This file is the oldest export of Outlook Express that I have
saved - 10-24-99. Many prior posts and files lost during system
crashes. Many duplications may exist in subsequent or other achives.
Some posts simply never made it into an archive.
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 8:48 AM
Subject: AOL Bahai Forums - Steve Case, Mark Foster
Dear Mr. Foster:
I and others on AOL would appreciate your
resigning from your position [as Forum Leader] so that something
may begin to improve. We have been discussing
periodically since at least August your disapperance
and now ask you to step down.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the trb CFV ballot.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the trb CFV ballot.
-------------
Rough Draft to Steve Case:
Dear Mr. Case,
There are serious and long standing problems with the
way the Bahai Forums are run. As members of AOL,
who pay $21.95 a month, we're concerned that AOL is
permitting unknowingly a very high level of censorship
and manipulation to take place by essentially religious
zealots who will not permit others to speak their minds.
As members, former members, or non-members of the
Bahai Faith, we have witnessed censorship practiced by
Bahais in many forums on and off the Internet. We presently
are attempting to create an unmoderated newsgroup,
talk.religion.bahai on Usenet. Frederick Glaysher's web
site documents numerous abuses by Bahais of the human
rights of members and non-Bahais:
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
We ask you to investigate the situation on the AOL Forums
and appoint someone as Forum Leader who will be a fair and
objective person allowing all opinions to find expression
and not abuse their duties in favor of fanatical views or perhaps
appoint two or three people to counterbalance one another
with veto power so that at least some kind of system of checks
and balances might exists to protect people from the tyranny
of past Bahai Forum Leaders.
At the very least, we feel the resolution must allow the following
changes under the Bahai Forums which some members have
been advocating since the middle of August 1998:
alt.religion.bahai and any new future newsgroups on the Bahai
Faith, such as talk.religion.bahai, should it pass, ought to be
added to the list of available Newsgroups under Bahai
Libraries should finally function and accept all postings to them
of any point of view uncensored by the Forum Leader.
Such web sites as Frederick Glaysher's The Bahai Faith &
Religious Freedom of Conscience should be added to Links
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm and any other
link suggested by an AOL member ought to be automatically
added to the list and not censored for religious reasons.
We know that the Bahai AOL Forums have had a stormy
history. We hope that you will help us find a lasting solution to
these profound problems of religious freedom and conscience.
At the moment, we believe the "frozen" nature of the Bahai
Forums very much plays into the hands of those opposed to
freedom of speech and hope a compromise can be reached
allowing for a new atmosphere of openness and toleration on
AOL's Bahai Forums.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the trb CFV ballot.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 7:14 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: My Response to AOL Shawna T
Subj: Bahai Forums - Why Susan Maneck should be made Message Board Manager
Date: 12/16/1998 7:12:29 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
To: ShawnnaT
CC: Fglaysher
Shawnna T
Office of the Chairman
Dear Shawnna,
Thank you for acknowledging my message to Mr. Case.
I appreciate your re-routing it to the appropriate person
as AOL and I look forward to hearing from him or her.
Since my original message to you efforts by some Bahais
to use the AOL forums to undermine the Usenet system
of interest polling on talk.religion.bahai have only increased,
especially by Susan Maneck. It's a very complicated
situation with a long and tulmultous history on AOL.
I trust the person you're referring me to will have the
patience and tenacity to help improve the Bahai Forums.
Respectfully,
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the "trb CFV."
------
Subj: Bahai Forums - Why Susan Maneck should be made Message Board Manager
Date: 12/15/1998 9:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: Steve Case
To: Fglaysher
Dear fglaysher,
I am responding to your letter on behalf of Steve Case. Thank you for taking
the time to write to us.
We appreciate member feedback because it is the best way for us to know what
we are doing right -- and what we could do better.
I have passed your comments to the appropriate person at America Online.
Please feel free to write us again at any time.
Sincerely,
Shawnna T
Office of the Chairman
-------------------------
Dear Mr. Case:
The continuing serious negelect of the Bahai Forums
would not be solved in the best interest of all AOL members
by appointing Susan Maneck. My experience with her on a
scholar mailing list h-bahai at the University of Michigan and
her recent attacks on the creation of talk.religion.bahai on
Usenet convince me that she would not be a fair arbiter. She
has recently threatened to violate Usenet interest poll custom
by calling for a NO vote against the proposed newsgroup
talk.religion.bahai, which has been defeated in the past by
a massive NO vote campaign mounted by other Bahais in a
similar fashion: http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
I hope you will help find a solution to prevent another such Bahai
from having control over the free speech and conscience of AOL
members.
Specifically she has continued to ignore my and others' concerns
about 3 key areas. I've clipped them out of the REVISED PETITION:
alt.religion.bahai and any new future newsgroups on the Bahai
Faith, such as talk.religion.bahai, should it pass, ought to be
added to the list of available Newsgroups under Bahai
Libraries should finally function and accept all postings to them
of any point of view uncensored by the Forum Leader.
Such web sites as Frederick Glaysher's The Bahai Faith &
Religious Freedom of Conscience should be added to Links
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm and any other
link suggested by an AOL member ought to be automatically
added to the list and not censored for religious reasons.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the "trb CFV."
-----Original Message-----
From: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu
<fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>; house@usq.edu.au <house@usq.edu.au>;
johnwalker@ozemail.com.au <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>;
fran@amber.crhc.uiuc.edu <fran@amber.crhc.uiuc.edu>; smaneck@stetson.edu
<smaneck@stetson.edu>; rdsteph@ibm.net <rdsteph@ibm.net>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 5:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: talk.religion.bahai]
>Resending this to all due to a typo I made in Susan's email address.
>--Fran
>
>Fran Baker wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, Susan, but sometimes an appeal to courtesy is not appropriate.
>> I have to let my coproponents know what you are planning to do.
>> I can't believe you are letting a personality conflict resulting
>> from a passionate disagreement color your judgment in what is
>> essentially a human rights issue. You have crossed a line here.
>>
>> --Fran
>>
>> PS Who is rdsteph@ibm.net? Hi, whoever you are!
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: talk.religion.bahai
>> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:31:28 -0500
>> From: "Susan Maneck " <smaneck@stetson.edu>
>> To: rdsteph@ibm.net
>> CC: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>>
>> Dear Ron and Fran,
>>
>> I am seriously contemplating calling for a "no" vote on
>> talk.religion.bahai. I wanted to contact you first and explain to you
>> my rationale because I know this is something you have both
>> worked hard for. In the past I have not participated in the votes at
>> all. I wouldn't vote for it because I wanted nothing to do with a list
>> promoted by Fred and I felt that there ought to be the requisite
>> number of 150 truly interested individuals to form it. On the other
>> hand, I would not vote now because I thought it wrong because I
>> did not think that an unmoderated list should be opposed in
>> principle. Now, however, I find the manner in which Fred is going
>> about seeking to establish this list to be more than I can stomach
>> and publicly calling for a "no" vote appears to be the only way to
>> register the extent of our outrage against this kind of behaviour.
>> What I refer to specifically is the campaign of slander and calumny
>> against not only the Institutions, but against myself and the Bahai
>> Studies list. As you know, he accuses this list and me of
>> censorship, which you yourself know is not true. He is also trying
>> to prevent my managing the Baha'i Message Board of AOL for the
>> same reason. He constantly spams that Board making any
>> genuine discussions virtually impossible.
>>
>> I'm going to sit on this a couple of days and give myself a cooling
>> off period before taking any action, but I've really had it "up to here"
>> with this jerk.
>>
>> Please do me the courtesy of not forwarding this message to Fred
>> (although you may convey my sentiments and my intentions). I do
>> not care to see it up in his website tomorrow.
>>
>> warmest, Susan
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 9:47 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: 3 Issues
Subject: 3 Issues
Date: 12/27/1998 9:28 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
Message-id: <19981227092856.12903.00001848@ng-fd1.aol.com>
At the end of 1998, the 3 Issues remain here on the Bahai
Forum:
alt.religion.bahai added to newsgroups
Libraries functioning and accepting all postings to them and
uncensored by Bahais.
My web site The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
added to Web Sites and all others freely accepted as well:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
baha'i
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 8:44 AM
To: talisman; bahai-faith @ egroups.com
Subject: Antinomies - Robert Browning, Dostoevsky
From a May 1992 letter:
I've been reading lately a narrative poem by Robert
Browning, "Bishop Blougram's Apology." I've read it a number of
times over the years, and it's one that I continue to think
about. The character of the bishop is partly based on John Henry
Newman and another contemporary figure in the Roman Catholic
Church, the latter of whom was especially noted for his abuse of
power and position. Over dinner, the bishop justifies his
corruption to a young journalist who has noticed his calculation,
insincerity, and hypocrisy. In much of the poem, Browning is
dealing with the nature of religious doubt. While the bishop is
a hypocrite who embraces Catholicism because it gives him "cabin
comforts" and the "estimation" of the masses, the journalist is
charmingly naive in his insistence that religious faith should be
"absolute." In a marvelous passage Browning recognizes the
complex duality of the human soul:
No, when the fight begins within himself,
A man's worth something. God stoops o'er his head,
Satan looks up between his feet--both tug--
He's left, himself, i' the middle: the soul wakes
And grows. Prolong that battle through his life!
Never leave growing till the life to come!
ll. 690
Putting this truth in a sophist's mouth, Browning probes much
deeper into the struggle for faith than the "pious" usually allow
themselves. To my mind, the health of the spirit requires that
freedom--given by God--to doubt and question and probe every
single dogma of religion in its oppressively organized phase. On
the other hand, Browning's point is partly that doubt itself,
like evil and suffering, is a test of one's belief, for mature
belief can only grow out of the struggle with doubt.
There is something deeply, inescapably, eternally
dialectical in the human being and in the very nature of
existence, the way it develops, evolves, progresses.
Dostoevsky, in his chapter "The Grand Inquisitor," In The
Brothers Karamazov, meditates dialectically on the dilemma of
free will and obedience to religious authority. Christ returns
during the Spanish Inquisition and is imprisoned by the Grand
Inquisitor who accuses Christ of leading men into confusion by
giving them freedom of choice and conscience. The Grand
Inquisitor informs Christ that
We have corrected Your work and have now founded it on
miracle, mystery, and authority. And men rejoice at
being led like cattle again, with the terrible gift of
freedom that brought them so much suffering removed
from them.
The Inquisitor goes on to tell Christ that man's "greatest need
on earth" is "to find someone to worship, someone who can relieve
him of the burden of his conscience, thus enabling him finally to
unite into a harmonious ant-hill where there are no dissenting
voices. . . ." In place of individual responsibility to God, the
Inquisitor promises to free mankind from "the frightening torment
they know today when they have to decide for themselves how to
act." Christ listens to this sophist without uttering a word,
and then, at the end, before being allowed to leave, rises and
kisses the Inquisitor. Ivan, a nihilist, who relates this story,
asserts all too accurately that in the modern world "everything
is permitted." The Grand Inquisitor, grasping for power, a
character to whom Nietzsche must have responded deeply, "doesn't
believe in God." Dostoevsky knew these rich tensions were part
of human nature. At times, the Bahá'í administration grossly
fails to understand that Bahá'u'lláh has also blessed humankind
with this burden of freedom and responsibility.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 8:00 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Antinomies - Frodo, Prospero
Frodo:
"But I have been too deeply hurt, Sam. I tried to save the Shire,
and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam,
when things are in danger; some one has to give them up, lose
them, so that others may keep them. But you are my heir...."
Prospero:
"Now my charms are all o'erthrown,
And what strength I have's mine own,
Which is most faint....
But release me from my bands,
With the help of your good hands.
Gentle breath of yours my sails
Must fill, or else my project fails,
Which was to please. Now I want
Spirits to enforce, art to enchant;
And my ending is despair
Unless I be relieved by prayer,
Which pierces so, that it assaults
Mercy itself, and frees all faults.
As you from crimes would pardoned be,
Let your indulgence set me free."
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 8:23 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Antinomies - Milosz
"It appears that my oeuvre is Christian and even (practically)
irreproachable according to the criteria of Catholic theology.
I am not so sure, though I like to hear this. Certainly, it stands
out against the background of twentieth century poetry, also
Polish poetry, which is agnostic or atheist. Yet the religious
content of my poems is not the result of design by a believer;
it grew out of my doubts, turmoil, and despair, as they
searched for a form. If not for a strong heretical seasoning,
the religious content would not have been there. Thus, my
resistance to being squeezed into the rubric of "Catholic
poet" was well founded."
Czeslaw Milosz, Road-side Dog
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 8:50 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: soc.religion.bahai - brief quotations
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:19 PM
Subject: Abdul-Baha on conscience & liberty
"These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is
sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of
ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the
secrets of the contingent world."
Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 6:38 AM
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: UHJ <secretariat@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <letters@nytimes.com>;
bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai-faith@makelist.com>
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
July 24,1998
Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President
Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran
would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international
community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation
of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
always courting the President and other members of the government,
has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as
I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals,
Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
the Bahai community and administration.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom
of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
Bahai-Discuss Archives.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has
approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for
more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
talk.religion.bahai.
The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if
you will, of Bahai censorship?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 7:25 AM
Subject: The Bahai Technique
During the last year and a half, a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Steven Scholl[SMTP:sscholl@jeffnet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 12:40 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: Fw: Call for Manuscripts - - New Publisher
Dear Fredercik,
I noticed in your message the following:
>>While the first book I'll be publishing this August is moving along
>>well, I'm considering also publishing this year a collection of the
>>articles on my website I've called Assorted Controversial
>>Documents:
>>
>>"A Modest Proposal" 1987
>>"The Service of Women" 1988?
>>"Crisis of Faith" 5/15/96
>>Letter: Stephen Birkland, Continental Board of Counsellors 7/16/96
>>"Baha'i Leaders Vexed by On-Line Critics" Winter 1997
>>Mark Towfiq's NO Vote Campaign on BCCA mailing lists 3/12/97
>>Susan Maneck's NO Vote Campaign on AOL 12/7/98
I have no problem with you posting my e-mail materials on your site but I
do not want to see these writings end up in your proposed book. I suggest
you stick to more official documents like the Service of Women paper, you
CAN use A Modest Proposal and you should publish all the homosexuality
documents and responses from gay and lesbian Baha'is. That would make for a
stronger book.
Hope this helps.
Steve
_______________________
Steven Scholl, Publisher
White Cloud Press
PO Box 3400
Ashland OR 97520
Phone/fax 541-488-6415
e-mail: sscholl@jeffnet.org
Web: http://www.whitecloudpress.com
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 7:48 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: REPOST - alt/talk.religion.bahai - FAQ-history
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for
Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai
February 6, 1999
This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with only web access might want to use www.dejanews.com
www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com They all offer reading and
posting capabilities for people who can't directly access
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam.
Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on
America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai
If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this
news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly,
I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try
news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include
the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg."
Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi
tnum=0
David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi
tnum=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below.
Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?"
ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or
are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to
soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdul-Baha:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and
religious conscience.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.]
Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?"
ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here.
(Two years later their NO votes are their only answer.)
Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and
conscience?"
ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for
other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice
stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum,
the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai
and the experience of many Bahais and people who have left the
Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted to news.announce.newgroups.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRFD.htm
Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the
Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to
three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO
against talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of
talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in
effect more than a year and a half later.
March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to
691 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRESULT.htm
April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates
alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/arb.htm
October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated
newsgroups:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ1.htm
November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly
favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives
Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing
list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai
passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and
correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA
committee:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of
Usenet interest polling:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ2.htm
January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRFD.htm
February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES
to 65 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRESULT.htm
May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher
that contain his signature file:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb23.htm
September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a
Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL
removes the TOS after considering both sides of the
issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening
him and the experience of others:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on
Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature
files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses
and the name of the poster:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srbban.htm
October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman
backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House
and attempts to undermine the new support for the
"neutral" RFD:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb67.htm
December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted
to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the
3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRFD.htm
December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins
her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
January 10, 1999:
Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRESULT.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and
other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community,
see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document at http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/FAQ.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: K. Paul Johnson[SMTP:pjohnson@vsla.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 11:56 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: Your Gnosis article
According to Frederick Glaysher:
>
> Paul,
>
> I'd like to reprint your article "Baha'i Leaders Vexed by On-Line
> Critics" from Gnosis in a collection of pieces I mentioned recently
> on trb. It would at a minimum include these controversial pieces
> from my website:
>
> A Modest Proposal" 1987
> "The Service of Women" 1988?
> "Crisis of Faith" 5/15/96
> Letter: Stephen Birkland, Continental Board of Counsellors 7/16/96
>
> Please let me know if this would be acceptable to you and
> whether you know of anything else I might include.
Hey Fred,
I'm OK with it, although have doubts about the market for such a
book.
Cheers,
Paul
----------
From: Juan R Cole[SMTP:jrcole@umich.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 1:34 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: Collection of Articles
Fred:
Jackson's email is up under editors at the H-Bahai site.
I didn't actually have anything to do with writing that piece in the sense
of composing words. I think I was in Egypt and incommunicado. I did, I
suppose, help inspire it in the early 1980s with some informal comments to
some of the authors. I didn't mind having my name appended, but I was out
of the loop then and didn't know about the controversies generated till
later.
cheers Juan
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
> Juan,
>
> I'm unfamiliar with Jackson. Could you send
> me his email if you have it? I thought you were
> one of the authors of the Service of Women.
> The copy I have has your name on it:
>
> The Service of Women on the Institutions of the Baha'i Faith
>
> Anthony A. Lee, Peggy Caton, Richard Hollinger, Marjan Nirou, Nader
> Saiedi, Shahin Carrigan, Jackson Armstong-Ingram, and Juan R. I.
> Cole.
>
> Who did write it?
>
> Fred
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juan Cole <jrcole@umich.edu>
> To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 1:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Collection of Articles
>
>
> >
> >Dear Fred:
> >
> >I don't know the history of the Service of Women paper from the inside
> >because I wasn't around then; maybe in Egypt. Steve Scholl or Jackson would
> >be the ones to ask.
> >
> >
> >cheers Juan
> >
> >
> >
>
----------
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 6:29 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: fglaysher@hotmail.com; RBCFAdmin@aol.com
Subject: (no subject)
This person is referring to my opinions as "vitriol"
and in other insulting terms, while Mark Foster the
putative Forum Leader permits it employing his
double standard since she's a true blue Bahai
fundamentalist.
Fglaysher@aol.com
Subject: Re: Folder changes being discussed
Date: 2/27/1999 3:14 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Wrldunity9">Wrldunity9</A>
Message-id: <19990227151411.16109.00000862@ng116.aol.com>
Hi Susan,
Yes, but still ... "two wrongs don't make a right."
My original comment was for Fred also. And as I always tell my daughter, no
matter what anyone or everyone else does, you are responsible for yourself,
and you can't go wrong taking the high road.
I hope that one day Fred will realize that if he indeed had any valid point to
make on his so-called "technique," his continual spamming and spreading of
vitriol only influences people to avoid his message. Obsession is not a
pretty thing, and I hope Fred can find a way to overcome it and be happy
instead.
Most sincerely,
Becky
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Kathy Pascoe wrote in message <36fc499b.240054124@news.newsguy.com>...
>
>Deana, please don't jump on Robert either. I don't think any threats to
>shun people have come from him.
Like many of the Bahai fundamentalists here on trb,
he has accused or intimated that people were or are
covenant breakers many times during the last few years.
Skim around in www.dejanews.com or my archives for
examples. Try keyword covenant breaker etc....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990228103054.11960.00004460@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>You're a liar and you know it....
>
>Fred,
>
>I would be careful with those accusations. I have many remedies at my
disposal
>(which I may have considered), you know. How much money do you have?
Notice, like Maneck, when caught redhanded, the new technique
seems to be legal threats....
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Kathy Pascoe wrote in message <37067c0d.252969591@news.newsguy.com>...
>On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:47:19 GMT, mirele@newsguy.com (Deana Marie
>Holmes) wrote:
>
>> On 28 Feb 1999 15:30:54 GMT, rbcfmark@aol.com (RBCF Mark) wrote:
>>
>> >>You're a liar and you know it....
>> >
>> >I would be careful with those accusations. I have many remedies at my
disposal
>> >(which I may have considered), you know. How much money do you have?
>>
>> <snort>
>>
>> I'd like to see this one played out in court.
>>
>> It would be a black eye for the Baha'i Faith.
>
>No, it might be a black eye for Mark. It might be a black eye for the
>Administrative Order if they supply the attorney.
The AO has lots of hack Iranian "attorneys" who have no
respect for legal and political system. I would find it most
eloquently amusing for the likes of Maneck, Foster, Towfiq,
Hyman, and such other fanatics to attempt to redeem their
"good" names in court. I doubt any jury of 12 would look at
the evidence on www.dejanews.com or my archives and
rule in their favor....
>People in lots of newsgroups make noises about attorneys that they never
>follow though on, so I'm of the opinion that threats about taking legal
>action shouldn't be posted at all.
>
>(In the news.admin.net-abuse.* hierarchy, spammers get mocked about
>their 'cartooneys', since the 'attorneys' they threaten people with are
>invariably non-existent.)
>
>To Mark: stay above the fray. If someone calls you names repeatedly,
>and you don't respond at that level, or with legal threats you've no
>intention of carrying out, that person tars him or herself more than you
>are tarred (my opinion, of course, YMMV, yadda yadda).
Far from tar, he has lied when he claimed he was not
targetting me nor be unfair in his abuse of the AOL TOS
system. Several other AOL members have emailed me.
I'm sure they'd be happy to appear in court on my behalf too....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>--
>Kathy Pascoe ~ kathy@scconsult.com (at home)
>Confused about newsgroups? Visit <news:news.newusers.questions>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:04 PM
To: TOSBoards1; HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Kathy Pascoe wrote in message <37067c0d.252969591@news.newsguy.com>...
>On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:47:19 GMT, mirele@newsguy.com (Deana Marie
>Holmes) wrote:
>
>> On 28 Feb 1999 15:30:54 GMT, rbcfmark@aol.com (RBCF Mark) wrote:
>>
>> >>You're a liar and you know it....
>> >
>> >I would be careful with those accusations. I have many remedies at my
disposal
>> >(which I may have considered), you know. How much money do you have?
>>
>> <snort>
>>
>> I'd like to see this one played out in court.
>>
>> It would be a black eye for the Baha'i Faith.
>
>No, it might be a black eye for Mark. It might be a black eye for the
>Administrative Order if they supply the attorney.
The AO has lots of hack Iranian "attorneys" who have no
respect for legal and political system. I would find it most
eloquently amusing for the likes of Maneck, Foster, Towfiq,
Hyman, and such other fanatics to attempt to redeem their
"good" names in court. I doubt any jury of 12 would look at
the evidence on www.dejanews.com or my archives and
rule in their favor....
>People in lots of newsgroups make noises about attorneys that they never
>follow though on, so I'm of the opinion that threats about taking legal
>action shouldn't be posted at all.
>
>(In the news.admin.net-abuse.* hierarchy, spammers get mocked about
>their 'cartooneys', since the 'attorneys' they threaten people with are
>invariably non-existent.)
>
>To Mark: stay above the fray. If someone calls you names repeatedly,
>and you don't respond at that level, or with legal threats you've no
>intention of carrying out, that person tars him or herself more than you
>are tarred (my opinion, of course, YMMV, yadda yadda).
Far from tar, he has lied when he claimed he was not
targetting me nor be unfair in his abuse of the AOL TOS
system. Several other AOL members have emailed me.
I'm sure they'd be happy to appear in court on my behalf too....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>--
>Kathy Pascoe ~ kathy@scconsult.com (at home)
>Confused about newsgroups? Visit <news:news.newusers.questions>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990228171349.13527.00006519@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>Hi, Kathy -
>
>I appreciate the input, and you are probably right about staying out of the
>fray. However, I don't say things that I don't mean.
>
>Of course, considering one's options doesn't *necessarily* mean that one
will
>pursue them. And there is nothing to be gained by rushing into such things.
As
>I see it, time is on my side. ;-)
>
>Cordially, Mark Foster
You're a liar. You claimed you have not targetted me, and you
have.... Others have thought so too on AOL. You don't deserve
to be called a "Forum Moderator." You're obviously censoring
for the Bahai fundamentalists there, as has been done by
others on soc.religion.bahai, bahai-discuss, and so forth.
Your specious excuses twisting the TOS rules only redounds
to your shame....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:07 PM
To: TOSBoards1; HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990228171349.13527.00006519@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>Hi, Kathy -
>
>I appreciate the input, and you are probably right about staying out of the
>fray. However, I don't say things that I don't mean.
>
>Of course, considering one's options doesn't *necessarily* mean that one
will
>pursue them. And there is nothing to be gained by rushing into such things.
As
>I see it, time is on my side. ;-)
>
>Cordially, Mark Foster
You're a liar. You claimed you have not targetted me, and you
have.... Others have thought so too on AOL. You don't deserve
to be called a "Forum Moderator." You're obviously censoring
for the Bahai fundamentalists there, as has been done by
others on soc.religion.bahai, bahai-discuss, and so forth.
Your specious excuses twisting the TOS rules only redounds
to your shame....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990227231928.15440.00001973@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>Hi, Juan -
>
>I agree that the Baha'i community needs to be more tolerant of diversity.
It
>saddens me that we are so far from conforming to the standard that
`Abdul-Baha
>taught us.
How about you Mark and your constant hatch jobs on
people on AOL? I find it disgusting that you come in
here and pretend to liberality of motive....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990227232123.15440.00001976@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>I think that doctrinal unity means that we accept the essentials (whatever
they
>are <g>). However, I have also observed a tendency of people to simply echo
>each other, which strikes me as a lack of critical thought.
You're obviously regularly exploiting this pronounced pattern
of the fundamentalist lackies on AOL.... You know you can
count on them to chime in when you need them to shore up
your deceitful attacks that pretend to be supporting the TOS
rules.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:12 PM
To: HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990227232123.15440.00001976@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>I think that doctrinal unity means that we accept the essentials (whatever
they
>are <g>). However, I have also observed a tendency of people to simply echo
>each other, which strikes me as a lack of critical thought.
