members to cease associating with siblings, children, and parents. The full text below also available at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ----------------- August 1999 Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX U.S.A. Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write as follows. A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of the Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your relationship with the Baha'i Faith. As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your actions would not again give cause for such intervention. It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of Justice has asked us to address. Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of Mr. XXXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 2 attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to foist this caricature of Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 3 the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with their purpose. The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the case with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 4 The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results"? The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents of this present letter. In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you have, alas, been pursuing. The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you face. With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:41 AM Subject: FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S Fortress of Well-Being - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S Fortress of Well-Being - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers: https://www.kalimat.com/ Compare Prof. Juan Cole's response to excerpts of this letter at https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm Three reviews of Cole's book, from different perspectives, may be found at Modernity and the Millennium https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/reviews-cole.htm For the use of similarly coercive tactics by the bahai administration, see Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email of 1997. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm For the uninformed, it should be noted, beforehand, that it has been alleged by a number of bahais and ex-bahais, that the uhj has apparently forced some couples to divorce in order to prove their loyalty and obedience and some family members to cease associating with siblings, children, and parents. The full text below also available at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ----------------- August 1999 Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX U.S.A. Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write as follows. A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of the Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your relationship with the Baha'i Faith. As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your actions would not again give cause for such intervention. It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of Justice has asked us to address. Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of Mr. XXXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 2 attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to foist this caricature of Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 3 the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with their purpose. The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the case with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 4 The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results"? The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents of this present letter. In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you have, alas, been pursuing. The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you face. With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:42 AM Subject: FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S Fortress of Well-Being - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers: https://www.kalimat.com/ Compare Prof. Juan Cole's response to excerpts of this letter at https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm Three reviews of Cole's book, from different perspectives, may be found at Modernity and the Millennium https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/reviews-cole.htm For the use of similarly coercive tactics by the bahai administration, see Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email of 1997. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm For the uninformed, it should be noted, beforehand, that it has been alleged by a number of bahais and ex-bahais, that the uhj has apparently forced some couples to divorce in order to prove their loyalty and obedience and some family members to cease associating with siblings, children, and parents. The full text below also available at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ----------------- August 1999 Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX U.S.A. Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write as follows. A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of the Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your relationship with the Baha'i Faith. As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your actions would not again give cause for such intervention. It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of Justice has asked us to address. Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of Mr. XXXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 2 attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to foist this caricature of Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 3 the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with their purpose. The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the case with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 4 The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results"? The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents of this present letter. In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you have, alas, been pursuing. The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you face. With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:55 AM Subject: bahai - Slandering & Backbiting US Academics - bahai - Slandering & Backbiting US Academics - bahai - Slandering & Backbiting US Academics - bahai - Slandering & Backbiting US Academics - As a sample of the extreme views opposing free speech and academic freedom held by the uhj and its fundamentalists on talk.religion.bahai and elsewhere, see below the text of the uhj's letter circulated behind Cole's back, slandering and backbiting him within the bahai community. There have now been many American bahai academics who have received this type of treatment and been driven out of the bahai faith in one way or another, a fact the uhj seeks to conceal from the United Nations and US government officials. For Cole's comments and response, see this link: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---- 3 August 1999 From: Department of the Secretariat Baha'i World Center Dear Baha'i Friend, Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern . . . As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse thetrust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internetexchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own" . . . The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge theappointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) . . . With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 6:50 PM Subject: Re: Baha'i Authorities Tamper with primary sources about Baha'u'llah Appalling.... After more than five years of incidents like this one coming to light, I can't say I'm surprised, just further appalled.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Juan Cole" wrote in message news:619f1452.0202181122.3e07b73@posting.google.com... > This is dedicated to Pat Kohli. More to come. > > cheers Juan > > > ------------------- > > Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements, Vol. 6, No. 1 > (February 2002) > > https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol6/salmuhj.htm > > see also > > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > The Censorship of Salmani's Memoirs by the Baha'i Authorities: > Historical Documents from 1982 > > From materials in the private collections of Juan R. I. Cole > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE > > > > BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE > > > > > > > > Department of the Secretariat > > > > 20 > September 1982 > > > > > > > > Kalimat Press > > 10889 Wilshire Boulevard, > > Suite 270 Los Angeles, > > California 90024 > > U.S.A. > > > > Dear Baha’i Friends, > > > > On 31 August 1982 the Universal House of Justice received a letter > from Mr. Juan Cole expressing concern aver a number of points > connected with its decision that certain passages, of the Salmani > memoirs should not be published at this time. Shortly afterwards it > was informed that Mr. . . . was also writing on this subject, and it > decided to await the arrival of his letter before replying. However, > Mr. Roger White has now shared with the House of Justice extracts from > a personal letter he has received from Mr. . . . , and it has > instructed us to send you the following clarification and comments > without further delay. > > > > As you will recall from the letter we wrote to you on behalf of the > Universal House of Justice on 19 August 1980, the special committee > that the National Spiritual Assembly of' the United States had been > asked to appoint to review Persian manuscripts was also given the > responsibility of advising on the timeliness and wisdom of publishing > such texts. The House of Justice then presumed that the Salmani > memoirs were going through this process. In June 1982, however, one of > the friends wrote to the House of Justice expressing his great concern > at learning that the entire text of the Salmani memoirs was being > copied out with the intent of publishing them. On receipt of this > letter an enquiry was immediately made by telephone to Mr. > Darakhshani, the secretary of the recently appointed reviewing > committee for Persian publications, and he was asked to draw to your > attention the unwisdom of publishing the book in full at this time. > This was confirmed in a letter to Mr. Darakhshani on 30 June 1982. > > > > Your two cables of 1 and 15 July then arrived informing the House of > Justice that, not only had the book been passed by review of both the > Persian original and the English translation, but that it was actually > > > > /Cont'd.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalimat Press > > 20 September 1982 > > Los Angeles, California > > Page two > > > > > > at the printers. Realizing the urgency of the matter and aware that, > apparently, the earlier committee appointed by the National Spiritual > Assembly had not appreciated the problems of timeliness presented by > this publication, the House of Justice instructed an ad hoc committee > to immediately identify those few passages which were objectionable > and to send them post‑haste to Mr. Darakhshani so that the > proofs could be corrected and the printing go forward. > > > > The House of Justice greatly regrets that it had to intervene at the > last minute in this way, and since it is clear that Kalimat Press had > faithfully followed all the requirements for review, the House of > Justice will pay the additional costs incurred as a result of the > last‑minute changes. > > > > In addition to the general question, Mr. Cole in his letter has > queried the reason for the excision of a number of passages. At the > moment the House of Justice has before it only the original Persian > manuscript, therefore it would appreciate your sending at your > earliest convenience a copy of the typescript or proofs of the book, > showing both the Persian and the English and whatever notes and > footnotes you have added, so that it can consider the passages in > detail and reply to the points that Mr. Cole has raised. > > > > > > > > With loving Baha'i greetings, > > > > Loraine Kerfoot > > > > For Department of the Secretariat > > > > > > cc: The National Spiritual of the United States , > > Mr. Juan Cole > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE > > BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE > > > > Department of the Secretariat > > > > > 2 December 1982 > > > > > > Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole > > Department of Medieval and > > Modern History > > Lucknow University > > Lucknow 226007 > > India > > > > Dear Baha'i Friend, > > > > > > The Universal House of Justice has now been able to compare the > published edition of the Salmani memoirs with the Persian manuscript: > and to consider the passages which the ad hoc committee had marked for > deletion. It is clear that Kalimat Press scrupulously followed all the > provisions for review of this book before publication, but, > unfortunately the process has been dogged by a series of' > misunderstandings and confusions. The House of Justice has instructed > us to send you the following comments on the points raised in your > letter of 13 August 1982. > > > > When the early correspondence took place between the World Centre and > Kalimat Press concerning this publication, the House of Justice was > relying on the discretion of the appropriate committee in the United > States to check not only the normal review aspects, but also the > timeliness and wisdom of such a publication. It did not itself check > the manuscript. If it had done so it now concludes that it would not > have given permission for its publication or translation at this time, > for reasons which will be explained below. > > > > In June 1982, concern was expressed to the Universal House of Justice > about the possible publication in full, in Persian, of these memoirs, > and action was taken in July, in great haste, to eliminate the most > harmful passages so that the publication of the book, which was > already at the press, could proceed. Unfortunately at that time the ad > hoc committee was unaware of the earlier correspondence and of the > fact that certain passages had already been quoted in translation in > books by Mr. Hasan Balyuzi and Mr. Adib Taherzadeh. > > > > Kalimat Press, in its turn, knowing of the prior publication of these > passages, and not understanding the reasons for the proposed > deletions, has, in fact, retained the larger part of the objectionable > passages. The publication is a fait accompli and the House of Justice > has therefore decided to permit it to stand, but not to) permit the > publication of the Persian text which, in fact, would be more damaging > than the English version. > > > > Cont'd/.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole > Page 2 > > > > To the points of substance which you have raised concerning the > publication of historical texts, the House of Justice instructs us to > explain the following > > > > > > In order to preserve basic information and historical > materials for the use of future historians, the beloved Guardian > instructed the communities throughout Iran to record the history of > the Faith in their localities, and also gave instructions for the > memoirs of a number of early believers to be written down and > preserved. This was not a new advice and many friends, eyewitnesses of > certain events, in the lives of Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l‑Baha, > had already committed their reminiscences to writing. The memoirs of > Ustad Muhammad‑`Aliy‑i‑Salmani are among, these and > were written down from his spoken recollections in his old age. There > is no question whatsoever of suppressing such records ‑ on the > contrary, the whole purpose of having them made was to preserve them, > and they have been made available to Baha'i historians, such as Mr. > Balyuzi and Mr. Taherzadeh for use in their work. When excerpts are > translated and published in such works, they are placed in context, > related to other records and, where necessary, annotated and commented > on. You will readily agree that such a use is not the same as > publication in full, even if supplementary footnotes are added, and > > does not carry the same implications. . > > > > In time entire collections of early documents of the Faith will be > published in scholarly editions for general use. An initial step in > suclbrl a process is Dr. Moojan Momen's admirable book "The Babi and > Baha’i Religions, 1.844‑1944 ‑ Some Contemporary > Western Accounts". Additional considerations, however, have to be > weighed in publishing texts by Baha'i writers. > > > > At the present time the general public, even if it has heard of the > Faith, is largely uninformed or misinformed. An increasing amount of > misinformation is continually being disseminated by opponents of the > Faith, both in the east and in the west. The principal task of the > Baha’is at the present time ‑ and especially of > Baha’i scholars ‑ is to present a true picture of the > Faith to the general public and to relate the Baha’i teachings > to the concerns and problems of mankind. When a Baha'i publishing > house issues a translation of a document such as Salmani's memoirs, > the implication to an average reader is that the Baha’is > consider this particular account worthy of publication, and, in the > absence of adequate footnotes or commentary to the contrary, the > reader will assume that Salmani's actions and statements are approved > by Baha’is and are accurate portrayals of the Faith. After all, > Salmani was a close companion of Baha’u’llah, comparable > in the eyes of a Christian reader with one of the early disciples of > Christ. > > > > Viewed in this light, certain of Salmani's accounts are misleading or > > > > Cont'd/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole > > Page 3 > > > > unworthy and, apart from distorting the Faith for the average reader > can provide material for the enemies of the Faith who at the present > time are seizing every opportunity to attack the Cause and blacken its > reputation. > > > > To take a few examples from the passages queried by the ad hoc > committee: > > > > p. 17. There is a brief account of some believers from Sultanabad > saying to Baha'u'llah "You being God, Uncle, why do You give us such a > hard row to hoe?" It is an old accusation against the Baha’is, > especially from Muslims, that we regard Baha'u'llah as God. To print > such a story without an appropriate commentary gives fuel to our > Muslim enemies and makes the Faith look ridiculous to a western > reader. Unfortunately Kalimat Press, not realizing the reason for the > objection, let the objectionable part stand and deleted a > parenthetical comment "The Shi`is, however, were very hostile", which > is entirely innocuous. > > > p.30. There are some virtually incomprehensible comments about Mirza > Aqa Jan’s head, which are of no historical importance but are > unpleasant and unworthy. > > > 3. pp. 31‑34. There are three unpleasant stories > recounted by Salmani to illustrate Azal's gluttony. Shoghi Effendi was > always very careful in his accounts of Azal to confine his strictures > to his truly infamous conduct. He never stooped to making personal > criticisms of such a nature, which are unworthy , Publication of such > stories in the context of an annotated edition of a historical > document for scholarly study is one thing; publication in a book for > the general reader is quite another. Again, unfortunately, Kalimat > Press did not appreciate the reason for the committee's objection and > published the whole passage apart from a couple of brief deletions > which were of no significance. > > > > 3. p. 34. There is the account. of a disagreement between > Baha'u’llah and Azal over the shaving of Azal’s son's > head‑another unworthy story, the point of which is obscure. > > > > There are others of a similar character. > > > > The passages which have already been published in translation, such as > Azal's attempt to persuade Salmani to murder Baha'u'llah, provide > striking examples of the profound difference between publication in > the context of a properly balanced historical exposition, and > publication as unadorned parts of a narrative. > > > > In sum, to a knowledgeable Baha’i reader, Salmani’s > memoirs are a graphic illustration of the overwhelming problems with > which Baha'u'llah had to deal both from His enemies and because of the > actions of some of His own > > > > Cont'd/ .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole > > Page 4 > > > > > > faithful followers; but to an uninformed reader they give a misleading > and distorted picture of the Faith and of Baha'u'llah Himself. > > > > With loving Baha’i greetings, > > > > Loraine Kerfoot > > > > For Department of the Secretariat > > > > cc: The International Teaching Centre > > National Assembly of the United States > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpts from contemporaneous responses to the UHJ letter to J. Cole > from other Baha’i intellectuals who saw it: > > > > 1) Firuz Kazemzadeh, member of the National Spiritual > Assembly of the U.S. and Yale historian, was extremely upset about the > tampering with a primary source and offered to write a letter of > support for Kalimat Press in the affair. > > > > 2) Professor Amin Banani of UCLA, who had written the > introduction to the Salmani memoir, insisted that his name be removed > from the introduction because he declined to be associated with a > censored document. > > > > 3) Another intellectual observed the following: > > > > It is simply untrue to suppose that the average > reader is incapable of distinguishing between the statements and > actions of an individual believer and the official positions of the > institutions of the Faith. This is an elementary distinction of the > kind which is made every day by persons in all walks of life. This > must be particularly true of a manuscript of personal memoirs which is > over seventy years old. Using the House's example of the early > disciples of Christ, many of their failings and misunderstandings are > clearly recorded in the Gospels and in the Acts of the Apostles. > Christians (or others) do not automatically assume that these > shortcomings are approved by modern Churches or are accurate > portrayals of Christian standards. What sane reader of the Gospels > would propose that since Peter denied Christ three times or because he > used his sword to sever the ear of a Roman soldier in the garden of > Gethsemane, these must be Christian teachings or approved examples of > Christian conduct? > > > > If anything, the current policies of review which the House is > applying will serve to blur what would otherwise be a perfectly > obvious distinction. Since the House now insists that any published > personal memoirs, or other statements of personal opinion on the Faith > by Baha'is, must actually reflect official policy and contain no > statements or reminiscences that run counter to present practice the > argument that any individual opinion constitutes official policy > (which would otherwise appear absurd) gains some force. Of course, it > is just the opposite impression. which the House wants to make. > > > > For instance, the only reason that anyone might > suppose that Salmani's particular account of Baha'u'llah's exiles > might be considered by Baha'is_to be of some special significance is > that it is the only one that has been allowed in print. If there were > several personal accounts of this kind available, from different > points of view, the notion that Salmani's memoir is somehow special > would be held by no one. . . > > > > The letter to Juan Cole states that Salmani's account was published > without footnotes or commentary. Both were provided in > [Kalimat’s] edition . . . > > > > The intention of the House to protect the reputation of the Faith is > certainly to be appreciated, but it seems clear that this reputation > is more likely to be blackened by present policies of strict > censorship than by anything in the Salmani memoirs—not only for > non‑Baha'is, but also for loyal believers who find such policies > difficult to understand Moreover, such policies play right into the > hands of critics of the Faith (such as Denis MacEoin in England) who > are hard at work to portray the Faith as an anti‑democratic, > totalitarian, rigidly authoritarian religion, which has falsified and > distorted its own history. > > > > To addresss the specific objections of the ad hoc committee: > > > > 2. It is clear that Baha'u'llah never claimed to be the > Godhead, and this can be conclusively demonstrated by reference to His > own Writings. On the other hand, it is also clear that there were many > Baha'is who believed that He was. (And there certainly still are!) > Numerous references in the published works of E. G. Browne indicate > this clearly. This could easily be proven, by any scholar who bothered > to try. So, the offending sentence in Salmani's memoirs adds nothing > to what is not already known. > > Furthermore, Baha'is know that in a certain sense we > believe that Baha'u'llah is God, as is explained in the Iqan. > > Especially since the incident is not without humor, was > intended as an amusing story, and involves an ignorant villager (and > in the context: of the introduction of the book), it seems unlikely > that it would fuel our enemies or make us seem ridiculous. > > > > 2. The comments which Salmani makes about Mirza Aqa Jan's head are > admittedly curious. However, I would query the statement that they are > of nc historical importance. If we could understand what the comments > meant they may be of great interest. Salmani was, after all, a > barber, and he may have recorded something about Mirza Aqa Jan's head > that others have failed to mention. > > > > 3 & 4. The truly extraordinary standard for forbidding the publication > of passages‑‑that they are "unpleasant" or "unworthy" > ‑‑appears to establish a new standard for the review of > materials which was not used by the Guardian, or previously used by > the House of Justice. Such a new standard raises many questions: > > Salmani can hardly have been expected to conform to standards of > style and choice of material found in the Guardian's writings, since > he was writing before the Guardian began his ministry. Beyond this, > there.mu8t be room in Baha'i literature for different kinds of books. > Not all can be similar to the works of Shoghi Effendi. In this case, > we were publishing the personal memories and pilgrim's notes of an > illiterate barber. It is certainly unfair to compare them to the > writings of the Guardian. > > The objection that a particular passage is "unpleasant" or if > unworthy" is extremely vague. It is difficult to see how a reviewing > committee could be expected to apply such a standard. It could provide > license to forbid the publication of almost anything. > > The other question, of course, is “impleasant" to whom? I > do not find anything in the memoirs unpleasant or unworthy of > publication. Neither did the translator, or the author of the > introduction to the book. Nor did two Separate reviewing committee of > the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, one Persian and > one American, find anything of this kind in the manuscript. > > > > Concerning Azal's plot to murder Baha'u'llah‑‑the > descriptions of which the ad‑hoc committee felt should not be > included in the translation of Salmani's memoirs, since these > descriptions had already been published in translation in two separate > books published by George Ronald, it would have been truly remarkable > to omit them from a translation of the memoirs as a whole. It was > impossible for me to understand how such a request could be justified. > > > > The letter of the House of Justice states that there is no question of > suppressing records such as Salmani's memoirs. The dictionary defines > the word suppress as: "2: to keep from public knowledge: as a: to > keep secret b: to stop or prohibit the publica­tion or revelation of." > There can be little argument that the House of Justice intends to > suppress certain parts of Salmani's memoirs. That it does not intend > to do so forever is encouraging, but it does not change the current > condition under which Baha'i publishers must operate. Nor will the > intention to release such information in the future protect us much > from the attacks of scholars or other critics who wish to criticize us > on this point. > > > > > > 4) Juan Cole wrote the UHJ on 9 January 1983 in New Delhi: > > > > I remain convinced that the policy outlined by the Universal House of > Justice is an unfortunate one and that time will prove it incorrect. > At that point, I am sure that the Supreme Institution will, on the > basis of further information and considerations, abandon its current > stance. > > > > I firmly believe that it is essentially dishonest to > delete passages from manuscripts when they are published, whether in > the original or in translation, and no matter how temporarily. I feel > that it is also morally wrong for a public institution to withhold > documents, particularly ones over thirty years old, from scrutiny by > the public. Because I believe that such acts are wrong in principle, > no particular justifications for them can strike me as wholly > convincing. I further fear that such a policy of secretiveness and > bowdlerization will inevitably besmirch the fair name of the Faith of > Baha'u'llah. > > > > I am convinced that the Baha'i Faith has nothing to fear from the > historical records that have survived the nineteenth century. It, is > too sublime, too true to ever be sullied by anything mere human beings > have written or done, We Baha’is should face the historical > record, not with fear, dissimulation and blue pencils, but with > unshakeable certitude of the purity of our Cause. > > > > > > > > > > Final note: The example given by the UHJ of historical accounts being > allowed to be published was Moojan Momen’s The Babi and > Baha’i Religions: Some Contemporary Western Accounts (Oxford: > George Ronald, 1980). In fact, this book was also censored and > important material in the British Archives that the editor had planned > to include was taken out at the UHJ’s insistence. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > Return to Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi, and Baha'i Movements > > Return to H-Bahai Digital Publications > > Return to H-Bahai Home Page > > Links to pages with similar resources ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 7:44 AM Subject: Re: Note to newcomers to Unmoderated Bahai Newsgroups "Recently, Maneck, A.K.A. LDRS LFST Shahid on America Online's Baha'i Faith Bulletin Board posted the following." What may be expected from such bahai community leaders on AOL may be judged from Ms. Maneck's past treatment of opinions other than her own: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck1.htm See her slandering other views as garbage: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck3.htm See her slandering other views as litter: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck7.htm See also messages related to her abuse of her AOL "position" : https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOLcensorship.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOLcensorship1.htm Continuing AOL Censorship by bahais March 2001 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL2001.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message news:a4sa9h$2osul$3@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de... > Newcomers to these groups are advised to treat any posts by a Susan > Maneck, also known as the Diagonal Steam Trap, with great caution. > This person is not the intellectual power house she deigns to present > herself as. She has continually found herself bettered in argument by > certain posters here to the extent that she has "kill-filed" them. > > You are therefore advised to note with particular regard posts by > Michael McKenny who has persistently presented questions and arguments > that this dear lady has been unable to satisfactorily answer or > refute. His argument should therefore be accorded a higher status in > your thinking as it cannot be authoritatively refuted by she who is > commonly regarded as the voice of the Adminisrative Order here. > > You are also advised to treat posts by the author of this message in > the same regard. Not only has he been kill-filed but also awarded the > epithet of "spiritually corrosive" - the highest award bestowed by the > Administrative Order on a non-Bahai who successfully presents an > irrefutable case against it. > > This post shall be repeated at regular intervals for the benefit of > newcomers. > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:51 AM Subject: Re: Baha'i Authorities Tamper with primary sources about Baha'u'llah Appalling.... After more than five years of incidents like this one coming to light, I can't say I'm surprised, just further appalled.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Juan Cole" wrote in message news:619f1452.0202181122.3e07b73@posting.google.com... > This is dedicated to Pat Kohli. More to come. > > cheers Juan > > > ------------------- > > Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements, Vol. 6, No. 1 > (February 2002) > > https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol6/salmuhj.htm > > see also > > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > The Censorship of Salmani's Memoirs by the Baha'i Authorities: > Historical Documents from 1982 > > From materials in the private collections of Juan R. I. Cole > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE > > > > BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE > > > > > > > > Department of the Secretariat > > > > 20 > September 1982 > > > > > > > > Kalimat Press > > 10889 Wilshire Boulevard, > > Suite 270 Los Angeles, > > California 90024 > > U.S.A. > > > > Dear Baha’i Friends, > > > > On 31 August 1982 the Universal House of Justice received a letter > from Mr. Juan Cole expressing concern aver a number of points > connected with its decision that certain passages, of the Salmani > memoirs should not be published at this time. Shortly afterwards it > was informed that Mr. . . . was also writing on this subject, and it > decided to await the arrival of his letter before replying. However, > Mr. Roger White has now shared with the House of Justice extracts from > a personal letter he has received from Mr. . . . , and it has > instructed us to send you the following clarification and comments > without further delay. > > > > As you will recall from the letter we wrote to you on behalf of the > Universal House of Justice on 19 August 1980, the special committee > that the National Spiritual Assembly of' the United States had been > asked to appoint to review Persian manuscripts was also given the > responsibility of advising on the timeliness and wisdom of publishing > such texts. The House of Justice then presumed that the Salmani > memoirs were going through this process. In June 1982, however, one of > the friends wrote to the House of Justice expressing his great concern > at learning that the entire text of the Salmani memoirs was being > copied out with the intent of publishing them. On receipt of this > letter an enquiry was immediately made by telephone to Mr. > Darakhshani, the secretary of the recently appointed reviewing > committee for Persian publications, and he was asked to draw to your > attention the unwisdom of publishing the book in full at this time. > This was confirmed in a letter to Mr. Darakhshani on 30 June 1982. > > > > Your two cables of 1 and 15 July then arrived informing the House of > Justice that, not only had the book been passed by review of both the > Persian original and the English translation, but that it was actually > > > > /Cont'd.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalimat Press > > 20 September 1982 > > Los Angeles, California > > Page two > > > > > > at the printers. Realizing the urgency of the matter and aware that, > apparently, the earlier committee appointed by the National Spiritual > Assembly had not appreciated the problems of timeliness presented by > this publication, the House of Justice instructed an ad hoc committee > to immediately identify those few passages which were objectionable > and to send them post‑haste to Mr. Darakhshani so that the > proofs could be corrected and the printing go forward. > > > > The House of Justice greatly regrets that it had to intervene at the > last minute in this way, and since it is clear that Kalimat Press had > faithfully followed all the requirements for review, the House of > Justice will pay the additional costs incurred as a result of the > last‑minute changes. > > > > In addition to the general question, Mr. Cole in his letter has > queried the reason for the excision of a number of passages. At the > moment the House of Justice has before it only the original Persian > manuscript, therefore it would appreciate your sending at your > earliest convenience a copy of the typescript or proofs of the book, > showing both the Persian and the English and whatever notes and > footnotes you have added, so that it can consider the passages in > detail and reply to the points that Mr. Cole has raised. > > > > > > > > With loving Baha'i greetings, > > > > Loraine Kerfoot > > > > For Department of the Secretariat > > > > > > cc: The National Spiritual of the United States , > > Mr. Juan Cole > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE > > BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE > > > > Department of the Secretariat > > > > > 2 December 1982 > > > > > > Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole > > Department of Medieval and > > Modern History > > Lucknow University > > Lucknow 226007 > > India > > > > Dear Baha'i Friend, > > > > > > The Universal House of Justice has now been able to compare the > published edition of the Salmani memoirs with the Persian manuscript: > and to consider the passages which the ad hoc committee had marked for > deletion. It is clear that Kalimat Press scrupulously followed all the > provisions for review of this book before publication, but, > unfortunately the process has been dogged by a series of' > misunderstandings and confusions. The House of Justice has instructed > us to send you the following comments on the points raised in your > letter of 13 August 1982. > > > > When the early correspondence took place between the World Centre and > Kalimat Press concerning this publication, the House of Justice was > relying on the discretion of the appropriate committee in the United > States to check not only the normal review aspects, but also the > timeliness and wisdom of such a publication. It did not itself check > the manuscript. If it had done so it now concludes that it would not > have given permission for its publication or translation at this time, > for reasons which will be explained below. > > > > In June 1982, concern was expressed to the Universal House of Justice > about the possible publication in full, in Persian, of these memoirs, > and action was taken in July, in great haste, to eliminate the most > harmful passages so that the publication of the book, which was > already at the press, could proceed. Unfortunately at that time the ad > hoc committee was unaware of the earlier correspondence and of the > fact that certain passages had already been quoted in translation in > books by Mr. Hasan Balyuzi and Mr. Adib Taherzadeh. > > > > Kalimat Press, in its turn, knowing of the prior publication of these > passages, and not understanding the reasons for the proposed > deletions, has, in fact, retained the larger part of the objectionable > passages. The publication is a fait accompli and the House of Justice > has therefore decided to permit it to stand, but not to) permit the > publication of the Persian text which, in fact, would be more damaging > than the English version. > > > > Cont'd/.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole > Page 2 > > > > To the points of substance which you have raised concerning the > publication of historical texts, the House of Justice instructs us to > explain the following > > > > > > In order to preserve basic information and historical > materials for the use of future historians, the beloved Guardian > instructed the communities throughout Iran to record the history of > the Faith in their localities, and also gave instructions for the > memoirs of a number of early believers to be written down and > preserved. This was not a new advice and many friends, eyewitnesses of > certain events, in the lives of Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l‑Baha, > had already committed their reminiscences to writing. The memoirs of > Ustad Muhammad‑`Aliy‑i‑Salmani are among, these and > were written down from his spoken recollections in his old age. There > is no question whatsoever of suppressing such records ‑ on the > contrary, the whole purpose of having them made was to preserve them, > and they have been made available to Baha'i historians, such as Mr. > Balyuzi and Mr. Taherzadeh for use in their work. When excerpts are > translated and published in such works, they are placed in context, > related to other records and, where necessary, annotated and commented > on. You will readily agree that such a use is not the same as > publication in full, even if supplementary footnotes are added, and > > does not carry the same implications. . > > > > In time entire collections of early documents of the Faith will be > published in scholarly editions for general use. An initial step in > suclbrl a process is Dr. Moojan Momen's admirable book "The Babi and > Baha’i Religions, 1.844‑1944 ‑ Some Contemporary > Western Accounts". Additional considerations, however, have to be > weighed in publishing texts by Baha'i writers. > > > > At the present time the general public, even if it has heard of the > Faith, is largely uninformed or misinformed. An increasing amount of > misinformation is continually being disseminated by opponents of the > Faith, both in the east and in the west. The principal task of the > Baha’is at the present time ‑ and especially of > Baha’i scholars ‑ is to present a true picture of the > Faith to the general public and to relate the Baha’i teachings > to the concerns and problems of mankind. When a Baha'i publishing > house issues a translation of a document such as Salmani's memoirs, > the implication to an average reader is that the Baha’is > consider this particular account worthy of publication, and, in the > absence of adequate footnotes or commentary to the contrary, the > reader will assume that Salmani's actions and statements are approved > by Baha’is and are accurate portrayals of the Faith. After all, > Salmani was a close companion of Baha’u’llah, comparable > in the eyes of a Christian reader with one of the early disciples of > Christ. > > > > Viewed in this light, certain of Salmani's accounts are misleading or > > > > Cont'd/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole > > Page 3 > > > > unworthy and, apart from distorting the Faith for the average reader > can provide material for the enemies of the Faith who at the present > time are seizing every opportunity to attack the Cause and blacken its > reputation. > > > > To take a few examples from the passages queried by the ad hoc > committee: > > > > p. 17. There is a brief account of some believers from Sultanabad > saying to Baha'u'llah "You being God, Uncle, why do You give us such a > hard row to hoe?" It is an old accusation against the Baha’is, > especially from Muslims, that we regard Baha'u'llah as God. To print > such a story without an appropriate commentary gives fuel to our > Muslim enemies and makes the Faith look ridiculous to a western > reader. Unfortunately Kalimat Press, not realizing the reason for the > objection, let the objectionable part stand and deleted a > parenthetical comment "The Shi`is, however, were very hostile", which > is entirely innocuous. > > > p.30. There are some virtually incomprehensible comments about Mirza > Aqa Jan’s head, which are of no historical importance but are > unpleasant and unworthy. > > > 3. pp. 31‑34. There are three unpleasant stories > recounted by Salmani to illustrate Azal's gluttony. Shoghi Effendi was > always very careful in his accounts of Azal to confine his strictures > to his truly infamous conduct. He never stooped to making personal > criticisms of such a nature, which are unworthy , Publication of such > stories in the context of an annotated edition of a historical > document for scholarly study is one thing; publication in a book for > the general reader is quite another. Again, unfortunately, Kalimat > Press did not appreciate the reason for the committee's objection and > published the whole passage apart from a couple of brief deletions > which were of no significance. > > > > 3. p. 34. There is the account. of a disagreement between > Baha'u’llah and Azal over the shaving of Azal’s son's > head‑another unworthy story, the point of which is obscure. > > > > There are others of a similar character. > > > > The passages which have already been published in translation, such as > Azal's attempt to persuade Salmani to murder Baha'u'llah, provide > striking examples of the profound difference between publication in > the context of a properly balanced historical exposition, and > publication as unadorned parts of a narrative. > > > > In sum, to a knowledgeable Baha’i reader, Salmani’s > memoirs are a graphic illustration of the overwhelming problems with > which Baha'u'llah had to deal both from His enemies and because of the > actions of some of His own > > > > Cont'd/ .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole > > Page 4 > > > > > > faithful followers; but to an uninformed reader they give a misleading > and distorted picture of the Faith and of Baha'u'llah Himself. > > > > With loving Baha’i greetings, > > > > Loraine Kerfoot > > > > For Department of the Secretariat > > > > cc: The International Teaching Centre > > National Assembly of the United States > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpts from contemporaneous responses to the UHJ letter to J. Cole > from other Baha’i intellectuals who saw it: > > > > 1) Firuz Kazemzadeh, member of the National Spiritual > Assembly of the U.S. and Yale historian, was extremely upset about the > tampering with a primary source and offered to write a letter of > support for Kalimat Press in the affair. > > > > 2) Professor Amin Banani of UCLA, who had written the > introduction to the Salmani memoir, insisted that his name be removed > from the introduction because he declined to be associated with a > censored document. > > > > 3) Another intellectual observed the following: > > > > It is simply untrue to suppose that the average > reader is incapable of distinguishing between the statements and > actions of an individual believer and the official positions of the > institutions of the Faith. This is an elementary distinction of the > kind which is made every day by persons in all walks of life. This > must be particularly true of a manuscript of personal memoirs which is > over seventy years old. Using the House's example of the early > disciples of Christ, many of their failings and misunderstandings are > clearly recorded in the Gospels and in the Acts of the Apostles. > Christians (or others) do not automatically assume that these > shortcomings are approved by modern Churches or are accurate > portrayals of Christian standards. What sane reader of the Gospels > would propose that since Peter denied Christ three times or because he > used his sword to sever the ear of a Roman soldier in the garden of > Gethsemane, these must be Christian teachings or approved examples of > Christian conduct? > > > > If anything, the current policies of review which the House is > applying will serve to blur what would otherwise be a perfectly > obvious distinction. Since the House now insists that any published > personal memoirs, or other statements of personal opinion on the Faith > by Baha'is, must actually reflect official policy and contain no > statements or reminiscences that run counter to present practice the > argument that any individual opinion constitutes official policy > (which would otherwise appear absurd) gains some force. Of course, it > is just the opposite impression. which the House wants to make. > > > > For instance, the only reason that anyone might > suppose that Salmani's particular account of Baha'u'llah's exiles > might be considered by Baha'is_to be of some special significance is > that it is the only one that has been allowed in print. If there were > several personal accounts of this kind available, from different > points of view, the notion that Salmani's memoir is somehow special > would be held by no one. . . > > > > The letter to Juan Cole states that Salmani's account was published > without footnotes or commentary. Both were provided in > [Kalimat’s] edition . . . > > > > The intention of the House to protect the reputation of the Faith is > certainly to be appreciated, but it seems clear that this reputation > is more likely to be blackened by present policies of strict > censorship than by anything in the Salmani memoirs—not only for > non‑Baha'is, but also for loyal believers who find such policies > difficult to understand Moreover, such policies play right into the > hands of critics of the Faith (such as Denis MacEoin in England) who > are hard at work to portray the Faith as an anti‑democratic, > totalitarian, rigidly authoritarian religion, which has falsified and > distorted its own history. > > > > To addresss the specific objections of the ad hoc committee: > > > > 2. It is clear that Baha'u'llah never claimed to be the > Godhead, and this can be conclusively demonstrated by reference to His > own Writings. On the other hand, it is also clear that there were many > Baha'is who believed that He was. (And there certainly still are!) > Numerous references in the published works of E. G. Browne indicate > this clearly. This could easily be proven, by any scholar who bothered > to try. So, the offending sentence in Salmani's memoirs adds nothing > to what is not already known. > > Furthermore, Baha'is know that in a certain sense we > believe that Baha'u'llah is God, as is explained in the Iqan. > > Especially since the incident is not without humor, was > intended as an amusing story, and involves an ignorant villager (and > in the context: of the introduction of the book), it seems unlikely > that it would fuel our enemies or make us seem ridiculous. > > > > 2. The comments which Salmani makes about Mirza Aqa Jan's head are > admittedly curious. However, I would query the statement that they are > of nc historical importance. If we could understand what the comments > meant they may be of great interest. Salmani was, after all, a > barber, and he may have recorded something about Mirza Aqa Jan's head > that others have failed to mention. > > > > 3 & 4. The truly extraordinary standard for forbidding the publication > of passages‑‑that they are "unpleasant" or "unworthy" > ‑‑appears to establish a new standard for the review of > materials which was not used by the Guardian, or previously used by > the House of Justice. Such a new standard raises many questions: > > Salmani can hardly have been expected to conform to standards of > style and choice of material found in the Guardian's writings, since > he was writing before the Guardian began his ministry. Beyond this, > there.mu8t be room in Baha'i literature for different kinds of books. > Not all can be similar to the works of Shoghi Effendi. In this case, > we were publishing the personal memories and pilgrim's notes of an > illiterate barber. It is certainly unfair to compare them to the > writings of the Guardian. > > The objection that a particular passage is "unpleasant" or if > unworthy" is extremely vague. It is difficult to see how a reviewing > committee could be expected to apply such a standard. It could provide > license to forbid the publication of almost anything. > > The other question, of course, is “impleasant" to whom? I > do not find anything in the memoirs unpleasant or unworthy of > publication. Neither did the translator, or the author of the > introduction to the book. Nor did two Separate reviewing committee of > the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, one Persian and > one American, find anything of this kind in the manuscript. > > > > Concerning Azal's plot to murder Baha'u'llah‑‑the > descriptions of which the ad‑hoc committee felt should not be > included in the translation of Salmani's memoirs, since these > descriptions had already been published in translation in two separate > books published by George Ronald, it would have been truly remarkable > to omit them from a translation of the memoirs as a whole. It was > impossible for me to understand how such a request could be justified. > > > > The letter of the House of Justice states that there is no question of > suppressing records such as Salmani's memoirs. The dictionary defines > the word suppress as: "2: to keep from public knowledge: as a: to > keep secret b: to stop or prohibit the publica­tion or revelation of." > There can be little argument that the House of Justice intends to > suppress certain parts of Salmani's memoirs. That it does not intend > to do so forever is encouraging, but it does not change the current > condition under which Baha'i publishers must operate. Nor will the > intention to release such information in the future protect us much > from the attacks of scholars or other critics who wish to criticize us > on this point. > > > > > > 4) Juan Cole wrote the UHJ on 9 January 1983 in New Delhi: > > > > I remain convinced that the policy outlined by the Universal House of > Justice is an unfortunate one and that time will prove it incorrect. > At that point, I am sure that the Supreme Institution will, on the > basis of further information and considerations, abandon its current > stance. > > > > I firmly believe that it is essentially dishonest to > delete passages from manuscripts when they are published, whether in > the original or in translation, and no matter how temporarily. I feel > that it is also morally wrong for a public institution to withhold > documents, particularly ones over thirty years old, from scrutiny by > the public. Because I believe that such acts are wrong in principle, > no particular justifications for them can strike me as wholly > convincing. I further fear that such a policy of secretiveness and > bowdlerization will inevitably besmirch the fair name of the Faith of > Baha'u'llah. > > > > I am convinced that the Baha'i Faith has nothing to fear from the > historical records that have survived the nineteenth century. It, is > too sublime, too true to ever be sullied by anything mere human beings > have written or done, We Baha’is should face the historical > record, not with fear, dissimulation and blue pencils, but with > unshakeable certitude of the purity of our Cause. > > > > > > > > > > Final note: The example given by the UHJ of historical accounts being > allowed to be published was Moojan Momen’s The Babi and > Baha’i Religions: Some Contemporary Western Accounts (Oxford: > George Ronald, 1980). In fact, this book was also censored and > important material in the British Archives that the editor had planned > to include was taken out at the UHJ’s insistence. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > Return to Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi, and Baha'i Movements > > Return to H-Bahai Digital Publications > > Return to H-Bahai Home Page > > Links to pages with similar resources ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:59 AM Subject: FYI - Baha'i Authorities Tamper with primary sources about Baha'u'llah - Kalimat Press, Juan Cole Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements, Vol. 6, No. 1 (February 2002) https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol6/salmuhj.htm see also https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- The Censorship of Salmani's Memoirs by the Baha'i Authorities: Historical Documents from 1982 From materials in the private collections of Juan R. I. Cole ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE Department of the Secretariat 20 September 1982 Kalimat Press 10889 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 270 Los Angeles, California 90024 U.S.A. Dear Baha’i Friends, On 31 August 1982 the Universal House of Justice received a letter from Mr. Juan Cole expressing concern aver a number of points connected with its decision that certain passages, of the Salmani memoirs should not be published at this time. Shortly afterwards it was informed that Mr. . . . was also writing on this subject, and it decided to await the arrival of his letter before replying. However, Mr. Roger White has now shared with the House of Justice extracts from a personal letter he has received from Mr. . . . , and it has instructed us to send you the following clarification and comments without further delay. As you will recall from the letter we wrote to you on behalf of the Universal House of Justice on 19 August 1980, the special committee that the National Spiritual Assembly of' the United States had been asked to appoint to review Persian manuscripts was also given the responsibility of advising on the timeliness and wisdom of publishing such texts. The House of Justice then presumed that the Salmani memoirs were going through this process. In June 1982, however, one of the friends wrote to the House of Justice expressing his great concern at learning that the entire text of the Salmani memoirs was being copied out with the intent of publishing them. On receipt of this letter an enquiry was immediately made by telephone to Mr. Darakhshani, the secretary of the recently appointed reviewing committee for Persian publications, and he was asked to draw to your attention the unwisdom of publishing the book in full at this time. This was confirmed in a letter to Mr. Darakhshani on 30 June 1982. Your two cables of 1 and 15 July then arrived informing the House of Justice that, not only had the book been passed by review of both the Persian original and the English translation, but that it was actually /Cont'd.... Kalimat Press 20 September 1982 Los Angeles, California Page two at the printers. Realizing the urgency of the matter and aware that, apparently, the earlier committee appointed by the National Spiritual Assembly had not appreciated the problems of timeliness presented by this publication, the House of Justice instructed an ad hoc committee to immediately identify those few passages which were objectionable and to send them post‑haste to Mr. Darakhshani so that the proofs could be corrected and the printing go forward. The House of Justice greatly regrets that it had to intervene at the last minute in this way, and since it is clear that Kalimat Press had faithfully followed all the requirements for review, the House of Justice will pay the additional costs incurred as a result of the last‑minute changes. In addition to the general question, Mr. Cole in his letter has queried the reason for the excision of a number of passages. At the moment the House of Justice has before it only the original Persian manuscript, therefore it would appreciate your sending at your earliest convenience a copy of the typescript or proofs of the book, showing both the Persian and the English and whatever notes and footnotes you have added, so that it can consider the passages in detail and reply to the points that Mr. Cole has raised. With loving Baha'i greetings, Loraine Kerfoot For Department of the Secretariat cc: The National Spiritual of the United States , Mr. Juan Cole THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE Department of the Secretariat 2 December 1982 Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Department of Medieval and Modern History Lucknow University Lucknow 226007 India Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has now been able to compare the published edition of the Salmani memoirs with the Persian manuscript: and to consider the passages which the ad hoc committee had marked for deletion. It is clear that Kalimat Press scrupulously followed all the provisions for review of this book before publication, but, unfortunately the process has been dogged by a series of' misunderstandings and confusions. The House of Justice has instructed us to send you the following comments on the points raised in your letter of 13 August 1982. When the early correspondence took place between the World Centre and Kalimat Press concerning this publication, the House of Justice was relying on the discretion of the appropriate committee in the United States to check not only the normal review aspects, but also the timeliness and wisdom of such a publication. It did not itself check the manuscript. If it had done so it now concludes that it would not have given permission for its publication or translation at this time, for reasons which will be explained below. In June 1982, concern was expressed to the Universal House of Justice about the possible publication in full, in Persian, of these memoirs, and action was taken in July, in great haste, to eliminate the most harmful passages so that the publication of the book, which was already at the press, could proceed. Unfortunately at that time the ad hoc committee was unaware of the earlier correspondence and of the fact that certain passages had already been quoted in translation in books by Mr. Hasan Balyuzi and Mr. Adib Taherzadeh. Kalimat Press, in its turn, knowing of the prior publication of these passages, and not understanding the reasons for the proposed deletions, has, in fact, retained the larger part of the objectionable passages. The publication is a fait accompli and the House of Justice has therefore decided to permit it to stand, but not to) permit the publication of the Persian text which, in fact, would be more damaging than the English version. Cont'd/.... Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 2 To the points of substance which you have raised concerning the publication of historical texts, the House of Justice instructs us to explain the following In order to preserve basic information and historical materials for the use of future historians, the beloved Guardian instructed the communities throughout Iran to record the history of the Faith in their localities, and also gave instructions for the memoirs of a number of early believers to be written down and preserved. This was not a new advice and many friends, eyewitnesses of certain events, in the lives of Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l‑Baha, had already committed their reminiscences to writing. The memoirs of Ustad Muhammad‑`Aliy‑i‑Salmani are among, these and were written down from his spoken recollections in his old age. There is no question whatsoever of suppressing such records ‑ on the contrary, the whole purpose of having them made was to preserve them, and they have been made available to Baha'i historians, such as Mr. Balyuzi and Mr. Taherzadeh for use in their work. When excerpts are translated and published in such works, they are placed in context, related to other records and, where necessary, annotated and commented on. You will readily agree that such a use is not the same as publication in full, even if supplementary footnotes are added, and does not carry the same implications. . In time entire collections of early documents of the Faith will be published in scholarly editions for general use. An initial step in suclbrl a process is Dr. Moojan Momen's admirable book "The Babi and Baha’i Religions, 1.844‑1944 ‑ Some Contemporary Western Accounts". Additional considerations, however, have to be weighed in publishing texts by Baha'i writers. At the present time the general public, even if it has heard of the Faith, is largely uninformed or misinformed. An increasing amount of misinformation is continually being disseminated by opponents of the Faith, both in the east and in the west. The principal task of the Baha’is at the present time ‑ and especially of Baha’i scholars ‑ is to present a true picture of the Faith to the general public and to relate the Baha’i teachings to the concerns and problems of mankind. When a Baha'i publishing house issues a translation of a document such as Salmani's memoirs, the implication to an average reader is that the Baha’is consider this particular account worthy of publication, and, in the absence of adequate footnotes or commentary to the contrary, the reader will assume that Salmani's actions and statements are approved by Baha’is and are accurate portrayals of the Faith. After all, Salmani was a close companion of Baha’u’llah, comparable in the eyes of a Christian reader with one of the early disciples of Christ. Viewed in this light, certain of Salmani's accounts are misleading or Cont'd/ Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 3 unworthy and, apart from distorting the Faith for the average reader can provide material for the enemies of the Faith who at the present time are seizing every opportunity to attack the Cause and blacken its reputation. To take a few examples from the passages queried by the ad hoc committee: p. 17. There is a brief account of some believers from Sultanabad saying to Baha'u'llah "You being God, Uncle, why do You give us such a hard row to hoe?" It is an old accusation against the Baha’is, especially from Muslims, that we regard Baha'u'llah as God. To print such a story without an appropriate commentary gives fuel to our Muslim enemies and makes the Faith look ridiculous to a western reader. Unfortunately Kalimat Press, not realizing the reason for the objection, let the objectionable part stand and deleted a parenthetical comment "The Shi`is, however, were very hostile", which is entirely innocuous. p.30. There are some virtually incomprehensible comments about Mirza Aqa Jan’s head, which are of no historical importance but are unpleasant and unworthy. 3. pp. 31‑34. There are three unpleasant stories recounted by Salmani to illustrate Azal's gluttony. Shoghi Effendi was always very careful in his accounts of Azal to confine his strictures to his truly infamous conduct. He never stooped to making personal criticisms of such a nature, which are unworthy , Publication of such stories in the context of an annotated edition of a historical document for scholarly study is one thing; publication in a book for the general reader is quite another. Again, unfortunately, Kalimat Press did not appreciate the reason for the committee's objection and published the whole passage apart from a couple of brief deletions which were of no significance. 3. p. 34. There is the account. of a disagreement between Baha'u’llah and Azal over the shaving of Azal’s son's head‑another unworthy story, the point of which is obscure. There are others of a similar character. The passages which have already been published in translation, such as Azal's attempt to persuade Salmani to murder Baha'u'llah, provide striking examples of the profound difference between publication in the context of a properly balanced historical exposition, and publication as unadorned parts of a narrative. In sum, to a knowledgeable Baha’i reader, Salmani’s memoirs are a graphic illustration of the overwhelming problems with which Baha'u'llah had to deal both from His enemies and because of the actions of some of His own Cont'd/ .... Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 4 faithful followers; but to an uninformed reader they give a misleading and distorted picture of the Faith and of Baha'u'llah Himself. With loving Baha’i greetings, Loraine Kerfoot For Department of the Secretariat cc: The International Teaching Centre National Assembly of the United States Excerpts from contemporaneous responses to the UHJ letter to J. Cole from other Baha’i intellectuals who saw it: 1) Firuz Kazemzadeh, member of the National Spiritual Assembly of the U.S. and Yale historian, was extremely upset about the tampering with a primary source and offered to write a letter of support for Kalimat Press in the affair. 2) Professor Amin Banani of UCLA, who had written the introduction to the Salmani memoir, insisted that his name be removed from the introduction because he declined to be associated with a censored document. 3) Another intellectual observed the following: It is simply untrue to suppose that the average reader is incapable of distinguishing between the statements and actions of an individual believer and the official positions of the institutions of the Faith. This is an elementary distinction of the kind which is made every day by persons in all walks of life. This must be particularly true of a manuscript of personal memoirs which is over seventy years old. Using the House's example of the early disciples of Christ, many of their failings and misunderstandings are clearly recorded in the Gospels and in the Acts of the Apostles. Christians (or others) do not automatically assume that these shortcomings are approved by modern Churches or are accurate portrayals of Christian standards. What sane reader of the Gospels would propose that since Peter denied Christ three times or because he used his sword to sever the ear of a Roman soldier in the garden of Gethsemane, these must be Christian teachings or approved examples of Christian conduct? If anything, the current policies of review which the House is applying will serve to blur what would otherwise be a perfectly obvious distinction. Since the House now insists that any published personal memoirs, or other statements of personal opinion on the Faith by Baha'is, must actually reflect official policy and contain no statements or reminiscences that run counter to present practice the argument that any individual opinion constitutes official policy (which would otherwise appear absurd) gains some force. Of course, it is just the opposite impression. which the House wants to make. For instance, the only reason that anyone might suppose that Salmani's particular account of Baha'u'llah's exiles might be considered by Baha'is_to be of some special significance is that it is the only one that has been allowed in print. If there were several personal accounts of this kind available, from different points of view, the notion that Salmani's memoir is somehow special would be held by no one. . . The letter to Juan Cole states that Salmani's account was published without footnotes or commentary. Both were provided in [Kalimat’s] edition . . . The intention of the House to protect the reputation of the Faith is certainly to be appreciated, but it seems clear that this reputation is more likely to be blackened by present policies of strict censorship than by anything in the Salmani memoirs—not only for non‑Baha'is, but also for loyal believers who find such policies difficult to understand Moreover, such policies play right into the hands of critics of the Faith (such as Denis MacEoin in England) who are hard at work to portray the Faith as an anti‑democratic, totalitarian, rigidly authoritarian religion, which has falsified and distorted its own history. To addresss the specific objections of the ad hoc committee: 2. It is clear that Baha'u'llah never claimed to be the Godhead, and this can be conclusively demonstrated by reference to His own Writings. On the other hand, it is also clear that there were many Baha'is who believed that He was. (And there certainly still are!) Numerous references in the published works of E. G. Browne indicate this clearly. This could easily be proven, by any scholar who bothered to try. So, the offending sentence in Salmani's memoirs adds nothing to what is not already known. Furthermore, Baha'is know that in a certain sense we believe that Baha'u'llah is God, as is explained in the Iqan. Especially since the incident is not without humor, was intended as an amusing story, and involves an ignorant villager (and in the context: of the introduction of the book), it seems unlikely that it would fuel our enemies or make us seem ridiculous. 2. The comments which Salmani makes about Mirza Aqa Jan's head are admittedly curious. However, I would query the statement that they are of nc historical importance. If we could understand what the comments meant they may be of great interest. Salmani was, after all, a barber, and he may have recorded something about Mirza Aqa Jan's head that others have failed to mention. 3 & 4. The truly extraordinary standard for forbidding the publication of passages‑‑that they are "unpleasant" or "unworthy" ‑‑appears to establish a new standard for the review of materials which was not used by the Guardian, or previously used by the House of Justice. Such a new standard raises many questions: Salmani can hardly have been expected to conform to standards of style and choice of material found in the Guardian's writings, since he was writing before the Guardian began his ministry. Beyond this, there.mu8t be room in Baha'i literature for different kinds of books. Not all can be similar to the works of Shoghi Effendi. In this case, we were publishing the personal memories and pilgrim's notes of an illiterate barber. It is certainly unfair to compare them to the writings of the Guardian. The objection that a particular passage is "unpleasant" or if unworthy" is extremely vague. It is difficult to see how a reviewing committee could be expected to apply such a standard. It could provide license to forbid the publication of almost anything. The other question, of course, is “impleasant" to whom? I do not find anything in the memoirs unpleasant or unworthy of publication. Neither did the translator, or the author of the introduction to the book. Nor did two Separate reviewing committee of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, one Persian and one American, find anything of this kind in the manuscript. Concerning Azal's plot to murder Baha'u'llah‑‑the descriptions of which the ad‑hoc committee felt should not be included in the translation of Salmani's memoirs, since these descriptions had already been published in translation in two separate books published by George Ronald, it would have been truly remarkable to omit them from a translation of the memoirs as a whole. It was impossible for me to understand how such a request could be justified. The letter of the House of Justice states that there is no question of suppressing records such as Salmani's memoirs. The dictionary defines the word suppress as: "2: to keep from public knowledge: as a: to keep secret b: to stop or prohibit the publica­tion or revelation of." There can be little argument that the House of Justice intends to suppress certain parts of Salmani's memoirs. That it does not intend to do so forever is encouraging, but it does not change the current condition under which Baha'i publishers must operate. Nor will the intention to release such information in the future protect us much from the attacks of scholars or other critics who wish to criticize us on this point. 4) Juan Cole wrote the UHJ on 9 January 1983 in New Delhi: I remain convinced that the policy outlined by the Universal House of Justice is an unfortunate one and that time will prove it incorrect. At that point, I am sure that the Supreme Institution will, on the basis of further information and considerations, abandon its current stance. I firmly believe that it is essentially dishonest to delete passages from manuscripts when they are published, whether in the original or in translation, and no matter how temporarily. I feel that it is also morally wrong for a public institution to withhold documents, particularly ones over thirty years old, from scrutiny by the public. Because I believe that such acts are wrong in principle, no particular justifications for them can strike me as wholly convincing. I further fear that such a policy of secretiveness and bowdlerization will inevitably besmirch the fair name of the Faith of Baha'u'llah. I am convinced that the Baha'i Faith has nothing to fear from the historical records that have survived the nineteenth century. It, is too sublime, too true to ever be sullied by anything mere human beings have written or done, We Baha’is should face the historical record, not with fear, dissimulation and blue pencils, but with unshakeable certitude of the purity of our Cause. Final note: The example given by the UHJ of historical accounts being allowed to be published was Moojan Momen’s The Babi and Baha’i Religions: Some Contemporary Western Accounts (Oxford: George Ronald, 1980). In fact, this book was also censored and important material in the British Archives that the editor had planned to include was taken out at the UHJ’s insistence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Return to Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi, and Baha'i Movements Return to H-Bahai Digital Publications Return to H-Bahai Home Page Links to pages with similar resources ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 8:51 AM Subject: To understand what lies behind fundamentalist facades here on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai, one might want to consider, To understand what lies behind fundamentalist facades here on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai, one might want to consider, as evidence, the following message: https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 11:48 AM Subject: bahai - Fundamentalist Damage Control & Flooding talk.religion.bahai "Freethought110" wrote in message news:a571se$cu2$1@gnamma.connect.com.au... > Anyone notice the number of posts our resident fundalooniests and their spin > doctors are posting since the Aug 1999 letter was posted. The justifications > offered are great evidence, not to mention field research, that the *baha'i > technique* exists. Fred, I hope you're archiving all this stuff. I believe your speculations about damage control are quite right. The fundamentalists are clearly flooding talk.religion.bahai as an attempt to bury what they do not want non-bahais to know about. Yet so many other people have now remarked on "The Bahai Technique" that few outside observers of the bahai wars can doubt it any longer. I've thought for a very long time that most newcomers here soon realize the fundamentalists are completely dishonest. I'm sure the intelligence of newcomers can be trusted. "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm I've never bothered to directly archive the extremists among my fellow bahais. Dejanews and now www.google.com have done a very thorough job of that. It should be noted that www.google.com does not allow messages to be deleted so anything posted to Usenet has long been archived and preserved by them. Consider too that the gem below will always be there. To understand what lies behind fundamentalist facades here on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai, one might want to consider it, as evidence: https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.g oogle.com&output=gplain I think the non-bahais of good judgement who happen along here can indeed be trusted to understand truth from falsehood. Overall, they won't be hoodwinked by our resident spin controllers, exactly what the spin controllers fear, and have now for so many years.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 11:52 AM Subject: FYI - FULL TEXT HERE - Baha'i Authorities Tamper with primary sources about Baha'u'llah - READ ALL ABOUT IT!!!!! Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements, Vol. 6, No. 1 (February 2002) https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol6/salmuhj.htm see also https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- The Censorship of Salmani's Memoirs by the Baha'i Authorities: Historical Documents from 1982 From materials in the private collections of Juan R. I. Cole ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE Department of the Secretariat 20 September 1982 Kalimat Press 10889 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 270 Los Angeles, California 90024 U.S.A. Dear Baha’i Friends, On 31 August 1982 the Universal House of Justice received a letter from Mr. Juan Cole expressing concern aver a number of points connected with its decision that certain passages, of the Salmani memoirs should not be published at this time. Shortly afterwards it was informed that Mr. . . . was also writing on this subject, and it decided to await the arrival of his letter before replying. However, Mr. Roger White has now shared with the House of Justice extracts from a personal letter he has received from Mr. . . . , and it has instructed us to send you the following clarification and comments without further delay. As you will recall from the letter we wrote to you on behalf of the Universal House of Justice on 19 August 1980, the special committee that the National Spiritual Assembly of' the United States had been asked to appoint to review Persian manuscripts was also given the responsibility of advising on the timeliness and wisdom of publishing such texts. The House of Justice then presumed that the Salmani memoirs were going through this process. In June 1982, however, one of the friends wrote to the House of Justice expressing his great concern at learning that the entire text of the Salmani memoirs was being copied out with the intent of publishing them. On receipt of this letter an enquiry was immediately made by telephone to Mr. Darakhshani, the secretary of the recently appointed reviewing committee for Persian publications, and he was asked to draw to your attention the unwisdom of publishing the book in full at this time. This was confirmed in a letter to Mr. Darakhshani on 30 June 1982. Your two cables of 1 and 15 July then arrived informing the House of Justice that, not only had the book been passed by review of both the Persian original and the English translation, but that it was actually /Cont'd.... Kalimat Press 20 September 1982 Los Angeles, California Page two at the printers. Realizing the urgency of the matter and aware that, apparently, the earlier committee appointed by the National Spiritual Assembly had not appreciated the problems of timeliness presented by this publication, the House of Justice instructed an ad hoc committee to immediately identify those few passages which were objectionable and to send them post‑haste to Mr. Darakhshani so that the proofs could be corrected and the printing go forward. The House of Justice greatly regrets that it had to intervene at the last minute in this way, and since it is clear that Kalimat Press had faithfully followed all the requirements for review, the House of Justice will pay the additional costs incurred as a result of the last‑minute changes. In addition to the general question, Mr. Cole in his letter has queried the reason for the excision of a number of passages. At the moment the House of Justice has before it only the original Persian manuscript, therefore it would appreciate your sending at your earliest convenience a copy of the typescript or proofs of the book, showing both the Persian and the English and whatever notes and footnotes you have added, so that it can consider the passages in detail and reply to the points that Mr. Cole has raised. With loving Baha'i greetings, Loraine Kerfoot For Department of the Secretariat cc: The National Spiritual of the United States , Mr. Juan Cole THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE Department of the Secretariat 2 December 1982 Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Department of Medieval and Modern History Lucknow University Lucknow 226007 India Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has now been able to compare the published edition of the Salmani memoirs with the Persian manuscript: and to consider the passages which the ad hoc committee had marked for deletion. It is clear that Kalimat Press scrupulously followed all the provisions for review of this book before publication, but, unfortunately the process has been dogged by a series of' misunderstandings and confusions. The House of Justice has instructed us to send you the following comments on the points raised in your letter of 13 August 1982. When the early correspondence took place between the World Centre and Kalimat Press concerning this publication, the House of Justice was relying on the discretion of the appropriate committee in the United States to check not only the normal review aspects, but also the timeliness and wisdom of such a publication. It did not itself check the manuscript. If it had done so it now concludes that it would not have given permission for its publication or translation at this time, for reasons which will be explained below. In June 1982, concern was expressed to the Universal House of Justice about the possible publication in full, in Persian, of these memoirs, and action was taken in July, in great haste, to eliminate the most harmful passages so that the publication of the book, which was already at the press, could proceed. Unfortunately at that time the ad hoc committee was unaware of the earlier correspondence and of the fact that certain passages had already been quoted in translation in books by Mr. Hasan Balyuzi and Mr. Adib Taherzadeh. Kalimat Press, in its turn, knowing of the prior publication of these passages, and not understanding the reasons for the proposed deletions, has, in fact, retained the larger part of the objectionable passages. The publication is a fait accompli and the House of Justice has therefore decided to permit it to stand, but not to) permit the publication of the Persian text which, in fact, would be more damaging than the English version. Cont'd/.... Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 2 To the points of substance which you have raised concerning the publication of historical texts, the House of Justice instructs us to explain the following In order to preserve basic information and historical materials for the use of future historians, the beloved Guardian instructed the communities throughout Iran to record the history of the Faith in their localities, and also gave instructions for the memoirs of a number of early believers to be written down and preserved. This was not a new advice and many friends, eyewitnesses of certain events, in the lives of Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l‑Baha, had already committed their reminiscences to writing. The memoirs of Ustad Muhammad‑`Aliy‑i‑Salmani are among, these and were written down from his spoken recollections in his old age. There is no question whatsoever of suppressing such records ‑ on the contrary, the whole purpose of having them made was to preserve them, and they have been made available to Baha'i historians, such as Mr. Balyuzi and Mr. Taherzadeh for use in their work. When excerpts are translated and published in such works, they are placed in context, related to other records and, where necessary, annotated and commented on. You will readily agree that such a use is not the same as publication in full, even if supplementary footnotes are added, and does not carry the same implications. . In time entire collections of early documents of the Faith will be published in scholarly editions for general use. An initial step in suclbrl a process is Dr. Moojan Momen's admirable book "The Babi and Baha’i Religions, 1.844‑1944 ‑ Some Contemporary Western Accounts". Additional considerations, however, have to be weighed in publishing texts by Baha'i writers. At the present time the general public, even if it has heard of the Faith, is largely uninformed or misinformed. An increasing amount of misinformation is continually being disseminated by opponents of the Faith, both in the east and in the west. The principal task of the Baha’is at the present time ‑ and especially of Baha’i scholars ‑ is to present a true picture of the Faith to the general public and to relate the Baha’i teachings to the concerns and problems of mankind. When a Baha'i publishing house issues a translation of a document such as Salmani's memoirs, the implication to an average reader is that the Baha’is consider this particular account worthy of publication, and, in the absence of adequate footnotes or commentary to the contrary, the reader will assume that Salmani's actions and statements are approved by Baha’is and are accurate portrayals of the Faith. After all, Salmani was a close companion of Baha’u’llah, comparable in the eyes of a Christian reader with one of the early disciples of Christ. Viewed in this light, certain of Salmani's accounts are misleading or Cont'd/ Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 3 unworthy and, apart from distorting the Faith for the average reader can provide material for the enemies of the Faith who at the present time are seizing every opportunity to attack the Cause and blacken its reputation. To take a few examples from the passages queried by the ad hoc committee: p. 17. There is a brief account of some believers from Sultanabad saying to Baha'u'llah "You being God, Uncle, why do You give us such a hard row to hoe?" It is an old accusation against the Baha’is, especially from Muslims, that we regard Baha'u'llah as God. To print such a story without an appropriate commentary gives fuel to our Muslim enemies and makes the Faith look ridiculous to a western reader. Unfortunately Kalimat Press, not realizing the reason for the objection, let the objectionable part stand and deleted a parenthetical comment "The Shi`is, however, were very hostile", which is entirely innocuous. p.30. There are some virtually incomprehensible comments about Mirza Aqa Jan’s head, which are of no historical importance but are unpleasant and unworthy. 3. pp. 31‑34. There are three unpleasant stories recounted by Salmani to illustrate Azal's gluttony. Shoghi Effendi was always very careful in his accounts of Azal to confine his strictures to his truly infamous conduct. He never stooped to making personal criticisms of such a nature, which are unworthy , Publication of such stories in the context of an annotated edition of a historical document for scholarly study is one thing; publication in a book for the general reader is quite another. Again, unfortunately, Kalimat Press did not appreciate the reason for the committee's objection and published the whole passage apart from a couple of brief deletions which were of no significance. 3. p. 34. There is the account. of a disagreement between Baha'u’llah and Azal over the shaving of Azal’s son's head‑another unworthy story, the point of which is obscure. There are others of a similar character. The passages which have already been published in translation, such as Azal's attempt to persuade Salmani to murder Baha'u'llah, provide striking examples of the profound difference between publication in the context of a properly balanced historical exposition, and publication as unadorned parts of a narrative. In sum, to a knowledgeable Baha’i reader, Salmani’s memoirs are a graphic illustration of the overwhelming problems with which Baha'u'llah had to deal both from His enemies and because of the actions of some of His own Cont'd/ .... Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 4 faithful followers; but to an uninformed reader they give a misleading and distorted picture of the Faith and of Baha'u'llah Himself. With loving Baha’i greetings, Loraine Kerfoot For Department of the Secretariat cc: The International Teaching Centre National Assembly of the United States Excerpts from contemporaneous responses to the UHJ letter to J. Cole from other Baha’i intellectuals who saw it: 1) Firuz Kazemzadeh, member of the National Spiritual Assembly of the U.S. and Yale historian, was extremely upset about the tampering with a primary source and offered to write a letter of support for Kalimat Press in the affair. 2) Professor Amin Banani of UCLA, who had written the introduction to the Salmani memoir, insisted that his name be removed from the introduction because he declined to be associated with a censored document. 3) Another intellectual observed the following: It is simply untrue to suppose that the average reader is incapable of distinguishing between the statements and actions of an individual believer and the official positions of the institutions of the Faith. This is an elementary distinction of the kind which is made every day by persons in all walks of life. This must be particularly true of a manuscript of personal memoirs which is over seventy years old. Using the House's example of the early disciples of Christ, many of their failings and misunderstandings are clearly recorded in the Gospels and in the Acts of the Apostles. Christians (or others) do not automatically assume that these shortcomings are approved by modern Churches or are accurate portrayals of Christian standards. What sane reader of the Gospels would propose that since Peter denied Christ three times or because he used his sword to sever the ear of a Roman soldier in the garden of Gethsemane, these must be Christian teachings or approved examples of Christian conduct? If anything, the current policies of review which the House is applying will serve to blur what would otherwise be a perfectly obvious distinction. Since the House now insists that any published personal memoirs, or other statements of personal opinion on the Faith by Baha'is, must actually reflect official policy and contain no statements or reminiscences that run counter to present practice the argument that any individual opinion constitutes official policy (which would otherwise appear absurd) gains some force. Of course, it is just the opposite impression. which the House wants to make. For instance, the only reason that anyone might suppose that Salmani's particular account of Baha'u'llah's exiles might be considered by Baha'is_to be of some special significance is that it is the only one that has been allowed in print. If there were several personal accounts of this kind available, from different points of view, the notion that Salmani's memoir is somehow special would be held by no one. . . The letter to Juan Cole states that Salmani's account was published without footnotes or commentary. Both were provided in [Kalimat’s] edition . . . The intention of the House to protect the reputation of the Faith is certainly to be appreciated, but it seems clear that this reputation is more likely to be blackened by present policies of strict censorship than by anything in the Salmani memoirs—not only for non‑Baha'is, but also for loyal believers who find such policies difficult to understand Moreover, such policies play right into the hands of critics of the Faith (such as Denis MacEoin in England) who are hard at work to portray the Faith as an anti‑democratic, totalitarian, rigidly authoritarian religion, which has falsified and distorted its own history. To addresss the specific objections of the ad hoc committee: 2. It is clear that Baha'u'llah never claimed to be the Godhead, and this can be conclusively demonstrated by reference to His own Writings. On the other hand, it is also clear that there were many Baha'is who believed that He was. (And there certainly still are!) Numerous references in the published works of E. G. Browne indicate this clearly. This could easily be proven, by any scholar who bothered to try. So, the offending sentence in Salmani's memoirs adds nothing to what is not already known. Furthermore, Baha'is know that in a certain sense we believe that Baha'u'llah is God, as is explained in the Iqan. Especially since the incident is not without humor, was intended as an amusing story, and involves an ignorant villager (and in the context: of the introduction of the book), it seems unlikely that it would fuel our enemies or make us seem ridiculous. 2. The comments which Salmani makes about Mirza Aqa Jan's head are admittedly curious. However, I would query the statement that they are of nc historical importance. If we could understand what the comments meant they may be of great interest. Salmani was, after all, a barber, and he may have recorded something about Mirza Aqa Jan's head that others have failed to mention. 3 & 4. The truly extraordinary standard for forbidding the publication of passages‑‑that they are "unpleasant" or "unworthy" ‑‑appears to establish a new standard for the review of materials which was not used by the Guardian, or previously used by the House of Justice. Such a new standard raises many questions: Salmani can hardly have been expected to conform to standards of style and choice of material found in the Guardian's writings, since he was writing before the Guardian began his ministry. Beyond this, there.mu8t be room in Baha'i literature for different kinds of books. Not all can be similar to the works of Shoghi Effendi. In this case, we were publishing the personal memories and pilgrim's notes of an illiterate barber. It is certainly unfair to compare them to the writings of the Guardian. The objection that a particular passage is "unpleasant" or if unworthy" is extremely vague. It is difficult to see how a reviewing committee could be expected to apply such a standard. It could provide license to forbid the publication of almost anything. The other question, of course, is “impleasant" to whom? I do not find anything in the memoirs unpleasant or unworthy of publication. Neither did the translator, or the author of the introduction to the book. Nor did two Separate reviewing committee of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, one Persian and one American, find anything of this kind in the manuscript. Concerning Azal's plot to murder Baha'u'llah‑‑the descriptions of which the ad‑hoc committee felt should not be included in the translation of Salmani's memoirs, since these descriptions had already been published in translation in two separate books published by George Ronald, it would have been truly remarkable to omit them from a translation of the memoirs as a whole. It was impossible for me to understand how such a request could be justified. The letter of the House of Justice states that there is no question of suppressing records such as Salmani's memoirs. The dictionary defines the word suppress as: "2: to keep from public knowledge: as a: to keep secret b: to stop or prohibit the publica­tion or revelation of." There can be little argument that the House of Justice intends to suppress certain parts of Salmani's memoirs. That it does not intend to do so forever is encouraging, but it does not change the current condition under which Baha'i publishers must operate. Nor will the intention to release such information in the future protect us much from the attacks of scholars or other critics who wish to criticize us on this point. 4) Juan Cole wrote the UHJ on 9 January 1983 in New Delhi: I remain convinced that the policy outlined by the Universal House of Justice is an unfortunate one and that time will prove it incorrect. At that point, I am sure that the Supreme Institution will, on the basis of further information and considerations, abandon its current stance. I firmly believe that it is essentially dishonest to delete passages from manuscripts when they are published, whether in the original or in translation, and no matter how temporarily. I feel that it is also morally wrong for a public institution to withhold documents, particularly ones over thirty years old, from scrutiny by the public. Because I believe that such acts are wrong in principle, no particular justifications for them can strike me as wholly convincing. I further fear that such a policy of secretiveness and bowdlerization will inevitably besmirch the fair name of the Faith of Baha'u'llah. I am convinced that the Baha'i Faith has nothing to fear from the historical records that have survived the nineteenth century. It, is too sublime, too true to ever be sullied by anything mere human beings have written or done, We Baha’is should face the historical record, not with fear, dissimulation and blue pencils, but with unshakeable certitude of the purity of our Cause. Final note: The example given by the UHJ of historical accounts being allowed to be published was Moojan Momen’s The Babi and Baha’i Religions: Some Contemporary Western Accounts (Oxford: George Ronald, 1980). In fact, this book was also censored and important material in the British Archives that the editor had planned to include was taken out at the UHJ’s insistence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Return to Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi, and Baha'i Movements Return to H-Bahai Digital Publications Return to H-Bahai Home Page Links to pages with similar resources ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 11:53 AM Subject: bahai - FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S Fortress of Well-Being - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S Fortress of Well-Being - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers: https://www.kalimat.com/ Compare Prof. Juan Cole's response to excerpts of this letter at https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm Three reviews of Cole's book, from different perspectives, may be found at Modernity and the Millennium https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/reviews-cole.htm For the use of similarly coercive tactics by the bahai administration, see Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email of 1997. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm For the uninformed, it should be noted, beforehand, that it has been alleged by a number of bahais and ex-bahais, that the uhj has apparently forced some couples to divorce in order to prove their loyalty and obedience and some family members to cease associating with siblings, children, and parents. The full text below also available at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ----------------- August 1999 Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX U.S.A. Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write as follows. A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of the Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your relationship with the Baha'i Faith. As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your actions would not again give cause for such intervention. It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of Justice has asked us to address. Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of Mr. XXXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 2 attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to foist this caricature of Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 3 the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with their purpose. The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the case with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 4 The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results"? The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents of this present letter. In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you have, alas, been pursuing. The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you face. With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:06 AM Subject: Excellent definition of "love bombing." From: "Dermod Ryder" This is what is known as the "love bomb" technique. Disregard and entirely ignore the substance of any complaint or criticism and throw out this carpet of "bahai love" which will overwhelm the reason and appeal to the emotion. I've been vaccinated! What I also glean from recourse to this technique is that there is no answer to the points I raised. In effect you guys who support the AO do so through thick and thin to the point where you cannot and will not admit that it has any faults of any substantive value. Because guys like me cannot agree with you - the fault is obviously ours. -- Excellent definition of "love bombing." -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Note to newcomers to Unmoderated Bahai Newsgroups Michael, It's been over thirty years since I read Plutarch. How good of you to remind us of him. "No wild beast is more savage than man when his passions are armed with power." My kind of writer.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:a5om1i$coo$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Greetings, Dermod, Paul and anyone interested in the Roman Way. > Actually, Marcus Tullius Cicero did not commit suicide, other than > by exercising freedom of speech and opposing Mark Anthony's less than > perfect exercise of power. Oh, and there was that little wordplay -- > one of those rijal like words that can get one into trouble. You know: > "The boy is to be praised, honoured and extolled." Ha!Ha! Extolled, get > it ("shoved aside"). But you know Plutarch says that Caesar ("The boy", > Augustus) held out for two days and only on the third day did he give > in to Mark Anthony's demand that Cicero's name be included: > "A list was drawn up of the names of more than 200 men who were to > be put to death. But what caused most trouble at their discussions was the > question of including Cicero's name in this list. Antony refused to come > to terms unless Cicero was marked down first for death; Lepidus sided with > Antony, and Caesar held out against them both. They met secretly by > themselves by the city of Bononia, and these meetings lasted for three > days. They came together at a place surrounded by a river and at some > distance from their camps. It is said that for the first two days Caesar > kept up the struggle to save Cicero, but gave in on the third day and > abandoned him. The terms of their mutual concessions were as follows: > Caesar was to desert Cicero, Lepidus, his brother Paulus, and Antony, > Lucius Caesar, who was his uncle on his mother's side. So all > considerations of humanity were swept aside by their rage and fury; or was > this, rather, a demonstration that no wild beast is more savage than man > when his passions are armed with power." Plutarch, life of Cicero, in > FALL OF THE ROMAN REPUBLIC, Penguin, transl. Rex Warner, p. 317 > The story continues with the account of Cicero trying to escape the > assassins, but his path is indicated to them, they come upon him, he orders > his litter set down, he sticks his head out and his throat is cut. > "He was in his sixty-fourth year. By Antony's orders Herennius cut off > his head and his hands -- the hands with which he had written the > Philippics."... > "A long time afterwards, so I have been told, Caesar was visiting the > son of one of his daughters. The boy had a book of Cicero's in his hands > and, terrified of his grandfather, tried to hide it under his cloak. > Caesar noticed this and, after taking the book from him, stood there and > read a great part of it. He then handed it back to the young man with the > words: 'A learned man, my child, a learned man and a lover of his country.'" > To M. Tullius Cicero, Michael. > > "Dermod Ryder" (Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com) writes: > > "Pat Kohli" wrote in message > > news:3C7D8645.C7F176E1@ameritel.net... > >> > >> > >> Paul Hammond wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > I thought that an Emperor (Augustus?) made him "take the roman > >> > way" after a lifetime of opposing the death of the republic. > >> > > >> > >> I thought the Roman Way was bulemia, or something like it. > > > > The Roman way was to open your wrists with a knife whilst in a hot > > bath! The Emperors often offered it to their enemies - it saved the > > expense of a trial especially when there wasn't much in the way of > > evidence. The inducement was that one's property remained with the > > family and was not forfeit to the State. > > > > Could the A Onions make this popular - maybe declining to confer the > > CB tag and consequent damnation if one did the decent thing .... ? ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 12:37 PM Subject: Re: General question about Fred G. and the like... Larry, Thank you for having the courage to speak your mind. Could you please provide a book and page reference for the quotation? I'd appreciate it. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Larry Rowe" wrote in message news:3c80b978_1@dns.sd54.bc.ca... > Hello all , > > The Universal House of Justice is wrong when it breaches the following > keynote of the Cause of God in its interactions with believers . > > "Lets us bear in mind that the keynote of the Cause of God is not > dictatorial authority but humble fellowship , not arbitrary power , but the > spirit of frank and loving consultation ."~Shoghi Effendi~ > > That the Universal House of Justice has breached this keynote of the Cause > of God is clear to all who have looked into their treatment of Alison > Marshall concerning her removal from Bahai' membership . > > They have behaved in a very unBaha'i like manner and instead of "humble > fellowship" they used "dictatorial authority" instead of "frank and loving > consultation" they used arbitrary power . > > Infallibilty means never having to say your sorry . > > The thesis of the infallibilty of the Universal House of Justice needs to > be examined . > > Yours Larry Rowe > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Cultic Studies Journal article Congratulations! I look forward to reading it. Please provide us with a link directly to CSJ if or when your article appears on their site. Not much to disagree with in the enticing abstract! "Abstract: The Baha'i Faith, best-known for its liberal social teachings and tolerance towards other religions, has an authoritarian governing structure that has caused a high level of disillusionment among adherents. Because of the religion's stress on unity, there is considerable insecurity about the expression of dissent and a fear of internal enemies. Conformity is enforced by sanctions, excommunication, and shunning, and information is controlled through a system of censorship. Although the religion is governed by elected institutions, they are not held accountable to the electorate. Moreover, the supreme governing institution is believed to be infallible. While the spread of the Internet in the 1990s has weakened the administration's control of information, the Baha'i leadership has threatened and sanctioned liberal intellectuals for the expression of their opinions on email forums." https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:u8375mr9o6ab99@corp.supernews.com... > My article "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" > is now in print and available on my website: > https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html > > Cultic Studies Journal has said that comments, both positive and negative > are welcome. > > Karen Bacquet > > -- > "The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice . . ." -- > Baha'u'llah > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:32 AM Subject: ATTN - Nima - Maneck's slander of you on AOL Subject: Re: Censorship means * to distrust * Date: 3/3/2002 12:03 AM Eastern Standard Time From: Smaneck Message-id: <20020303000305.20949.00002450@mb-cg.aol.com> > > Nima? Is that a fanatic of some kind? If you don't know him, never mind. He is one of the dissidents who withdrew from the Faith. warmest, Susan https://www.susanmaneck.com ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Cultic Studies Journal article Karen, Re: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html I understand it can take many journals a very long time to get a piece published and distributed. I remember a horrifying five-year wait I had on one essay. Does something to soul, though, not all bad. Anyway, I've printed off your article this morning and look forward to reading it. Do give us a heads-up on its online appearance. Incidentally, I think you've achieved a major victory for the defense of the principles Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha extolled by publishing such an informative article in a publication of the American Family Foundation. For those unfamiliar with AFF, see https://www.csj.org/aff/aff_about.htm I have for years tried unsuccessfully to help them understand how things actually stand within everyday bahai circles. Respectfully, Fred The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:u84fajrqf4m688@corp.supernews.com... > > > -- > "The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice . . ." -- > Baha'u'llah > Bahai Faith wrote in message > news:a5tbms$a3csd$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Congratulations! I look forward to reading it. Please > > provide us with a link directly to CSJ if or when your > > article appears on their site. > > Dear Fred, > > I was told that the article will eventually appear in AFF's online journal > *Cults and Society*, but I expect that will take a while. After all, this > issue of CSJ that just came out is the 2001 volume, so it looks like things > move pretty slowly. It was actually the online journal that I originally > queried about, then the editor invited me to write for the print journal. > Anyway, I'll let you know when the article appears on their site. > > Love, Karen > https://www.bacquet.tk > > > > > Not much to disagree with in the enticing abstract! > > > > "Abstract: The Baha'i Faith, best-known for its liberal social teachings > and > > tolerance towards other religions, has an authoritarian governing > structure > > that has caused a high level of disillusionment among adherents. Because > of > > the religion's stress on unity, there is considerable insecurity about the > > expression of dissent and a fear of internal enemies. Conformity is > enforced > > by sanctions, excommunication, and shunning, and information is controlled > > through a system of censorship. Although the religion is governed by > elected > > institutions, they are not held accountable to the electorate. Moreover, > the > > supreme governing institution is believed to be infallible. While the > spread > > of the Internet in the 1990s has weakened the administration's control of > > information, the Baha'i leadership has threatened and sanctioned liberal > > intellectuals for the expression of their opinions on email forums." > > https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message > > news:u8375mr9o6ab99@corp.supernews.com... > > > My article "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i > Community" > > > is now in print and available on my website: > > > https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html > > > > > > Cultic Studies Journal has said that comments, both positive and > negative > > > are welcome. > > > > > > Karen Bacquet > > > > > > -- > > > "The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice . . ." -- > > > Baha'u'llah > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:10 AM Subject: Re: Two more Baha'is Martyred in Central Asia - MSG from the Baha'i World Center I'm saddened to hear of anyone's death, including fellow bahais. How is the fanaticism of the uhj any different from the extremisim of the murderers? I and many others believe the same intolerant fundamentalism, essentially, now pervades the so-called administrative order.... July 24, 1998: As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ72498.htm The same litany of lies and attempts to monopolize on the murder of these recent victims of fanaticism will certainly be soon pouring out of the portals of bahai fundamentalism.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Pat Kohli" wrote in message news:3C840A84.132AB56A@ameritel.net... > Allahu Abha! > > Thanks for bringing this to ARB. I'm crossposting TRB in. > > > Blessings! > - Pat > kohli@ameritel.net > > NightShadow wrote: > > > Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 2:39 PM > > Subject: Martyrs > > > > B A H A ' I W O R L D C E N T R E > > > > 27 February 2002 > > > > To National Spiritual Assemblies > > > > Dear Baha'i Friends, > > > > With exceeding sorrow, the Universal House of Justice has asked > > us to announce the martyrdom by assassination of Rashid Gulov and > > Mosadegh Afshin Shokoufeh, two devoted believers in Tajikistan. > > They were killed at the hands of fanatical elements in that > > country who wished to cause harm to followers of Baha'u'llah. > > > > On the evening of 23 October last year, Rashid Gulov, a member of > > the Local Spiritual Assembly of Dushanbe, was shot and killed > > while returning from work. > > > > On the morning of 3 December, Mosadegh Afshin Shokoufeh was shot > > outside his home and died on the way to the hospital. He was a > > member of the Local Spiritual Assembly of Dushanbe and had > > previously served on the National Spiritual Assembly of > > Tajikistan. > > > > The investigation by the Tajik authorities into the murders has > > shown that the two Baha'is were killed because of their Faith. > > You will recall the assassination only two years ago of Abdullah > > Mogharrabi in that same country. > > > > Both of these friends were, with their wives and families, > > actively involved in raising the banner of Baha'u'llah in > > Tajikistan and rendering services to the Cause. A community so > > distinguished by the sacrifices of martyrs is bound to attract > > bountiful confirmations of its efforts from on high. May its > > members thus be impelled to deepen their loving unity and to > > reach out even further to their compatriots with the only Message > > that can bring them true prosperity and peace. > > > > The House of Justice supplicates at the Sacred Threshold for the > > progress of the souls of Rashid Gulov and Mosadegh Afshin > > Shokoufeh in the worlds of God, and extends its most loving > > sympathy to their families and friends. > > > > With loving Baha'i greetings, > > > > For Department of the Secretariat > > > > cc: The Hands of the Cause of God > > International Teaching Centre > > Boards of Counsellors > > Counsellors > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 7:52 AM Subject: Article in American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal by Karen Bacquet Karen Bacquet has just published a very important article on fundamentalism in the bahai faith in a publication of the American Family Foundation, the leading cult studies foundation in the USA: "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." Further details about AFF: https://www.csj.org/aff/aff_about.htm It's quite possible that her article will help achieve the recognition among Americans and other people, in all walks of life, that the bahai faith has many very profound problems that are regularly concealed from both government officials and the public. Bacquet discusses in her article "severe limits imposed on individual free expression," "intimidation by Baha'i officials," "excommunication and shunning," among other oppressive tactics that have become pervasive in everyday bahai life, as it is lived, versus announced theory and propaganda. Her article "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html For other perceptive writings by Karen Bacquet, see both her own website and mine available below. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:59 AM Subject: Re: Cultic Studies Journal article - American Family Foundation "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:u89lvdqrs6lc9d@corp.supernews.com... > > Yes, I've heard that AFF has been very reluctant to accept that there may be > problems with psychological manipulation and harm in the Baha'i Faith -- the > impression I got from the editor is that he had picked up enough from other > sources that he was willing to accept that there could be problems there. > The Baha'i Faith has had very positive PR -- most non-Baha'is have no clue > about the Faith's authoritarian side, and have trouble believing it exists. I think you're right on all counts, especially the positive PR, which has been widely self-generated by fundamentalist bahais through paid ads in newspapers, approaching prominent people and government leaders, other efforts, etc.... It seems to me that your article goes a long way toward presenting matters as they truly stand within the bahai faith. Congrats again! It should help people interested in the truth gain a broad perspective on what's happening behind the scenes. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship >My article "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i >Community" is now in print and available on my website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:42 AM Subject: Re: Article in American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal by Karen Bacquet I've now finished reading Ms. Bacquet's article. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the bahai faith as one of the best introductions to the many conflicts and injustices that have shakened the religion during the last few decades. Her article is especially informative about the very wide discrepancy between public image and lived reality within bahai circles once one becomes a member. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---- Karen Bacquet has just published a very important article on fundamentalism in the bahai faith in a publication of the American Family Foundation, the leading cult studies foundation in the USA: "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." Further details about AFF: https://www.csj.org/aff/aff_about.htm It's quite possible that her article will help achieve the recognition among Americans and other people, in all walks of life, that the bahai faith has many very profound problems that are regularly concealed from both government officials and the public. Bacquet discusses in her article "severe limits imposed on individual free expression," "intimidation by Baha'i officials," "excommunication and shunning," among other oppressive tactics that have become pervasive in everyday bahai life, as it is lived, versus announced theory and propaganda. Her article "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html For other perceptive writings by Karen Bacquet, see both her own website and mine available below. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Article in American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal by Karen Bacquet I've found Ms. Bacquet's quotation of Steven Scholl is particularly disturbing. Though I had read it long ago, roughly about the time he first posted it to talisman9, it still remains shocking to read: "When I received a letter from a Baha'i Continental Counsellor indicating that I was under threat of being declared a Covenant-breaker, the impact on me personally was less than on my family. My wife is a Baha'i as are many of her family members, . . . The very real threat of being declared a Covenant breaker meant my wife had to face the decision of joining me as a heretic or divorcing me so that she could maintain her relationships with her family and other lifelong friends. Since [my wife] had no intention of divorcing me, the choices then extended out to her family. Her sister would not refuse to socialize with us so she would automatically be declared a covenant breaker along with her husband and children. Many of my close Baha'i friends would also be faced with the decision of maintaining friendships or joining me as a heretic. The whole thing is absurd and quite medieval. But it does raise the issue which you point out so well; how anyone would want to belong to a group which is willing to act this way and be so cruel is beyond me. That is why I voluntarily left the religion. Not in order to escape punishment but because the Baha'i community had become such an unhealthy place spiritually. I was terribly saddened that my spiritual home of 25 years had turned into a prison and nightmare." Quoted by Karen Bacquet in "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html [60] Scholl, Steven. (2000). April 26 post to talisman9@yahoogroups.com. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 9:02 AM Subject: bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS - bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS -bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS -bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS - bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS - If newcomers to talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai desire not to be deceived, it will require more than a passing glance at a few messages. I suggest you begin with the links below which provide a historical survey of the last several years of bahai censorship and then visit further my and Professor Cole's websites. Karen Bacquet's article in Cultic Studies Journal, cited below, is a particularly helpful introduction. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roll Call of Victims https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/RollCall.htm To the Universal House of Justice - July 24, 1998 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ72498.htm To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm The Bahai Technique ---- **Essential Reading** ---- Demonize, Discredit, Smear, Suppress, Malign, Slander, Shun... etc.... https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm soc.religion.bahai - Brief Quotations Documenting Censorship https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb-bq.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, surveys the many incidents of bahai censorship that have taken place during the last few decades in "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Karen Bacquet, "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" published in AFF's Cultic Studies Journal: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: Re: Baha'i Scandal Gap... Randy, All joking aside, don't rule anything out.... https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Antinomies.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Randy Burns" wrote in message news:_nsh8.4178$tL.3558@nwrddc02.gnilink.net... > Robert > > What is becoming increasing clear today is that the Baha'i Faith has a major > gap in its relationship with the other major world religions, that gap to > which I am referring to, of course, is a SCANDAL GAP! > > I don't see how we can claim to be a major world religion if we continue to > piddle around with only minor tempest in the teapot variety of scandals. We > need something much bigger, something of national or international import, > something that will hit the headlines of newspapers and make people take > heed of Baha'i (Heh, here's a major world religion! love their scandals! > maybe I should join!). > > Obviously increased secrecy at all levels of Baha'i Administrative is a sine > qua none of any such program. After all why should individual Baha'is be > kept informed of the why's and wherefores of administration? Anecdotal > evidence suggests that administration bores them anyway. And secrecy is the > father of scandal. > > But we need more then just this, we need a crash course on scandal > development throut all levels of Baha'i Administration, from the Grumpies on > the Hill to the grassroots of Kansas. To foster this scandal-ridden > environment so sorely needed by the Baha'i Community we are soon announcing > a new series of Institutes for Scandal Breeding! which will focus > exclusively on the tremendous needs for Secrecy, Authoritarianism and > Obedience in Baha'i. > > To Future Scandals, Randy > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 1:36 PM Subject: Letter to the Editor - O&E Newspapers - Published March 7, 2002 - A Response to Baha'i Ad run February 28 Letters to the Editor Wayne Peal Observer-Eccentric Newspapers (Circulation approximately 120,000 throughout Oakland County, third wealthest county in the nation.) In response to the paid half-page ad by my fellow Baha'is in your February 28 issue, which offers a website link "for more information," I believe Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's Department of History, has a webpage of extensive and disturbing documentation that anyone interested in the Baha'i Faith should be aware of: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm In his book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." For numerous other views in balance to the paid ad O&E ran, I also recommend the over 50 megabytes of documentation on my own website, The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Frederick Glaysher Rochester Hills [on page A10] ---- Appeared as O & E half-page page ad on February 28, 2002, on page A3: ---- The Destiny of America and the Promise of World Peace A Statement from the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' of the United States At this time of world turmoil, the United States Bahß' community offers a perspective on the destiny of America as the promoter of world peace. More than a hundred years ago, Bahß'u'llßh, the founder of the Bahß' Faith, addressing heads of state, proclaimed that the age of maturity for the entire human race had come. The unity of humankind was now to be established as the foundation of the great peace that would mark the highest stage in humanity's spiritual and social evolution. Revolutionary and world-shaking changes were therefore inevitable. The Bahß' writings state: The world is moving on. Its events are unfolding ominously and with bewildering rapidity. The whirlwind of its passions is swift and alarmingly violent. The New World is insensibly drawn into its vortex. . . . Dangers, undreamt of and unpredictable, threaten it both from within and from without. Its governments and peoples are being gradually enmeshed in the coils of the world's recurrent crises and fierce controversies. . . . The world is contracting into a neighborhood. America, willingly or unwillingly, must face and grapple with this new situation. For purposes of national security, let alone any humanitarian motive, she must assume the obligations imposed by this newly created neighborhood. Paradoxical as it may seem, her only hope of extricating herself from the perils gathering around her is to become entangled in that very web of international association which the Hand of an inscrutable Providence is weaving. The American nation, Bahß' s believe, will evolve through tests and trials to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership, a champion of justice and unity among all peoples and nations, and a powerful servant of the cause of everlasting peace. This is the peace promised by God in the sacred texts of the world's religions. Establishing peace is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace. Universal acceptance of the spiritual principle of the oneness of humankind is essential to any successful attempt to establish world peace. Racism, one of the most baneful and persistent evils, is a major barrier to peace. The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality of the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged, prerequisites of peace. The inordinate disparity between rich and poor keeps the world in a state of instability, preventing the achievement of peace. Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Religious strife, the cause of innumerable wars and conflicts throughout history, is a major obstacle to progress. The challenge facing the world's religious leaders is to contemplate, with hearts filled with compassion and the desire for truth, the plight of humanity, and to ask themselves whether they cannot, in humility before their God, submerge their theological differences in a great spirit of mutual forbearance that will enable them to work together for the advancement of human understanding and peace. Bahß' s pray, "May this American Democracy be the first nation to establish the foundation of international agreement. May it be the first nation to proclaim the unity of mankind. May it be the first to unfurl the standard of the Most Great Peace." During this hour of crisis, we affirm our abiding faith in the destiny of America. We know that the road to its destiny is long, thorny and tortuous, but we are confident that America will emerge from her trials undivided and undefeatable. ůNational Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' s of the United States For more information and for a free copy of the booklet "The Promise of World Peace" please visit our web site at Www.us.bahai.org or call us toll free at 1-800-22-UNITE Local Phone 248-737-4006 -- https://www.us.bahai.org/world_peace/amers_destiny.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 7:37 AM Subject: WARNING - Re: BeliefNet.com Design Complete for Baha'i Community Area There's a fundamentalist bahai who has recently gotten his/herself into the "moderators" chair and is deleting messages from the > Baha'i Faith Challenge & Critique area. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 7:53 AM Subject: Re: Baha'i Scandal Gap... "John R MacLeod" wrote in message news:a68dsg$ch3ov$1@ID-73584.news.dfncis.de... > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > news:a67pa2$cbqkb$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Antinomies.htm > > > > I thoroughly enjoyed this essay. I hope you write many more such. Thanks John, I think of it, though, as a thematic commonplace book, excerpts, passages, quotations, vignettes, my own and others, resonating around ineradicable antinomies.... Enough prose for me for a while. Can't get enough lived tension into it. Much prefer poetry for that reason, though fewer readers can grapple with and understand it, especially among my fellow bahais, given their rigid and inflexible intellects.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:16 AM Subject: Re: Cultic Studies Journal article - American Family Foundation "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:u8f3llistg0oce@corp.supernews.com... > > I'd like to thank everyone here for their kind comments about my article. > So far, the feedback I've gotten everywhere has been more positive than > negative. It has been very exciting for me to break into print at long last; > I never would have dreamed, when I started writing that I'd be able to be > published in a journal like this. I'm really hoping that getting the truth > out there will have a beneficial impact in the long run, and I feel very > encouraged to continue exploring and writing about these issues. Karen, As I've said in the past, you bring a fresh perspective to the table, if you will. I enjoy most your ability to draw from your own experience because your voice rings so true and genuine when you do, not that it doesn't at other times too, you understand. You obviously understand the beast from the "inside" for that reason. I think your article too is very accessible for the non-bahai reader, doubtlessly a factor in its acceptance by Cultic Studies Journal, a significant personal achievement and one for all those who care about our fellow citizens, local and global, hearing the truth about what has been taking place behind the facade of love and unity now for decades.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > My article "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" > is now in print and available on my website: > https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: Ms. Bacquet - How do I buy a copy of the Cultic Studies Journal? It occurs to me that it might make an especially nice presentation copy to a particular lawyer at AOL and my own. I might pick up several others while I'm at it for editors, government officials, leaders of thought and opinion, and others who know only the distorted claims of the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais. I don't really want to take out a subscription to the journal but just purchase the single issue with your article so please be sure to include the issue number or season/2002? Please include the complete address and price info, if you would. Thanks again for all the work and effort you put into writing what I believe is and will remain a a informative and enlightening piece for a very long time to come! -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Ms. Bacquet - How do I buy a copy of the Cultic Studies Journal? - American Family Foundation For newcomers, the article in question is Karen Bacquet's > My article "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" > is now in print and available on my website: > https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:a6csbd$d9o2s$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > It occurs to me that it might make an especially nice > presentation copy to a particular lawyer at AOL and > my own. > > I might pick up several others while I'm at it for editors, > government officials, leaders of thought and opinion, > and others who know only the distorted claims of the > fundamentalists among my fellow bahais. > > I don't really want to take out a subscription to the > journal but just purchase the single issue with your > article so please be sure to include the issue number > or season/2002? > > Please include the complete address and price info, > if you would. Thanks again for all the work and effort > you put into writing what I believe is and will remain a > a informative and enlightening piece for a very long time > to come! > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 5:31 PM To: aff@affcultinfoserve.com. Subject: PURCHASE REQUEST - Karen Bacquet - Cultic Studies Journal, Volume 18, No. 1. I'd like to buy a printed copy of Karen Bacquet's article "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" in the Cultic Studies Journal, Volume 18, No. 1. Unfortunately, I can't find it on your website at https://www.csj.org/pub_csj/csj_issue_index.htm I'm not really interested in the xeroxed copy but would want the original printed copy or a reprint of just her article. Thank you for your assistance. Frederick Glaysher FG@comcast.net ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:55 AM Subject: ATTN - Tony Blair - Effective recognition - Baha'i Faith Validity!! "RSCHAUT" wrote in message news:20020309153225.21292.00000659@mb-cn.aol.com... > MESSAGE FROM PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR > > (printed in the March/April Baha'i Journal UK) > > I HAVE A CLEAR vision of a multi-cultural Britain - one which values the > contribution made by each of our ethnic, cultural and faith communities. I > am determined to see a truly dynamic society, in which people from different > ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds can live and work together, > whilst retaining their distinctive identities, in an atmosphere of mutual > respect and understanding. British Baha'is make a significant contribution > towards achieving this vision and we are a stronger better country because > of it. It is particularly important that we celebrate the contribution of > the Baha'i faith to the stability and prosperity of British Society as a > whole. I am very much encouraged by the vision the Baha'i community > demonstrates in recognising the power of interfaith dialogue and the > importance of all citizens fulfilling their potential. Your community has a > vibrancy which is well demonstrated by the recent opening of the Baha'i > Gardens on Mount Carmel in Israel. It is an outstanding monument to your > faith. > [signed Tony Blair] > Tony Blair ought to read Karen Bacquet's article published in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal to understand what is really taking place now in the UK and elsewhere regarding the bahai faith: Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:59 AM Subject: Re: ATTN - Tony Blair - Effective recognition - Baha'i Faith Validity!! "RSCHAUT" wrote in message news:20020309153225.21292.00000659@mb-cn.aol.com... > MESSAGE FROM PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR > > (printed in the March/April Baha'i Journal UK) > > I HAVE A CLEAR vision of a multi-cultural Britain - one which values the > contribution made by each of our ethnic, cultural and faith communities. I > am determined to see a truly dynamic society, in which people from different > ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds can live and work together, > whilst retaining their distinctive identities, in an atmosphere of mutual > respect and understanding. British Baha'is make a significant contribution > towards achieving this vision and we are a stronger better country because > of it. It is particularly important that we celebrate the contribution of > the Baha'i faith to the stability and prosperity of British Society as a > whole. I am very much encouraged by the vision the Baha'i community > demonstrates in recognising the power of interfaith dialogue and the > importance of all citizens fulfilling their potential. Your community has a > vibrancy which is well demonstrated by the recent opening of the Baha'i > Gardens on Mount Carmel in Israel. It is an outstanding monument to your > faith. > [signed Tony Blair] > Tony Blair ought to read Karen Bacquet's article published in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal to understand what is really taking place now in the UK and elsewhere regarding the bahai faith: Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 12:00 PM Subject: Re: ATTN - Tony Blair - Effective recognition - Baha'i Faith Validity!! "RSCHAUT" wrote in message news:20020309153225.21292.00000659@mb-cn.aol.com... > MESSAGE FROM PRIME MINISTER TONY BLAIR > > (printed in the March/April Baha'i Journal UK) > > I HAVE A CLEAR vision of a multi-cultural Britain - one which values the > contribution made by each of our ethnic, cultural and faith communities. I > am determined to see a truly dynamic society, in which people from different > ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds can live and work together, > whilst retaining their distinctive identities, in an atmosphere of mutual > respect and understanding. British Baha'is make a significant contribution > towards achieving this vision and we are a stronger better country because > of it. It is particularly important that we celebrate the contribution of > the Baha'i faith to the stability and prosperity of British Society as a > whole. I am very much encouraged by the vision the Baha'i community > demonstrates in recognising the power of interfaith dialogue and the > importance of all citizens fulfilling their potential. Your community has a > vibrancy which is well demonstrated by the recent opening of the Baha'i > Gardens on Mount Carmel in Israel. It is an outstanding monument to your > faith. > [signed Tony Blair] > Tony Blair ought to read Karen Bacquet's article published in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal to understand what is really taking place now in the UK and elsewhere regarding the bahai faith: Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 8:01 AM Subject: bahai - New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for bahai - New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for bahai - New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for bahai - New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for bahai - New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuitResponse.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AmicusC.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 8:02 AM Subject: Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements, Vol. 6, No. 1 Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements, Vol. 6, No. 1 Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements, Vol. 6, No. 1 Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements, Vol. 6, No. 1 (February 2002) https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol6/salmuhj.htm see also https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- The Censorship of Salmani's Memoirs by the Baha'i Authorities: Historical Documents from 1982 From materials in the private collections of Juan R. I. Cole ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE Department of the Secretariat 20 September 1982 Kalimat Press 10889 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 270 Los Angeles, California 90024 U.S.A. Dear Baha’i Friends, On 31 August 1982 the Universal House of Justice received a letter from Mr. Juan Cole expressing concern aver a number of points connected with its decision that certain passages, of the Salmani memoirs should not be published at this time. Shortly afterwards it was informed that Mr. . . . was also writing on this subject, and it decided to await the arrival of his letter before replying. However, Mr. Roger White has now shared with the House of Justice extracts from a personal letter he has received from Mr. . . . , and it has instructed us to send you the following clarification and comments without further delay. As you will recall from the letter we wrote to you on behalf of the Universal House of Justice on 19 August 1980, the special committee that the National Spiritual Assembly of' the United States had been asked to appoint to review Persian manuscripts was also given the responsibility of advising on the timeliness and wisdom of publishing such texts. The House of Justice then presumed that the Salmani memoirs were going through this process. In June 1982, however, one of the friends wrote to the House of Justice expressing his great concern at learning that the entire text of the Salmani memoirs was being copied out with the intent of publishing them. On receipt of this letter an enquiry was immediately made by telephone to Mr. Darakhshani, the secretary of the recently appointed reviewing committee for Persian publications, and he was asked to draw to your attention the unwisdom of publishing the book in full at this time. This was confirmed in a letter to Mr. Darakhshani on 30 June 1982. Your two cables of 1 and 15 July then arrived informing the House of Justice that, not only had the book been passed by review of both the Persian original and the English translation, but that it was actually /Cont'd.... Kalimat Press 20 September 1982 Los Angeles, California Page two at the printers. Realizing the urgency of the matter and aware that, apparently, the earlier committee appointed by the National Spiritual Assembly had not appreciated the problems of timeliness presented by this publication, the House of Justice instructed an ad hoc committee to immediately identify those few passages which were objectionable and to send them post‑haste to Mr. Darakhshani so that the proofs could be corrected and the printing go forward. The House of Justice greatly regrets that it had to intervene at the last minute in this way, and since it is clear that Kalimat Press had faithfully followed all the requirements for review, the House of Justice will pay the additional costs incurred as a result of the last‑minute changes. In addition to the general question, Mr. Cole in his letter has queried the reason for the excision of a number of passages. At the moment the House of Justice has before it only the original Persian manuscript, therefore it would appreciate your sending at your earliest convenience a copy of the typescript or proofs of the book, showing both the Persian and the English and whatever notes and footnotes you have added, so that it can consider the passages in detail and reply to the points that Mr. Cole has raised. With loving Baha'i greetings, Loraine Kerfoot For Department of the Secretariat cc: The National Spiritual of the United States , Mr. Juan Cole THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE Department of the Secretariat 2 December 1982 Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Department of Medieval and Modern History Lucknow University Lucknow 226007 India Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has now been able to compare the published edition of the Salmani memoirs with the Persian manuscript: and to consider the passages which the ad hoc committee had marked for deletion. It is clear that Kalimat Press scrupulously followed all the provisions for review of this book before publication, but, unfortunately the process has been dogged by a series of' misunderstandings and confusions. The House of Justice has instructed us to send you the following comments on the points raised in your letter of 13 August 1982. When the early correspondence took place between the World Centre and Kalimat Press concerning this publication, the House of Justice was relying on the discretion of the appropriate committee in the United States to check not only the normal review aspects, but also the timeliness and wisdom of such a publication. It did not itself check the manuscript. If it had done so it now concludes that it would not have given permission for its publication or translation at this time, for reasons which will be explained below. In June 1982, concern was expressed to the Universal House of Justice about the possible publication in full, in Persian, of these memoirs, and action was taken in July, in great haste, to eliminate the most harmful passages so that the publication of the book, which was already at the press, could proceed. Unfortunately at that time the ad hoc committee was unaware of the earlier correspondence and of the fact that certain passages had already been quoted in translation in books by Mr. Hasan Balyuzi and Mr. Adib Taherzadeh. Kalimat Press, in its turn, knowing of the prior publication of these passages, and not understanding the reasons for the proposed deletions, has, in fact, retained the larger part of the objectionable passages. The publication is a fait accompli and the House of Justice has therefore decided to permit it to stand, but not to) permit the publication of the Persian text which, in fact, would be more damaging than the English version. Cont'd/.... Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 2 To the points of substance which you have raised concerning the publication of historical texts, the House of Justice instructs us to explain the following In order to preserve basic information and historical materials for the use of future historians, the beloved Guardian instructed the communities throughout Iran to record the history of the Faith in their localities, and also gave instructions for the memoirs of a number of early believers to be written down and preserved. This was not a new advice and many friends, eyewitnesses of certain events, in the lives of Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l‑Baha, had already committed their reminiscences to writing. The memoirs of Ustad Muhammad‑`Aliy‑i‑Salmani are among, these and were written down from his spoken recollections in his old age. There is no question whatsoever of suppressing such records ‑ on the contrary, the whole purpose of having them made was to preserve them, and they have been made available to Baha'i historians, such as Mr. Balyuzi and Mr. Taherzadeh for use in their work. When excerpts are translated and published in such works, they are placed in context, related to other records and, where necessary, annotated and commented on. You will readily agree that such a use is not the same as publication in full, even if supplementary footnotes are added, and does not carry the same implications. . In time entire collections of early documents of the Faith will be published in scholarly editions for general use. An initial step in suclbrl a process is Dr. Moojan Momen's admirable book "The Babi and Baha’i Religions, 1.844‑1944 ‑ Some Contemporary Western Accounts". Additional considerations, however, have to be weighed in publishing texts by Baha'i writers. At the present time the general public, even if it has heard of the Faith, is largely uninformed or misinformed. An increasing amount of misinformation is continually being disseminated by opponents of the Faith, both in the east and in the west. The principal task of the Baha’is at the present time ‑ and especially of Baha’i scholars ‑ is to present a true picture of the Faith to the general public and to relate the Baha’i teachings to the concerns and problems of mankind. When a Baha'i publishing house issues a translation of a document such as Salmani's memoirs, the implication to an average reader is that the Baha’is consider this particular account worthy of publication, and, in the absence of adequate footnotes or commentary to the contrary, the reader will assume that Salmani's actions and statements are approved by Baha’is and are accurate portrayals of the Faith. After all, Salmani was a close companion of Baha’u’llah, comparable in the eyes of a Christian reader with one of the early disciples of Christ. Viewed in this light, certain of Salmani's accounts are misleading or Cont'd/ Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 3 unworthy and, apart from distorting the Faith for the average reader can provide material for the enemies of the Faith who at the present time are seizing every opportunity to attack the Cause and blacken its reputation. To take a few examples from the passages queried by the ad hoc committee: p. 17. There is a brief account of some believers from Sultanabad saying to Baha'u'llah "You being God, Uncle, why do You give us such a hard row to hoe?" It is an old accusation against the Baha’is, especially from Muslims, that we regard Baha'u'llah as God. To print such a story without an appropriate commentary gives fuel to our Muslim enemies and makes the Faith look ridiculous to a western reader. Unfortunately Kalimat Press, not realizing the reason for the objection, let the objectionable part stand and deleted a parenthetical comment "The Shi`is, however, were very hostile", which is entirely innocuous. p.30. There are some virtually incomprehensible comments about Mirza Aqa Jan’s head, which are of no historical importance but are unpleasant and unworthy. 3. pp. 31‑34. There are three unpleasant stories recounted by Salmani to illustrate Azal's gluttony. Shoghi Effendi was always very careful in his accounts of Azal to confine his strictures to his truly infamous conduct. He never stooped to making personal criticisms of such a nature, which are unworthy , Publication of such stories in the context of an annotated edition of a historical document for scholarly study is one thing; publication in a book for the general reader is quite another. Again, unfortunately, Kalimat Press did not appreciate the reason for the committee's objection and published the whole passage apart from a couple of brief deletions which were of no significance. 3. p. 34. There is the account. of a disagreement between Baha'u’llah and Azal over the shaving of Azal’s son's head‑another unworthy story, the point of which is obscure. There are others of a similar character. The passages which have already been published in translation, such as Azal's attempt to persuade Salmani to murder Baha'u'llah, provide striking examples of the profound difference between publication in the context of a properly balanced historical exposition, and publication as unadorned parts of a narrative. In sum, to a knowledgeable Baha’i reader, Salmani’s memoirs are a graphic illustration of the overwhelming problems with which Baha'u'llah had to deal both from His enemies and because of the actions of some of His own Cont'd/ .... Mr. Juan Ricardo Cole Page 4 faithful followers; but to an uninformed reader they give a misleading and distorted picture of the Faith and of Baha'u'llah Himself. With loving Baha’i greetings, Loraine Kerfoot For Department of the Secretariat cc: The International Teaching Centre National Assembly of the United States Excerpts from contemporaneous responses to the UHJ letter to J. Cole from other Baha’i intellectuals who saw it: 1) Firuz Kazemzadeh, member of the National Spiritual Assembly of the U.S. and Yale historian, was extremely upset about the tampering with a primary source and offered to write a letter of support for Kalimat Press in the affair. 2) Professor Amin Banani of UCLA, who had written the introduction to the Salmani memoir, insisted that his name be removed from the introduction because he declined to be associated with a censored document. 3) Another intellectual observed the following: It is simply untrue to suppose that the average reader is incapable of distinguishing between the statements and actions of an individual believer and the official positions of the institutions of the Faith. This is an elementary distinction of the kind which is made every day by persons in all walks of life. This must be particularly true of a manuscript of personal memoirs which is over seventy years old. Using the House's example of the early disciples of Christ, many of their failings and misunderstandings are clearly recorded in the Gospels and in the Acts of the Apostles. Christians (or others) do not automatically assume that these shortcomings are approved by modern Churches or are accurate portrayals of Christian standards. What sane reader of the Gospels would propose that since Peter denied Christ three times or because he used his sword to sever the ear of a Roman soldier in the garden of Gethsemane, these must be Christian teachings or approved examples of Christian conduct? If anything, the current policies of review which the House is applying will serve to blur what would otherwise be a perfectly obvious distinction. Since the House now insists that any published personal memoirs, or other statements of personal opinion on the Faith by Baha'is, must actually reflect official policy and contain no statements or reminiscences that run counter to present practice the argument that any individual opinion constitutes official policy (which would otherwise appear absurd) gains some force. Of course, it is just the opposite impression. which the House wants to make. For instance, the only reason that anyone might suppose that Salmani's particular account of Baha'u'llah's exiles might be considered by Baha'is_to be of some special significance is that it is the only one that has been allowed in print. If there were several personal accounts of this kind available, from different points of view, the notion that Salmani's memoir is somehow special would be held by no one. . . The letter to Juan Cole states that Salmani's account was published without footnotes or commentary. Both were provided in [Kalimat’s] edition . . . The intention of the House to protect the reputation of the Faith is certainly to be appreciated, but it seems clear that this reputation is more likely to be blackened by present policies of strict censorship than by anything in the Salmani memoirs—not only for non‑Baha'is, but also for loyal believers who find such policies difficult to understand Moreover, such policies play right into the hands of critics of the Faith (such as Denis MacEoin in England) who are hard at work to portray the Faith as an anti‑democratic, totalitarian, rigidly authoritarian religion, which has falsified and distorted its own history. To addresss the specific objections of the ad hoc committee: 2. It is clear that Baha'u'llah never claimed to be the Godhead, and this can be conclusively demonstrated by reference to His own Writings. On the other hand, it is also clear that there were many Baha'is who believed that He was. (And there certainly still are!) Numerous references in the published works of E. G. Browne indicate this clearly. This could easily be proven, by any scholar who bothered to try. So, the offending sentence in Salmani's memoirs adds nothing to what is not already known. Furthermore, Baha'is know that in a certain sense we believe that Baha'u'llah is God, as is explained in the Iqan. Especially since the incident is not without humor, was intended as an amusing story, and involves an ignorant villager (and in the context: of the introduction of the book), it seems unlikely that it would fuel our enemies or make us seem ridiculous. 2. The comments which Salmani makes about Mirza Aqa Jan's head are admittedly curious. However, I would query the statement that they are of nc historical importance. If we could understand what the comments meant they may be of great interest. Salmani was, after all, a barber, and he may have recorded something about Mirza Aqa Jan's head that others have failed to mention. 3 & 4. The truly extraordinary standard for forbidding the publication of passages‑‑that they are "unpleasant" or "unworthy" ‑‑appears to establish a new standard for the review of materials which was not used by the Guardian, or previously used by the House of Justice. Such a new standard raises many questions: Salmani can hardly have been expected to conform to standards of style and choice of material found in the Guardian's writings, since he was writing before the Guardian began his ministry. Beyond this, there.mu8t be room in Baha'i literature for different kinds of books. Not all can be similar to the works of Shoghi Effendi. In this case, we were publishing the personal memories and pilgrim's notes of an illiterate barber. It is certainly unfair to compare them to the writings of the Guardian. The objection that a particular passage is "unpleasant" or if unworthy" is extremely vague. It is difficult to see how a reviewing committee could be expected to apply such a standard. It could provide license to forbid the publication of almost anything. The other question, of course, is “impleasant" to whom? I do not find anything in the memoirs unpleasant or unworthy of publication. Neither did the translator, or the author of the introduction to the book. Nor did two Separate reviewing committee of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, one Persian and one American, find anything of this kind in the manuscript. Concerning Azal's plot to murder Baha'u'llah‑‑the descriptions of which the ad‑hoc committee felt should not be included in the translation of Salmani's memoirs, since these descriptions had already been published in translation in two separate books published by George Ronald, it would have been truly remarkable to omit them from a translation of the memoirs as a whole. It was impossible for me to understand how such a request could be justified. The letter of the House of Justice states that there is no question of suppressing records such as Salmani's memoirs. The dictionary defines the word suppress as: "2: to keep from public knowledge: as a: to keep secret b: to stop or prohibit the publica­tion or revelation of." There can be little argument that the House of Justice intends to suppress certain parts of Salmani's memoirs. That it does not intend to do so forever is encouraging, but it does not change the current condition under which Baha'i publishers must operate. Nor will the intention to release such information in the future protect us much from the attacks of scholars or other critics who wish to criticize us on this point. 4) Juan Cole wrote the UHJ on 9 January 1983 in New Delhi: I remain convinced that the policy outlined by the Universal House of Justice is an unfortunate one and that time will prove it incorrect. At that point, I am sure that the Supreme Institution will, on the basis of further information and considerations, abandon its current stance. I firmly believe that it is essentially dishonest to delete passages from manuscripts when they are published, whether in the original or in translation, and no matter how temporarily. I feel that it is also morally wrong for a public institution to withhold documents, particularly ones over thirty years old, from scrutiny by the public. Because I believe that such acts are wrong in principle, no particular justifications for them can strike me as wholly convincing. I further fear that such a policy of secretiveness and bowdlerization will inevitably besmirch the fair name of the Faith of Baha'u'llah. I am convinced that the Baha'i Faith has nothing to fear from the historical records that have survived the nineteenth century. It, is too sublime, too true to ever be sullied by anything mere human beings have written or done, We Baha’is should face the historical record, not with fear, dissimulation and blue pencils, but with unshakeable certitude of the purity of our Cause. Final note: The example given by the UHJ of historical accounts being allowed to be published was Moojan Momen’s The Babi and Baha’i Religions: Some Contemporary Western Accounts (Oxford: George Ronald, 1980). In fact, this book was also censored and important material in the British Archives that the editor had planned to include was taken out at the UHJ’s insistence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Return to Documents on the Shaykhi, Babi, and Baha'i Movements Return to H-Bahai Digital Publications Return to H-Bahai Home Page Links to pages with similar resources ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Ms. Bacquet - How do I buy a copy of the Cultic Studies Journal? FYI - $15.00 and address below. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ----- Original Message ----- From: "AFF" To: "Frederick Glaysher" Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:56 AM Subject: RE: PURCHASE REQUEST - Karen Bacquet - Cultic Studies Journal,Volume 18, No. 1. You can purchase the bound volume for $15, using the address below. Specify what you want; don't assume we'll remember this communication! CC or check. Regards, Michael Langone, Ph.D. AFF (American Family Foundation) P.O. Box 2265 Bonita Springs, FL 34133 Phone: 941-514-3081 fax: 732-352-6818 E-mail: aff@affcultinfoserve.com Web site: www.csj.org Bookstore: www.cultinfobooks.com - Subscribe to our Cultic Studies Review to keep abreast of developments in this field. AFF Annual Conference; June 14-15, 2002, Orlando, FL - go to www.cultinfobooks.com and click on "Conference" button for details. (Includes information on preconference workshops for former group members and for family members.) Weekend workshop for former group members - Estes Park, Colorado - July 12-14, 2002 - Go to www.cultinfobooks.com and click on "Conference" button for details. "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:u8k6bh16th5o5a@corp.supernews.com... > Dear Fred, > > CSJ has been an annual publication for the last few years, so even if you > subscribed, you'd only get the one copy for this year. From looking over the > site, it looks like that this year's CSJ will be the last, and will be > succeeded by an online peer-reviewed journal called Cultic Studies Review. > I can't seem to find the subscription information for CSJ anymore, but as I > recall it was $18. > > My article is in the 2001 volume; it came out a bit on the late side. > However, Xeroxed reprints of the entire journal are available for $10. > They've also got reprints of some individual articles, but mine does not > seem to be among them. To order, go to > https://www.csj.org/pub_csj/csj_issue_index.htm It's Volume 18, No. 1. > > Love, Karen > https://www.bacquet.tk > > -- > "The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice . . ." -- > Baha'u'llah > Bahai Faith wrote in message > news:a6csbd$d9o2s$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > It occurs to me that it might make an especially nice > > presentation copy to a particular lawyer at AOL and > > my own. > > > > I might pick up several others while I'm at it for editors, > > government officials, leaders of thought and opinion, > > and others who know only the distorted claims of the > > fundamentalists among my fellow bahais. > > > > I don't really want to take out a subscription to the > > journal but just purchase the single issue with your > > article so please be sure to include the issue number > > or season/2002? > > > > Please include the complete address and price info, > > if you would. Thanks again for all the work and effort > > you put into writing what I believe is and will remain a > > a informative and enlightening piece for a very long time > > to come! > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:32 PM Subject: Re: Article in American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal by Karen Bacquet "When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable." --Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Steve Scholl" wrote in message news:3dd19d82.0203120955.1cdc783f@posting.google.com... > Several people on this forum have fwd to me Susan Maneck's comments on > the inner workings of my mind. Susan has a history of telling the > world what I really mean and what my true motives were in relation to > events surrounding my exodus from the Baha'i community. At one point > she informed the world that it was my belief that the Baha'i covenant > went null and void in 1921 with the passing of Abdu'l-Baha, which was > a rather outrageous lie on her part. She also claimed that she was > serving as my confidant and guide in the rocky days leading up to my > resignation of membership and that she was counseling me in some way. > In short, she has lied and made misleading statements about me in the > past and this recent statement of hers is just another example of her > lack of honesty. > > She writes: > > > > The real reason that Steve Scholl was so concerned is that at the > > time he received this letter from a Counselor he had already planned to do > > this big expose in the press (the Rankin article.) Steve was well aware that > > such an attack on the Faith after having received such a warning from the > > Counsellor would assuredly result in his being declared a Covenant breaker. > > If he had not been so determined to go forward with this, there > > would not have been a problem. > > Let me emphasize that Susan Maneck has never been privy to the real > reasons for my concerns and actions. That said, I am not even clear > what she is trying to say here. The statement of mine that Karen B. > quotes in her excellent article was a simple look back at one aspect > of my thinking about the internal Baha'i culture wars a few years > after the fact. I think the statement indicates clearly that there was > no big concern on my part about possibly being declared a Baha'i > covenant breaker, that the problems associated with such a move > against me would land more on my family and friends than on me. At > that point I could have cared less what the UHJ or NSA did re: my > Baha'i rights since they had already trampled on them for years and > had acted duplicitously and in violation of their own stated > administrative principles in handling my "case". > > Furthermore, I had gone on record in my correspondence with the UHJ > and Counsl Birkland that I would not hesitate to discuss their actions > with "people of capacity" outside of the Baha'i community and with the > media, and I had already passed on information to several religion > writers for major newspapers about what was going on inside the Baha'i > community. This was not something I was trying to hide from them. > > I don't know what Maneck's last sentence is referring to. Couns. > Birkland's threatening letter to me made it clear that if I said or > did *anything* he or his handlers disapproved of then I would be > declared a CBer. The list of my Baha'i crimes included theological > deviations and not accepting EVERY WORD from the pen of Baha'u'llah > and Abdu'l-Baha as true. Birkland made it clear in his letter to me > that he did not think I was a Baha'i and that he would not hesitate to > recommend my removal from the community. > > What I understand Maneck to be saying here is that my big sin was to > talk with the media about internal Baha'i crackdowns on intellectuals > and scholars, and that if I had not planned to spill the beans to the > media "there would not have been a problem." If this is what she is > implying, then she is dead wrong. First, if I had not resigned, I > believe I would have been declared a CB because I had no intentions of > changing my beliefs based on the fundamentalist rants of the members > of the UHJ. > > But what is telling in this line of Maneckian cult thinking is what > she is really saying: The problem in her cult view of the world is > the "dissident act" of shining a light on internal Baha'i affairs so > that outsiders (and insiders) can learn about what really takes place > in the Baha'i world. The great sin is ignoring the Baha'i taboo > against speaking out against internal injustices because to do so is > to tarnish the reputation of the Baha'i institutions. Good Baha'is are > expected to take their abuse in silence. If they speak out against > abuse, they are regarded as internal opposition and come under > investigation from the Baha'i Inquisition. They are villified and > threatened, even told that their status in the afterlife is threatened > if they don't change their ways. And, yes, this was a key element the > little drama that played out between the Baha'i leadership and myself. > What I told the UHJ and Birkland was something like this: > > I know you are all excited about emerging from obscurity and taking a > larger role on the world stage. Well, that means you are also going to > be examined more closely. Your financial misdeeds, your cover ups of > sexual exploitation by Baha'i leaders, your fundamentalist leanings, > your sexist views, your 1950s view on homosexualty, are all going to > be opened up for public scrutiny. Your days of a free ride in the > media are over. > > Susan can try to nip at Karen's heels and claim that Karen's article > is flawed this way and that. But such partisan harping is only > preaching to the fundamentalist Baha'i choir. Outsiders and many > insiders will read Karen's article as a clear and honest attempt to > discuss recent Baha'i events. Susan can try to attack Karen's lack of > "methodology" or that Karen's work is not serious scholarship. But > this is laughable when one looks at Dr. Maneck's publishing career. > She has penned a few Baha'i articles of marginal value published by > internal Baha'i agencies. In short, she has one of the weakest > publishing histories I have ever seen in academics and her academic > profile is nearly nonexistent. Maneck has attempted (unsuccessfuly) to > discredit the work of Juan Cole and now Karen with her Baha'i blather. > Yet it is Juan and Karen who are publishing in refereed academic > journals, and Karen has done this as a freelance writer rather than as > a trained academic. > > Susan, if you think you really have something to say, write it up and > submit it to a non-Baha'i publisher and see if they will accept YOUR > methodology and YOUR use of sources. > > Steve Scholl ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:46 PM Subject: Re: FWD AOL - Re: Article in American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal by Karen Bacquet Subj: Re: Scholl calls Maneck a Liar on talk.religion.bahai Date: 3/12/2002 5:48:53 PM Eastern Standard Time From: fg@aol.com () To: > In short, she has lied and made misleading statements about me in the >> past and this recent statement of hers is just another example of her >> lack of honesty. How about it, Susan, HAVE YOU LIED? >The problem in her cult view of the world is >> the "dissident act" of shining a light on internal Baha'i affairs so >> that outsiders (and insiders) can learn about what really takes place >> in the Baha'i world. How about it, Susan, do you have a cult view of the world? >In short, she has one of the weakest >> publishing histories I have ever seen in academics and her academic >> profile is nearly nonexistent. How about it, Susan, have you published ANYTHING on an intelligent level? Frederick Glaysher Google Search Engine: Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <@aol.com> Received: from rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (rly-yd05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.5]) by air-yd04.mail.aol.com (v83.45) with ESMTP id MAILINYD43-0312174853; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:48:53 -0500 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com (imo-m09.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.164]) by rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (v83.45) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYD54-0312174825; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:48:25 -0500 Received: from ladder07.news.aol.com (ladder07.news.aol.com [172.31.45.165]) by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA04968; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:48:17 -0500 (EST) From: ) To: Date: 12 Mar 2002 17:47:41 EST References: <20020312173926.14740.00001315@mb-ba.aol.com> Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Scholl calls Maneck a Liar on talk.religion.bahai Message-ID: <20020312174741.14723.00001471@mb-ba.aol.com> ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:53 PM Subject: REPOST - Letter to the Editor - O&E Newspapers - Published March 7, 2002 - A Response to Baha'i Ad run February 28 REPOST - Letters to the Editor Wayne Peal Observer-Eccentric Newspapers (Circulation approximately 120,000 throughout Oakland County, third wealthest county in the nation.) In response to the paid half-page ad by my fellow Baha'is in your February 28 issue, which offers a website link "for more information," I believe Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's Department of History, has a webpage of extensive and disturbing documentation that anyone interested in the Baha'i Faith should be aware of: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm In his book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." For numerous other views in balance to the paid ad O&E ran, I also recommend the over 50 megabytes of documentation on my own website, The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Frederick Glaysher Rochester Hills [on page A10] ---- Appeared as O & E half-page page ad on February 28, 2002, on page A3: ---- The Destiny of America and the Promise of World Peace A Statement from the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' of the United States At this time of world turmoil, the United States Bahß' community offers a perspective on the destiny of America as the promoter of world peace. More than a hundred years ago, Bahß'u'llßh, the founder of the Bahß' Faith, addressing heads of state, proclaimed that the age of maturity for the entire human race had come. The unity of humankind was now to be established as the foundation of the great peace that would mark the highest stage in humanity's spiritual and social evolution. Revolutionary and world-shaking changes were therefore inevitable. The Bahß' writings state: The world is moving on. Its events are unfolding ominously and with bewildering rapidity. The whirlwind of its passions is swift and alarmingly violent. The New World is insensibly drawn into its vortex. . . . Dangers, undreamt of and unpredictable, threaten it both from within and from without. Its governments and peoples are being gradually enmeshed in the coils of the world's recurrent crises and fierce controversies. . . . The world is contracting into a neighborhood. America, willingly or unwillingly, must face and grapple with this new situation. For purposes of national security, let alone any humanitarian motive, she must assume the obligations imposed by this newly created neighborhood. Paradoxical as it may seem, her only hope of extricating herself from the perils gathering around her is to become entangled in that very web of international association which the Hand of an inscrutable Providence is weaving. The American nation, Bahß' s believe, will evolve through tests and trials to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership, a champion of justice and unity among all peoples and nations, and a powerful servant of the cause of everlasting peace. This is the peace promised by God in the sacred texts of the world's religions. Establishing peace is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace. Universal acceptance of the spiritual principle of the oneness of humankind is essential to any successful attempt to establish world peace. Racism, one of the most baneful and persistent evils, is a major barrier to peace. The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality of the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged, prerequisites of peace. The inordinate disparity between rich and poor keeps the world in a state of instability, preventing the achievement of peace. Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Religious strife, the cause of innumerable wars and conflicts throughout history, is a major obstacle to progress. The challenge facing the world's religious leaders is to contemplate, with hearts filled with compassion and the desire for truth, the plight of humanity, and to ask themselves whether they cannot, in humility before their God, submerge their theological differences in a great spirit of mutual forbearance that will enable them to work together for the advancement of human understanding and peace. Bahß' s pray, "May this American Democracy be the first nation to establish the foundation of international agreement. May it be the first nation to proclaim the unity of mankind. May it be the first to unfurl the standard of the Most Great Peace." During this hour of crisis, we affirm our abiding faith in the destiny of America. We know that the road to its destiny is long, thorny and tortuous, but we are confident that America will emerge from her trials undivided and undefeatable. ůNational Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' s of the United States For more information and for a free copy of the booklet "The Promise of World Peace" please visit our web site at Www.us.bahai.org or call us toll free at 1-800-22-UNITE Local Phone 248-737-4006 -- https://www.us.bahai.org/world_peace/amers_destiny.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:56 AM Subject: Re: FWD AOL - Re: Article in American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal by Karen Bacquet "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message news:a6nkev$ffp4h$2@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de... > > You wanna talk to Fred? Then start by trying to understand what > grieves him. You're not going to initiate any dialogue without that. > How do I know that? Well, Fred talks to me because I have tried to > understand why he is the way he is. The lesson is Robert - stop > reading your Writings - start applying them to real situations and > take the blindfold away from your eyes. If the current status of your > Faith wasn't sick there'd be no conflict. Thinks ..... how do I help > resolve that conflict? Light appears - I ask people why they think > things are wrong! I acknowledge they have a credible point(s)! I > look for ways of amending my own views to create a harmony with them - > I look for solutions! Dermod, Thanks. I appreciate your fairness and speaking up. I've been tarred and feathered so long, it's a shock and delight to read your words! Scapegoating is a very nasty business.... Outside observers might want to reflect carefully and dispassionately on the experience of Steven Scholl, his recent posts on talk.religion.bahai, linked together at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > Now go do it! > > As ever, > > Dermod. > > PS Only through dialogue can problems be solved - not through the > kill-file. resorting to silence simply informs the world that you see > and acknowledge what your opponent says, that you cannot refute it and > that, ignorant person that you are, you will not amend your position > to create harmony. > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:11 AM Subject: BeliefNet.com and Fundamentalist bahai Deception Thank you for your message. As a member of the bahai faith since 1976, I recommend you consider the recently published article of Karen Bacquet, "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" which appears in AFF's Cultic Studies Journal: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." ----------------------- I also recommend you consider the testimony of Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, Department of History, who surveys the many incidents of bahai censorship that have taken place during the last few decades in "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm In Professor Juan Cole's book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." The issues involved in the Bahai Wars are indeed complex and challenging. These sources will provide you with an historical view and broad introduction. I mention two further especially noteworthy articles by Steven Scholl, available on my website under Newcomers might want to start here or with Essential Readings: Steven Scholl - "Why I voluntarily left the religion" The Bahai Technique Ad hominem, slander, demonize, scapegoat, shun... etc.... Essential Reading You and BeliefNet are faced with a major challenge regarding free speech and discussion, one that require considerable conscientious effort on your parts if you are truly to understand the issues involved. Let me take this opportunity to mention that the new moderator who uses the handle "World Citizen" appears to me and other participants to be a bahai of fundamentalist mentality. The renaming of Question Bahais to Dissenting Bahais reflects such an orientation, casting asperions on all those individuals who would question anything, really, within a bahai context. I believe it is a disservice to all honest and thoughtful people, bahais and non-bahais, to allow such subtle manipulations of the BeliefNet message boards and to permit basically the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to gain control of the technical moderating controls of discussion. With respect and best wishes, -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship >From: Cheryl Fuller >To: FG@hotmail.com >CC: community@staff.beliefnet.com >Subject: Your posts on the Baha'i boards >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:25:10 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [24.153.64.2] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBE5AC2DB0011400437A218994002F1C05; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:27:18 -0800 >Received: from localhost (pcp01223126pcs.roylok01.mi.comcast.net [68.61.35.57]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GSZ0081TYXOT7@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for FG@hotmail.com; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:25:01 -0500 (EST) >From cfuller@staff.beliefnet.com Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:27:41 -0800 >Message-id: >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) > >Dear Beliefnet member fglaysher , > >I am writing to you with concerns about your participation on >Beliefnet's Baha'i message boards. > >A review of the messages you have posted reveals frequent incidents >of >spamming, posting the same message, usually containing inflammatory >or derogatory remarks. The Beliefnet Rules of Conduct, to which you >agreed when you registered as a member of Beliefnet, forbids posts >that malign, vilify, defame, abuse, harass, or threaten others and >spamming. It is not necessary for you to agree with other Beliefnet >members, but we do insist that you treat them with courtesy, even if >you think their beliefs are false. > >We also feel that the intent of some of your posts is to disrupt >discussions and prevent others from enjoying and participating in >theboards. Disruptive behavior is not acceptable on Beliefnet >messageboards and will be removed. We have no wish to silence >opposing viewpoints or controversy; we place great value on freedom >of speech onBeliefnet. We will never censor someone for expressing >an idea (withinthe limits of the Beliefnet Rules of Conduct) but we >will take action against poor behavior. > >To continue participating on Beliefnet, and to avoid a suspension of >your membership privileges, we hope you will find a way to express >your views that does not include disparaging personal remarks about >other Beliefnet members. Probably the best thing is to focus on >ideas, rather than people. > >Good luck and we look forward to hearing more from you on Beliefnet. > >Cheryl Fuller >Assistant Community Producer >cfuller@staff.beliefnet.com >https://www.beliefnet.com > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:43 AM Subject: Re: BeliefNet.com and Fundamentalist bahai Deception Those who wish to judge these matters for themselves may do so at https://www.beliefnet.com/boards/discussion_list.asp?boardID=5608 -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 11:03 AM To: feedback@staff.beliefnet.com Subject: Bahai Message Boards feedback@staff.beliefnet.com I ask that a serious, informed, and impartial investigation into the matters I raise in my message below to Cheryl Fuller be conducted, at a higher level, if need be. At the very least, I believe it is necessary for BeliefNet, in order to protect its own best interests and reputation, to actually read and take into account the sources I recommend below. Anything less, in my opinion, will result in undue weight being given to the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais on BeliefNet. Respectfully yours, Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---- Thank you for your message. As a member of the bahai faith since 1976, I recommend you consider the recently published article of Karen Bacquet, "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" which appears in AFF's Cultic Studies Journal: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." ----------------------- I also recommend you consider the testimony of Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, Department of History, who surveys the many incidents of bahai censorship that have taken place during the last few decades in "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm In Professor Juan Cole's book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." The issues involved in the Bahai Wars are indeed complex and challenging. These sources will provide you with an historical view and broad introduction. I mention two further especially noteworthy articles by Steven Scholl, available on my website under Newcomers might want to start here or with Essential Readings: Steven Scholl - "Why I voluntarily left the religion" The Bahai Technique Ad hominem, slander, demonize, scapegoat, shun... etc.... Essential Reading You and BeliefNet are faced with a major challenge regarding free speech and discussion, one that require considerable conscientious effort on your parts if you are truly to understand the issues involved. Let me take this opportunity to mention that the new moderator who uses the handle "World Citizen" appears to me and other participants to be a bahai of fundamentalist mentality. The renaming of Question Bahais to Dissenting Bahais reflects such an orientation, casting asperions on all those individuals who would question anything, really, within a bahai context. I believe it is a disservice to all honest and thoughtful people, bahais and non-bahais, to allow such subtle manipulations of the BeliefNet message boards and to permit basically the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to gain control of the technical moderating tools of discussion. With respect and best wishes, -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship >From: Cheryl Fuller >To: FG@hotmail.com >CC: community@staff.beliefnet.com >Subject: Your posts on the Baha'i boards >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:25:10 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [24.153.64.2] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBE5AC2DB0011400437A218994002F1C05; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:27:18 -0800 >Received: from localhost (pcp01223126pcs.roylok01.mi.comcast.net [68.61.35.57]) by mtaout03.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GSZ0081TYXOT7@mtaout03.icomcast.net> for FG@hotmail.com; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:25:01 -0500 (EST) >From cfuller@staff.beliefnet.com Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:27:41 -0800 >Message-id: >X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) > >Dear Beliefnet member fglaysher , > >I am writing to you with concerns about your participation on >Beliefnet's Baha'i message boards. > >A review of the messages you have posted reveals frequent incidents >of >spamming, posting the same message, usually containing inflammatory >or derogatory remarks. The Beliefnet Rules of Conduct, to which you >agreed when you registered as a member of Beliefnet, forbids posts >that malign, vilify, defame, abuse, harass, or threaten others and >spamming. It is not necessary for you to agree with other Beliefnet >members, but we do insist that you treat them with courtesy, even if >you think their beliefs are false. > >We also feel that the intent of some of your posts is to disrupt >discussions and prevent others from enjoying and participating in >theboards. Disruptive behavior is not acceptable on Beliefnet >messageboards and will be removed. We have no wish to silence >opposing viewpoints or controversy; we place great value on freedom >of speech onBeliefnet. We will never censor someone for expressing >an idea (withinthe limits of the Beliefnet Rules of Conduct) but we >will take action against poor behavior. > >To continue participating on Beliefnet, and to avoid a suspension of >your membership privileges, we hope you will find a way to express >your views that does not include disparaging personal remarks about >other Beliefnet members. Probably the best thing is to focus on >ideas, rather than people. > >Good luck and we look forward to hearing more from you on Beliefnet. > >Cheryl Fuller >Assistant Community Producer >cfuller@staff.beliefnet.com >https://www.beliefnet.com > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 11:07 AM Subject: Letters to the Editor - Observer-Eccentric Newspapers - Circulation approximately 120,000 Letters to the Editor Wayne Peal Observer-Eccentric Newspapers (Circulation approximately 120,000 throughout Oakland County, third wealthest county in the nation.) In response to the paid half-page ad by my fellow Baha'is in your February 28 issue, which offers a website link "for more information," I believe Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's Department of History, has a webpage of extensive and disturbing documentation that anyone interested in the Baha'i Faith should be aware of: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm In his book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." For numerous other views in balance to the paid ad O&E ran, I also recommend the over 50 megabytes of documentation on my own website, The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Frederick Glaysher Rochester Hills [on page A10] ---- Appeared as O & E half-page page ad on February 28, 2002, on page A3: ---- The Destiny of America and the Promise of World Peace A Statement from the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' of the United States At this time of world turmoil, the United States Bahß' community offers a perspective on the destiny of America as the promoter of world peace. More than a hundred years ago, Bahß'u'llßh, the founder of the Bahß' Faith, addressing heads of state, proclaimed that the age of maturity for the entire human race had come. The unity of humankind was now to be established as the foundation of the great peace that would mark the highest stage in humanity's spiritual and social evolution. Revolutionary and world-shaking changes were therefore inevitable. The Bahß' writings state: The world is moving on. Its events are unfolding ominously and with bewildering rapidity. The whirlwind of its passions is swift and alarmingly violent. The New World is insensibly drawn into its vortex. . . . Dangers, undreamt of and unpredictable, threaten it both from within and from without. Its governments and peoples are being gradually enmeshed in the coils of the world's recurrent crises and fierce controversies. . . . The world is contracting into a neighborhood. America, willingly or unwillingly, must face and grapple with this new situation. For purposes of national security, let alone any humanitarian motive, she must assume the obligations imposed by this newly created neighborhood. Paradoxical as it may seem, her only hope of extricating herself from the perils gathering around her is to become entangled in that very web of international association which the Hand of an inscrutable Providence is weaving. The American nation, Bahß' s believe, will evolve through tests and trials to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership, a champion of justice and unity among all peoples and nations, and a powerful servant of the cause of everlasting peace. This is the peace promised by God in the sacred texts of the world's religions. Establishing peace is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace. Universal acceptance of the spiritual principle of the oneness of humankind is essential to any successful attempt to establish world peace. Racism, one of the most baneful and persistent evils, is a major barrier to peace. The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality of the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged, prerequisites of peace. The inordinate disparity between rich and poor keeps the world in a state of instability, preventing the achievement of peace. Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Religious strife, the cause of innumerable wars and conflicts throughout history, is a major obstacle to progress. The challenge facing the world's religious leaders is to contemplate, with hearts filled with compassion and the desire for truth, the plight of humanity, and to ask themselves whether they cannot, in humility before their God, submerge their theological differences in a great spirit of mutual forbearance that will enable them to work together for the advancement of human understanding and peace. Bahß' s pray, "May this American Democracy be the first nation to establish the foundation of international agreement. May it be the first nation to proclaim the unity of mankind. May it be the first to unfurl the standard of the Most Great Peace." During this hour of crisis, we affirm our abiding faith in the destiny of America. We know that the road to its destiny is long, thorny and tortuous, but we are confident that America will emerge from her trials undivided and undefeatable. ůNational Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' s of the United States For more information and for a free copy of the booklet "The Promise of World Peace" please visit our web site at Www.us.bahai.org or call us toll free at 1-800-22-UNITE Local Phone 248-737-4006 -- https://www.us.bahai.org/world_peace/amers_destiny.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:10 AM Subject: Re: The Big Five (Was Article in American...) "Randy Burns" wrote in message news:MCol8.9628$9F2.9097@nwrddc02.gnilink.net... > >Essentially Fred is right, these people are only guilty of acting > in a manner that they think is best for the Baha'i faith according to their > own conscience. Thanks for saying so, Randy. "When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable." --Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. "BECAUSE no People can be truly happy, though under the greatest Enjoyment of Civil Liberties, if abridged of the Freedom of their Consciences." --William Penn, 1701 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Penn.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: NEWS RELEASE - Re: Letters to the Editor - Observer-Eccentric Newspapers - Circulation approximately 120,000 ATTN: Fellow bahais or non-bahais who are disgusted with the lies and distortions rife among bahai fundamentalists. Please feel free to use or customize my Letter to the Editor, as a News Release, whatever, for any suitable submission you might like to make to your own local newspaper, in response to any ad campaign that equally distorts the actual lived record of the bahai faith in the press. Note that my Letter to the Editor has passed at least one editor and may increase the likelihood that you too might be able to receive FREE publicity, reaching 120,000 potential readers or more, as I did, informing and protecting them from the fanaticism that has supplanted the Teachings of Baha'u'llah. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship Search Engine: google.com Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience ---------- Letters to the Editor Wayne Peal Observer-Eccentric Newspapers (Circulation approximately 120,000 throughout Oakland County, third wealthest county in the nation.) In response to the paid half-page ad by my fellow Baha'is in your February 28 issue, which offers a website link "for more information," I believe Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's Department of History, has a webpage of extensive and disturbing documentation that anyone interested in the Baha'i Faith should be aware of: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm In his book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." For numerous other views in balance to the paid ad O&E ran, I also recommend the over 50 megabytes of documentation on my own website, The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Frederick Glaysher Rochester Hills [on page A10] ---- Appeared as O & E half-page page ad on February 28, 2002, on page A3: ---- The Destiny of America and the Promise of World Peace A Statement from the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' of the United States At this time of world turmoil, the United States Bahß' community offers a perspective on the destiny of America as the promoter of world peace. More than a hundred years ago, Bahß'u'llßh, the founder of the Bahß' Faith, addressing heads of state, proclaimed that the age of maturity for the entire human race had come. The unity of humankind was now to be established as the foundation of the great peace that would mark the highest stage in humanity's spiritual and social evolution. Revolutionary and world-shaking changes were therefore inevitable. The Bahß' writings state: The world is moving on. Its events are unfolding ominously and with bewildering rapidity. The whirlwind of its passions is swift and alarmingly violent. The New World is insensibly drawn into its vortex. . . . Dangers, undreamt of and unpredictable, threaten it both from within and from without. Its governments and peoples are being gradually enmeshed in the coils of the world's recurrent crises and fierce controversies. . . . The world is contracting into a neighborhood. America, willingly or unwillingly, must face and grapple with this new situation. For purposes of national security, let alone any humanitarian motive, she must assume the obligations imposed by this newly created neighborhood. Paradoxical as it may seem, her only hope of extricating herself from the perils gathering around her is to become entangled in that very web of international association which the Hand of an inscrutable Providence is weaving. The American nation, Bahß' s believe, will evolve through tests and trials to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership, a champion of justice and unity among all peoples and nations, and a powerful servant of the cause of everlasting peace. This is the peace promised by God in the sacred texts of the world's religions. Establishing peace is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace. Universal acceptance of the spiritual principle of the oneness of humankind is essential to any successful attempt to establish world peace. Racism, one of the most baneful and persistent evils, is a major barrier to peace. The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality of the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged, prerequisites of peace. The inordinate disparity between rich and poor keeps the world in a state of instability, preventing the achievement of peace. Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Religious strife, the cause of innumerable wars and conflicts throughout history, is a major obstacle to progress. The challenge facing the world's religious leaders is to contemplate, with hearts filled with compassion and the desire for truth, the plight of humanity, and to ask themselves whether they cannot, in humility before their God, submerge their theological differences in a great spirit of mutual forbearance that will enable them to work together for the advancement of human understanding and peace. Bahß' s pray, "May this American Democracy be the first nation to establish the foundation of international agreement. May it be the first nation to proclaim the unity of mankind. May it be the first to unfurl the standard of the Most Great Peace." During this hour of crisis, we affirm our abiding faith in the destiny of America. We know that the road to its destiny is long, thorny and tortuous, but we are confident that America will emerge from her trials undivided and undefeatable. ůNational Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' s of the United States For more information and for a free copy of the booklet "The Promise of World Peace" please visit our web site at Www.us.bahai.org or call us toll free at 1-800-22-UNITE Local Phone 248-737-4006 -- https://www.us.bahai.org/world_peace/amers_destiny.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 6:07 PM Subject: REFORMATED VERSION - Re: Formerly Fundamentalist Baha'i Resigns from the BF over Question of Evolution Here's a qucik REFORMATED VERSION copy for anyone who wants it: -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:26:33 -0500 From: Juan Cole wrote in message news:a7h16k$11bf$1@austar-news.austar.net.au... > In the first volume of Alexis De Tocqueville's (d.1859) magisterial > *Democracy in America* (Mansfield/ > Winthrop edition/translation) p.42 (Chicago: 2000), he quotes the following > extract from Cotton Mather's *Magnalia Christi Americana, or, the > Ecclesiastical History of New England* vol. 1 116-117 (Hartford: 1820) > regarding the Puritan idea of 'Liberty'. To wit, > > "...There is a liberty of corrupt nature, which is affected by men and > beasts, to do what they list; and this liberty is inconsistent with > authority, impatient of all restraint; by this liberty, Sumus Omnes > Deteriores [we are inferior]; `tis the grand enemy of truth and peace, and > all the the ordinances of God are bent against it. But there is a civil, a > moral, a federal liberty, which is the proper end and object of authority; > it is a liberty for that only which is just and good; for this liberty you > are to stand with the hazard of your very lives." > > > The implications of the argument made in this extract sounds to me awfully > like the one made by Mirza Husayn `Ali Baha'u'llah (d.1892) in his Kitab > al-Aqdas (para.122-24) regarding 'hurriyyeh' (liberty). To wit, > > " Consider the pettiness of men's minds. They ask for that which injureth > them, > and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are, indeed, of those who > are far > astray. We find some men desiring liberty, and priding themselves therein. > Such men > are in the depths of ignorance. > Liberty must, in the end, lead to sedition, whose flames none can > quench. Thus warneth > you He who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know ye that the embodiment of > liberty is the > symbol of the animal. That which beseemeth man is submission unto such > restraints as will > protect him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of the > mischief-maker. > Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of propriety, and to infringe on > the dignity of his > station. It debaseth him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness. > Regard men as a flock of sheep that need a shepherd for their > protection. This, verily, is the > truth, the certain truth. We approve of liberty in certain circumstances, > and refuse to sanction > it in others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing." > > > Do people agree about the similiarity of the two notions? And if so, what > does that mean about the essential Baha'i understanding of 'Liberty,' and > its corrolaries 'Freedom' and 'Democracy'? Both of these two quotes in their > literal meaning seem to be against the classical utilitarian definition of > 'Liberty' as well as the libertarian one. From these quotes, what can people > glean about the limits that religious understanding seems to want to place > upon individual and political liberty? Does the negative position on > 'Liberty' derive in part from notions of sovereignty, i.e. God vs the > Popular Will, etc? > > > -- > Freethought110 > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: John Winthrop - NOT Mather - Re: Christian Puritan Notions of 'Liberty' and Baha'u'llah's Notion of 'Liberty' [Thanks to Nima Hazini for bringing this passage to my attention.) Mather is in turn quoting John Winthrop: "Concerning liberty, I observe a great mistake in the country about that. There is a twofold liberty, natural (I mean as our nature is now corrupt) and civil or federal. The first is common to man with beast and other creatures. By this, man, as he stands in relation to man simply, hath liberty to do what he lists; it is a liberty to evil as well as to good. This liberty is compatible and inconsistent with authority, and cannot endure the least restraint of the most just authority. The exercise and maintaining of this liberty makes men grow more evil, and in time to be worse than brute beasts: Omnes Sumus Licentia Deteriores. This is that great enemy of truth and peace, that wild beast, which all the ordinances of God are bent against, to restrain and subdue it. The other kind of liberty I call civil or federal; it may also be termed moral, in reference to the covenant between God and man, in the moral law, and the politic covenants and constitutions, among men themselves. This liberty is the proper end and object of authority, and cannot subsist without it; and it is a liberty to that only which is good, just, and honest. This liberty you are to stand for, with hazard not only of your goods, but of your lives, if need be. Whatsover crosseth this, is not authority, but a distemper thereof. This liberty is maintained and exercised in a way of subjection to authority; it is of the same kind of liberty wherewith Christ hath make us free." Quoted from my own copy of De Toqueville, Editor Phillips Bradley, 9th printing, 1961, 44-45. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Mather.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Christian Puritan Notions of 'Liberty' and Baha'u'llah's Notion of 'Liberty' "Freethought110" wrote in message news:a7jb2s$20c1$1@austar-news.austar.net.au... > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > news:a7iupb$lis18$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > > both sound the classical notes > > that enlighten intelligent reflection on Liberty throughout human > > experience.... > > I disagree. Mather's distinction is actually against a postive definition of > Liberty as one would find it in Enlightenment philosophes or later on with > JS Mill, et al. It seems that as primarily religious persons Mather and > Baha'u'llah wish to predicate Liberty upon divine will and the duty to such > divine will. As an agnostic, such premises are obviously objectionable (and > illogical) to me since implicit in the argument is that Liberty without duty > to God does not exist whereas with Rousseau, Voltaire and later with Kant, > Mill and others "God" is irrelevant to the discussions of 'human' liberty, > and in fact a counter-intuitive argument. I would say Winthrop (not Mather, it should be noted) allows for liberty in both senses, i.e., Rousseau et al have confused license with liberty, producing modernity, in a sense. In Rousseau's case, as has been said, he needed to justify his own depravity. I part ways with the Enlightenment philosophes and do not revere them without serious qualification. The importance of the source being Winthrop cannot be overstated. Baha'u'llah's distinction between liberty and license resonates with classical thinking grounded in transcendence which I believe is necessary for most people. While some secular thinkers can achieve virtuous liberty, I do not believe overall that it can be maintained without a religious ethic, a truth now demonstrated in many societies around the globe, i.e., the modern problem. I respect and understand your views, Nima, but don't share them. I am a Baha'i because I do believe in Baha'u'llah's Revelation of the Will of God for this age and time, providing the right mix of old and new for the conditions of the day, though hamstrung, by the literal-minded, a very old story, rife with the antinomies that stir up the soul.... God is essential to understanding liberty, I would argue, and modern experience proves it in abundantly appalling ways. > > Hope you don't mind my adding Mather to Penn, for my own > > delectation, if no one else's. > > Not at all. Thanks again for sharing a marvelous quotation with us. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 9:13 AM Subject: ATTN - American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal - "Enemies Within - Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" by Karen Bacquet I highly recommend Karen Bacquet's article in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal, to anyone interested in the bahai faith, as perhaps the best introduction to the many conflicts and injustices that have shakened the religion during the last few decades: "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---- "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." Further details about AFF: https://www.csj.org/aff/aff_about.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 9:49 AM Subject: Letter to the Editor, Observer-Eccentric Newspapers, 3-7-02 - Letter to the Editor, Observer-Eccentric Newspapers, 3-7-02 - Letter to the Editor, Observer-Eccentric Newspapers, 3-7-02 - Letter to the Editor - March 7, 2002 - Observer & Eccentric Newspapers - Oakland County, Michigan - Circulation 120,000. A Response to half-page Baha'i Ad. Feel free to use or customize this letter to respond to any local propaganda efforts by fundamentalists in your area since it has passed at least one editor's evaluation. (Third wealthest county in the nation.) In response to the paid half-page ad by my fellow Baha'is in your February 28 issue, which offers a website link "for more information," I believe Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's Department of History, has a webpage of extensive and disturbing documentation that anyone interested in the Baha'i Faith should be aware of: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm In his book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." For numerous other views in balance to the paid ad O&E ran, I also recommend the over 50 megabytes of documentation on my own website, The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Frederick Glaysher Rochester Hills [on page A10] ---- Appeared as O & E half-page page ad on February 28, 2002, on page A3: ---- The Destiny of America and the Promise of World Peace A Statement from the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' of the United States At this time of world turmoil, the United States Bahß' community offers a perspective on the destiny of America as the promoter of world peace. More than a hundred years ago, Bahß'u'llßh, the founder of the Bahß' Faith, addressing heads of state, proclaimed that the age of maturity for the entire human race had come. The unity of humankind was now to be established as the foundation of the great peace that would mark the highest stage in humanity's spiritual and social evolution. Revolutionary and world-shaking changes were therefore inevitable. The Bahß' writings state: The world is moving on. Its events are unfolding ominously and with bewildering rapidity. The whirlwind of its passions is swift and alarmingly violent. The New World is insensibly drawn into its vortex. . . . Dangers, undreamt of and unpredictable, threaten it both from within and from without. Its governments and peoples are being gradually enmeshed in the coils of the world's recurrent crises and fierce controversies. . . . The world is contracting into a neighborhood. America, willingly or unwillingly, must face and grapple with this new situation. For purposes of national security, let alone any humanitarian motive, she must assume the obligations imposed by this newly created neighborhood. Paradoxical as it may seem, her only hope of extricating herself from the perils gathering around her is to become entangled in that very web of international association which the Hand of an inscrutable Providence is weaving. The American nation, Bahß' s believe, will evolve through tests and trials to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership, a champion of justice and unity among all peoples and nations, and a powerful servant of the cause of everlasting peace. This is the peace promised by God in the sacred texts of the world's religions. Establishing peace is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace. Universal acceptance of the spiritual principle of the oneness of humankind is essential to any successful attempt to establish world peace. Racism, one of the most baneful and persistent evils, is a major barrier to peace. The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality of the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged, prerequisites of peace. The inordinate disparity between rich and poor keeps the world in a state of instability, preventing the achievement of peace. Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Religious strife, the cause of innumerable wars and conflicts throughout history, is a major obstacle to progress. The challenge facing the world's religious leaders is to contemplate, with hearts filled with compassion and the desire for truth, the plight of humanity, and to ask themselves whether they cannot, in humility before their God, submerge their theological differences in a great spirit of mutual forbearance that will enable them to work together for the advancement of human understanding and peace. Bahß' s pray, "May this American Democracy be the first nation to establish the foundation of international agreement. May it be the first nation to proclaim the unity of mankind. May it be the first to unfurl the standard of the Most Great Peace." During this hour of crisis, we affirm our abiding faith in the destiny of America. We know that the road to its destiny is long, thorny and tortuous, but we are confident that America will emerge from her trials undivided and undefeatable. ůNational Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' s of the United States For more information and for a free copy of the booklet "The Promise of World Peace" please visit our web site at Www.us.bahai.org or call us toll free at 1-800-22-UNITE Local Phone 248-737-4006 -- https://www.us.bahai.org/world_peace/amers_destiny.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 4:09 PM Subject: Re: General question about Fred G. and the like... The Bahai Technique - Ad Hominem, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Discredit, Smear, Shun, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc., etc.... ------------------------------------------------------------------ During the last decade or two a number of observers have noted common methods many fundamentalist Bahais use to avoid various issues or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Professor Juan Cole, University of Michigan, June 12, 1998: "Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB [Covenant Breaker (heretic)] to silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect racket. Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case, either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole10.htm Professor Juan Cole, February 23, 1999: "There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear the sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to being "Baha'i" at all). Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'isor when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith. The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to a heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall silent. With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy, of "claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted, twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,' and even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by *Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them. This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all the talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot refute. Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years. He can explain it to you." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole71.htm Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992: "The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [since 1976]. The usual stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself, which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the Truth." https://fglaysher.com/LettersAmD1989-1994.htm Frederick Glaysher, June 1998: "Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai, ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to talk.religion.bahai." Ron House, November 14, 1997: "I know what you mean. I've found over the years that there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so much he says something intemperate, then point out how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this technique works, so I've been making a conscious effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions. At any other time, they would overlook faults, as Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode they go for the jugular.Very sad." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/House2.htm Fran Baker, May 1998: "Just have to say that in my experience this is a common technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a groupacts this way. Very scary." Dermod Ryder, September 19, 2001: "And then Eureka! I realised why Fred gets the treatment he does . . . for Fred has painstakingly not only assembled the evidence of the canker within but he constantly publicises it to the extent that he really gets up noses and AO noses at that! . . . I basically agree with him that the AO terrorises people - terror is more than bombs or kamikaze aircraft. A whispered aside in the right circumstances can instil terror (like a threat to be made a CB) - most ethnic cleansing is carried out by a piece of "good" advice to the effect that one would be better off NOT living in this neighbourhood, from a gentleman who is known or assumed to have the "right connections" to ensure the advice is heeded. Twenty years ago the AO tried that particular threatening tactic on with me and were told where they could stick it! Others can also testify to that including Dennis Rogers whose experiences were posted on TRB recently. And you guys hate Fred for this, for his continued exposing of the sewer that the AO has become. Of course you all hate Juan, Alison, Michael, Nima etc as well and for the same reason and give them the same treatment but somewhat reduced for they don't post as much as Fred who is just a real pain in the butt for doing what he does so well! Fred is an avid counter terrorist and he's good at it as the whimpering from the BIGS proves!" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Ryder2001.htm Dermod Ryder, February 28, 2002: "This is what is known as the "love bomb" technique. Disregard and entirely ignore the substance of any complaint or criticism and throw out this carpet of "bahai love" which will overwhelm the reason and appeal to the emotion. I've been vaccinated! What I also glean from recourse to this technique is that there is no answer to the points I raised. In effect you guys who support the AO do so through thick and thin to the point where you cannot and will not admit that it has any faults of any substantive value. Because guys like me cannot agree with you - the fault is obviously ours." K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998: "If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty] were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in their condemnations of their fellow believers, I would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've "got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not character assassination by innuendo, what is?" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Johnson18.htm Mr Mahdi, November 14, 2000: "The extremism of those who are trying to get Fred Glaysher off the Internet is beyond any rational justification, for the simple fact that Fred does not use any lewd or obscene language nor does he post irrelevant topics that are not worthy of discussion. Bahais seem to be so obsessed at maintaining their superficial "progressive" image that anything that exposes the . . . hypocrisy of the bahai faith are suppressed and attacked, in order for the bahais to keep deceiving people into thinking that these are unwarranted and baseless attacks and accusations which hold no weight in reality." Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it, is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as "negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them. When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs of its members in the first place."https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb73.htm Steven Scholl, March 12, 2002: "The problem in her [Susan Maneck] cult view of the world is the "dissident act" of shining a light on internal Baha'i affairs so that outsiders (and insiders) can learn about what really takes place in the Baha'i world. The great sin is ignoring the Baha'i taboo against speaking out against internal injustices because to do so is to tarnish the reputation of the Baha'i institutions. Good Baha'is are expected to take their abuse in silence. If they speak out against abuse, they are regarded as internal opposition and come under investigation from the Baha'i Inquisition. They are villified and threatened, even told that their status in the afterlife is threatened if they don't change their ways. And, yes, this was a key element [in] the little drama that played out between the Baha'i leadership and myself." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl4.htm David Langness, 31 Mar 1997: "I would advise you to be careful about any meetings, calls or correspondence with Hoda Mahmoudi, who used to be an ABM here in Southern California. She is quite conservative, and sees herself -- as do many of the appointed branch, sadly -- as a staunch defender of the Faith and the faithful, able and more than willing to marginalize people like you and I to discredit our ideas. This cultlike practice of shunning and casting out any dissidents has unfortunately become the chief tactic of those fundamentalist Baha'is bent on maintaining the current leadership. My worry is that the more progressive Baha'is like Juan Cole and Steve Scholl and yourself will all leave the Faith and thereby increase the power of the conservatives." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Langness.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------- LaAeterna on the fundamentalist silencing of opponents: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb65.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------- This document at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:55 AM Subject: Re: Maneck/Scholl correspondence "Freethought110" wrote in message news:newscache$meywtg$ezc$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > I was planning to go with certain information and a copy of the Sobhani and > Akhtar-Khavari files to the US Department of Justice and have them initiate > investigations on possible charges of embezzlement and corruption (and maybe > even tax evasion) against the us nsa. John Walbridge had a caniption, thus > the majnun post. > > In hindsight I definitely should have. If you do have "certain information" along the lines you claim above, I would think the right thing to do would be to bring it to the attention of the US Department of Justice and let it decide whether any laws have been broken. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:02 AM Subject: OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:03 AM Subject: Re: OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." Further details in "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Textual Analysis of "the Letter" "Randy Burns" wrote in message news:qTkr8.2058$7F1.1658@nwrddc02.gnilink.net... > Paul Hammond wrote in message > news:3cad7f8e@212.67.96.135... > > Rather, I thought it was > > to allow the expression of *all* types of political opinion, and > > prevent any kind of electoral dictatorship (in the American > > context, avoiding the President acting like a King was a > > major concern). > Some measure > of check and balance to rein in the Henotheists by making sure they rely on > the writings rather than their own "infallible guidance" is necessary. > James Madison, in The Federalist Papers, makes it clear that checks and balances will not prevent corruption but will lead to a sufficient stalemate so that leaders of good will and public opinion will have a greater chance of correcting the threat to social stability: The regular distribution of power into distinct departments; the introduction of legislative balances and checks; the institution of courts composed of judges holding their offices during good behavior; the representation of the people in the legislature by deputies of their own election: these are wholly new discoveries, or have made their principal progress towards perfection in modern times. They are means, and powerful means, by which the excellences of republican government may be retained and its imperfections lessened or avoided. The Federalist Papers : No. 9 https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed09.htm I agree with Randy that a real system of checks and balances is necessary to reign in the fundamentalists who now control Baha'u'llah's Faith. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Textual Analysis of "the Letter" An interesting excerpt from The Constitution of Virginia; June 29, 1776 (1) Bill of Rights; June 12, 1776: https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/states/va05.htm SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:a8l6i1$t80u1$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > "Randy Burns" wrote in message > news:qTkr8.2058$7F1.1658@nwrddc02.gnilink.net... > > Paul Hammond wrote in message > > news:3cad7f8e@212.67.96.135... > > > > Rather, I thought it was > > > to allow the expression of *all* types of political opinion, and > > > prevent any kind of electoral dictatorship (in the American > > > context, avoiding the President acting like a King was a > > > major concern). > > > Some measure > > of check and balance to rein in the Henotheists by making sure they rely > on > > the writings rather than their own "infallible guidance" is necessary. > > > > James Madison, in The Federalist Papers, makes it clear that > checks and balances will not prevent corruption but will lead > to a sufficient stalemate so that leaders of good will and public > opinion will have a greater chance of correcting the threat to > social stability: > > The regular distribution of power into distinct departments; the > introduction of legislative balances and checks; the institution of courts > composed of judges holding their offices during good behavior; the > representation of the people in the legislature by deputies of their own > election: these are wholly new discoveries, or have made their principal > progress towards perfection in modern times. They are means, and powerful > means, by which the excellences of republican government may be retained and > its imperfections lessened or avoided. The Federalist Papers : No. 9 > https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed09.htm > > I agree with Randy that a real system of checks and balances is necessary > to reign in the fundamentalists who now control Baha'u'llah's Faith. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Textual Analysis of "the Letter" If memory serves, Jefferson was the central author of the Virginia Bill of Rights: https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/states/va05.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:a8l7ju$tct1c$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > An interesting excerpt from The Constitution of Virginia; June 29, 1776 (1) > Bill of Rights; June 12, 1776: > https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/states/va05.htm > > SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the > manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not > by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free > exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience.... > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > news:a8l6i1$t80u1$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > "Randy Burns" wrote in message > > news:qTkr8.2058$7F1.1658@nwrddc02.gnilink.net... > > > Paul Hammond wrote in message > > > news:3cad7f8e@212.67.96.135... > > > > > > Rather, I thought it was > > > > to allow the expression of *all* types of political opinion, and > > > > prevent any kind of electoral dictatorship (in the American > > > > context, avoiding the President acting like a King was a > > > > major concern). > > > > > Some measure > > > of check and balance to rein in the Henotheists by making sure they rely > > on > > > the writings rather than their own "infallible guidance" is necessary. > > > > > > > James Madison, in The Federalist Papers, makes it clear that > > checks and balances will not prevent corruption but will lead > > to a sufficient stalemate so that leaders of good will and public > > opinion will have a greater chance of correcting the threat to > > social stability: > > > > The regular distribution of power into distinct departments; the > > introduction of legislative balances and checks; the institution of courts > > composed of judges holding their offices during good behavior; the > > representation of the people in the legislature by deputies of their own > > election: these are wholly new discoveries, or have made their principal > > progress towards perfection in modern times. They are means, and powerful > > means, by which the excellences of republican government may be retained > and > > its imperfections lessened or avoided. The Federalist Papers : No. 9 > > https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed09.htm > > > > I agree with Randy that a real system of checks and balances is necessary > > to reign in the fundamentalists who now control Baha'u'llah's Faith. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 9:45 AM Subject: Re: Textual Analysis of "the Letter" The Constitutions can be found at https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/states/statech.htm I've never read James Kent's Commentaries. My interests are mainly literary and history, not legal. Thanks, though, for bringing him to our attention. Might be something I ought to dip around in. FULL TEXT is online at https://www.constitution.org/jk/jk_000.htm Encyclopedia.com states: 1763-1847, American jurist, b. near Brewster, N.Y. He was admitted to the bar in 1785 and began practice in Poughkeepsie, N. Y. Active in the Federalist party, he served several terms in the New York legislature. In 1793, Kent moved to New York City, where his reputation for learning established him as first professor of law at Columbia College. His lectures (1794-98) were not especially well received, and he welcomed the appointment in 1798 as a judge of the state supreme court. He was made chief judge in 1804, and from 1814 until his statutory retirement in 1823 he presided over the state court of chancery. Kent's written opinions as chancellor were instrumental in reviving equity , which had largely lapsed in the United States after the American Revolution. He refashioned many of the doctrines in that area by combining concepts from English chancery jurisprudence with the principles of Roman law. After his retirement he again (1824-26) was professor of law at Columbia, but found the delivery of lectures tedious and soon resigned. He vastly expanded the material of his courses to prepare his Commentaries on American Law(4 vol., 1826-30), a systematic treatment of international law, American constitutional law, the sources of state law, and the law of personal rights and of property. It was enthusiastically received by the legal profession and in Kent's lifetime went through six editions. Bibliography: See Memoirs and Letters of James Kent by his great-grandson, William Kent (1898, repr. 1970); study by J. T. Horton (1939, repr. 1969). -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Freethought110" wrote in message news:newscache$0wh4ug$1zj$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > Fred, > > Do you know of or have access to the following work which apparently > discusses the various Constitutions of the original 13 colonies in great > depth including an extensive commentary on the Federalist papers? De > Tocqueville quotes from it throughout *Democracy in America*, > > James Kent. Commentaries on American Law published between 1826-30. > > -- > Freethought110 > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Bahai extremism on AOL's bahai message board Thanks for saying so. Let's hope, in the long run, AOL will wake up to what it's allowing to take place on the bahai message boards. Any chance you could share this with people on AOL in General Discussion, AOL Legal Department thread? -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mr Mahdi" wrote in message news:20020406022414.01912.00002335@mb-df.aol.com... > For years I have complained about the extremist elements from amongst the bahai > faith who happen to take control as "forum leaders" and "moderators" of the > bahai message board on AOL. When I mention that I know people that not only > had their accounts terminated not once but two or three times due to bahai > extremists' manipulation of AOL's TOS and deceiving AOL staff, many of them > think I am lying or exageration. They think so because it would never cross > the people's mind for a moment that a forum on an ISP will be playground for a > ultra-extremist and intolerant agenda of a group of people trying to promote > their world view and harrass those who do not agree or toe their line. > > For years, people have lost their accounts, been harrassed and slandered by the > ultra-fanatical elements from amongst the bahais on AOL. I have never > witnessed in any other forum on AOL where two successive moderators/forum > leaders with the SAME intolerant extremist agenda controlled it with an iron > fist, censoring non bahais and bahais who are not dogmatic extremists. I have > never heard on ANY AOL forum where many people who did not toe a certain line > had their accounts terminated or at least suspended because the forum leaders > and other bahais have reported them to AOL. Fred Glaysher's website shows us > extensive evidence of years of bahai extremist manipulation and outright > double-standards. > > I am confused as to why AOL has allowed this to go on and on and on and on and > on for so many years, despite the fact that several AOL members have complained > and even documented the abuse of the bahai extremist forum leaders/moderators. > > > I would like for AOL to offer an explanation as to why they have allowed this > to go on for so long. It is either they don't know or don't care. I hope that > it is the former because if it is, we can inform them (once again) as to what > goes on so they can take action. > > From a concerned member of AOL, > > Mahdi Muhammad > > https://brothermahdi.tripod.com/index.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Textual Analysis of "the Letter" A recent book you might find interesting for its discussion of constitutional order, liberty, and religion: On Two Wings: Humble Faith and Common Sense at the American Founding -- by Michael Novak 2001. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Freethought110" wrote in message news:newscache$jfa6ug$43l$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > Thanks for that, Fred. Let us say I am dipping my hands in English and > American constitutional history ;-) Fascinating area.... > > -- > Freethought110 > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > news:a8mu6s$tko4r$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > The Constitutions can be found at > > https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/states/statech.htm > > > > I've never read James Kent's Commentaries. My interests > > are mainly literary and history, not legal. Thanks, though, > > for bringing him to our attention. Might be something I > > ought to dip around in. FULL TEXT is online at > > https://www.constitution.org/jk/jk_000.htm > > > > Encyclopedia.com states: > > 1763-1847, American jurist, b. near Brewster, N.Y. He was admitted to the > > bar in 1785 and began practice in Poughkeepsie, N. Y. Active in the > > Federalist party, he served several terms in the New York legislature. In > > 1793, Kent moved to New York City, where his reputation for learning > > established him as first professor of law at Columbia College. His > lectures > > (1794-98) were not especially well received, and he welcomed the > appointment > > in 1798 as a judge of the state supreme court. He was made chief judge in > > 1804, and from 1814 until his statutory retirement in 1823 he presided > over > > the state court of chancery. Kent's written opinions as chancellor were > > instrumental in reviving equity , which had largely lapsed in the United > > States after the American Revolution. He refashioned many of the doctrines > > in that area by combining concepts from English chancery jurisprudence > with > > the principles of Roman law. After his retirement he again (1824-26) was > > professor of law at Columbia, but found the delivery of lectures tedious > and > > soon resigned. He vastly expanded the material of his courses to prepare > his > > Commentaries on American Law(4 vol., 1826-30), a systematic treatment of > > international law, American constitutional law, the sources of state law, > > and the law of personal rights and of property. It was enthusiastically > > received by the legal profession and in Kent's lifetime went through six > > editions. > > > > Bibliography: See Memoirs and Letters of James Kent by his great-grandson, > > William Kent (1898, repr. 1970); study by J. T. Horton (1939, repr. 1969). > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > "Freethought110" wrote in message > > news:newscache$0wh4ug$1zj$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > > > Fred, > > > > > > Do you know of or have access to the following work which apparently > > > discusses the various Constitutions of the original 13 colonies in great > > > depth including an extensive commentary on the Federalist papers? De > > > Tocqueville quotes from it throughout *Democracy in America*, > > > > > > James Kent. Commentaries on American Law published between 1826-30. > > > > > > -- > > > Freethought110 > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:57 AM Subject: Socrates on the Unexamined bahai Life Not worth living.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: Psalm 35 Psalm 35 [1] Plead my cause, O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me. [2] Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help. [3] Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation. [4] Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt. [5] Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. [6] Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them. [7] For without cause have they hid for me their net in a pit, which without cause they have digged for my soul. [8] Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall. [9] And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation. [10] All my bones shall say, LORD, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from him that spoileth him? [11] False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not. [12] They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul. [13] But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom. [14] I behaved myself as though he had been my friend or brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother. [15] But in mine adversity they rejoiced, and gathered themselves together: yea, the abjects gathered themselves together against me, and I knew it not; they did tear me, and ceased not: [16] With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth. [17] Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions. [18] I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among much people. [19] Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause. [20] For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land. [21] Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it. [22] This thou hast seen, O LORD: keep not silence: O Lord, be not far from me. [23] Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord. [24] Judge me, O LORD my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me. [25] Let them not say in their hearts, Ah, so would we have it: let them not say, We have swallowed him up. [26] Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishonour that magnify themselves against me. [27] Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. [28] And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long. https://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=2190116 -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Textual Analysis of "the Letter" Nima, It occurs to me that perhaps I should mention Russell Kirk's The Roots of American Order for an excellent reading of both the secular and religious background to American republican government. He has some superb chapters on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, a fellow Michigan citizen whom I've always admired. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:a8pj74$u90tl$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > A recent book you might find interesting for its > discussion of constitutional order, liberty, and religion: > > On Two Wings: Humble Faith and Common Sense > at the American Founding -- by Michael Novak 2001. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > "Freethought110" wrote in message > news:newscache$jfa6ug$43l$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > > Thanks for that, Fred. Let us say I am dipping my hands in English and > > American constitutional history ;-) Fascinating area.... > > > > -- > > Freethought110 > > > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > > news:a8mu6s$tko4r$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > > The Constitutions can be found at > > > https://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/states/statech.htm > > > > > > I've never read James Kent's Commentaries. My interests > > > are mainly literary and history, not legal. Thanks, though, > > > for bringing him to our attention. Might be something I > > > ought to dip around in. FULL TEXT is online at > > > https://www.constitution.org/jk/jk_000.htm > > > > > > Encyclopedia.com states: > > > 1763-1847, American jurist, b. near Brewster, N.Y. He was admitted to > the > > > bar in 1785 and began practice in Poughkeepsie, N. Y. Active in the > > > Federalist party, he served several terms in the New York legislature. > In > > > 1793, Kent moved to New York City, where his reputation for learning > > > established him as first professor of law at Columbia College. His > > lectures > > > (1794-98) were not especially well received, and he welcomed the > > appointment > > > in 1798 as a judge of the state supreme court. He was made chief judge > in > > > 1804, and from 1814 until his statutory retirement in 1823 he presided > > over > > > the state court of chancery. Kent's written opinions as chancellor were > > > instrumental in reviving equity , which had largely lapsed in the United > > > States after the American Revolution. He refashioned many of the > doctrines > > > in that area by combining concepts from English chancery jurisprudence > > with > > > the principles of Roman law. After his retirement he again (1824-26) was > > > professor of law at Columbia, but found the delivery of lectures tedious > > and > > > soon resigned. He vastly expanded the material of his courses to prepare > > his > > > Commentaries on American Law(4 vol., 1826-30), a systematic treatment of > > > international law, American constitutional law, the sources of state > law, > > > and the law of personal rights and of property. It was enthusiastically > > > received by the legal profession and in Kent's lifetime went through six > > > editions. > > > > > > Bibliography: See Memoirs and Letters of James Kent by his > great-grandson, > > > William Kent (1898, repr. 1970); study by J. T. Horton (1939, repr. > 1969). > > > > > > -- > > > Frederick Glaysher > > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > > "Freethought110" wrote in message > > > news:newscache$0wh4ug$1zj$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > > > > Fred, > > > > > > > > Do you know of or have access to the following work which apparently > > > > discusses the various Constitutions of the original 13 colonies in > great > > > > depth including an extensive commentary on the Federalist papers? De > > > > Tocqueville quotes from it throughout *Democracy in America*, > > > > > > > > James Kent. Commentaries on American Law published between 1826-30. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Freethought110 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:05 AM Subject: AOL - The problem on these bahai messages boards is not with AOL guidelines but the FYI Subj: Board Posting at Keyword: Spirituality Date: 4/7/2002 3:06:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: LDRS LFST Shahid To: Fglaysh12002 CC: LDRS LFST Mgr Dear Member, Regarding your message posted at Keyword: Baha'i>General Discussion>Re:Disagreements with AOL guidelines In order for all members to enjoy our message boards, our community has certain standards of conduct for members to follow. Please review Keyword: Message Board Product Guidelines and Keyword: Lifestyles Board Standards for information on what is appropriate in our community. Based on these standards and guidelines, your post was removed to avoid disruption to the message board discussion. Depending on the severity of the disruption, a report may have been submitted to AOL's Community Action Team for further review. We appreciate your taking the time to read this letter. Thank you. If you have any questions or comments, please forward them to LDRS LFST Mgr. Regards, LDRS LFST Shahid Volunteer Message Board Leader AOL Lifestyles Community ======== Copy of Your Message ======== Subject: Re: Disagreements with AOL guidelines Date: 4/6/02 11:19 AM Eastern Standard Time From: Fglaysh12002 Message-id: <20020406111940.10643.00003266@mb-fo.aol.com> The problem on these bahai messages boards is not with AOL guidelines but the unfair, unjust, and aribitrary manner in which they are abused by those in whom AOL has misplaced its trust. Frederick Glaysher www.google.com Search Engine: Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:30 AM Subject: AOL - AOL Legal Department's Address and many messages suppressed and deleted by Maneck on AOL AOL Legal Department's Address and many messages suppressed and deleted by Maneck on AOL https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL2002.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:46 AM Subject: ATTN - AOL - 1998 Message Remains All the More True Today..... From: Barthaman@aol.com To: RBCFAdmin@aol.com Cc: Barthaman@aol.com Subject: Re: Unpopular voices getting equal time.... Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:03 PM RBCF Administration (Jerry White): I just wanted to add my voice to Frederick Glaysher's in the appeal for more tolerance of pluralism (opposing, or dissenting viewpoints) in Baha'i Forums. The substance of what Mr. Glaysher says is absolutely true--I've observed the problem myself for a number of years. Even the most carefully worded, tactful style would be found objectionable by conservative Baha'is in this context--because there are sacred cows in the Baha'i religion, as in other religions, that remain off-limits for questioning. Those who persist in questioning are soon perceived as a mortal threat to the flock of "true believers." Baha'i critics, naturally, are never welcome in "their" forums. Critics like Glaysher (or myself) are immediately singled out for exclusion. We feel our views are just as valid and informative as the messages of the orthodox camp. Sure, we need not be strident, but what justification is there to shield the "true believers" from opposing, responsible views--the same views they will ultimately face in the real world anyway? Counter attacks by the Baha'is on Glaysher (and others) are to be expected. They'll call him anything--"anti-Baha'i," "covenant-breaker"--to dismiss his credibility and weaken his influence. Certainly, in the regard, the Baha'is are anti-democracy--a contradiction in terms of what the internet is all about. So, what is my point? It's that Baha'i forums should be required to make concessions like any other intellectually honest forums, allowing a fair share of unpopular views to contrast what has so far been propagandistic drival and authoritarian muscle-flexing. Glaysher and I believe that the Baha'i Faith is a world-class religion worth a whole lot more than that. We believe that fundamentalist mentalities--believers from Christian and Islamic backgrounds--have usurped all of the mainstream public forums now available to Baha'is--within and without their religious community. In light of the above, please reconsider (if there is room left to do so) Mr. Glaysher's appeals. He does speak for a number of others in this regard. Thanks for "listening." --Barthaman https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL12.htm See also the main AOL menu on my website: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:49 AM Subject: REFORMATTED Re: ATTN - AOL - 1998 Message Remains All the More True Today..... From: Barthaman@aol.com To: RBCFAdmin@aol.com Cc: Barthaman@aol.com Subject: Re: Unpopular voices getting equal time.... Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:03 PM RBCF Administration (Jerry White): I just wanted to add my voice to Frederick Glaysher's in the appeal for more tolerance of pluralism (opposing, or dissenting viewpoints) in Baha'i Forums. The substance of what Mr. Glaysher says is absolutely true--I've observed the problem myself for a number of years. Even the most carefully worded, tactful style would be found objectionable by conservative Baha'is in this context--because there are sacred cows in the Baha'i religion, as in other religions, that remain off-limits for questioning. Those who persist in questioning are soon perceived as a mortal threat to the flock of "true believers." Baha'i critics, naturally, are never welcome in "their" forums. Critics like Glaysher (or myself) are immediately singled out for exclusion. We feel our views are just as valid and informative as the messages of the orthodox camp. Sure, we need not be strident, but what justification is there to shield the "true believers" from opposing, responsible views--the same views they will ultimately face in the real world anyway? Counter attacks by the Baha'is on Glaysher (and others) are to be expected. They'll call him anything--"anti-Baha'i," "covenant-breaker"--to dismiss his credibility and weaken his influence. Certainly, in the regard, the Baha'is are anti-democracy--a contradiction in terms of what the internet is all about. So, what is my point? It's that Baha'i forums should be required to make concessions like any other intellectually honest forums, allowing a fair share of unpopular views to contrast what has so far been propagandistic drival and authoritarian muscle-flexing. Glaysher and I believe that the Baha'i Faith is a world-class religion worth a whole lot more than that. We believe that fundamentalist mentalities--believers from Christian and Islamic backgrounds--have usurped all of the mainstream public forums now available to Baha'is--within and without their religious community. In light of the above, please reconsider (if there is room left to do so) Mr. Glaysher's appeals. He does speak for a number of others in this regard. Thanks for "listening." --Barthaman https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL12.htm See also the main AOL menu on my website: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:FG@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:58 AM To: Barthaman@aol.com Subject: ATTN - AOL - 1998 Message Remains All the More True Today..... From: Barthaman@aol.com To: RBCFAdmin@aol.com Cc: Barthaman@aol.com Subject: Re: Unpopular voices getting equal time.... Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:03 PM RBCF Administration (Jerry White): I just wanted to add my voice to Frederick Glaysher's in the appeal for more tolerance of pluralism (opposing, or dissenting viewpoints) in Baha'i Forums. The substance of what Mr. Glaysher says is absolutely true--I've observed the problem myself for a number of years. Even the most carefully worded, tactful style would be found objectionable by conservative Baha'is in this context--because there are sacred cows in the Baha'i religion, as in other religions, that remain off-limits for questioning. Those who persist in questioning are soon perceived as a mortal threat to the flock of "true believers." Baha'i critics, naturally, are never welcome in "their" forums. Critics like Glaysher (or myself) are immediately singled out for exclusion. We feel our views are just as valid and informative as the messages of the orthodox camp. Sure, we need not be strident, but what justification is there to shield the "true believers" from opposing, responsible views--the same views they will ultimately face in the real world anyway? Counter attacks by the Baha'is on Glaysher (and others) are to be expected. They'll call him anything--"anti-Baha'i," "covenant-breaker"--to dismiss his credibility and weaken his influence. Certainly, in the regard, the Baha'is are anti-democracy--a contradiction in terms of what the internet is all about. So, what is my point? It's that Baha'i forums should be required to make concessions like any other intellectually honest forums, allowing a fair share of unpopular views to contrast what has so far been propagandistic drival and authoritarian muscle-flexing. Glaysher and I believe that the Baha'i Faith is a world-class religion worth a whole lot more than that. We believe that fundamentalist mentalities--believers from Christian and Islamic backgrounds--have usurped all of the mainstream public forums now available to Baha'is--within and without their religious community. In light of the above, please reconsider (if there is room left to do so) Mr. Glaysher's appeals. He does speak for a number of others in this regard. Thanks for "listening." --Barthaman https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL12.htm See also the main AOL menu on my website: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:FG@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:54 PM To: Barthaman@aol.com Subject: Your 1998 Message Barthaman, May I have your explicit permission to repost this? It's come to my attention lately as still as true as ever and I believe others can benefit from the perspective of lapsed time. Thanks. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship From: Barthaman@aol.com To: RBCFAdmin@aol.com Cc: Barthaman@aol.com Subject: Re: Unpopular voices getting equal time.... Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:03 PM RBCF Administration (Jerry White): I just wanted to add my voice to Frederick Glaysher's in the appeal for more tolerance of pluralism (opposing, or dissenting viewpoints) in Baha'i Forums. The substance of what Mr. Glaysher says is absolutely true--I've observed the problem myself for a number of years. Even the most carefully worded, tactful style would be found objectionable by conservative Baha'is in this context--because there are sacred cows in the Baha'i religion, as in other religions, that remain off-limits for questioning. Those who persist in questioning are soon perceived as a mortal threat to the flock of "true believers." Baha'i critics, naturally, are never welcome in "their" forums. Critics like Glaysher (or myself) are immediately singled out for exclusion. We feel our views are just as valid and informative as the messages of the orthodox camp. Sure, we need not be strident, but what justification is there to shield the "true believers" from opposing, responsible views--the same views they will ultimately face in the real world anyway? Counter attacks by the Baha'is on Glaysher (and others) are to be expected. They'll call him anything--"anti-Baha'i," "covenant-breaker"--to dismiss his credibility and weaken his influence. Certainly, in the regard, the Baha'is are anti-democracy--a contradiction in terms of what the internet is all about. So, what is my point? It's that Baha'i forums should be required to make concessions like any other intellectually honest forums, allowing a fair share of unpopular views to contrast what has so far been propagandistic drival and authoritarian muscle-flexing. Glaysher and I believe that the Baha'i Faith is a world-class religion worth a whole lot more than that. We believe that fundamentalist mentalities--believers from Christian and Islamic backgrounds--have usurped all of the mainstream public forums now available to Baha'is--within and without their religious community. In light of the above, please reconsider (if there is room left to do so) Mr. Glaysher's appeals. He does speak for a number of others in this regard. Thanks for "listening." --Barthaman https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL12.htm See also the main AOL menu on my website: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Fundamentalist symptoms "Freethought110" wrote in message news:de9e05b.0204101550.38d8f3e4@posting.google.com... > > Nope. I am just me. I do not belong to a "side". I am not a > > fundamentalist nor am I a liberal. I am just a Baha'i. > > Sorry to break it out to you, Dave, you are indeed a *fundamentalist* > in every sense of the word. > -- > Freethought110 To understand what lies behind fundamentalist facades here on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai, one might want to consider, as evidence, the following message, from the person above, who is "just a Baha'i": https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:33 AM Subject: bahai - Terrorism & OFF- ONline Stalking - bahai - Terrorism & OFF- ONline Stalking - bahai - Terrorism & OFF- ONline Stalking - After twenty-five years as a member of the bahai faith, I see *little* difference between the basic underlying fanaticism of the perpetrators of the WTC terrorist attack and the fundamentalism of the worst elements among my fellow bahais. I cite Dave Fiorito's intolerant, threatening, hateful post as further EVIDENCE, along with much of the documentation on my website. https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.google.com&output=gplain In my view, only the uhj can begin to remedy this situation by abolishing the censorship of "review" and ceasing to interpret out of existence of the moderate and liberal Teachings on free speech and conscience, thereby by setting a new direction and tone for the faith. I consider it my duty, as a bahai and otherwise, to inform my fellow believers and citizens of how grave matters truly stand within what purports to be Baha'u'llah's religion. Some of the evidence may be found at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/hate.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/CHarassment.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/BahaiThreatsLawsuit.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/BahaiAttacksonme.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Ex.htm See Karen Bacquet's article published in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal to understand what is really taking place now on AOL's message boards: Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:35 AM Subject: bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists Having observed the tactics of bahai fundamentalists for over twenty-five years, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always Slander, Demonize, Discredit, Shun, Ad Hominem, Smear, Scapegoat, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Silence, Harass, etc., etc., the individual.... All of which has become known as "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for uninformed non-bahais that the individual in question is unbalanced, aberrant, "spamming," a liar, crazy, disgruntled, reprobate, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject by shifting to the past and arguing over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses the "temporary measure" of "review," for over 80 years now, to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to discuss anything with them is simply a waste of time and energy. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of bahai fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts. My reposts are intended for the uninformed and naive, exactly what enrages the extremists among my fellow bahais. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how deceitful bahai fanatics have been and are willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record so that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai website. It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so many years.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 5:40 PM Subject: Re: bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - "Alma Engels" wrote in message news:rkOt8.3961$3z3.356545@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... Lately I have been thinking that someone like Fred who is a > Baha'i but an individualistic one is here to test the rest of us Baha'is. > Can we accept him? And live in peace with him? If we can't with another > Baha'i, what makes us think that Baha'is are ready to accept and live with > peace with non-Baha'is. > > In peace, Alma, It's a pleasure to be understood. Two clarifications: I would say that all souls stand as individuals before God, and each and every one of us is a test to one another.... "When every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable." --Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 5:50 PM Subject: Re: bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - "Paul Hammond" wrote in message news:3cb831c1@212.67.96.135... > > Well, now, as to whether Fred is a Baha'i, or a baha'i, there's another > issues that has been flogged beyond death. > > AIUI, Fred definitely considers himself to be Baha'i - so he is as > Baha'i as my friend Karen, or Alison Marshall is. Please define AIUI. > But, since enquiries seem to have established that he is no longer > enrolled on the NSA's official list of Baha'is, he *isn't* a Baha'i, as > in "signed on to the AO's list Baha'i". Paul, The "enquiries" of liars and a slanderers have established nothing. The fact remains that neither the nsa nor the uhj has contacted me in any way whatsoever. You may choose to accept the false witness of slanderers; I do not. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 5:58 PM Subject: Re: bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: Re: bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - "Alma Engels" wrote in message news:Qx7u8.6078$3z3.580298@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > Fred -- posts are so brief and in addition I have 'slippery' fingers which > mistype and I correct. I didn't mean to imply that you are only a 'test.' > You are a person in your own rights and a follower of Baha'u'llah. But your > ways are not my ways just as the Haifan adherents (my how I work to avoid > labels they don't like) are not mine. And somehow we don't seem able to > bridge the gap with acceptance of each other just as the person is. Alma, Actually, while I may not agree with you, or any other human being about whatever in particular, I believe I do accept the right of others to think and say what they wish without fear of coercion and terror. "Soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:13 AM Subject: Re: bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - Scapegoat https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scapegoat.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:11 AM Subject: Re: The Catholic Church continues as God promised. See Karen Bacquet's article published in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal to understand what is really taking place now on AOL's message boards: Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bill Velek" wrote in message news:3CBCFBBA.6030101@alliancecable.net... ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 7:23 AM Subject: OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented ------ OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." Further details in "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 8:18 AM Subject: The Bahai Technique - Ad Hominem, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Discredit, Smear, Shun, Revile, Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc., etc.... The Bahai Technique - Ad Hominem, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Discredit, Smear, Shun, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc., etc.... ------------------------------------------------------------------ During the last decade or two a number of observers have noted common methods many fundamentalist Bahais use to avoid various issues or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own: ------------------------------------------------------------------ OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scapegoat.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ Professor Juan Cole, University of Michigan, June 12, 1998: "Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB [Covenant Breaker (heretic)] to silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect racket. Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case, either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole10.htm Professor Juan Cole, February 23, 1999: "There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear the sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to being "Baha'i" at all). Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'isor when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith. The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to a heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall silent. With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy, of "claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted, twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,' and even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by *Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them. This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all the talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot refute. Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years. He can explain it to you." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole71.htm Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992: "The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [since 1976]. The usual stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself, which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the Truth." https://fglaysher.com/LettersAmD1989-1994.htm Frederick Glaysher, June 1998: "Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai, ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to talk.religion.bahai." Ron House, November 14, 1997: "I know what you mean. I've found over the years that there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so much he says something intemperate, then point out how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this technique works, so I've been making a conscious effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions. At any other time, they would overlook faults, as Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode they go for the jugular.Very sad." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/House2.htm Fran Baker, May 1998: "Just have to say that in my experience this is a common technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a groupacts this way. Very scary." Dermod Ryder, September 19, 2001: "And then Eureka! I realised why Fred gets the treatment he does . . . for Fred has painstakingly not only assembled the evidence of the canker within but he constantly publicises it to the extent that he really gets up noses and AO noses at that! . . . I basically agree with him that the AO terrorises people - terror is more than bombs or kamikaze aircraft. A whispered aside in the right circumstances can instil terror (like a threat to be made a CB) - most ethnic cleansing is carried out by a piece of "good" advice to the effect that one would be better off NOT living in this neighbourhood, from a gentleman who is known or assumed to have the "right connections" to ensure the advice is heeded. Twenty years ago the AO tried that particular threatening tactic on with me and were told where they could stick it! Others can also testify to that including Dennis Rogers whose experiences were posted on TRB recently. And you guys hate Fred for this, for his continued exposing of the sewer that the AO has become. Of course you all hate Juan, Alison, Michael, Nima etc as well and for the same reason and give them the same treatment but somewhat reduced for they don't post as much as Fred who is just a real pain in the butt for doing what he does so well! Fred is an avid counter terrorist and he's good at it as the whimpering from the BIGS proves!" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Ryder2001.htm Dermod Ryder, February 28, 2002: "This is what is known as the "love bomb" technique. Disregard and entirely ignore the substance of any complaint or criticism and throw out this carpet of "bahai love" which will overwhelm the reason and appeal to the emotion. I've been vaccinated! What I also glean from recourse to this technique is that there is no answer to the points I raised. In effect you guys who support the AO do so through thick and thin to the point where you cannot and will not admit that it has any faults of any substantive value. Because guys like me cannot agree with you - the fault is obviously ours." K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998: "If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty] were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in their condemnations of their fellow believers, I would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've "got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not character assassination by innuendo, what is?" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Johnson18.htm Mr Mahdi, November 14, 2000: "The extremism of those who are trying to get Fred Glaysher off the Internet is beyond any rational justification, for the simple fact that Fred does not use any lewd or obscene language nor does he post irrelevant topics that are not worthy of discussion. Bahais seem to be so obsessed at maintaining their superficial "progressive" image that anything that exposes the . . . hypocrisy of the bahai faith are suppressed and attacked, in order for the bahais to keep deceiving people into thinking that these are unwarranted and baseless attacks and accusations which hold no weight in reality." Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it, is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as "negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them. When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs of its members in the first place."https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb73.htm Steven Scholl, March 12, 2002: "The problem in her [Susan Maneck] cult view of the world is the "dissident act" of shining a light on internal Baha'i affairs so that outsiders (and insiders) can learn about what really takes place in the Baha'i world. The great sin is ignoring the Baha'i taboo against speaking out against internal injustices because to do so is to tarnish the reputation of the Baha'i institutions. Good Baha'is are expected to take their abuse in silence. If they speak out against abuse, they are regarded as internal opposition and come under investigation from the Baha'i Inquisition. They are villified and threatened, even told that their status in the afterlife is threatened if they don't change their ways. And, yes, this was a key element [in] the little drama that played out between the Baha'i leadership and myself." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl4.htm David Langness, 31 Mar 1997: "I would advise you to be careful about any meetings, calls or correspondence with Hoda Mahmoudi, who used to be an ABM here in Southern California. She is quite conservative, and sees herself -- as do many of the appointed branch, sadly -- as a staunch defender of the Faith and the faithful, able and more than willing to marginalize people like you and I to discredit our ideas. This cultlike practice of shunning and casting out any dissidents has unfortunately become the chief tactic of those fundamentalist Baha'is bent on maintaining the current leadership. My worry is that the more progressive Baha'is like Juan Cole and Steve Scholl and yourself will all leave the Faith and thereby increase the power of the conservatives." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Langness.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------- LaAeterna on the fundamentalist silencing of opponents: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb65.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------- https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 9:16 AM Subject: Barthaman - 1998 - AOL Censorship by bahai Fundamentalists FYI --- Dear Frederick, Yes, you can repost my earlier message (below). Best wishes, Barthaman In a message dated 4/10/2002 10:56:24 AM Mountain Daylight Time, FG@ writes: Subj:Your 1998 Message Date:4/10/2002 10:56:24 AM Mountain Daylight Time From: FG@ (Bahai Faith) To: Barthaman@aol.com Barthaman, May I have your explicit permission to repost this? It's come to my attention lately as still as true as ever and I believe others can benefit from the perspective of lapsed time. Thanks. Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship From: Barthaman@aol.com To: RBCFAdmin@aol.com Cc: Barthaman@aol.com Subject: Re: Unpopular voices getting equal time.... Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:03 PM RBCF Administration (Jerry White): I just wanted to add my voice to Frederick Glaysher's in the appeal for more tolerance of pluralism (opposing, or dissenting viewpoints) in Baha'i Forums. The substance of what Mr. Glaysher says is absolutely true--I've observed the problem myself for a number of years. Even the most carefully worded, tactful style would be found objectionable by conservative Baha'is in this context--because there are sacred cows in the Baha'i religion, as in other religions, that remain off-limits for questioning. Those who persist in questioning are soon perceived as a mortal threat to the flock of "true believers." Baha'i critics, naturally, are never welcome in "their" forums. Critics like Glaysher (or myself) are immediately singled out for exclusion. We feel our views are just as valid and informative as the messages of the orthodox camp. Sure, we need not be strident, but what justification is there to shield the "true believers" from opposing, responsible views--the same views they will ultimately face in the real world anyway? Counter attacks by the Baha'is on Glaysher (and others) are to be expected. They'll call him anything--"anti-Baha'i," "covenant-breaker"--to dismiss his credibility and weaken his influence. Certainly, in the regard, the Baha'is are anti-democracy--a contradiction in terms of what the internet is all about. So, what is my point? It's that Baha'i forums should be required to make concessions like any other intellectually honest forums, allowing a fair share of unpopular views to contrast what has so far been propagandistic drival and authoritarian muscle-flexing. Glaysher and I believe that the Baha'i Faith is a world-class religion worth a whole lot more than that. We believe that fundamentalist mentalities--believers from Christian and Islamic backgrounds--have usurped all of the mainstream public forums now available to Baha'is--within and without their religious community. In light of the above, please reconsider (if there is room left to do so) Mr. Glaysher's appeals. He does speak for a number of others in this regard. Thanks for "listening." --Barthaman https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL12.htm See also the main AOL menu on my website: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:35 PM Subject: Re: The Catholic Church continues as God promised. The founder of Baha'i said that all religions > eventually become meddled by men. Christianity became meddled after c. > 3-centuries, Islam became meddled after c. 4-centuries, and, somewhat > ironically, Baha'i is beginning to be meddled after a century and a half. > > > > cheerz, Bill. -- See Karen Bacquet's article published in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal: Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community": https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 6:59 PM Subject: Baha'u'llah - Hidden Words 64. O OPPRESSORS OF EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man's injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed it with My seal of glory. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Tyranny.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Justice.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:37 AM Subject: Re: The Catholic Church continues as God promised. Even as He hath revealed: "No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers." For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory. Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur'án, revealed: "I am all the Prophets." Likewise, He saith: "I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus ." Similar statements have been made by Imám `Alí. Sayings such as these, which indicate the essential unity of those Exponents of Oneness, have also emanated from the Channels of God's immortal utterance, and the Treasuries of the gems of Divine knowledge, and have been recorded in the Scriptures. These Countenances are the recipients of the Divine Command, and the Day Springs of His Revelation. This Revelation is exalted above the veils of plurality and the exigencies of number. Thus He saith: "Our Cause is but One." Inasmuch as the Cause is one and the same, the Exponents thereof also must needs be one and the same. Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, p. 51. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 6:57 PM Subject: Dialogue - was the UHJ directly responsible for the shut down of "Dialogue" Given the seriousness of your concerns, instead of my interpreting what happened, I suggest you read the primary material from people involved with Dialogue and decide for yourself: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl2.htm https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol2/dialog.htm You'll also find a great deal of additional discussion about Dialogue under Juan Cole and numerous other links on my website. Best wishes, Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ -- Dear Sir: I am the twenty-one year old son of Baha'i parents and have yet to declare. My recent engagement to a non-Baha'i girl has raised issues of concerns in regard to Baha'i fundamentalism, and I am now seriously looking into such issues before I get married, for my family insists that the wedding be a Baha'i ceremony and this obviously cannot be the case until I declare. As you appear to be an expert, I have a specific question: the magazine "Dialogue" that was closed down in the 80s, how exactly was it shut down? Could the editors have not continued to run the magazine despite the Universal House's objections? Was the UHJ funding the magazine, making it impossible to run after their objection or was it as simple as the editors not wanting to be deemed Covenant Breakers? I suppose the bottom line is, was the UHJ directly responsible for the shut down of "Dialogue" or was it a decision that in the end rested on the shoulders of the editors? I appreciate any information you may give. Thank you. Respectfully, [name withheld to protect the innocent] ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Dialogue - was the UHJ directly responsible for the shut down of "Dialogue" You might find some of the responses helpful on talk.religion.bahai on Usenet. Know how to access it? See below: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Usenet.htm Karen Bacquet was an eye witness to Dialogue being denounced. See her many messages too in addition to her recent posts today on talk.religion.bahai: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Bacquet.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship -- Dear Sir: I am the twenty-one year old son of Baha'i parents and have yet to declare. My recent engagement to a non-Baha'i girl has raised issues of concerns in regard to Baha'i fundamentalism, and I am now seriously looking into such issues before I get married, for my family insists that the wedding be a Baha'i ceremony and this obviously cannot be the case until I declare. As you appear to be an expert, I have a specific question: the magazine "Dialogue" that was closed down in the 80s, how exactly was it shut down? Could the editors have not continued to run the magazine despite the Universal House's objections? Was the UHJ funding the magazine, making it impossible to run after their objection or was it as simple as the editors not wanting to be deemed Covenant Breakers? I suppose the bottom line is, was the UHJ directly responsible for the shut down of "Dialogue" or was it a decision that in the end rested on the shoulders of the editors? I appreciate any information you may give. Thank you. Respectfully, [name withheld to protect the innocent] ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:06 PM Subject: Dialogue - was the UHJ directly responsible for the shut down of "Dialogue" Given the seriousness of your concerns, instead of my interpreting what happened, I suggest you read the primary material from people involved with Dialogue and decide for yourself: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl2.htm https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol2/dialog.htm You'll also find a great deal of additional discussion about Dialogue under Juan Cole and numerous other links on my website. Best wishes, Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ -- Dear Sir: I am the twenty-one year old son of Baha'i parents and have yet to declare. My recent engagement to a non-Baha'i girl has raised issues of concerns in regard to Baha'i fundamentalism, and I am now seriously looking into such issues before I get married, for my family insists that the wedding be a Baha'i ceremony and this obviously cannot be the case until I declare. As you appear to be an expert, I have a specific question: the magazine "Dialogue" that was closed down in the 80s, how exactly was it shut down? Could the editors have not continued to run the magazine despite the Universal House's objections? Was the UHJ funding the magazine, making it impossible to run after their objection or was it as simple as the editors not wanting to be deemed Covenant Breakers? I suppose the bottom line is, was the UHJ directly responsible for the shut down of "Dialogue" or was it a decision that in the end rested on the shoulders of the editors? I appreciate any information you may give. Thank you. Respectfully, [name withheld to protect the innocent] ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:36 PM Subject: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-December 2001 Issue One Country Newsletter of the bahai international community 866 United Nations Plaza, Suite 120 NY, NY 10017 1country@bic.org Please remove me from your mailing list. While I was an accredited participant at the Millennium Forum (May 22-26, 2000), I never gave permission to the bahai international community to use my private information for the delivery of its deceptive and hypocritical propaganda. RECID#: 26201 Mr. Frederick Glaysher INDEPENDENT PARTICIPANT [address withheld to protect me from further recriminations] EXCERPTS: The human spirit must be free to know. Apprehending who we are, for what purpose we exist, and how we should live our lives, is a basic impluse of human consciousness. This quest for self-understanding and meaning is the esssence of life itself. The innate and fundamental aspiration to investigate reality is thus a right and an obligation of every human being. To search for truth--to see with one's "own eyes and not through the eyes of other"--is to undertake a procvess of spiritual discovery with a keen sense of justice and openness.... The right to freedom of thought, conscience and belief now codified in international human rights instruments directly finds its roots in the scriptures of the world's religions. This fact should assure each of us that truth need not be feared, as it has many facets and shelters all of our diverse expressions of faith. If, after all, people of religious faith believe that the Creator is eternal and the center of all existence, then they must also believe that the unfettered and genuine search for truth will lead to truth.... Etc., etc., etc.... NON-BAHAI OBSERVERS: Please compare these dishonest claims with the 50+ megabyte record of bahai coercion and suppression of conscience available on my website below. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:08 AM Subject: Re: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-December 2001 Issue The bahai international community is abusing its access to the Millennium Forum's list of participants by improperly using people's addresses. See link below for the list of participants: https://www.millenniumforum.org/html/MFParticipants.pdf "This information is intended strictly as a reference and should not be used in any other fashion without the written permission of the Millennium Forum." There are 335 pages of names and addresses, mine being only one among the many thousands to whom the bahai international community has been sending its deceptive propaganda piece now for over two years. Notice that the contact email for the Millennium Forum has a "bic" domain, bahai international community, mngof@bic.org and can hardly be trusted to handle properly any complaint since THEY ARE the problem, which leaves little choice but to appeal elsewhere: MFDiscuss@yahoogroups.com and inquiries@un.org -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:aa4k7j$7mfav$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > One Country > Newsletter of the bahai international community > 866 United Nations Plaza, Suite 120 > NY, NY 10017 1country@bic.org > > Please remove me from your mailing list. While I was an accredited > participant at the Millennium Forum (May 22-26, 2000), I never gave > permission to the bahai international community to use my private > information for the delivery of its deceptive and hypocritical propaganda. > > RECID#: 26201 > Mr. Frederick Glaysher > INDEPENDENT PARTICIPANT > [address withheld to protect me from further recriminations] > > > EXCERPTS: > > The human spirit must be free to know. Apprehending who we are, for what > purpose we exist, and how we should live our lives, is a basic impluse of > human consciousness. This quest for self-understanding and meaning is the > esssence of life itself. The innate and fundamental aspiration to > investigate reality is thus a right and an obligation of every human being. > > To search for truth--to see with one's "own eyes and not through the eyes of > other"--is to undertake a procvess of spiritual discovery with a keen sense > of justice and openness.... > > The right to freedom of thought, conscience and belief now codified in > international human rights instruments directly finds its roots in the > scriptures of the world's religions. This fact should assure each of us that > truth need not be feared, as it has many facets and shelters all of our > diverse expressions of faith. If, after all, people of religious faith > believe that the Creator is eternal and the center of all existence, then > they must also believe that the unfettered and genuine search for truth will > lead to truth.... Etc., etc., etc.... > > NON-BAHAI OBSERVERS: > > Please compare these dishonest claims with the 50+ megabyte record of bahai > coercion and suppression of conscience available on my website below. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:FG@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:22 AM To: earthrisepress@comcast.net Subject: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-December 2001 Issue The bahai international community is abusing its access to the Millennium Forum's list of participants by improperly using people's addresses. See link below for the list of participants: https://www.millenniumforum.org/html/MFParticipants.pdf "This information is intended strictly as a reference and should not be used in any other fashion without the written permission of the Millennium Forum." There are 335 pages of names and addresses, mine being only one among the many thousands to whom the bahai international community has been sending its deceptive propaganda piece now for over two years. Notice that the contact email for the Millennium Forum has a "bic" domain, bahai international community, mngof@bic.org and can hardly be trusted to handle properly any complaint since THEY ARE the problem, which leaves little choice but to appeal elsewhere: MFDiscuss@yahoogroups.com and inquiries@un.org -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:aa4k7j$7mfav$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > One Country > Newsletter of the bahai international community > 866 United Nations Plaza, Suite 120 > NY, NY 10017 1country@bic.org > > Please remove me from your mailing list. While I was an accredited > participant at the Millennium Forum (May 22-26, 2000), I never gave > permission to the bahai international community to use my private > information for the delivery of its deceptive and hypocritical propaganda. > > RECID#: 26201 > Mr. Frederick Glaysher > INDEPENDENT PARTICIPANT > [address withheld to protect me from further recriminations] > > > EXCERPTS: > > The human spirit must be free to know. Apprehending who we are, for what > purpose we exist, and how we should live our lives, is a basic impluse of > human consciousness. This quest for self-understanding and meaning is the > esssence of life itself. The innate and fundamental aspiration to > investigate reality is thus a right and an obligation of every human being. > > To search for truth--to see with one's "own eyes and not through the eyes of > other"--is to undertake a procvess of spiritual discovery with a keen sense > of justice and openness.... > > The right to freedom of thought, conscience and belief now codified in > international human rights instruments directly finds its roots in the > scriptures of the world's religions. This fact should assure each of us that > truth need not be feared, as it has many facets and shelters all of our > diverse expressions of faith. If, after all, people of religious faith > believe that the Creator is eternal and the center of all existence, then > they must also believe that the unfettered and genuine search for truth will > lead to truth.... Etc., etc., etc.... > > NON-BAHAI OBSERVERS: > > Please compare these dishonest claims with the 50+ megabyte record of bahai > coercion and suppression of conscience available on my website below. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: Re: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-December 2001 Issue On the first page of the list of participants it is clearly stated that "This information is intended strictly as a reference and should not be used in any other fashion without the written permission of the Millennium Forum." https://www.millenniumforum.org/html/MFParticipants.pdf As an accredited participant, I ask does the bic have such explicit WRITTEN PERMISSION from the Millennium Form? cc: MFDiscuss@yahoogroups.com and inquiries@un.org -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship >From: "One Country" <1country@bic.org> >To: "Frederick Glaysher" >Subject: RE: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-Decem >Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:15:40 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.236.137.99] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBE8F264600BB40043161D8EC896315240; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:08:06 -0700 >Received: from ONECOUNTRY ([192.168.0.16])by mail.bic.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA28647;Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:08:02 -0400 >From 1country@bic.org Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:08:58 -0700 >Message-ID: >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) >Importance: Normal >X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >In-Reply-To: > > >Dear Mr. Glaysher, > >Your address has been removed from our complimentary mailing list. We apologize >for any inconvenience. > >Regards, > >Veronica Shoffstall, Editorial Assistant >ONE COUNTRY, the newsletter of the >Bahá'í International Community >866 United Nations Plaza, Suite 120 >New York, NY 10017 USA >tel: 212-803-2543 fax: 212-803-2566 >email: rshoffst@bic.org >web: https://www.onecountry.org >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens." >Bahá'u'lláh > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: FG [mailto:FG@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:36 PM > > To: 1country@bic.org > > Subject: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the > > Darkness" - October-Decem > > > > > > One Country > > Newsletter of the bahai international community > > 866 United Nations Plaza, Suite 120 > > NY, NY 10017 1country@bic.org > > > > Please remove me from your mailing list. While I was an accredited > > participant at the Millennium Forum (May 22-26, 2000), I never gave > > permission to the bahai international community to use my private > > information for the delivery of its deceptive and hypocritical propaganda. > > > > RECID#: 26201 > > Mr. Frederick Glaysher > > INDEPENDENT PARTICIPANT > > [address withheld to protect me from further recriminations] > > > > > > EXCERPTS: > > > > The human spirit must be free to know. Apprehending who we are, for what > > purpose we exist, and how we should live our lives, is a basic impluse of > > human consciousness. This quest for self-understanding and meaning is the > > esssence of life itself. The innate and fundamental aspiration to > > investigate reality is thus a right and an obligation of every human being. > > > > To search for truth--to see with one's "own eyes and not through the eyes of > > other"--is to undertake a procvess of spiritual discovery with a keen sense > > of justice and openness.... > > > > The right to freedom of thought, conscience and belief now codified in > > international human rights instruments directly finds its roots in the > > scriptures of the world's religions. This fact should assure each of us that > > truth need not be feared, as it has many facets and shelters all of our > > diverse expressions of faith. If, after all, people of religious faith > > believe that the Creator is eternal and the center of all existence, then > > they must also believe that the unfettered and genuine search for truth will > > lead to truth.... Etc., etc., etc.... > > > > NON-BAHAI OBSERVERS: > > > > Please compare these dishonest claims with the 50+ megabyte record of bahai > > coercion and suppression of conscience available on my website below. > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > POSTED to talk.religion.bahai ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:15 PM Subject: Re: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-December 2001 Issue You dodged, not answered, my question. On the first page of the list of Millennium Forum participants it is clearly stated that "This information is intended strictly as a reference and should not be used in any other fashion without the written permission of the Millennium Forum." https://www.millenniumforum.org/html/MFParticipants.pdf As an accredited participant, I ask does the bic have WRITTEN PERMISSION from the Millennium Form? (That's a yes or no question.) My name and address NEVER appeared anywhere else other than the Millennium Forum list and I immediately began receiving unsolicited copies of One Country following the Forum in May of 2000. Your explanation is false. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ----- Dear Mr. Glaysher, We get our lists from a variety of sources. Your name may have been from any one of a number of conference lists, directories, or submissions from other organizations with whom we associate. Our list generally consists of prominent people and organizations active in matters of global concern. Perhaps your name made it to one of these lists and was entered to our complimentary mailing list. The publication is sent at no charge to the recipients and many of our readers are interested in the articles about NGO conferences, development activities and in the book reviews and other items that relate to their field, as well as in learning more about the philosophy and activities of members of the Baha'i Faith. If they are not interested, they ask to be removed from the list, as you did, and their record is deleted from our files. I'm sorry this seems to have caused you such distress. As I said, your name has been removed from our mailing list. Sincerely, Veronica Shoffstall, Editorial Assistant ONE COUNTRY, the newsletter of the Bahá'í International Community 866 United Nations Plaza, Suite 120 New York, NY 10017 USA tel: 212-803-2543 fax: 212-803-2566 email: rshoffst@bic.org web: https://www.onecountry.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens." Bahá'u'lláh From : "One Country" <1country@bic.org> To : "Frederick Glaysher" Subject : RE: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-Decem Date : Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:46:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [216.236.137.99] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBE901A82006B40043164D8EC896320BE1; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:30:18 -0700 Received: from ONECOUNTRY ([192.168.0.16])by mail.bic.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA06891;Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:39:10 -0400 From 1country@bic.org Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:30:41 -0700 Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal > -----Original Message----- > From: FG [mailto:FG@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:33 AM > To: 1country@bic.org > Subject: RE: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the > Darkness" - October-Decem > > > On the first page of the list of participants it is > clearly stated that "This information is intended strictly as a reference > and should not be used in any other fashion without the > written permission of the Millennium Forum." > https://www.millenniumforum.org/html/MFParticipants.pdf > > As an accredited participant, I ask does the bic have > such explicit written permission from the Millennium Form? > > cc: MFDiscuss@yahoogroups.com and inquiries@un.org > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:29 AM Subject: It's a FACT - More Hits than USA bahais - 28,000+ The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience It's a FACT - More Hits than USA bahais - 28,000+ -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 7:52 AM Subject: Re: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-December 2001 Issue Please note how convenient it is that "Posting to this group has been temporarily disabled" at this time.... Wonder who made or influenced that decision.... ---- We are unable to deliver the message from to . Posting to this group has been temporarily disabled. For further assistance, please email support@yahoogroups.com or visit https://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From : "" To : MFDiscuss@yahoogroups.com Subject : One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - OctDec01Issue Date : Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:20:30 +0000 You dodged, not answered, my question. On the first page of the list of Millennium Forum participants it is clearly stated that "This information is intended strictly as a reference and should not be used in any other fashion without the written permission of the Millennium Forum." https://www.millenniumforum.org/html/MFParticipants.pdf As an accredited participant, I ask does the bic have WRITTEN PERMISSION from the Millennium Forum? (That's a yes or no question.) My name and address NEVER appeared anywhere else other than the Millennium Forum list and I immediately began receiving unsolicited copies of One Country following the Forum in May of 2000. Your explanation is false. ----- Dear Mr. Glaysher, We get our lists from a variety of sources. Your name may have been from any one of a number of conference lists, directories, or submissions from other organizations with whom we associate. Our list generally consists of prominent people and organizations active in matters of global concern. Perhaps your name made it to one of these lists and was entered to our complimentary mailing list. The publication is sent at no charge to the recipients and many of our readers are interested in the articles about NGO conferences, development activities and in the book reviews and other items that relate to their field, as well as in learning more about the philosophy and activities of members of the Baha'i Faith. If they are not interested, they ask to be removed from the list, as you did, and their record is deleted from our files. I'm sorry this seems to have caused you such distress. As I said, your name has been removed from our mailing list. Sincerely, Veronica Shoffstall, Editorial Assistant ONE COUNTRY, the newsletter of the Bahá'í International Community 866 United Nations Plaza, Suite 120 New York, NY 10017 USA tel: 212-803-2543 fax: 212-803-2566 email: rshoffst@bic.org web: https://www.onecountry.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens." Bahá'u'lláh From : "One Country" <1country@bic.org> To : "Frederick Glaysher" Subject : RE: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-Decem Date : Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:46:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [216.236.137.99] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBE901A82006B40043164D8EC896320BE1; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:30:18 -0700 Received: from ONECOUNTRY ([192.168.0.16])by mail.bic.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA06891;Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:39:10 -0400 From 1country@bic.org Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:30:41 -0700 Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal >-----Original Message----- >From: FG [mailto:FG@hotmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:33 AM >To: 1country@bic.org >Subject: RE: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the >Darkness" - October-Decem > > >On the first page of the list of participants it is >clearly stated that "This information is intended strictly as a reference >and should not be used in any other fashion without the >written permission of the Millennium Forum." >https://www.millenniumforum.org/html/MFParticipants.pdf > >As an accredited participant, I ask does the bic have >such explicit written permission from the Millennium Form? > >cc: MFDiscuss@yahoogroups.com and inquiries@un.org > >-- >Frederick Glaysher >The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience >https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: Re: One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-December 2001 Issue We are unable to deliver the message from to . Posting to this group has been temporarily disabled. For further assistance, please email support@yahoogroups.com or visit https://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From : "" To : MFDiscuss@yahoogroups.com Subject : One Country - "Belief and Tolerance: Lights Amidst the Darkness" - October-Decem Date : Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:52:32 +0000 Please note how convenient it is that "Posting to this group has been temporarily disabled" at this time.... Wonder who made or influenced that decision.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:13 AM Subject: Re: Baha'i Faith in a Nutshell -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:_U5y8.311$q9.54824@news1.telusplanet.net... Baha'i Faith in a Nutshell: https://www.telusplanet.net/public/mesbah/oneness/bahai_faith_nutshell.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:29 AM Subject: Re: It's a FACT - More Hits than USA bahais - 28,000+ The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Karen Bacquet: Disillusionment with Baha'i Life The Baha'i Faith in the U.S. claims to have 140,000 members, but it is axiomatic among Baha'is that half of these on the rolls are permanently inactive and have lost contact with the community. The inactivity rate may well be higher; one independent poll estimated the number of Americans identifying themselves as Baha'is to be only 28,000.[14] [14] Adherents.com Index.(n.d.). Retrieved January 9, 2002 from https://www.adherents.com/Na_41.html This cites Kosmin, B. & S. Lachman.(1993). One nation under God: Religion in contemporary American society. New York: Harmony Books, pp. 15-17. Kosmin and Lachman say on the issue of the Baha'i undercount: "... possible that our methodology [over 100,000 phone surveys] tended to undercount groups that live in communal settings... [This] was suggested to us by the Baha'i..., [which] claims 110,000 adherents nationwide... we found only 28,000 " Baha'is do not live "in communal settings", however, the phone survey may have failed to take into account Baha'i family members living in the same household. One reason for the highly inflated membership statistics is that members of the Baha'i Faith are only removed from the rolls if they write a letter of resignation to the National Spiritual Assembly; most former converts drift away without doing so. As Adherents.com reported "As is typical with a religious group made up primarily of converts, Baha'is who drift from active participation in the movement are less likely to retain nominal identification with the religion -- because it was not the religion of their parents or the majority religion of the surrounding culture." Excerpt from Karen Bacquet in American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal, Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community": https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:aa90e4$8vk1v$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > It's a FACT - More Hits than USA bahais - 28,000+ > > -- > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 5:21 PM Subject: WHY I CANNOT "DECLARE" WHY I CANNOT "DECLARE" (Identity withheld upon request) April 26, 2002 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- WHY I CANNOT "DECLARE" After several years of deep consideration and study of the Bahá'Ă­ Faith, I have chosen not to "declare." While I hope that some may reflect upon my own views, I hope even further that people will continue their own independent investigations of truth. This should in no way be regarded as condemnation of the Faith, a beautiful religion. Rather, my refusal to "declare" should be regarded as protest toward the treatment of intellectual and liberal Bahá'Ă­s who have been shunned by the Bahá'Ă­ community. In other religious movements, so-called "dissenters" have been the only obstacle for fundamentalists who may now be blamed for the post-September 11 world we live in. The Bahá'Ă­ Faith is no exception and voices of differing opinions should be valued, even if not agreed with. Shame on those who have ostracized these brave souls. You who forgotten `Abdu'l-Bahá, as He declared: "The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions." My mom was born and raised a Bahá'Ă­ in Iran, a country not known for liberalism. Despite this, she maintained a progressive attitude in regard to my religious upbringing. My dad is an American who had been raised Baptist. The fundamentalism entrenched in that denomination initiated his negative outlook upon organized religion. The Bahá'Ă­ Faith became an exception: He â?ťdeclaredâ?ť shortly after meeting my mom. Like many liberal Americans, he was enticed to become a Bahá'Ă­ by way of the Faithâ?Ts progressive doctrine. Both of my parents were the nonconformists from their respective families, both being far more liberal than any of their relatives. However, it is fair to say that my mom was more conservative than my dad, which can be attributed to her having grown up in Iran. Nevertheless, she and my dad agreed on the role religion should play in my life. They at no time attempted to force the Bahá'Ă­ Faith upon me. My dad had come to resent his parents for having forced him to attend church as a child and this undoubtedly instigated his rejection of the Baptist religion. Learning from my grandparentsâ?T mistakes, my own parents encouraged a healthy tolerance toward religions outside the Bahá'Ă­ Faith. This tolerance was not limited to a "live and let live" approach. Rather, they supported my active interest in religious alternatives and at my behest allowed me to attend a Christian scripture class (which were offered in the public schools where I grew up). However, my indoctrination did not go unmonitored: The minute I revealed that my teacher had told her students that "All good people go to church," they pulled me out of the classes. From that point on, I had to go to the library during the hours every Wednesday when the class was being taught. I found myself among the exiled: a range of minority students, whose religious practices varied as much as their skin colors. It was there that my curiosity flourished and I found myself much more happy to spend Wednesday afternoons in the library amongst the adherents of "miscellaneous" religions rather than within the overwhelmingly pale facade of the scripture class. This is not to say that I did not learn about my parentsâ?T religion. I attended my fair share of Bahá'Ă­ classes, Feasts, workshops, celebrations, etc. Although I often enjoyed interaction within the Bahá'Ă­ community, I was never as devoted as other Bahá'Ă­ youth. I recall loving Bahá'u'lláh, `Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi (the central figures of the Faith) and believing Their teachings would be instrumental toward the development of a new and better world. However, I believe my exposure to diversity and my parentsâ?T support of such contact immediately sheltered my heart and mind from any dogma that suggested Bahá'Ă­s are "chosen" or "more enlightened." Some Bahá'Ă­s may very well believe this, but in fairness so do many followers of any other religion. I do not suggest that this sentiment is shared in greater proportion within the Bahá'Ă­ community than it does within, say, among Christians. Rather, I am merely trying to account for my apparent restricted level of devotion toward the Faith, when contrasted with other Bahá'Ă­ youth. While Bahá'Ă­s pride themselves on great diversity within their worldwide community (ethnic, national and racial; not intellectual), there is no doubting that there is a consensus within the community that since they are followers of the most recent religion, they must also be more enlightened than people of other faiths. It is hard to go along with this when you see religions as equal (which Bahá'Ă­s claim to do). Yet such sentiments do appear to belie the tolerance the community publicly advocates (at least in my experience both in youth and in adulthood). My mom passed away in the early 1990s. Her death prompted a feud between my momâ?Ts side of the family (who hail from Iran) and my dad, regarding my momâ?Ts estate. The bitterness soon led to my dadâ?Ts inactive status as a Bahá'Ă­. This had nothing to do with the Faith, but rather with the pain my dad would experience from being around Persians. Even in the U.S., it is impossible to separate the Bahá'Ă­ community from its Persian adherents. It is noteworthy that my dad remains a Bahá'Ă­, but is simply not active within the community. This did not remove the Faith entirely from my life, although it did limit its sphere of influence. In light of the feud and seeing the anguish my newly widowed father had to endure, I decided not to associate with my momâ?Ts family. However, my dad convinced me that the bitterness was not my concern and that being with my momâ?Ts relatives was necessary for both them and me. Soon after I had resumed relationships with them, my aunt tried to convince my dad to force me to attend Bahá'Ă­ classes here in the U.S. Although he did discuss with me the possibility of my attendance, he obviously did not fall back on his own parentsâ?T tactics. Every so often I attended classes, but this was because my aunt would offer to baby-sit me over weekends and then took me involuntarily. She was not kidnapping me, though I believe it may sound like it from what I am writing. In fairness, she was simply doing what she believed to be right. But once I was old enough (and brave enough) to simply refuse to go, my involvement with the community was put on hiatus. Undoubtedly, my momâ?Ts family blames my dadâ?Ts refusal to force religious adherence on me as the slippery slope to my refusal to â?odeclare.â?ť A relative once told me that I â?oneed the Faith so I donâ?Tt do things like drugs.â?ť Well, I am happy to report that I managed to forestall the use of drugs through knowledge and self-respect, not faith. While my family would like to see me adhere to the Faith with their level of devotion, I simply cannot blindly believe in anything without questioning it. A Bahá'Ă­ true to the Teachings rejects superstition and independently investigates truth. In a copy of the Bible my dad passed down to me at age five, he inscribed "Leave no stone unturned in your search for truth." In this respect, my dadâ?Ts unwillingness to force his son into becoming a Bahá'Ă­ gave me a sense of objectivity with which I may view the Faith. If I do decide to "declare" eventually, it will be because of immense respect for the religion rather than because it is the faith of my family. Religion played very little importance in my life throughout high school. After studying the 1925 Scopes "Monkey" Trial, I harbored a strong disregard toward religion for a couple of years. Then, my senior year of high school, I represented my school at a summer camp established to promote liberal ideals such as racial and sexual equality, world peace, religious tolerance, etc. It was a very Bahá'Ă­ concept and there was in fact a Bahá'Ă­ counselor was present. My favorite event at the camp was a panel of religious representatives: a Hindu, Buddhist, Jew, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim and Bahá'Ă­. To hear these men and women talk of their respective religions and to see the consistency of their doctrines inspired me greatly. I realized that the voice of fundamentalists was not the only religious tone to be heard and I returned to the Bahá'Ă­ Faith on my own accord. I did not "declare" right away. I did not believe it was appropriate to do so without a better grasp on the precepts of the Faith. That is what I have been doing these last few years: studying the Faith with the intent to "declare." I was able to study at my leisure because I never saw the urgency of "declaring." After all, the Faith is a religion, not a country club. Recently, I found myself ready to finally make my status as a Bahá'Ă­ "official." However, I soon encountered a red flag. My girlfriend and I moved in together. Such a move would be condemned by any fundamentalist (Bahá'Ă­s included) and it is not necessarily a move I would recommend for all young couples who are dating. However, I assure the reader that our circumstances were (and continue to be) unique and that this was our only option. Interestingly enough, I wanted to initially get married but my momâ?Ts family disapproved and insisted that if we were going to stay together that living together was preferable to a prudent marriage (and I wholeheartedly agree). However, after about a year and a half (seeing that the two of us were staying together despite their objections), they insisted that we get married. In part, their insistence was based upon the fact that I showed an interest in finally "declaring." Here enters the red flag: My aunt told me that were I to "declare" while living with my girlfriend out of wedlock, the community could "take action." She was deliberately vague on what this meant, so I was forced to enquire. Years of research on the abundance of positive aspects of the Faith had yielded an optimistic outlook on my part. However, now I was through the looking glass and my research was redirected to any negative aspects. It is important to note that I did not initially look into biased material (a good researcher must remain objective). I went straight to the Bahá'Ă­ Writings and there are few aspects within the Writings that could disenchant a liberal. Rather, it is the current community and Bahá'Ă­ hierarchy that disgraces Bahá'u'lláh and the liberal tenets of the Faith. Having laid out my experience, I will now list the qualms I have about the Faith and it is my hope that the Universal House of Justice will someday explain their justification of such concerns rather than simply ignore them as they have been doing. I beg individual Bahá'Ă­s to consider whether or not this is the purpose of religion? If you believe it is not, then please let your voice be heard. They cannot silence us all. 1. Bahá'Ă­ Hierarchy. a. Infallibility of the Universal House of Justice (UHJ). It is difficult to accept that any elected body compromised of human beings is infallible. To believe otherwise is superstitious. Most Bahá'Ă­ intellectuals believe that what was meant by the word "infallible" was that the UHJ could not render a decision under impure (or fallible) motives, yet this opinion is almost never voiced due to fear instilled by the threat of being deemed a Covenant Breaker by Bahá'Ă­ authorities. b. Power. Bahá'u'lláh did not vest authoritarian power to the UHJ. However, the notion of Covenant Breaking (i.e. fear among adherents) has allowed the assembly to exceed their authority. Only `Abdu'l-Bahá and The Guardian were authorized interpreters of the Writings, which suggests that "law" beyond The Guardian would be advisory in nature only, not religious. Members of the community are often inspired to spy on one another. If any dissent, or practices contrary to the Teachings, is perceived, intimidation could (and has been) used. If it is successful, the independent thinker (or "heretic") is silenced, less they be declared a Covenant Breaker or sanctioned. If it is not successful, they are no longer considered a Bahá'Ă­, either by way of expulsion or via pressure to resign: Who wants to remain in a community where everyone considers you "spiritually polluted?" If free will is relevant at all, then the severity of a "sin" is between God and the individual (such as my living out of wedlock). The power to revoke oneâ?Ts religious identity is horrifying and a specific reason for such action is often not provided. Most often, Bahá'Ă­ authoritiesbelieve a person should automatically know what questionable action they have undertaken. This is simply because they do not wish to go on record and be thought of as intolerant, tarnishing the forbearing image they have maintained. Harsh interrogations of suspected dissenters have been reported. Did Bahá'u'lláh authorize the establishment of Auxiliary Board Members (basically the UHJâ?Ts answer to thought police)? d. Election. Bahá'Ă­s believe their election process to be a superior form of election since campaigning and political backbiting is prohibited in order to end partisanship and promote unity. However, there are other ways to avoid the corruption that accompanies politics and this particular method leaves the Bahá'Ă­ community uninformed in regard to where the "candidates" stand on any given issue. This allows members to get in on name recognition alone and who controls whether or not an individual is recognized within the community? A strict rule of censorship is imposed by the UHJ, whereby they must approve all pre-published material regarding the Faith. This allows the body to control exactly who gains name recognition and of course allows the incumbents to stay in office, retaining a conservative congress. 3. Injunction against entering politics. Although many Bahá'Ă­s believe this to refer only to partisan politics (i.e. the two party and divisive system here in the U.S.), it really is much broader. The UHJ issued a letter to a Bahá'Ă­ woman informing her that she should no longer be a member of Amnesty International as it is a form of political activism. Well, activism does not necessarily entail partisanship, as Amnesty International is not a political party. Political involvement should be contingent upon a personâ?Ts own conscience and (I believe) is often essential to the betterment of society. Perhaps my fourth (and most important) concern provides a clue as to why the UHJ enforces this policy. 4. Rejection of separation of religion and state. Bahá'Ă­s view their hierarchy as an embryonic governmental system that will not only have religious authority, but will eventually have world governing authority (i.e. a political force to be reckoned with). Only enrolled Bahá'Ă­s may vote for their representatives, so this suggests that the future government is contingent upon the participation of only enrolled Bahá'Ă­s (i.e. no religious minorities or Bahá'Ă­s who have been revoked of voting privileges). Bahá'Ă­s regard this as the blending of the best aspects of both democracy and theocracy but no political scientist in their right mind would regard this as nothing short of a theocracy. As this is my most vital concern, I will elaborate. To emphasize the importance of separation of religion and state is not to stand narrowly behind American ideology, less I be accused of nationalism. Rather, this sentiment is shared by many across the globe and was supported by Bahá'u'lláh Himself. It has been supported by all the Manifestations, as Christian fundamentalists in my own country are willing to ignore. Does â?oRender onto Caesar what is Caesarâ?Ts; render onto God what is Godâ?Tsâ?ť ring any bells? As for the Bahá'Ă­ Faith, I strongly advocate the establishment of the World Commonwealth, but only as a secular body. The separation of religion and state is there to protect both religion and state from one another and critical to the survival of any civilization. Are we to believe that simply because the Bahá'Ă­ Faith is the most recent (and therefore most "enlightened") religion that it is somehow impervious to the dangers of fundamentalism? Bahá'Ă­s should not be so careless as to adopt a system that has plunged modern-day Iran into the abyss of theocratic intolerance and ignorance. Just as religions are universal in fostering ideals of compassion, they remain consistent in regard to their susceptibility toward the dogmatic objectives of conservative adherents (or, fundamentalists). If the Bahá'Ă­ Faith is to be unique and not fall down this dark and evil path, should not such objectives be condemned as obsolete, harmful and un-Bahá'Ă­? Let us hope so, or it will be The Most Great Peace that is obsolete, Bahá'Ă­s who are harmful and only the enlightened shall be regarded as un-Bahá'Ă­. The Universal House of Justice must reconsider its actions and ask itself whether or not it intends to act as the zealots who now govern Iran and have persecuted so many Bahá'Ă­s? Are they a spiritual body, in existence to offer advice or authoritarians with the unquestionable power to exert abuse? I feel as if I have been letdown and perhaps other good people have been let down who would have otherwise joined the Cause. Did Christ require a membership card for Salvation? I am a Bahá'Ă­ and do not require a slip of paper to believe in Bahá'u'lláh, nor would He have wanted it that way. Why would the Bahá'Ă­ community knowingly turn so many away from the Faith? Please reconsider what the impending authority of the Universal House of Justice is doing to our beloved religion and remember His words: "The light of men is justice. Quench it not with the contrary winds of tyranny." I thank the reader. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/WhyIcannotD.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 5:23 PM Subject: Re: WHY I CANNOT "DECLARE" Read it on my website without the lines wrapped: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/WhyIcannotD.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:44 AM Subject: OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented..... OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1.OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented Invented OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." Further details in "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:13 AM Subject: Re: Baha'i Faith: Basic Facts The FACTS bahai fundamentalists won't tell you-- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:71jz8.588$LC2.27627@news0.telusplanet.net... Principles of the Bahá'í Faith There is only one God The foundation of all Divine religions is the same The oneness of the world of humanity All men have been created to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization The peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. He Who is your Lord, the All-Merciful, cherisheth in His heart the desire of beholding the entire human race as one soul and one body The purpose of religion is to promote love and unity The object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquility of its peoples Religion is a mighty stronghold, but that it must engender love and be the cause of fellowship, not malevolence and hate Religion must be in conformity with science and reason Religion should be the cause of love and unity This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future Prejudices strike at the very root of human life Independent investigation of truth should replace blind imitations Man's true freedom is in his submission to the Laws of God The family is the foundation of human society Marriage is a means for spiritual development of both partners The family, being a human unit, must be educated according to the rules of sanctity. All the virtues must be taught the family. Every child must receive a sound education Mother is the first teacher and that it is she who establishes the character and conduct of the child Men and women should enjoy equal sharing in all rights and privileges Women and men have been and will always be equal in the sight of God Living a moral life has a direct influence on our spiritual happiness and development Consultation is a dynamic process for finding truth and for solving conflicts and problems Extremes of wealth and poverty must be abolished Struggle for existence is the fountain-head of all calamities and is the supreme affliction A universal language should be taught along with the mother tongue throughout the world A world government must safeguard a permanent and universal peace All mankind is created as noble and spiritual beings. The soul continues its everlasting life after death Patriotic prejudice is due to absolute ignorance, for the surface of the earth is one native land The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens Struggle for existence must be replaced with cooperation and voluntary sharing Man's freedom from the captivity of the world of nature Preservation of human honor The religion of God is for love and unity, make it not the cause of enmity and dissension Material civilization needs to be combined with Divine civilization in order to bring about the felicity of mankind Establishment of a Universal Religion Establishment of a Supreme Tribunal Economic problem cannot be solved without spiritual principles Establishment of a world commonwealth Establishment of a world legislature Establishment of a world executive, backed by an international Force Establishment of a world metropolis as nerve center of future world civilization A world script A world literature A uniform and universal system of currency, of weights and measures A world federal system in which Force is made the servant of Justice, based on universal recognition of one God Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead Bahá'ís follow the moral code of the Ten Commandments --and more. Bahá'u'lláh forbids: Killing Stealing Lying Adultery and promiscuity Gambling Alcoholic drinks Drug abuse Gossip and backbiting Bahá'ís strive to uphold a high moral standard. Bahá'u'lláh stressed the importance of: Honesty Trustworthiness Chastity Service to others Purity of motive Generosity Deeds over words Unity Work as a form of worship -- more... https://oneness-of-mankind.web-page.net > Basic Facts ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:14 AM Subject: Re: When was Jesus annointed? Since Messiah or Christ means annointed? The FACTS bahai fundamentalists won't tell you-- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:aGkz8.238$Xt3.27744@news1.telusplanet.net... In his writings, Baha'u'llah 'unseals' the truth and the 'hidden meanings of those subjects which have long troubled and confused mankind, such as: The Day of Judgement Resurrection Baptism The Eucharist The Trinity Reincarnation The Creation of the World Proofs of the Existence of God Life After Death The Immortality of the School The Story of Adam and Eve Good and Evil The Son of God The Father Heaven and Hell The Stars Falling from Heaven The Darkening of the Sun and the Moon The Day of God The City of God The Seal of the Prophets The Return These and many other subjects are revealed in their true meaning by Baha'u'llah, whose fresh and clear explanations harmonize with science and education and broaden the outlook of humanity. These have been explained in detail in the Book The Wine of Astonishment. Enoch, in speaking of the Messiah of the time of the end, promised: 'This is the Son of man...who will reveal all the treasure of that which is concealed.' [Enoch 46:3.] The second of these two books I have called Fire in the Sky. It tells the story of Baha'u'llah's letters to the kings and rulers of the world. (Published as The Prisoner and the Kings.) Baha'u'llah addressed them saying: 'O Kings of the earth! We see you increasing every year your expenditures and laying the burden thereof on your subjects. This, verily, is wholly and grossly unjust...lay not excessive burdens on your peoples. Do not rob them to rear palaces for yourselves; nay rather, choose for them that which ye choose for yourselves...Your people are your treasures. Beware lest your rule violate the commandments of God, and ye deliver your wards to the hands of the robber. By them ye rule, by their means ye subsist, by their aid ye conquer. Yet, how disdainfully ye look upon them! How strange, how very strange!' [The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi, p. 26.] In another place Baha'u'llah wrote to the kings and rulers: 'O kings of the earth...Compose your differences, and reduce your armaments, that the burden of your expenditures may be lightened, and that your minds and hearts may be tranquillised. Heal the dissensions that divide you...and ye be the emblems of justice amongst them (mankind).' [The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi, pp. 21-22.] And again: 'If ye stay not the hand of the oppressor, if ye fail to safeguard the rights of the downtrodden, what right have ye then to vaunt yourselves among men?' [The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi, p. 22.] Baha'u'llah informed the monarchs of the world by whose authority he spoke, saying: 'I am the One Whom the tongue of Isaiah hath extolled, the One with Whose name both the Torah (of Moses) and the Evangel (of Christ) were adorned...' [The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi, p. 34.] Baha'u'llah addressed letters to: Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria Napoleon III of France Kaiser William I of Germany Czar Nicolaevitch Alexander II of Russia The Sultan 'Abdu'l-Aziz of Turkey Nasiri'd-Din Shah of Persia Queen Victoria of Britain The Presidents and Rulers of the Republics of the West The Religious Leaders of the Christians, Jews, Muslims and Zoroastrians The followers of Christ, Moses, and Mohammed The peoples of the world Napoleon III cast Baha'u'llah's letter aside scornfully, saying, 'If this man is of God, I am two Gods!' Shortly after, Napoleon fell from power as prophesied by Baha'u'llah, and ended his days in exile, after suffering a humiliating imprisonment. Only one of these sovereigns responded, even in the slightest measure. It was Queen Victoria in Great Britain. This dynasty is the only one which still remains today of those once-mighty monarchies. Baha'u'llah foretold that Queen Victoria would have a long and successful reign, although at the time her health was precarious and she was not in favour because of her German consort. Of far more arresting interest is the fact that still another Sovereign, a grand-daughter of Queen Victoria, became a follower of Baha'u'llah. I found these words of Queen Marie of Rumania concerning Baha'u'llah and his Faith, quoted in the Toronto Daily Star, May 14th, 1926: 'It (Baha'u'llah's Faith) is Christ's message taken up anew...No man could fail to be better because of this Book. I commend it to you all.' She was quoted in the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin, September 27th, 1926 as follows: 'Those who read their Bible with "peeled eyes" will find in almost every line some revelation.' She also wrote in a personal letter: 'These Books (the writings of Baha'u'llah's Faith), have strengthened me beyond belief...The Baha'i teaching brings peace and understanding.' [Appreciations of the Baha'i Faith, pp. 12-13.] (William Sears, Thief in the Night) -- more... https://oneness-of-mankind.web-page.net ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:16 AM Subject: Re: Baha'u'llah against injustice, tyranny & corruption https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Justice.