You're obviously regularly exploiting this pronounced pattern
of the fundamentalist lackies on AOL.... You know you can
count on them to chime in when you need them to shore up
your deceitful attacks that pretend to be supporting the TOS
rules.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Open plea to Fred
Well, Paul, I know you mean well, and I respect your point
of view. Yes, we have disagreed in the past and yes you
have been candid. You're entitled to your opinions.
While thanking you for your many contributions that helped
create talk.religion.bahai, we'll have to agree to disagree,
as they say....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
K. Paul Johnson wrote in message <36dac2f3.0@vlinsvr>...
>Dear Fred,
>
>Since I'm being accused of unfairness for criticizing Saman for
>being consistently aggressive in tone (which he's since stopped),
>but allegedly ignoring your level of aggression (although you
>know I've commented negatively on it several times) I want to
>make something perfectly clear. While I think you are on the
>right side of the issues, your demeanor is a serious detriment
>to the message you are trying to convey. You come across as if
>your outrage valve has been stuck in the fully open position for
>a very long time. Communicating in a nonstop tone of tirade,
>personal denunciation, ranting, etc. makes people take you a lot
>less seriously than if you said the same things differently. You
>can see that in the case of others; can't you see it in your own?
>You are hurting the cause you profess to serve.
>
>If being around Baha'is in cyberspace really makes you this stressed out,
>manically aggressive, whatever it is, and you can't change that,
>it would be best to avoid them. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is
>worth spending a large portion of your life in a state of
>hyperarousal like this. Not only is it bad for one's mental
>health, it is very dangerous physically.
>
>Please calm down, for your own sake and for the cause of open
>exploration of the merits and demerits of the Baha'i religion and
>administration. Shouting does no one any good.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Paul
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Vinson Jamir wrote in message <36DB5708.437E577E@bellsouth.net>...
>Dear Milissa,
> Seems to me that Fred refers to behaviors of which he disapproves
rather than
>nationalities and races. I have yet to see any critical comments about
Iranian
>culture, language, and history emanating from Fred. He simply
disapproves of
>the behavior of some Iranians within the organization of the Baha'i Faith.
I
>would hope the term "Iranian bashing" would imply something more than such
limited
>criticisms.
Thank you for your more nuanced understanding of
what I'm saying. It is the "behavior of some Iranians"
within the Bahai Faith that I disapprove of and have
always said so. There are exceptions. The general
tendency, though, is not pleasant to watch nor
experience, and quite distructive to the Bahai Faith....
> To be a qualified "basher" of any particular nationality or ethnicity,
it
>should be required that the alleged bashing involve denigration of the
entire
>ethnicity as such, not merely that some of its members exhibit certain
behaviors
>within one particular organized religious movement. Consider, for example,
how
>many times we hear about Italian crime families. Imagine someone being
accused of
>racism and prejudice for merely mentioning the existence of Italian crime
>families! It is behavior we hear about from Fred, repeatedly, but not
>condemnation of entire nationalities as such.
> I'll wager there are certain aspects of Iranian culture and society
Fred
Quite deeply, actually.... I've spent considerable parts of my
adult life studying the Bahai Writings and the classical Iranian
writers. If I had no respect for Iranians per se, I would certainly
not have bothered. The accusation of racism against me is but
merely another form of the Bahai Technique, in my opinion....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>really likes.
>
>vinson
>
>
>Milissa Boyer Kafes wrote:
>
>> Hi Frederick--
>>
>> you wrote:
>> (snip)
>>
>> > The AO has lots of hack Iranian "attorneys" who have no
>> > respect for legal and political system. I would find it most
>> > eloquently amusing for the likes of Maneck, Foster, Towfiq,
>> > Hyman, and such other fanatics to attempt to redeem their
>> > "good" names in court. I doubt any jury of 12 would look at
>> > the evidence on www.dejanews.com or my archives and
>> > rule in their favor....
>>
>> PLEASE Frederick, stop with the Iranian bashing! I know so many Iranians
(both
>> Baha'i and non-Baha'i)who are so cool.
>>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Draper (was: "every planet hath its creatures.")
I would be quite interested in reading Draper's book as
well. I have looked for it in the past but was unable at the
time to find a copy of it. It should be fascinating reading
as a crucial text influencing Abdu-l'Baha's intellectual development.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
jrcole@umich.edu wrote in message <7bfu6b$145$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Yeah, we have a copy of the 1873? edition here at U-M. I'm going to get it
>out and have it photocopied (that would be more like $20!) I have a
scanner
>with an Automatic Document Feed, so I can just put it right through.
Anybody
>who does any serious scanning should have an ADF. They aren't expensive
any
>more.
>
>cheers Juan
>
>
>
>Juan Cole, History, U of Michigan
>http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai.htm
>Buy *Modernity and the Millennium: The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith* at:
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0231110812/002-4036721-8058448
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 6:35 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Insult
This person is insulting me by referring to me and
my ideas and posts as "bizarre" and in a derogatory
fashion.
Subject: Re: Bahai Censorship Folder
Date: 3/2/1999 5:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:WScott1995">WScott1995</A>
Message-id: <19990302170211.29244.00002443@ng31.aol.com>
Susan,
Fred said: >>>Do you support the terrorist tactics of Bahai fundamentalism?<<<
You said: >>>Did you see this? <<<
Nope, not until you posted it. I don't read Fred's posts usually, especially
when he posts ten at a time. They are too bizarre and life is too short. :)
>>>Now we know why Fred posts our private correspondence. He's terrorized by
us!<<<<
LOL! Yes, we're pretty terrible, everyone knows that! ;) <g>
_____________________________
Love and peace, Wendy--------<-@
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
The illustrious Bahai Forum Leader on AOL Mark Foster commenting
on the request for a Folder titled Bahai Censorship:
>>Several people said that they wanted it. So, I thought that we could give
it
>>a try. If problems result because of it, it can always be removed later.
fglaysher writes:
>So is this an example of Bahai love and tolerance? Here we appear to have
the
>real motives of what appears to be the Forum Censor, not Leader....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: Love bombing
Dale Grider wrote in message <36DC7ABF.17E4AAC7@bellsouth.net>...
The problem of sin
>and its eternal consequences is thus swept under the spiritual carpet.
As a Bahai, I couldn't agree more.... Many of my fellow
Bahais live in a dreamy little state of mind that relegates
the dark realities of man's human nature to non-existence.
However, I don't believe the Bahai Writings neglect the
reality of sin and evil....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 6:45 AM
To: help@onelist.com
Subject: false subscriptions to onelist.com
This morning I found 475 messages in my inbox
mainly from several onelist.com maling lists. I
realize you have policies against this and don't
blame your service. I would appreciate your help
in unsubscribing my email from all of your lists or
determining what false email I've been entered as
or whatever you need to do to stop the bombardment.
I've included three sample headers and messages.
Thanks.
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
Someone has subscribed me to
chatover21@onelist.com
111-homeworkers@onelist.com
a1opportunities@onelist.com
fortune@onelist.com
pchelp@onelist.com
ssbdfreeads-owner@onelist.com
40PlusSingles@onelist.com
pcworks@MailingList.net
From: Shannon Taylor <taylor@netpathway.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: chatover21@onelist.com
To: Chat_Over <chatover21@onelist.com>
Subject: [chatover21] Still A Little Girl
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:02:14 -0500
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From: Shannon Taylor <taylor@netpathway.com>
Sarah I love the poems you sent ..here is one you may like...
The troubles outside seem so far away.
The fighting of wars, making a world decay.
But here in my private little world,
I feel safe and secure, like a little girl.
But in my private retreat it's great.
So different from the world outside, a world full of hate.
I find only peace and love to surround me here.
The feeling of goodness like God is near.
So let me be a little girl so small,
Then I won't have to worry at all.
I'll stay here where I'm safe from the world.
I'll face tomorrow when I'm not a little girl.
I'll settle down with a day dream or two,
After the work is all done and the house is all clean.
Feeling like a little girl, that is hiding from time,
Knowing that I'm grown up in body and mind.
But WAIT, I can't give up my private little world.
Maybe I'll just give up being a little girl.
Life is hard when you are a grown up, it's so much colder.
Oh well, I'll worry about it tomorrow...when I'm older.
© Shannon Taylor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: "Jeff Wilhelmi" <jwilh007@prairie.lakes.com> Save Address Block
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Subject: [40PlusSingles] Re: Oh, Yeah....
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:17:15 -0600
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From: "Jeff Wilhelmi" <jwilh007@prairie.lakes.com>
Complex sounds more like duplex. But who loves ya baby??? Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Bluespearl@aol.com <Bluespearl@aol.com>
To: 40PlusSingles@onelist.com <40PlusSingles@onelist.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 2:27 PM
Subject: [40PlusSingles] Re: Oh, Yeah....
>From: Bluespearl@aol.com
>
><< What is it, I send in my pic, next we go from # 1 to # 5, people on list
> leave. Is it me or
> just my damn complex again???? Jeff from Minnesota >>
>
>Ha Ha Jeff! I thought I was the one with the inferiority complex....
>
>Abby
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://www.onelist.com
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From: "Tim Klymkow" <klymkow@a-znet.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: pcworks@MailingList.net
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Subject: Re: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98
cd.
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:40:58 -0500
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Gary,
The only method that works is to rename (or mark as hidden, or delete) all
instances of WIN.COM on your hard drives, and then run setup from the DOS
prompt.
Info courtesy of Sean Erwins's Windows 98 FAQ at
http://www.listmaker.net/win98/index.html#upgrade .
Hope this helps!
Tim Klymkow
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <ggshaw@uq.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 4:55 AM
Subject: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98 cd.
>Problem: Win95b installed. Want to
>upgrade to Win98. I only have Win98 OEM
>CD. I get the following message after
>Win98 has copied temp files to begin
>install.
>"Your computer has an operating system
>installed, which cannot be upgraded by
>this version.
>
>"error SUO168"
>
<snip>
============= PCWorks Mailing List ===============
Visit Our Random "Member HomePage of the Week":
Shelley Gaffney's "Shelley's Money Making Opportunities"
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/9790/
PCWorks WebPage http://www.telesouth1.com/~pcworks
==============================================
----------
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 10:09 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: TOSBoards1@aol.com; fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: TOS Bahai Forums/Message Boards/For Non-Bahais
This person is also intimating that I'm a covenant breaker
and therefore a heretic. As a Bahai in good standing for
more than 23 years, I find this insulting and request that
you place a TOS on his account.
Subject: Re: PS: Fred on being a Bahá'í
Date: 3/3/1999 3:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Bennachti">Bennachti</A>
Message-id: <19990303152323.15538.00002757@ng96.aol.com>
<< That someone professing to be a Bahá'í would create a link to this site on
his own web site doesn't speak well for that person's profession of devotion
to the Cause of Bahá'u'lláh. >>
Roy,
Of course there is a big difference between being a Baha'i, and being "a
member of the Baha'i Faith". The person who you quoted just said he is "a
member". 'Abdul-Baha was clear about what the qualities of a true Baha'i
are.
True Baha'is believe in peace and unity, love, harmony, friendliness and
fellowship with their fellow believers and humankind in general. They also
engage themselves in service to humankind. The absence of those qualities
shows a lack of Baha'i spirit, which is central to our Faith.
No matter how much some people offer their love and friendship, some others
insist on eyeing it with suspicion and hatred. That is not the Baha'i way.
So be it. To them their religion, and to us, our religion.
Zaynab
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/rbcfbenna/aolchats.html">AOL Bahá'í Chats
</A>
A website with resources for
learning about the Bahá'í Faith
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bennachti/bahai.htm">Camphor Fountain</A>
Bahá'í Faith Information
For Seekers of Truth
And Students of Life
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:28 AM
To: abuse@usa.net
Subject: listserv spam from testcase2@usa.net
Dear abuse@usa.net
Someone has been using an account at testcase2@usa.net
for nearly a month now to bombard my fglaysher@hotmail.com
account with false subscriptions to listservs. Two listserv
adminstrators at Indiana.edu have helped a lot to figure out
where it's coming from and I include their messages below
along with the header and message of one piece of mailing
showing testcase2@usa.net in the FROM.
If you could turn off that account completely it would really help.
I also ask you to identify to me who the person is behind the spam
so that I might be able to do something about it. They've begun
a second wave of attacks just yesterday and today from lists
at www.onelist.com whom I've notified but seem to still be
passing many of the messages, though not all, through the
testcase2@usa.net address. The last message here shows
that address again.
I had 475 messages in my inbox this morning most from
this account testcase2@usa.net
Thanks in advance for anything you can do to stop
this.
Desperately in need of your help,
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: LISTSERV Administrator <lstadmin@indiana.edu>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>; stephenl@indiana.edu
<stephenl@indiana.edu>
Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: false listserv subscription
>Frederick and Larry,
>
>Do you anything about the subscription testcase2@usa.net? If I'm
>reading the headers right it looks like the message sent to Frederick
>came from that address.
>
>Larry -- if you want to test this you could set testcase2 to nomail and
>we could see if that stops the flow of mail to Frederick.
>
>Peg Bassett
>UITS Messaging Team
>
>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
>> Sorry it's taken me a week or so to reply. I'm still receiving
>> all the messages posted to your listservs. I'm going to try
>> to attach them and insert them in here to give you the
>> complete headers in one way or another.
>>
>> I really appreciate your help. My account is completely
>> overwhelmed by all this junk mail and takes several
>> minutes to download the few legitimate messages.
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher
>> fglaysher@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> >From testcase2@USA.NET Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: from [204.68.24.139] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id
>> MHotMailB89ACFE724011D101708CCC44188B9B990; Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: (qmail 18627 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 12:28:53 -0000
>> Received: from listserv.indiana.edu [129.79.5.189] by mx02 via mtad (2.6)
>> with ESMTP id 831DBVmoK0146M02; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:36 GMT
>> Received: from piano (129.79.5.189) by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
>> Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F38FDCE0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
>> Feb 1999 7:14:14 -0500
>> Received: from LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU by LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
(LISTSERV-TCP/IP
>> release 1.8c) with spool id 17591351 for
>> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
07:14:12
>> -0500
>> Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
Windows
>> NT
>> v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F2CC3EC0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
Feb
>> 1999 7:14:12 -0500
>> Received: from BGeoT@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ODDLa24348
>> for
>> <deep-south-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
>> 07:14:08
>> -0500 (EST)
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205
>> Message-ID: <7f98222.36d14a10@aol.com>
>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:14:08 EST
>> Reply-To: BGeoT@AOL.COM
>> Sender: "A discussion list for genealogy in AL, GA, FL and MS"
>> <DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
>> From: George Turnipseed <BGeoT@AOL.COM>
>> Subject: [D-S] JOHNSTON&CALDWELL-HancockCoMS-1800s
>> To: DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>>
>> I am searching for info, ancestors of James Johnston born c1810 in NC,
>> married Eleonore ___ c1830 Hancock Co MS. Their son, George W Johnston
>> born 1841 married Victoria V Caldwell.
>> Please contact by e-mail: BGeoT@aol.com
>> George Turnipseed
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> List problems?
>> Check
>> your WELCOME message FIRST
>> http://php.indiana.edu/~stephenl/problems.htm SECOND
>> then contact stephenL@indiana.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>
>> To: Stephens, Larry V <stephenl@indiana.edu>; 'Frederick Glaysher'
>> <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; 'lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu'
>> <lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu>
>> Cc: 'help@hotmail.com' <help@hotmail.com>; 'support@hotmail.com'
>> <support@hotmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 12:49 PM
>> Subject: RE: false listserv subscription
>>
>>
>> >I've searched back through all of the LISTSERV log files for February I
did
>> >not find a subscription request from Mr. Glaysher for the
>> Deep-South-Roots-L
>> >list. I also did not find any indication that mail to this list was
>> >distributed to
>> >the address fglaysher@hotmail.com.
>> >
>> >Mr. Glaysher -- are you still receiving list mail from our server? If
yes,
>> >could
>> >you please forward a copy of a recent message, with full headers to me?
>> >
>> >
>> >Peggy Bassett
>> >University Information Technology Services
>> >Indiana University, Bloomington
>> >bassett@indiana.edu
>> >>
>> >> owner-java-com@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >> Java-COM@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >>
>> >> LINGUIST@LINGUIST.LDC.UPENN.EDU
>> >> LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> linguist@linguistlist.org
>> >>
>> >> PENNSYLVANIA-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> owner-pennsylvania-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu
>> >> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >>
>> >> MTG-STRATEGY-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>> >> PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
>> >> owner-pli-y2klaw@pli.edu
>>
>>
>
>
From: "Tim Klymkow" <klymkow@a-znet.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: pcworks@MailingList.net
To: <pcworks@MailingList.net>
Subject: Re: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98
cd.
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:40:58 -0500
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Gary,
The only method that works is to rename (or mark as hidden, or delete) all
instances of WIN.COM on your hard drives, and then run setup from the DOS
prompt.
Info courtesy of Sean Erwins's Windows 98 FAQ at
http://www.listmaker.net/win98/index.html#upgrade .
Hope this helps!
Tim Klymkow
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <ggshaw@uq.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 4:55 AM
Subject: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98 cd.
>Problem: Win95b installed. Want to
>upgrade to Win98. I only have Win98 OEM
>CD. I get the following message after
>Win98 has copied temp files to begin
>install.
>"Your computer has an operating system
>installed, which cannot be upgraded by
>this version.
>
>"error SUO168"
>
<snip>
============= PCWorks Mailing List ===============
Visit Our Random "Member HomePage of the Week":
Shelley Gaffney's "Shelley's Money Making Opportunities"
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/9790/
PCWorks WebPage http://www.telesouth1.com/~pcworks
==============================================
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:34 AM
Subject: Technique Bahai
During the last year and a half, a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
Juan Cole wrote, February 23, 1999:
"There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear
the
sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to
being
"Baha'i" at all)."
"Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear
their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from
theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'is
or when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith."
"The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to
a
heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall
silent."
"With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the
faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note
that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy,
of
"claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted,
twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,'
and
even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by
*Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them."
"This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all
the
talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a
sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights
dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot
refute."
"Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years.
He
can explain it to you."
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:37 AM
Subject: Maneck's Technique
Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
"It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is reading
Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."
"I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of filled with
hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just have
shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself "warmest" and
slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what she is
about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"
Frederick Glaysher, February 15, 1999:
"Ms. Maneck's approach appears to me to be always to
shunt the discussion off or back to who said what where when
why how and so on.... The farther back in time the better, since
the person's memory, being human, is bound to be unable to
keep up or to have stocked the evidence needed on his or her
hard drive or find it on dejanews.com. And it then allows her
to claim pretty much anything she wants to while seeming to
have discredited her opponent. Further, she relies on the
tactics of demagoguery knowing they usually prevail and will be
supported by other fundamentalist Bahais. By shrieking
"slander" and referring to others' opinions as "garbage," she is
able to create an emotional atmosphere that essentially negates
whatever the topic or content might be and that allows her to
appear to win what is often a narrowly legalistic point or
interpretation."
"All of this is done, of course, in conjunction with her employing
the more common Bahai techniques of intimidation and
psychological demonization and terrorism."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:38 AM
Subject: FAQ - arb & trb - history
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for
Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai
March 3, 1999
This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with only web access might want to use www.dejanews.com
www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com They all offer reading and
posting capabilities for people who can't directly access
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam.
Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on
America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai
If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this
news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly,
I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try
news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include
the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg."
Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi
tnum=0
David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi
tnum=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below.
Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?"
ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or
are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to
soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdul-Baha:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and
religious conscience.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.]
Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?"
ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here.
(Two years later their NO votes are their only answer.)
Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and
conscience?"
ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for
other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice
stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum,
the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai
and the experience of many Bahais and people who have left the
Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted to news.announce.newgroups.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRFD.htm
Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the
Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to
three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO
against talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of
talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in
effect more than a year and a half later.
March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to
691 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRESULT.htm
April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates
alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/arb.htm
October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated
newsgroups:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ1.htm
November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly
favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives
Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing
list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai
passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and
correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA
committee:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of
Usenet interest polling:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ2.htm
January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRFD.htm
February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES
to 65 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRESULT.htm
May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher
that contain his signature file:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb23.htm
September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a
Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL
removes the TOS after considering both sides of the
issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening
him and the experience of others:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on
Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature
files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses
and the name of the poster:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srbban.htm
October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman
backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House
and attempts to undermine the new support for the
"neutral" RFD:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb67.htm
December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted
to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the
3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRFD.htm
December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins
her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
January 10, 1999:
Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRESULT.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and
other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community,
see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document at http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/FAQ.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:40 AM
Subject: brief - srb - quotes
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:41 AM
Subject: 7-24-98 Universal House of Justice
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: UHJ <secretariat@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <letters@nytimes.com>;
bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai-faith@makelist.com>
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
July 24,1998
Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President
Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran
would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international
community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation
of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
always courting the President and other members of the government,
has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as
I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals,
Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
the Bahai community and administration.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom
of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
Bahai-Discuss Archives.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has
approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for
more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
talk.religion.bahai.
The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if
you will, of Bahai censorship?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Vinson Jamir wrote in message <36DE126C.100D27E2@bellsouth.net>...
He loves
>Persian literature and maybe even certain Persian dishes,
"Love" is too unqualified of a word. While I respect Rumi and other
classical Iranian poets, they fail, as Yeats once said of an
idealistic poet, to have a Vision of Evil.... I was especially struck
by this once reading the Mathnawi and simply put it aside and
have never had any desire to pick it up again. Much Bahai
"literature" strikes me the same way....
Koreshe bademjan.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 9:07 AM
To: abuse@mindspring.net
Subject: mindspring spammer
Please help stop the person who is spamming me with
false listserv subscriptions. They may be originating
from mindspring.com or usa.net. My note to usa.net
should explain the situation to you. The last message
here contains reference to mindspring.com:
Thank you.
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
Dear abuse@usa.net
Someone has been using an account at testcase2@usa.net
for nearly a month now to bombard my fglaysher@hotmail.com
account with false subscriptions to listservs. Two listserv
adminstrators at Indiana.edu have helped a lot to figure out
where it's coming from and I include their messages below
along with the header and message of one piece of mailing
showing testcase2@usa.net in the FROM.
If you could turn off that account completely it would really help.
I also ask you to identify to me who the person is behind the spam
so that I might be able to do something about it. They've begun
a second wave of attacks just yesterday and today from lists
at www.onelist.com whom I've notified but seem to still be
passing many of the messages, though not all, through the
testcase2@usa.net address. The last message here shows
that address again.
I had 475 messages in my inbox this morning most from
this account testcase2@usa.net
Thanks in advance for anything you can do to stop
this.
Desperately in need of your help,
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: LISTSERV Administrator <lstadmin@indiana.edu>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>; stephenl@indiana.edu
<stephenl@indiana.edu>
Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: false listserv subscription
>Frederick and Larry,
>
>Do you anything about the subscription testcase2@usa.net? If I'm
>reading the headers right it looks like the message sent to Frederick
>came from that address.
>
>Larry -- if you want to test this you could set testcase2 to nomail and
>we could see if that stops the flow of mail to Frederick.
>
>Peg Bassett
>UITS Messaging Team
>
>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
>> Sorry it's taken me a week or so to reply. I'm still receiving
>> all the messages posted to your listservs. I'm going to try
>> to attach them and insert them in here to give you the
>> complete headers in one way or another.
>>
>> I really appreciate your help. My account is completely
>> overwhelmed by all this junk mail and takes several
>> minutes to download the few legitimate messages.
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher
>> fglaysher@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> >From testcase2@USA.NET Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: from [204.68.24.139] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id
>> MHotMailB89ACFE724011D101708CCC44188B9B990; Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: (qmail 18627 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 12:28:53 -0000
>> Received: from listserv.indiana.edu [129.79.5.189] by mx02 via mtad (2.6)
>> with ESMTP id 831DBVmoK0146M02; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:36 GMT
>> Received: from piano (129.79.5.189) by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
>> Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F38FDCE0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
>> Feb 1999 7:14:14 -0500
>> Received: from LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU by LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
(LISTSERV-TCP/IP
>> release 1.8c) with spool id 17591351 for
>> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
07:14:12
>> -0500
>> Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
Windows
>> NT
>> v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F2CC3EC0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
Feb
>> 1999 7:14:12 -0500
>> Received: from BGeoT@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ODDLa24348
>> for
>> <deep-south-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
>> 07:14:08
>> -0500 (EST)
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205
>> Message-ID: <7f98222.36d14a10@aol.com>
>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:14:08 EST
>> Reply-To: BGeoT@AOL.COM
>> Sender: "A discussion list for genealogy in AL, GA, FL and MS"
>> <DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
>> From: George Turnipseed <BGeoT@AOL.COM>
>> Subject: [D-S] JOHNSTON&CALDWELL-HancockCoMS-1800s
>> To: DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>>
>> I am searching for info, ancestors of James Johnston born c1810 in NC,
>> married Eleonore ___ c1830 Hancock Co MS. Their son, George W Johnston
>> born 1841 married Victoria V Caldwell.
>> Please contact by e-mail: BGeoT@aol.com
>> George Turnipseed
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> List problems?
>> Check
>> your WELCOME message FIRST
>> http://php.indiana.edu/~stephenl/problems.htm SECOND
>> then contact stephenL@indiana.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>
>> To: Stephens, Larry V <stephenl@indiana.edu>; 'Frederick Glaysher'
>> <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; 'lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu'
>> <lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu>
>> Cc: 'help@hotmail.com' <help@hotmail.com>; 'support@hotmail.com'
>> <support@hotmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 12:49 PM
>> Subject: RE: false listserv subscription
>>
>>
>> >I've searched back through all of the LISTSERV log files for February I
did
>> >not find a subscription request from Mr. Glaysher for the
>> Deep-South-Roots-L
>> >list. I also did not find any indication that mail to this list was
>> >distributed to
>> >the address fglaysher@hotmail.com.
>> >
>> >Mr. Glaysher -- are you still receiving list mail from our server? If
yes,
>> >could
>> >you please forward a copy of a recent message, with full headers to me?
>> >
>> >
>> >Peggy Bassett
>> >University Information Technology Services
>> >Indiana University, Bloomington
>> >bassett@indiana.edu
>> >>
>> >> owner-java-com@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >> Java-COM@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >>
>> >> LINGUIST@LINGUIST.LDC.UPENN.EDU
>> >> LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> linguist@linguistlist.org
>> >>
>> >> PENNSYLVANIA-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> owner-pennsylvania-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu
>> >> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >>
>> >> MTG-STRATEGY-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>> >> PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
>> >> owner-pli-y2klaw@pli.edu
>>
>>
>
>
From: "Tim Klymkow" <klymkow@a-znet.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: pcworks@MailingList.net
To: <pcworks@MailingList.net>
Subject: Re: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98
cd.
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:40:58 -0500
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Gary,
The only method that works is to rename (or mark as hidden, or delete) all
instances of WIN.COM on your hard drives, and then run setup from the DOS
prompt.
Info courtesy of Sean Erwins's Windows 98 FAQ at
http://www.listmaker.net/win98/index.html#upgrade .
Hope this helps!
Tim Klymkow
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <ggshaw@uq.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 4:55 AM
Subject: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98 cd.
>Problem: Win95b installed. Want to
>upgrade to Win98. I only have Win98 OEM
>CD. I get the following message after
>Win98 has copied temp files to begin
>install.
>"Your computer has an operating system
>installed, which cannot be upgraded by
>this version.
>
>"error SUO168"
>
<snip>
============= PCWorks Mailing List ===============
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From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 10:01 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: TOSBoards1@aol.com; fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: TOS Bahai Forums/Message Boards/for Non Bahais
This person attacks the sincerity of my religious
convictions:
Subject: Fred on being a Bahá'í
Date: 3/3/1999 11:40 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Arhil">Arhil</A>
Message-id: <19990303114024.00290.00002884@ng-fd1.aol.com>
<<As a MEMBER OF THE BAHAI FAITH for over 23 YEARS,>>
Fred -
You make a big point, both in these folders & in your web site, about how
long you've been a Bahá'í & how devoted you are to the Faith. If this is true,
then I have a question for you - Why do you have links on your web site to
Christian & Muslim sites which declare Bahá'u'lláh to be a false prophet & the
Bahá'í Faith to be a corruption of true religion (I'm speaking specifically of
"Bahá'í Christian Fireside Letters" & "Answering Bahá'u'lláh")?
This is not consistent w/ your claims of devotion.
In love and brotherhood,
Roy
----------
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 10:06 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: TOSBoards1@aol.com; fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: TOS BAhai Forums/Message Boards/For Non-BAhais
This person is threatening me in a manner that only Bahais
can do to other Bahais and which non-Bahais may entirely
fail to perceive: He's intimating I'm disloyal to the Bahai
Faith and its teachings and therefore a "covenant breaker,"
the worst accusation a Bahai can make of another. I request
that you place a TOS on his account for this coercive tactic.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subject: PS: Fred on being a Bahá'í
Date: 3/3/1999 2:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Arhil">Arhil</A>
Message-id: <19990303144610.28354.00002877@ng117.aol.com>
Fred -
As a further note, the "Answering Bahá'u'lláh" web site displays a copy of
Bahá'u'lláh's picture. The Universal House of Justice has given guidance on
this matter:
"Concerning the question of display of the photograph of Baha'u'llah, the
Guardian's instructions were that this should be done only with the utmost
reverence, and then only on special occasions."
(From a letter dated 1 August 17 written by the Universal House of Justice to
an individual believer)
"It would be good to advise the young Persian believer who has this picture
that, while we do not wish to suggest that he should remove the photograph
from his book, it would be inappropriate for him to show it to others in a
casual manner. As you know, the photograph of Baha'u'llah is very precious and
it should be handled with due reverence and respect."
(From a letter dated 7 February 1972 written by the Universal House of Justice
to an individual believer)
"The portraits of the Bab and Baha'u'llah should be shown infrequently and on
very special occasions, such as a special observance connected with an event
intimately associated with the Forerunner or Founder of our Faith.
"We do not think that the regular National Convention is such a special
occasion, and we feel that the privilege of displaying these very precious
portraits should not be abused."
(From a letter dated 12 July 1973 written by the Universal House of Justice to
the National Spiritual Assembly of Panama)
Obviously, the creators of the web site had no such concerns regarding
reverence. That someone professing to be a Bahá'í would create a link to this
site on his own web site doesn't speak well for that person's profession of
devotion to the Cause of Bahá'u'lláh.
In love and brotherhood,
Roy
"Thy Name is my healing, O my God,
and remembrance of Thee is my remedy."
- Bahá'u'lláh
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 4:39 PM
To: guylaw@yahoo.com
Subject: testcase2usa.net spammer
Dear guylaw@yahoo.com
Someone has been using an account at testcase2@usa.net
for nearly a month now to bombard my fglaysher@hotmail.com
account with false subscriptions to listservs. Two listserv
adminstrators at Indiana.edu have helped a lot to figure out
where it's coming from and I include their messages below
along with the header and message of one piece of mailing
showing testcase2@usa.net in the FROM.
If you could turn off that account completely it would really help.
I also ask you to identify to me who the person is behind the spam
so that I might be able to do something about it. They've begun
a second wave of attacks just yesterday and today from lists
at www.onelist.com whom I've notified but seem to still be
passing many of the messages, though not all, through the
testcase2@usa.net address. The last message here shows
that address again.
I had 475 messages in my inbox this morning most from
this account testcase2@usa.net and another 319 this
afternoon!!
Thanks in advance for anything you can do to stop
this.
Desperately in need of your help,
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: LISTSERV Administrator <lstadmin@indiana.edu>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>; stephenl@indiana.edu
<stephenl@indiana.edu>
Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: false listserv subscription
>Frederick and Larry,
>
>Do you anything about the subscription testcase2@usa.net? If I'm
>reading the headers right it looks like the message sent to Frederick
>came from that address.
>
>Larry -- if you want to test this you could set testcase2 to nomail and
>we could see if that stops the flow of mail to Frederick.
>
>Peg Bassett
>UITS Messaging Team
>
>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
>> Sorry it's taken me a week or so to reply. I'm still receiving
>> all the messages posted to your listservs. I'm going to try
>> to attach them and insert them in here to give you the
>> complete headers in one way or another.
>>
>> I really appreciate your help. My account is completely
>> overwhelmed by all this junk mail and takes several
>> minutes to download the few legitimate messages.
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher
>> fglaysher@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> >From testcase2@USA.NET Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: from [204.68.24.139] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id
>> MHotMailB89ACFE724011D101708CCC44188B9B990; Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: (qmail 18627 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 12:28:53 -0000
>> Received: from listserv.indiana.edu [129.79.5.189] by mx02 via mtad (2.6)
>> with ESMTP id 831DBVmoK0146M02; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:36 GMT
>> Received: from piano (129.79.5.189) by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
>> Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F38FDCE0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
>> Feb 1999 7:14:14 -0500
>> Received: from LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU by LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
(LISTSERV-TCP/IP
>> release 1.8c) with spool id 17591351 for
>> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
07:14:12
>> -0500
>> Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
Windows
>> NT
>> v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F2CC3EC0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
Feb
>> 1999 7:14:12 -0500
>> Received: from BGeoT@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ODDLa24348
>> for
>> <deep-south-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
>> 07:14:08
>> -0500 (EST)
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205
>> Message-ID: <7f98222.36d14a10@aol.com>
>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:14:08 EST
>> Reply-To: BGeoT@AOL.COM
>> Sender: "A discussion list for genealogy in AL, GA, FL and MS"
>> <DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
>> From: George Turnipseed <BGeoT@AOL.COM>
>> Subject: [D-S] JOHNSTON&CALDWELL-HancockCoMS-1800s
>> To: DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>>
>> I am searching for info, ancestors of James Johnston born c1810 in NC,
>> married Eleonore ___ c1830 Hancock Co MS. Their son, George W Johnston
>> born 1841 married Victoria V Caldwell.
>> Please contact by e-mail: BGeoT@aol.com
>> George Turnipseed
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> List problems?
>> Check
>> your WELCOME message FIRST
>> http://php.indiana.edu/~stephenl/problems.htm SECOND
>> then contact stephenL@indiana.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>
>> To: Stephens, Larry V <stephenl@indiana.edu>; 'Frederick Glaysher'
>> <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; 'lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu'
>> <lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu>
>> Cc: 'help@hotmail.com' <help@hotmail.com>; 'support@hotmail.com'
>> <support@hotmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 12:49 PM
>> Subject: RE: false listserv subscription
>>
>>
>> >I've searched back through all of the LISTSERV log files for February I
did
>> >not find a subscription request from Mr. Glaysher for the
>> Deep-South-Roots-L
>> >list. I also did not find any indication that mail to this list was
>> >distributed to
>> >the address fglaysher@hotmail.com.
>> >
>> >Mr. Glaysher -- are you still receiving list mail from our server? If
yes,
>> >could
>> >you please forward a copy of a recent message, with full headers to me?
>> >
>> >
>> >Peggy Bassett
>> >University Information Technology Services
>> >Indiana University, Bloomington
>> >bassett@indiana.edu
>> >>
>> >> owner-java-com@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >> Java-COM@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >>
>> >> LINGUIST@LINGUIST.LDC.UPENN.EDU
>> >> LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> linguist@linguistlist.org
>> >>
>> >> PENNSYLVANIA-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> owner-pennsylvania-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu
>> >> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >>
>> >> MTG-STRATEGY-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>> >> PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
>> >> owner-pli-y2klaw@pli.edu
>>
>>
>
>
From: "Tim Klymkow" <klymkow@a-znet.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: pcworks@MailingList.net
To: <pcworks@MailingList.net>
Subject: Re: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98
cd.
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:40:58 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
From testcase2@usa.net Wed Mar 3 14:49:21 1999
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Gary,
The only method that works is to rename (or mark as hidden, or delete) all
instances of WIN.COM on your hard drives, and then run setup from the DOS
prompt.
Info courtesy of Sean Erwins's Windows 98 FAQ at
http://www.listmaker.net/win98/index.html#upgrade .
Hope this helps!
Tim Klymkow
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <ggshaw@uq.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 4:55 AM
Subject: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98 cd.
>Problem: Win95b installed. Want to
>upgrade to Win98. I only have Win98 OEM
>CD. I get the following message after
>Win98 has copied temp files to begin
>install.
>"Your computer has an operating system
>installed, which cannot be upgraded by
>this version.
>
>"error SUO168"
>
<snip>
============= PCWorks Mailing List ===============
Visit Our Random "Member HomePage of the Week":
Shelley Gaffney's "Shelley's Money Making Opportunities"
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/9790/
PCWorks WebPage http://www.telesouth1.com/~pcworks
==============================================
From: "O'Flynn, Austin" <AOFlynn@CHW.EDU> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: PLI Year 2000 Law List <PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU>
To: PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
Subject: Re: [PLI-Y2KLAW] Y2K Testing of Biomedical Equipment by Users
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:59:01 -0800
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From testcase2@usa.net Thu Mar 4 07:16:52 1999
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Year 200
Readiness Disclosure Statement
Re: Testing of Biomedical Equipment by Users.
If you are concerned about the voiding a system warranty by doing your
testing, it infers you are talking about a relatively new system, in
which case such testing ought to have been provided for in the contract.
We at Catholic Healthcare West have decided not to rely merely on
statements from the vendor with respect to mission critical systems.
All mission critical systems are being tested, including all interfaces.
For newly installed systems, we include such right to test in the
contract, and to test as per our scripts. For older systems, we obtain
not merely a Y2K compliance statement, but all test scripts and results
thereof. We also seek copies from the vendor of any third party
verification of such testing. And then we test the application
ourselves.
You should note that many public Y2K Statements have the same caption as
I have above, that is, they are given pursuant to the Federal Year 2000
Information and Readiness Disclosure Act that such statement cannot be
used against the issuer in any legal action, with certain exceptions.
Therefore, often the public Y2K Statement by a vendor are no more than a
heads up, leaving you to decide whether you want to act on it or not.
Where there are patient lives at risk, due diligence warrants that you
treat such statements as informational only; nothing more.
I have not heard that the FDA is advising hospitals to the contrary.
And even if they were, until they put their dollars on the line or
appropriate regulation is passed, their advice is but circumstantial
evidence at best on what the standard for due diligence should be.
The statement given above is personal and has not been approved or
endorsed by CHW. Austin O'Flynn
Associate Corporate Counsel
CHW
http://www.chw.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: Hanson Research Service, Inc. [mailto:lhanson@HANSONINFO.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 10:58 AM
To: PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
Subject: Re: [PLI-Y2KLAW] Y2K Testing of Biomedical Equipment by Users
Debra --
I recently gave a speech to a medical society on Y2K issues that
included a
discussion about the status of biomedical devices. Research for the
presentation clearly indicated that there are conflicting opinions about
whether reliance on a vendor's claim of Y2K compliance is adequate, or
whether the equipment should be tested independently by an experienced
engineer. Hospitals have been cautious about relying on vendor
certification, especially when the devices are critical to the welfare
of
patients. A New Zealand hospital reported that it had tested a number
of
pieces of one type of medical equipment and found that half were not Y2K
compliant. This alarmed the hospital since the vendor had certified
that
the equipment was Y2K compliant. Some hopitals maintain that it is not
only
necessary to self test a particular device, but every single sample--a
tedious and expensive process. I can supply the citations for the
above,
which do not represent formal medical studies but rather observations
from
medical practitioners. I would be interested in listserv opinion on
what
constitutes due deligence in this matter.
Regards,
Louise
>I represent a health-care provider which uses sophisticated biomedical
>equipment. The company's inside biomedical administrators would like
to be
>able to rely on the public y2k compliance statements issued by the
>equipment vendors to the FDA, and are hesitant to conduct their own
testing
>because, they say, (i) the FDA recommends (prohibits?) against user
>testing, and (ii) the vendor warranties may be nullified if the user
>"tampers" with the software. Does anyone have any opinions on these
>issues, or any authority in support of or against this position? Is it
>reasonable for an end-user to rely on vendor statments of compliance,
or
>should a user (who, of course, has less technical expertise than the
vendor
>concerning its particular piece of equipment) have to test on its own
the
>equipment supplied by a multitude of vendors? The concerns are
two-fold:
> (i) contractual rights of the company against the vendor if it turns
out
>that the equipment is non-compliant; and (ii) potential liability of
the
>company to patients using any equipment which malfunctions.
>
>Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.
>Debra Glazer, Esq.
>Irvine, CA 92612
>(949) 854-0173
>FAX (949) 854-0198
>Debra.Glazer@worldnet.att.net
>
>
>-------------------------------
>PLI-Y2KLAW
>Sponsored by The Practising Law Institute
>810 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10019
>http://www.pli.edu (800) 260-4PLI
>List Moderator: Charles Kerr, ckerr@mofo.com
>Technical Contact: Guy Alvarez, guylaw@yahoo.com
>
>The electronic messages that appear on this list are for informational
>purposes only. They are not intended to be and should not be
>considered legal advice nor substitute for obtaining legal advice from
>competent, independent, legal counsel in the relevant jurisdiction.
>
>Transmission of this information is not intended to create, and
>receipt does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. The
>information contained on this list may or may not reflect the most
>current legal developments.
>
>
Louise Hanson, President E-mail: lhanson@hansoninfo.com
Hanson Research Services, Inc. Phone: (785) 832-9234 (business);
1628 Dudley Court (785) 841-3026 (home)
Lawrence, KS 66044 Fax: (785) 832-9242
-------------------------------
PLI-Y2KLAW
Sponsored by The Practising Law Institute
810 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10019
http://www.pli.edu (800) 260-4PLI
List Moderator: Charles Kerr, ckerr@mofo.com
Technical Contact: Guy Alvarez, guylaw@yahoo.com
The electronic messages that appear on this list are for informational
purposes only. They are not intended to be and should not be
considered legal advice nor substitute for obtaining legal advice from
competent, independent, legal counsel in the relevant jurisdiction.
Transmission of this information is not intended to create, and
receipt does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. The
information contained on this list may or may not reflect the most
current legal developments.
-------------------------------
PLI-Y2KLAW
Sponsored by The Practising Law Institute
810 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10019
http://www.pli.edu (800) 260-4PLI
List Moderator: Charles Kerr, ckerr@mofo.com
Technical Contact: Guy Alvarez, guylaw@yahoo.com
The electronic messages that appear on this list are for informational
purposes only. They are not intended to be and should not be
considered legal advice nor substitute for obtaining legal advice from
competent, independent, legal counsel in the relevant jurisdiction.
Transmission of this information is not intended to create, and
receipt does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. The
information contained on this list may or may not reflect the most
current legal developments.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 4:44 PM
To: abuse@usa.net
Subject: testcase2@usa.net spammer
Dear abuse@usa.net
319 more messages this afternoon:
Someone has been using an account at testcase2@usa.net
for nearly a month now to bombard my fglaysher@hotmail.com
account with false subscriptions to listservs. Two listserv
adminstrators at Indiana.edu have helped a lot to figure out
where it's coming from and I include their messages below
along with the header and message of one piece of mailing
showing testcase2@usa.net in the FROM.
If you could turn off that account completely it would really help.
I also ask you to identify to me who the person is behind the spam
so that I might be able to do something about it. They've begun
a second wave of attacks just yesterday and today from lists
at www.onelist.com whom I've notified but seem to still be
passing many of the messages, though not all, through the
testcase2@usa.net address. The last message here shows
that address again.
I had 475 messages in my inbox this morning most from
this account testcase2@usa.net and another 319 this
afternoon!!
Thanks in advance for anything you can do to stop
this.
Desperately in need of your help,
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: LISTSERV Administrator <lstadmin@indiana.edu>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>; stephenl@indiana.edu
<stephenl@indiana.edu>
Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: false listserv subscription
>Frederick and Larry,
>
>Do you anything about the subscription testcase2@usa.net? If I'm
>reading the headers right it looks like the message sent to Frederick
>came from that address.
>
>Larry -- if you want to test this you could set testcase2 to nomail and
>we could see if that stops the flow of mail to Frederick.
>
>Peg Bassett
>UITS Messaging Team
>
>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
>> Sorry it's taken me a week or so to reply. I'm still receiving
>> all the messages posted to your listservs. I'm going to try
>> to attach them and insert them in here to give you the
>> complete headers in one way or another.
>>
>> I really appreciate your help. My account is completely
>> overwhelmed by all this junk mail and takes several
>> minutes to download the few legitimate messages.
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher
>> fglaysher@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> >From testcase2@USA.NET Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: from [204.68.24.139] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id
>> MHotMailB89ACFE724011D101708CCC44188B9B990; Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: (qmail 18627 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 12:28:53 -0000
>> Received: from listserv.indiana.edu [129.79.5.189] by mx02 via mtad (2.6)
>> with ESMTP id 831DBVmoK0146M02; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:36 GMT
>> Received: from piano (129.79.5.189) by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
>> Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F38FDCE0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
>> Feb 1999 7:14:14 -0500
>> Received: from LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU by LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
(LISTSERV-TCP/IP
>> release 1.8c) with spool id 17591351 for
>> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
07:14:12
>> -0500
>> Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
Windows
>> NT
>> v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F2CC3EC0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
Feb
>> 1999 7:14:12 -0500
>> Received: from BGeoT@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ODDLa24348
>> for
>> <deep-south-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
>> 07:14:08
>> -0500 (EST)
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205
>> Message-ID: <7f98222.36d14a10@aol.com>
>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:14:08 EST
>> Reply-To: BGeoT@AOL.COM
>> Sender: "A discussion list for genealogy in AL, GA, FL and MS"
>> <DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
>> From: George Turnipseed <BGeoT@AOL.COM>
>> Subject: [D-S] JOHNSTON&CALDWELL-HancockCoMS-1800s
>> To: DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>>
>> I am searching for info, ancestors of James Johnston born c1810 in NC,
>> married Eleonore ___ c1830 Hancock Co MS. Their son, George W Johnston
>> born 1841 married Victoria V Caldwell.
>> Please contact by e-mail: BGeoT@aol.com
>> George Turnipseed
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> List problems?
>> Check
>> your WELCOME message FIRST
>> http://php.indiana.edu/~stephenl/problems.htm SECOND
>> then contact stephenL@indiana.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>
>> To: Stephens, Larry V <stephenl@indiana.edu>; 'Frederick Glaysher'
>> <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; 'lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu'
>> <lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu>
>> Cc: 'help@hotmail.com' <help@hotmail.com>; 'support@hotmail.com'
>> <support@hotmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 12:49 PM
>> Subject: RE: false listserv subscription
>>
>>
>> >I've searched back through all of the LISTSERV log files for February I
did
>> >not find a subscription request from Mr. Glaysher for the
>> Deep-South-Roots-L
>> >list. I also did not find any indication that mail to this list was
>> >distributed to
>> >the address fglaysher@hotmail.com.
>> >
>> >Mr. Glaysher -- are you still receiving list mail from our server? If
yes,
>> >could
>> >you please forward a copy of a recent message, with full headers to me?
>> >
>> >
>> >Peggy Bassett
>> >University Information Technology Services
>> >Indiana University, Bloomington
>> >bassett@indiana.edu
>> >>
>> >> owner-java-com@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >> Java-COM@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >>
>> >> LINGUIST@LINGUIST.LDC.UPENN.EDU
>> >> LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> linguist@linguistlist.org
>> >>
>> >> PENNSYLVANIA-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> owner-pennsylvania-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu
>> >> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >>
>> >> MTG-STRATEGY-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>> >> PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
>> >> owner-pli-y2klaw@pli.edu
>>
>>
>
>
From: "Tim Klymkow" <klymkow@a-znet.com> Save Address Block Sender
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Subject: Re: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98
cd.
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:40:58 -0500
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Gary,
The only method that works is to rename (or mark as hidden, or delete) all
instances of WIN.COM on your hard drives, and then run setup from the DOS
prompt.
Info courtesy of Sean Erwins's Windows 98 FAQ at
http://www.listmaker.net/win98/index.html#upgrade .
Hope this helps!
Tim Klymkow
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <ggshaw@uq.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 4:55 AM
Subject: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98 cd.
>Problem: Win95b installed. Want to
>upgrade to Win98. I only have Win98 OEM
>CD. I get the following message after
>Win98 has copied temp files to begin
>install.
>"Your computer has an operating system
>installed, which cannot be upgraded by
>this version.
>
>"error SUO168"
>
<snip>
============= PCWorks Mailing List ===============
Visit Our Random "Member HomePage of the Week":
Shelley Gaffney's "Shelley's Money Making Opportunities"
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/9790/
PCWorks WebPage http://www.telesouth1.com/~pcworks
==============================================
From: "O'Flynn, Austin" <AOFlynn@CHW.EDU> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: PLI Year 2000 Law List <PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU>
To: PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
Subject: Re: [PLI-Y2KLAW] Y2K Testing of Biomedical Equipment by Users
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:59:01 -0800
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Year 200
Readiness Disclosure Statement
Re: Testing of Biomedical Equipment by Users.
If you are concerned about the voiding a system warranty by doing your
testing, it infers you are talking about a relatively new system, in
which case such testing ought to have been provided for in the contract.
We at Catholic Healthcare West have decided not to rely merely on
statements from the vendor with respect to mission critical systems.
All mission critical systems are being tested, including all interfaces.
For newly installed systems, we include such right to test in the
contract, and to test as per our scripts. For older systems, we obtain
not merely a Y2K compliance statement, but all test scripts and results
thereof. We also seek copies from the vendor of any third party
verification of such testing. And then we test the application
ourselves.
You should note that many public Y2K Statements have the same caption as
I have above, that is, they are given pursuant to the Federal Year 2000
Information and Readiness Disclosure Act that such statement cannot be
used against the issuer in any legal action, with certain exceptions.
Therefore, often the public Y2K Statement by a vendor are no more than a
heads up, leaving you to decide whether you want to act on it or not.
Where there are patient lives at risk, due diligence warrants that you
treat such statements as informational only; nothing more.
I have not heard that the FDA is advising hospitals to the contrary.
And even if they were, until they put their dollars on the line or
appropriate regulation is passed, their advice is but circumstantial
evidence at best on what the standard for due diligence should be.
The statement given above is personal and has not been approved or
endorsed by CHW. Austin O'Flynn
Associate Corporate Counsel
CHW
http://www.chw.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: Hanson Research Service, Inc. [mailto:lhanson@HANSONINFO.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 10:58 AM
To: PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
Subject: Re: [PLI-Y2KLAW] Y2K Testing of Biomedical Equipment by Users
Debra --
I recently gave a speech to a medical society on Y2K issues that
included a
discussion about the status of biomedical devices. Research for the
presentation clearly indicated that there are conflicting opinions about
whether reliance on a vendor's claim of Y2K compliance is adequate, or
whether the equipment should be tested independently by an experienced
engineer. Hospitals have been cautious about relying on vendor
certification, especially when the devices are critical to the welfare
of
patients. A New Zealand hospital reported that it had tested a number
of
pieces of one type of medical equipment and found that half were not Y2K
compliant. This alarmed the hospital since the vendor had certified
that
the equipment was Y2K compliant. Some hopitals maintain that it is not
only
necessary to self test a particular device, but every single sample--a
tedious and expensive process. I can supply the citations for the
above,
which do not represent formal medical studies but rather observations
from
medical practitioners. I would be interested in listserv opinion on
what
constitutes due deligence in this matter.