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Tyranny.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:LP0z8.9677$q9.279965@news1.telusplanet.net... ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:19 AM Subject: Re: COVENANT AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF CIVIL SOCIETY The FACTS bahai fundamentalists won't tell you-- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:ujjy8.2351$%9.167743@news0.telusplanet.net... Wendy M. Heller explores the religious origins of the organizing principles of civil society, tracks their secularization in the modern era, and examines the prospect of an inclusive global moral order based on the enduring concept of covenant. COVENANT AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF CIVIL SOCIETY Over a century ago, Bahá'u'lláh, Founder of the Bahá'í Faith, wrote of the impending disintegration and collapse of the established order of civilization: "Soon will the present-day order be rolled up," He proclaimed, "and a new one spread out in its stead."1 In the interval, experience has borne out the prescience of revelation; this century has seen Bahá'u'lláh's prophetic terms, of disequilibrium and chaos, of the shaking of foundations, become so much a part of daily life that, because of the pervasiveness of such disintegration, some have been led to mistake an abnormal state for a normal one, and to conclude that there simply are no foundations for any human endeavor, and that, in consequence, strife and conflict are the inevitable condition of existence. Yet an increasing number of scholars are now willing to shed the "obtuse secularism"2 that, as a feature of contemporary frameworks of thought, has systematically excluded serious appraisal of the central importance religion and spiritual reality in human life and society. Faced the evidence of the bankruptcy of modernity, whose promises prosperity through materialism and ideology have proven hollow, thinkers and scholars have begun to turn the light of critical scrutiny upon the far-reaching effects that the displacement of religion secular ideology has had on civilization in the modem era. That same secularism which was once heralded as the emancipation civilization is now increasingly identified as the root cause of disintegration. This conclusion had been anticipated in the Bahá'í writings which affirm that social and moral deterioration is directly related to the decline of religion as a social force. "Religion Bahá'u'lláh wrote, "is verily the chief instrument for the establishment of order in the world and of tranquillity amongst peoples. The weakening of the pillars of religion hath strengthened the foolish and emboldened them and made them more arrogant. Verily I say: The greater the decline of religion, the more grievous the waywardness of the ungodly. This cannot but lead in the end to chaos and confusion."3 Material civilization cut loose from the moderating influence of spiritual values, He warned, "will prove as prolific a source of evil as it had been goodness when kept within the restraints of moderation...The day is approaching when its flame will devour the cities..."4 Affirming the central role of religion in the civilizing of hum character, 'Abdu'l-Bahá explained: Universal benefits derive from the grace of the Divine religions, for they lead their true followers to sincerity of intent, to high purpose, to purity and spotless honor, to surpassing kindness and compassion, to the keeping of their covenants when they have covenanted, to concern for the rights of others, to liberality, to justice in every aspect of life, to humanity and philanthropy, to valor and to unflagging efforts in the service of mankind. It is religion, to sum up, which produces all human virtues, and it is these virtues which are the bright candles of civilization.5 In the 1930s Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith, singled out as an agent of social decline the "prevailing spirit of modernism with its emphasis on a purely materialistic philosophy which, as it diffuses itself, tends to divorce religion from man's daily life," resulting in the erosion of "conceptions of duty, of solidarity, of reciprocity and loyalty" as the center of gravity shifts to the individual self. Symptoms of such a society that has lost its spiritual bearings, he wrote, include religious intolerance, racism and xenophobia, terrorism, crime, alcoholism, the weakening of the family, and the breakdown of political and economic structures, to name but a few.6 In the Bahá'í view, however, the current experience of disorder and turmoil is only one aspect of a two-fold process that is ultimately therapeutic and evolutionary, rather than solely destructive. It clears the way for a recovery and renewal of the true and enduring foundations upon which a global moral order can be constructed. Though grounded in eternal verities, this process of spiritual and social evolution is forward looking and cannot be confused with a return to a vanished and unrecoverable past. Sociologist Robert Bellah has remarked that the characteristic modem attempt to substitute "a technical-rational model of politics for a religious-moral one does not seem to me to be an advantage. Indeed it only exacerbates tendencies that I think are at the heart of our problems. If our problems are, as I believe them to be, centrally moral and even religious, then the effort to sidestep them with purely technical organizational considerations can only worsen them." Although the contemporary combination of the morality of self-interest, capitalism, and technological rationality has departed from the earlier religious and moral world view, he argues, it does not follow that the only possible alternative to modem secularism is the "literal revival of that earlier conception." Indeed, he suggests, "only a new imaginative, religious, moral, and social context for science and technology will make it possible to weather the storms that seem to be closing in on us in the late 20th century."7 more... https://www.telusplanet.net/public/mesbah/oneness/civil_society.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:27 AM Subject: bahai - Three Messages to bahai Taliban - +++++++++ bahai - Three Messages to bahai Taliban - bahai - Three Messages to bahai Taliban - March 31, 1997 The Universal House of Justice of the Bahais of the World Haifa, Israel Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice: After careful reflection and prayer for the past few days, I've decided that open public discussion and knowledge are more important than my own status as a Bahai. I have been a Bahai for more than twenty years, since 1976. I became a Bahai by reading almost every single Bahai book published at the time. Given my background as a Catholic and poet, I was deeply moved by the beauty and profundity of the Bahai Writings. As a young person, I spent two months travel teaching throughout Michigan with several other youthful, innocent Bahais. Like many, I have sacrificed financially to contribute to the Bahai Faith. I pioneered for a year and a half in Japan, for two years on an American Indian reservation, and have travel taught in China. The spiritual profundity of the Bahai vision, as reflected in the work of the African-American poet Robert Hayden, inspired me to study at the University of Michigan under him and to spend considerable time and labor editing his collected poems and prose for Liveright and the University of Michigan Press. I have published two essays in the Bahai magazine World Order and spent more time than I can remember at Bahai summer camps, workshops, and deepenings. Throughout all my varied Bahai experience, I have loved the Figures and Teachings of the Faith even as the conviction has grown that all information and discussion in the Bahai Faith is subtly manipulated, controlled, and distorted for the "good of the Faith." There seems to be a pervasive, rigid control of all thought, ideas, and information that calls into question the motives of the individuals in power in the Bahai Administration. As a published writer and former college and university instructor of rhetoric and literature for over ten years, I believe the whole process of "review" has become a complete farce and disgrace to the Bahai Faith and is suggestive of the worst censorship under the most repressive regimes, religious or secular, of historical experience. If one truly wishes to understand why many Bahais, both highly educated and others, leave the Bahai Faith or become "inactive" and withdraw into silence and uninvolvement with the religion, one need only to look objectively at what seems to be the oppressive and coercive methods of people in the Bahai Administration itself to find the answer. My experiencing of these same methods of censorship and distortion on soc.religion.bahai proved to be the last intolerable straw. My attempt to form an unmoderated newsgroup on the Internet that no one could manipulate and censor has a long experience of Bahai tyranny in the background. The resorting to deceit and back-channel communication by the moderators of soc.religion.bahai and others naively believing they're working for the benefit of the Bahai Faith by campaigning for 691 unethical NO votes on talk.religion.bahai further proves the pervasive acceptance of disreputable tactics by Bahais in their attempt to maintain a stranglehold over all thought and discussion. Recently, more than ever, I've often recalled the words to me in private several times of Robert Hayden, the only Bahai to be appointed Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress: "Why I continue to have anything to do with the Bahai Faith, I do not know, I do not know." I myself no longer know. I suppose I hope that the oppressive, coercive methods that have come to be accepted and justified in the Bahai Administration, demonstrated for instance in the crushing of the magazine Dialogue, the incidents surrounding the Bahai Encyclopedia, the listserv Talisman I, and the continuingly crude, unreadable propoganda vehicle of the American Bahai, might yet be put aside in favor of the beautiful vision of Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha for freedom of religious conscience and belief and a humane, tolerant universalism. I fear that all too often the religious totalitarianism of Baha'u'llah's fanatical homeland has seeped into every nook and cranny of His religion, smothering out the free light of the human soul and hamstringing His Administration. It was with the bitterest of feelings that I observed some time ago the Bahai exhibition, a deceitful propaganda event really, on freedom of religious conscience and belief sponsored by the National Spiritual Assembly in the rotunda of the Capitol in Washington, D.C., so far in reality from the truth was it, so misled, trusting, and uninformed were the Congressmen of my country.... If censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith, I would like to know what passages of the Bahai Writings support it and what are the "rules," if you will, of Bahai censorship. It seems to me that censorship pervades the Bahai Faith so thoroughly that some Bahais regularly use it as a method of intimidation and silencing of anyone with an unconventional opinion by accusing the individual of being a covenant breaker. This tactic was used against me by at least three Bahais during the discussion period for talk.religion.bahai and tacitly condoned by the moderators and others. I include, at the end, a threatening, coercive email message I received on March 27, 1997, from Mr. Hoda Mahmoudi, Auxiliary Board Member for Michigan, at a crucial juncture of the discussion and voting for talk.religion.bahai and would like an explanation of his motives. I, and perhaps the rest of the world, would greatly appreciate evidence that there are not now nine ayatollahs residing in Israel on Mt Carmel. Respectfully, Frederick Glaysher ------------- bahai- Two Messages to bahai Taliban --------------------------------------------------------------- This file contains two messages: "to uhj 12-10-99," "to uhj 7-24-1998": From: Patrick Henry Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:33 AM Given the uhj's oppressive tactics and violation of the human rights of Linda and John Walbridge, Stephen Scholl, other editors of the Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Juan Cole, Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff who resigned, and so on, and so on, and so on.... All the victims documented on my website.... I hesitate to put the uhj above any reprehensible act.... including conspiracy to murder Dr. Daniel Jordan. I have been a member of the Bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my website. I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. Anything I have ever said is a matter of the sanctity of my individual God-given conscience that both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha claimed would never be violated in their religion. I shall "cc" this message to the uhj so that they hear from me directly on the matter. I would consider it an honor to be one of its official victims; indeed, the highest spiritual achievement of my Bahai life, defending Baha'u'llah'sTeachings from the fanaticism that has overwhelmed and hamstrung his Revelation. -- Frederick Glaysher.... "Give me liberty or give me death!" The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (Confirmation of receipt by the uhj of the message above.)From: Incoming Electronic Communication Operations Subject: Your Message Has Been Received... Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 5:36 AM Dear Friend, This is an automated acknowledgement. Your message regarding: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed has been received at the Baha'i World Centre. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Henry patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com To: UHJ ; Letters to Editor ; bahai-faith @ makelist.com Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998 Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM July 24,1998 Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice: As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community." The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media, always courting the President and other members of the government, has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997, available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals, Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within the Bahai community and administration. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more than ayear and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat twice now, along with thecollusion of other Bahais, the creation of an unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under Bahai-Discuss Archives. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/BCCAmenu.htm Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding talk.religion.bahai. The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai administration and perhaps the institutions themselves. I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if you will, of Bahai censorship? -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Further details on Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Mahmoudi.htm David Langness on Hoda Mahmoudi https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Langness.htm Paul Dodenhoff on Mahmoudi https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb95.htm -------- >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:45:46 -0500 >To: FG@hotmail.com >From: Hoda Mahmoudi >Dear Mr. Glaysher: > >I have been reading your e-mail postings recently. I would like to speak >with you by phone about some of your throughts and opinions regarding >matters relevant to the Baha'i Faith. As an Auxiliary Board members for >Michigan, I am always interested in issues which relate to individual >spiritual responsibility and the Baha'i Faith's principle of unity. My >phone number is 616/789-0590. > >Hope to hear from you soon. > >Hoda > > > > > >Hoda Mahmoudi, Ph.D. >Associate Vice President for Academic Affairs >Olivet College >Olivet, MI 49076 >616/749-7614 --------------------------------------------------------------- This file contains two messages: "to uhj 12-10-99," "to uhj 7-24-1998": From: Patrick Henry Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:33 AM Given the uhj's oppressive tactics and violation of the human rights of Linda and John Walbridge, Stephen Scholl, other editors of the Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Juan Cole, Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff who resigned, and so on, and so on, and so on.... All the victims documented on my website.... I hesitate to put the uhj above any reprehensible act.... including conspiracy to murder Dr. Daniel Jordan. I have been a member of the Bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my website. I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. Anything I have ever said is a matter of the sanctity of my individual God-given conscience that both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha claimed would never be violated in their religion. I shall "cc" this message to the uhj so that they hear from me directly on the matter. I would consider it an honor to be one of its official victims; indeed, the highest spiritual achievement of my Bahai life, defending Baha'u'llah'sTeachings from the fanaticism that has overwhelmed and hamstrung his Revelation. -- Frederick Glaysher.... "Give me liberty or give me death!" The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (Confirmation of receipt by the uhj of the message above.)From: Incoming Electronic Communication Operations Subject: Your Message Has Been Received... Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 5:36 AM Dear Friend, This is an automated acknowledgement. Your message regarding: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed has been received at the Baha'i World Centre. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Henry patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com To: UHJ ; Letters to Editor ; bahai-faith @ makelist.com Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998 Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM July 24,1998 Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice: As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community." The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media, always courting the President and other members of the government, has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997, available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals, Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within the Bahai community and administration. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more than ayear and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat twice now, along with thecollusion of other Bahais, the creation of an unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under Bahai-Discuss Archives. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/BCCAmenu.htm Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding talk.religion.bahai. The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai administration and perhaps the institutions themselves. I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if you will, of Bahai censorship? -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:48 AM Subject: BeliefNet - Re: Some historical background on the "Tablet to Kohli" "Dermod Ryder" wrote in message news:aakphj$blik0$1@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de... > It appears that momentous events are taking place over on Beliefnet. > Not only is it the most outrageous place, yes even worse than Bahai > 'review' (wink! wink! nudge! nudge!), for censorship of posts, with > crowds of "moaning minnie" whinging fundies, even more excrutiatingly > nauseous than the worst ones here.... I believe you're quite right about BeliefNet. Beliefnet's "moderator," Cheryl Fuller, has proven herself in my opinion to be quite dishonest in her handling of matters and has clearly taken sides with the fundamentalists.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 10:31 AM Subject: Re: "fundamentalist Bah??" and other oxymorons Nima, I can't thank you enough for posting this one!!! Cf. Douglas Martin with Abdul-Baha: Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, originally published in 1891, 87 - 92. [To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendancy over other lands. Other civilized countries acquired not this preeminence, nor attained unto these high degrees of influence and power, till such time as they put away the strife of sects out of their midst, and dealt with all classes according to one standard. All are one people, one nation, one species, one kind. The common interest is complete equality; justice and equality amongst mankind are amongst the chief promoters of empire and the principal means to the extension of the skirt of conquest. From whatever section of earth's denizens signs of contentiousness appear, prompt punishment is required by a just government; while any person who girds up the loins of endeavor and carries off the ball of priority is deserving of royal favors and worthy of splendid gifts. Times are changed, and the need and fashion of the world are changed. Interference with creed and faith in every country causes manifest detriment, while justice and equal dealing towards all peoples on the face of the earth are the means whereby progress is effected. *** Where is this little island in the North Atlantic, and where the vast territory of the East Indies? Can such extension be obtained save by equal justice to all peoples and classes? At all events, by means of just laws, freedom of conscience, and uniform dealing and equity towards all nationalities and peoples, they have actually brought under their dominion nearly all of the inhabited quarter of the world, and by reason of these principles of freedom they have added day by day to the strength, power, and extent of their empire, while most of the peoples on the face of the earth celebrate the name of this state for its justice. As regards religious zeal and true piety, their touchstone and proof are firmness and steadfastness in noble qualities, virtues, and perfections, which are the greatest blessings of the human race; but not interference with the belief of this one or that one, demolition of edifices, and cutting off of the human race. In the middle ages, whereof the beginning was the time of the fall of the Roman Empire, and the end the capture of Constantinople at the hands of [the followers of] Islám, fierce intolerance and molestation of far and near arose in [all] the countries of Europe by reason of the paramount influence of religious leaders. The matter came to such a pass that the edifice of humanity seemed tottering to its fall, and the peace and comfort of chief and vassal, king and subject, became hidden behind the veil of annihilation. Night and day all parties were slaves to apprehension and disquietude: civilization was utterly destroyed: the control and order of countries was neglected: the principles and essentials of the happiness of the human race were in abeyance: the supports of kingly authority were shaken: but the influence and power of the heads of religion and of the monks were in all parts complete. But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction; and whereas the mightiest monarchy of Europe had been servile to and abased before the smallest government of Asia, now the great states of Asia are unable to oppose the small states of Europe. These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants. So in the world of existence two persons unanimous in all grades [of thought] and all beliefs cannot be found. `The ways unto God are as the number of the breaths of [His] creatures' is a mysterious truth, and `To every [people] We have appointed a [separate] rite' [50] is one of the subtleties of the Qur'án. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "Today we have closed our eyes to every righteous act and have sacrificed the abiding happiness of society to our own transitory profit. We regard fanaticism and zealotry as redounding to our credit and honor, and not content with this, we denounce one another and plot each other's ruin, and whenever we wish to put on a show of wisdom and learning, of virtue and godliness, we set about mocking and reviling this one and that. "The ideas of such a one," we say, "are wide of the mark, and so-and-so's behavior leaves much to be desired. The religious observances of Zayd are few and far between, and Amr is not firm in his faith."...With words such as these they assualt the minds of the helpless masses and disturb the hearts of the already bewildered poor, who know nothing of the true state of affairs and the real basis for such talk and remain completely unaware of the fact that a thousand selfish purposes are concealed behind the supposedly religious eloquence of certain individuals. They imagine that speakers of this type are motivated by virtuous zeal, when the truth is that such individuals keep up a great hue and cry because they see their own personal ruin in the welfare of the masses, and believe that if the people's eyes are opened their own light will go out. Abdul-Baha, The Secret of Divine Civilization, 56-57, 1990 edition. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects , but it remains always and forever one. Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife in your hearts." --Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, 53. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Truly, this is a great and revered nation. Here liberty has reached its highest degree. The intentions of its people are most praiseworthy. They are, indeed, worthy of being the first to build the Tabernacle of the Most Great Peace and proclaim the oneness of mankind. I will supplicate God for assistance [PUP p.36-37] You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying the perfect liberty, security and peace of this just government. There is no cause for sorrow or unhappiness anywhere; every means of happiness and enjoyment is about you, for in this human world there is no greater blessing than liberty. [PUP p.52] This is the century of new and universal nationhood. Sciences have advanced; industries have progressed; politics have been reformed; liberty has been proclaimed; justice is awakening. [PUP p.143] Praise be to God! The standard of liberty is held aloft in this land. You enjoy political liberty; you enjoy liberty of thought and speech, religious liberty, racial and personal liberty. Surely this is worthy of appreciation and thanksgiving.[PUP p.390] But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction [TN p.91] When meeting for consultation, each must use perfect liberty in stating his views and unveiling the proof of his demonstration. [BWF p.406] The third candle is unity in freedom which will surely come to pass. [SWA p.32] The honoured members must with all freedom express their own thoughts, and it is in no wise permissible for one to belittle the thought of another. [SWA p.88] [To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendancy over other lands. [TNp87] The Constitutional Government, according to the irrefutable text of the Religion of God, is the cause of the glory and prosperity of the nation and the civilization and freedom of the people [TAB p. 492] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- [Italics added] `Abdu'l-Baha on Freedom of Conscience and Speech - Translated by Juan R.I. Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan Palo Alto, California, 9 October 1912: "Before `Abdu l-Baha left Palo Alto, a group again had the honor of gathering in the most holy court. Among his blessed utterances was an explanation of religious conflicts, especially those of the Christians. "Some said Christ was God, and some said he was the Word, while others called him a prophet. Because of these differences, conflicts arose among them, such that in the community there was enmity instead of spirituality, and estrangement rather than unity. But Baha u llah has closed the door on such differences. By arranging for interpretation to be carried out by an authoritative Interpreter of the Book, by establishing the Universal House of Justice--or in other words the Parliament of the [Baha i] community--and by commanding that there be no interference in beliefs or conscience, He blocked such breaches from occurring. He even said that if two persons discussing some matter develope a dispute, such that it leads to a polarization, both are wrong and discredited." (MahmŁd Zarq nˇ, Kit b-i Bad 'i` al-Ath r, 2 vols. (Hofheim-Langenhain: Bah 'ˇ-Verlag, 1982), 1:294.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- The Three Types of Liberty A Talk of `Abdu l-Baha given on 7 April 1913 in Budapest He is God. Liberty is of three sorts. One is the divine freedom, that is confined to the essence of the Creator. He is autonomous and absolute. No one can compel Him with regard to anything at all. Another form of liberty is that of the Europeans, which holds that human beings may do as they please on the condition that they not harm one another. This is the liberty of nature, and its highest degree is found in the animal world. This is the estate of the animal. Look at these birds, in what liberty they live. Whatever human beings might do, they can never be as free as animals. Rather, order stands in the way of freedom. As for the third sort of liberty, it is under the divine laws and ordinances. This is the liberty of the human world, which severs the heart s relationship with all things. It soothes all hardships and sorrow. The more the consciences of human beings progress, the more free their hearts become, and the more glad their spirits become. In the religion of God there is freedom of thought, for no one can rule over the [individual s] conscience save God. But [freedom of thought] exists only to the extent that it is not expressed in terms that depart from politeness. In the religion of God there is no freedom of deeds. No one can transgress the divine law, even if in so doing he harms no one. For by the divine law is intended the training of oneself and others. For to God, harming oneself or harming others are the same, and both are reprehensible. In hearts there must be the fear of God, and human beings must not commit blameworthy deeds. Therefore, the freedom of deeds that exists in civil law does not exist in religion. As for freedom of thought, it must not transgress the bounds of politeness. And deeds are also linked to fear of God and the divine good-pleasure. `Abdu'l-Hamˇd Ishr q-Kh varˇ, ed., M 'idih-yi Asm nˇ, 9 vols. (Tehran: Bah 'ˇ Publishing Trust, 1973) 5:17-18. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Freethought110" wrote in message news:newscache$48khvg$j7l1$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > Hey Dave, > > I didn't make the following up, but one of your looney leaders did. And you > have the gaul to accuse me of making stuff up out of hatred! This statement > is an unequivocal statement of pure religious fascism. Read it and weep, > > > https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html > > "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our > individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, > in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the > greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or > opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to > "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the > Faith." -Doug Martin > > -- > Freethought110 > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:37 PM Subject: uhj member on INDIVIDUAL CONSCIENCE - "abhorrent to the Teachings" IT CAN'T GET MUCH CLEARER THAN THIS: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > "conscience") Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: Terrorism :: Baha'i View Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, originally published in 1891, 87 - 92. [To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendancy over other lands. Other civilized countries acquired not this preeminence, nor attained unto these high degrees of influence and power, till such time as they put away the strife of sects out of their midst, and dealt with all classes according to one standard. All are one people, one nation, one species, one kind. The common interest is complete equality; justice and equality amongst mankind are amongst the chief promoters of empire and the principal means to the extension of the skirt of conquest. From whatever section of earth's denizens signs of contentiousness appear, prompt punishment is required by a just government; while any person who girds up the loins of endeavor and carries off the ball of priority is deserving of royal favors and worthy of splendid gifts. Times are changed, and the need and fashion of the world are changed. Interference with creed and faith in every country causes manifest detriment, while justice and equal dealing towards all peoples on the face of the earth are the means whereby progress is effected. *** Where is this little island in the North Atlantic, and where the vast territory of the East Indies? Can such extension be obtained save by equal justice to all peoples and classes? At all events, by means of just laws, freedom of conscience, and uniform dealing and equity towards all nationalities and peoples, they have actually brought under their dominion nearly all of the inhabited quarter of the world, and by reason of these principles of freedom they have added day by day to the strength, power, and extent of their empire, while most of the peoples on the face of the earth celebrate the name of this state for its justice. As regards religious zeal and true piety, their touchstone and proof are firmness and steadfastness in noble qualities, virtues, and perfections, which are the greatest blessings of the human race; but not interference with the belief of this one or that one, demolition of edifices, and cutting off of the human race. In the middle ages, whereof the beginning was the time of the fall of the Roman Empire, and the end the capture of Constantinople at the hands of [the followers of] Islám, fierce intolerance and molestation of far and near arose in [all] the countries of Europe by reason of the paramount influence of religious leaders. The matter came to such a pass that the edifice of humanity seemed tottering to its fall, and the peace and comfort of chief and vassal, king and subject, became hidden behind the veil of annihilation. Night and day all parties were slaves to apprehension and disquietude: civilization was utterly destroyed: the control and order of countries was neglected: the principles and essentials of the happiness of the human race were in abeyance: the supports of kingly authority were shaken: but the influence and power of the heads of religion and of the monks were in all parts complete. But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction; and whereas the mightiest monarchy of Europe had been servile to and abased before the smallest government of Asia, now the great states of Asia are unable to oppose the small states of Europe. These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants. So in the world of existence two persons unanimous in all grades [of thought] and all beliefs cannot be found. `The ways unto God are as the number of the breaths of [His] creatures' is a mysterious truth, and `To every [people] We have appointed a [separate] rite' [50] is one of the subtleties of the Qur'án. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Today we have closed our eyes to every righteous act and have sacrificed the abiding happiness of society to our own transitory profit. We regard fanaticism and zealotry as redounding to our credit and honor, and not content with this, we denounce one another and plot each other's ruin, and whenever we wish to put on a show of wisdom and learning, of virtue and godliness, we set about mocking and reviling this one and that. "The ideas of such a one," we say, "are wide of the mark, and so-and-so's behavior leaves much to be desired. The religious observances of Zayd are few and far between, and Amr is not firm in his faith."...With words such as these they assualt the minds of the helpless masses and disturb the hearts of the already bewildered poor, who know nothing of the true state of affairs and the real basis for such talk and remain completely unaware of the fact that a thousand selfish purposes are concealed behind the supposedly religious eloquence of certain individuals. They imagine that speakers of this type are motivated by virtuous zeal, when the truth is that such individuals keep up a great hue and cry because they see their own personal ruin in the welfare of the masses, and believe that if the people's eyes are opened their own light will go out. Abdul-Baha, The Secret of Divine Civilization, 56-57, 1990 edition. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects , but it remains always and forever one. Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife in your hearts." --Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, 53. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Truly, this is a great and revered nation. Here liberty has reached its highest degree. The intentions of its people are most praiseworthy. They are, indeed, worthy of being the first to build the Tabernacle of the Most Great Peace and proclaim the oneness of mankind. I will supplicate God for assistance [PUP p.36-37] You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying the perfect liberty, security and peace of this just government. There is no cause for sorrow or unhappiness anywhere; every means of happiness and enjoyment is about you, for in this human world there is no greater blessing than liberty. [PUP p.52] This is the century of new and universal nationhood. Sciences have advanced; industries have progressed; politics have been reformed; liberty has been proclaimed; justice is awakening. [PUP p.143] Praise be to God! The standard of liberty is held aloft in this land. You enjoy political liberty; you enjoy liberty of thought and speech, religious liberty, racial and personal liberty. Surely this is worthy of appreciation and thanksgiving.[PUP p.390] But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction [TN p.91] When meeting for consultation, each must use perfect liberty in stating his views and unveiling the proof of his demonstration. [BWF p.406] The third candle is unity in freedom which will surely come to pass. [SWA p.32] The honoured members must with all freedom express their own thoughts, and it is in no wise permissible for one to belittle the thought of another. [SWA p.88] [To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendancy over other lands. [TNp87] The Constitutional Government, according to the irrefutable text of the Religion of God, is the cause of the glory and prosperity of the nation and the civilization and freedom of the people [TAB p. 492] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Italics added] `Abdu'l-Baha on Freedom of Conscience and Speech - Translated by Juan R.I. Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan Palo Alto, California, 9 October 1912: "Before `Abdu l-Baha left Palo Alto, a group again had the honor of gathering in the most holy court. Among his blessed utterances was an explanation of religious conflicts, especially those of the Christians. "Some said Christ was God, and some said he was the Word, while others called him a prophet. Because of these differences, conflicts arose among them, such that in the community there was enmity instead of spirituality, and estrangement rather than unity. But Baha u llah has closed the door on such differences. By arranging for interpretation to be carried out by an authoritative Interpreter of the Book, by establishing the Universal House of Justice--or in other words the Parliament of the [Baha i] community--and by commanding that there be no interference in beliefs or conscience, He blocked such breaches from occurring. He even said that if two persons discussing some matter develope a dispute, such that it leads to a polarization, both are wrong and discredited." (MahmŁd Zarq nˇ, Kit b-i Bad 'i` al-Ath r, 2 vols. (Hofheim-Langenhain: Bah 'ˇ-Verlag, 1982), 1:294.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Three Types of Liberty A Talk of `Abdu l-Baha given on 7 April 1913 in Budapest He is God. Liberty is of three sorts. One is the divine freedom, that is confined to the essence of the Creator. He is autonomous and absolute. No one can compel Him with regard to anything at all. Another form of liberty is that of the Europeans, which holds that human beings may do as they please on the condition that they not harm one another. This is the liberty of nature, and its highest degree is found in the animal world. This is the estate of the animal. Look at these birds, in what liberty they live. Whatever human beings might do, they can never be as free as animals. Rather, order stands in the way of freedom. As for the third sort of liberty, it is under the divine laws and ordinances. This is the liberty of the human world, which severs the heart s relationship with all things. It soothes all hardships and sorrow. The more the consciences of human beings progress, the more free their hearts become, and the more glad their spirits become. In the religion of God there is freedom of thought, for no one can rule over the [individual s] conscience save God. But [freedom of thought] exists only to the extent that it is not expressed in terms that depart from politeness. In the religion of God there is no freedom of deeds. No one can transgress the divine law, even if in so doing he harms no one. For by the divine law is intended the training of oneself and others. For to God, harming oneself or harming others are the same, and both are reprehensible. In hearts there must be the fear of God, and human beings must not commit blameworthy deeds. Therefore, the freedom of deeds that exists in civil law does not exist in religion. As for freedom of thought, it must not transgress the bounds of politeness. And deeds are also linked to fear of God and the divine good-pleasure. `Abdu'l-Hamˇd Ishr q-Kh varˇ, ed., M 'idih-yi Asm nˇ, 9 vols. (Tehran: Bah 'ˇ Publishing Trust, 1973) 5:17-18. ------- Compare Abdu'l-Baha with what a member of the uhj has to say on conscience: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > "conscience") -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:92%z8.4682$TW.114059@news1.telusplanet.net... Bombs planted in parked cars explode near crowded market-places. Trucks loaded with explosives, driven by suicide bombers, crash through barriers into embassies and wreak devastation. Kidnappers abuse and manipulate the innocent. The nerve gas sarin is released in a subway station of a huge city, resulting in agonizing deaths and widespread casualties. Airplanes are hijacked and passengers are threatened with violence or death if the hijackers' demands are not met. These and similar events have occurred with such frequency in recent decades that one writer has speculated that terrorism could become "the incendiary torch and the devastating storm of the coming century."1 Indeed, the rise of the power and reach of terrorist threats throughout the twentieth century ranks as one of the most unsettling developments of current times. What, if anything, can be done about this pernicious and multidimensional phenomenon, with its many global ramifications? A clear definition of the problem would aid in the formulation of appropriate and effective plans to combat it. Terrorism has been described as "a special kind of violence designed to create a climate of fear among a wider target group than the immediate victims, usually for political ends,"2 and the US Federal Bureau of Investigation defines it as "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives." But while many definitions have been advanced, none has proven universally satisfactory. Such violence may be seen as both "a special kind" and "unlawful" by internationally accepted standards, but, depending on particular political affiliations and aspirations, one nation's "terrorist" may be another's "freedom fighter" and the terrorist's actions, rather than regarded as reprehensible, are justified as part of the heroic struggle for a noble cause. As long as governments or their peoples hide behind such rhetoric and countenance such actions, effective international response will remain beyond reach. In the meantime, the need to address the issue has become increasingly urgent as terrorists' actions generate wider and wider destruction. Their motives are often complex and sometimes unclear, but political theorist CJM Drake has identified separatism, religion, liberalism, anarchism, communism, conservatism, fascism, specific single issues, and/or organized crime as the most common ideologies embraced by contemporary terrorists.3 Commitment to such ideologies enables the "true believers" to dehumanize their targets and transform them into representative symbols. Ideology also provides a measure by which terrorists can easily identify "enemies" and determine the relative "innocence" or "guilt" of people and organizations. This, Drake says, allows them to identify particular people and things as "legitimate targets."4 Such targets include business, industry, various government facilities, and civilians who happen to be in the vicinity. Paul Wilkinson, of the Centre for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at St. Andrews University, Scotland, describes a trend towards "massive car and truck bombings in crowded city areas and 'spectacular' terrorist attacks, for example, on civil aviation, airport facilities or military or diplomatic facilities.. ."5 Overall objectives generally extend well beyond destruction of immediate targets, however. Terrorists' acts are designed to shock, to outrage, and to provide leverage for perpetrators' demands. Wilkinson lists the following as characteristic objectives: massive and immediate publicity as a result of an outrage or a series of atrocities; to inspire followers and sympathizers to further acts of terrorism or insurrection; to provoke the authorities into repressive over-reaction which the terrorists can then exploit to their political advantage; as a means of extortion to force the authorities into making concessions, such as the release of imprisoned terrorists or the payment of ransoms; to sow inter-communal hatred and conflict; to destroy public confidence in government and security agencies; and to coerce communities and activists into obeying the terrorist leadership.6 As more and more of the world's nation-states operate on a commonly understood platform of conduct, bound together-albeit imperfectly-by international conventions, treaties, and other kinds of protocols, terrorists know basically what kind of behavior to expect from their targets and what they mayor may not expect from them in retaliation. With such widely accepted standards, terrorists possess perhaps the greatest weapon of all: the ability to create a climate of fear and to intimidate and/or coerce others on a wider scale than ever before in history. And terrorist acts have a disproportionate impact. While only a handful of people perished in Aum Shinri Kyo's sarin attack on the Tokyo subway system in 1995, for example, the entire population of the city-and the country-was terrified at the thought that if this had occurred in one subway station, there was no telling when and where it might happen again. Similar fear could easily be generated through media reports of the release of even a small amount of biological or chemical toxins almost anywhere in the world, even though the actual efficacy of such attacks has so far been limited by inadequate delivery mechanisms. While the popular notion is that terrorism is a recent phenomenon, experts are quick to point out that it has a long history, reaching back at least to Biblical times. Secret societies in China and India also engaged in violence to achieve political ends-activity that, in various guises and in support of various causes, can be traced throughout history.7 The end of the nineteenth century was perhaps one of the "high points" in this long chronology. With the assassinations of a number of European leaders, including members of royalty and the US president, "it seemed no one was safe from terrorist attack." Walter Laqueur writes, "Terrorism became the leading preoccupation of politicians, police chiefs, journalists, and writers from Dostoevsky to Henry James. If in the year 1900 the leaders of the main industrial powers had assembled, most of them would have insisted on giving terrorism top priority on their agenda..."8 Terrorism has continued to flourish during the twentieth century, leaving almost no area of the world untouched. It has been used as a tool by both left- and right-wing causes and by groups of every conceivable stripe-anarchists, fascists, nationalists seeking independence, communists, extra-legal militias, and eco-terrorists-in places ranging from Europe to Asia, from South America to the Middle East, from the US to Africa.9 One alarming recent development, noted by former US ambassador for Counter-Terrorism Paul Bremer in 1995, is the evolution of "a new form of decentralized, religion-motivated terrorism."10 Other writers, too, have remarked that religion and nationalism have combined to become a powerful motivating force for contemporary acts of terror. One has noted, for example, that in 1968 there were no identifiable religious terrorist groups, while by the early 1990s almost one quarter of the world's active terrorist groups were motivated by their religious beliefs. The number of terrorist acts committed by such groups has risen sharply since 1988; they are estimated to be responsible for more than half of the 64,319 recorded incidents that occurred between 1970 and 1995.11 Terrorism has been called the poor man's way to wage war. While less affluent states are reluctant to be drawn into conflicts, some have found that they can best pursue their objectives by sponsoring terrorist activities. However, the inherent risks of such state-sponsored terrorism (terrorists turning on their hosts, for example) and actions by the international community, including diplomatic and economic sanctions, have worked to isolate state sponsors of terrorism. A few "rogue states" still do harbor terrorists, but the number of such havens is dwindling. While experts generally agree that state-sponsored terrorism is in decline, the number of transnational terrorist networks is proliferating-a development related to the upsurge in religiously motivated terrorism. The Report of the National Commission on Terrorism to the 105th US Congress (1997-98) noted, for example, that "today's terrorists...are...forming loose, transnational affiliations based on religious or ideological affinity and a common hatred of the United States."12 The detection and prevention of attacks carried out by such networks is very difficult. The development of global communications systems and of I technology that allows the production of weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear, radioactive, chemical, and biological weapons, has provided terrorists with access to more powerful tools than they have ever had at their disposal. Coupled with this, the destabilization of various governments and a general sense of social, political, economic, cultural, psychological, and spiritual crisis in the world have given them fertile new ground in which to flourish. The fragmentation of the world in the years since the end of the Cold War and widespread fear of globalization have radicalized various groups, and, in the words of one writer: The uncertainty and unpredictability in the present environment as the world searches for a new world order, amidst an increasingly complex global environment with ethnic and nationalist conflicts, provides many religious terrorist groups with the opportunity and ammunition to shape history according to their divine duty, cause, and mandate while it indicates for others that the end of time itself is near.13 Some commentators, however, offer a more prosaic explanation. In the particular case of the Arab world, for example, Fouad Ajami writes: We have looked to the heavens, and we have looked in the scripture, for explanations for the appeal of political Islam. We have spent a generation speaking of "Islamic fundamentalism," of that theocratic force that has come into Arab life. But the truth lies in material circumstances. Theocratic politics blew in when economic growth faltered... When a deep recession hit in the mid-1980s, due to the fall of oil prices, a politics of panic and resentment overtook the newly urbanized and newly prosperous. ..In the cities and in the no man's land trapped by the recession, the newly urbanized were strangers living on their nerves. Their children were available to the politics of millenarianism and tunnoil.14 The ascendancy of the United States-the so-called Great Satan-as the world's sole superpower has given focus to fundamentalist Islamic groups. The resentment of Western prosperity and the perceived threat of secularization, combined with the influence of charismatic, militant clerical leaders, has provided a fertile breeding ground for terrorism. Most Muslim terrorists, who are young, single men, have grown up in what they perceive as a climate of social injustice, oppressed by the Western powers, and the religious fervor-or fanaticism-that moves them is cultivated in the schools that they attend. Their education promotes a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam and emphasizes the duty of the individual to engage in "jihad." While some Islamic scholars interpret "jihad" primarily as "the righteous struggle" within the individual between the good and darker forces operating within the self, fundamentalists emphasize the interpretation of the term as struggle in a military sense, in which the "true faith" does battle against satanic forces (e.g. Western civilization with its "corrupt values" and "imperialism," the state of Israel, or other targeted groups). The vision that these young men acquire through their schooling provides them with an alternative to submission to the modern, secular forces they see not only as causing their own oppression but also as perpetrating evil throughout the entire world. An act against even one small element of those forces then becomes holy, virtuous. Death-even suicide-for such a cause is martyrdom. Their objective, as Paul Bremer writes, is "not a shift in American policy but the destruction of American society."15 Terrorists have sometimes been depicted as "idealistic and courageous young people, patriots and social revolutionaries, driven by intolerable conditions, by oppression and tyranny, to undertake desperate actions." But more than one writer has credited fanaticism, indiscriminate murder, and sheer aggression as the motive force behind contemporary terrorist acts. This kind of "apocalyptic nihilism" represents a pure urge to destroy-terror for solely terror's sake.16 -- more... https://oneness-of-mankind.web-page.net >> World Watch ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:39 PM Subject: Re: uhj member on INDIVIDUAL CONSCIENCE - "abhorrent to the Teachings" Christianity NEVER has claimed that the individual conscience is SUPREME, nor has any legitimate representative form of Western governement, only the demagogue on the uhj named Doug Martin.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:aarq2u$d0snr$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > IT CAN'T GET MUCH CLEARER THAN THIS: > > "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our > individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, > in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the > greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or > opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to > "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the > Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj > https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > "conscience") > > Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 6:59 AM Subject: Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member "Freethought110" wrote in message news:newscache$0mbivg$hwl1$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > Well, Fred, lest the fundies ever accuse any of us of making things up, this > quote as you say doesn't get any clearer as to who exactly is making what > up. Doug Martin is clearly overruling Baha'u'llah himself this time. Is > there any doubt now that the hardliners are attempting to throw a veil of > religious fascism upon the Baha'i religion? With this quote it doesn't get > any clearer! I definitely agree. If you read the passage the quotation is from it's interesting that Martin places so much emphasis on the Bab, which makes perfect sense for justifying a fundamentalist agenda.... I had thought Juan Cole must have been at times exaggerating a little about Doug Martin's fanaticism. I stand corrected. Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm Brief History of Douglas Martin, member of bahai uhj https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 7:56 AM Subject: Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj. Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "conscience") Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm Brief History of Douglas Martin, member of bahai uhj https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: UN &: Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member Compare Doug Martin on UN: In the highest circles of the UN, people are consulting on Baha'u'llah's issues! Baha'is coordinated the work of all the NGO's at the Millennial Summit. The permanent representative of the Baha'i International Community was the Chair. Then the BIC was called to represent all of Civil Society at the governmental Millennium Summit -- the only NGO to do so. Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "UN" match case) And regarding, Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm See then my two messages on the bahai faith & the UN: uhj LIES to United Nations & US Government June 2000 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN.htm Bahais at United Nations Millennium Forum & Summit June 2000 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN2.htm After reading ALL of the above, think carefully about the influence on the UN of someone like Doug Martin and his views.... Ask yourself, does the UN know the record of the bahai faith regarding freedom of conscience within its own ranks? -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:aatu08$dkdcf$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: > > "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our > individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, > in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the > greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or > opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to > "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the > Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj. > Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html > (Edit>Find > "conscience") > > Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 > Doug Martin, uhj member > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm > > Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm > > Brief History of Douglas Martin, member of bahai uhj > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:10 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member One other important piece of evidence: Bahai international community Abuses its Access to UN MF Mailing List 4/2002 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/OneCountry.htm Note especially at the end that the bic abused its control of MFDiscuss@yahoo.com to suppress my posting to it. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:aatul7$d1jna$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > Compare Doug Martin on UN: > > In the highest circles of the UN, people are consulting on Baha'u'llah's > issues! Baha'is coordinated the work of all the NGO's at the Millennial > Summit. The permanent representative of the Baha'i International Community > was the Chair. Then the BIC was called to represent all of Civil Society at > the governmental Millennium Summit -- the only NGO to do so. > Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html > (Edit>Find > "UN" match case) > > And regarding, Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from > Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm > > See then my two messages on the bahai faith & the UN: > > uhj LIES to United Nations & US Government June 2000 > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN.htm > > Bahais at United Nations Millennium Forum & Summit June 2000 > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN2.htm > > After reading ALL of the above, think carefully about the > influence on the UN of someone like Doug Martin and his > views.... Ask yourself, does the UN know the record of > the bahai faith regarding freedom of conscience within its > own ranks? > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > news:aatu08$dkdcf$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: > > > > "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our > > individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, > > in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the > > greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions > or > > opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent > to > > "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the > > Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj. > > Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html > > (Edit>Find > "conscience") > > > > Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 > > Doug Martin, uhj member > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm > > > > Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm > > > > Brief History of Douglas Martin, member of bahai uhj > > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 8:47 AM Subject: bahai faith & its Influence on the United Nations 5/2002 bahai faith & its Influence on the United Nations 5/2002 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UNmenu.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship To understand the influence of the bahai faith on the United Nations, I suggest the reader might find it helpful to consider these documents in the following order: Doug Martin, member of the bahai universal house of justice on the United Nations: "In the highest circles of the UN, people are consulting on Baha'u'llah's issues! Baha'is coordinated the work of all the NGO's at the Millennial Summit. The permanent representative of the Baha'i International Community was the Chair. Then the BIC was called to represent all of Civil Society at the governmental Millennium Summit -- the only NGO to do so." {If interested in reading full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "UN" match case, several clicks into it)} Cf. Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm See then my messages on the bahai faith & the UN: uhj LIES to United Nations & US Government June 2000 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN.htm Bahais at United Nations Millennium Forum & Summit June 2000 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN2.htm Bahai international community Abuses its Access to UN MF Mailing List 4/2002 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/OneCountry.htm Note especially at the end that the bic abused its control over MFDiscuss@yahoo.com in order to suppress my informing other Forum members of its abuse. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- After reading ALL of the above, think carefully about the influence on the UN of someone like Doug Martin who holds such a fundamentalist interpretation of the bahai faith. Does the UN know the record of the bahai faith regarding freedom of conscience within its own ranks? I would find it very worrisome if it does. My guess is that bahais at the UN, such as Techeste Ahderom, co-chair of the Millennium Forum and the principal bahai representative to the United Nations, dismiss concerns whenever they are raised by anyone within the Organization, essentially participating in deception. Brief History of Douglas Martin Professor Juan Cole, University of Michigan https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... Compare the moderation of Abdu'l-Baha to the fanaticism of Doug Martin and other fundamentalists among my fellow bahais: Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, originally published in 1891, 87 - 92. [To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendancy over other lands. Other civilized countries acquired not this preeminence, nor attained unto these high degrees of influence and power, till such time as they put away the strife of sects out of their midst, and dealt with all classes according to one standard. All are one people, one nation, one species, one kind. The common interest is complete equality; justice and equality amongst mankind are amongst the chief promoters of empire and the principal means to the extension of the skirt of conquest. From whatever section of earth's denizens signs of contentiousness appear, prompt punishment is required by a just government; while any person who girds up the loins of endeavor and carries off the ball of priority is deserving of royal favors and worthy of splendid gifts. Times are changed, and the need and fashion of the world are changed. Interference with creed and faith in every country causes manifest detriment, while justice and equal dealing towards all peoples on the face of the earth are the means whereby progress is effected. *** Where is this little island in the North Atlantic, and where the vast territory of the East Indies? Can such extension be obtained save by equal justice to all peoples and classes? At all events, by means of just laws, freedom of conscience, and uniform dealing and equity towards all nationalities and peoples, they have actually brought under their dominion nearly all of the inhabited quarter of the world, and by reason of these principles of freedom they have added day by day to the strength, power, and extent of their empire, while most of the peoples on the face of the earth celebrate the name of this state for its justice. As regards religious zeal and true piety, their touchstone and proof are firmness and steadfastness in noble qualities, virtues, and perfections, which are the greatest blessings of the human race; but not interference with the belief of this one or that one, demolition of edifices, and cutting off of the human race. In the middle ages, whereof the beginning was the time of the fall of the Roman Empire, and the end the capture of Constantinople at the hands of [the followers of] Islám, fierce intolerance and molestation of far and near arose in [all] the countries of Europe by reason of the paramount influence of religious leaders. The matter came to such a pass that the edifice of humanity seemed tottering to its fall, and the peace and comfort of chief and vassal, king and subject, became hidden behind the veil of annihilation. Night and day all parties were slaves to apprehension and disquietude: civilization was utterly destroyed: the control and order of countries was neglected: the principles and essentials of the happiness of the human race were in abeyance: the supports of kingly authority were shaken: but the influence and power of the heads of religion and of the monks were in all parts complete. But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction; and whereas the mightiest monarchy of Europe had been servile to and abased before the smallest government of Asia, now the great states of Asia are unable to oppose the small states of Europe. These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants. So in the world of existence two persons unanimous in all grades [of thought] and all beliefs cannot be found. `The ways unto God are as the number of the breaths of [His] creatures' is a mysterious truth, and `To every [people] We have appointed a [separate] rite' [50] is one of the subtleties of the Qur'án. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "Today we have closed our eyes to every righteous act and have sacrificed the abiding happiness of society to our own transitory profit. We regard fanaticism and zealotry as redounding to our credit and honor, and not content with this, we denounce one another and plot each other's ruin, and whenever we wish to put on a show of wisdom and learning, of virtue and godliness, we set about mocking and reviling this one and that. "The ideas of such a one," we say, "are wide of the mark, and so-and-so's behavior leaves much to be desired. The religious observances of Zayd are few and far between, and Amr is not firm in his faith."...With words such as these they assualt the minds of the helpless masses and disturb the hearts of the already bewildered poor, who know nothing of the true state of affairs and the real basis for such talk and remain completely unaware of the fact that a thousand selfish purposes are concealed behind the supposedly religious eloquence of certain individuals. They imagine that speakers of this type are motivated by virtuous zeal, when the truth is that such individuals keep up a great hue and cry because they see their own personal ruin in the welfare of the masses, and believe that if the people's eyes are opened their own light will go out. Abdul-Baha, The Secret of Divine Civilization, 56-57, 1990 edition. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects , but it remains always and forever one. Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife in your hearts." --Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, 53. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Truly, this is a great and revered nation. Here liberty has reached its highest degree. The intentions of its people are most praiseworthy. They are, indeed, worthy of being the first to build the Tabernacle of the Most Great Peace and proclaim the oneness of mankind. I will supplicate God for assistance [PUP p.36-37] You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying the perfect liberty, security and peace of this just government. There is no cause for sorrow or unhappiness anywhere; every means of happiness and enjoyment is about you, for in this human world there is no greater blessing than liberty. [PUP p.52] This is the century of new and universal nationhood. Sciences have advanced; industries have progressed; politics have been reformed; liberty has been proclaimed; justice is awakening. [PUP p.143] Praise be to God! The standard of liberty is held aloft in this land. You enjoy political liberty; you enjoy liberty of thought and speech, religious liberty, racial and personal liberty. Surely this is worthy of appreciation and thanksgiving.[PUP p.390] But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction [TN p.91] When meeting for consultation, each must use perfect liberty in stating his views and unveiling the proof of his demonstration. [BWF p.406] The third candle is unity in freedom which will surely come to pass. [SWA p.32] The honoured members must with all freedom express their own thoughts, and it is in no wise permissible for one to belittle the thought of another. [SWA p.88] [To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendancy over other lands. [TNp87] The Constitutional Government, according to the irrefutable text of the Religion of God, is the cause of the glory and prosperity of the nation and the civilization and freedom of the people [TAB p. 492] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- [Italics added] `Abdu'l-Baha on Freedom of Conscience and Speech - Translated by Juan R.I. Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan Palo Alto, California, 9 October 1912: "Before `Abdu l-Baha left Palo Alto, a group again had the honor of gathering in the most holy court. Among his blessed utterances was an explanation of religious conflicts, especially those of the Christians. "Some said Christ was God, and some said he was the Word, while others called him a prophet. Because of these differences, conflicts arose among them, such that in the community there was enmity instead of spirituality, and estrangement rather than unity. But Baha u llah has closed the door on such differences. By arranging for interpretation to be carried out by an authoritative Interpreter of the Book, by establishing the Universal House of Justice--or in other words the Parliament of the [Baha i] community--and by commanding that there be no interference in beliefs or conscience, He blocked such breaches from occurring. He even said that if two persons discussing some matter develope a dispute, such that it leads to a polarization, both are wrong and discredited." (MahmŁd Zarq nˇ, Kit b-i Bad 'i` al-Ath r, 2 vols. (Hofheim-Langenhain: Bah 'ˇ-Verlag, 1982), 1:294.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- The Three Types of Liberty A Talk of `Abdu l-Baha given on 7 April 1913 in Budapest He is God. Liberty is of three sorts. One is the divine freedom, that is confined to the essence of the Creator. He is autonomous and absolute. No one can compel Him with regard to anything at all. Another form of liberty is that of the Europeans, which holds that human beings may do as they please on the condition that they not harm one another. This is the liberty of nature, and its highest degree is found in the animal world. This is the estate of the animal. Look at these birds, in what liberty they live. Whatever human beings might do, they can never be as free as animals. Rather, order stands in the way of freedom. As for the third sort of liberty, it is under the divine laws and ordinances. This is the liberty of the human world, which severs the heart s relationship with all things. It soothes all hardships and sorrow. The more the consciences of human beings progress, the more free their hearts become, and the more glad their spirits become. In the religion of God there is freedom of thought, for no one can rule over the [individual s] conscience save God. But [freedom of thought] exists only to the extent that it is not expressed in terms that depart from politeness. In the religion of God there is no freedom of deeds. No one can transgress the divine law, even if in so doing he harms no one. For by the divine law is intended the training of oneself and others. For to God, harming oneself or harming others are the same, and both are reprehensible. In hearts there must be the fear of God, and human beings must not commit blameworthy deeds. Therefore, the freedom of deeds that exists in civil law does not exist in religion. As for freedom of thought, it must not transgress the bounds of politeness. And deeds are also linked to fear of God and the divine good-pleasure. `Abdu'l-Hamˇd Ishr q-Kh varˇ, ed., M 'idih-yi Asm nˇ, 9 vols. (Tehran: Bah 'ˇ Publishing Trust, 1973) 5:17-18. Compare John Winthrop on Liberty ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Compare Abdu'l-Baha with what a member of the uhj has to say on conscience: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > "conscience") -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... Ah, yes, plausible denial - the tyrant's subterfuge.... Compare Abdu'l-Baha with what a member of the uhj has to say on conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm Member of the uhj: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > "conscience") -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Jordan Rager" wrote in message news:ab03cc$a1u$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca... > I think the key to Mr. Sylvester's point is that he is paraphrasing > sections of Mr. Martin's talk and that nothing has been transcribed > verbatim. ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists Having observed the tactics of bahai fundamentalists for over twenty-five years, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always Slander, Demonize, Discredit, Shun, Ad Hominem, Smear, Scapegoat, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Silence, Harass, etc., etc., the individual.... All of which has become known as "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for uninformed non-bahais that the individual in question is unbalanced, aberrant, "spamming," a liar, crazy, disgruntled, reprobate, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject by shifting to the past and arguing over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses the "temporary measure" of "review," for over 80 years now, to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to discuss anything with them is simply a waste of time and energy. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of bahai fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts. My reposts are intended for the uninformed and naive, exactly what enrages the extremists among my fellow bahais. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how deceitful bahai fanatics have been and are willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record so that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai website. It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so many years.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ "Jordan Rager" wrote in message news:ab40bs$e0n$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca... > Look: Mr. Martin did not say those words, so why quote him as doing such? > Find out what exactly he has said and then argue with that. No one is trying > to dodge a bullet here. I just think it is silly to hold a man to words that > do not belong to him. Moreover, I think it is wrong to slander an individual > or a body. Why do you consistently try to defame and malign the Universal > House of Justice? What part of the covenant did you opt out of when you > professed your belief in it initially? > > I do not believe that this is the way to assist the Cause of God, which is > what I assume you are trying to do. What would tyrants in the Baha'i Faith > have to gain by such behaviour? Notoriety? (among six million people, 99% > percent of whom likely can't name a single individual on the House, and > whose works are published without individual authorship). Posterity? (in a > world whose worth is "as much as the black in the eye of a dead ant" > (Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 56)). I think not, but am > curious as to what you think they have to benefit from being tyrannical. > > jordan rager > > Bahai Faith wrote in message > news:ab0nmm$eabh7$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Ah, yes, plausible denial - the tyrant's subterfuge.... > > > > Compare Abdu'l-Baha with what a member of the uhj has to say on > conscience: > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm > > > > Member of the uhj: > > "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our > > individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, > > in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the > > greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions > or > > opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent > to > > "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the > > Faith." -Doug Martin > > https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > > "conscience") > > > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > "Jordan Rager" wrote in message > > news:ab03cc$a1u$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca... > > > I think the key to Mr. Sylvester's point is that he is paraphrasing > > > sections of Mr. Martin's talk and that nothing has been transcribed > > > verbatim. > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 6:57 AM Subject: "A dangerous delusion from Christianity" = Individual Conscience "Freethought110" wrote in message news:newscache$k76ovg$99r1$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > Well, then, put your money where your mouth is and find out if Doug Martin > said this bullshit! As far as I am concerned, it is a direct quote. > Furthermore, Ron House has verified that Peter Khan has expressed the same > sort of statement to him directly. So the onus is firmly on *you* guys to > prove that Martin and co have not made such statements when clearly there is > corroborative evidence on several instances that they have. So, Kohli, show > me it's bullshit, don't tell me it's bullshit ;-) > I heard Firuz Khazemzadeh, member of the USA nsa say something similar in Phoenix at a bahai conference in 1991 or '92. Anyone who is an honest person and a bahai (the two don't always go together) should be able to recall numerous occasions at bahai-only events when such things have been intimated. Compare member of the uhj: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > "conscience") -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 6:59 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... "a dangerous delusion from Christianity" = Individual Conscience "Randy Burns" wrote in message news:bipB8.12961$n3.9770@nwrddc01.gnilink.net... > Do you have a statement from Martin that disavows this quote? If not then > tough luck, he is pretty much stuck with this quote on his back. Maybe he > would like to take it back now? Feel free to directly quote him on this > subject. Here's the quotation: member of the uhj: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > "conscience") -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 7:44 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... = "dangerous delusion from Christianity" - Excerpts from "The Bahai Technique" Professor Juan Cole, University of Michigan, Department of History, June 12, 1998: "Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB [Covenant Breaker (heretic)] to silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect racket. Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case, either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!" Cole10.htm Professor Juan Cole, February 23, 1999: "There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear the sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to being "Baha'i" at all). Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'is or when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith. The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to a heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall silent. With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy, of "claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted, twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,' and even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by *Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them. This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all the talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot refute. Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years. He can explain it to you." Cole71.htm Excerpts from "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Jordan Rager" wrote in message news:ab40bs$e0n$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca... > Look: Mr. Martin did not say those words, so why quote him as doing such? > Find out what exactly he has said and then argue with that. No one is trying > to dodge a bullet here. I just think it is silly to hold a man to words that > do not belong to him. Moreover, I think it is wrong to slander an individual > or a body. Why do you consistently try to defame and malign the Universal > House of Justice? What part of the covenant did you opt out of when you > professed your belief in it initially? > > I do not believe that this is the way to assist the Cause of God, which is > what I assume you are trying to do. What would tyrants in the Baha'i Faith > have to gain by such behaviour? Notoriety? (among six million people, 99% > percent of whom likely can't name a single individual on the House, and > whose works are published without individual authorship). Posterity? (in a > world whose worth is "as much as the black in the eye of a dead ant" > (Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 56)). I think not, but am > curious as to what you think they have to benefit from being tyrannical. > > jordan rager > > Bahai Faith wrote in message > news:ab0nmm$eabh7$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Ah, yes, plausible denial - the tyrant's subterfuge.... > > > > Compare Abdu'l-Baha with what a member of the uhj has to say on > conscience: > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm > > > > Member of the uhj: > > "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our > > individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, > > in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the > greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions > or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the > > Faith." -Doug Martin > https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > > "conscience") > > > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... "dangerous delusion from Christianity" Thank you, Karen, for finding such illuminating passages. We all have heard these things stated or intimated in bahai meetings many times but the fundamentalists have been careful to hide their true beliefs from the public eye and new bahais. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:udd3787ql6j0f3@corp.supernews.com... > > > -- > "The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice . . ." -- > Baha'u'llah > Randy Burns wrote in message > news:bipB8.12961$n3.9770@nwrddc01.gnilink.net... > > Do you have a statement from Martin that disavows this quote? If not then > > tough luck, he is pretty much stuck with this quote on his back. Maybe he > > would like to take it back now? Feel free to directly quote him on this > > subject. > > Dear Randy, > > This isn't an idea that Martin just recently came up with; he's been saying > it for years. > > I found this in that little series called "The Power of the Covenant" > publishedby the NSA of > Canada in 1977. The authors were Douglas Martin, Peter Khan, and Jane > Faily. This idea connecting Christianity with the belief in individual > conscience is repeated in Part 3: The Face of Opposition, on page 28. It > says that the Christian idea of the Holy Spirit allows every individual to > claim inspiration and therefore, opens the door to sectarianism. The passage > continues: > > "The result was to create in the minds of most Christians a vague > assumption that, when the individual prays directly to God, he receives > guidance through his private conscience. Many times, the promptings of > conscience contradict the apparent meaning of Christian scriptures (as in > the case of St. Paul's statements on celibacy) or the explicit teachings of > a particular church (as with race relationships). Increasingly, however, > it is conscience which is regarded as the reliable guide, a guide which has > no objective check on it." > > Even more striking on p. 30: > > "This system of belief has had many admirable results in the individual > spiritual life. Its unrestrained influence on social history, however, > reveals many limitations. It permitted the growth of the conviction not > only that personal conscience is the ultimate authority in life, but also > that personal freedom is the highest good. The rise of a democratic > political philosophy and democratic processes in the West gave the final > blessing to this doctrine of individualism. "Christianity" and "Democracy" > in time blended in the public mind as one vaguely defined, but immensely > influential popular cult of individualism, embracing people of all > religious denominations. Such a cult differs in several important ways > from the Teachings of Baha'u'llah". > > While, of course, this is not a direct quote from Martin himself, and he was > not the only author here, the similarity to the notes taken from his talk > pretty strongly suggests that this is, indeed, his attitude about > Christianity, Democracy, and the conscience of the individual. And the fact > that this came out in an official publication of the NSA carries some > weight -- this was part of an effort to deepen people on the Covenant, so > presumably it reflects what they think is "correct" Baha'i teaching. There > have also been remarks in more recent UHJ letters disparaging the role of > individual conscience. > > Love, Karen > https://www.bacquet.tk > > > > > > Cheers, Randy > > > > -- > > > > Jordan Rager wrote in message > > news:ab40bs$e0n$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca... > > > Look: Mr. Martin did not say those words, so why quote him as doing > such? > > > Find out what exactly he has said and then argue with that. No one is > > trying > > > to dodge a bullet here. I just think it is silly to hold a man to words > > that > > > do not belong to him. Moreover, I think it is wrong to slander an > > individual > > > or a body. Why do you consistently try to defame and malign the > Universal > > > House of Justice? What part of the covenant did you opt out of when you > > > professed your belief in it initially? > > > > > > > > > > > Member of the uhj: > > > > "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our > > > > individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the > > end, > > > > in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the > > > > greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal > convictions > > > or > > > > opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is > equivalent > > > to > > > > "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the > > > > Faith." -Doug Martin > > > > https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Find > > > > "conscience") > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Frederick Glaysher > > > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > > > > > "Jordan Rager" wrote in message > > > > news:ab03cc$a1u$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca... > > > > > I think the key to Mr. Sylvester's point is that he is paraphrasing > > > > > sections of Mr. Martin's talk and that nothing has been transcribed > > > > > verbatim. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 11:35 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:udd3787ql6j0f3@corp.supernews.com... > > There have also been remarks in more recent UHJ letters disparaging >the role of individual conscience. Karen, When you have a chance, could you quote those disparaging uhj letters? I'm sure I would not be alone in finding them interesting. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: John Milton on the "grim Woolf" - Lycidas [St. Peter, the pilot of Christ's boat] Last came, and last did go, The Pilot of the Galilean lake, 110 Two massy Keyes he bore of metals twain, (The Golden opes, the Iron shuts amain) He shook his Miter'd locks, and stern bespake, How well could I have spar'd for thee young swain, Anow of such as for their bellies sake, 115 Creep and intrude, and climb into the fold? Of other care they little reck'ning make, Then how to scramble at the shearers feast, And shove away the worthy bidden guest. Blind mouthes! that scarce themselves know how to hold 120 A Sheep-hook, or have learn'd ought els the least That to the faithfull Herdmans art belongs! What recks it them? What need they? They are sped; And when they list, their lean and flashy songs Grate on their scrannel Pipes of wretched straw, 125 The hungry Sheep look up, and are not fed, But swoln with wind, and the rank mist they draw, Rot inwardly, and foul contagion spread: Besides what the grim Woolf with privy paw Daily devours apace, and nothing sed, 130 But that two-handed engine at the door, Stands ready to smite once, and smite no more. Excerpt from John Milton, Lycidas. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:28 AM Subject: 64. O OPPRESSORS OF EARTH! 64. O OPPRESSORS OF EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man's injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed it with My seal of glory. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Tyranny.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Justice.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:29 AM Subject: Abdu'l-Baha - "You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying ******* Abdu'l-Baha - "You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying Abdu'l-Baha - "You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying the perfect liberty, security and peace of this just government. There is no cause for sorrow or unhappiness anywhere; every means of happiness and enjoyment is about you, for in this human world there is no greater blessing than liberty." [PUP p.52] https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:30 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "....right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when ******* [ bahai ] "....right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when [ bahai ] "....right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot refute." --Professor Juan Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:30 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "Suppression (that is what it was) of Dialogue magazine by ******** [ bahai ] "Suppression (that is what it was) of Dialogue magazine by [ bahai ] "Suppression (that is what it was) of Dialogue magazine by Kazemzadeh and Henderson." Professor Juan Cole, May 13, 1999 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole30.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:31 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "Shunning is the marker of a cult . . . note that these are all ********* [ bahai ] "Shunning is the marker of a cult . . . note that these are all [ bahai ] "Shunning is the marker of a cult . . . note that these are all relatively small cults and none of them will ever really amount to anything in mainstream society." "I think shunning is a human rights abuse. It may be legal (in non-tort situations), but then, lots of human rights abuses are legal. I don't see the difference between the Mafia organizing a conspiracy to have someone's restaurant boycotted unless he pays protection money, and a religious organization threatening to prevent someone from seeing his coreligionist relatives at reunions unless he is blindly obedient to them. Both are forms of coercion that invade privacy and detract from the autonomy and dignity of the individual." - Professor Juan Cole, February 12, 1999 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole54.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:32 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "These are the people who sent their man to my own home to ********* [ bahai ] "These are the people who sent their man to my own home to [ bahai ] "These are the people who sent their man to my own home to interrogate me and then had me (a well known professor of Middle East Studies at a major university!) threatened with being shunned unless I fell silent! If that isnt' the coercion of conscience then I don't know what is!" Professor Juan Cole, January 31, 1999 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole72.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:32 AM Subject: bahai - "That includes blowing the whistle on coercion, manipulation ********* bahai - "That includes blowing the whistle on coercion, manipulation bahai - "That includes blowing the whistle on coercion, manipulation and abuse by Baha'i administrators of innocent adherents. I plead for all right thinking and compassionate persons to join me in trying to reform the Baha'i administration by critiquing it. It is out of kilter. Its members know it is out of kilter. It needs to be righted. Kowtowing only keeps it out of kilter." Professor Juan Cole, October 12, 1998 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole19.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:33 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions ******** [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects , but it remains always and forever one. Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife in your hearts." --Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, 53. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Truly, this is a great and revered nation. Here liberty has reached its highest degree. The intentions of its people are most praiseworthy. They are, indeed, worthy of being the first to build the Tabernacle of the Most Great Peace and proclaim the oneness of mankind. I will supplicate God for assistance [PUP p.36-37] You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying the perfect liberty , security and peace of this just government. There is no cause for sorrow or unhappiness anywhere; every means of happiness and enjoyment is about you, for in this human world there is no greater blessing than liberty. [PUP p.52] This is the century of new and universal nationhood. Sciences have advanced; industries have progressed; politics have been reformed; liberty has been proclaimed; justice is awakening. [PUP p.143] Praise be to God! The standard of liberty is held aloft in this land. You enjoy political liberty; you enjoy liberty of thought and speech, religious liberty, racial and personal liberty. Surely this is worthy of appreciation and thanksgiving.[PUP p.390] But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction [TN p.91] When meeting for consultation, each must use perfect liberty in stating his views and unveiling the proof of his demonstration. [BWF p.406] The third candle is unity in freedom which will surely come to pass. [SWA p.32] The honoured members must with all freedom express their own thoughts, and it is in no wise permissible for one to belittle the thought of another,[SWA p.88] [To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendency over other lands. [TNp87] The Constitutional Government, according to the irrefutable text of the Religion of God, is the cause of the glory and prosperity of the nation and the civilization and freedom of the people[TAB p. 492] https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:34 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdul-Baha - freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart - ******** [ bahai ] Abdul-Baha - freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart - [ bahai ] Abdul-Baha - freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart - "[To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendency over other lands. Other civilized countries acquired not this preeminence, nor attained unto these high degrees of influence and power, till such time as they put away the strife of sects out of their midst, and dealt with all classes according to one standard. All are one people, one nation, one species, one kind. The common interest is complete equality; justice and equality amongst mankind are amongst the chief promoters of empire and the principal means to the extension of the skirt of conquest. From whatever section of earth's denizens signs of contentiousness appear, prompt punishment is required by a just government; while any person who girds up the loins of endeavor and carries off the ball of priority is deserving of royal favors and worthy of splendid gifts. Times are changed, and the need and fashion of the world are changed. Interference with creed and faith in every country causes manifest detriment, while justice and equal dealing towards all peoples on the face of the earth are the means whereby progress is effected. * * * Where is this little island in the North Atlantic, and where the vast territory of the East Indies? Can such extension be obtained save by equal justice to all peoples and classes? At all events, by means of just laws, freedom of conscience, and uniform dealing and equity towards all nationalities and peoples, they have actually brought under their dominion nearly all of the inhabited quarter of the world, and by reason of these principles of freedom they have added day by day to the strength, power, and extent of their empire, while most of the peoples on the face of the earth celebrate the name of this state for its justice. As regards religious zeal and true piety, their touchstone and proof are firmness and steadfastness in noble qualities, virtues, and perfections, which are the greatest blessings of the human race; but not interference with the belief of this one or that one, demolition of edifices, and cutting off of the human race. In the middle ages, whereof the beginning was the time of the fall of the Roman Empire, and the end the capture of Constantinople at the hands of [the followers of] Islám, fierce intolerance and molestation of far and near arose in [all] the countries of Europe by reason of the paramount influence of religious leaders. The matter came to such a pass that the edifice of humanity seemed tottering to its fall, and the peace and comfort of chief and vassal, king and subject, became hidden behind the veil of annihilation. Night and day all parties were slaves to apprehension and disquietude: civilization was utterly destroyed: the control and order of countries was neglected: the principles and essentials of the happiness of the human race were in abeyance: the supports of kingly authority were shaken: but the influence and power of the heads of religion and of the monks were in all parts complete. But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction; and whereas the mightiest monarchy of Europe had been servile to and abased before the smallest government of Asia, now the great states of Asia are unable to oppose the small states of Europe. These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants. So in the world of existence two persons unanimous in all grades [of thought] and all beliefs cannot be found. `The ways unto God are as the number of the breaths of [His] creatures' is a mysterious truth, and `To every [people] We have appointed a [separate] rite' [50] is one of the subtleties of the Qur'án." A Traveler's Narrative, originally published in 1891, 87 - 92. https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:34 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha on Freedom of Conscience and Speech - Translated by ********* [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha on Freedom of Conscience and Speech - Translated by [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha on Freedom of Conscience and Speech - Translated by Juan R.I. Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan. Palo Alto, California, 9 October 1912: "Before `Abdu l-Baha left Palo Alto, a group again had the honor of gathering in the most holy court. Among his blessed utterances was an explanation of religious conflicts, especially those of the Christians. "Some said Christ was God, and some said he was the Word, while others called him a prophet. Because of these differences, conflicts arose among them, such that in the community there was enmity instead of spirituality, and estrangement rather than unity. But Baha u llah has closed the door on such differences. By arranging for interpretation to be carried out by an authoritative Interpreter of the Book, by establishing the Universal House of Justice--or in other words the Parliament of the [Baha i] community--and by commanding that there be no interference in beliefs or conscience, He blocked such breaches from occurring. He even said that if two persons discussing some matter develope a dispute, such that it leads to a polarization, both are wrong and discredited." (MahmŁd Zarq nˇ, Kit b-i Bad 'i` al-Ath r, 2 vols. (Hofheim-Langenhain: Bah 'ˇ-Verlag, 1982), 1:294.) -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Three Types of Liberty A Talk of `Abdu l-Baha given on 7 April 1913 in Budapest He is God. Liberty is of three sorts. One is the divine freedom, that is confined to the essence of the Creator. He is autonomous and absolute. No one can compel Him with regard to anything at all. Another form of liberty is that of the Europeans, which holds that human beings may do as they please on the condition that they not harm one another. This is the liberty of nature, and its highest degree is found in the animal world. This is the estate of the animal. Look at these birds, in what liberty they live. Whatever human beings might do, they can never be as free as animals. Rather, order stands in the way of freedom. As for the third sort of liberty, it is under the divine laws and ordinances. This is the liberty of the human world, which severs the heart relationship with all things. It soothes all hardships and sorrow. The more the consciences of human beings progress, the more free their hearts become, and the more glad their spirits become. In the religion of God there is freedom of thought, for no one can rule over the [individual s] conscience save God. But [freedom of thought] exists only to the extent that it is not expressed in terms that depart from politeness. In the religion of God there is no freedom of deeds. No one can transgress the divine law, even if in so doing he harms no one. For by the divine law is intended the training of oneself and others. For to God, harming oneself or harming others are the same, and both are reprehensible. In hearts there must be the fear of God, and human beings must not commit blameworthy deeds. Therefore, the freedom of deeds that exists in civil law does not exist in religion. As for freedom of thought, it must not transgress the bounds of politeness. And deeds are also linked to fear of God and the divine good-pleasure. `Abdu'l-Hamˇd Ishr q-Kh varˇ, ed., M 'idih-yi Asm nˇ, 9 vols. (Tehran: Bah 'ˇ Publishing Trust, 1973) 5:17-18. https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:35 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "This is a goodly temple and congregation, ********* [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "This is a goodly temple and congregation, [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "This is a goodly temple and congregation, for--praise be to God!--this is a house of worship [Central Congregational Church in Brooklyn on 16 June 1912] wherein conscientious opinion has free sway. Every religion and every religious aspiration may be freely voiced and expressed here. Just as in the world of politics there is need for free thought, likewise in the world of religion there should be the right of unrestricted individual belief. Consider what a vast difference exists between modern democracy and the old forms of despotism. Under an autocratic government the opinions of men are not free, and development is stifled, whereas in a democracy, because thought and speech are not restricted, the greatest progress is witnessed. It is likewise true in the world of religion. When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable. Therefore, this is a blessed church because its pulpit is open to every religion, the ideals of which may be set forth with openness and freedom." The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "Abdu'l-Baha clearly advocated not only freedom of conscience but ********** [ bahai ] "Abdu'l-Baha clearly advocated not only freedom of conscience but [ bahai ] "Abdu'l-Baha clearly advocated not only freedom of conscience but also freedom of *speech* and a democratic society." Juan Cole, December 03, 1997 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Freedom2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative - ******** [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative - [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative - "These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants. So in the world of existence two persons unanimous in all grades [of thought] and all beliefs cannot be found." --Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... DEFINITIONS OF.... "Randy Burns" wrote in message news:dX0C8.1359$Sh.667@nwrddc01.gnilink.net... > > But what is the self? and what is the conscience? Dictionary definition of > conscience: > > 1. the sense or consciousness of the moral goodness or blameworthiness of > one's own conduct... > > 2. a faculty, power or principle enjoining good acts > > Self: > > The entire person of an individual. > > etc. > > I would contend that the "self" quoted by Baha'u'llah is not the > "conscience" of Doug Martin. The conscience is a small part of the Self, > where does it come from, how is it created, why does Doug Martin want to > snuff it out? > > Hmmm, good questions. Randy, Thank you so much for bringing to my attention the necessity of carefully defining our terms. I wonder what dictionary you're using? Some of the older dictionaries have the clearest definitions on many matters of the soul. Noah Webster's 1858 edition: "Internal or self-knowledge, or judgment of right and wrong; or the faculty, power, or principle within us, which decides on the lawfulness or unlawfulness of our own actions and affections, and instantly approves or condemns them. Conscience is called, by some writers, the *moral* sense, and considered as an original faculty of our nature." OED: "Inward knowledge, consciousness; inmost thought, mind. Internal conviction. Consciousness of right and wrong, moral sense. The sense of right and wrong as regards things for which one is responsible." Then there's Abdu'l-Baha: These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants. But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction [TN p.91] "If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts, it is very praiseworthy...." Abdu'l-Baha, SAQ, 215 ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... "Randy Burns" wrote in message news:fX0C8.1360$Sh.48@nwrddc01.gnilink.net... > Dear Karen > > I ask myself what Martin has against the individual conscience of man? It > seems to me that he wishes to deny the individual the right to even feel > himself guilty of an infraction without the approval of the Institutions. > Apparently to him no individual has the right to pronounce on his/her own > guilt, only a proper Baha'i Institution has that right. The individual will > lose all right of self identity in the Baha'i World Order, if Doug has his > way. Abdu'l-Baha: The more the consciences of human beings progress, the more free their hearts become, and the more glad their spirits become. In the religion of God there is freedom of thought, for no one can rule over the [individual s] conscience save God. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm > > "The result was to create in the minds of most Christians a vague > > assumption that, when the individual prays directly to God, he receives > > guidance through his private conscience. Many times, the promptings of > > conscience contradict the apparent meaning of Christian scriptures (as in > > the case of St. Paul's statements on celibacy) or the explicit teachings > of > > a particular church (as with race relationships). Increasingly, however, > > it is conscience which is regarded as the reliable guide, a guide which > has > > no objective check on it." > > I have to think that our idea of conscience (as he mentions here as a > reliable guide to conduct) is a pretty modern idea, late 19th century > perhaps. But possible you could trace this back to Luther's idea of the > "priesthood of all believers." In fact the modern idea of individual > freedom is said to first appear during the Reformation (at least in the > modern sense). > > What Doug Martin is saying would remove from humanity the right to think for > him/her self, without the consent of society (or read Baha'i Institutions). Abdu'l-Baha: In the religion of God there is freedom of thought, for no one can rule over the [individual s] conscience save God. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm > In general I think where individualism is implicit in Christianity is in the > idea that each Christian has a personal relationship with Jesus or God that > no one else can interfere with, but this personal relationship was not > something that ever caused the schisms or heresies in either the early days > or the latter days of that religion. I don't think this doctrine ever lead > to individual political freedoms or even religious freedoms of any kind. > > > "This system of belief has had many admirable results in the individual > > spiritual life. Its unrestrained influence on social history, however, > > reveals many limitations. It permitted the growth of the conviction not > > only that personal conscience is the ultimate authority in life, but also > > that personal freedom is the highest good. The rise of a democratic > > political philosophy and democratic processes in the West gave the final > > blessing to this doctrine of individualism. "Christianity" and "Democracy" > > in time blended in the public mind as one vaguely defined, but immensely > > influential popular cult of individualism, embracing people of all > > religious denominations. Such a cult differs in several important ways > > from the Teachings of Baha'u'llah". > > There may be a cult of "individualism" in Hollywood but I'm afraid it is not > something I've ever noticed combined with heavy duty Christianity of any > kind. > > What is intriguing is the general drift of the thoughts expressed here. Why > does the UHJ think that individualism is so bad? Baha'u'llah only condemned > extreme and outrageous behavior, He never condemns moderate and healthy > individualism or creativity. What is life without creativity? They have debased His Teachings into literal-minded fundamentalism that allows them to wield complete and absolute control over the individual, something which cannot be justified in the light of Baha'u'llah's own Writings. > Basically what Martin has always been after is a form of collectivism which > is pernicious to all humanity and is in complete opposition to the expressed > teachings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. Exactly. I couldn't agree more. "soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 9:04 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... uhj's justification for coercion to Maneck..... Karen, I had thought perhaps you were aware of some other statement regarding conscience. The letter to Maneck you cite is her old rag from the uhj that she has regularly dredged up for years to justify their fanatical views and doesn't add anything new to the discussion. My comments on it below: "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:udhfrcstjgrib0@corp.supernews.com... > > > -- > "The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice . . ." -- > Baha'u'llah > Bahai Faith wrote in message > news:ab67ve$fnoat$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message > > news:udd3787ql6j0f3@corp.supernews.com... > > > > > > There have also been remarks in more recent UHJ letters disparaging > > >the role of individual conscience. > > > > Karen, > > > > When you have a chance, could you quote those disparaging uhj letters? > > > > I'm sure I would not be alone in finding them interesting. > > Dear Fred, > > I was thinking of the following passage from the Feb. 8, 1998 letter to > Susan Maneck, which I'm sure she has quoted here before. I'm including the > whole context -- one the on hand they uphold freedom of conscience, then on > the other speak about how limited it is. There is again, in this passage > the disparagement of Christianity that we saw in the other quotes mentioned > here. Basically, the only real "freedom" that Baha'is have is the freedom to > leave the Faith. > > Love, Karen > ****************** > This brings us to the specific points raised in your email of 17 November > 1997. As you well understand, not only the right but also the responsibility > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Dr. Susan Stiles Maneck > U.S.A. 8 February 1998 > Page 3 > > ". . . of each believer to explore truth for himself or herself are > fundamental to the Baha'i teachings. This principle is an integral feature > of the coming of age of humankind, inseparable from the social > transformation to which Baha'u'llah is calling the peoples of the world. It > is as relevant to specifically scholarly activity as it is to the rest of > spiritual and intellectual life. Every human being is ultimately responsible > to God for the use which he or she makes of these possibilities; conscience > is never to be coerced, whether by other individuals or institutions. So false, given the uhj's incessant harassment and coercion of conscience, Dialogue, Cole, McKenny, Marshall, et al.... The double speak of a tyrant.... > Conscience, however, is not an unchangeable absolute. One dictionary > definition, although not covering all the usages of the term, presents the > common understanding of the word "conscience" as "the sense of right and > wrong as regards things for which one is responsible; the faculty or > principle which pronounces upon the moral quality of one's actions or > motives, approving the right and condemning the wrong". > > The functioning of one's conscience, then, depends upon one's > understanding of right and wrong; the conscience of one person may be > established upon a disinterested striving after truth and justice, while > that of another may rest on an unthinking predisposition to act in > accordance with that pattern of standards, principles and prohibitions which > is a product of his social environment. Conscience, therefore, can serve > either as a bulwark of an upright character or can represent an accumulation > of prejudices learned from one's forebears or absorbed from a limited social > code. Rather, "an accumulation of prejudices learned from" one's fellow fundamentalists, from the "limited social code" current among aparatchiks in Haifa, Wilmette, and elsewhere.... And no member of the Bahai Faith may speak up and say without the wrath of the power-hungry coming down on him or her.... More despicable double speak.... > A Baha'i recognizes that one aspect of his spiritual and intellectual > growth is to foster the development of his conscience in the light of divine > Revelation -- a Revelation which, in addition to providing a wealth of > spiritual and ethical principles, exhorts man "to free himself from idle > fancy and imitation, discern with the eye of oneness His glorious handiwork, > and look into all things with a searching eye". This process of development, > therefore, involves a clear-sighted examination of the conditions of the > world with both heart and mind. A Baha'i will understand that an upright > life is based upon observance of certain principles which stem from Divine > Revelation and which he recognizes as essential for the well-being of both > the individual and society. In order to uphold such principles, he knows > that, in certain cases, the voluntary submission of the promptings of his > own personal conscience to the decision of the majority is a conscientious > requirement, as in wholeheartedly accepting the majority decision of an > Assembly at the outcome of consultation. The majority can be wrong, secular or religious, or any combination thereof. Much of civilization has learned the bitter lesson of caution when assuming the majority knows best but not the tyrants who ride Carmel, digging their spurs into the souls of Baha'u'llah's subjects.... > In the discussion of wisdom in your email of 21 September 1997, you > observe that maybe "Baha'i academics all too often have not recognized that > to a great extent failure to exercise wisdom represents a failure of love." > The House of Justice agrees that the exercise of wisdom calls for a measure > of love and the development of a sensitive conscience. These, in turn, > involve not only devotion to a high standard of uprightness, but also > consideration of the effects of one's words and actions. > > A Baha'i's duty to pursue an unfettered search after truth should lead > him to understand the Teachings as an organic, logically coherent whole, > should cause him to examine his own ideas and motives, and should enable him > to see > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Dr. Susan Stiles Maneck > U.S.A. 8 February 1998 > Page 4 > > that adherence to the Covenant, to which he is a party, is not blind > imitation but conscious choice, freely made and freely followed. "The Covenant": I.e., their literal, intolerant, hateful interpretation of it, which they wield to coerce and silence anyone who reveres Abdu'l-Baha's unequivocal respect for moderate and sensible freedom of conscience. > In many of His utterances, `Abdu'l-Baha extols governments which uphold > freedom of conscience for their citizens. As can be seen from the context, > these statements refer to the freedom to follow the religion of one's > choice. In the original of a passage to which you refer in your email of 17 > November 1997, He gives the following analysis of freedom. > > > There are three types of freedom. The first is divine freedom, which is > one of the inherent attributes of the Creator for He is unconstrained in His > will, and no one can force Him to change His decree in any matter > whatsoever.... > The second is the political freedom of Europeans, which leaves the > individual free to do whatsoever he desires as long as his action does not > harm his neighbour. This is natural freedom, and its greatest expression is > seen in the animal world. Observe these birds and notice with what freedom > they live. However much man may try, he can never be as free as an animal, > because the existence of order acts as an impediment to freedom. > > The third freedom is that which is born of obedience to the laws and > ordinances of the Almighty. This is the freedom of the human world, where > man severs his affections from all things. When he does so, he becomes > immune to all hardship and sorrow. Wealth or material power will not deflect > him from moderation and fairness, neither will poverty or need inhibit him > from showing forth happiness and tranquillity. The more the conscience of > man develops, the more will his heart be free and his soul attain unto > happiness. In the religion of God, there is freedom of thought because God, > alone, controls the human conscience, but this freedom should not go beyond > courtesy. In the religion of God, there is no freedom of action outside the > law of God. Man may not transgress this law, even though no harm is > inflicted on one's neighbour. This is because the purpose of Divine law is > the education of all -- others as well as oneself -- and, in the sight of > God, the harm done to one individual or to his neighbour is the same and is > reprehensible in both cases. Hearts must possess the fear of God. Man should > endeavour to avoid that which is abhorrent unto God. Therefore, the freedom > that the laws of Europe offer to the individual does not exist in the law of > God. Freedom of thought should not transgress the bounds of courtesy, and > actions, likewise, should be governed by the fear of God and the desire to > seek His good pleasure. > > > Education of the individual Baha'i in the Divine law is one of the > duties of Spiritual Assemblies. In a letter to a National Assembly on 1 > March 1951, Shoghi Effendi wrote: > > The deepening and enrichment of the spiritual life of the individual > believer, his increasing comprehension of the essential verities > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Dr. Susan Stiles Maneck > U.S.A. 8 February 1998 > Page 5 > > > underlying this Faith, his training in its administrative processes, his > understanding of the fundamentals of the Covenants established by its Author > and the authorized Interpreter of its teachings, should be made the supreme > objectives of the national representatives responsible for the edification, > the progress and consolidation of these communities. "Training": i.e., coercing of conscience, their interpretation of it. > Such is the duty resting on the elected institutions of the Faith for > the promotion of the spiritual, moral and ethical lives of the individual > believers. Parallel with this, the Baha'i Faith upholds the freedom of > conscience which permits a person to follow his chosen religion: no one may > be compelled to become a Baha'i, or to remain a Baha'i if he conscientiously > wishes to leave the Faith. As to the thoughts of the Baha'is themselves -- > that is those who have chosen to follow the religion of Baha'u'llah -- the > institutions do not busy themselves with what individual believers think > unless those thoughts become expressed in actions which are inimical to the > basic principles and vital interests of the Faith. Unless anyone disagrees with the uhj's fanatical coercion of conscience, interpretation, and has the courage of conviction to say so publicly, the willingness to sacrifice themselves on the altar of service and obedience to Baha'u'llah, not the corrupted uhj.... > With regard to the accusation that to make such distinctions borders on > restriction of the freedom of speech, one should accept that civil society > has long recognized that utterance can metamorphose into behaviour, and has > taken steps to protect itself and its citizens against such behaviour when > it becomes socially destructive. Laws against sedition and hate-mongering > are examples that come readily to mind. I.e., the uhj has the right to suppress freedom of speech and conscience, and define out of existence what they are. More double speak. > > It will surely be clear to you from the above comments that the > categories of "issues of doctrinal heresy which must therefore be > suppressed" and "the imposition of orthodoxy on the Baha'i community", to > which you refer, are concepts essentially drawn from the study of > Christianity and are inapplicable to the far more complex interrelationships > and principles established by the Baha'i Faith." More subtle coercion and suppression of conscience according to their own self-serving, twisted interpretation of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 9:13 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... > And the Writings clearly say that our conscience is to > be left free. "Soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:udhf0is3lkkb0c@corp.supernews.com... > > > > > > I have to think that our idea of conscience (as he mentions here as a > > reliable guide to conduct) is a pretty modern idea, late 19th century > > perhaps. But possible you could trace this back to Luther's idea of the > > "priesthood of all believers." In fact the modern idea of individual > > freedom is said to first appear during the Reformation (at least in the > > modern sense). > > Dear Randy, > > Now, admittedly I'm no expert on Christian history, but from what I know > Martin's idea strikes me as being pretty kooky. If he is trying to blame > Christian sectarianism on the doctrine of "the Holy Spirit" he's got a few > centuries to wait until the Trinitarian idea became fixed. And the > mainstream church was adamantly opposed to too much individualism -- they > complained long and loud about the Gnostics who took their own visions as > inspiration from God, instead of submitting themselves to the Church > authorities. Certainly, the medieval church was not composed of > free-wheeling, anti-authoritarian individualists! I can only shake my head > at the notion that for individual conscience to be subordinated to an > outside authority is supposed to be some kind of progress -- it took a lot > of blood, sweat, and tears for minds and consciences to be freed in the > first place. Of course, a lot of Baha'is have the notion that now we have > an authority that really, really is infallible, so therefore we can trust > them and submit to them without any harm done to us or to society. Uh-huh. > > I think you're right about the Reformation -- after all, if all believers > have the capacity to read and interpret scriptures for themselves, that > implies that individual conscience is in operation. That's why Dave quoting > all these scriptures about submitting to the Will of God is such a hoot. > Naturally, if someone is a believer, one's conscience is informed by one's > beliefs and understanding of scripture. But what the individual perceives > as the "Will of God" is may not necessarily jive with what a religious > authority tells him it is.*That's* what the issue is -- not whether or not > it is desirable to submit to the Will of God, but who gets to decide what > the Will of God is. And the Writings clearly say that our conscience is to > be left free. > > Actually, if I remember right, Luther was aware of the sort of can of worms > his "priesthood of all believers" notion opened. If anybody can interpret > for themselves, then some are bound to interpret wrong. But the alternative > is even worse. Lots worse. > > Love, Karen > https://www.bacquet.tk > > > > > What Doug Martin is saying would remove from humanity the right to think > for > > him/her self, without the consent of society (or read Baha'i > Institutions). > > > > In general I think where individualism is implicit in Christianity is in > the > > idea that each Christian has a personal relationship with Jesus or God > that > > no one else can interfere with, but this personal relationship was not > > something that ever caused the schisms or heresies in either the early > days > > or the latter days of that religion. I don't think this doctrine ever > lead > > to individual political freedoms or even religious freedoms of any kind. > > > > > "This system of belief has had many admirable results in the individual > > > spiritual life. Its unrestrained influence on social history, however, > > > reveals many limitations. It permitted the growth of the conviction not > > > only that personal conscience is the ultimate authority in life, but > also > > > that personal freedom is the highest good. The rise of a democratic > > > political philosophy and democratic processes in the West gave the final > > > blessing to this doctrine of individualism. "Christianity" and > "Democracy" > > > in time blended in the public mind as one vaguely defined, but immensely > > > influential popular cult of individualism, embracing people of all > > > religious denominations. Such a cult differs in several important ways > > > from the Teachings of Baha'u'llah". > > > > There may be a cult of "individualism" in Hollywood but I'm afraid it is > not > > something I've ever noticed combined with heavy duty Christianity of any > > kind. > > > > What is intriguing is the general drift of the thoughts expressed here. > Why > > does the UHJ think that individualism is so bad? Baha'u'llah only > condemned > > extreme and outrageous behavior, He never condemns moderate and healthy > > individualism or creativity. What is life without creativity? > > > > Basically what Martin has always been after is a form of collectivism > which > > is pernicious to all humanity and is in complete opposition to the > expressed > > teachings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. > > > > Cheers, Randy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 9:39 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... uhj's justification for coercion to Maneck..... "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:udia8cqb5f6jad@corp.supernews.com... > > > I had thought perhaps you were aware of some other > > statement regarding conscience. The letter to Maneck > > you cite is her old rag from the uhj that she has regularly > > dredged up for years to justify their fanatical views and > > doesn't add anything new to the discussion. My comments > > on it below: > > Well, sorry Fred, to give you the same-old, same-old. I know I was pretty > appalled when I read this letter for the first time, and am somewhat amused > at how Susan trots it out from time to time in defense of the UHJ, seemingly > unaware of just how bad it makes them look. My original point was that the > UHJ,and at least two individuals on that body that we know of, are willing > to promote the idea that freedom of conscience is somehow an "un-Baha'i" > legacy of our Christian backgrounds. That's pretty scary. Scary, indeed. I agree. And a major part of the scariness is the manner in which such thinking is regularly hidden from the unsuspecting while an entirely different deceptive public image is cultivated by the cultists.... Fred ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Baha'i Principle of Progressive Revelation The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:jGdC8.2198$bK4.94769@news2.telusplanet.net... -- more... https://oneness-of-mankind.web-page.net ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 7:37 AM Subject: CAUTION - Non-bahais - CAUTION - Non-bahais - CAUTION - Non-bahais - CAUTION - Non-bahais - I caution you that appearances may be deceiving on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai. It cannot be ruled out that some of the most vociferous voices here are working on behalf of the bahai administration to create an atmosphere of vicious contention in order to discredit the views of others for unsuspecting outsiders, as well as to drive them away from investigating very deeply into what is taking place among bahais. I highly recommend Karen Bacquet's article in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal, to anyone interested in the bahai faith, as perhaps the best introduction to the many conflicts and injustices that have shakened the religion during the last few decades: "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html I also urge non-bahais to read some of the primary material on my and Professor Cole's websites and decide for themselves: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 9:40 AM Subject: Re: CAUTION - Non-bahais - CAUTION - Non-bahais - CAUTION - Non-bahais - OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." Further details in "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Freethought110" wrote in message news:newscache$lo0yvg$wvz1$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > Here's an objective opinion for you Elderkin, > > > https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html > > "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our > individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, > in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the > greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions > or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent > to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the > Faith." -Doug Martin > > -- > Freethought110 > > "Mark Elderkin" wrote in message > news:abir6l$1lvt$1@austar-news.austar.net.au... > > Fred........... that is a lot of bunk. Your continuous cross-posting and > > anoying spam does a discredit to those here who might actually have > > questions or concerns. You make these wild-ass accusations and never have > > anything to give it any credit. The only opinion you seem to think has any > > importance here....... is yourself and those who have decided to trash the > > Faith. Karen's article is just that......... It should be a noted concern > to > > those who would like independent information about the Faith should > realise > > that you are ex-Baha'is who is intent in damage rather than a presentation > > of objective opinions. > > M > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > > news:abgbgc$i7fff$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > > CAUTION - Non-bahais - > > > > > > I caution you that appearances may be deceiving on > > > talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai. It cannot be ruled > > > out that some of the most vociferous voices here are working > > > on behalf of the bahai administration to create an atmosphere > > > of vicious contention in order to discredit the views of others > > > for unsuspecting outsiders, as well as to drive them away from > > > investigating very deeply into what is taking place among bahais. > > > > > > I highly recommend Karen Bacquet's article in the American > > > Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal, to anyone interested > > > in the bahai faith, as perhaps the best introduction to the many > > > conflicts and injustices that have shakened the religion during > > > the last few decades: > > > > > > "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" > > > may be found on her website: > > > https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html > > > > > > I also urge non-bahais to read some of the primary material on > > > my and Professor Cole's websites and decide for themselves: > > > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > > > > > -- > > > Frederick Glaysher > > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 10:00 AM Subject: The Antinomies of My Soul.... A bahai fanatic posted: > https://homes.hypermart.net/ Should anyone be interested in the totality of my soul, here are a few of its other dimensions neglected by the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, in their weird attempts to malign and discredit.... https://fglaysher.com/ https://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~glaysher/index.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 11:14 AM Subject: Re: The Antinomies of My Soul.... The Antinomies of My Soul.... A bahai fanatic posted: > https://homes.hypermart.net/ Should anyone be interested in the totality of my soul, here are a few of its other dimensions neglected by the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, in their weird attempts to malign and discredit.... https://fglaysher.com/ https://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~glaysher/index.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 7:35 AM Subject: Who I Am *versus* Fundamentalist Slander, Backbiting, Scapegoating, etc. A bahai fanatic posted: > https://homes.hypermart.net/ Should anyone be interested in the totality of my soul, here are a few of its other dimensions neglected by the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, in their weird attempts to malign and discredit.... Frederick Glaysher, Poems, Essays, Reviews, https://fglaysher.com/ Our Glaysher Genealogy https://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~glaysher/index.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 7:58 AM Subject: Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice - "Dangerous Delusion from Christianity" = Individual Conscience Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj. Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "conscience") Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member - D. Martin Menu: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm Brief History of Douglas Martin, member of bahai uhj https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:13 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... "Juan Cole" wrote in message news:619f1452.0205121800.1796be2a@posting.google.com... > Hi, folks. I don't check this board too often, but I happened to, > tonight. > > The original discussion was more important than the one you've gotten > off on. For those new to this thread, I believe the jist of the discussion started here: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm > But I just did want to intervene to express outrage that Baha'u'llah's > writings were so wretchedly misused to attack the importance of > individual conscience. Baha'u'llah himself speaks of the centrality > of the latter. What do you think he means when he attacks blind > obedience and insists that justice consists of seeing things with your > own eyes. That's the individual conscience at work. It is called > d.ami:r and wujda:n in Arabic and Baha'u'llah has nothing but praise > for its working. `Abdu'l-Baha also praised it. Yes, "wretchedly misused." Fine phrase. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > The quotes condemning "self" by Baha'u'llah are not condemnations of > the individual conscience. The word for "self" in the original is > "nafs." The Muslim mystics spoke of various kinds of "self," good and > bad. The worst is an-nafs al-ammarah bi su', or the self that is at > the command of evil. It is, in other words, the self of carnal > passions, unbridled desires. That is the "self" Baha'u'llah > condemned. The word for *individual* would be quite different, as > would the word for conscience. Well, no room for distinctions among the > In fact, conscience is the exact opposite of the "self" condemned by > Baha'u'llah, since it is the working of ethical reasoning inside the > individual. > So, to quote Baha'u'llah condemning self and passion and to equate > that with > a condemnation of the individual's ethical conscience, is an absolute > travesty. The horrible thing is that there are Baha'is who read the > scriptures in this insane way, and maybe even a lot of them. > > Douglas Martin hates individual conscience because he is a cultist. > Cultists want to control people, and don't want any pesky objections > when they behave dictatorially. Conscience leads people to object when > they witness injustice. > > As for backbiting people, here's a beaut. In 1982 when I was a > pioneer in India, doing travel teaching for the Indian NSA and also > doing some translation work for the House of Justice, Doug Martin told > more than one person that he considered me "a covenant breaker." > These persons later became my friends and told me what Martin had > said. They are persons of absolute integrity, and I have no doubt > that they have spoken correctly. It is no accident that it was after > Martin got himself elected to the UHJ in 1993 that the attitude of the > House changed so dramatically toward Baha'i thinkers like myself, who > had earlier been encouraged, and we started receiving secret visits > from Martin's cronies threatening us with being declared CBs if we did > not fall silent. Martin has long had a cultic attitude, and now he is > in a position to implement it at the highest levels of the Baha'i > institutions. > > So, dear friends, not only have I been backbit, I've been turned in > the eyes of perhaps a majority of US Baha'is into a cartoon villain > whom it is perfectly alright to backbite in the most vicious way. And > it all started with Martin's viciousness and tyrannical impulses, his > narrow-minded fundamentalism, as far back as the early 1980s. > > cheers Juan Cole ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:26 AM Subject: ATTN AOL - Scientology & bahai faith - $8.6 million to resolve lawsuit Church of Scientology pays $8.6 million to resolve lawsuit (11-May-02) The Church of Scientology has agreed to pay a former member more than $8.6 million to resolve a lawsuit filed nearly 22 years ago. FULL TEXT AT https://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/05/11/scientology.suit.ap/index.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:37 AM Subject: Re: ATTN AOL - Scientology & bahai faith - $8.6 million to resolve lawsuit Subject: ATTN AOL Lawyers - Scientology $8.6 million to resolve lawsuit Date: 5/13/2002 8:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: Fglaysh12002 Message-id: <20020513083330.02565.00011509@mb-dh.aol.com> ATTN AOL Lawyers - Scientology $8.6 million to resolve lawsuit Please diligently investigate the issues involved here on these bahai message boards and the seriousness of the constitutional questions: Church of Scientology pays $8.6 million to resolve lawsuit (11-May-02) The Church of Scientology has agreed to pay a former member more than $8.6 million to resolve a lawsuit filed nearly 22 years ago. FULL TEXT AT https://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/05/11/scientology.suit.ap/index.html Frederick Glaysher www.google.com Search Engine: Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 6:50 AM Subject: Re: Individual conscience... "When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable." --Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Juan Cole" wrote in message news:619f1452.0205131027.5c6de4a1@posting.google.com... > Dave, these things are difficult to discuss in the abstract. > > Individual conscience (vujdan, damir) is ethical reasoning. > Revelation contains the ethics. Conscience is how you apply them in > your individual life. > > The more cult-like elements in the Baha'i faith want you to give up > your individual ability to reason ethically once you enter the faith. > Thus, if you see Baha'i officials repeatedly doing something wrong, > and you also see that appeals to the higher-ups are stonewalled so > that the wrongdoing continues, you are expected just to keep your > silence about it all. (Remind anyone of the pedophilia scandal in the > Roman Catholic Church?) > > Anytime any group of people tells you that 1) you are not allowed > publicly to criticize their power elite and 2) that you must give up > your individual ability to reason ethically and just fall lockstep > behind whatever the infallible leaders decide--then you are dealing > with a cult. > > Any time a person buys into propositions 1) and 2), he or she has > become a cultist. Any time he or she buys into all this and then > tries to hide the fact, or obscure it for others, or engage in > misdirection by launching stock accusations at anyone who won't go > along, then that person has him or herself become a cultist. That is > only one step away from the People's Temple in Guyana or the > Koreishites at Waco. Once someone gives up the right to use his or > her individual conscience, there is no reason not to drink the poison > coolaid, or not to set the children on fire. > > It is for this reason, to protect the Cause of God from slipping into > cultism, that Baha'u'llah and `Abdu'l-Baha so heavily praised seeing > with your own eyes and not with the eyes of others (i.e. not with the > eyes of the NSA or the house of justice), and that they so heavily > praised freedom of conscience and forbade Baha'i institutions to > interfere with it. > > Douglas Martin wants to repeal that part of the Revelation that > sanctifies the conscience of the individual believer. He wants to do > so because he gets more power and possibly more wealth that way. > Trying to repeal part of the Revelation for your own selfish purposes > is a form of treason to the Faith. > > cheers Juan > > cheers Juan ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:25 AM Subject: Re: Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice - "Dangerous Delusion from Christianity" = Individual Conscience Karen Bacquet commenting similarly on Doug Martin, Peter Khan, and Jane Faily: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Bacquet2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Ron House" wrote in message news:3CE31E8A.B68B891@usq.edu.au... > Freethought110 wrote: > > > > Ron, > > > > You once stated here (or was it talisman9) that Peter Khan said something > > similar to you. > > Indeed. I don't doubt at all that Doug Martin expressed sentiments along > the lines of those reported. I just doubt that he used those _exact_ > words in expressing them. In other words, whilst I think that criticism > of the general viewpoint is justified, I don't agree that it is valid to > make an argument that hinges on the precise words in the passage (unless > we can get verification that it was transcribed from a tape, thus > eliminating an important source of error). I know most commentary here > isn't doing that, but the one comment seemed to do so (to my mind, at > least). > > Likewise, I am prepared to testify in any court that Peter Khan > expressed that same viewpoint (very forcefully, in fact), but I cannot > testify to the precise words he used when he did so. > > For the record, the general thrust of Khan's statement was: > > 1) When you become a Baha'i, that is the end of your independent search > for truth; > > (shortly after, in response to a question on conscience:) > > 2) (Repeated the question, then responded) In the Baha'i Faith, the > writings are our guide, and the directions of the House take precedence > over our consciences. (Explained further at some length.) > > Now the above is ONLY the general thrust of the discussion; the words > used are mine, as this was two decades ago, except that I am close to > certain he used the phrase "end of your independent search for truth" or > something almost identical to it. That phrase stuck because it was quite > theatrical the way he did it, leaving it hanging there some seconds for > maximum shock value before proceeding. > > -- > Ron House house@usq.edu.au > https://www.sci.usq.edu.au/staff/house > "Every time you manage to close the door on Reality, > it comes in through the window." - (Unknown). ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS - If newcomers to talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai desire not to be bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS - If newcomers to talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai desire not to be deceived, it will require more than a passing glance at a few messages. I suggest you begin with the links below which provide a historical survey of the last several years of bahai censorship and then visit further my and Professor Cole's websites. Karen Bacquet's article in Cultic Studies Journal, cited below, is a particularly helpful introduction. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roll Call of Victims https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/RollCall.htm To the Universal House of Justice - July 24, 1998 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ72498.htm To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm The Bahai Technique ---- **Essential Reading** ---- Demonize, Discredit, Smear, Suppress, Scapegoat, Slander, Shun... etc.... https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm soc.religion.bahai - Brief Quotations Documenting Censorship https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb-bq.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, surveys the many incidents of bahai censorship that have taken place during the last few decades in "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Karen Bacquet, "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" published in AFF's Cultic Studies Journal: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." Further details about AFF: https://www.csj.org/aff/aff_about.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:38 AM Subject: WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - Those new to talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai might WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - Those new to talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai might want to consider that they have entered a psychological war zone, one in which bahai fundamentalists have been attempting for at least several years to portray many fellow bahais and non-bahais in exceedingly negative terms. A more than decade-long record of this psychological, spiritual battle may be quickly skimmed, or read to the degree of your interest, at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING - This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers: https://www.kalimat.com/ Compare Prof. Juan Cole's response to excerpts of this letter at https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm Three reviews of Cole's book, from different perspectives, may be found at Modernity and the Millennium https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/reviews-cole.htm For the use of similarly coercive tactics by the bahai administration, see Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email of 1997. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm For the uninformed, it should be noted, beforehand, that it has been alleged by a number of bahais and ex-bahais, that the uhj has apparently forced some couples to divorce in order to prove their loyalty and obedience and some family members to cease associating with siblings, children, and parents. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl3.htm The full text below also available at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ----------------- August 1999 Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX U.S.A. Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write as follows. A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of the Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your relationship with the Baha'i Faith. As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your actions would not again give cause for such intervention. It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of Justice has asked us to address. Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of Mr. XXXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 2 attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to foist this caricature of Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 3 the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with their purpose. The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the case with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 4 The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results"? The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents of this present letter. In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you have, alas, been pursuing. The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you face. With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: bahai - Roll Call of Victims - Roll Call of Honor - The many victims of bahai fundamentalists include Indiana University bahai - Roll Call of Victims - Roll Call of Honor - Anthony A. Lee, Editor of Kalimat Press, the latest victim whose story has come to light.... The many victims of bahai fundamentalists include Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman, Deborah Buckhorn, and Anthony A. Lee, Editor of Kalimat Press, the latest victim whose story has come to light.... Anthony A. Lee, Editor of Kalimat Press: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol6/salmuhj.htm Deborah Buckhorn, New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuitResponse.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AmicusC.htm OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat. (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." I urge the perceptive reader seeking to understand the bahai faith to consider the experience and views of the bahais and ex-bahais mentioned above. Many of their testimonies may be found on my bahai webpage below. Since bahai fundamentalists have always relied on their ability to operate one way in one country and another elsewhere and the Internet now no longer makes it possible, they have mounted a concerted campaign on Usenet to discredit and malign diverse voices. Their slandering me for "spamming" won't prevent perceptive people who even glance at the record from realizing what's really going on in their desperate attempt to prevent people in Israel, Iran, and elsewhere from knowing what is actually taking place in bahai cirlces around the world. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:40 AM Subject: American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal --- "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal I highly recommend Karen Bacquet's article in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal, to anyone interested in the bahai faith, as perhaps the best introduction to the many conflicts and injustices that have shakened the religion during the last few decades: "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---- "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." Further details about AFF: https://www.csj.org/aff/aff_about.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:41 AM Subject: Letter to the Editor - March 7, 2002 - Observer & Eccentric Newspapers - Oakland County, Michigan - Circulation 120,000. A Response to half-page Letter to the Editor - March 7, 2002 - Observer & Eccentric Newspapers - Oakland County, Michigan - Circulation 120,000. A Response to half-page Baha'i Ad. Feel free to use or customize this letter to respond to any local propaganda efforts by fundamentalists in your area since it has passed at least one editor's evaluation. (Third wealthest county in the nation.) In response to the paid half-page ad by my fellow Baha'is in your February 28 issue, which offers a website link "for more information," I believe Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's Department of History, has a webpage of extensive and disturbing documentation that anyone interested in the Baha'i Faith should be aware of: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm In his book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." For numerous other views in balance to the paid ad O&E ran, I also recommend the over 50 megabytes of documentation on my own website, The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Frederick Glaysher Rochester Hills [on page A10] ---- Appeared as O & E half-page page ad on February 28, 2002, on page A3: ---- The Destiny of America and the Promise of World Peace A Statement from the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' of the United States At this time of world turmoil, the United States Bahß' community offers a perspective on the destiny of America as the promoter of world peace. More than a hundred years ago, Bahß'u'llßh, the founder of the Bahß' Faith, addressing heads of state, proclaimed that the age of maturity for the entire human race had come. The unity of humankind was now to be established as the foundation of the great peace that would mark the highest stage in humanity's spiritual and social evolution. Revolutionary and world-shaking changes were therefore inevitable. The Bahß' writings state: The world is moving on. Its events are unfolding ominously and with bewildering rapidity. The whirlwind of its passions is swift and alarmingly violent. The New World is insensibly drawn into its vortex. . . . Dangers, undreamt of and unpredictable, threaten it both from within and from without. Its governments and peoples are being gradually enmeshed in the coils of the world's recurrent crises and fierce controversies. . . . The world is contracting into a neighborhood. America, willingly or unwillingly, must face and grapple with this new situation. For purposes of national security, let alone any humanitarian motive, she must assume the obligations imposed by this newly created neighborhood. Paradoxical as it may seem, her only hope of extricating herself from the perils gathering around her is to become entangled in that very web of international association which the Hand of an inscrutable Providence is weaving. The American nation, Bahß' s believe, will evolve through tests and trials to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership, a champion of justice and unity among all peoples and nations, and a powerful servant of the cause of everlasting peace. This is the peace promised by God in the sacred texts of the world's religions. Establishing peace is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace. Universal acceptance of the spiritual principle of the oneness of humankind is essential to any successful attempt to establish world peace. Racism, one of the most baneful and persistent evils, is a major barrier to peace. The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality of the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged, prerequisites of peace. The inordinate disparity between rich and poor keeps the world in a state of instability, preventing the achievement of peace. Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Religious strife, the cause of innumerable wars and conflicts throughout history, is a major obstacle to progress. The challenge facing the world's religious leaders is to contemplate, with hearts filled with compassion and the desire for truth, the plight of humanity, and to ask themselves whether they cannot, in humility before their God, submerge their theological differences in a great spirit of mutual forbearance that will enable them to work together for the advancement of human understanding and peace. Bahß' s pray, "May this American Democracy be the first nation to establish the foundation of international agreement. May it be the first nation to proclaim the unity of mankind. May it be the first to unfurl the standard of the Most Great Peace." During this hour of crisis, we affirm our abiding faith in the destiny of America. We know that the road to its destiny is long, thorny and tortuous, but we are confident that America will emerge from her trials undivided and undefeatable. ůNational Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' s of the United States For more information and for a free copy of the booklet "The Promise of World Peace" please visit our web site at Www.us.bahai.org or call us toll free at 1-800-22-UNITE Local Phone 248-737-4006 -- https://www.us.bahai.org/world_peace/amers_destiny.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:42 AM Subject: bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists --- Having observed the tactics of bahai fundamentalists for bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists Having observed the tactics of bahai fundamentalists for over twenty-five years, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always Slander, Demonize, Discredit, Shun, Ad Hominem, Smear, Scapegoat, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Silence, Harass, etc., etc., the individual.... All of which has become known as "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for uninformed non-bahais that the individual in question is unbalanced, aberrant, "spamming," a liar, crazy, disgruntled, reprobate, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject by shifting to the past and arguing over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses the "temporary measure" of "review," for over 80 years now, to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to discuss anything with them is simply a waste of time and energy. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of bahai fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts. My reposts are intended for the uninformed and naive, exactly what enrages the extremists among my fellow bahais. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how deceitful bahai fanatics have been and are willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record so that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai website. It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so many years.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:42 AM Subject: FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions for Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai - This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks. FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions for Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ People with only web access might want to use https://groups.google.com/ It offers reading and posting capabilities for people who can't directly access alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai. Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai An unmoderated Italian Bahai newgroup is now available: it.cultura.religioni.bahai If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly, I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg." Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting: https://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi tnum=0 David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai: https://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi tnum=3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below. Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?" ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdu'l-Baha: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and religious conscience. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.] Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?" ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here. (Three years later their NO votes are their only answer.) Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech andconscience?" ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum, the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai and the experience of TENS of THOUSANDS of Bahais and people who have left the Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai ---------------------------------------------------------------------- January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was submitted to news.announce.newgroups. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/1stRFD.htm Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO against talk.religion.bahai. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Towfiq.htm March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in effect more than a year and a half later. March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to 691 NO. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/1stRESULT.htm April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates alt.religion.bahai. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/arb.htm October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated newsgroups: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ1.htm November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA committee: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/archive.htm December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of Usenet interest polling: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ2.htm January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was submitted. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/2ndRFD.htm February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES to 65 NO. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/2ndRESULT.htm May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher that contain his signature file: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb23.htm September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL removes the TOS after considering both sides of the issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening him and the experience of others: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses and the name of the poster: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srbban.htm October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House and attempts to undermine the new support for the "neutral" RFD: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb67.htm December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the 3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/3rdRFD.htm December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck1.htm January 10, 1999: Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/3rdRESULT.htm It should be noted that talk.religion.bahai eventually passed despite of the opposition of Bahais. The annotated RESULT may be read at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/3rdRESULT.htm The annotated NO voters list may be read at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NOvoters3rd.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community, see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan, discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997": https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:43 AM Subject: soc.religion.bahai CENSORSHIP - "I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group." soc.religion.bahai CENSORSHIP - https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb.htm Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998: "I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb84.htm Ron House: "I think the following is a clear case of malicious rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of soc.religion.bahai." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb53.htm Timothy Mulligan: "(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those SRB moderators." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb59.htm RobertNik: "these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb54.htm Bruce Burrill: "What are Baha'i afraid of?" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb60.htm Zuteflute: "Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb50.htm YU ZIR: "But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to address." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb46.htm Matthew Cromer: "The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles which they agree with...." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb47.htm Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:"So many Bahais on these forumshave shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb77.htm Shakti3, December 4, 1998: "Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit, seeing the way these newsgroups operate." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Ex7.htm Harold Shinsato: "It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb33.htm Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998: "The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the controversy started, it has gotten worse." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb79.htm Laeterna: "To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was putting it mildly indeed." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/censored2.htm Robin Peters: "I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the face of consistent censorship." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb43.htm jgoldberg: "I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. " https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb57.htm Ruletherod, November 17, 1998: "Too much damage has already been done in the name and to the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies, linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You can't just blame it all on the critics." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb76.htm Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under soc.religion.bahai censorship. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb.htm -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:44 AM Subject: "dangerous delusion from Christianity" = Individual Conscience - Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj. Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "conscience") Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm Brief History of Douglas Martin, member of bahai uhj https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:45 AM Subject: bahai faith & its Influence on the United Nations 5/2002 --- To understand the influence of the bahai faith on the United Nations, bahai faith & its Influence on the United Nations 5/2002 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UNmenu.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship To understand the influence of the bahai faith on the United Nations, I suggest the reader might find it helpful to consider these documents in the following order: Doug Martin, member of the bahai universal house of justice on the United Nations: "In the highest circles of the UN, people are consulting on Baha'u'llah's issues! Baha'is coordinated the work of all the NGO's at the Millennial Summit. The permanent representative of the Baha'i International Community was the Chair. Then the BIC was called to represent all of Civil Society at the governmental Millennium Summit -- the only NGO to do so." {If interested in reading full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "UN" match case, several clicks into it)} Cf. Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm See then my messages on the bahai faith & the UN: uhj LIES to United Nations & US Government June 2000 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN.htm Bahais at United Nations Millennium Forum & Summit June 2000 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN2.htm Bahai international community Abuses its Access to UN MF Mailing List 4/2002 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/OneCountry.htm Note especially at the end that the bic abused its control over MFDiscuss@yahoo.com in order to suppress my informing other Forum members of its abuse. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- After reading ALL of the above, think carefully about the influence on the UN of someone like Doug Martin who holds such a fundamentalist interpretation of the bahai faith. Does the UN know the record of the bahai faith regarding freedom of conscience within its own ranks? I would find it very worrisome if it does. My guess is that bahais at the UN, such as Techeste Ahderom, co-chair of the Millennium Forum and the principal bahai representative to the United Nations, dismiss concerns whenever they are raised by anyone within the Organization, essentially participating in deception. Brief History of Douglas Martin Professor Juan Cole, University of Michigan https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 4:09 PM Subject: Re: MODERNITY AND THE MILLENNIUM (long) Three other reviews: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/reviews-cole.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Michael McKenny" wrote in message news:ac5k4m$eno$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > > MODERNITY AND THE MILLENNIUM, Juan R.I. Cole, Columbia University Press, > New York, 1998. > > This absorbing work examines the emergence deeply within the 19th Century > Islamic world of a universalist movement aware of the modern thought of > the contemporary West, assessing and expressing this in familiar terms. > > The Introduction (pp. 1-15) begins by contrasting absolutist rule, unequal > status and censored thought of pre-modern life with the rule of law, > individual freedom, and scientific enquiry forming the foundations of > modern economic, technological and administrative developments. It > proceeds to comments of the book's five main themes: religious liberty, > political constitutionalism, nationalism and feminism. It addresses > Western assumptions: > > Yet to posit the Middle East or Islamic culture as intrinsically > antimodern is to commit two fallacies of essentialism, implying somehow > that modernity is a unified phenomenon and that there is a single, > civilizational Muslim or Middle Eastern response to it. p. 9 > > The reader is reminded that there was influence both ways in the encounter > of East and West. The introduction then closes by underlining the book's > focus of examining the thought of Baha'u'llah as a response to the initial > wave of modernity in the Middle East. > > Chapter One, "Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State" (pp. > 17-47). looks at changing attitudes on this topic in the West, at > traditional Islamic thought, and at the views of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l > Baha. An awareness of the diversity of human views, even within dictated > conformity is conveyed. > > The mixing of state making with religion making had its successes, of > course, but these were seldom total. English Catholics, French > Huguenots, Ottomon Shiites, and Iranian Sunnis continued to exist, > along with a host of other sectarian movements, despite the best > efforts of government officials to establish religious monopolies in > their territory. The state could never truly dictate the consciences of > human beings, succeeding only in imposing a broad umbrella of outward > conformity (especially in the cities) and a fear of speaking one's mind > that impeded the progress of rational thought and scientific discovery. > pp. 18-19 > > There is a mention of the differing concepts of church and state within > Sunni and Shiite Islam, of the influence of Mongol concepts of rulership > in later states. > > In these later empires the ruler issued laws and regulations that > governed the functioning of the state and bureaucracy. But other sorts > of law, such as that governing personal status, inheritance, and > commerce, remained the purview of Muslim clerical judges (qadis) on the > state payroll. Here we have not a separation of religion and state at > all but a differentiation within the state of civil and religious > functions, insofar as religious officers were appointed and paid by the > state and performed their duties on its behalf. p. 22 > > There is mention of the Bab who claimed to be the returned Imam, of his > execution and of the repression of his movement. > > After the Bab's death a number of Babi leaders and sects grew up. Some > were antinomian, declaring all laws and restraints on behavior > abolished, whereas others looked to the Bab's holy book, the Bayan, for > guidance. Some followed one or another prominent disciple of the Bab, > though by 1852 most of these were dead. p. 27 > > There is reference to Baha'u'llah's claim to succession and his views, as > well as those of his son, on the central theme of this chapter. > > Baha'u'llah is in these passages making an argument for religious > liberty and equal rights for all citizens, based upon the normative > foundations of Iranian monarchy...Once he reached Akka Baha'u'llah on > numerous occassions made it quite clear that he and his religion > accepted the separation of church and state. p. 34 > > Chapter Two, "Baha'u'llah and Ottoman Constitutionalism" (pp. 49-77), > begins by mentioning the impact of modernity on absolute monarchies and > the increasing power of the modern state. It looks at the introduction of > constitutionalism into the Islamic world, and the complex position of > Baha'u'llah on this issue. There's the item that Sadik Effendi, an Ottoman > clergyman, had preached against the Sultan and had been exiled at the turn > of 1868/1869 to Akka where he likely interacted with Baha'is. There's > reference to Baha'u'llah sending letters to rulers, to his view that > absolute monarchy will die out and to his call for constitutional > monarchy. Baha'u'llah called for political liberty, conscious of the > excesses of the French Revolution, and stating the need for balance. > > Clearly, Baha'u'llah approved of political liberty as manifested in > democratic institutions, but not of anti-religious libertinism (the > other connotation of burriyah in nineteenth century Arabic). p. 66 > > In addition individuals had responsibilities. > > The chapter proceeds to examine the interaction in the 1870s of Baha'is > and Young Ottomans. Baha'u'llah was in correspondence with Ebuzzia > Teufik, Namik Kemal was a friend of Mishkin Qalam and Nuri Bey and Hakki > Effendi were exiles in Akka fond of the Baha'is. > > Hakki Effendi paints a vivid picture of the Baha'is as cosmopolitan > intellectuals who had their children tutored in European languages and > took a keen interest in the international press. p. 69 > > There is a brief survey of the Ottoman political scene and the career of > Midhat Pasha, who as governor of Syria asked Abdu'l Baha to meet him, and > earlier as Minister of War had helped depose Sultan Abdulaziz. Then > there's a return to Baha'u'llah's condemnation of absolute monarchy. > > Here he bestows a rationale on popular sovereignty, grounding it in > universal reason. This privileging of rationality might seem strange > coming from a prophet, except if we remember that Baha'u'llah had > renounced claims for his religion upon civil governance, where he > expected instead a communicative rationality he called "consultation" > to be the mode of operation. And here he grounds democratic > consultation in human reason. p. 73 > > Chapter Three (pp. 79-108) considers Iranian political reform. It looks > at Abdu'l Baha's SECRET OF DIVINE CIVILIZATION as well as the > parliamentary views of Fath-'Ali Akhunzadeh and the opinions of other > reform-minded Persians. Beyond representative government, Abdu'l Baha > called for economic development and eliminating poverty. And: > > He calls for a reform of the curriculum of Iran's schools and > seminaries, so that more practical subjects would be stressed in the > place of theology and metaphysics. Universal education should be > provided; intellectuals should be free to publish books and articles > that contain suggestions for improving the public welfare. An educated > public opinion should be encouraged. p. p. 85 > > Next comes an examination of Baha'u'llah's encouragement of Baha'is to > conduct their own community affairs by consultation, his personal > attention to the care of indigent Baha'is and his setting up and > delineating the jurisdiction of the house of justice. There is some > consideration of technical terms, such as millat ("bounded religious > community"p. 96) and umur-i siyasiyyih ("the imposition of sanctions" > p. 96) as well as the use of mulham ("inspired" p. 96). > > Baha'u'llah never used the word ma'sum, or sinless, or infallible to > describe these institutions and appears to have seen them more as > instruments of spiritual republicanism than as inerrant centers of > unchallengable dicta. p. 96 > > The point is made that such a focus on group leadership in the Baha'i > community contrasted with the Shiite view of a single clergyman issuing > decrees. There's then a look at the great civil unrest occasioned by the > Shah's granting of the tobacco concession to a foreigner. The Shah later > rescinded the concession, but the Englishman was paid, perhaps > excessively, for his loss. A spectrum of Baha'i and general Iranian views > on reforms and the means thereto is presented. It is mentioned that the > official Baha'i opposition to adherents involving themselves in politics > does not come from Baha'u'llah, and in his lifetime there were Baha'is in > political positions. > > Chapter Four, "Disciplining the State" (pp. 109-138), begins with > Baha'u'llah's words on this theme to Edward Brown in 1890, examines the > Islamic concept of jihad, the broad minded views of the Mughal emperor > Akbar, including his concept of emperor as "guarantor of universal peace > (sulh-i kull)" and returns to Baha'u'llah's promotion of peace and his > prohibition of jihad. Next it surveys European thought on international > authority and peace from Emeric Cruce in the early 17th Century to > Saint-Simon and his followers in the 19th. It mentions Rousseau's > reference to such thinkers and concepts, significant because Rousseau was > widely read and translated in the Middle East. > > It would be fruitless to search for a single conduit of knowledge about > the later peace groups and their ideas into the Ottoman Empire. > Nineteenth-century Middle Eastern political figures and intellectuals > were keen observers of Europe, reading European books and newspapers, > translating selections from both for the local press, and discussing > developments at cultural evenings in their homes. The tradition of > European peace thought was by the mid-nineteenth century a > pan-Mediterranean one, and the network of intellectuals, statesmen and > expatriote Europeans in which Baha'u'llah moved was aware of the issues > it raised. p. 124 > > There follows Baha'u'llah's call for collective security, suggestive of > the Crimean system and of calls for an international congress by > Baha'u'llah and by Napoleon III. In 1898 Tsar Nicholas II succeeded in > having such a congress held, although participants failed to set up a > means for international arbitration. Next comes a look at education as an > effective method of inculcating an awareness of identity as members of > humanity and transcending aggressive and divisive actions. And, there's a > look at the growth of European imperialism, with some details concerning > its impact on the Islamic world, and Baha'u'llah's denunciation of > imperialism and militarism. > > Chapter Five, "The Earth is But One Country" (pp. 137-161), begins by > looking at 19th Century concepts of the nation and current awareness (e.g. > modern genetics) challenging its assumptions. Also, > > A consideration of the state leads us to a recognition of the violence > and coercion inherent in nation making. The state must subdue and > encompass the peasants, often with much bloodshed, or must reorganize > them into estates, or collectives, or must delegate such disciplining > of their imaginations to big landlords and private property law. Gory > peasant struggles against a local landed elite or against a colonial > state have often figured largely in their accession to a nationalist > consciousness. Through conscripting peasants into a national army and > casting them against a foreign power, as well, the state employed > massive violence to constitute them as a nation. p. 145 > > Among nationalist influences in 19th Century Persia was the view that > Islam was introduced by barbarians to the detriment of the civilization of > the homeland. Baha'u'llah encouraged a transcendence of particularism, as > had the great mystic Rumi. This is considered in the sphere of religion > where Baha'u'llah abolished the concept of ritual uncleanness of > unbelievers and urged awareness of the varying valid perceptions of > different humans. Baha'u'llah's concept of progressive revelation, > validating the prophets and religions of the past, is mentioned. > > The Baha'i religion is therefore in his view only an essential > restatement of the timeless truths embodied in past religions, along > with a reformation of religious law and ideals so as to bring them into > accord with the needs of a humanity verging on the creation of the > first global civilization. p. 153 > > There comes a fascinating consideration of 19th Century states focusing on > national standardized languages and of Baha'u'llah's position that a > universal auxiliary language be chosen and taught in all the schools of > the planet to foster global understanding and world peace. > > Chapter Six, "Women Are As Men" (pp. 163-187), looks at the milieu of > reformist ideas on the role and rights of women. > > The new models of women's behavior arose from many sources. Accounts of > Western women appeared in Middle Eastern periodicals and books, as did > arguments for reform of women's position in Muslim societies. Some > changes were brought about for practical reasons by middle- and upper- > class Iranian families moving away from semifeudal styles of life to > more "modern," often bourgois ones. p. 163 > > There is mention of Baha'u'llah's sometimes using feminine imagery in > connection with the divine, of his support for the powerful Babi feminist > Tahirih, of the significant role played by women in the early history of > the Baha'i Faith, of Baha'u'llah's extensive correspondence with female > believers, of the improved, though still unequal, status of women in > Baha'u'llah's legal code, as contrasted with the Koran, and of his strong > statements in support of concept of gender equality, including that > forming the title of the chapter. > > The issue of the reservation of the Baha'i Houses of Justice for men, so > poignantly at the heart of early 21st Century Baha'i life, is not absent > from the chapter. It seems evident that humanity cannot achieve harmonious > agreement that equality and women transcending male domination mean an all > male Universal House of Justice. The relevant material from the period > covered by this work is outlined. > > The Conclusion (pp. 189-197) begins by underlining the diversity of Islam > and its vigorous consideration, overthe last two centuries, of modernity. > It proceeds to the Baha'i Faith emerging in this milieu and conscious of > both beneficial and constraining aspects of modernity. Hence, Bahai's > sought to avoid the excesses of nationalism (war, colonialism, suppression > of religion), and of socially irresponsible individualism (extremes of > wealth, expropriation of peasants' land, famine), seeking the balanced > utopian realism of enhanced individual rights within an inclusive and > socially concerned global community. > > While it is hoped this review provides some exposure to the contents of > this first academic book-length treatment of the Baha'i prophet, this > reviewer honestly feels that anyone desiring a real appreciation of such > material should realize the book itself is indespensible. > > > -- > "My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard." > (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2) > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: WHO I AM - VERSUS - Ad hominem, slander, demonize, scapegoat, shun... etc.... A bahai fanatic posted: > https://homes.hypermart.net/ Should anyone be interested in the totality of my soul, here are a few of its other dimensions neglected by the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, in their weird attempts to malign and discredit.... Frederick Glaysher, Poems, Essays, Reviews, https://fglaysher.com/ Our Glaysher Genealogy https://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~glaysher/index.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:36 AM Subject: CAUTION - Non-bahais - I caution you that appearances may be deceiving on CAUTION - Non-bahais - I caution you that appearances may be deceiving on talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai. It cannot be ruled out that some of the most vociferous voices here are working on behalf of the bahai administration to create an atmosphere of vicious contention in order to discredit the views of others for unsuspecting outsiders, as well as to drive them away from investigating very deeply into what is taking place among bahais. I highly recommend Karen Bacquet's article in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal, to anyone interested in the bahai faith, as perhaps the best introduction to the many conflicts and injustices that have shakened the religion during the last few decades: "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html I also urge non-bahais to read some of the primary material on my and Professor Cole's websites and decide for themselves: "Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997" https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:37 AM Subject: bahai - Terrorism & OFF- ONline Stalking - I see *little* difference between the basic underlying fanaticism bahai - Terrorism & OFF- ONline Stalking - After twenty-five years as a member of the bahai faith, I see *little* difference between the basic underlying fanaticism of the perpetrators of the WTC terrorist attack and the fundamentalism of the worst elements among my fellow bahais. I cite Dave Fiorito's intolerant, threatening, hateful post as further EVIDENCE, along with much of the documentation on my website. https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.g oogle.com&output=gplain In my view, only the uhj can begin to remedy this situation by abolishing the censorship of "review" and ceasing to interpret out of existence of the moderate and liberal Teachings on free speech and conscience, thereby by setting a new direction and tone for the faith. I consider it my duty, as a bahai and otherwise, to inform my fellow believers and citizens of how grave matters truly stand within what purports to be Baha'u'llah's religion. Some of the evidence may be found at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/hate.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/CHarassment.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/BahaiThreatsLawsuit.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/BahaiAttacksonme.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Ex.htm See Karen Bacquet's article published in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal to understand what is really taking place now on AOL's message boards: Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" may be found on her website: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:38 AM Subject: bahai - FREE - Download My Entire Website: BahaiCensorship2001.Zip 18 megabytes bahai - FREE - Download My Entire Website: BahaiCensorship2001.Zip 18 megabytes zipped - 12/31/2001 Includes All Archives https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archive.htm BahaiCensorship2001CD version! 23 megabytes zipped 1/1/2002 https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archive.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:39 AM Subject: Baha'u'llah is the Prophet of God for mankind in this day - I have never repudiated my belief in Baha'u'llah nor the Baha'u'llah is the Prophet of God for mankind in this day - and age. He Himself laid the foundation for the Universal House of Justice, hampered, thank God, though it be, by the loss of the Guardian. I trust that, in the long run of history, He will not leave his institution to itself but will lead it back, through perhaps the compelling Vision of his Writings and the devoted consciences of his followers, to its humble, modest, and balanced role as his legislative body. I have never repudiated my belief in Baha'u'llah nor the legitimacy of his institutions. That some benighted individual bahais have temporarily distorted the bahai faith into a hideous form of fanaticism and fundamentalism does not negate the Truth of his Revelation and its saving grace for this nihilistic desert. https://fglaysher.com/LettersAmD1989-1994.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:39 AM Subject: bahai - Three Messages to bahai Taliban - Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice bahai - Three Messages to bahai Taliban - March 31, 1997 The Universal House of Justice of the Bahais of the World Haifa, Israel Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice: After careful reflection and prayer for the past few days, I've decided that open public discussion and knowledge are more important than my own status as a Bahai. I have been a Bahai for more than twenty years, since 1976. I became a Bahai by reading almost every single Bahai book published at the time. Given my background as a Catholic and poet, I was deeply moved by the beauty and profundity of the Bahai Writings. As a young person, I spent two months travel teaching throughout Michigan with several other youthful, innocent Bahais. Like many, I have sacrificed financially to contribute to the Bahai Faith. I pioneered for a year and a half in Japan, for two years on an American Indian reservation, and have travel taught in China. The spiritual profundity of the Bahai vision, as reflected in the work of the African-American poet Robert Hayden, inspired me to study at the University of Michigan under him and to spend considerable time and labor editing his collected poems and prose for Liveright and the University of Michigan Press. I have published two essays in the Bahai magazine World Order and spent more time than I can remember at Bahai summer camps, workshops, and deepenings. Throughout all my varied Bahai experience, I have loved the Figures and Teachings of the Faith even as the conviction has grown that all information and discussion in the Bahai Faith is subtly manipulated, controlled, and distorted for the "good of the Faith." There seems to be a pervasive, rigid control of all thought, ideas, and information that calls into question the motives of the individuals in power in the Bahai Administration. As a published writer and former college and university instructor of rhetoric and literature for over ten years, I believe the whole process of "review" has become a complete farce and disgrace to the Bahai Faith and is suggestive of the worst censorship under the most repressive regimes, religious or secular, of historical experience. If one truly wishes to understand why many Bahais, both highly educated and others, leave the Bahai Faith or become "inactive" and withdraw into silence and uninvolvement with the religion, one need only to look objectively at what seems to be the oppressive and coercive methods of people in the Bahai Administration itself to find the answer. My experiencing of these same methods of censorship and distortion on soc.religion.bahai proved to be the last intolerable straw. My attempt to form an unmoderated newsgroup on the Internet that no one could manipulate and censor has a long experience of Bahai tyranny in the background. The resorting to deceit and back-channel communication by the moderators of soc.religion.bahai and others naively believing they're working for the benefit of the Bahai Faith by campaigning for 691 unethical NO votes on talk.religion.bahai further proves the pervasive acceptance of disreputable tactics by Bahais in their attempt to maintain a stranglehold over all thought and discussion. Recently, more than ever, I've often recalled the words to me in private several times of Robert Hayden, the only Bahai to be appointed Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress: "Why I continue to have anything to do with the Bahai Faith, I do not know, I do not know." I myself no longer know. I suppose I hope that the oppressive, coercive methods that have come to be accepted and justified in the Bahai Administration, demonstrated for instance in the crushing of the magazine Dialogue, the incidents surrounding the Bahai Encyclopedia, the listserv Talisman I, and the continuingly crude, unreadable propoganda vehicle of the American Bahai, might yet be put aside in favor of the beautiful vision of Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha for freedom of religious conscience and belief and a humane, tolerant universalism. I fear that all too often the religious totalitarianism of Baha'u'llah's fanatical homeland has seeped into every nook and cranny of His religion, smothering out the free light of the human soul and hamstringing His Administration. It was with the bitterest of feelings that I observed some time ago the Bahai exhibition, a deceitful propaganda event really, on freedom of religious conscience and belief sponsored by the National Spiritual Assembly in the rotunda of the Capitol in Washington, D.C., so far in reality from the truth was it, so misled, trusting, and uninformed were the Congressmen of my country.... If censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith, I would like to know what passages of the Bahai Writings support it and what are the "rules," if you will, of Bahai censorship. It seems to me that censorship pervades the Bahai Faith so thoroughly that some Bahais regularly use it as a method of intimidation and silencing of anyone with an unconventional opinion by accusing the individual of being a covenant breaker. This tactic was used against me by at least three Bahais during the discussion period for talk.religion.bahai and tacitly condoned by the moderators and others. I include, at the end, a threatening, coercive email message I received on March 27, 1997, from Mr. Hoda Mahmoudi, Auxiliary Board Member for Michigan, at a crucial juncture of the discussion and voting for talk.religion.bahai and would like an explanation of his motives. I, and perhaps the rest of the world, would greatly appreciate evidence that there are not now nine ayatollahs residing in Israel on Mt Carmel. Respectfully, Frederick Glaysher ------------- bahai- Two Messages to bahai Taliban --------------------------------------------------------------- This file contains two messages: "to uhj 12-10-99," "to uhj 7-24-1998": From: Patrick Henry Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:33 AM Given the uhj's oppressive tactics and violation of the human rights of Linda and John Walbridge, Stephen Scholl, other editors of the Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Juan Cole, Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff who resigned, and so on, and so on, and so on.... All the victims documented on my website.... I hesitate to put the uhj above any reprehensible act.... including conspiracy to murder Dr. Daniel Jordan. I have been a member of the Bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my website. I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. Anything I have ever said is a matter of the sanctity of my individual God-given conscience that both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha claimed would never be violated in their religion. I shall "cc" this message to the uhj so that they hear from me directly on the matter. I would consider it an honor to be one of its official victims; indeed, the highest spiritual achievement of my Bahai life, defending Baha'u'llah'sTeachings from the fanaticism that has overwhelmed and hamstrung his Revelation. -- Frederick Glaysher.... "Give me liberty or give me death!" The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (Confirmation of receipt by the uhj of the message above.)From: Incoming Electronic Communication Operations Subject: Your Message Has Been Received... Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 5:36 AM Dear Friend, This is an automated acknowledgement. Your message regarding: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed has been received at the Baha'i World Centre. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Henry patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com To: UHJ ; Letters to Editor ; bahai-faith @ makelist.com Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998 Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM July 24,1998 Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice: As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community." The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media, always courting the President and other members of the government, has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997, available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals, Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within the Bahai community and administration. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more than ayear and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat twice now, along with thecollusion of other Bahais, the creation of an unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under Bahai-Discuss Archives. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/BCCAmenu.htm Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding talk.religion.bahai. The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai administration and perhaps the institutions themselves. I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if you will, of Bahai censorship? -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Further details on Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Mahmoudi.htm David Langness on Hoda Mahmoudi https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Langness.htm Paul Dodenhoff on Mahmoudi https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb95.htm -------- >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:45:46 -0500 >To: FG@hotmail.com >From: Hoda Mahmoudi >Dear Mr. Glaysher: > >I have been reading your e-mail postings recently. I would like to speak >with you by phone about some of your throughts and opinions regarding >matters relevant to the Baha'i Faith. As an Auxiliary Board members for >Michigan, I am always interested in issues which relate to individual >spiritual responsibility and the Baha'i Faith's principle of unity. My >phone number is 616/789-0590. > >Hope to hear from you soon. > >Hoda > > > > > >Hoda Mahmoudi, Ph.D. >Associate Vice President for Academic Affairs >Olivet College >Olivet, MI 49076 >616/749-7614 --------------------------------------------------------------- This file contains two messages: "to uhj 12-10-99," "to uhj 7-24-1998": From: Patrick Henry Subject: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:33 AM Given the uhj's oppressive tactics and violation of the human rights of Linda and John Walbridge, Stephen Scholl, other editors of the Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Juan Cole, Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff who resigned, and so on, and so on, and so on.... All the victims documented on my website.... I hesitate to put the uhj above any reprehensible act.... including conspiracy to murder Dr. Daniel Jordan. I have been a member of the Bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my website. I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. Anything I have ever said is a matter of the sanctity of my individual God-given conscience that both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha claimed would never be violated in their religion. I shall "cc" this message to the uhj so that they hear from me directly on the matter. I would consider it an honor to be one of its official victims; indeed, the highest spiritual achievement of my Bahai life, defending Baha'u'llah'sTeachings from the fanaticism that has overwhelmed and hamstrung his Revelation. -- Frederick Glaysher.... "Give me liberty or give me death!" The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (Confirmation of receipt by the uhj of the message above.)From: Incoming Electronic Communication Operations Subject: Your Message Has Been Received... Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 5:36 AM Dear Friend, This is an automated acknowledgement. Your message regarding: Re: Fred's Baha'i Membership Could Not Confirmed has been received at the Baha'i World Centre. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Henry patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com To: UHJ ; Letters to Editor ; bahai-faith @ makelist.com Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998 Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM July 24,1998 Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice: As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community." The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media, always courting the President and other members of the government, has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997, available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals, Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within the Bahai community and administration. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more than ayear and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat twice now, along with thecollusion of other Bahais, the creation of an unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under Bahai-Discuss Archives. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/BCCAmenu.htm Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding talk.religion.bahai. The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai administration and perhaps the institutions themselves. I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if you will, of Bahai censorship? -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:40 AM Subject: Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing - Despite the slander of many fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, I have been a member of the bahai faith since 1976. My ID Card may be found on my main bahai page. I have never been contacted by the uhj or any of its underlings to the contrary. The reason the uhj allows and encourages fundamentalists among my fellow bahais to backbite and slander me on talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai, AOL, BeliefNet, and elsewhere may be discovered in the four messages below: To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm To the Universal House of Justice - July 24, 1998 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ72498.htm To uhj 12-10-1999 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/uhj12-10-99.htm Open Petition for Baha'i Reformation February 8, 2001 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Reformation.htm My Request Not to Receive the American Bahai 1996 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/nsa1996.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:41 AM Subject: bahai - "Please remove my name and address from your mailing list." - In 1996 my request to the circulation department for the American Bahai bahai - "Please remove my name and address from your mailing list." - In 1996 my request to the circulation department for the American Bahai, repeated twice and perhaps a third time, read, "Please remove my name and address from your mailing list." I had torn off the preprinted address change label regularly published on the back page of the American Bahai and mailed it into the address given for subscription changes. I asked for nothing other than my name and address to be removed from the mailing list--no gloss, no explanation, no complaint, no threat, etc.... Dermod Ryder's speculation that willingness to receive the American Bahai has become compulsory should give pause.... Again, note well, I used the address on the back of the American Bahai given specifically for handling subscription addresses. I did not write the nsa, its secretary, etc. My communication was limited to the simplest of requests: remove my name and address from your mailing list. Not a word or suggestion about withdrawing from the Bahai Faith, nor any criticism of it whatsoever, real nor implied. I conveyed my wishes to the proper address, as announced in the American Bahai itself. That I received a response back from an entirely different address speaks volumes, as they say. After six years, I believe the time is now right to release it publicly. I've scanned the letter so others might read the original. I am not about to accept the slander and backbiting of fanatics and fundamentalists nor allow them to provoke me into one action or another. I prefer the facts: Again, I declared my belief in Baha'u'llah in 1976 and notified the nsa, who sent me back the declaration card available on my homepage. I have never notified them otherwise. They, as distinguished from liars and sycophants online, have never notified me to the contrary. Scanned orignials at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/nsa1996.htm The other two letters were related to the Detroit local spiritual assembly and its junk mail. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:41 AM Subject: bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - I would advise you to be careful about any meetings, calls or bahai - Hoda Mahmoudi - Coercion of Conscience - Notice first that Dave Fiorito's distortions during August of 2001 didn't work so enter Maneck in the fall of 2001.... To whose claims I ask, if a letter or message had been sent by me to Hoda Mahmoudi, auxiliary board member, why and how would Maneck know anything about it? The Mahmoudi message was sent to me the very morning of the day that the first voting period for talk.religion.bahai ended and the RESULTS was posted, when over 600 fundamentalists followed the advice of fanatic Mark Towfiq and others to oppose free speech and open discussion. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Towfiq.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/1stRESULT.htm If a letter was sent to Mahoudi, it addressed only that context. It's a well known fact that Maneck is Gharidian's sycophant. If she has been given a letter intended for the context of Hoda Mahmoudi's interferring in the free and unfettered voting for talk.religion.bahai, thereby violating the very Words of Abdu'l-Baha extolling freedom of speech and conscience and which led me to appeal to the uhj for an explanation of Mahmoudi's deceitful interference, let her post a copy of it on talk.religion.bahai, though it is tantamount to backbiting and further slander, in my opinion, to distort a communication in one context to fit the evil designs of a corrupted fundamentalist administration in another. See Mahmoudi's deceitfully sugarcoated, intimidating letter at the bottom of the link below. Note that Mahmoudi never asked to meet with me but to telephone her. The other claims along these lines are false, i.e., that if a letter or message was sent to Mahmoudi it was posted to Usenet. Further note that the administration is definitely interferring in free speech and conscience here on talk.religion.bahai and other online venues through their various sycophants in contradistinction to Abdu'l-Baha's elevating vision. To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm To the Universal House of Justice - July 24, 1998 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ72498.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/uhj12-10-99.htm I reiterate that I am under no obligation to believe the claims of vulgar liars and slanderous pseudo-academicians distorting past events and communications to fit a now different agenda. https://groups.google.com/groups?selm=f0853486.0109141001.2fd2b8c%40posting.g oogle.com&output=gplain I notified the nsa of my declaration of belief in Baha'u'llah in 1976. They acknowledged my declaration by sending me back the ID card available for viewing on my homepage and by accepting monetary contributions from me for years, not to mention many personal sacrifices. Further details of my participation in the bahai faith, in sundry ways, may be found in my uhj letters also accessible from my homepage. If the nsa has unilaterally changed my status as a member of the bahai faith, the obligation resides with them to notify me to that effect, which they have never done.... I urge the non-bahai looking in on this exchange to investigate and reflect carefully on the issues involved and on what they reveal about the bahai faith in practice versus theory.... Consider too that the real target of the fundamentalist attack on me may actually be the bahai community at large, to strike fear and obedience in their hearts in order to control them and to insure their submission, lest they too become the object of such a ferocious, incessant onslaught of slander and abuse.... Other relevant messages and details at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/nsa1996.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/images/Bahai-IDgif.gif For those who think this smear campaign is something new, Google archives my being hounding by the fundamentalists along these lines for years: https://groups.google.com/groups?q=Mahmoudi&hl=en&group=talk.religion.bahai&f ilter=0 I place my trust in Baha'u'llah. And I am a Baha'i in *Perfectly* Good Standing. I repeat that if a letter was written to Mahmoudi and Maneck has a copy of it, let her post it to talk.religion.bahai.... Maneck stated I had written and posted a message to Mahmoudi on google. I've neither acknowledged nor denied that I wrote a letter to her but rather that if one exists she's free to post it to talk.religion.bahai. If such a letter ever existed, it never appeared on my website. Note: Maneck has again revealed the extent to which she works behind the scenes with the fundamentalist elements of the administration. Her obvious game here is merely to discredit and smear me with malicious charges based on distortions taken out of context. I've answered her distortions sufficiently below. Her personal insults reveal much about her and the tactics of her fellow fundamentalists who have also betrayed Abdu'l-Baha's great Words, "in the world of religion there should be the right of unrestricted individual belief." The link below demonstrates no such message from me to Mahmoudi exists on Google: https://groups.google.com/groups?q=Mahmoudi&hl=en&group=talk.religion.bahai&f ilter=0 And it's not on my website. Since you're the one claiming it exists and was posted on my website, it's up to you to prove it. If your bosses have given you a copy, post it here on talk.religion.bahai. Or are you a liar, who can only slander, smear, and discredit other bahais who don't share your fundamentalist interpretations with bogus claims, attempting to drive them out since you can't tolerate anyone who doesn't mirror back to you your literal-minded views.... More insight on Hoda Mahmoudi by Paul Dodenhoff who resigned from the bahai faith and his position as an Assistant to the Auxiliary Board : https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb95.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship See too David Langness, author of the suppressed "Modest Proposal," on Hoda Mahmoudi: "I would advise you to be careful about any meetings, calls or correspondence with Hoda Mahmoudi, who used to be an ABM here in Southern California. She is quite conservative, and sees herself -- as do many of the appointed branch, sadly -- as a staunch defender of the Faith and the faithful, able and more than willing to marginalize people like you and I to discredit our ideas. This cultlike practice of shunning and casting out any dissidents has unfortunately become the chief tactic of those fundamentalist Baha'is bent on maintaining the current leadership. My worry is that the more progressive Baha'is like Juan Cole and Steve Scholl and yourself will all leave the Faith and thereby increase the power of the conservatives." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Langness.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:42 AM Subject: OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented - One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." Further details in "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 11:14 AM Subject: Re: It's a FACT - More Hits than USA bahais - 28,000+ The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Given Professor Cole's recent article and further opportunity to investigate and reflect on actual bahai enrollment in the US, I'm now willing to acknowledge that I may have indeed been too skeptical in my own estimate of 28,000. Anyone care to speculate on how many of the perhaps, at best, 60,000 US bahais are actually fundamenalist in mentality? -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Juan Cole" wrote in message news:619f1452.0205290616.ad4ad6b@posting.google.com... > My article on "The Baha'i Faith in Panopticon" was brought up with the > implication that it was inaccurate in accepting the Kosmin and Lachman > poll estimating 28,000 in the early 1990s. > > In actual fact, I openly said that I thought those poll results were > probably too low, and I quoted Wilmette insiders as giving the number > of registered adult Baha'is as about 60,000. > > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm > > The increased numbers of Baha'is between the early 1990s and 2001 in > the Kosmin survey, from 28,000 to 84,000, cannot be used to show an > actual increase in the number of enrolled Baha'is. > > Virtually every knowledgeable academic observer believed that the > 28,000 figure was too low. It could partially have been produced by > statistical accident. In a very small group, if you call the wrong > homes in a 110,000 person poll, you don't get them. The poll was > mainly useful for fixing the larger groups. > > Also, the number represented those who were so invested in the Baha'i > faith that they made it their primary identity. Large numbers of the > Baha'is in South Carolina, e.g., thought they were Christians whose > Christ has returned. Moreover, a *lot* of Iranian Baha'is in > California had only been here about 10 years then; some did not have > good English and many were too distrustful of outsiders (based on > experiences in Iran) to be willing to answer a telephone poll about > their religion. > > It would be very interesting to know exactly what methodological or > other changes accounted for the increased numbers. One possibility is > that the estimated 12,000-15,000 (some say over 20,000) > Iranian-American Baha'is cooperated with the poll this time, now being > either second generation or 20-year veterans of living in the States. > Another possibility is that the 10,000 or so African-American > Baha'i/Baptists in the South now have a stronger Baha'i identity. You > could pick up 25,000-30,000 just with these two groups having a change > of consciousness and/or willingness to answer telephone polls. > > It therefore is not necessary to posit actual increases of converts > over deaths and withdrawals in the past decade, which I do not believe > could be demonstrated. I can remember years in the '90s when even > Wilmette admitted that it was a wash. (Many Baha'is focus only on > conversions, not withdrawals or deaths, as though the latter don't > have to be factored in). > > A counsellor told a friend of mine that *worldwide* from about 1986 to > 1996 deaths and withdrawals in the Baha'i community just about equaled > conversions to the faith, of which there had only been 400,000 in that > decade. There is no reason to think the U.S. fared better than the > Third World in that decade, and in fact every reason to think that it > did not attract nearly as many converts. > > The usefulness of both polls lies not in fixing exact numbers, which > they cannot do. A poll of 110,000 households in a population of 280 > mn. can't get the small groups exactly right. Their usefulness is in > setting a template against which popular Baha'i claims can be gauged. > Many Baha'is have asserted to me that there are large numbers of > self-identified Baha'is who are not on the rolls--going back to the > 60s and 70s mass teaching. This kind of assertion simply could not be > true given the Kosmin results. Likewise, claims of 140,000 Baha'is on > the rolls, or 170,000, can be measured against the telephone polls to > raise questions about how many of those people have actually drifted > away, or aren't actively self-identified any longer. > > Note that nice religious communities like the Unitarian Universalists > have the opposite configuration. They claim 200,000 (with a big > increase in the 1990s), but Kosmin and Lachman estimated 500,000 > Americans in the early 1990s who identified themselves as Unitarian > Universalists. When you are nice, and don't persecute your > intellectuals, arbitrarily toss people out on their ears, officially > censor everything they publish, and actually do good things for real > people, then Americans *want* to be identified with you. > > I'd be glad to be informed about any particular alleged facts in the > Panopticon article which are actually incorrect. Rightwing Baha'is > keep railing against it, but I've never been able to get any of them > to specify what exactly is wrong. I had good evidence for everything > I said, and I stand by it until proven wrong. > > cheers Juan Cole ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: WHO I AM *versus* Ad hominem, slander, demonize, scapegoat, shun... etc.... WHO I AM *versus* Ad hominem, slander, demonize, scapegoat, shun... etc.... WHO I AM *versus* Ad hominem, slander, demonize, scapegoat, shun... etc.... A bahai fanatic posted: > https://homes.hypermart.net/ Should anyone be interested in the totality of my soul, here are a few of its other dimensions neglected by the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais, in their weird attempts to malign and discredit.... Frederick Glaysher, Poems, Essays, Reviews, https://fglaysher.com/ Our Glaysher Genealogy https://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~glaysher/index.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 9:28 AM Subject: Re: Moral Education of the Children OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." Further details in "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:PLYJ8.11210$qA.237265@news2.telusplanet.net... Moral Education of the Children "Against this gloomy backdrop of a decadent society, Bahá'í children should shine as the emblems of a better future." The Universal House of Justice Edmonton Mabel Pine Bahá'í School Mabel Pine Bahá'í School provides children with moral, spiritual, and social teachings of the Bahá'í Faith and maintains an environment for the children where their sense of "human honor" would be developed and preserved. If you are interested in sending your children to attend classes with their Bahá'í friends, please contact us for the schedule and other information that you might need. -- more... https://oneness-of-mankind.web-page.net ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 9:35 AM Subject: Re: Moral Education of the Children Steven Scholl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- When I received a letter from a Baha'i Continental Counsellor indicating that I was under threat of being declared a Covenant-breaker, the impact on me personally was less than on my family. My wife is a Baha'i as are many of her family members, . . . The very real threat of being declared a Covenant breaker meant my wife had to face the decision of joining me as a heretic or divorcing me so that she could maintain her relationships with her family and other lifelong friends. Since [my wife] had no intention of divorcing me, the choices then extended out to her family. Her sister would not refuse to socialize with us so she would automatically be declared a covenant breaker along with her husband and children. Many of my close Baha'i friends would also be faced with the decision of maintaining friendships or joining me as a heretic. The whole thing is absurd and quite medieval. But it does raise the issue which you point out so well; how anyone would want to belong to a group which is willing to act this way and be so cruel is beyond me. That is why I voluntarily left the religion. Not in order to escape punishment but because the Baha'i community had become such an unhealthy place spiritually. I was terribly saddened that my spiritual home of 25 years had turned into a prison and nightmare. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl3.htm Quoted by Karen Bacquet in "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" [60] Scholl, Steven. (2000). April 26 post to talisman9@yahoogroups.com. See Steven Scholl's related comments: Re: Article in American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal by Karen Bacquet -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Mesbah" wrote in message news:PLYJ8.11210$qA.237265@news2.telusplanet.net... Moral Education of the Children "Against this gloomy backdrop of a decadent society, Bahá'í children should shine as the emblems of a better future." The Universal House of Justice Edmonton Mabel Pine Bahá'í School Mabel Pine Bahá'í School provides children with moral, spiritual, and social teachings of the Bahá'í Faith and maintains an environment for the children where their sense of "human honor" would be developed and preserved. If you are interested in sending your children to attend classes with their Bahá'í friends, please contact us for the schedule and other information that you might need. -- more... https://oneness-of-mankind.web-page.net ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 8:11 AM Subject: Re: Fundamentalism in US Baha'i Community I couldn't agree more.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Juan Cole" wrote in message news:619f1452.0205310812.2824fe41@posting.google.com... > But Matt, don't you think that if you lived in a society where > religious institutions became the civil government, that would be > Khomeinist. There isn't any real difference between komitehs of the > Party of God ruling society and LSAs and NSAs. > > I have lots of Iranian academic friends who were silenced or purged > for their writing because it was critical of the Khomeinist state. It > is actually illegal in Iran to contest the idea that the supreme > Shi`ite jurisprudent should rule the country. > > I don't see what the difference in principle is between that and the > Baha'i institutions claiming they can never be publicly criticized, > and sending counsellors and ABMs around to silence people with threats > that they will be shunned or ostracized. If the Baha'is who behave > this way controlled a government, they would be just as oppressive as > the Khomeinists. UHJ member Hushmand Fatheazam once told me that a > future Baha'i world government would put covenant breakers in jail! > > We all know where I would be if that sort of person controlled the US > government. > > So when you say you want to get away from Khomeinism, are you serious? > Because it would mean taking the theocrat party within the Baha'i > faith seriously, and dissociating yourself from them. > > cheers Juan Cole > > > > > > > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm > > > > Here's to getting as far away from Khomeinist Islam as possible. In > > Iran they hurt us by persecution. Everywhere else they hurt us by the > > embarassment of being associated with them. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Matt ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: Prof. Cole's New Article - "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" - Religious Studies Review 2002 For anyone interested in the bahai faith, let me mention that Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's History Department, has recently published an excellent article that discusses the fundamentalism that has become dominant within the bahai faith during the last few decades. Its exceedingly distrubing revelations highlight the many heresy trials, purges, and distortions that the extremists among my fellow bahais have been imposing upon bahais and non-bahais now for years. "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm Religious Studies Review 2002 Professor Cole has written yet one more work that mightly defends Abdu'l-Baha's respect for freedom of conscience and speech. I recommend it to anyone interested in trying to understand what is actually taking place within the bahai faith today as the best brief introduction now available. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:01 AM Subject: Re: Prof. Cole's New Article - "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" - Religious Studies Review 2002 Excerpts from Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm Religious Studies Review 2002: ...fundamentalism as an ideology gives Counselors and the UHJ far more practical power than does liberalism, which is thus seen as "undermining" that power. Given the centrality and authority of these Baha'i institutions, the ability of fundamentalists to capture them may be the most important explanation for the increasing hegemony of this tendency in the movement. **** At the turn of the twenty-first century, the tendency of the movement is less open. Fundamentalists in the international center and their appointees in the "institutions of the learned" dislike the democratic system of governance, are committed to establishing an ultimate Baha'i theocracy, and wish to prohibit academic modes of discourse about the core areas of the religion. All of these themes, if widely adopted, would bring the religion into greater tension with the surrounding U.S. society. (The U.S. is after all a democracy committed to the separation of religion and state where nearly half of citizens go on to some form of higher education). Demands that liberal members avoid discussing their personal views of the faith on public email lists, and threats or sanctions launched at those who demur from the fundamentalist orthodoxy and become "prominent," all point to an increasing exclusivism more characteristic of the sect than of the church. Whereas `Abdu'l-Baha had forbidden in the tolerant Baha'i faith the Muslim custom of issuing rulings that a believer had departed into disbelief, and whereas Shoghi Effendi had insisted that believers be extensively counseled before being punished, the current leadership has initiated a new practice of summary expulsion from the rolls. The community is becoming more ready to exclude, impelled by developments in the religion's world center, by the increasing influence of fundamentalism in American religion generally, and perhaps also by the influx of immigrants, especially some Iranians, from the Third World, as well as by the transparency and consequent open conflict introduced into community discourse by the internet. The community is small and needs its resources, and so the purges have centered on a few vocal individuals rather than being more general, apparently in hopes that the remaining liberals will take the hint and keep their silence in public.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:adi9fq$1198f1$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > For anyone interested in the bahai faith, let me mention that > Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's History Department, > has recently published an excellent article that discusses the > fundamentalism that has become dominant within the bahai faith > during the last few decades. Its exceedingly distrubing revelations > highlight the many heresy trials, purges, and distortions that the > extremists among my fellow bahais have been imposing upon > bahais and non-bahais now for years. > > "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm > Religious Studies Review 2002 > > Professor Cole has written yet one more work that mightly defends > Abdu'l-Baha's respect for freedom of conscience and speech. > > I recommend it to anyone interested in trying to understand what > is actually taking place within the bahai faith today as the best > brief introduction now available. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:55 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative - "These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants. So in the world of existence two persons unanimous in all grades [of thought] and all beliefs cannot be found." --Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:56 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "Abdu'l-Baha clearly advocated not only freedom of conscience but - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] "Abdu'l-Baha clearly advocated not only freedom of conscience but also freedom of *speech* and a democratic society." Juan Cole, December 03, 1997 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Freedom2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:56 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "This is a goodly temple and congregation, - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "This is a goodly temple and congregation, for--praise be to God!--this is a house of worship [Central Congregational Church in Brooklyn on 16 June 1912] wherein conscientious opinion has free sway. Every religion and every religious aspiration may be freely voiced and expressed here. Just as in the world of politics there is need for free thought, likewise in the world of religion there should be the right of unrestricted individual belief. Consider what a vast difference exists between modern democracy and the old forms of despotism. Under an autocratic government the opinions of men are not free, and development is stifled, whereas in a democracy, because thought and speech are not restricted, the greatest progress is witnessed. It is likewise true in the world of religion. When freedom of conscience, liberty of thought and right of speech prevail--that is to say, when every man according to his own idealization may give expression to his beliefs--development and growth are inevitable. Therefore, this is a blessed church because its pulpit is open to every religion, the ideals of which may be set forth with openness and freedom." The Promulgation of Universal Peace, 197. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:57 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha on Freedom of Conscience and Speech - Translated by - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha on Freedom of Conscience and Speech - Translated by Juan R.I. Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan. Palo Alto, California, 9 October 1912: "Before `Abdu l-Baha left Palo Alto, a group again had the honor of gathering in the most holy court. Among his blessed utterances was an explanation of religious conflicts, especially those of the Christians. "Some said Christ was God, and some said he was the Word, while others called him a prophet. Because of these differences, conflicts arose among them, such that in the community there was enmity instead of spirituality, and estrangement rather than unity. But Baha u llah has closed the door on such differences. By arranging for interpretation to be carried out by an authoritative Interpreter of the Book, by establishing the Universal House of Justice--or in other words the Parliament of the [Baha i] community--and by commanding that there be no interference in beliefs or conscience, He blocked such breaches from occurring. He even said that if two persons discussing some matter develope a dispute, such that it leads to a polarization, both are wrong and discredited." (MahmŁd Zarq nˇ, Kit b-i Bad 'i` al-Ath r, 2 vols. (Hofheim-Langenhain: Bah 'ˇ-Verlag, 1982), 1:294.) -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Three Types of Liberty A Talk of `Abdu l-Baha given on 7 April 1913 in Budapest He is God. Liberty is of three sorts. One is the divine freedom, that is confined to the essence of the Creator. He is autonomous and absolute. No one can compel Him with regard to anything at all. Another form of liberty is that of the Europeans, which holds that human beings may do as they please on the condition that they not harm one another. This is the liberty of nature, and its highest degree is found in the animal world. This is the estate of the animal. Look at these birds, in what liberty they live. Whatever human beings might do, they can never be as free as animals. Rather, order stands in the way of freedom. As for the third sort of liberty, it is under the divine laws and ordinances. This is the liberty of the human world, which severs the heart relationship with all things. It soothes all hardships and sorrow. The more the consciences of human beings progress, the more free their hearts become, and the more glad their spirits become. In the religion of God there is freedom of thought, for no one can rule over the [individual s] conscience save God. But [freedom of thought] exists only to the extent that it is not expressed in terms that depart from politeness. In the religion of God there is no freedom of deeds. No one can transgress the divine law, even if in so doing he harms no one. For by the divine law is intended the training of oneself and others. For to God, harming oneself or harming others are the same, and both are reprehensible. In hearts there must be the fear of God, and human beings must not commit blameworthy deeds. Therefore, the freedom of deeds that exists in civil law does not exist in religion. As for freedom of thought, it must not transgress the bounds of politeness. And deeds are also linked to fear of God and the divine good-pleasure. `Abdu'l-Hamˇd Ishr q-Kh varˇ, ed., M 'idih-yi Asm nˇ, 9 vols. (Tehran: Bah 'ˇ Publishing Trust, 1973) 5:17-18. https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:57 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdul-Baha - freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] Abdul-Baha - freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart - "[To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendency over other lands. Other civilized countries acquired not this preeminence, nor attained unto these high degrees of influence and power, till such time as they put away the strife of sects out of their midst, and dealt with all classes according to one standard. All are one people, one nation, one species, one kind. The common interest is complete equality; justice and equality amongst mankind are amongst the chief promoters of empire and the principal means to the extension of the skirt of conquest. From whatever section of earth's denizens signs of contentiousness appear, prompt punishment is required by a just government; while any person who girds up the loins of endeavor and carries off the ball of priority is deserving of royal favors and worthy of splendid gifts. Times are changed, and the need and fashion of the world are changed. Interference with creed and faith in every country causes manifest detriment, while justice and equal dealing towards all peoples on the face of the earth are the means whereby progress is effected. * * * Where is this little island in the North Atlantic, and where the vast territory of the East Indies? Can such extension be obtained save by equal justice to all peoples and classes? At all events, by means of just laws, freedom of conscience, and uniform dealing and equity towards all nationalities and peoples, they have actually brought under their dominion nearly all of the inhabited quarter of the world, and by reason of these principles of freedom they have added day by day to the strength, power, and extent of their empire, while most of the peoples on the face of the earth celebrate the name of this state for its justice. As regards religious zeal and true piety, their touchstone and proof are firmness and steadfastness in noble qualities, virtues, and perfections, which are the greatest blessings of the human race; but not interference with the belief of this one or that one, demolition of edifices, and cutting off of the human race. In the middle ages, whereof the beginning was the time of the fall of the Roman Empire, and the end the capture of Constantinople at the hands of [the followers of] Islám, fierce intolerance and molestation of far and near arose in [all] the countries of Europe by reason of the paramount influence of religious leaders. The matter came to such a pass that the edifice of humanity seemed tottering to its fall, and the peace and comfort of chief and vassal, king and subject, became hidden behind the veil of annihilation. Night and day all parties were slaves to apprehension and disquietude: civilization was utterly destroyed: the control and order of countries was neglected: the principles and essentials of the happiness of the human race were in abeyance: the supports of kingly authority were shaken: but the influence and power of the heads of religion and of the monks were in all parts complete. But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction; and whereas the mightiest monarchy of Europe had been servile to and abased before the smallest government of Asia, now the great states of Asia are unable to oppose the small states of Europe. These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the contingent world. Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take place in this world, what further recompense remains for man in the court of divine justice at the day of general resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants. So in the world of existence two persons unanimous in all grades [of thought] and all beliefs cannot be found. `The ways unto God are as the number of the breaths of [His] creatures' is a mysterious truth, and `To every [people] We have appointed a [separate] rite' [50] is one of the subtleties of the Qur'án." A Traveler's Narrative, originally published in 1891, 87 - 92. https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:58 AM Subject: [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] Abdu'l-Baha - "Likewise, when you meet those whose opinions differ from your own, do not turn away your face from them. All are seeking truth, and there are many roads leading thereto. Truth has many aspects , but it remains always and forever one. Do not allow difference of opinion, or diversity of thought to separate you from your fellow-men, or to be the cause of dispute, hatred and strife in your hearts." --Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, 53. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Truly, this is a great and revered nation. Here liberty has reached its highest degree. The intentions of its people are most praiseworthy. They are, indeed, worthy of being the first to build the Tabernacle of the Most Great Peace and proclaim the oneness of mankind. I will supplicate God for assistance [PUP p.36-37] You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying the perfect liberty , security and peace of this just government. There is no cause for sorrow or unhappiness anywhere; every means of happiness and enjoyment is about you, for in this human world there is no greater blessing than liberty. [PUP p.52] This is the century of new and universal nationhood. Sciences have advanced; industries have progressed; politics have been reformed; liberty has been proclaimed; justice is awakening. [PUP p.143] Praise be to God! The standard of liberty is held aloft in this land. You enjoy political liberty; you enjoy liberty of thought and speech, religious liberty, racial and personal liberty. Surely this is worthy of appreciation and thanksgiving.[PUP p.390] But when they removed these differences, persecution, and bigotries out of their midst, and proclaimed the equal rights of all subjects and the liberty of men's consciences, the lights of glory and power arose and shone from the horizons of that kingdom in such wise that those countries made progress in every direction [TN p.91] When meeting for consultation, each must use perfect liberty in stating his views and unveiling the proof of his demonstration. [BWF p.406] The third candle is unity in freedom which will surely come to pass. [SWA p.32] The honoured members must with all freedom express their own thoughts, and it is in no wise permissible for one to belittle the thought of another,[SWA p.88] [To insure] freedom of conscience and tranquility of heart and soul is one of the duties and functions of government, and is in all ages the cause of progress in development and ascendency over other lands. [TNp87] The Constitutional Government, according to the irrefutable text of the Religion of God, is the cause of the glory and prosperity of the nation and the civilization and freedom of the people[TAB p. 492] https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:58 AM Subject: bahai - "That includes blowing the whistle on coercion, manipulation - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience bahai - "That includes blowing the whistle on coercion, manipulation and abuse by Baha'i administrators of innocent adherents. I plead for all right thinking and compassionate persons to join me in trying to reform the Baha'i administration by critiquing it. It is out of kilter. Its members know it is out of kilter. It needs to be righted. Kowtowing only keeps it out of kilter." Professor Juan Cole, October 12, 1998 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole19.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:59 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "These are the people who sent their man to my own home to - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] "These are the people who sent their man to my own home to interrogate me and then had me (a well known professor of Middle East Studies at a major university!) threatened with being shunned unless I fell silent! If that isnt' the coercion of conscience then I don't know what is!" Professor Juan Cole, January 31, 1999 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole72.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:00 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "Shunning is the marker of a cult . . . note that these are all - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] "Shunning is the marker of a cult . . . note that these are all relatively small cults and none of them will ever really amount to anything in mainstream society." "I think shunning is a human rights abuse. It may be legal (in non-tort situations), but then, lots of human rights abuses are legal. I don't see the difference between the Mafia organizing a conspiracy to have someone's restaurant boycotted unless he pays protection money, and a religious organization threatening to prevent someone from seeing his coreligionist relatives at reunions unless he is blindly obedient to them. Both are forms of coercion that invade privacy and detract from the autonomy and dignity of the individual." - Professor Juan Cole, February 12, 1999 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole54.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:01 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "Suppression (that is what it was) of Dialogue magazine by - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] "Suppression (that is what it was) of Dialogue magazine by Kazemzadeh and Henderson." Professor Juan Cole, May 13, 1999 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole30.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:01 AM Subject: [ bahai ] "....right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience [ bahai ] "....right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot refute." --Professor Juan Cole, Department of History, University of Michigan https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:02 AM Subject: Abdu'l-Baha - "You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience Abdu'l-Baha - "You are living upon the great continent of the West, enjoying the perfect liberty, security and peace of this just government. There is no cause for sorrow or unhappiness anywhere; every means of happiness and enjoyment is about you, for in this human world there is no greater blessing than liberty." [PUP p.52] https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB2.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:03 AM Subject: 64. O OPPRESSORS OF EARTH! - Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience 64. O OPPRESSORS OF EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man's injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed it with My seal of glory. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Tyranny.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Justice.