Regards,
Louise
>I represent a health-care provider which uses sophisticated biomedical
>equipment. The company's inside biomedical administrators would like
to be
>able to rely on the public y2k compliance statements issued by the
>equipment vendors to the FDA, and are hesitant to conduct their own
testing
>because, they say, (i) the FDA recommends (prohibits?) against user
>testing, and (ii) the vendor warranties may be nullified if the user
>"tampers" with the software. Does anyone have any opinions on these
>issues, or any authority in support of or against this position? Is it
>reasonable for an end-user to rely on vendor statments of compliance,
or
>should a user (who, of course, has less technical expertise than the
vendor
>concerning its particular piece of equipment) have to test on its own
the
>equipment supplied by a multitude of vendors? The concerns are
two-fold:
> (i) contractual rights of the company against the vendor if it turns
out
>that the equipment is non-compliant; and (ii) potential liability of
the
>company to patients using any equipment which malfunctions.
>
>Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.
>Debra Glazer, Esq.
>Irvine, CA 92612
>(949) 854-0173
>FAX (949) 854-0198
>Debra.Glazer@worldnet.att.net
>
>
>-------------------------------
>PLI-Y2KLAW
>Sponsored by The Practising Law Institute
>810 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10019
>http://www.pli.edu (800) 260-4PLI
>List Moderator: Charles Kerr, ckerr@mofo.com
>Technical Contact: Guy Alvarez, guylaw@yahoo.com
>
>The electronic messages that appear on this list are for informational
>purposes only. They are not intended to be and should not be
>considered legal advice nor substitute for obtaining legal advice from
>competent, independent, legal counsel in the relevant jurisdiction.
>
>Transmission of this information is not intended to create, and
>receipt does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. The
>information contained on this list may or may not reflect the most
>current legal developments.
>
>
Louise Hanson, President E-mail: lhanson@hansoninfo.com
Hanson Research Services, Inc. Phone: (785) 832-9234 (business);
1628 Dudley Court (785) 841-3026 (home)
Lawrence, KS 66044 Fax: (785) 832-9242
-------------------------------
PLI-Y2KLAW
Sponsored by The Practising Law Institute
810 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10019
http://www.pli.edu (800) 260-4PLI
List Moderator: Charles Kerr, ckerr@mofo.com
Technical Contact: Guy Alvarez, guylaw@yahoo.com
The electronic messages that appear on this list are for informational
purposes only. They are not intended to be and should not be
considered legal advice nor substitute for obtaining legal advice from
competent, independent, legal counsel in the relevant jurisdiction.
Transmission of this information is not intended to create, and
receipt does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. The
information contained on this list may or may not reflect the most
current legal developments.
-------------------------------
PLI-Y2KLAW
Sponsored by The Practising Law Institute
810 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10019
http://www.pli.edu (800) 260-4PLI
List Moderator: Charles Kerr, ckerr@mofo.com
Technical Contact: Guy Alvarez, guylaw@yahoo.com
The electronic messages that appear on this list are for informational
purposes only. They are not intended to be and should not be
considered legal advice nor substitute for obtaining legal advice from
competent, independent, legal counsel in the relevant jurisdiction.
Transmission of this information is not intended to create, and
receipt does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. The
information contained on this list may or may not reflect the most
current legal developments.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 5:11 PM
To: admin@onelist.com
Subject: FOR Lupe: testcase2@usa.net spammer
Lupe,
I appreciate your help. I've received another 320+ messages
this afternoon for a total of over 800! My account won't
even let me download anything it's so over taxed.
I hope you can figure this thing out.
Thanks!
Fred Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
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From: Bluespearl@aol.com
<< because I love to flam, >>
New sport in Michigan, Jeff???
Just teasin ya, big guy!
Have a good day!
Peace
Abby
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From: Richard Diederen <Richard.Diederen@ICT.NL> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: Java and COM <Java-COM@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM>
To: Java-COM@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
Subject: Interface pointer leakage in Java?
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:39:46 +0100
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Hi,
I was wondering why DLLHOST.EXE remains active after local or remote
instatiation of a Java COM object.
After running Rational Purify on my application, I found two stubborn
interface pointer leaks:
[W] ILK: COM Interface leak from interface pointer 0x77bc9198, allocated in
CoGetMalloc
Leak from IMalloc interface with reference count of 2 (0x77bc9198)
Allocation location
CoGetMalloc+0xc [C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\ole32.dll
ip=0x67b2175c]
VariantTimeToSystemTime+0x147e [C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\oleaut32.dll
ip=0x6534bcaf]
SysAllocStringLen+0x77 [C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\oleaut32.dll
ip=0x653414be]
SysAllocString+0xb [C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\OLEAUT32.dll
ip=0x553418c0]
execute_java_constructorV+0x3d6f [C:\WINNT\System32\msjava.dll
ip=0x7c03b5bd]
execute_java_constructorV+0x37b4 [C:\WINNT\System32\msjava.dll
ip=0x7c03b002]
execute_java_constructorV+0x3a94 [C:\WINNT\System32\msjava.dll
ip=0x7c03b2e2]
JITresolveInterface+0x421f [C:\WINNT\System32\msjava.dll
ip=0x7c010686]
JITresolveInterface+0x40a3 [C:\WINNT\System32\msjava.dll
ip=0x7c01050a]
JITresolveInterface+0x902 [C:\WINNT\System32\msjava.dll
ip=0x7c00cd69]
[W] ILK: COM Interface leak from interface pointer 0x7c0da8f8, allocated in
CoGetClassObject
Leak from IClassFactory interface with reference count of 1
(0x7c0da8f8)
Allocation location
CoGetClassObject+0xc [C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\ole32.dll
ip=0x67b2178f]
???
[C:\Project\MIP\Java\PMSJClient_General\PMSJClient.exe ip=0x00401682]
???
[C:\Project\MIP\Java\PMSJClient_General\PMSJClient.exe ip=0x0040f059]
Could this be the reason for keeping DLLHOST.exe active or is there another
explanation?
If yes, is there a solution/workaraound for my problem? I explicitly
release my interface pointers
and set my COM objects to null after using them.
Richard.
----------------------------------------------------------------
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From: BetRTimes@aol.com
In a message dated 3/4/99 3:11:27 PM Central Standard Time,
elliemc@viptx.net
writes:
<< BOP on the HEADOLA >>
Uh.. EL, sweetie.....
Jill is the only one that gets to BOP me on the head..
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20dollardeals@onelist.com,freestart@onelist.com
Subject: [NetSnooper] Looking for some new free Business
Opportunities...visit
our sites today...
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:30:45 EST
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From: JCWagner@aol.com
JCW Assocs. Marketing
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my eCode is : JCWagner
http://eCode.com/?JCWagner Get yours yet?
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From: "Larry Mac's" <lmccul@worldnet.att.net> Save Address Block Sender
To: <lmccul@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [fortune] Build Your Business!
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:19:10 -0500
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From: "Larry Mac's" <lmccul@worldnet.att.net>
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----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 9:07 AM
Subject: Evil (Re: three signs of maturity of humankind (was: Science and Religion))
Vinson Jamir wrote in message <36DF2DC1.87B4D101@bellsouth.net>...
> Help me with this. An authenticated source reports 'Abdul-Baha as
>saying, "... all the qualities and admirable perfections of man, are purely
>good, and exist. Evil is simply their nonexistence. So ignorance is the
want
>of knowledge; error is the want of guidance; forgetfulness is the want of
>memory; stupidity [my favorite!] is the want of GOOD SENSE. All these
things
>have no real existence." (Some Answered Questions, p.263)(Emphasis ADDED)
The same man said this:
"This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which
is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the
serpent which is *always* in the midst of, and at enmity with, the
spirits and descendants of Adam. *That enmity continues and
endures.*" (Emphasis ADDED....)
Bahais themselves have confirmed for me the Reality of Evil....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 9:11 AM
Subject: Bahai hypocrisy (Re: Shunning (was: Interesting Conversations))
Ron House wrote in message <36DCC3FF.4F0006B3@usq.edu.au>...
>
>It is easy for Baha'is to be too critical of the rough and tumble of
>Internet discussions. After attending one of the etherial, unworldly
>Baha'i events, one could easily come here and be disappointed.
>Fortunately for me, I learned that the ever so syruppy, hyper-polite,
>prayer-filled people are the most hypocritical and hateful, and that
>politeness is no measure of a person's real spirituality. I prefer to
>ask: who is giving me their _real_ thoughts, held for sincere and good
>reasons, trying to achieve some good in the world? Those are the people
>I feel close to.
I believe Ron is touching on something quite significant about
the Bahai Faith today, including here online.... In my experience
in dealing with soc.religion.bahai, the BCCA, Bahais on Usenet
and now AOL during the last two years, it has indeed been the
nauseatingly spiritual and self-righteous who have been the most
hypocritical, dishonest, and hateful in their opposition to the
freedom of speech and conscience Abdul-Baha respected and
admired....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 9:19 AM
To: abuse@usa.net
Cc: admin@onelist.com
Subject: testcase2@ usa.net spammer - 3 more headers
Three more headers in case these can help you stop
testcase2@ usa.net
More than 1,700 messages have bombarded my account
yesterday and today! Almost all of them are from www.onelist.com
Fred Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
From: Announce_Your_MLM-help@listbot.com Save Address Block Sender
To: testcase2@usa.net
Subject: ListBot Warning
Date: 5 Mar 1999 07:12:36 -0000
From testcase2@usa.net Thu Mar 4 23:12:53 1999
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This is an automatically generated message created by the ListBot system.
This is a warning message to let you know that your mail is bouncing.
If this email reaches you, then please disregard this message.
Thanks!
Sincerely,
The ListBot Team
Part of the LinkExchange family at http://www.linkexchange.com/
From: "L-Soft list server at Practising Law Institute \(1.8c\)"
<LISTSERV@pli.pli.edu> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: PLI-Y2KLAW-request@PLI.EDU
To: Test Case <testcase2@USA.NET>
CC: Guy Alvarez <guylaw@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Your removal from the PLI-Y2KLAW list
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:42:56 -0500
From testcase2@usa.net Thu Mar 4 22:59:42 1999
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Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:42:56
You have been removed from the PLI-Y2KLAW list (PLI Year 2000 Law List)
by Guy Alvarez <guylaw@YAHOO.COM>.
From: Guy Alvarez <guylaw@yahoo.com> Save Address Block Sender
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: testcase2usa.net spammer
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:36:44 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
From guylaw@yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 14:38:15 1999
Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (205.180.60.64)by sendaol.mail.yahoo.com
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Content-Type: text/plain
Wow!
Sound terrible. I will do anything I can to help
I will delete that address immediately.
Second, I cannot find out anything about the individual who subscribed
to this list except for the name they supplied. test case.
Sorry no help there!
I would contact USA NET and find out who owns the account. They must
have registered their names in order to set it up
Hope this helps!
==
Guy Alvarez
List Manager
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 9:37 AM
To: abuse@usa.net
Cc: admin@onelist.com
Subject: testcase2@usa.net spammer - YET MORE HEADERS
Lupe
ONElist Tech Support <admin@onelist.com>
abuse@usa.net
Here are more sample headers and messages.
The messages just keep pouring in. I hope you
can help me. I need my account for business to
make a living!
Fred Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
From: Sparked <sparked1@yahoo.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: brandy@smartbot.net
To: ads-to-the-max@onelist.com
Subject: [fortune] Don't Miss Out On This One! Only $20!
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 05:36:05 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
From testcase2@usa.net Fri Mar 5 06:06:54 1999
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From: Sparked <sparked1@yahoo.com>
Believe it or not!!!
THIS SAME LITTLE AD can put $200-$300 in cash in your
mailbox...EVERYDAY!
Have you tried many other programs only to be disappointed in the
results?
Are you tired of MLM that makes someone else money while you still
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Can you afford $20 to change your financial future forever?
THEN LOOK NO FURTHER! This opportunity is for you!
Begin working for yourself and not for someone else!
NOT MLM.............YOUR OWN home business!
It's working for me and it will for you too........guaranteed!
This little cookie cutter spits out $20 checks to you everyday!
It's a 3-part automated system, consisting of a
KILLER classified ad...a powerful one page
sales letter, delivered by auto responder.
And a QUALITY product, delivered to
your customer by the company.
You can set up today...and actually be
getting checks mailed to you tomorrow.
For complete details: send a blank email to the address below and
place "more info"
in the subject line:
mailto: brandy@SmartBotPRO.net
To sign up for a free web page visit:
http://www.myfreeoffice.com/sparked2
From: "T H" <zapit7@hotmail.com> Save Address Block Sender
To: accesscom@onelist.com
Subject: [tlraab] Money on the NET???
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 05:41:13 PST
MIME-Version: 1.0
From testcase2@usa.net Fri Mar 5 05:49:16 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain
From: "T H" <zapit7@hotmail.com>
If you are serious about tapping into the
MULTI-BILLION DO$$AR internet marketplace...
(and, make no mistake about it...
it is not just the mega companies like
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3. An introduction to HTML that will put you
ahead of the class.
Here is just some of what Item 2 includes:
(autoresponder systems)
(your own classified advertising site)
(your own FFA link site)
(guest book)
(referral system)
(banner creations)
(business opportunities)
(web space)
(e-mail accounts)
(translator)
(software)
(web site analaysis)
(credit card merchant account)
For all the details and ordering information:
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Or to order Items 2 & 3 without the addresses see:
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Thanks and have a great day !!!
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(Custom Web Design and Banners)
*******************************
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From: Sparked <sparked1@yahoo.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: brandy@smartbot.net
To: online_marketing_mlm@onelist.com
Subject: [NetSnooper] Don't Miss Out On This One! Only $20!
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 05:39:14 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
From testcase2@usa.net Fri Mar 5 06:09:51 1999
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Content-Type: text/plain
From: Sparked <sparked1@yahoo.com>
Believe it or not!!!
THIS SAME LITTLE AD can put $200-$300 in cash in your
mailbox...EVERYDAY!
Have you tried many other programs only to be disappointed in the
results?
Are you tired of MLM that makes someone else money while you still
struggle to succeed?
Can you afford $20 to change your financial future forever?
THEN LOOK NO FURTHER! This opportunity is for you!
Begin working for yourself and not for someone else!
NOT MLM.............YOUR OWN home business!
It's working for me and it will for you too........guaranteed!
This little cookie cutter spits out $20 checks to you everyday!
It's a 3-part automated system, consisting of a
KILLER classified ad...a powerful one page
sales letter, delivered by auto responder.
And a QUALITY product, delivered to
your customer by the company.
You can set up today...and actually be
getting checks mailed to you tomorrow.
For complete details: send a blank email to the address below and
place "more info"
in the subject line:
mailto: brandy@SmartBotPRO.net
To sign up for a free web page visit:
http://www.myfreeoffice.com/sparked2
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From: "Doyle Smith" <d_smith27@hotmail.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: ssbdfreeads@onelist.com
To: wildfire@onelist.com
Subject: [ssbdfreeads] Pre-confirmed HOT LEADS.
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 05:14:09 PST
MIME-Version: 1.0
From testcase2@usa.net Fri Mar 5 06:00:44 1999
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From: "Doyle Smith" <d_smith27@hotmail.com>
Pre-confirmed HOT LEADS, qualified leads, advertising space
AND RESIDUAL MONTHLY INCOME
All in One Great Program!
All for as low as $29 per month.
WOW ... THIS ONE IS HOT!!!!!!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: bhmoore2@yahoo.com Save Address Block Sender
To: -0nlythebestOpps@onelist.com
Subject: [-0nlythebestOpps] You'll MARVEL at This Little Money Maker...It's
SO
simple...
Date: 5 Mar 1999 07:42:48 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
From testcase2@usa.net Fri Mar 5 06:21:57 1999
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From: bhmoore2@yahoo.com
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From: AnnieL56@aol.com Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: 40PlusSingles@onelist.com
To: 40PlusSingles@onelist.com
Subject: [40PlusSingles] Re: I think......
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:50:06 EST
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From: AnnieL56@aol.com
In a message dated 3/5/99 4:54:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
zankam@enetis.net
writes:
<< Don't encourage her so early in the morning. >>
Well...i just got thru all the other mail from last night...you guys had
much
more excitement than Jeff asking for a private e-mail address. Proud of all
of you...
-Annie
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From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Love bombing
Dale Grider wrote in message <36DF5968.A1485DD2@bellsouth.net>...
It’s not whether I think I am presenting inarguable
>“facts” that makes the Fireside title valid, it’s the fact that any
>“Fireside” that is going to be more than an exercise is mutual back
>patting is going to have to genuinely welcome and engage sincere dissent
>as part and parcel of the process of discovering truth.
Dale touches here on a valid criticism of Bahai "Firesides." They
are usually indoctrination sessions with little to no give and take.
In general, really, my fellow Bahais are incapable of "engaging
sincere dissent." All they are taught to do by the UHJ is categorically
condemn it, shun it, and pat oneself on the back....
I respect Dale's site and his sincerely held Christian beliefs.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Newsgroup etiquette attn: Joel Marangella & followers
BrentMReed wrote in message
<19990305021550.20118.00000735@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>
>You are so arrogant. It seems that this group rarely ever manifests the
>Spirits of Justice and Fairness, Courtesy and Eloquence, that were so
>beautifully exemplified in the lives and writings of Baha'u'llah and
>'Abd'ul-Baha.
All fair-minded observers will recognize these words as true....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: infallibility (propositional or not?)
Meaningless pyscho-babble, from someone
who regularly censors people on AOL....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
owner@sociologist.com wrote in message <7bovj5$rpi$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I am reposting this message from the listserv, Baha'i Studies.
>------
>
>
>Hi, xxxx,
>
>At 23:10 03/05/1999 +0900, you wrote:
>>I think that, in not essentially different ways, this
>>is the position that Mark takes with regards to
>>religious truth and inerrancy (Mark, tell me if I am
>>wrong).
>
>I agree with you, of course, with respect to objectivity. Some
>people assume that it means total phenomenological reduction or
>epoche (bracketing of biases); whereas most scientists recognize
>the impossibility of Husserl's proposition. Objectivity refers,
>of course, to the use of agreed-upon standards of measurement
>(including tests of reliablity and validity).
>
>An objective study is one in which bias (statistically, standard
>error) is reduced through the implementation of proper controls.
>Therefore, the scientist can be biased (who isn't?), while a
>particular study need not be quite so biased (unless one accepts
>the Marxian view that all researchers are terminally trapped in
>bias by virtue of their social class membership).
>
>Anyway, it is all a matter of degree. No social scientists, that
>I know anyway, would pretend that they are ever completely
>unbiased. Such a situation would negate one's humanness.
>
>Now, with respect to inerrancy, I think you _may_ have missed my
>point. What I am saying is that so-called propositional
>infallibility is reductionistic, i.e., it reduces authoritative
>divine guidance (which is, as I see it, synonymous with
>infallibility [not propositional infallibility]) to rational
>consistency.
>
>Now, I am not saying that the Baha'i teachings are not
>rationally consistent (although I doubt that this can be
>demonstrated fully one way or the other). What I *am* saying is
>that infallibility, IMO, has nothing to do with rational
>consistency (propositional statements).
>
>As I see it, infallibility exists sui generis. It is an emergent
>reality and is not something which can be demonstrated by
>*rational proofs*. Rather, infallibility is _transrational_ (a
>term sometimes used by Ken Wilber).
>
>The human mind has no ability to think in terms of
>infallibility. To us (at least in this world), everything is
>relative.
>
>For instance, what I have found is that each time I feel I have
>resolved one contradiction, I am confronted by additional ones.
>(As R. Khanum has said on more than one occasion, the Baha'i
>Faith is loaded with contradictions.)
>
>Therefore, to my understanding, infallibility refers to
>*authoritative moral guidance*. In other words, following the
>Baha'i Teachings (normative conformity) produces, individually
>and collectively, the outcome intended by its Author
>(Baha'u'llah). Likewise, obeying the Guardian and the House of
>Justice produces the outcome intended by its inspired Source
>(the Bab and Baha'u'llah).
>
>That is why I think it is more useful to focus on authority than
>infallibility. The latter is something we accept (but can't do
>much of anything with). The former is a statement of our
>covenantal responsibilities.
>
>Warmly,
>Mark (A. Foster, Ph.D.), Assoc. Prof. of Sociology
>Johnson County Community College * http://bahai.nu
>http://www.MarkFoster.net * http://MarkFoster.org
>
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:19 PM
Subject: fw Maneck on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on
Subject: Re: Juan Cole - Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 Years On
Date: 3/3/1999 11:52 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Smaneck
Message-id: <19990303235224.08680.00000731@ng-cg1.aol.com>
This is a most interesting statement of Dr. Cole's which has been posted
here, wherein he reaffirms his continuing belief in Baha'u'llah. He also
expresses confusion as to why anyone might have suggested that he was in any
way challenging the Covenant. While there were no doubt numerous mistakes
made in the manner in which Dr. Cole and some other academics were dealt
with, it seems to me that there are and were some
legitimate concerns involved from the standpoint of the Covenant. Leaving
aside a discussion of who did what to whom, I would like to focus on just
one passage from Dr. Cole's present statement. Juan wrote:
>I abhor schism and urge all Baha'is to recognize the legitimate
>authority of the Universal House of Justice in its legitimate spheres of
>authority;
Now it may be that I am misunderstand Juan here, but the question that
arises in my mind is would Juan arrogate to individual Baha'is the right to
decide whether or not the Universal House of Justice *is* operating within
"its legitimate sphere of authority"? If so, it is clear that the Covenant
would thereby be deprived of its very pupose, namely to maintian the unity
of the community in responsiveness to God, for anyone could now choose to
violate
the directives and ignore the policies of the House on the grounds that the
person didn't happen to believe the House was acting within its proper
"sphere." The Covenant would thereby become meaningless and we would
thereby be subject to the very kind schisms which Juan says he decries, for
some could even go so far as to suggest that the House of Justice itself has
violated the Covenant.
warmest,
Susan Maneck
----------
From: Fglaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:21 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Juan Cole - Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 Years On
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>While there were no doubt numerous mistakes made in the manner in which Dr.
>Cole and some other academics were dealt with,
Wow, is that ever a mouthful....
>for some could even go so far as to suggest that the House of Justice itself
>has violated the Covenant.
The UHJ has certainly violated the Teachings on freedom of speech and liberty....
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:26 PM
Subject: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on
Subject: Rob: Juan Cole - Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 Years On
Date: 3/4/1999 12:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Ruletherod
Message-id: <19990304120855.21671.00003617@ng37.aol.com>
>To my way of thinking, a large part of the problem of Convenant-breaking —
if not the entire problem — is that of ego. --Rob
In my experience, Rob, the Egos of Greatest Destruction have been select
Baha'i VIPs with incorrigible egos who preach loyalty to the Covenant every
chance they get. These people, because of this kind of posturing (for
self-aggrandizement), in my observation, have done far more harm to the
Faith than the people
stigmatized as "Covenant-breakers," however justified or
incorrect. The covenantbreakers
are just easier targets.....while the
Big Fish get way with murder. It's all a matter of perspective. It's the
people with hidden agendas we need to worry about, not the soap box
preachers of questionable information.
>Any authority that gets in the way of achieving their aims becomes suspect
in their eyes.
Maybe. But before you cast Juan Cole (see post heading) as a traitor here,
you'd have to walk in his shoes first...something few Baha'is here have
done. As far as I know, the House hasn't branded him a covenantbreaker.
Until then, we shouldn't even be arguing this in reference to him.
>God preserve us from falling into such a trap.
The hysteria surrounding this issue is itself a self-deceptive trap.
If you don't agree with someone like him, simply ignore his message. But he
has every right to express his sincere beliefs (however critical) like
anyone else......as other people have a right to listen if they so choose.
We can be democratic about this,
after all.
----------
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:41 PM
To: RBCFAdmin@aol.com
Cc: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: False TOS by Mark Foster - hikmat folder
I believe Foster is using his power to target people
with TOSs to silence and intimidate them and he
does it here as well by deleting the person's message.
Asserting false TOSs against people violates the TOS
rules, and Foster does it constantly in my opinion.
The ones he's alleged against me are the same type
and that's why I refused and refuse to accept the
burden of emailing you TOSsed messages. AOL has
them. I'm innocent untill proven guilty. The burden of
proof is on you and Foster.
He continues to use his "authority" to the detriment of
AOL members he disagrees with for religious reasons.
I and others, for instance, requested a Folder titled
"Bahai Censorship." He created one titled merely
Censorship which misses the entire point of the Forum.
Further, I've requested since August that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai be added to the Newsgroup menu
along with soc.religion.bahai, the fundamentalist newsgroup.
He has continually made excuses and continues to drag
it along.
I believe it's your responsibility to act as a fair arbiter and
intervene. Notice it's a fair request. Alt.religon.bahai has
had over 30,000 posts to it and existed since April of 1997.
Talk.religion.bahai, newly formed on a Big 8 hierarchy,
had 1,700+ posts in its first month.
AOL should not support the fundamentalists in what is
essentially a legitimate debate over religious interpretations
but allow a free and open discussion, which Foster is
doing everything in his power to stymie.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: fw Maneck on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on
Maneck wrote:
While there were no doubt numerous mistakes made in the manner in which Dr.
>Cole and some other academics were dealt with,
Wow, is that ever a mouthful....
>for some could even go so far as to suggest that the House of Justice
itself
>has violated the Covenant.
The UHJ has certainly violated the Teachings on freedom of speech and
liberty....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 6:52 AM
Subject: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on)
Bahais on AOL have been successful in terminating
my account through a systematic campaign of slander
and deceit.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 6:52 AM
To: HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on)
Bahais on AOL have been successful in terminating
my account through a systematic campaign of slander
and deceit.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: RobertNik@aol.com[SMTP:RobertNik@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 6:53 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St.
In a message dated 08/03/99 11:52:02 GMT, you write:
<< Bahais on AOL have been successful in terminating
my account through a systematic campaign of slander
and deceit.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>>
Oh no. I nver thought it would get to this. look its not that big a deal. its
just the internet after all.
all the best
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: Censored e-mail to srb
budparker@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7br4pb$mg2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>It would not hurt to review what is the legitimate sphere of authority of
the
>UHJ!
>
>Speaking for myself, a Bahai of over 20 years, I never paid to much
attention
>to this and just
>lumped all their actions into "divinely inspired", but the events of last 5
>years have been a wake-up call to deepen myself on this topic.
It is my belief that their "legitimate sphere of authority"
is anything they say it is. What the Bahai Writings say is
irrelevant, especially in terms of individual rights and free
speech and liberty.
I hope my website documents many of the events of the last
ten years. I shall be adding pertinent messages relating to
the Majnun incidents before long, not to mention the events
now on AOL which have affected more people than just myself....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 11:48 AM
To: abuse@mindspring.net
Subject: Re: Issue 990304-3411539
>We feel our user is responsibly maintaining an opt-in mailing list.
>Have you tried the removal instructions? Although it's a bad idea
>to reply to most spam, this is a managed list and I feel that following
>the included procedure may work for you. Remember that someone may have
>owned the address fglaysher@hotmail.com before.
>
>Regards,
>
>Len Gordon
>MindSpring AUP/Abuse Investigator
The spammer at testcase2@usa.net is definitely not running
an opt-in mailing list. I DID NOT request 1,700 pieces of
onelist.com email in a period of TWO days. My name is
extremely rare and no else has owned my address.
Please help stop this bombarding of my account by
deleting his and my address from every list you may run.
Thank you.
Fred Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: abuse@mindspring.net <abuse@mindspring.net>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 11:04 AM
Subject: Issue 990304-3411539
>> Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.31) by
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>
>
>Hello,
>
>We feel our user is responsibly maintaining an opt-in mailing list.
>Have you tried the removal instructions? Although it's a bad idea
>to reply to most spam, this is a managed list and I feel that following
>the included procedure may work for you. Remember that someone may have
>owned the address fglaysher@hotmail.com before.
>
>Regards,
>
>Len Gordon
>MindSpring AUP/Abuse Investigator
>
>"To protect and serve the MindSpring internet community"
>
>Appropriate Use Policy
>http://www.mindspring.net/aboutms/policy.html
>User Agreement
>http://www.mindspring.net/prod-svc/users.html
>Comprehensive Anti-Spam Site
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>
----------
From: MrMahdi@aol.com[SMTP:MrMahdi@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:15 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St...
This is very unfortunate and quite sinister what the bahais on AOL did to you.
I had my account terminated twice, and all I did was get a new account on a
different credit (my mom's credit card so they wont recognize my first name).
Please dont let the fundamentalists win, meaning that if you dont ever get
back on AOL again. You need to stand up for what's right, and not let tyranny
make you quit. When my account was cancelled twice, in a few minutes I was
back on AOL with a different account and screen name because I knew that
injustice will never make me into a quitter. I hope you will do the same. I
am not sure if they will recognize your name if you use a credit card with the
same name, because on the first time my account was cancelled I use another
credit card with my name and nothing unusual happened. The second time I used
my mom's credit card because I didnt have any more credit cards. But I hope
to see you soon and back on AOL. Being back on AOL is a slap to the faces on
the bahais who were sucessful in their campaign in kicking you off. The next
post I will tell you about what happened while I was in the bahai chat, and
what Wendy said about you.
----------
From: MrMahdi@aol.com[SMTP:MrMahdi@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:23 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St...
Two days ago I was in the bahai chat room when I discussed bahai censorship
with Wendy. I asked her about the treatment of some bahais when it came to
independent thinking, and I cited you as an example. Wendy further said that
Fred Glaysher is not a bahai and he might have some mental problems. I asked
her why she said that about you, she replied that you spread lies about the
bahai faith, you attack people with no reason at all, and you are trying to
boost your ego. I told her what about all the personal verbal attacks against
you, she said that you deserve such "criticism" because you have shown nothing
but evil. I wonder where is Wendy's "compassion." Wendy said that bahais
love everybody including their enemies, but how she expressed herself about
you seem to be a clear cut contradiction to that priniciple.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:44 PM
To: MrMahdi@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St...
Thanks Mr. Mahdi for letting me know. May
I post your message on talk.religion.bahai?
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: MrMahdi@aol.com <MrMahdi@aol.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re:
Personal St...
>Two days ago I was in the bahai chat room when I discussed bahai censorship
>with Wendy. I asked her about the treatment of some bahais when it came to
>independent thinking, and I cited you as an example. Wendy further said
that
>Fred Glaysher is not a bahai and he might have some mental problems. I
asked
>her why she said that about you, she replied that you spread lies about the
>bahai faith, you attack people with no reason at all, and you are trying to
>boost your ego. I told her what about all the personal verbal attacks
against
>you, she said that you deserve such "criticism" because you have shown
nothing
>but evil. I wonder where is Wendy's "compassion." Wendy said that bahais
>love everybody including their enemies, but how she expressed herself about
>you seem to be a clear cut contradiction to that priniciple.
>
----------
From: MrMahdi@aol.com[SMTP:MrMahdi@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:56 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St...
Youre welcome. You can post my message, I feel that letting people know whats
going on is something that we need to do. Is it possible to give me a link to
"talk.religion.bahai?" I for some reason never tried to go and see that
place, mainly because I really didnt know where it was exactly. Also, will
you updating your web page any time soon? Would you also list the posts from
you and others that were yanked off by Mark?
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 1:20 PM
To: MrMahdi@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St...
Thanks.
Sure will list my and others' suppressed posts. Send
anything you have and get them on as soon as I can
which may take a while though.
On AOL go Keyword Newsgroups and then
Expert Add talk.religion.bahai and it should be right
there for you. Let me know if you can't find it.
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: MrMahdi@aol.com <MrMahdi@aol.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re:
Personal St...
>Youre welcome. You can post my message, I feel that letting people know
whats
>going on is something that we need to do. Is it possible to give me a link
to
>"talk.religion.bahai?" I for some reason never tried to go and see that
>place, mainly because I really didnt know where it was exactly. Also, will
>you updating your web page any time soon? Would you also list the posts
from
>you and others that were yanked off by Mark?
>
----------
From: Ruletherod@aol.com[SMTP:Ruletherod@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 1:30 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Cc: Ruletherod@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St...
So they finally did it. I'm not surprised because most of the regulars at the
AOL board (there are many more where they came from) are the intolerant
supporters of Baha'i orthodoxy. And then you have the rabid fanatics (mostly
women in my opinion) who think they own the Baha'i faith ("Don't you go
messing with MY religion, buddy!"). Even some Baha'is who've recently joined
the Faith think it's their exclusive club and that you and I were born
yesterday--that we're the unwelcome Strangers in the Night. The irony is that
they're reducing the religions of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah to a series of
sentimental tea cliques and spoiled brat clubs for women. I had higher hopes,
but what can you accomplish when you're routinely perceived as one of the
enemy to be shunned.
It's their shunning mentality, backed up by select writings, that kills it for
me. (They conveniently forget the other writings about fanaticism, reason over
emotion, justice, etc.) The more they hold those self-serving writings up like
a crucifix and cloves of garlic, the more resigned I am never to support the
Baha'i faith again. If they want enemies, they'll have them. And their
definition of the word "enemy" is: "Think like us or you're not one of us."
One of our friends recently told me: The Baha'is like Wendy, Sunni
and Zaynab are doing untold damage to the reputation of the Faith themselves
(in they eyes of neutral lurkers) with their narrow-minded, smug and
exclusionary attitudes...and that the harm they're doing to the Faith is an
unrecognized justice. They're their own worst enemies but they're too filled
with "holy certitude" to know this. They think I'm the one with a screw
loose......but that's another story.
Let me know how things ultimately turn out for you. There's no one else to
side with me at the board anymore (as PL has left and Larry is too turned off)
and the regular crowd is giving me the cold shoulder in the hope that I'll
just leave. I've pretty much done that for now.
Mark's arrival has somehow dulled everything. It was better when it was a
free-for-all and the non-Bahai folder was at the top of the list. The threat
of censorship chills everything.
I was also surprised to learn that many of the regulars at the board like
Wendy, Roger, Debbie and some others are far older than I me.
I'll be 46 myself this May.
Please keep these thoughts confidential or they'll hang me with them. Thanks.
Take care, friend.
----------
From: MrMahdi@aol.com[SMTP:MrMahdi@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 2:15 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St...
Thanks again. I hope to see you back on AOL, I am sure that will be a slap in
the face of the bahais who were successful in getting your account terminated
(like they did mine account twice, but I came came with a "vengence" so to
speak).
----------
From: Ruletherod@aol.com[SMTP:Ruletherod@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 4:54 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Cc: Ruletherod@aol.com
Subject: FYI: Posted views on the board
Fred, I followed the stream of thought of our last e-mail discussion by
mentioning similar points (the one's that I wanted to reword) in some AOL
board folders.
I was replying to comments (to earlier postings of mine) by Wendy and Roy.
Wendy was saying I wasn't a Baha'i in the Forum Leader folder (not entirely
true--but still none of her business) and in the Baha'i Laws folder, Roy was
encouraging me to turn in my Baha'i card and "gracefully bow out." Anyway, I
took the opportunity to express my views. Just wanted you to know. --Rule
PS--I've noticed that the discussions at the Baha'i Studies list rarely
stoop to the levels we've encountered at the B. spirituality board. Susan
also sounds closer to some of our positions there, despite her committed
allegiance to the UHJ/Covenant. I would have been better suited to that
site....less frustrated, perhaps.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 6:40 AM
Subject: fw Mr Mahdi Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on)
FYI
-----Original Message-----
From: MrMahdi@aol.com <MrMahdi@aol.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re:
Personal St...
>This is very unfortunate and quite sinister what the bahais on AOL did to
you.
>I had my account terminated twice, and all I did was get a new account on a
>different credit (my mom's credit card so they wont recognize my first
name).
>Please dont let the fundamentalists win, meaning that if you dont ever get
>back on AOL again. You need to stand up for what's right, and not let
tyranny
>make you quit. When my account was cancelled twice, in a few minutes I was
>back on AOL with a different account and screen name because I knew that
>injustice will never make me into a quitter. I hope you will do the same.
I
>am not sure if they will recognize your name if you use a credit card with
the
>same name, because on the first time my account was cancelled I use another
>credit card with my name and nothing unusual happened. The second time I
used
>my mom's credit card because I didnt have any more credit cards. But I
hope
>to see you soon and back on AOL. Being back on AOL is a slap to the faces
on
>the bahais who were sucessful in their campaign in kicking you off. The
next
>post I will tell you about what happened while I was in the bahai chat, and
>what Wendy said about you.
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
Deana Marie Holmes wrote in message <36d83268.49279794@enews.newsguy.com>...
>
>I occasionally drop in on the Baha'i groups, and I am glad that t.r.b
>passed this time around. I've voted for it on at least two of the
>three occasions it was up for a vote, because I believe in unfettered
>discussion. I am glad to see Michael McKenny and Juan R. I. Cole
>posting here. It distresses me that there are people out there who
>simply have no concept of unfettered discussion, and are trying to
>suppress discussion in the name of what, I am not sure. If your faith
>is that insecure, then maybe you ought to examine your faith.
The people who now run the Bahai Faith are extremely insecure....
>
>I would only like to note that there are a number of people out there,
>including myself, who dislike chaining up discussion, and harassing
>people for their beliefs and their thoughts, and I am distressed to
>hear accounts that this is happening in the Baha'i Faith. I would
>only point to alt.religion.scientology and note that riling people up
>over these issues only tends to make them want to do something about
>it. I may not have much of an interest in Baha'i belief per se, but I
>do have quite an interest in free and open discussion, and I commend
>those who further that aim, and wonder about those whose intent is to
>shut down discussion. (You know who you are.)
Thanks for letting Bahais know how their censorship looks
from the outside.... Unfortunately, I'm sure they'll continue
to ignore such views.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>Carry on!
>
>
>Deana Marie Holmes / member of the "Gang of Three" (Rod Keller)
>The Few, The Proud, The Banned (2x + 1 ISP on Scientology ban list)
>$cientology: Sponsor Windows84: "Where CAN'T you go today?
>mirele@xmission.com
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
jrcole@umich.edu wrote in message <7ba4jh$bha$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>
>Dear Deana:
>
>Bless you! Ever since cyberspace emerged, members of the house of justice
>like Doug Martin, Farzam Arbab and Ian Semple, who live in Haifa, have been
>sending around "counselors" like Stephen Birkland (a professor at Metro
>University in Minneapolis!) and A.M. Ghadirian (Montreal), along with
lesser
>lackeys like their "Auxiliary Board Members" such as Freeman (Kansas City)
to
>call Baha'is to special meetings. At these meetings they are browbeaten
>about their email messages being too liberal, depicting Baha'u'llah as a
mere
>mortal, taking a historical view of scripture. And they are threatened that
>if they don't shut up, they will be disfellowshipped or even shunned.
(Being
>declared a "covenant breaker" in the Baha'i faith means that your Baha'i
>spouse has to divorce you ro face shunning, that Baha'i relatives can't see
>you at family reunions, and that all your Baha'i friends of 25 years must
cut
>you off without a further word).
This kind of shunning also takes place in cyberspace.
>
>And, of course, they simply declared Michael McKenny, a devoted Baha'i for
>quarter of a century, "not a Baha'i", which, of course, led to his
ostracism
>by many of his former Baha'i friends.
>
>The Baha'i authorities have also attempted to suppress scholarly papers,
like
>the one examining the possibility of women serving on the all-male house of
>justice.
>
>I had thought that they were behaving themselves better in the past year
and a
>half, as they allowed TRB to be voted in, and hadn't moved against any
Baha'i
>thinkers for a while. But in fact I have heard rumors of a new round of
>Inquisition recently.
The Bahai fascists in the Administration did not "allow"
talk.religion.bahai to be passed. They definitely fought
it tooth and nail right up to the very last shrieks of Susan
Maneck.... Once again, it was non-Bahais who voted for
and created talk.religion.bahai. The record is in the RESULT
on my website and elsewhere for those who care to look
more in detail.
Let me mention that the moment trb passed, the
fundamentalists dug in their heels on AOL by bringing
back Mark Foster as "Forum Leader." More on that
shortly.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>cheers Juan
>
>
>>
>
>Juan Cole
>History, U of Michigan
>http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai.htm
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
McKenny Michael wrote in message <7bbn72$5fv@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
> Now, if any action is taken against anyone on account of what that
>person has written here, this action should be detailed completely here,
>so that the readers, Baha'is and non-Baha'is, may see what the current
>practise, or lack thereof, of Baha'i principle is.
I shall detail what has taken place to terminate my
AOL account shortly....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
> If really Counsellor Birkland or Counsellor Ghadirian or any other
>Baha'i official is going after people who posted here, or, indeed, anyone
>at all, for the expression of personal opinion, let us read fully about
>it. Let us see what today is considered heresy in the Baha'i Faith, in
>contradiction to Baha'u'llah's urging harmony rather than divisive efforts
>to imposes uniform thought.
> In my opinion, the more openly this dark shadow of inquisition is
>exposed to the light of public scrutiny, the more hesitant officials will
>be to demonstrate their remoteness from the path presented by Baha'u'llah.
> Let us read a full account of all efforts to interfere with freedom of
>expression. I include here all encouragement by such Baha'i officials that
>talk.religion.bahai not be read. However, I especially underline the great
>necessity to place on public record any attempt by such as Counsellors
>Birkland and Ghadirian, acting on behalf of the UHJ, to intimidate and
>silence anyone. If such people succeed in keeping secret their visits and
>their demands people shut up, this allows them to imagine they can profit
>from such unprincipled action. May they realize fully the negative impact
>of such medieval behaviour.
> Let us see the true colour of this creature. In my opinion, by looking
>closely at this, gods willing, a metamorphosis will take place, and the
>entity will become what it was intended. Who, honestly, wishes to be known
>as heading a fundamentalist cult dispatching inquisitors around to enforce
>thought control? Since the thing is advertised as something quite different
>and more beneficial than that, let's shine the spotlight on it, and see if
>actually the light will banish these unwholesome shadows, leaving in real
>existence what is a blessing to humans.
> May no iota of efforts at suppression of conscience remain hidden.
> May the light ever banish all darkness.
> May those charged with diffusing spiritual fragrances be about their
>time consuming task, ceasing this contrary interference in matters of
>conscience.
> To the Future,
> Michael
>
>
>
>>
>> cheers Juan
>>
>--
>"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
> (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:24 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Bahai Censorship on AOL
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further suppress knowledge and information.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL to
add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
new to AOL from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clearly to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
on AOL's list of newsgroups.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices leaves no doubt in my mind that he and other
Bahais, undoubtedly some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: fw Mr Mahdi Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on)
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further suppress knowledge and information.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL to
add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
new to AOL from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clearly to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
on AOL's list of newsgroups.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices leaves no doubt in my mind that he and other
Bahais, undoubtedly some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke with on the phone, was that
I had point out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members requested one titled Bahai Censorship
and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and it's
ability to exploit its TOS system....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:31 AM
To: HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman; RBCFAdmin@aol.com
Subject: Re: fw Mr Mahdi Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on)
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further suppress knowledge and information.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL to
add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
new to AOL from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clearly to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
on AOL's list of newsgroups.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices leaves no doubt in my mind that he and other
Bahais, undoubtedly some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke with on the phone, was that
I had point out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members requested one titled Bahai Censorship
and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and it's
ability to exploit its TOS system....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:42 AM
Subject: fw Mr Mahdi Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on)
FYI
-----Original Message-----
From: MrMahdi@aol.com <MrMahdi@aol.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re:
Personal St...
>Two days ago I was in the bahai chat room when I discussed bahai censorship
>with Wendy. I asked her about the treatment of some bahais when it came to
>independent thinking, and I cited you as an example. Wendy further said
that
>Fred Glaysher is not a bahai and he might have some mental problems. I
asked
>her why she said that about you, she replied that you spread lies about the
>bahai faith, you attack people with no reason at all, and you are trying to
>boost your ego. I told her what about all the personal verbal attacks
against
>you, she said that you deserve such "criticism" because you have shown
nothing
>but evil. I wonder where is Wendy's "compassion." Wendy said that bahais
>love everybody including their enemies, but how she expressed herself about
>you seem to be a clear cut contradiction to that priniciple.
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:49 AM
Subject: Bahai Censorship on AOL (Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account)
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further suppress knowledge and information.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL
to add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai,
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by, my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clear to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
under AOL's Keyword Newsgroups, Expert Add.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads, though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing further uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices, not only mine, leaves no doubt that he and
other Bahais, including some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke with on the phone, was that
I had point out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members had requested one entitled Bahai Censorship
and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and its
ability to exploit the TOS system....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: fw Mr Mahdi Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal Statement on Baha'u'llah, 3 years on)
FYI
-----Original Message-----
From: MrMahdi@aol.com <MrMahdi@aol.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re:
Personal St...
>Thanks again. I hope to see you back on AOL, I am sure that will be a slap
in
>the face of the bahais who were successful in getting your account
terminated
>(like they did mine account twice, but I came came with a "vengence" so to
>speak).
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:53 AM
Subject: fw Mr Mahdi Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account
FYI
-----Original Message-----
From: MrMahdi@aol.com <MrMahdi@aol.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re:
Personal St...
>Youre welcome. You can post my message, I feel that letting people know
whats
>going on is something that we need to do. Is it possible to give me a link
to
>"talk.religion.bahai?" I for some reason never tried to go and see that
>place, mainly because I really didnt know where it was exactly. Also, will
>you updating your web page any time soon? Would you also list the posts
from
>you and others that were yanked off by Mark?
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:57 AM
To: Ruletherod@aol.com
Subject: Re: Posted views on the board
>PS--I've noticed that the discussions at the Baha'i Studies list rarely
>stoop to the levels we've encountered at the B. spirituality board. Susan
>also sounds closer to some of our positions there, despite her committed
>allegiance to the UHJ/Covenant.
Don't trust Susan. I've watched her on
several lists and forums change and stab people
when it suits her purposes.... You should read her
article on hikmat to understand what she's really
doing. There's a link to it on my website and on
Cole's.
I'd really appreciate your revised message. It
would help people on trb to understand that I was
not alone in being attacked by Foster.
Fred
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:59 AM
Subject: fw RobertNik@aol.com Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account
FYI
-----Original Message-----
From: RobertNik@aol.com <RobertNik@aol.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re:
Personal St.
>In a message dated 08/03/99 11:52:02 GMT, you write:
>
><< Bahais on AOL have been successful in terminating
> my account through a systematic campaign of slander
> and deceit.
>
> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
> >>
>
>Oh no. I nver thought it would get to this. look its not that big a deal.
its
>just the internet after all.
>
>
>all the best
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account
Sent to Jerri White, Administrator, Lifestyles Forum,
at AOL prior to my termination:
-----Original Message-----
From: Fglaysher@aol.com <Fglaysher@aol.com>
To: RBCFAdmin@aol.com <RBCFAdmin@aol.com>
Cc: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: False TOS by Mark Foster - hikmat folder
>I believe Foster is using his power to target people
>with TOSs to silence and intimidate them and he
>does it here as well by deleting the person's message.
>Asserting false TOSs against people violates the TOS
>rules, and Foster does it constantly in my opinion.
>
>The ones he's alleged against me are the same type
>and that's why I refused and refuse to accept the
>burden of emailing you TOSsed messages. AOL has
>them. I'm innocent untill proven guilty. The burden of
>proof is on you and Foster.
>
>He continues to use his "authority" to the detriment of
>AOL members he disagrees with for religious reasons.
>I and others, for instance, requested a Folder titled
>"Bahai Censorship." He created one titled merely
>Censorship which misses the entire point of the Forum.
>Further, I've requested since August that alt.religion.bahai
>and talk.religion.bahai be added to the Newsgroup menu
>along with soc.religion.bahai, the fundamentalist newsgroup.
>He has continually made excuses and continues to drag
>it along.
>
>I believe it's your responsibility to act as a fair arbiter and
>intervene. Notice it's a fair request. Alt.religon.bahai has
>had over 30,000 posts to it and existed since April of 1997.
>Talk.religion.bahai, newly formed on a Big 8 hierarchy,
>had 1,700+ posts in its first month.
>
>AOL should not support the fundamentalists in what is
>essentially a legitimate debate over religious interpretations
>but allow a free and open discussion, which Foster is
>doing everything in his power to stymie.
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 9:04 AM
To: ONElist Tech Support
Cc: abuse@usa.net
Subject: Re: TESTCASE2@USA.NET Thanks!
I just want to thank everyone involved in stopping the
testcase2@usa.net spammer. My mailbox is back
to a normal four or five messages a day instead of
800 plus!
Gratefully,
Fred Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ONElist Tech Support <admin@onelist.com>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: TESTCASE2@USA.NET SPAMMER Re: Your account size is too large
>Hi Fred
>
>I have written to testcase2@usa.net and request he cease from sending you
any
>mail. As you are subscribed to ONElist it must be being forwarded
>directly from the email address.
>
>Kate
>ONElist Team
>--
>When replying to this message, please include the entire message.
>ONElist Tech Support Free Mailing Lists
>http://www.onelist.com admin@onelist.com
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 1:12 PM
Subject: REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further withhold knowledge and information
from AOL's more than 14 million members.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL
to add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai,
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by, my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clear to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
under AOL's Keyword Newsgroups, Expert Add.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads, though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing further uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices, not only mine, leaves no doubt that he and
other Bahais, including some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke with on the phone, was that
I had point out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members had requested one entitled Bahai Censorship
and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and its
ability to exploit the TOS system....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 7:54 AM
Subject: REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further withhold knowledge and information
from AOL's more than 14 million members.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL
to add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai,
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by, my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clear to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
under AOL's Keyword Newsgroups, Expert Add.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads, though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing further uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices, not only mine, leaves no doubt that he and
other Bahais, including some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
For an instance of "back-channel" email coercion on AOL see
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
For an instance of Foster's double standard handling
fundamentalist Bahais see Susan Maneck's accusations on
AOL against me of "slander" and references to my views as
"garbage":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke on the phone, was that
I had pointed out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members had requested a Folder entitled Bahai
Censorship and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum
Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and its
ability to exploit the TOS system....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 1999 7:07 AM
To: Ruletherod@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bahais terminate my AOL account (Re: fw Ruletherod on AOL Re: Personal St...
Rule,
Looking again at your message, I'm not sure you need
to revise it. I could post it as from an AOL member who
request annonymity. I don't see anything in it that would
identify you:
>So they finally did it. I'm not surprised because most of the regulars at
the
>AOL board (there are many more where they came from) are the intolerant
>supporters of Baha'i orthodoxy. And then you have the rabid fanatics
(mostly
>women in my opinion) who think they own the Baha'i faith ("Don't you go
>messing with MY religion, buddy!"). Even some Baha'is who've recently
joined
>the Faith think it's their exclusive club and that you and I were born
>yesterday--that we're the unwelcome Strangers in the Night. The irony is
that
>they're reducing the religions of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah to a series
of
>sentimental tea cliques and spoiled brat clubs for women. I had higher
hopes,
>but what can you accomplish when you're routinely perceived as one of the
>enemy to be shunned.
>
>It's their shunning mentality, backed up by select writings, that kills it
for
>me. (They conveniently forget the other writings about fanaticism, reason
over
>emotion, justice, etc.) The more they hold those self-serving writings up
like
>a crucifix and cloves of garlic, the more resigned I am never to support
the
>Baha'i faith again. If they want enemies, they'll have them. And their
>definition of the word "enemy" is: "Think like us or you're not one of
us."
>
>One of our friends recently told me: The Baha'is like Wendy, Sunni
>and Zaynab are doing untold damage to the reputation of the Faith
themselves
>(in they eyes of neutral lurkers) with their narrow-minded, smug and
>exclusionary attitudes...and that the harm they're doing to the Faith is an
>unrecognized justice. They're their own worst enemies but they're too
filled
>with "holy certitude" to know this. They think I'm the one with a screw
>loose......but that's another story.
>
>Let me know how things ultimately turn out for you. There's no one else to
>side with me at the board anymore (as PL has left and Larry is too turned
off)
>and the regular crowd is giving me the cold shoulder in the hope that I'll
>just leave. I've pretty much done that for now.