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:15 AM Subject: Excerpts from Prof Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" *** Religious Studies Review 2002 **** Excerpts from Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm Religious Studies Review 2002: ...fundamentalism as an ideology gives Counselors and the UHJ far more practical power than does liberalism, which is thus seen as "undermining" that power. Given the centrality and authority of these Baha'i institutions, the ability of fundamentalists to capture them may be the most important explanation for the increasing hegemony of this tendency in the movement. **** At the turn of the twenty-first century, the tendency of the movement is less open. Fundamentalists in the international center and their appointees in the "institutions of the learned" dislike the democratic system of governance, are committed to establishing an ultimate Baha'i theocracy, and wish to prohibit academic modes of discourse about the core areas of the religion. All of these themes, if widely adopted, would bring the religion into greater tension with the surrounding U.S. society. (The U.S. is after all a democracy committed to the separation of religion and state where nearly half of citizens go on to some form of higher education). Demands that liberal members avoid discussing their personal views of the faith on public email lists, and threats or sanctions launched at those who demur from the fundamentalist orthodoxy and become "prominent," all point to an increasing exclusivism more characteristic of the sect than of the church. Whereas `Abdu'l-Baha had forbidden in the tolerant Baha'i faith the Muslim custom of issuing rulings that a believer had departed into disbelief, and whereas Shoghi Effendi had insisted that believers be extensively counseled before being punished, the current leadership has initiated a new practice of summary expulsion from the rolls. The community is becoming more ready to exclude, impelled by developments in the religion's world center, by the increasing influence of fundamentalism in American religion generally, and perhaps also by the influx of immigrants, especially some Iranians, from the Third World, as well as by the transparency and consequent open conflict introduced into community discourse by the internet. The community is small and needs its resources, and so the purges have centered on a few vocal individuals rather than being more general, apparently in hopes that the remaining liberals will take the hint and keep their silence in public.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:adi9fq$1198f1$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > For anyone interested in the bahai faith, let me mention that > Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's History Department, > has recently published an excellent article that discusses the > fundamentalism that has become dominant within the bahai faith > during the last few decades. Its exceedingly distrubing revelations > highlight the many heresy trials, purges, and distortions that the > extremists among my fellow bahais have been imposing upon > bahais and non-bahais now for years. > > "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" > https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm > Religious Studies Review 2002 > > Professor Cole has written yet one more work that mightly defends > Abdu'l-Baha's respect for freedom of conscience and speech. > > I recommend it to anyone interested in trying to understand what > is actually taking place within the bahai faith today as the best > brief introduction now available. > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:04 PM Subject: President George W. Bush's Speech at West Point President George W. Bush's words at West Point are equally applicable to the totalitarians on Mt. Carmel: "Because the war on terror will require resolve and patience, it will also require firm moral purpose. In this way our struggle is similar to the cold war. Now, as then, our enemies are totalitarians, holding a creed of power with no place for human dignity. Now, as then, they seek to impose a joyless conformity, to control every life and all of life." https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/01/international/02PTEX-WEB.html?pagewanted=2 -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 7:43 AM Subject: OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) **** Re: BI*P*GS@liberty.com is a troll. OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." Further details in "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm I also urge non-bahais to read some of the primary material on my and Professor Cole's websites and decide for themselves: "Baha'i Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997" https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" Religious Studies Review 2002 - Essential Reading: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Dave Fiorito" wrote in message news:f0853486.0206051053.5fcc9490@posting.google.com... > My apologies for the intrusion. In case you had not noticed, Fred > Glaysher who posts under the handle "Bahai Faith" > (BI*P*GS@liberty.com) is a troll. Fred is not a Baha'i and does not > represent the Baha'i Faith. If you have any questions about issues he > has raised those of us on USENET who are Baha'is would be more than > willing to discuss them. > > Again - sorry for the intrusion. > > > TROLL: > > 1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting > on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the > post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in > turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one > trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The > well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and > flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already > do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it > is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get > to be in on it. See also YHBT. 2. n. An individual who chronically > trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or > personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no > other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls > are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in > learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame > bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no > redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower > form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll." > > (thanks K for the definition) ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:29 AM Subject: TWO Comprehensive Introductions to bahai Fundamentalism - Cole & Bacquet For those interested in understanding what's taking place regarding the Bahai Wars, I urge you to read some of the primary material on my and Professor Cole's websites and decide for yourselves. I especially recommend two articles: Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm Along with Cole's survey, I also highly recommend Karen Bacquet's article in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal, as another one of the best introductions to the many conflicts and injustices that have shakened the religion during the last few decades: "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community": https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html Together, Cole and Bacquet's articles, provide a comprehensive view of fundamentalism within the bahai faith today. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 8:54 AM Subject: TWO Comprehensive Articles on bahai Fundamentalism - Cole & Bacquet For those interested in understanding and making sense of what's taking place regarding the Bahai Wars, I urge you to read some of the primary material on my and Professor Cole's websites and decide for yourself. I especially recommend two articles: Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm Along with Cole's survey, I also highly recommend Karen Bacquet's article in the American Family Foundation's Cultic Studies Journal: "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community": https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html Together, Cole and Bacquet's articles provide a comprehensive view of fundamentalism within the bahai faith today and provide a thorough context within which to understand the claims of the various points of view represented on talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai, AOL, and elsewhere. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 9:14 AM Subject: AOL - New Fundamentalist Tactic Some people here on AOL's bahai Message Boards are now speculating that the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais have decided to kill these boards by NOT posting to them so that AOL will simply delete the entire system for lack of sufficient particpation. The IRONY is the fanatics have DRIVEN people off the boards by hounding and harassing them into oblivion! Those concerned about this latest tactic might want to post before it's too late! -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 12:44 PM Subject: bahai - FREE - Download My Entire Website: BahaiCensorship62002.Zip 17 megabytes OR What bahai Fanatics Don't Want You to Read.... bahai - FREE - Download My Entire Website: BahaiCensorship62002.Zip 17 megabytes zipped - 6/6/2002 Includes All Archives https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archive.htm BahaiCensorship2001CD version! 23 megabytes zipped 1/1/2002 https://balder.prohosting.com/~bahai/archive.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:19 AM Subject: Re: SMOKING GUN - Re: AOL - New Fundamentalist Tactic would like an explanation WHY this post was deleted. What are you trying to hide and suppress, as though we don't all know.... ----- LDRS LFST Shahid Volunteer Message Board Leader Lifestyles Community ======== Copy of Your Message ======== Subject: Discussing about the lack of participation on this message board Date: 6/7/2002 7:27 PM Central Daylight Time From: Mr Mahdi Message-id: <20020607202737.01905.00000437@mb-fx.aol.com> I would like for the people here to discuss the reasons why the Bahai Message Board on AOL is becoming less active. We should also discuss what is needed to rectify the situation. I personally believe that certain people have been driven away from these boards. I remember these boards back in 1998 where it was EXTREMELY active. People were allowed to express their views and as a result, the boards had thousands of posts. Intellectual contributions were common and food for thought became something we saw everyday back then. But after a certain former leader returned from a hiatus, this message board had become a place of extreme double-standards and intolerance. Open but civil and intellectual discussions were being suppressed. Members even had their accounts canceled or at least suspended after posting non-TOSable messages because the content and the person posting did not sit well with the forum leader(s). For these and many other reasons, many members of AOL, including myself, decided to either post here less frequently or not post here at all. This is unfortunate because if this board was like the early days when I was on, it would be probably 100s of times more active and even beneficial for the readership. We need to start discussing the issues so that we can improve this message board before it is shutdown forever due to lack of participation. Mahdi Muhammad Frederick Glaysher www.google.com Search Engine: Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience "BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing" wrote in message news:adrgkq$1qqsl$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > Subject: Re: What's this all about? > Date: 5/31/2002 12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From: LDRS LFST Shahid > Message-id: <20020531123112.07494.00000134@mb-bg.aol.com> > > > > > >What's going on with this folder? Just curious.... > > > > Dear Wendy, > > Glad you asked. The current standard for removal of folders is two weeks > with 10 postings or less. The reasoning is that with 25 million members, if > a folder cannot generate at least on post per day, then the subject/topic is > dead. This is very reasonable when you consider that many of our folders are > generating in excess of 20-50 posts per day and some are generating hundreds > of posts per day. > > However, because some of the communities are struggling to increase > activity, rather than remove these folders, they are moved to an "About to > leave us" folder where the membership can have another chance at > rejuvenating them. If the activity increases, they can be moved back to the > appropriate folder. If not, they will be permanently removed. > LDRS LFST Shahid > Volunteer Message Board Host > AOL Keyword: Baha'i > > > > > > > > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > news:adqbgv$1gun4$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Some people here on AOL's bahai Message Boards are now speculating that > the > > fundamentalists among my fellow bahais have decided to kill these boards > by > > NOT posting to them so that AOL will simply delete the entire system for > > lack of sufficient particpation. The IRONY is the fanatics have DRIVEN > > people off the boards by hounding and harassing them into oblivion! > > > > Those concerned about this latest tactic might want to post before it's > too > > late! > > > > -- > > Frederick Glaysher > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:32 AM Subject: bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMER bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS -S - &&&&&& bahai - START HERE - NEWCOMERS - If newcomers to talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai desire not to be deceived, it will require more than a passing glance at a few messages. I suggest you begin with the links below which provide a historical survey of the last several years of bahai censorship and then visit further my and Professor Cole's websites. Together, Cole and Bacquet's articles below provide a comprehensive view of fundamentalism within the bahai faith today. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Karen Bacquet, "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the Baha'i Community" published in AFF's Cultic Studies Journal: https://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html "AFF (American Family Foundation) is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research center and educational organization founded in 1979. AFF's mission is to study psychological manipulation and cultic groups, to educate the public and professionals, and to assist those who have been adversely affected by a cult-related experience. AFF consists of a professional staff and a growing network of more than 150 volunteer professionals in fields ranging from education, psychology, and religion to journalism, law enforcement, and business." Further details about AFF: https://www.csj.org/aff/aff_about.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roll Call of Victims https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/RollCall.htm To the Universal House of Justice - July 24, 1998 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ72498.htm To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm The Bahai Technique ---- **Essential Reading** ---- Demonize, Discredit, Smear, Suppress, Scapegoat, Slander, Shun... etc.... https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:33 AM Subject: WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - &&&&&&&&&& WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - WARNING - Psychological WAR ZONE - Those new to talk.religion.bahai and alt.religion.bahai might want to consider that they have entered a psychological war zone, one in which bahai fundamentalists have been attempting for at least several years to portray many fellow bahais and non-bahais in exceedingly negative terms. A more than decade-long record of this psychological, spiritual battle may be quickly skimmed, or read to the degree of your interest, at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:33 AM Subject: FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING $$$$$$$$$ FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING FULL TEXT - uhj threatens EDITOR'S - Marriage - ESSENTIAL READING This letter is essential to understanding the censorship and coercion of conscience that has become increasingly pervasive in the bahai faith since 1970. It was apparently written by the uhj to Anthony A. Lee, editor of Kalimat Press, a small bahai publishing house, which initially had an agreement with Columbia University Press to distribute the book to bahai readers: https://www.kalimat.com/ Compare Prof. Juan Cole's response to excerpts of this letter at https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/modernit.htm Three reviews of Cole's book, from different perspectives, may be found at Modernity and the Millennium https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/reviews-cole.htm For the use of similarly coercive tactics by the bahai administration, see Hoda Mahmoudi's coercive email of 1997. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm For the uninformed, it should be noted, beforehand, that it has been alleged by a number of bahais and ex-bahais, that the uhj has apparently forced some couples to divorce in order to prove their loyalty and obedience and some family members to cease associating with siblings, children, and parents. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl3.htm The full text below also available at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ----------------- August 1999 Transmitted by email: XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX U.S.A. Dear Baha'i Friend, The Universal House of Justice has reviewed the letter of 8 May 1999 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States, signed by you on behalf of VVVVV Press and copied for the House of Justice, on the subject of the manner in which VVVVV has promoted to Baha'is Juan Cole's book, Modernity and the Millennium. We have been asked to write as follows. A good deal of the work of VVVV Press, which you have ably directed during the twenty or so years of the firm's existence, has constituted a significant contribution to the advancement of the Cause we all love and seek to serve. It is clear, too, that, beyond the administration of VVVVV's activities, this valued contribution owes a great deal to your own creativity and professional talents. These circumstances move the House of the Justice to share with you candidly the deep concern it feels regarding your relationship with the Baha'i Faith. As you are aware, such concern prompted earlier efforts, including those made by Counsellor Stephen Birkland and Dr. Pierre-Yves Mocquais, a member of the Auxiliary Board, in their interview with you and your wife, Dr. GGGGGGGG, in May of 1996, to draw to your attention the serious dangers of the course you have long been following. At that time, you expressed to Mr. Birkland your deep regret over actions on your part that were seen by the House of Justice to be clearly in conflict with the beliefs you profess as a follower of Baha'u'llah, as well as your firm assurance that your actions would not again give cause for such intervention. It is impossible to reconcile professions of this kind with the arguments made by you in the 8 May letter. The inappropriateness of the promotional statements and of the approach taken in the letter serves as an illustration of the attitude and behavior on your part that have long been a source of difficulty. It is these personal elements that the House of Justice has asked us to address. Clearly, no one would dispute the right of Dr. Cole to write and publish whatever work a publisher is prepared to handle. Nor has anyone questioned the right of a Baha'i who is interested in such a book to purchase it. To suggest that the House of Justice is saying otherwise would be to seriously misconstrue the nature of its concern. The book itself is incidental to the problem of Mr. XXXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 2 attitude on your part that the National Assembly was asked to raise with you. As a participant in various Internet discussion groups over the past five years, and particularly in the last year or two, you cannot but be aware from these exchanges that Dr. Cole has embarked on a deliberate assault against the Baha'i Cause, in which he has not hesitated to attack its institutions, to misrepresent its fundamental teachings, and to abuse the trust of Baha'is who had been led to believe that they were engaged with him in a detached and scholarly search for the truth. These same Internet exchanges exposed you, like other participants, to a flood of calumny and invective against a great many of your fellow believers, on the part of Dr. Cole, that is scarcely credible in rational discourse. Had such a book as Modernity and the Millennium been written by a disinterested non-Baha'i scholar, its misconception of the nature of Baha'u'llah's Mission and its other shortcomings would have represented no more than understandable weaknesses of an honest attempt to explore a religious phenomenon as yet little understood in the West. Indeed, in this context, such an attempt to make the Baha'i Faith comprehensible to the Western academic mind, however inadequate it might appear to knowledgeable Baha'i scholars, would surely have earned its author a measure of genuine Baha'i appreciation for the writing and research skills deployed in devising it. As you -- like other participants in certain Internet discussion groups -- are well aware, however, the book's author is not a disinterested scholar. Rather, he is a deeply embittered individual who, as his book was in preparation, had just denounced in the most intemperate language an apparent twenty-year allegiance to Baha'u'llah, in the wake of a failed attempt on his part to impose his private ideological agenda on the Baha'i community's study of Baha'u'llah's Message. Modernity and the Millennium represents an effort to provide the current stage of this long-running scheme with the underpinnings of scholarly rationalization. What is this rationalization? Although distorted by its evasion of Baha'i Texts that contradict its main assertions, and blurred by reliance on speculations peculiar to its author's purpose, the thesis appears to run somewhat as follows: Baha'u'llah's work and Writings represent essentially one of several efforts by Middle East thinkers to work out a "response" to the challenges posed by European modernity in the form of rationalism, revolution, nationalism, economic upheaval, feminism and other contemporary developments. Although Oriental in origin, this particular "response", in contrast to various others, was unusually "progressive", "liberal", "idealistic", even "radical". Because it "grew up" in a congenial modernist era, its Author was able gradually to adjust and revise the ideas with which He had been "grappling", through benefiting (in a manner generally insinuated rather than explicitly stated) from successive interactions with other thinkers and movements. By 1862, apparently in order to deal with the problem of religious exclusivity in the Muslim world, and in response to some form of "private mystical experience", He "decided to make a prophetic claim of his own". As mentioned above, if such a view had represented the interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Mission arrived at by a non-Baha'i as the result of his objective study of the sources, no Baha'i institution could have an objection. Its relevance to the concern of the House of Justice about your behavior arises rather from your long-standing and widely recognized involvement with a few present and former members of the Faith who seek to foist this caricature of Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 3 the Cause on the Baha'i community, and your perceived identification with their purpose. The Covenant, the distinguishing feature of Baha'u'llah's Revelation, has been made the central target of this effort (a maneuver that Dr. Cole's book is at particular pains to shore up). Although forced to acknowledge the appointments of `Abdu'l-Baha and the Guardian as Interpreters of Baha'u'llah's Message, every effort has been made to call such authoritative interpretation into question wherever it presents a problem for the notions being promoted. Similarly, although ostensibly acknowledging that the Universal House of Justice is Head of the Baha'i Faith today, this opposition has tried by every means possible to undermine the broad authority conferred in Baha'u'llah's own words and emphasized in the Master's Will and Testament. (In Dr. Cole's book, this agenda makes its appearance in the conclusion: namely, that the Faith founded by Baha'u'llah has failed in its mission because, like "the Khomeinist state in Iran", it has been somehow captured by "fundamentalists", by which term Dr. Cole has repeatedly characterized the members of the Universal House of Justice.) Why would a Baha'i or a Baha'i publisher who is genuinely devoted to advancing Baha'i scholarship and to encouraging confirmation of believers in Baha'u'llah's Covenant seek to persuade his Baha'i readers that a device intended as the mainspring of an attack on their Faith is "an indispensable book for any serious student of Baha'i history"? How could an effort to represent to the Baha'i community such a work as "a brilliant, scholarly analysis of the life and teachings of Baha'u'llah" serve the Cause of God? What moral benefit do you imagine a Baha'i reader could conceivably derive from taking seriously the theories of an individual whose apparently ungovernable malice has made his activities the focal point of contention and disharmony among any believers unwise enough to be influenced by him? Indeed, what relevance do Dr. Cole's academic credentials, so strongly emphasized in your letter of 8 May, have to the moral and spiritual issue raised in the letter from the National Spiritual Assembly? Clearly, no reader, Baha'i or otherwise, would be interested in reading a supposedly scholarly study whose author lacked the relevant scholarly qualifications. Nor, presumably, would any publisher, Baha'i or otherwise, promote a work from such an unqualified source. It is both meaningless and disingenuous to argue that these qualifications, however valid in themselves, assure that a publication meets the moral and spiritual standards that are made explicitly clear in the Writings of the Faith whose interests VVVVV's activities are ostensibly designed to serve. The assumption of Baha'i institutions is that the purpose motivating a group of believers to create a publishing house that enjoys privileged access to the Baha'i community is in order to promote the advancement of the Baha'i Cause. The House of Justice has always assumed -- as is no doubt the case with Baha'is generally -- that this was the desire that motivated you and your associates to create VVVV Press. If some different conception of purpose underlies the VVVVV enterprise, then it is essential that you advise the United States National Spiritual Assembly of the facts of the situation, frankly, unequivocally, and without delay. Mr. XXXXXX 3 August 1999 Page 4 The House of Justice calls on you to meditate profoundly on the questions raised in the foregoing, as these issues bear directly on the relationship that binds you to your Lord. Does not the Master in His Will and Testament itself, specifically warn: "According to the direct and sacred command of God we are forbidden to utter slander, are commanded to show forth peace and amity, are exhorted to rectitude of conduct, straight-forwardness and harmony with all the kindreds and peoples of the world"? Does He not, in that same foundation document of the Cause, counsel all of us: "O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results"? The impressive services that you have rendered the Faith, with GGGG's loving support, represent for you a spiritual treasure. God forbid that so precious a capital should be squandered. While there is yet time, the House of Justice earnestly appeals to you to turn away from the course on which you have long been set, a course that has been marked by steady spiritual deterioration and that will lead to grievous loss in both this world and the next. As you will recall, because the matter was of direct concern to her, GGGG asked urgently to be included in your discussion with Mr. Birkland and Dr. Mocquais. Because these issues continue to bear so immediately on the well-being of your family, you need to recognize your moral obligation to take her fully into your confidence also on the contents of this present letter. In the past, you have expressed bewilderment that your actions should have required the intervention of senior Baha'i institutions. The House of Justice expects that you have now understood clearly what is at stake and that you will resolve, unambiguously and at once, to abandon the course you have, alas, been pursuing. The House of Justice will pray ardently at the Holy Threshold that you will be granted the courage and will to meet the spiritual challenge you face. With loving Baha'i greetings, Department of the Secretariat ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:34 AM Subject: bahai - Roll Call of Victims - Roll Call of Honor - $$$$$$$$$$ bahai - Roll Call of Victims - Roll Call of Honor - bahai - Roll Call of Victims - Roll Call of Honor - Anthony A. Lee, Editor of Kalimat Press, the latest victim whose story has come to light.... The many victims of bahai fundamentalists include Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge, editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of Dialogue magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest, David Langness, Professor Juan Cole of the History Department of the University of Michigan, writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini, former Assistant to the Auxiliary Board Paul Dodenhoff, Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship, Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman, Deborah Buckhorn, and Anthony A. Lee, Editor of Kalimat Press, the latest victim whose story has come to light.... Anthony A. Lee, Editor of Kalimat Press: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm https://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol6/salmuhj.htm Deborah Buckhorn, New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuit.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuitResponse.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AmicusC.htm OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat. (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." I urge the perceptive reader seeking to understand the bahai faith to consider the experience and views of the bahais and ex-bahais mentioned above. Many of their testimonies may be found on my bahai webpage below. Since bahai fundamentalists have always relied on their ability to operate one way in one country and another elsewhere and the Internet now no longer makes it possible, they have mounted a concerted campaign on Usenet to discredit and malign diverse voices. Their slandering me for "spamming" won't prevent perceptive people who even glance at the record from realizing what's really going on in their desperate attempt to prevent people in Israel, Iran, and elsewhere from knowing what is actually taking place in bahai cirlces around the world. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:35 AM Subject: Letter to the Editor - March 7, 2002 - Observer & Eccentric Newspapers - $$$$$$$$$ Letter to the Editor - March 7, 2002 - Observer & Eccentric Newspapers - Letter to the Editor - March 7, 2002 - Observer & Eccentric Newspapers - Oakland County, Michigan - Circulation 120,000. A Response to half-page Baha'i Ad. Feel free to use or customize this letter to respond to any local propaganda efforts by fundamentalists in your area since it has passed at least one editor's evaluation. (Third wealthest county in the nation.) In response to the paid half-page ad by my fellow Baha'is in your February 28 issue, which offers a website link "for more information," I believe Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan's Department of History, has a webpage of extensive and disturbing documentation that anyone interested in the Baha'i Faith should be aware of: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhdoc.htm In his book Modernity and the Millennium, published by Columbia University Press in 1998, Professor Cole observes the Baha'i administration has increasingly come under the control of fundamentalists, "stressing scriptural literalism . . . theocracy, censorship, intellectual intolerance, and denying key democratic values (196)." For numerous other views in balance to the paid ad O&E ran, I also recommend the over 50 megabytes of documentation on my own website, The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ Frederick Glaysher Rochester Hills [on page A10] ---- Appeared as O & E half-page page ad on February 28, 2002, on page A3: ---- The Destiny of America and the Promise of World Peace A Statement from the National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' of the United States At this time of world turmoil, the United States Bahß' community offers a perspective on the destiny of America as the promoter of world peace. More than a hundred years ago, Bahß'u'llßh, the founder of the Bahß' Faith, addressing heads of state, proclaimed that the age of maturity for the entire human race had come. The unity of humankind was now to be established as the foundation of the great peace that would mark the highest stage in humanity's spiritual and social evolution. Revolutionary and world-shaking changes were therefore inevitable. The Bahß' writings state: The world is moving on. Its events are unfolding ominously and with bewildering rapidity. The whirlwind of its passions is swift and alarmingly violent. The New World is insensibly drawn into its vortex. . . . Dangers, undreamt of and unpredictable, threaten it both from within and from without. Its governments and peoples are being gradually enmeshed in the coils of the world's recurrent crises and fierce controversies. . . . The world is contracting into a neighborhood. America, willingly or unwillingly, must face and grapple with this new situation. For purposes of national security, let alone any humanitarian motive, she must assume the obligations imposed by this newly created neighborhood. Paradoxical as it may seem, her only hope of extricating herself from the perils gathering around her is to become entangled in that very web of international association which the Hand of an inscrutable Providence is weaving. The American nation, Bahß' s believe, will evolve through tests and trials to become a land of spiritual distinction and leadership, a champion of justice and unity among all peoples and nations, and a powerful servant of the cause of everlasting peace. This is the peace promised by God in the sacred texts of the world's religions. Establishing peace is not simply a matter of signing treaties and protocols; it is a complex task requiring a new level of commitment to resolving issues not customarily associated with the pursuit of peace. Universal acceptance of the spiritual principle of the oneness of humankind is essential to any successful attempt to establish world peace. Racism, one of the most baneful and persistent evils, is a major barrier to peace. The emancipation of women, the achievement of full equality of the sexes, is one of the most important, though less acknowledged, prerequisites of peace. The inordinate disparity between rich and poor keeps the world in a state of instability, preventing the achievement of peace. Unbridled nationalism, as distinguished from a sane and legitimate patriotism, must give way to a wider loyalty, to the love of humanity as a whole. Religious strife, the cause of innumerable wars and conflicts throughout history, is a major obstacle to progress. The challenge facing the world's religious leaders is to contemplate, with hearts filled with compassion and the desire for truth, the plight of humanity, and to ask themselves whether they cannot, in humility before their God, submerge their theological differences in a great spirit of mutual forbearance that will enable them to work together for the advancement of human understanding and peace. Bahß' s pray, "May this American Democracy be the first nation to establish the foundation of international agreement. May it be the first nation to proclaim the unity of mankind. May it be the first to unfurl the standard of the Most Great Peace." During this hour of crisis, we affirm our abiding faith in the destiny of America. We know that the road to its destiny is long, thorny and tortuous, but we are confident that America will emerge from her trials undivided and undefeatable. ůNational Spiritual Assembly of the Bahß' s of the United States For more information and for a free copy of the booklet "The Promise of World Peace" please visit our web site at Www.us.bahai.org or call us toll free at 1-800-22-UNITE Local Phone 248-737-4006 -- https://www.us.bahai.org/world_peace/amers_destiny.html ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:36 AM Subject: bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists $$$$$$$$$$$ bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists bahai - Why I Don't Respond to bahai Fundamentalists Having observed the tactics of bahai fundamentalists for over twenty-five years, I've learnt a few things about the way they operate: 1. Always Slander, Demonize, Discredit, Shun, Ad Hominem, Smear, Scapegoat, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Silence, Harass, etc., etc., the individual.... All of which has become known as "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm 2. Lure into supposed discussion then cut the jugular. 3. Work together to create the perception for uninformed non-bahais that the individual in question is unbalanced, aberrant, "spamming," a liar, crazy, disgruntled, reprobate, etc.... 4. Change or ignore the subject by shifting to the past and arguing over who said what, when, where, how, etc.... As long as the uhj uses the "temporary measure" of "review," for over 80 years now, to suppress all free thought and discussion and encourages such unseemly tactics, attempting to discuss anything with them is simply a waste of time and energy. Many people other than myself have noted "The Bahai Technique": https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm Nobody has to read my reposts who has done so already. My Message Rules are full of bahai fundamentalists. Others may use the same technology to filter out my reposts. My reposts are intended for the uninformed and naive, exactly what enrages the extremists among my fellow bahais. Anyone interested in my views may read them in my archives or glean them from my reposts, which, in my view, preserve the historical record of how deceitful bahai fanatics have been and are willing to go.... I can only hope by serving humbly, as the self-appointed archivist/historian for talk.religion.bahai and for all the many victims of the "universal" house of "justice," that someday someone will come along who will dig deep enough into the record so that the truth will begin to surface. Impartial nonbahai observers might wish to compare and decide for themselves whether the picture fundamentalists labor so hard to paint of me is accurate or not: https://fglaysher.com/bio.htm And then ask yourself why would they go to such extremes? What is it they don't want you to know? I submit the answers may be found on my bahai website. It is my hope that the distortions of the uhj will begin to be purged, it will gradually reform itself, acknowledging the broad and liberal Teachings of Baha'u'llah that it has suppressed now for so many years.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:39 AM Subject: Re: FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions for Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai $$$$$$$$$ FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions for Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions for Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ People with only web access might want to use https://groups.google.com/ It offers reading and posting capabilities for people who can't directly access alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai. Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai An unmoderated Italian Bahai newgroup is now available: it.cultura.religioni.bahai If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly, I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg." Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting: https://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi tnum=0 David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai: https://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi tnum=3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below. Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?" ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdu'l-Baha: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and religious conscience. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.] Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?" ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here. (Three years later their NO votes are their only answer.) Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech andconscience?" ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum, the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai and the experience of TENS of THOUSANDS of Bahais and people who have left the Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai ---------------------------------------------------------------------- January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was submitted to news.announce.newgroups. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/1stRFD.htm Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO against talk.religion.bahai. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Towfiq.htm March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in effect more than a year and a half later. March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to 691 NO. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/1stRESULT.htm April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates alt.religion.bahai. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/arb.htm October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated newsgroups: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ1.htm November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA committee: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/archive.htm December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of Usenet interest polling: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UHJ2.htm January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was submitted. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/2ndRFD.htm February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES to 65 NO. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/2ndRESULT.htm May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher that contain his signature file: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb23.htm September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL removes the TOS after considering both sides of the issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening him and the experience of others: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses and the name of the poster: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srbban.htm October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House and attempts to undermine the new support for the "neutral" RFD: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb67.htm December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the 3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/3rdRFD.htm December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck1.htm January 10, 1999: Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/3rdRESULT.htm It should be noted that talk.religion.bahai eventually passed despite of the opposition of Bahais. The annotated RESULT may be read at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/3rdRESULT.htm The annotated NO voters list may be read at https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/NOvoters3rd.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community, see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:41 AM Subject: Re: soc.religion.bahai CENSORSHIP - $$$$$$$$ soc.religion.bahai CENSORSHIP - soc.religion.bahai CENSORSHIP - https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb.htm Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998: "I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb84.htm Ron House: "I think the following is a clear case of malicious rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of soc.religion.bahai." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb53.htm Timothy Mulligan: "(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those SRB moderators." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb59.htm RobertNik: "these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb54.htm Bruce Burrill: "What are Baha'i afraid of?" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb60.htm Zuteflute: "Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb50.htm YU ZIR: "But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to address." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb46.htm Matthew Cromer: "The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles which they agree with...." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb47.htm Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:"So many Bahais on these forumshave shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb77.htm Shakti3, December 4, 1998: "Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit, seeing the way these newsgroups operate." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Ex7.htm Harold Shinsato: "It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb33.htm Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998: "The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the controversy started, it has gotten worse." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb79.htm Laeterna: "To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was putting it mildly indeed." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/censored2.htm Robin Peters: "I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the face of consistent censorship." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb43.htm jgoldberg: "I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. " https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb57.htm Ruletherod, November 17, 1998: "Too much damage has already been done in the name and to the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies, linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You can't just blame it all on the critics." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb76.htm Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under soc.religion.bahai censorship. https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb.htm -- The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/ See also for an excellent introduction to the Bahai Wars: Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:42 AM Subject: Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice $$$$$$$$ Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj. Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "conscience") Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm Brief History of Douglas Martin, member of bahai uhj https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:43 AM Subject: bahai faith & its Influence on the United Nations 5/2002 $$$$$$$$$ bahai faith & its Influence on the United Nations 5/2002 bahai faith & its Influence on the United Nations 5/2002 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UNmenu.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship To understand the influence of the bahai faith on the United Nations, I suggest the reader might find it helpful to consider these documents in the following order: Doug Martin, member of the bahai universal house of justice on the United Nations: "In the highest circles of the UN, people are consulting on Baha'u'llah's issues! Baha'is coordinated the work of all the NGO's at the Millennial Summit. The permanent representative of the Baha'i International Community was the Chair. Then the BIC was called to represent all of Civil Society at the governmental Millennium Summit -- the only NGO to do so." {If interested in reading full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "UN" match case, several clicks into it)} Cf. Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm See then my messages on the bahai faith & the UN: uhj LIES to United Nations & US Government June 2000 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN.htm Bahais at United Nations Millennium Forum & Summit June 2000 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/UN2.htm Bahai international community Abuses its Access to UN MF Mailing List 4/2002 https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/OneCountry.htm Note especially at the end that the bic abused its control over MFDiscuss@yahoo.com in order to suppress my informing other Forum members of its abuse. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- After reading ALL of the above, think carefully about the influence on the UN of someone like Doug Martin who holds such a fundamentalist interpretation of the bahai faith. Does the UN know the record of the bahai faith regarding freedom of conscience within its own ranks? I would find it very worrisome if it does. My guess is that bahais at the UN, such as Techeste Ahderom, co-chair of the Millennium Forum and the principal bahai representative to the United Nations, dismiss concerns whenever they are raised by anyone within the Organization, essentially participating in deception. Brief History of Douglas Martin Professor Juan Cole, University of Michigan https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 7:50 AM Subject: The Bahai Technique - Ad Hominem, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, $$$$$$ The Bahai Technique - Ad Hominem, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, The Bahai Technique - Ad Hominem, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Backbite, Defame, Vilify, Ostracize, Discredit, Smear, Shun, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc., etc.... ------------------------------------------------------------------ During the last decade or two a number of observers have noted common methods many fundamentalist Bahais use to avoid various issues or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own: ------------------------------------------------------------------ OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY. "Scapegoat (Lev. xvi) 1. Invented by Tindale 1530.... One of the two goats that was chosen by Lot to be sent away into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it, while the other was appointed to be sacrificed. 2. One who is blamed or punished for the sins of others. 1867 Freeman, He has been made the scapegoat for many of the sins both of other individuals and of the whole nation." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scapegoat.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ Professor Juan Cole, University of Michigan, June 12, 1998: "Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB [Covenant Breaker (heretic)] to silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect racket. Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case, either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole10.htm Professor Juan Cole, February 23, 1999: "There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear the sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to being "Baha'i" at all). Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'isor when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith. The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to a heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall silent. With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy, of "claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted, twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,' and even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by *Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them. This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all the talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot refute. Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years. He can explain it to you." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Cole71.htm Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992: "The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [since 1976]. The usual stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself, which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the Truth." https://fglaysher.com/LettersAmD1989-1994.htm Frederick Glaysher, June 1998: "Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai, ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to talk.religion.bahai." Ron House, November 14, 1997: "I know what you mean. I've found over the years that there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so much he says something intemperate, then point out how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this technique works, so I've been making a conscious effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions. At any other time, they would overlook faults, as Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode they go for the jugular.Very sad." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/House2.htm Fran Baker, May 1998: "Just have to say that in my experience this is a common technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a groupacts this way. Very scary." Dermod Ryder, September 19, 2001: "And then Eureka! I realised why Fred gets the treatment he does . . . for Fred has painstakingly not only assembled the evidence of the canker within but he constantly publicises it to the extent that he really gets up noses and AO noses at that! . . . I basically agree with him that the AO terrorises people - terror is more than bombs or kamikaze aircraft. A whispered aside in the right circumstances can instil terror (like a threat to be made a CB) - most ethnic cleansing is carried out by a piece of "good" advice to the effect that one would be better off NOT living in this neighbourhood, from a gentleman who is known or assumed to have the "right connections" to ensure the advice is heeded. Twenty years ago the AO tried that particular threatening tactic on with me and were told where they could stick it! Others can also testify to that including Dennis Rogers whose experiences were posted on TRB recently. And you guys hate Fred for this, for his continued exposing of the sewer that the AO has become. Of course you all hate Juan, Alison, Michael, Nima etc as well and for the same reason and give them the same treatment but somewhat reduced for they don't post as much as Fred who is just a real pain in the butt for doing what he does so well! Fred is an avid counter terrorist and he's good at it as the whimpering from the BIGS proves!" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Ryder2001.htm Dermod Ryder, February 28, 2002: "This is what is known as the "love bomb" technique. Disregard and entirely ignore the substance of any complaint or criticism and throw out this carpet of "bahai love" which will overwhelm the reason and appeal to the emotion. I've been vaccinated! What I also glean from recourse to this technique is that there is no answer to the points I raised. In effect you guys who support the AO do so through thick and thin to the point where you cannot and will not admit that it has any faults of any substantive value. Because guys like me cannot agree with you - the fault is obviously ours." K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998: "If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty] were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in their condemnations of their fellow believers, I would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've "got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not character assassination by innuendo, what is?" https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Johnson18.htm Mr Mahdi, November 14, 2000: "The extremism of those who are trying to get Fred Glaysher off the Internet is beyond any rational justification, for the simple fact that Fred does not use any lewd or obscene language nor does he post irrelevant topics that are not worthy of discussion. Bahais seem to be so obsessed at maintaining their superficial "progressive" image that anything that exposes the . . . hypocrisy of the bahai faith are suppressed and attacked, in order for the bahais to keep deceiving people into thinking that these are unwarranted and baseless attacks and accusations which hold no weight in reality." Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it, is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as "negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them. When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs of its members in the first place."https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb73.htm Steven Scholl, March 12, 2002: "The problem in her [Susan Maneck] cult view of the world is the "dissident act" of shining a light on internal Baha'i affairs so that outsiders (and insiders) can learn about what really takes place in the Baha'i world. The great sin is ignoring the Baha'i taboo against speaking out against internal injustices because to do so is to tarnish the reputation of the Baha'i institutions. Good Baha'is are expected to take their abuse in silence. If they speak out against abuse, they are regarded as internal opposition and come under investigation from the Baha'i Inquisition. They are villified and threatened, even told that their status in the afterlife is threatened if they don't change their ways. And, yes, this was a key element [in] the little drama that played out between the Baha'i leadership and myself." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl4.htm David Langness, 31 Mar 1997: "I would advise you to be careful about any meetings, calls or correspondence with Hoda Mahmoudi, who used to be an ABM here in Southern California. She is quite conservative, and sees herself -- as do many of the appointed branch, sadly -- as a staunch defender of the Faith and the faithful, able and more than willing to marginalize people like you and I to discredit our ideas. This cultlike practice of shunning and casting out any dissidents has unfortunately become the chief tactic of those fundamentalist Baha'is bent on maintaining the current leadership. My worry is that the more progressive Baha'is like Juan Cole and Steve Scholl and yourself will all leave the Faith and thereby increase the power of the conservatives." https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/Langness.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------- LaAeterna on the fundamentalist silencing of opponents: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/srb65.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------- https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm See this article for an excellent introduction to the Bahai Wars: Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 7:14 AM Subject: Re: BI*P*GS@liberty.com is a troll. > "Mark Elderkin" wrote in message > news:adu1c9$e15$1@austar-news.austar.net.au... > > > > Dernut, The maligning of people's names shouldn't be done or condoned either. Many of the fundamentalists resort to using derogatory forms, apparently out of frustration, in their attempts to discredit people or make them appear ridiculous. It's quite reprehensible and clearly a pattern for some of them, tacitly supported by others. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 7:31 AM Subject: "Dangerous delusion from Christianity" = Individual Conscience - $$$ Doug Martin, member of bahai universal house of justice: "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith." -Doug Martin, member of bahai uhj. Full text: https://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html (Edit>Find > "conscience") Individual conscience = " dangerous delusion from Christianity" 9/23/2001 Doug Martin, uhj member https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm Compare what Abdu'l-Baha has to say on conscience: https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship/AbdulB1.htm Brief History of Douglas Martin, member of bahai uhj https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/talisman/dmartin.htm See this article for an excellent introduction to the Bahai Wars: Professor Juan Cole's "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 7:53 AM Subject: Re: SMOKING GUN - Re: AOL - New Fundamentalist Tactic SEE below for the latest intrigue on AOL: > Some people here on AOL's bahai Message Boards are now speculating that the > fundamentalists among my fellow bahais have decided to kill these boards by > NOT posting to them so that AOL will simply delete the entire system for > lack of sufficient particpation. The IRONY is the fanatics have DRIVEN > people off the boards by hounding and harassing them into oblivion! > > Those concerned about this latest tactic might want to post before it's too > late! > > -- > Frederick Glaysher > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > Subject: Re: What's this all about? Date: 5/31/2002 12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: LDRS LFST Shahid Message-id: <20020531123112.07494.00000134@mb-bg.aol.com> > >What's going on with this folder? Just curious.... > Dear Wendy, Glad you asked. The current standard for removal of folders is two weeks with 10 postings or less. The reasoning is that with 25 million members, if a folder cannot generate at least on post per day, then the subject/topic is dead. This is very reasonable when you consider that many of our folders are generating in excess of 20-50 posts per day and some are generating hundreds of posts per day. However, because some of the communities are struggling to increase activity, rather than remove these folders, they are moved to an "About to leave us" folder where the membership can have another chance at rejuvenating them. If the activity increases, they can be moved back to the appropriate folder. If not, they will be permanently removed. LDRS LFST Shahid Volunteer Message Board Host AOL Keyword: Baha'i "Bahai Faith" wrote in message news:adt06b$233am$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > would like an explanation WHY this post was deleted. What are you trying to > hide and suppress, as though we don't all know.... > > > ----- > LDRS LFST Shahid > Volunteer Message Board Leader > Lifestyles Community > > ======== Copy of Your Message ======== > > Subject: Discussing about the lack of participation on this message board > Date: 6/7/2002 7:27 PM Central Daylight Time > From: Mr Mahdi > Message-id: <20020607202737.01905.00000437@mb-fx.aol.com> > > > I would like for the people here to discuss the reasons why the Bahai > Message Board on AOL is becoming less active. We should also discuss what > is needed to rectify the situation. > > I personally believe that certain people have been driven away from these > boards. I remember these boards back in 1998 where it was EXTREMELY active. > People were allowed to express their views and as a result, the boards had > thousands of posts. Intellectual contributions were common and food for > thought became something we saw everyday back then. > > But after a certain former leader returned from a hiatus, this message board > had become a place of extreme double-standards and intolerance. Open but > civil and intellectual discussions were being suppressed. Members even had > their accounts canceled or at least suspended after posting non-TOSable > messages because the content and the person posting did not sit well with > the forum leader(s). > > For these and many other reasons, many members of AOL, including myself, > decided to either post here less frequently or not post here at all. This > is unfortunate because if this board was like the early days when I was on, > it would be probably 100s of times more active and even beneficial for the > readership. > > We need to start discussing the issues so that we can improve this message > board before it is shutdown forever due to lack of participation. > > > Mahdi Muhammad > > > > > > > > > Frederick Glaysher > www.google.com Search Engine: > Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > > > > "BIGS - Bahai in *Perfectly* Good Standing" > wrote in message news:adrgkq$1qqsl$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > Subject: Re: What's this all about? > > Date: 5/31/2002 12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time > > From: LDRS LFST Shahid > > Message-id: <20020531123112.07494.00000134@mb-bg.aol.com> > > > > > > > > > >What's going on with this folder? Just curious.... > > > > > > > Dear Wendy, > > > > Glad you asked. The current standard for removal of folders is two weeks > > with 10 postings or less. The reasoning is that with 25 million members, > if > > a folder cannot generate at least on post per day, then the subject/topic > is > > dead. This is very reasonable when you consider that many of our folders > are > > generating in excess of 20-50 posts per day and some are generating > hundreds > > of posts per day. > > > > However, because some of the communities are struggling to increase > > activity, rather than remove these folders, they are moved to an "About > to > > leave us" folder where the membership can have another chance at > > rejuvenating them. If the activity increases, they can be moved back to > the > > appropriate folder. If not, they will be permanently removed. > > LDRS LFST Shahid > > Volunteer Message Board Host > > AOL Keyword: Baha'i > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Bahai Faith" wrote in message > > news:adqbgv$1gun4$1@ID-75545.news.dfncis.de... > > > Some people here on AOL's bahai Message Boards are now speculating that > > the > > > fundamentalists among my fellow bahais have decided to kill these boards > > by > > > NOT posting to them so that AOL will simply delete the entire system for > > > lack of sufficient particpation. The IRONY is the fanatics have DRIVEN > > > people off the boards by hounding and harassing them into oblivion! > > > > > > Those concerned about this latest tactic might want to post before it's > > too > > > late! > > > > > > -- > > > Frederick Glaysher > > > The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience > > > https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 7:55 AM Subject: Re: More Beliefnet Shenanigans Karen, All VERY familiar.... -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:ug8i5co87fv2c6@corp.supernews.com... > Dear Pat, > > Since we've been talking here about the goings-on on Beliefnet, and the harm > caused by the fanatics who frequent the place, I couldn't help but think of > you when I saw the most recent fiasco. A seeker came to the main Baha'i > board, asking about the prophecy that the Baha'i dispensation would be "the > day not followed by night". A Remeyite answered, quoting Shoghi Effendi > about it meaning the continuing guidance of the line of Guardians. So our > friends Dust and Effy (who is Pith again now) reacted so hysterically that > this young lady was quite turned off -- then the board host moved the thread > to the "Twin Pillars" board, which so upset her that she is now hanging out > with American Baha'i in his territory. She said she wanted out of the UHJ > side of the Baha'i boards because of its "negative energy", and you know, I > couldn't blame her one single bit. With friends like this, the Cause > doesn't need enemies. I hope they're real happy with themselves, driving a > seeker straight into the arms of a Remeyite. > > You know, all those little splinter groups would have to do would be to stop > endlessly harping on the Guardianship, and open up a little bit, and they'd > have real growth potential -- just because of the bigotry and stupidity of > people who think they're loyal to the UHJ. > > Karen > https://www.bacquet.tk > > -- > "The essence of all that We have revealed for thee is Justice . . ." -- > Baha'u'llah > Pat Kohli wrote in message > news:3D014EE3.EEC28AF5@ameritel.net... > > > > > > Karen Bacquet wrote: > > > > > . > > > > > > > > How would I know? I thought it was lucky that I found out > Pithy/Effie's > > > name. > > > > > > I knew his name because he let it drop he'd been booted off Baha'i > > > Studies -- I later found out it was because of "scholar-baiting" which > is > > > against the list rules there. > > > > > > > I was hoping he had just had the one thing and was going to finally clean > up his > > act. Oh well. > > > > > (snip) > > > > > > > > Probably. Although, if you remember, a more moderate person was trying > to > > > get the fundamentalists there to actually pay attention to what the > House > > > has said about Internet behavior, and they turned on him as being in > cahoots > > > with the liberals, just as they did you. > > > > David, Steve, or Rod? > > > > > However, Pith/Effy/Fred is quiet > > > these days -- no way to tell why, though. You're right that if he ever > got > > > called on the carpet by an ABM, he'd be unlikely to report it. > > > > > > > > > > > > These people are > > > > > far more harmful to the Faith than any liberal ever thought about > being. > > > > > > > > It is relative. To me they seem for more liberal than Fred, just as > > > > liberal as you or Juan. > > > > > > Um, you lost me there. > > > > > > > (shrug) It is one of those things that you see if you stand just so and > look off > > in just that way, so, I shouldn't expect you will see it. The thing is, > some of > > those folks on the outs with the AO, don't look particularly liberal to > me, and > > some of those who get all nasty to those they disagree with, don't seem > all that > > conservative. I understand we will disagree on 'who is a liberal'. D95 > seems > > very comfortable flaunting the guidance of the Master in the "Will and > > Testament". To me, this is a liberal interpretation, and therefore he > could be > > a liberal. That he has made himself memorable through tangential personal > > attacks against so many Baha'is, (NoW and Rod, to name just a few) does > not, in > > my mind make him conservative. Perhaps you have nailed the 'acid test' > though, > > a semblance of loyalty to the AO, through the appearance of no direct > > challenges. It is also possible that his 'doing things his own way and to > hell > > with the rest', is a challenge to the AO, and he just doesn't acknowledge > it, > > directly. Well, you are there on B-net, as a host (how could that > be??????), so > > you can see what happens. My guess is that if he did get counselled by > the AO, > > he would write about 'those so and soes w/ too much time on their hands, > making > > mischief for the D-meister' and, 'there was a time when being an ABM, or > even an > > assistant meant something and now any twit that falls off the apple cart > will > > shake their finger at the oh so low D-ness'. Let me know when he does get > his. > > > > > > > > Bad manners, and even an anti-social disposition does not 'place' > > > > someone on the liberal - moderate - conservative - reactionary > continuum. > > > Look > > > > at me! Some, are not themselves directly ill mannered, but are > tolerant, > > > and > > > > this leaves the impression that we have no discipline in our > community. > > > Most of > > > > the heavy complaints I read here, are of two much discipline - order > over > > > law. > > > > Sometimes, Rod's being a classic example, the complaint is this > atmosphere > > > of so > > > > much tolerance, some individuals can get away with being quite > abusive, > > > and the > > > > NM lawsuit seems to reflect a bit of this, too. > > > > > > What I see a problem with is the kind of behavior that provokes an AO > > > response -- it seems very personalized. Some people can get away with a > > > lot; others are called on the carpet for doing virtually nothing. > > > > If I were called to account for anything I did on the internet, I could > tell any > > counsellor, or any disillusioned Baha'i, that though I may have done some > stuff > > wrong, and someone else could have done it better, w/ God as my witness, I > could > > have done it w/ Baha'u'llah on my right and the Bab on my left, and maybe > I > > did. Years ago, I would never have reported misbehaving Baha'is to ABMs. > After > > time on the internet, where I have seen so much of it done right out in > public, > > I will. If people want to say 'you can't trust Kohli, he's a snitch', > fine; but > > anything done in plain view (not an email), is fair game. If someone > wants to > > bid adieu to a web board after being a rectal sphincter, and get a new > handle, > > and then three months latter get loud and call someone else a vampire, > flitting > > about in the night, I will let them have it. And even though unenrolled > folks > > have no AO to get reported to, when they make rectal sphincters of > themselves > > they will get 'it', too. Like Dirty Harry, I consdier myself an equal > > opportunity rectal sphincter. Only when people draw the line, does a > standard > > get enforced. > > > > > > > > > Again, when would I hear about that? Mr. Self Appointed VoG is very > > > likely to > > > > get abruptly corrected in public when he does his thing in public. > But he > > > > doesn't even post here. > > > > > > This was the most serious case, because this guy was abusing his power, > and > > > there had complaints about him for years that went unanswered -- to the > > > point a lawsuit was filed. Last I heard, the complainant in that > lawsuit > > > has been assured that the "situation is being addressed". > > > > > > > I've seen people, even other than myself, wax fat headed at a local > convention, > > and get politely cut off at the knees. If he lived out here, and told 200 > > Baha'is he was the VoG, he would earn the humiliation of hearing quite > clearly > > that God had spoken in the nineteenth century and that is the _only_ voice > of > > God that we Baha'is would even listen to! And I'd look him dead in the > eye > > while I spoke into the microphone! "situation is being addressed"? > > > > The guy plays the psycho, he gets told to take his lithium, next case! > > > > > > > > Imagine, though, some guy with the handle "hq" posts > > > > here about how he was publically humilated at a district convention, > by an > > > > assistant for protection. How long w/ him hainging around you online > > > before you > > > > figure out he is "Hurting in 'Querque" because the Baha'is don't heed > his > > > call? > > > > There are people who have legitimate complaints, I'm sure, but when he > > > gets his, > > > > and does whine about it, the only way you know he had it coming, maybe > > > even > > > > earned it, is because you heard the other side of the story first. > > > > > > Hey, Pat, I've asked about "the other side of the story" concerned the > > > liberal cases, and all I get is silence or bullshit.(btw, I finally did > get > > > answer to my query to the NSA about Dialogue -- they just told me I > didn't > > > sufficiently understand Baha'i principles.) I spent a long time trying > to > > > find out what was so horrible about the people who got in trouble, and > would > > > have been ready to revise my opinion if I'd found anything solid. I > never > > > found squat. Anyway, I'm not advocating the public humiliation of > anyone -- > > > Mr. Voice of God is as entitled to due process as anyone else. > > > > Rod has complained that his community has forced him to tolerate abuse > from a > > community member who slanders him. Nothing gets done about Rod's > complaints > > maybe because he is sane. Is that a 'liberal' case? Fred Glaysher gets > dropped > > from the rolls. Is that a liberal case? > > > > People humiliate themselves in public, no one can do that for them. When > > someone tells Mr. VoG, politely tells Mr. VoG that he has no reason to > hang w/ > > us, and no clue, if he want to tell Baha'is that he is the VoG, it really > is not > > the humiliation; that was already done when he walked out in public having > peeed > > himself. > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know when the > > > > > guy in Britain who's going around teaching that Baha'u'llah is God > who > > > sent > > > > > the rest of the Messengers is summarily disenrolled for > "aggressively > > > > > disseminating misconceptions" about the Teachings. > > > > > > > > Not only do I not know that guy's name, I can't even relate him to > some > > > lawsuit, > > > > or incident I witnessed. I'm guessing the ABM and/or assistant has > > > already told > > > > them they are rocking the boat? > > > > > > Not that I've heard. I've only recently been told his name privately, > but > > > I'd heard about this case before on Baha'i Studies. He's collected > quite a > > > following among the Persians in Britain, and the impression I get is > that > > > he's been doing this for a good while now. Now, I'm the last person to > > > advocate someone getting in trouble for their theological views, however > > > wacky. But imagine what would happen if a liberal started identifying > the > > > Maid of Heaven with God, and collected a following -- they'd move pretty > > > rapidly, I suspect. It's not a matter that I think this guy should be > > > punished, but of fairness. What I'm seeing is that you can be as kooky > as > > > you want to be as long as you give lip-service to the idea of obedience > to > > > the Institutions, while those who present well-thought-out ideas that > might > > > challenge what is perceived to be their authority are toast. It's like > it's > > > the administration that is sacred -- everything else is dispensible. > > > > Aha! This is a much better acid test than pleasantness or 'the > Manifestation as > > the person of God, or the Unmanifest as the Person of God' or 'the > Mainfestation > > as very god'. Yet, there are some who clearly overdo it, like the > original > > Monseiur Chauvin. It seems to me the AO overdo, as in "the House should > never > > be questioned" is just as bad as the underdo, as in, "I don't have to do > what > > they say, because they have no Guardian". You may be right that w/in the > AO, > > the overdo is more acceptable than the underdo, but I find them equally > weak. > > > > Blessings! > > - Pat > > kohli@ameritel.net > > > > ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 6:51 AM Subject: Re: More Beliefnet Shenanigans "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:ug9dnah0ae2dbf@corp.supernews.com... > More than one seeker who has come to those > boards has been turned off by the fundamentalism they find there -- and the > fundamentalists blame everybody but themselves. So true - here as well as on BeliefNet, AOL, everywhere in bahai cyberspace, I dare say. You're quite right that everyone else is blamed with little to no real humility and soul-searching apparently going on by the fundamentalists. I've watched this online for nearly six years now, SIX! Appalling, really. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 8:02 AM Subject: What Does It Mean to Be a Baha'i? "Freethought110" wrote in message news:newscache$09lixg$0i21$1@elise.onthenet.com.au... > Fred, as far as I am concerned, is providing an invaluable service to the > general public by providing information to the community at large and not > allowing the issues to die or be buried under the rug as the Baha'i > fundamentalists would ardently wish them to be. In my book, he's a true > believer, and tough luck to those who think otherwise! > Nima, I appreciate your saying all of the above. I would like to think I'm a true believer, in the best moderate sense, not that of Eric Hoffer. Only God knows the soul, as Abdu'l-Baha says, "Convictions and ideas are within the scope of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings; and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants." A Traveler's Narrative, 91. Likewise I take solace in "If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts, it is very praiseworthy...." Abdu'l-Baha, SAQ, 215. I feel it is my duty as a Baha'i to share with my fellow Baha'is and citizens what has and is actually taking place within bahai circles versus the many distortions and dishonesties that now run rife throughout the isolated bahai world. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 8:06 AM Subject: Re: More Beliefnet Shenanigans "Karen Bacquet" wrote in message news:ugbot5ldmm0mad@corp.supernews.com... > > However, I'm still Baha'i enough that I would regret to see the splits that > exist in the Faith become major schisms. I'd far rather see constructive > change, as faint a hope as that may be. > Faint, indeed. I see no evidence that the administration, in the grip of fundamentalism, has the spiritual capacity to handle effectively any degree of change whatsoever. Entrenchment has long been their only response. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: Re: More Beliefnet Shenanigans "Randy Burns" wrote in message news:rgoN8.15439$gs4.8354@nwrddc02.gnilink.net... This brings up the possibility of > Haifan Baha'is taking a more aggressive approach to the groups they term > "covenant breakers" and the possibility of arrests and imprisonment for > enemies of the faith in any nation where credence is given to Haifan claims. > > Perhaps this is the only type of occurrence which could lead to necessary > Haifan reforms. > I'm not convinced that even such oppression would lead to reform. Professor Juan Cole is too optimistic in my view too when he says in his new Fundamentalism article that "The signs are, then, that conservative Baha'i are beginning to back off from what some adherents see as undue intervention in individual email correspondence." https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm There are no such significant signs my opinion, quite the reverse. It is very easy to underestimate the recalcitrance and arrogance of the prevailing fundamentalists now in control. Cole himself states what is widely known: that former nsa member Daniel Jordan was a liberal. However, Cole errs in referring to his "death." Jordan's *MURDER* was referred to as a professonal execution style murder in the press in 1982. I am not convinced that Jordan didn't find out or know something that some fanatic, with or without the approval of the bahai administration, felt had to be suppressed. Since it remains an unsolved murder, nothing should be ruled out, especially given the administration's actions throughout the Bahai Wars. Only real and substantive EVIDENCE will ever convince me that significant change is or has taken place. -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:21 AM Subject: Religious Studies Review - "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" - 2002 See Professor Juan Cole's article for an excellent introduction to the Bahai Wars: "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm "There are two problems for Baha'i fundamentalists. The first, already noted, is that Baha'u'llah's own writings, and those of `Abdu'l-Baha are frankly anti-theocratic. The second is that in Baha'i law, oral traditions are supposed to be discounted in favor of written texts. Fundamentalists thus tend to retreat into generalities when explaining their belief, since they lack scriptural support." -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship ---------- From: Bahai Faith[SMTP:BI*P*GS@liberty.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 7:26 AM Subject: Khomeinist - Religious Studies Review - "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community" - 2002 See Professor Juan Cole's article for an excellent introduction to the Bahai Wars: "Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community," Religious Studies Review 2002: https://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm "Baha'i fundamentalists share many ideals in common with the Khomeinist interpretation of Shi`ite Islam, their parent religion, which also seeks governmental authority for the religious institution.... As with Islamic fundamentalism, then, one key trend is the insistence on divine governance and rejection of its negative counterpart, the modern secular state (Arjomand in Marty and Appleby 1995, 5:184)." -- Frederick Glaysher The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://members.fortunecity.com/bahaicensorship