>
>Mark's arrival has somehow dulled everything. It was better when it was a
>free-for-all and the non-Bahai folder was at the top of the list. The
threat
>of censorship chills everything.
>
>I was also surprised to learn that many of the regulars at the board like
>Wendy, Roger, Debbie and some others are far older than I me.
>I'll be 46 myself this May.
----------
From: Ruletherod@aol.com[SMTP:Ruletherod@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 7:16 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Cc: Ruletherod@aol.com
Subject: Revised version of my message for your site (anonymously)
Dear Fred,
I've edited the following Email you sent me (representing my previous
message). Such revision is necessary or all the people I've mentioned will get
hurt--not my intention. I want to avoid the personal and just speak to the
issue. Because of select words in my original message, some Baha'is would know
right away that I'd written it (and they might anyway). So I've changed them
too. Yes, you can leave my name off it this time so readers will just consider
the message on its own merits. People will be more accepting of my criticisms
if they're not quite so harsh (words that were written when I was upset).
After all, my target audience is a general one, representing all kinds of
lurkers. We have to be tactful and accurate in the final analysis.
Thank you.
______________________________________________________
>So they finally did it [terminated your account]. I'm not surprised because
some of the regulars at the AOL board (there are many more where they came
from) are the intolerant supporters of Baha'i orthodoxy. And then you have a
few zealous extremists who think they own the copyright on the name Baha'i
("Don't you go messing with MY religion, buddy!").
Because some Baha'is don't know "the opposition"
well, they imagine we were born yesterday and haven't studied the Writings;
that we're the unwelcome Strangers in the Night. The sad irony is that they're
reducing the religions of the Bab and Baha'u'llah to a series of sentimental
tea cliques and spoiled brat clubs for society's disfranchised women. I had
higher hopes, but what can you accomplish when you're routinely perceived as
one of the enemy to be shunned?
It's this shunning mentality, backed up by select Writings, that kills it for
me. (They conveniently forget the other writings about fanaticism, reason over
emotion, justice, etc.) The more they hold those self-serving
Writings up like a crucifix and cloves of garlic, the more resigned I am not
to support the Baha'is. If they want enemies, they'll have them.
And their definition of the word "enemy" is: "Think like us or you're not one
of us."
The religious extremists are their own worst enemies (an unrecognized
justice) but they're too filled with "holy certitude" to know this. They think
I'm the one with the screw loose.....but that's another story that I'm
presently consulting my shrink about.
----------
From: Ruletherod@aol.com[SMTP:Ruletherod@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 7:16 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Cc: Ruletherod@aol.com
Subject: Revised version of my message for your site (anonymously)
Dear Fred,
I've edited the following Email you sent me (representing my previous
message). Such revision is necessary or all the people I've mentioned will get
hurt--not my intention. I want to avoid the personal and just speak to the
issue. Because of select words in my original message, some Baha'is would know
right away that I'd written it (and they might anyway). So I've changed them
too. Yes, you can leave my name off it this time so readers will just consider
the message on its own merits. People will be more accepting of my criticisms
if they're not quite so harsh (words that were written when I was upset).
After all, my target audience is a general one, representing all kinds of
lurkers. We have to be tactful and accurate in the final analysis.
Thank you.
______________________________________________________
>So they finally did it [terminated your account]. I'm not surprised because
some of the regulars at the AOL board (there are many more where they came
from) are the intolerant supporters of Baha'i orthodoxy. And then you have a
few zealous extremists who think they own the copyright on the name Baha'i
("Don't you go messing with MY religion, buddy!").
Because some Baha'is don't know "the opposition"
well, they imagine we were born yesterday and haven't studied the Writings;
that we're the unwelcome Strangers in the Night. The sad irony is that they're
reducing the religions of the Bab and Baha'u'llah to a series of sentimental
tea cliques and spoiled brat clubs for society's disfranchised women. I had
higher hopes, but what can you accomplish when you're routinely perceived as
one of the enemy to be shunned?
It's this shunning mentality, backed up by select Writings, that kills it for
me. (They conveniently forget the other writings about fanaticism, reason over
emotion, justice, etc.) The more they hold those self-serving
Writings up like a crucifix and cloves of garlic, the more resigned I am not
to support the Baha'is. If they want enemies, they'll have them.
And their definition of the word "enemy" is: "Think like us or you're not one
of us."
The religious extremists are their own worst enemies (an unrecognized
justice) but they're too filled with "holy certitude" to know this. They think
I'm the one with the screw loose.....but that's another story that I'm
presently consulting my shrink about.
----------
From: Ruletherod@aol.com[SMTP:Ruletherod@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 7:16 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Cc: Ruletherod@aol.com
Subject: Revised version of my message for your site (anonymously)
Dear Fred,
I've edited the following Email you sent me (representing my previous
message). Such revision is necessary or all the people I've mentioned will get
hurt--not my intention. I want to avoid the personal and just speak to the
issue. Because of select words in my original message, some Baha'is would know
right away that I'd written it (and they might anyway). So I've changed them
too. Yes, you can leave my name off it this time so readers will just consider
the message on its own merits. People will be more accepting of my criticisms
if they're not quite so harsh (words that were written when I was upset).
After all, my target audience is a general one, representing all kinds of
lurkers. We have to be tactful and accurate in the final analysis.
Thank you.
______________________________________________________
>So they finally did it [terminated your account]. I'm not surprised because
some of the regulars at the AOL board (there are many more where they came
from) are the intolerant supporters of Baha'i orthodoxy. And then you have a
few zealous extremists who think they own the copyright on the name Baha'i
("Don't you go messing with MY religion, buddy!").
Because some Baha'is don't know "the opposition"
well, they imagine we were born yesterday and haven't studied the Writings;
that we're the unwelcome Strangers in the Night. The sad irony is that they're
reducing the religions of the Bab and Baha'u'llah to a series of sentimental
tea cliques and spoiled brat clubs for society's disfranchised women. I had
higher hopes, but what can you accomplish when you're routinely perceived as
one of the enemy to be shunned?
It's this shunning mentality, backed up by select Writings, that kills it for
me. (They conveniently forget the other writings about fanaticism, reason over
emotion, justice, etc.) The more they hold those self-serving
Writings up like a crucifix and cloves of garlic, the more resigned I am not
to support the Baha'is. If they want enemies, they'll have them.
And their definition of the word "enemy" is: "Think like us or you're not one
of us."
The religious extremists are their own worst enemies (an unrecognized
justice) but they're too filled with "holy certitude" to know this. They think
I'm the one with the screw loose.....but that's another story that I'm
presently consulting my shrink about.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 5:51 AM
Subject: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
FYI - TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT:
So they finally did it. I'm not surprised because most of the regulars at
the
AOL board (there are many more where they came from) are the intolerant
supporters of Baha'i orthodoxy. And then you have the rabid fanatics (mostly
women in my opinion) who think they own the Baha'i faith ("Don't you go
messing with MY religion, buddy!"). Even some Baha'is who've recently joined
the Faith think it's their exclusive club and that you and I were born
yesterday--that we're the unwelcome Strangers in the Night. The irony is
that
they're reducing the religions of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah to a series
of
sentimental tea cliques and spoiled brat clubs for women. I had higher
hopes,
but what can you accomplish when you're routinely perceived as one of the
enemy to be shunned.
It's their shunning mentality, backed up by select writings, that kills it
for
me. (They conveniently forget the other writings about fanaticism, reason
over
emotion, justice, etc.) The more they hold those self-serving writings up
like
a crucifix and cloves of garlic, the more resigned I am never to support the
Baha'i faith again. If they want enemies, they'll have them. And their
definition of the word "enemy" is: "Think like us or you're not one of us."
One of our friends recently told me: The Baha'is like Wendy, Sunni
and Zaynab are doing untold damage to the reputation of the Faith themselves
(in they eyes of neutral lurkers) with their narrow-minded, smug and
exclusionary attitudes...and that the harm they're doing to the Faith is an
unrecognized justice. They're their own worst enemies but they're too filled
with "holy certitude" to know this. They think I'm the one with a screw
loose......but that's another story.
Let me know how things ultimately turn out for you. There's no one else to
side with me at the board anymore (as PL has left and Larry is too turned
off)
and the regular crowd is giving me the cold shoulder in the hope that I'll
just leave. I've pretty much done that for now.
Mark's arrival has somehow dulled everything. It was better when it was a
free-for-all and the non-Bahai folder was at the top of the list. The threat
of censorship chills everything.
I was also surprised to learn that many of the regulars at the board like
Wendy, Roger, Debbie and some others are far older than I me.
I'll be 46 myself this May.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 5:51 AM
To: HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
FYI - TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT:
So they finally did it. I'm not surprised because most of the regulars at
the
AOL board (there are many more where they came from) are the intolerant
supporters of Baha'i orthodoxy. And then you have the rabid fanatics (mostly
women in my opinion) who think they own the Baha'i faith ("Don't you go
messing with MY religion, buddy!"). Even some Baha'is who've recently joined
the Faith think it's their exclusive club and that you and I were born
yesterday--that we're the unwelcome Strangers in the Night. The irony is
that
they're reducing the religions of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah to a series
of
sentimental tea cliques and spoiled brat clubs for women. I had higher
hopes,
but what can you accomplish when you're routinely perceived as one of the
enemy to be shunned.
It's their shunning mentality, backed up by select writings, that kills it
for
me. (They conveniently forget the other writings about fanaticism, reason
over
emotion, justice, etc.) The more they hold those self-serving writings up
like
a crucifix and cloves of garlic, the more resigned I am never to support the
Baha'i faith again. If they want enemies, they'll have them. And their
definition of the word "enemy" is: "Think like us or you're not one of us."
One of our friends recently told me: The Baha'is like Wendy, Sunni
and Zaynab are doing untold damage to the reputation of the Faith themselves
(in they eyes of neutral lurkers) with their narrow-minded, smug and
exclusionary attitudes...and that the harm they're doing to the Faith is an
unrecognized justice. They're their own worst enemies but they're too filled
with "holy certitude" to know this. They think I'm the one with a screw
loose......but that's another story.
Let me know how things ultimately turn out for you. There's no one else to
side with me at the board anymore (as PL has left and Larry is too turned
off)
and the regular crowd is giving me the cold shoulder in the hope that I'll
just leave. I've pretty much done that for now.
Mark's arrival has somehow dulled everything. It was better when it was a
free-for-all and the non-Bahai folder was at the top of the list. The threat
of censorship chills everything.
I was also surprised to learn that many of the regulars at the board like
Wendy, Roger, Debbie and some others are far older than I me.
I'll be 46 myself this May.
----------
From: MrMahdi@aol.com[SMTP:MrMahdi@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 1:06 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
Its sad what happened to you, I hope things will work out for the better. I
often am in the bahai chats, and some of the bahais like Wendy, Zaynab, and
Jool are elated at your non-presense on AOL. It is kind of sad that they will
consider you as a non-bahai and a mad man. I see often from people like then
a snobbish type of I am better than you and I will not deal with those below
me type of attitude. They give the impression that they are real bahais and
anybody who is not up to their standards are less bahai are not bahai at all.
Of course as you know I dont agree with the bahai faith, but that doesnt mean
I will not stand up for a fellow human being when he is being oppressed or
suppressed without right. In this case, a person's religion is irrelevant,
but his honor and him being human is relevant. I have seen persons or groups
of people try to bring down a person, but I never saw such a well-organized
campaign of trying to take a person down all because his views on censorships
are too much for them to handle.
----------
From: MrMahdi@aol.com[SMTP:MrMahdi@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 1:06 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
Its sad what happened to you, I hope things will work out for the better. I
often am in the bahai chats, and some of the bahais like Wendy, Zaynab, and
Jool are elated at your non-presense on AOL. It is kind of sad that they will
consider you as a non-bahai and a mad man. I see often from people like then
a snobbish type of I am better than you and I will not deal with those below
me type of attitude. They give the impression that they are real bahais and
anybody who is not up to their standards are less bahai are not bahai at all.
Of course as you know I dont agree with the bahai faith, but that doesnt mean
I will not stand up for a fellow human being when he is being oppressed or
suppressed without right. In this case, a person's religion is irrelevant,
but his honor and him being human is relevant. I have seen persons or groups
of people try to bring down a person, but I never saw such a well-organized
campaign of trying to take a person down all because his views on censorships
are too much for them to handle.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
FYI - Draft #2 TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT:
>So they finally did it [terminated your account]. I'm not surprised because
some of the regulars at the AOL board (there are many more where they came
from) are the intolerant supporters of Baha'i orthodoxy. And then you have a
few zealous extremists who think they own the copyright on the name Baha'i
("Don't you go messing with MY religion, buddy!").
Because some Baha'is don't know "the opposition"
well, they imagine we were born yesterday and haven't studied the Writings;
that we're the unwelcome Strangers in the Night. The sad irony is that
they're
reducing the religions of the Bab and Baha'u'llah to a series of sentimental
tea cliques and spoiled brat clubs for society's disfranchised women. I had
higher hopes, but what can you accomplish when you're routinely perceived as
one of the enemy to be shunned?
It's this shunning mentality, backed up by select Writings, that kills it
for
me. (They conveniently forget the other writings about fanaticism, reason
over
emotion, justice, etc.) The more they hold those self-serving
Writings up like a crucifix and cloves of garlic, the more resigned I am not
to support the Baha'is. If they want enemies, they'll have them.
And their definition of the word "enemy" is: "Think like us or you're not
one
of us."
The religious extremists are their own worst enemies (an unrecognized
justice) but they're too filled with "holy certitude" to know this. They
think
I'm the one with the screw loose.....but that's another story that I'm
presently consulting my shrink about.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 8:44 AM
To: Barthaman@aol.com
Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
>Fred, you need to take this version down immediately and replace it with
the
>one I sent you this morning. This will burn all my bridges as Baha'is and
non-
>Baha'is will be forwarding it to others. Larry won't like it either because
it
>was sent out without his permission.
Barthaman, you are also Ruletherod, apparently?
I wouldn't worry about burning bridges with the Bahai
fanatics since none really exist.... Who's Larry?
>Oh God, I thought you'd wait long enough for my response.
>I'm writing under this screen name because I'd didn't see it under my other
>one. Some of the Baha'is I mentioned below are friends who won't
>like being listed in this context. I'm embarrassed and saddened. Zaynab,
for
>instance, changed toward me in recent days--now she'll think I've stabbed
her
>in the back.
You can blame it on me. My fellow Bahais need to
hear the undiluted Truth.... I'm sorry if you're mad at
me for posting it. I waited a few days and asked you
if it would be okay anonymously. I clipped your name
and closing and don't really think it will matter since the
fanatics have gone into the shunning mode with
anything I post.
Other people too need to know the truth....
You're first draft has more vigor and life to it.
Fred
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
Smaneck wrote in message <19990313145342.11473.00000238@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>I have just finished communicating with the person who wrote this private
>message to Fred. He had specifically requested Fred *not* publicize his
private
>email and is extremely distressed that his wishes were ignored and his
privacy
>violated in this fashion.
"The Bahai Technique":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 1:40 PM
Subject: fw MrMahdi Re: Bahai Censorship on AOL
FYI
From: MrMahdi@aol.com
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai
Censorship
on AOL)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:06:28 EST
MIME-Version: 1.0
From mrmahdi@aol.com Fri Mar 12 22:08:45 1999
Received: from MrMahdi@aol.comby imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id
iWAJa09661for
<fglaysher@hotmail.com>; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:06:28 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <d62d26f5.36ea0064@aol.com>
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13
View Email Message Source
Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close
Content-Type: text/plain
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Its sad what happened to you, I hope things will work out for the better. I
often am in the bahai chats, and some of the bahais like Wendy, Zaynab, and
Jool are elated at your non-presense on AOL. It is kind of sad that they
will
consider you as a non-bahai and a mad man. I see often from people like
then
a snobbish type of I am better than you and I will not deal with those below
me type of attitude. They give the impression that they are real bahais and
anybody who is not up to their standards are less bahai are not bahai at
all.
Of course as you know I dont agree with the bahai faith, but that doesnt
mean
I will not stand up for a fellow human being when he is being oppressed or
suppressed without right. In this case, a person's religion is irrelevant,
but his honor and him being human is relevant. I have seen persons or
groups
of people try to bring down a person, but I never saw such a well-organized
campaign of trying to take a person down all because his views on
censorships
are too much for them to handle.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 1:44 PM
To: Barthaman@aol.com
Cc: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
Barthaman,
Maneck is making the claim below on talk.religion.bahai:
I have just finished communicating with the person who wrote this
private
message to Fred. He had specifically requested Fred *not* publicize his
private
email and is extremely distressed that his wishes were ignored and his
privacy
violated in this fashion.
Susan Stiles Maneck
History, Stetson University
May I post your message below there in response?
Fred
>From: Barthaman@aol.com
>To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
>CC: Barthaman@aol.com
>Subject: Fwd: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai
Censorship on AOL)
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:26:50 EST
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From barthaman@aol.com Sat Mar 13 07:38:29 1999
>Received: from Barthaman@aol.comby imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id
iENJa15478;Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:26:50 -0500 (EST)
>Message-ID: <472cc36f.36ea83ba@aol.com>
>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4
>
>I lost my computer connection during that time. Larry is Nadle.
>
>Private conversations are often candidly to the point because we're
>assuming our words are not being lurked upon by the people who would be
most
>offended -- including the people we care about. When we think
otherwise, we're
>less candid with the truth......unless it's a public forum.......and
even
>there we don't invite people into our locker rooms to study our
anatomy.
>
>I realize the misunderstanding in this instance. However, my silly
comment
>about some people being older than me may be taken wrong by some as a
putdown
>-- and age has nothing to do with the issues we've been addressing.
Anyway, I
>hope that when the dust clouds finally settle I won't be a handful of
bones
>six feet under.....with my soul stored
>in someone's freezer.
>
><< attach3 >>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 1:56 PM
To: MrMahdi@aol.com
Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai Censorship on AOL)
Mr. Mahdi,
Thanks for saying all this. I appreciate hearing
from someone on AOL who's fair and honest about
what is taking place there. You fully understand the
complexity of the deceit that some Bahais are
committing there, unlike the people in charge of
the AOL TOS system.
I've posted your message on talk.religion.bahai.
Hope you don't mind. I think others would benefit
from hearing your views too.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
-----Original Message-----
From: MrMahdi@aol.com <MrMahdi@aol.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, March 13, 1999 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai
Censorship on AOL)
>Its sad what happened to you, I hope things will work out for the better.
I
>often am in the bahai chats, and some of the bahais like Wendy, Zaynab, and
>Jool are elated at your non-presense on AOL. It is kind of sad that they
will
>consider you as a non-bahai and a mad man. I see often from people like
then
>a snobbish type of I am better than you and I will not deal with those
below
>me type of attitude. They give the impression that they are real bahais
and
>anybody who is not up to their standards are less bahai are not bahai at
all.
>Of course as you know I dont agree with the bahai faith, but that doesnt
mean
>I will not stand up for a fellow human being when he is being oppressed or
>suppressed without right. In this case, a person's religion is irrelevant,
>but his honor and him being human is relevant. I have seen persons or
groups
>of people try to bring down a person, but I never saw such a well-organized
>campaign of trying to take a person down all because his views on
censorships
>are too much for them to handle.
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: fw MrMahdi Re: Bahai Censorship on AOL
Mr. Mahdi,
Thanks for saying all this. I appreciate hearing
from someone on AOL who's fair and honest about
what is taking place there. You fully understand the
complexity of the deceit that some Bahais are
committing on AOL, while those in charge of the AOL
TOS system definitely don't even have a clue....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <7ch0ae$2f0u@news1.newsguy.com>...
>FYI
>
>From: MrMahdi@aol.com
>To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai
>Censorship
> on AOL)
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:06:28 EST
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From mrmahdi@aol.com Fri Mar 12 22:08:45 1999
>Received: from MrMahdi@aol.comby imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id
>iWAJa09661for
> <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:06:28 -0500 (EST)
>Message-ID: <d62d26f5.36ea0064@aol.com>
>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13
>View Email Message Source
>Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Its sad what happened to you, I hope things will work out for the better.
I
>often am in the bahai chats, and some of the bahais like Wendy, Zaynab, and
>Jool are elated at your non-presense on AOL. It is kind of sad that they
>will
>consider you as a non-bahai and a mad man. I see often from people like
>then
>a snobbish type of I am better than you and I will not deal with those
below
>me type of attitude. They give the impression that they are real bahais
and
>anybody who is not up to their standards are less bahai are not bahai at
>all.
>Of course as you know I dont agree with the bahai faith, but that doesnt
>mean
>I will not stand up for a fellow human being when he is being oppressed or
>suppressed without right. In this case, a person's religion is irrelevant,
>but his honor and him being human is relevant. I have seen persons or
>groups
>of people try to bring down a person, but I never saw such a well-organized
>campaign of trying to take a person down all because his views on
>censorships
>are too much for them to handle.
>
>
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 2:02 PM
To: RBCFAdmin@aol.com
Subject: Re: fw MrMahdi Re: Bahai Censorship on AOL
Mr. Mahdi,
Thanks for saying all this. I appreciate hearing
from someone on AOL who's fair and honest about
what is taking place there. You fully understand the
complexity of the deceit that some Bahais are
committing on AOL, while those in charge of the AOL
TOS system definitely don't even have a clue....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <7ch0ae$2f0u@news1.newsguy.com>...
>FYI
>
>From: MrMahdi@aol.com
>To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: Annonymous AOL member on Bahai Forums (REVISED: Bahai
>Censorship
> on AOL)
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:06:28 EST
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From mrmahdi@aol.com Fri Mar 12 22:08:45 1999
>Received: from MrMahdi@aol.comby imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id
>iWAJa09661for
> <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:06:28 -0500 (EST)
>Message-ID: <d62d26f5.36ea0064@aol.com>
>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13
>View Email Message Source
>Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Its sad what happened to you, I hope things will work out for the better.
I
>often am in the bahai chats, and some of the bahais like Wendy, Zaynab, and
>Jool are elated at your non-presense on AOL. It is kind of sad that they
>will
>consider you as a non-bahai and a mad man. I see often from people like
>then
>a snobbish type of I am better than you and I will not deal with those
below
>me type of attitude. They give the impression that they are real bahais
and
>anybody who is not up to their standards are less bahai are not bahai at
>all.
>Of course as you know I dont agree with the bahai faith, but that doesnt
>mean
>I will not stand up for a fellow human being when he is being oppressed or
>suppressed without right. In this case, a person's religion is irrelevant,
>but his honor and him being human is relevant. I have seen persons or
>groups
>of people try to bring down a person, but I never saw such a well-organized
>campaign of trying to take a person down all because his views on
>censorships
>are too much for them to handle.
>
>
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: fw MrMahdi Re: Bahai Censorship on AOL
"The Bahai Technique":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Ken Roberts wrote in message <36EC1374.D82B7DEC@worldnet.att.net>...
>Frederick,
>
>I have only perused this list twice now. I don't normally even view
>newsgroups, let alone participate in them. One thing, though, is
>immediately obvious:
>
>Whenever your name appears in a thread, your name is the ONLY name in
>the thread.
>
>Another thing that comes to mind is that you always claim there's some
>conspiracy someplace. I'm not saying that there isn't, exactly, since I
>have no firsthand knowledge.
>
>Consider this: On most lists I've heard of, being the only person on a
>thread that has many entries is considered spam. Spam is a big problem
>on the internet. Most internet service providers will lock a user out
>who can be proven to have sent spam. It's a perfectly valid complaint,
>like when neighbors complain that a stereo is too loud, or that a party
>is too obnoxious. Spam is like shouting in a library. Everyone knows
>you're there, but nobody will acknowledge your existence until someone
>comes to take you away.
>
>Perhaps you should consider toning your attacks down so that people
>would pay more attention? Talk with another human. It helps you get a
>perspective.
>
>
>Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>>
>> Mr. Mahdi,
>>
>> Thanks for saying all this. I appreciate hearing
>> from someone on AOL who's fair and honest about
>> what is taking place there. You fully understand the
>> complexity of the deceit that some Bahais are
>> committing on AOL, while those in charge of the AOL
>> TOS system definitely don't even have a clue....
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: Juan Cole and the "Orientalists"
mbkafes@bestweb.net wrote in message <7cc8fe$9vm$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Mr Mahdi--
>
>But why on earth would you want him to post a message where you admit to
>fradulently getting an account on AOL twice and encouraging others to do
so?
>Its fraud and illegal. You could get sued. But if you don't care, that's
>certainly ok with me.
Because he obviously doesn't have anything to hide, unlike
the fanatic Bahais on AOL; because he obviously isn't
about to allow himself to be beaten down by a hoard of
liars; because he obviously recognizes that AOL's TOS
system is rife with abuse and shortcomings, as do half the
people on the Internet....
The significant point in all this is the fact that Bahais
are manipulating AOL and driving people off it for
reasons of conscience....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: Juan Cole and the "Orientalists"
I defend the right of Mr. Mahdi and other Muslims to
express their point of view on AOL and elsewhere.
Further, it seems to me, the Bahai writings supposedly
guarantee free speech and conscience to all peoples,
including Muslims. I don't know of a caveat Baha'u'llah
ever made denying such rights to Muslims....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Mr Mahdi wrote in message <19990313143540.07250.00000152@ng67.aol.com>...
>Religion and obeying God are not the same, and dont cofuse the two. Islam
is
>about obeying God the way God want us to obey Him, not the way religion
wants
>us to obey Him.
>
>>Therefore, Baha'is do not 'convert' people from one religion to another.
>>Baha'is believe in and love the prophet Muhammad. From the Baha'i
viewpoint,
>>Muhammad is Jusus (Muhammad says that in the Koran) and Baha'u'llah is
>>Muhammad and Allah is Allah. Baha'is obey God as best they can, and
Muslims
>>do the same.
>
>I am sick and tired of the filthy lies coming from bahais about islam.
>Muhammad (saaw) never said he was Jesus, and nor does the Quran. Show me a
>verse where it says that. Islam is is based on Quran and sunnah, and Islam
>doesnt mean any religion that claims to "submit to God." "Buniya Islam
'ala
>khams" means Islam is built on five pillars, and the bahai faith dont have
>these five pillars. The devil bahaullah is not Muhammad, Muhammad (saaw)
will
>always be Muhammad ibn 'Abdullah. Bahaullah wasnt that. Muhamamd was sent
>with the Quran to all of mankind, while bahaullah try to undermine the
Quran.
>
>>With all that said, God made a covenant with humanity. He kept His
agreement,
>>and has given us Baha'u'llah, so that we might build the 'Kingdom of God
on
>>earth as it is in heaven'.
>
>God never breaks His promise like the Quran says. Read 3:85, 48:28, 5:3,
>3:110, and many other verses. Then come back to me with a response.
>
>>God renewed His Faith by sending Baha'u'llah, He did not 'abrogate' his
own
>>Faith. He changed certain social laws (as did Muhammad), due to changing
>>social conditions. He requires Baha'is to love the authors of all
religions,
>>for they are one, and God is one, and religion is one.
>
>Allah said that Islam is perfect, completed, and chosen. Perfection and
>Completion need no revision. Islam agrees with human natures, and human
nature
>hasnt changed since Adam and Eve. Allah changed laws, Muhammad didnt.
>Muhamamd was obeying Allah not Allah was obeying Muhammad (saaw).
>
>>Muhammad changed the Qiblih, and Baha'u'llah changed it also.
>>
>>Muhammad changed the laws on prayer and fasting. Baha'u'llah changed the
laws
>>also.
>
>Muhammad didnt change the Qiblah (not "Qiblih) nor did he change the prayer
and
>fasting, Allah did. Read 9:36 about the months. Muhammad said in his
"khutba
>ul-Wida' " that there will no new religion after me, nor will there be a
new
>prophet or messenger. This is in total contradiction to the bahai belief.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 6:52 AM
Subject: Technique Bahai
During the last few years or more a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
Juan Cole wrote, February 23, 1999:
"There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear
the
sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to
being
"Baha'i" at all)."
"Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear
their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from
theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'is
or when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith."
"The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to
a
heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall
silent."
"With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the
faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note
that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy,
of
"claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted,
twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,'
and
even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by
*Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them."
"This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all
the
talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a
sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights
dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot
refute."
"Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years.
He
can explain it to you."
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 6:53 AM
Subject: Maneck's Technique
Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
"It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is reading
Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."
"I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of filled with
hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just have
shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself "warmest" and
slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what she is
about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"
Frederick Glaysher, February 15, 1999:
"Ms. Maneck's approach appears to me to be always to
shunt the discussion off or back to who said what where when
why how and so on.... The farther back in time the better, since
the person's memory, being human, is bound to be unable to
keep up or to have stocked the evidence needed on his or her
hard drive or find it on dejanews.com. And it then allows her
to claim pretty much anything she wants to while seeming to
have discredited her opponent. Further, she relies on the
tactics of demagoguery knowing they usually prevail and will be
supported by other fundamentalist Bahais. By shrieking
"slander" and referring to others' opinions as "garbage," she is
able to create an emotional atmosphere that essentially negates
whatever the topic or content might be and that allows her to
appear to win what is often a narrowly legalistic point or
interpretation."
"All of this is done, of course, in conjunction with her employing
the more common Bahai techniques of intimidation and
psychological demonization and terrorism."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 6:54 AM
Subject: FAQ - arb & trb - history
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for
Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai
March 16, 1999
This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with only web access might want to use www.dejanews.com
www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com They all offer reading and
posting capabilities for people who can't directly access
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam.
Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on
America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai
If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this
news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly,
I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try
news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include
the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg."
Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi
tnum=0
David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi
tnum=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below.
Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?"
ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or
are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to
soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdul-Baha:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and
religious conscience.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.]
Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?"
ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here.
(Two years later their NO votes are their only answer.)
Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and
conscience?"
ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for
other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice
stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum,
the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai
and the experience of many Bahais and people who have left the
Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted to news.announce.newgroups.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRFD.htm
Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the
Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to
three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO
against talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of
talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in
effect more than a year and a half later.
March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to
691 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRESULT.htm
April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates
alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/arb.htm
October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated
newsgroups:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ1.htm
November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly
favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives
Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing
list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai
passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and
correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA
committee:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of
Usenet interest polling:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ2.htm
January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRFD.htm
February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES
to 65 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRESULT.htm
May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher
that contain his signature file:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb23.htm
September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a
Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL
removes the TOS after considering both sides of the
issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening
him and the experience of others:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on
Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature
files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses
and the name of the poster:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srbban.htm
October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman
backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House
and attempts to undermine the new support for the
"neutral" RFD:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb67.htm
December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted
to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the
3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRFD.htm
December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins
her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
January 10, 1999:
Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRESULT.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and
other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community,
see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document at http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/FAQ.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 6:55 AM
Subject: brief - srbahai - quotes
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 6:56 AM
Subject: 7-24-98 Universal House of Justice
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: UHJ <secretariat@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <letters@nytimes.com>;
bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai-faith@makelist.com>
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
July 24,1998
Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President
Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran
would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international
community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation
of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
always courting the President and other members of the government,
has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as
I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals,
Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
the Bahai community and administration.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom
of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
Bahai-Discuss Archives.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has
approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for
more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
talk.religion.bahai.
The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if
you will, of Bahai censorship?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 6:58 AM
Subject: Bahai Censorship on AOL
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further withhold knowledge and information
from AOL's more than 14 million members.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL
to add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai,
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by, my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clear to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
under AOL's Keyword Newsgroups, Expert Add.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads, though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing further uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices, not only mine, leaves no doubt that he and
other Bahais, including some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
For an instance of "back-channel" email coercion on AOL see
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
For an instance of Foster's double standard handling
fundamentalist Bahais see Susan Maneck's accusations on
AOL against me of "slander" and references to my views as
"garbage":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke on the phone, was that
I had pointed out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members had requested a Folder entitled Bahai
Censorship and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum
Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and its
ability to exploit the TOS system....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 6:59 AM
Subject: Liberty and conscience - Abdul-Baha
"These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is
sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of
ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the
secrets of the contingent world."
Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: fw MrMahdi Re: Bahai Censorship on AOL
"The Bahai Technique":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Ken Roberts wrote in message <36ED9DEC.934280AF@worldnet.att.net>...
>Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>>
>> "The Bahai Technique":
>> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>So, all you can do is post urls to pre-canned propaganda?
>
>I'm sorry I bothered to post a message to you. I can assure you it
>won't
>happen again.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Love bombing, i.e., Bahai
Somehow I had missed this message when it
was first posted. I believe it is quite perceptive
of some of the tactics that are used in the Bahai
Faith, especially with new adherents who are
regularly flattered for being so spiritual as to perceive
and accept the Bahai truth....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Timothy F. Mulligan wrote in message <36D831DB.C4F8C463@central.uh.edu>...
> I would like to caution non-Baha'is about a
>conversion tactic employed in these newsgroups.
>It is called "love bombing," and it is a common
>cult recruitment ploy.
>
> Baha'i Robert Little is especially given to
>"love bombing." He commonly "bombs" inquirers
>with emotion. For instance, he once cited a
>woman's warm, grandmotherly hugs as a reason to
>believe in Baha'ism. Yesterday, he oozed about
>"laughter" and "joy."
>
> I do not believe that Bahaism meets all the
>criteria for a cult, although it does meet several
>of them. DO NOT underestimate your susceptibility
>to cult tactics like love bombing and the
>witholding by adherents of "difficult" facts about
>their religion.
>
> Mr. Little and other Baha'is here are as much
>victims as they are victimizers. It is a sad
>thing when a human life is spent trying to entice
>others to share a delusion.
>
> You should base your beliefs on solid evidence
>and sound reasoning. Accept no substitutes.
>
>Tim Mulligan
>tmulligan@central.uh.edu
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: 'Here stand I..'
McKenny Michael wrote in message <7cmbsv$kmc@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
The intent of Baha'u'llah was to
>provide an all-inclusive, universal framework. By abandoning the essential
>principles of the Baha'i Faith and underlining only the principle of
>obedience, the Universal House of Justice has transformed what was meant
>to be a world religion into a fundamentalist cult.
I believe these observations are true. Many non-Bahais need
to understand that ultimately it is the Universal House of Justice
that supports and encourages the fanaticism that some Bahais
continue to demonstrate in forum after forum on the Internet,
while negating and undermining the very words of Baha'u'llah
Himself....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: Qur'anic use of rijal = women as well
McKenny Michael wrote in message <7co7rg$d3h@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
>
In
>my opinion it is quite regretable that many people today, both Baha'is and
>those in many other religions, feel it necessary to exclude views and
>individuals, even considering such as inimical, which differ from their
>own.
The reality is that the gentle universalism of its Founders
has simply been lost as it has hardened into a fanatical
institutionalism....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: xxx and the "Orientalists"
Still nursing your grudge?
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Milissa Boyer Kafes wrote in message <7cpcm4$9rs$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Frederick--
>
>You write:
>>the Bahai writings supposedly
>> guarantee free speech and conscience to all peoples,
>> including Muslims. I don't know of a caveat Baha'u'llah
>> ever made denying such rights to Muslims....
>
>
>This is, of course, correct.
>
>It is also true that Baha'u'llah enjoined Baha'is to defend their religion.
>Where is your post refuting Mr Mahd'i's calling Baha'u'llah a devil? Why do
>you hold other's rights to free speech higher than your own duty to defend
>Baha'u'llah?
>
>I think you will find your posts not only read, but much more persuasive if
>people could see *you* using *your* freedom of speech to do something other
>than bitch all the time.
>
>Peace
>Milissa Boyer Kafes
>mbkafes@bestweb.net
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: 'Here stand I..'
Michael McKenny wrote in message <7crect$cr6@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
>
> It is identical within Baha'i. Despite the persecution by the Universal
>House of Justice of those Baha'is who are able to convey convincingly the
>current distance of practise by the Universal House of Justice from the
>essential Baha'i principles, and the quite understandable rejection of the
>Baha'i Faith by those most in tune with these principles, still there is
>spirit in the Baha'i Faith and many spiritual people are drawing energy
>from and walking along this spiritual path.
I couldn't agree more....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: 'Here stand I..'
Michael McKenny wrote in message <7d0bua$l93@freenet-news.carleton.ca>...
>Fantastic constructions of "Compilations of compilations" of recorded
>words of the prophet, the master, the guardian, their secretaries, the
>UHJ, out of context and as literally understood, while permitting a
>certain mindset to feel it has comprehended and contained a vast effusion
>of spirituality, while allowing a certain temperament to exercise power
>and impose its personal perception as authoritative, excludes other views,
>drives away other people, divides instead of harmonizing humanity.
The "compilations" mentality is part of the problem
of Bahai fundamentalism. It often has led to a narrow-minded,
literal ignorance lording itself over others and driving people
out of the Bahai Faith by the tens of thousands.
> May those who have the most invested, in ego, in personal power, in
>self-identification as one of a tiny elite at the peak of an exclusive
>club be empowered by the inspired spirit which is the wellspring of the
>religion to take the essential, necessary and principled steps required
>to transform Baha'i from a divisive cult into a beneficial, constructive
>and harmonizing framework for the well-being, prosperity and advancement
>of human civilization.
It's concomitant is a "tiny elite" that has clawed its way
to the "top."
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: The Meekness of God
Smaneck wrote in message <19990321202115.08406.00000457@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>
>Dear friends,
>
>The problem which necessitated my withdrawal from this forum, I am happy to
>report has been fully and satisfactorily resolved. Now begins the more
>difficult task of finding ways to insure that this sort of thing does not
>happen in the future. Notwithstanding the resolution of this problem, I
have
>decided that my energies can best be devoted elsewhere than on this forum,
so I
>will be spending most of my time on managing the Baha'i Studies list
instead.
You mean your participation in the midwest inquisition
is now complete? How many lashes did you apply?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: The Meekness of God
Smaneck wrote in message <19990322075853.01127.00000001@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
fglaysher wrote:
>>You mean your participation in the midwest inquisition
>>is now complete? How many lashes did you apply?
>>
>
>No one would believe that but you Fred.
Ms. Maneck's quip does not respond to the fact that
Juan Cole and she herself acknowledged approximately
a month ago that a new Bahai inquisition in the midwest had
begun. Perhaps she would like to share with people on
Usenet the verdict....
I can only take her earlier remark regarding her being more
"effective" on the bahai-studies mailing list to refer to her
ability to censor and manipulate the discussion there as
she and Mark Foster have done on AOL, and he in his
previous position as the "moderator" of bahai-studies.
Incidentally, evidence of Foster's censoring me on
bahai-studies may be found in my archives on my website
by searching for his name in files roughly a year to a
year and a half ago.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: The Meekness of God
Smaneck wrote in message <19990323083504.10126.00000018@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
fglaysher wrote:
>>Ms. Maneck's quip does not respond to the fact that
>>Juan Cole and she herself acknowledged approximately
>>a month ago that a new Bahai inquisition in the midwest had
>>begun. Perhaps she would like to share with people on
>>Usenet the verdict....
>
>Innocent.
Quite laughable, really....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: The Meekness of God
Smaneck wrote in message <19990323085855.10138.00000022@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
fglaysher wrote:
>>Perhaps she would like to share with people on
>>>Usenet the verdict....
>>
Maneck wrote:
>>Innocent.
>
And then Maneck added:
> The Universal House of Justice has made in clear that the Instituitons
are
>not to be concerned with policing the thoughts of the believers. But there
will
>always be individual members of the Institutions who just don't get it.
These
>matters can and do get corrected when one works *with* the Institutions.
How can you even write some a false and deceptive
statement? The UHJ has done nothing for the past
decade but tyrannize and terrorize the consciences
of many, many Bahais, driving literally TENS of
THOUSANDS out of the religion. Their tactics have been
amply demonstrated and revealed on the Internet by their
sycophants.
As far as I'm concerned, you're one of them....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: The Meekness of God
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <7dai8l$vbe@news1.newsguy.com>...
>Smaneck wrote in message <19990323083504.10126.00000018@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>
>fglaysher wrote:
>>>Ms. Maneck's quip does not respond to the fact that
>>>Juan Cole and she herself acknowledged approximately
>>>a month ago that a new Bahai inquisition in the midwest had
>>>begun. Perhaps she would like to share with people on
>>>Usenet the verdict....
>>
>>Innocent.
>
>Quite laughable, really....
"These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the
conscience of man is sacred and to be respected;
and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas,
amendment of morals, improvement of conduct,
disclosure of the secrets of the contingent world.
Moreover, if interrogation of conscience, which is one
of the private possessions of the heart and the soul, take
place in this world, what further recompense remains for
man in the court of divine justice at the day of general
resurrection? Convictions and ideas are within the scope
of the comprehension of the King of kings, not of kings;
and soul and conscience are between the fingers of control
of the Lord of hearts, not of [His] servants."
Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 10:53 AM
Subject: Majnun page added to my website
I've added a page on the Majnun incident during
1996 for those interested. It may very well be the earliest
documented attack by Bahais on the Internet on free
speech and conscience.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:35 AM
Subject: REPOST - Technique Bahai
During the last few years or more a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
Juan Cole wrote, February 23, 1999:
"There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear
the
sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to
being
"Baha'i" at all)."
"Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear
their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from
theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'is
or when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith."
"The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to
a
heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall
silent."
"With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the
faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note
that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy,
of
"claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted,
twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,'
and
even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by
*Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them."
"This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all
the
talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a
sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights
dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot
refute."
"Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years.
He
can explain it to you."
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:36 AM
Subject: REPOST - Technique Maneck
Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
"It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is reading
Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."
"I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of filled with
hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just have
shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself "warmest" and
slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what she is
about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"
Frederick Glaysher, February 15, 1999:
"Ms. Maneck's approach appears to me to be always to
shunt the discussion off or back to who said what where when
why how and so on.... The farther back in time the better, since
the person's memory, being human, is bound to be unable to
keep up or to have stocked the evidence needed on his or her
hard drive or find it on dejanews.com. And it then allows her
to claim pretty much anything she wants to while seeming to
have discredited her opponent. Further, she relies on the
tactics of demagoguery knowing they usually prevail and will be
supported by other fundamentalist Bahais. By shrieking
"slander" and referring to others' opinions as "garbage," she is
able to create an emotional atmosphere that essentially negates
whatever the topic or content might be and that allows her to
appear to win what is often a narrowly legalistic point or
interpretation."
"All of this is done, of course, in conjunction with her employing
the more common Bahai techniques of intimidation and
psychological demonization and terrorism."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:37 AM
Subject: REPOST - alt/talk.religion.bahai FAQ & history
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for
Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai
March 30, 1999
This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with only web access might want to use www.dejanews.com
www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com They all offer reading and
posting capabilities for people who can't directly access
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam.
Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on
America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai
If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this
news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly,
I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try
news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include
the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg."
Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi
tnum=0
David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi
tnum=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below.
Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?"
ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or
are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to
soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdul-Baha:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and
religious conscience.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.]
Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?"
ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here.
(Two years later their NO votes are their only answer.)
Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and
conscience?"
ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for
other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice
stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum,
the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai
and the experience of many Bahais and people who have left the
Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted to news.announce.newgroups.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRFD.htm
Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the
Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to
three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO
against talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of
talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in
effect more than a year and a half later.
March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to
691 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRESULT.htm
April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates
alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/arb.htm
October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated
newsgroups:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ1.htm
November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly
favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives
Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing
list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai
passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and
correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA
committee:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of
Usenet interest polling:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ2.htm
January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRFD.htm
February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES
to 65 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRESULT.htm
May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher
that contain his signature file:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb23.htm
September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a
Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL
removes the TOS after considering both sides of the
issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening
him and the experience of others:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on
Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature
files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses
and the name of the poster:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srbban.htm
October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman
backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House
and attempts to undermine the new support for the
"neutral" RFD:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb67.htm
December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted
to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the
3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRFD.htm
December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins
her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
January 10, 1999:
Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRESULT.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and
other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community,
see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document at http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/FAQ.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:38 AM
Subject: REPOST - brief quotes - soc.religion.bahai
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:39 AM
Subject: REPOST - Universal House of Justice - 7/24/98
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: UHJ <secretariat@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <letters@nytimes.com>;
bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai-faith@makelist.com>
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
July 24,1998
Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President
Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran
would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international
community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation
of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
always courting the President and other members of the government,
has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as
I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals,
Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
the Bahai community and administration.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom
of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
Bahai-Discuss Archives.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has
approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for
more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
talk.religion.bahai.
The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if
you will, of Bahai censorship?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:40 AM
Subject: REPOST - Liberty & Conscience - Adbu'l-Baha
"These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is
sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of
ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the
secrets of the contingent world."
Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 6:41 AM
Subject: REPOST - Bahai Censorship on AOL
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further withhold knowledge and information
from AOL's more than 14 million members.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL
to add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai,
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by, my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clear to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
under AOL's Keyword Newsgroups, Expert Add.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads, though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing further uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices, not only mine, leaves no doubt that he and
other Bahais, including some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
For an instance of "back-channel" email coercion on AOL see
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
For an instance of Foster's double standard handling
fundamentalist Bahais see Susan Maneck's accusations on
AOL against me of "slander" and references to my views as
"garbage":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke on the phone, was that
I had pointed out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members had requested a Folder entitled Bahai
Censorship and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum
Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and its
ability to exploit the TOS system....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: billk@erols.com[SMTP:billk@erols.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 3:24 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: hello from a trb reader
Fredrick,
I have read your reposts today. I see you have requoted Juan Cole; I
guess because it is a public e-mail, that is okay to do?
I thought your letter to the UHJ was a move in the right direction.
While I do not support extremes of liberty (as Baha'u'allah has
written), I am distressed at the closing down of dialog, Talisman 1 -
and I think you should get an answer to your letter(s).
I do not equate the killing of an Iranian Bahai to be equal to the
supressing of certain literature -- killing is worse. I do think there
is an overboard attempt to get writing campaigns at every killing.
Wasn't it Shoghi Effendi who prohibited Bahai's from leaving Iran? And
now because of Fundamentalistic Muslims - they are being killed.
The effort a few months ago to actually go to school officials in local
communities to protest the closing of a Bahai college -- that was way
overboard -- and in that instance I could agree that it would be
hypocritical to ban publications and yet protest the closing of a
college.
Well I originally wrote not to critique your article but to ask you a
few questions...
Are you still a Bahai? With some Bahais resigning or being forced out,
I wasn't sure what your status was.
Was there ever pressure put on you to resign?
In the unlikely case anything I write here is of interest in stimulating
other conversation and because I am not sure of net etiquette, here is
the following request -- Do not put this or any part of this on your web
site, trb, or any other internet or other place. You may however exerpt
parts from it without naming me, however I would prefer if you just take
these ideas as your own.
(I am a Bahai from NJ)
Bill K
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 6:34 AM
Subject: fw a Bahai re Bahai Censorship
FYI
Notice the acknowledgment by this Bahai of "some
Bahais being forced out."
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
-----Original Message-----
From: [name & address deleted]
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:20 AM
Subject: hello from a trb reader
>Fredrick,
>
>I have read your reposts today. I see you have requoted Juan Cole; I
>guess because it is a public e-mail, that is okay to do?
>
>I thought your letter to the UHJ was a move in the right direction.
>While I do not support extremes of liberty (as Baha'u'allah has
>written), I am distressed at the closing down of dialog, Talisman 1 -
>and I think you should get an answer to your letter(s).
>
>I do not equate the killing of an Iranian Bahai to be equal to the
>supressing of certain literature -- killing is worse. I do think there
>is an overboard attempt to get writing campaigns at every killing.
>Wasn't it Shoghi Effendi who prohibited Bahai's from leaving Iran? And
>now because of Fundamentalistic Muslims - they are being killed.
>
>The effort a few months ago to actually go to school officials in local
>communities to protest the closing of a Bahai college -- that was way
>overboard -- and in that instance I could agree that it would be
>hypocritical to ban publications and yet protest the closing of a
>college.
>
>Well I originally wrote not to critique your article but to ask you a
>few questions...
>
>Are you still a Bahai? With some Bahais resigning or being forced out,
>I wasn't sure what your status was.
>
>Was there ever pressure put on you to resign?
>
. . .
>(I am a Bahai from [location delelted])
>
>[name deleted]
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: 'Here stand I..'
The reality of the situation is that both these
Bahais have repeatedly attacked and attempted or
been successful at censoring other Bahais and
non-Bahais in several different forums.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990329153653.23482.00002634@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>Rick Schaut wrote:
>>Given that the institutions are
>>the ones calling for, and approving,
>>the compilations with which Mr.
>>Jamir is finding fault, this does
>>constitute an attack on those
>>institutions.
>
>Rick,
>
>Please don't take this message as anything other than the concern of a
Baha'i
>brother.
>
>I really don't see how any of us, as individuals, have the right to say
whether
>someone is attacking the institutions. Have you read many of Vinson's
postings?
>He is a polite and thoughtful believer with a deep understanding of the
>teachings.
>
>You seem, to me, to be arguing for something like verbal inerrancy, or
>propositional infallibility, which is not something that "the institutions"
you
>refer to (including the House of Justice) have, to my knowledge, ever
claimed
>for themselves.
>
>If I said, ten years ago, that I think it is unfortunate that the
Kitab-i-Iqan
>isn't numbered by paragraphs, would that be an attack on the institutions?
As
>you may know, future editions of that book will be numbered in this way.
>
>If I said that I think it is sad that more Writings of the Bab aren't
>published, would that be an attack on the institutions?
>
>My point, again, is that it only the institutions themselves which have the
>right to make this sort of determination. IMO, our responsibility, as
>individuals, is to focus on our own flaws while, at the same time, holding
a
>sin-covering eye to those of others.
>
>Mark A. Foster
>owner@sociologist.com
>RBCF Mark (on AOL only)
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: fw a Bahai re Bahai Censorship
It occurs to me I shouldn't excise this sentence
in my attempt to protect this person from
recrimination by our fellow Bahais:
"You may however excerpt
parts from it without naming me. . . ."
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <7dvlhs$6jc@news1.newsguy.com>...
>FYI
>
>Notice the acknowledgment by this Bahai of "some
>Bahais being forced out."
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [name & address deleted]
>To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Date: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 7:20 AM
>Subject: hello from a trb reader
>
>
>>Fredrick,
>>
>>I have read your reposts today. I see you have requoted Juan Cole; I
>>guess because it is a public e-mail, that is okay to do?
>>
>>I thought your letter to the UHJ was a move in the right direction.
>>While I do not support extremes of liberty (as Baha'u'allah has
>>written), I am distressed at the closing down of dialog, Talisman 1 -
>>and I think you should get an answer to your letter(s).
>>
>>I do not equate the killing of an Iranian Bahai to be equal to the
>>supressing of certain literature -- killing is worse. I do think there
>>is an overboard attempt to get writing campaigns at every killing.
>>Wasn't it Shoghi Effendi who prohibited Bahai's from leaving Iran? And
>>now because of Fundamentalistic Muslims - they are being killed.
>>
>>The effort a few months ago to actually go to school officials in local
>>communities to protest the closing of a Bahai college -- that was way
>>overboard -- and in that instance I could agree that it would be
>>hypocritical to ban publications and yet protest the closing of a
>>college.
>>
>>Well I originally wrote not to critique your article but to ask you a
>>few questions...
>>
>>Are you still a Bahai? With some Bahais resigning or being forced out,
>>I wasn't sure what your status was.
>>
>>Was there ever pressure put on you to resign?
>>
>. . .
>
>>(I am a Bahai from [location delelted])
>>
>>[name deleted]
>>
>
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:03 AM
Subject: Technique REPOST Bahai
During the last few years or more a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
Juan Cole wrote, February 23, 1999:
"There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear
the
sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to
being
"Baha'i" at all)."
"Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear
their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from
theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'is
or when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith."
"The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to
a
heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall
silent."
"With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the
faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note
that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy,
of
"claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted,
twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,'
and
even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by
*Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them."
"This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all
the
talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a
sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights
dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot
refute."
"Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years.
He
can explain it to you."
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:05 AM
Subject: FAQ & History - alt/talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for
Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai
March 30, 1999
This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with only web access might want to use www.dejanews.com
www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com They all offer reading and
posting capabilities for people who can't directly access
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam.
Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on
America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai
If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this
news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly,
I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try
news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include
the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg."
Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi
tnum=0
David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi
tnum=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below.
Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?"
ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or
are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to
soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdul-Baha:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and
religious conscience.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.]
Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?"
ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here.
(Two years later their NO votes are their only answer.)
Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and
conscience?"
ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for
other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice
stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum,
the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai
and the experience of many Bahais and people who have left the
Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted to news.announce.newgroups.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRFD.htm
Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the
Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to
three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO
against talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of
talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in
effect more than a year and a half later.
March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to
691 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRESULT.htm
April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates
alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/arb.htm
October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated
newsgroups:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ1.htm
November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly
favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives
Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing
list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai
passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and
correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA
committee:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of
Usenet interest polling:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ2.htm
January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRFD.htm
February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES
to 65 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRESULT.htm
May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher
that contain his signature file:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb23.htm
September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a
Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL
removes the TOS after considering both sides of the
issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening
him and the experience of others:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on
Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature
files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses
and the name of the poster:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srbban.htm
October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman
backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House
and attempts to undermine the new support for the
"neutral" RFD:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb67.htm
December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted
to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the
3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRFD.htm
December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins
her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
January 10, 1999:
Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRESULT.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and
other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community,
see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document at http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/FAQ.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:06 AM
Subject: Bahai Censorship on AOL
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further withhold knowledge and information
from AOL's more than 14 million members.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL
to add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai,
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by, my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clear to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
under AOL's Keyword Newsgroups, Expert Add.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads, though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing further uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices, not only mine, leaves no doubt that he and
other Bahais, including some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
For an instance of "back-channel" email coercion on AOL see
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
For an instance of Foster's double standard handling
fundamentalist Bahais see Susan Maneck's accusations on
AOL against me of "slander" and references to my views as
"garbage":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke on the phone, was that
I had pointed out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members had requested a Folder entitled Bahai
Censorship and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum
Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and its
ability to exploit the TOS system....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 9:08 AM
Subject: Liberty - Abdul-Baha - Conscience
"These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is
sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of
ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the
secrets of the contingent world."
Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 1999 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: Has Baha'u'llah's Blueprint changed
starjo8853@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7ds8mo$u5j$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>We know that prophecy is subject to change as all things are subject to
change
>and it seems as we examine the Baha'i Faith as it exists today that the
>Blueprint has altered......
Alas, you seem to be right.... The Bahai Faith appears to be
in the grips of a narrow-minded fanaticism that's thoroughly
intolerant of the liberty and freedom of conscience its Founders
lauded and respected. Like most reactionary coups, this one
too seems merely bent on retrenchment and denial....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: Survey Results: A Nosecount
"The Bahai Technique":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
ktookey@mail.coin.missouri.edu wrote in message
<7eas90$2g9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Earlier, I posted a survey in hopes of getting a nosecount of readership in
>this forum. Here are the results, for what it is worth.
>
>Only 8 people responded to the survey. Of the eight, two classified
>themselves as regular Baha'is, three as Baha'is with unusual views, two as
>disaffected Baha'is, and one as a guest. Considering the number of posters
>exceeded 8 during the time period, I think these results say more about
>people's reluctance to participate in a survey than about readership.
>
>As a followup, I looked at posters for about one week. I counted 17
posters,
>many repeat posters. Of the 17, I inferred 6 were posting in favor of a
>standard Baha'i approach, one posted in favor of an unusual interpretation
of
>the Baha'i Faith, one in support of an administration other than the Haifa
>UHJ, two sounded like disaffected former Baha'is, one sounded like a guest,
>and one was definitely a critic. Five of the posters I was reluctant to
even
>infer a classification. I note in passing that most of the posts in favor
of
>a standard Baha'i approach were responses to an earlier post.
>
>Obviously there are no statistically significant results here. It seems to
me
>the majority of traffic is attacks on, disagreements with, and defenses of
>some standard Baha'i position. (This is no surprise on the Internet.) I
>initiated the survey upon noticing, while lurking, a distressing (to me)
lack
>of discussion about as opposed to attacks, disgreements, defenses. You may,
>of course, draw your own inferences at any time. Thanks for listening.
>
>------------------------the original survey------------------
>Out of my own curiosity, I would like to do a nose count of readers of this
>group.
>Please self-classify yourself by answering the following questions:
>(If I have accidently used a word offensive to you, please substitute your
own
>word)
>
>Do you post to this newsgroup regularly, occasionally, or not at all?
>Regular Occasional Quiet
>
>What is your relationship to the Baha'i Faith? (You may give your own
answer,
>but forgive me for suggesting a classification) Regular Baha'is with
standard
>views(usual Baha'i) Regular Baha'is with irregular views(unusual Baha'i)
>member of a competing administration(alternate Baha'i) Former member of the
>Baha'i Faith, involuntary termination (expelled Baha'i) Former member of
the
>Baha'i Faith, voluntary termination (disaffected Baha'i) Never enrolled in
>the Baha'i Faith, please pick a word you like: (seeker,friend,guest,critic)
>Usual, Unusual, Alternate, Expelled, Disaffected, Seeker, Friend, Guest,
>Critic
>
>I promise not to use your email address for anything other than clarifying
>the answer you send. (I accept anonymous answers, but please only one
>response per newsgroup reader) I will post this unscientific nose count
>(totals only) when responses stop coming, as a matter (I hope) of common
>interest. I am NOT asking for arguments in favor of your position, so
please
>keep your response short.
>
>
>Tookey
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@email.msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Maneck's Technique
Kent,
I must say that that's the way I see it too.... The real
worry, though, to me is that the UHJ itself seems to
support the fanatics and fundamentalists and have
themselves perverted the Writings of Baha'u'llah
incontestably supporting free speech and conscience.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
Kent Johnson wrote in message <7e4tqv$4pj$1@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
>It seems to me Cole is referring to a very, very, very weird offshoot of
the
>Baha'i Faith that condones and institutionalizes heresy trials, specific
>shunning practices, and curses. If such practices are Baha'i then I am not
>Baha'i. It seems to me the Faith is better off when Baha'is denounce the
>fundamentalist mind set of other Baha'is.
>
>Warm Baha'i Love, --Kent
>
>Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:7clgmk$na5@news1.newsguy.com...
>> Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
>> "It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is reading
>> Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
>> desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
>> they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."
>>
>> "I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of filled with
>> hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
>> tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
>> and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just have
>> shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself "warmest" and
>> slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what she is
>> about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher, February 15, 1999:
>> "Ms. Maneck's approach appears to me to be always to
>> shunt the discussion off or back to who said what where when
>> why how and so on.... The farther back in time the better, since
>> the person's memory, being human, is bound to be unable to
>> keep up or to have stocked the evidence needed on his or her
>> hard drive or find it on dejanews.com. And it then allows her
>> to claim pretty much anything she wants to while seeming to
>> have discredited her opponent. Further, she relies on the
>> tactics of demagoguery knowing they usually prevail and will be
>> supported by other fundamentalist Bahais. By shrieking
>> "slander" and referring to others' opinions as "garbage," she is
>> able to create an emotional atmosphere that essentially negates
>> whatever the topic or content might be and that allows her to
>> appear to win what is often a narrowly legalistic point or
>> interpretation."
>>
>> "All of this is done, of course, in conjunction with her employing
>> the more common Bahai techniques of intimidation and
>> psychological demonization and terrorism."
>>
>> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
>>
>> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 2:00 PM
Subject: AOL Censorship page added to my website
For those interested I've added a 1/2 megabyte file
of messages relating specifically to Bahai censorship
on AOL. It may be found at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 2:00 PM
To: HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman; RBCFAdmin@aol.com
Subject: AOL Censorship page added to my website
For those interested I've added a 1/2 megabyte file
of messages relating specifically to Bahai censorship
on AOL. It may be found at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 2:11 PM
Subject: AOL Bahai Censorship page added to my website
Make that AOL Bahai censorship....
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <7eg9us$na3$1@remarQ.com>...
>For those interested I've added a 1/2 megabyte file
>of messages relating specifically to Bahai censorship
>on AOL. It may be found at
>
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
>
>
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 5:06 AM
To: CTA
Subject: Robert Hayden audio poem
As editor of his Collected Poems, permit me to mention
there are two errors in the text of the poem on your site
by Robert Hayden.
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
Soledad
Robert Hayden
Read by the author
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
(And I, I am no longer of that world)
Naked, he lies in the blinded room
chainsmoking, cradled by drugs, by jazz
as never by any lover’s cradling flesh.
Miles Davis coolly blows for him:
O pena negra, sensual Flamenco blues;
the red clay foxfire voice of Lady Day
(Lady of the pure black magnolias)
sobsings her sorrow and loss and fare you well,
dyrweeps the pain his treacherous joiners [dryweeps]
have released him from for a while.
His fears and his unfinished self
await him down in the anywhere streets.
He hides on the dare side of the moon, [dark]
takes refuge in a stained-glass cell,
flies to a clockless country of crystal.
Only the ghost of Lady Day knows where
he is. Only the music. And he swings
oh swings: beyond complete immortal now.
From Collected Poems by Robert Hayden. Copyright © 1971 Erma Hayden. Used
with the permission of Liveright Publishing Corporation.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Maneck's Technique
planetjeff@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7egkdf$ri9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <uIZbbFRg#GA.239@upnetnews05>,
> "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@email.msn.com> wrote:
>> Kent,
>>
>> I must say that that's the way I see it too.... The real
>> worry, though, to me is that the UHJ itself seems to
>> support the fanatics and fundamentalists and have
>> themselves perverted the Writings of Baha'u'llah
>> incontestably supporting free speech and conscience.
>>
>[clip]
>
>Huh?!?! In what way exactly do you believe the Universal House of Justice
>has "perverted" the Writings of Baha'u'llah? This sounds like an extreme
>stretch of the imagination and an intentional misuse of a word in an
>incendiary manner.
Not in the least extreme nor incendiary.... The UHJ has
betrayed the Teachings of Baha'u'llah on freedom of
speech and individual liberty. It's consistently support
the fundamentalists and fanatics on soc.religion.bahai,
the BCCA mailing lists, AOL, and elsewhere in cyberspace.
Offline, there's an irrefutable record of Bahai abuse of
the consciences of many, many Bahais and non-Bahais.
The responsibility for these many acts of suppression and
censorship lies in the hands of the members of the UHJ.
You might read Juan Cole's Modernity & the Millennium,
available from Columbia University Press, for a discussion
of Baha'u'llah and Abud'l-Baha's commitment to values
that the UHJ has definitely abandoned and undermined.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:22 AM
Subject: technique BAHAI REPOST
During the last few years or more a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
Juan Cole wrote, February 23, 1999:
"There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear
the
sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to
being
"Baha'i" at all)."
"Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear
their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from
theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'is
or when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith."
"The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to
a
heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall
silent."
"With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the
faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note
that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy,
of
"claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted,
twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,'
and
even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by
*Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them."
"This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all
the
talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a
sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights
dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot
refute."
"Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years.
He
can explain it to you."
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:25 AM
Subject: FAQ history & alt/talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for
Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai
April 11, 1999
This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with only web access might want to use www.dejanews.com
www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com They all offer reading and
posting capabilities for people who can't directly access
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam.
Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on
America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai
If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this
news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly,
I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try
news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include
the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg."
Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi
tnum=0
David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi
tnum=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below.
Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?"
ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or
are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to
soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdul-Baha:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and
religious conscience.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.]
Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?"
ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here.
(Two years later their NO votes are their only answer.)
Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and
conscience?"
ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for
other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice
stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum,
the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai
and the experience of many Bahais and people who have left the
Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted to news.announce.newgroups.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRFD.htm
Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the
Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to
three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO
against talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of
talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in
effect more than a year and a half later.
March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to
691 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRESULT.htm
April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates
alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/arb.htm
October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated
newsgroups:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ1.htm
November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly
favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives
Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing
list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai
passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and
correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA
committee:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of
Usenet interest polling:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ2.htm
January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRFD.htm
February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES
to 65 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRESULT.htm
May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher
that contain his signature file:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb23.htm
September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a
Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL
removes the TOS after considering both sides of the
issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening
him and the experience of others:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on
Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature
files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses
and the name of the poster:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srbban.htm
October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman
backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House
and attempts to undermine the new support for the
"neutral" RFD:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb67.htm
December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted
to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the
3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRFD.htm
December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins
her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
January 10, 1999:
Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRESULT.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and
other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community,
see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document at http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/FAQ.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:28 AM
Subject: Bahai Censorship - AOL
In August of 1998 I took out an account on AOL. It quickly
became apparent that my fellow Bahais were using AOL in
such a way as to further withhold knowledge and information
from AOL's more than 14 million members.
It appeared to me that there were four main issues.
Alt.religion.bahai, which had been created in April of 1997
and which had had more than 20,000 messages posted
to it, was not even offered in the list of AOL newsgroups.
AOL personnel with which I spoke over the phone were
very puzzled why it wasn't and even implied that some
action would have had to have been taken to keep it from
automatically being picked up and added to their newsgroups.
It took more than a month of strenuous effort to get AOL
to add alt.religion.bahai.
On the AOL Bahai Forums it became apparent that Bahais
were manipulating and controlling information by NOT making
it available, by essentially preserving the frozen, non-functioning
state of affairs or the status quo:
1. The Libraries were not accepting new uploads for others
then to download and read.
2. The list of Newsgroups on the Main Menu for Bahai offered
only soc.religion.bahai with no mention of alt.religion.bahai,
or talk.religion.bahai once it was created in January of 1999.
Coupled with soc.religion.bahai's suppression of all mention
of alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai, this prevents people
from even hearing of their existence.
3. The available links for Web Sites on the Main Menu for Bahai
did not offered my website The Bahai Faith & Religious
Freedom of Conscience, though it has to be one of the most
visited sites on the Bahai Faith with more than 7,000 hits since
May 1998.
As the months went by, my repeated attempts to improve these
deficiencies met with greater and greater opposition from the
Bahai fundamentalists on AOL. Similiarly, my requests, beginning
in August of 1998, that the Forum Leader, Mark Foster, who no
one had seen for months, resign, for derilection of duty, were
increasingly opposed while various excuses were offered for his
absence. Not until talk.religion.bahai was passed five months
later in January 1999 did he suddenly reappear only to begin
immediately reporting absolutely EVERY message I posted to
AOL as a TOS. It quickly became clear to me that he was
back in order to target and build a case against me to have me
suspended from AOL. My account was then temporarily suspended
on three different occasions and finally terminated March 6, 1999.
Of the four issues, only two have partially been remedied.
1. Alt.religion.bahai and now talk.religion.bahai are available
under AOL's Keyword Newsgroups, Expert Add.
2. The Libraries are accepting some uploads, though Foster banned
the 15+ megabytes I uploaded in late February of my entire
archive of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and which is at least
available on my website. It's obvious Foster is finding pretexts for
suppressing further uploads.
While Foster has claimed since mid-January that alt.religion.bahai
and talk.religion.bahai would be added to the Main Menu under
Newsgroups, he continued to make excuses for it not happening.
As of March 9, 1999 they were not yet listed under Newsgroups
along with soc.religion.bahai.
All of these factors, coupled with Mark Foster's abuse of his
position as Forum Leader and his harassing and targetting of
dissenting voices, not only mine, leaves no doubt that he and
other Bahais, including some among the Bahai Administration,
are involved in censoring discourse on AOL.
For an instance of "back-channel" email coercion on AOL see
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
For an instance of Foster's double standard handling
fundamentalist Bahais see Susan Maneck's accusations on
AOL against me of "slander" and references to my views as
"garbage":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
The immediate pretext for terminating my account, according
to the AOL official with whom I spoke on the phone, was that
I had pointed out in a newly created Folder called Censorship that I
and other AOL members had requested a Folder entitled Bahai
Censorship and thereby undermined the authority of the Forum
Leader....
In closing let me add that AOL personnel are extremely uninformed
about the Bahai Faith, especially its practice of censorship, and its
ability to exploit the TOS system....
Half a megabyte of messages documenting Bahai censorship
on AOL may be found at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:29 AM
Subject: conscience, liberty: Abdul-Baha
"These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is
sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of
ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the
secrets of the contingent world."
Abdul-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:30 AM
Subject: Maneck, her technique
Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
"It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is reading
Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."
"I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of filled with
hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just have
shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself "warmest" and
slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what she is
about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"
Frederick Glaysher, February 15, 1999:
"Ms. Maneck's approach appears to me to be always to
shunt the discussion off or back to who said what where when
why how and so on.... The farther back in time the better, since
the person's memory, being human, is bound to be unable to
keep up or to have stocked the evidence needed on his or her
hard drive or find it on dejanews.com. And it then allows her
to claim pretty much anything she wants to while seeming to
have discredited her opponent. Further, she relies on the
tactics of demagoguery knowing they usually prevail and will be
supported by other fundamentalist Bahais. By shrieking
"slander" and referring to others' opinions as "garbage," she is
able to create an emotional atmosphere that essentially negates
whatever the topic or content might be and that allows her to
appear to win what is often a narrowly legalistic point or
interpretation."
"All of this is done, of course, in conjunction with her employing
the more common Bahai techniques of intimidation and
psychological demonization and terrorism."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:33 AM
Subject: 7-24-98 - UHJ's betrayal of Baha'u'llah
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: UHJ <secretariat@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <letters@nytimes.com>;
bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai-faith@makelist.com>
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
July 24,1998
Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President
Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran
would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international
community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation
of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
always courting the President and other members of the government,
has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as
I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals,
Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
the Bahai community and administration.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom
of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
Bahai-Discuss Archives.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has
approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for
more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
talk.religion.bahai.
The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if
you will, of Bahai censorship?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 8:34 AM
Subject: srb - censorship
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 9:38 AM
To: msnmembercommunications3
Subject: Re: United States TS MSN 2.6 fglaysher 4/7/99 12:19:34 PM
Daniel,
You've misread my concern.
There are three newsgroups on the Bahai Faith:
alt.religion.bahai
soc.religion.bahai
talk.religion.bahai
MSN offers the first two but not the last one:
talk.religion.bahai, which covers different topics
from the first two.
I know all three of them are available on AOL.
Could you, or whoever the person would be,
consider adding talk.religion.bahai too?
I'd appreciate it.
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: msnmembercommunications3 <msnmembercommunications3@msn.com>
To: 'fglaysher@email.msn.com' <fglaysher@email.msn.com>
Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: United States TS MSN 2.6 fglaysher 4/7/99 12:19:34 PM
>Hello,
>
>Thank you for posting to Ask msn Member Support. I appreciate the
>opportunity to assist you.
>
>If you are having problems using the newsgroups with Outlook Express, then
>here are some settings that we need to check:
>* Open Outlook Express.
>* Click on Tools > Accounts.
>* Click on the News tab at the top of the Internet Accounts screen.
>* Highlight Msnnews.msn.com under Account, and click on Properties at the
>right.
>* Click on the Server tab at the top.
>* Make sure there is not a check mark next to "This server requires me to
>log on."
>* Click on Apply/OK.
>* Repeat these steps for Netnews.msn.com EXCEPT make sure there is a check
>mark next to "This server requires me to log on." Also, you will need to
>place a check in "Log on using Secure Password Authentication."
>
>This should allow you to access both newsgroups successfully.
>The Support for Internet Explorer (all versions), Outlook Express,
>Dial-Up Networking, NetMeeting, Internet Mail & News, etc., belongs
>to the Internet Support Technical team. You may contact them at
>425-635-7123, or online at http://support.microsoft.com/support/
>
>
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>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: fglaysher@email.msn.com [SMTP:fglaysher@email.msn.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 11:22 AM
>To: msnmembercommunications3@msn.com
>Subject: United States TS MSN 2.6 fglaysher 4/7/99 12:19:34 PM
>
>[Description]
>Question = I'm a new member to msn.com. I notice a favorite newsgroup I
>use all the time is not available: talk.religion.bahai Is there anyway you
>can add that to the list? It was just passed on a Usenet wide vote in
>January of 1999 and offers different discussion topics from
>alt.religion.bahai or soc.religion.bahai
>
>Thanks!
>
>Fred Glaysher
>fglaysher@msn.com
>
>Error Message = None
>
>[Routing Information]
>Country = United States
>Member ID = fglaysher
>Email ID = fglaysher@email.msn.com
>Reference Number = fglaysher471999121934
>
>[Technical Details]
>Modem Model =
>MSN Access # =
>CPU Type = 586
>OS = Win95
>Program Viewer = MSN 2.6
>Internet Explorer = MSIE 4.01
>
>[Question Details]
>Date/Time of occurrence = 4/7/99 12:19:34 PM
>
>[MSN Component Version Details]
>User Agent String = Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; MSN 2.6; Windows
>95)
>
>ENUM::00000000D900B5FABC7BD211B4E100104B6DF96984353204
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: technique (Glaysher) - > REPOST
"The Bahai Technique":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
kohli@mail.ameritel.net wrote in message
<7ere32$f5l$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <923836925.376.102@news.remarQ.com>,
> "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>(familiar compilation snipped)
>
>Dear Fred,
>
>I share your concern about freedom of expression. I find the internet a
>wonderful place for folks to express themselves. I see spam as one of the
>biggest obstacles to that expression. When one individual presumes that
their
>message is really what people want, despite lack of indication that the
>message is wanted, that message gets the same priority as a message that
>others really do want. With a sea of messages, spam dilutes the messages of
>others, messages that are wanted, messages that are other people's
>expressions.
>
>It is unfortunate that you have been banned from some segment(s) of the
>internet. Please consider that some may see you as spamming and what you
may
>see as censorship, others see as protection of their freedom of expression
>from someone who has their own canned means of diluting others expressions.
>
>v/r
>Pat
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck: The anti-muslim bigot
Mr Mahdi wrote in message <19990412142029.02130.00002193@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
>Susan has increased her racist attacks on Islam in the AOL bahai messages
>boards. I want people who are members AOL to got to the bahai message
boards
>and see for yourself. I am just amazed on how Susan has a PhD, her
rebuttals
>and her apologetic nature in intellectual discussion just makes you wonder
did
>she pay someone to approve her dissertation. She with the help of other
bahai
>fundies launched a campaign against Fred Glaysher as as you all know he was
>kicked off AOL. Susan can with impunity attack Islam and lie about
Muhammad
>(saaw) and the Quran and Hadith. But if a person is to respond to her
lies, he
>or she might get their post yanked off and sent to TOS. People need to the
>that Susan Maneck has a history of bigotry esp. towards Islam and Muslims.
>Mahdi
Can't say I'm surprised.... She has on many occasions
shown herself to be quite capable of the most unscrupulous
deceit and intrigue and on a number of forums. I doubt if
anyone at AOL has enough sophistication to see through
what she's really doing and how the AOL forums are
manipulated by her and Mark Foster.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 3:59 PM
To: HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman; RBCFAdmin@aol.com
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck: The anti-muslim bigot
Mr Mahdi wrote in message <19990412142029.02130.00002193@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
>Susan has increased her racist attacks on Islam in the AOL bahai messages
>boards. I want people who are members AOL to got to the bahai message
boards
>and see for yourself. I am just amazed on how Susan has a PhD, her
rebuttals
>and her apologetic nature in intellectual discussion just makes you wonder
did
>she pay someone to approve her dissertation. She with the help of other
bahai
>fundies launched a campaign against Fred Glaysher as as you all know he was
>kicked off AOL. Susan can with impunity attack Islam and lie about
Muhammad
>(saaw) and the Quran and Hadith. But if a person is to respond to her
lies, he
>or she might get their post yanked off and sent to TOS. People need to the
>that Susan Maneck has a history of bigotry esp. towards Islam and Muslims.
>Mahdi
Can't say I'm surprised.... She has on many occasions
shown herself to be quite capable of the most unscrupulous
deceit and intrigue and on a number of forums. I doubt if
anyone at AOL has enough sophistication to see through
what she's really doing and how the AOL forums are
manipulated by her and Mark Foster.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck
Ken2040 wrote in message <19990412153508.06955.00001764@ng136.aol.com>...
>Mahdi,
> Susan has said some wonderful things about Islam on the Message Boards. I
>don't think it is fair or accurate to name-call like this. Ken
Name call? I find it amusing that you defend her
on such a count. Vintage Bahai Technique....
If you're truly concerned about name calling, you might wish to
reprimand her for her references to my opinions as "slander"
and "garbage."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
Or do you find those references palatable?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck: The anti-muslim bigot
R. G. Boomers wrote in message ...
>
>Dr. Maneck has been one of the most interesting, helpful,
>and friendly posters in the Bahai newsgroups. Not many are
>going to listen to your accusations without you providing
>examples of her alleged bigotry and lies.
>
>George
She's a deceiful liar who in conjuction with Mark Foster
is manipulating and suppressing information on AOL.
I suggest you and others honestly seeking to decide for
themselves read:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
http://209.185.176.10/~fglaysher/AOLcensorship.txt
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck: The anti-muslim bigot
For an example of the way Wendy and other
Bahais, including Maneck, operate on AOL
see
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
Mr Mahdi wrote in message <19990412200211.27487.00002043@ng16.aol.com>...
>>Dr. Maneck has been one of the most interesting, helpful,
>>and friendly posters in the Bahai newsgroups. Not many are
>>going to listen to your accusations without you providing
>>examples of her alleged
|