This file is the oldest export of Outlook Express that I have
saved - 10-24-99. Many prior posts and files lost during system
crashes. Many duplications may exist in subsequent or other achives.
Some posts simply never made it into an archive.
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 8:48 AM
Subject: AOL Bahai Forums - Steve Case, Mark Foster
Dear Mr. Foster:
I and others on AOL would appreciate your
resigning from your position [as Forum Leader] so that something
may begin to improve. We have been discussing
periodically since at least August your disapperance
and now ask you to step down.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the trb CFV ballot.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the trb CFV ballot.
-------------
Rough Draft to Steve Case:
Dear Mr. Case,
There are serious and long standing problems with the
way the Bahai Forums are run. As members of AOL,
who pay $21.95 a month, we're concerned that AOL is
permitting unknowingly a very high level of censorship
and manipulation to take place by essentially religious
zealots who will not permit others to speak their minds.
As members, former members, or non-members of the
Bahai Faith, we have witnessed censorship practiced by
Bahais in many forums on and off the Internet. We presently
are attempting to create an unmoderated newsgroup,
talk.religion.bahai on Usenet. Frederick Glaysher's web
site documents numerous abuses by Bahais of the human
rights of members and non-Bahais:
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
We ask you to investigate the situation on the AOL Forums
and appoint someone as Forum Leader who will be a fair and
objective person allowing all opinions to find expression
and not abuse their duties in favor of fanatical views or perhaps
appoint two or three people to counterbalance one another
with veto power so that at least some kind of system of checks
and balances might exists to protect people from the tyranny
of past Bahai Forum Leaders.
At the very least, we feel the resolution must allow the following
changes under the Bahai Forums which some members have
been advocating since the middle of August 1998:
alt.religion.bahai and any new future newsgroups on the Bahai
Faith, such as talk.religion.bahai, should it pass, ought to be
added to the list of available Newsgroups under Bahai
Libraries should finally function and accept all postings to them
of any point of view uncensored by the Forum Leader.
Such web sites as Frederick Glaysher's The Bahai Faith &
Religious Freedom of Conscience should be added to Links
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm and any other
link suggested by an AOL member ought to be automatically
added to the list and not censored for religious reasons.
We know that the Bahai AOL Forums have had a stormy
history. We hope that you will help us find a lasting solution to
these profound problems of religious freedom and conscience.
At the moment, we believe the "frozen" nature of the Bahai
Forums very much plays into the hands of those opposed to
freedom of speech and hope a compromise can be reached
allowing for a new atmosphere of openness and toleration on
AOL's Bahai Forums.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the trb CFV ballot.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 7:14 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: My Response to AOL Shawna T
Subj: Bahai Forums - Why Susan Maneck should be made Message Board Manager
Date: 12/16/1998 7:12:29 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
To: ShawnnaT
CC: Fglaysher
Shawnna T
Office of the Chairman
Dear Shawnna,
Thank you for acknowledging my message to Mr. Case.
I appreciate your re-routing it to the appropriate person
as AOL and I look forward to hearing from him or her.
Since my original message to you efforts by some Bahais
to use the AOL forums to undermine the Usenet system
of interest polling on talk.religion.bahai have only increased,
especially by Susan Maneck. It's a very complicated
situation with a long and tulmultous history on AOL.
I trust the person you're referring me to will have the
patience and tenacity to help improve the Bahai Forums.
Respectfully,
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the "trb CFV."
------
Subj: Bahai Forums - Why Susan Maneck should be made Message Board Manager
Date: 12/15/1998 9:43:39 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: Steve Case
To: Fglaysher
Dear fglaysher,
I am responding to your letter on behalf of Steve Case. Thank you for taking
the time to write to us.
We appreciate member feedback because it is the best way for us to know what
we are doing right -- and what we could do better.
I have passed your comments to the appropriate person at America Online.
Please feel free to write us again at any time.
Sincerely,
Shawnna T
Office of the Chairman
-------------------------
Dear Mr. Case:
The continuing serious negelect of the Bahai Forums
would not be solved in the best interest of all AOL members
by appointing Susan Maneck. My experience with her on a
scholar mailing list h-bahai at the University of Michigan and
her recent attacks on the creation of talk.religion.bahai on
Usenet convince me that she would not be a fair arbiter. She
has recently threatened to violate Usenet interest poll custom
by calling for a NO vote against the proposed newsgroup
talk.religion.bahai, which has been defeated in the past by
a massive NO vote campaign mounted by other Bahais in a
similar fashion: http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
I hope you will help find a solution to prevent another such Bahai
from having control over the free speech and conscience of AOL
members.
Specifically she has continued to ignore my and others' concerns
about 3 key areas. I've clipped them out of the REVISED PETITION:
alt.religion.bahai and any new future newsgroups on the Bahai
Faith, such as talk.religion.bahai, should it pass, ought to be
added to the list of available Newsgroups under Bahai
Libraries should finally function and accept all postings to them
of any point of view uncensored by the Forum Leader.
Such web sites as Frederick Glaysher's The Bahai Faith &
Religious Freedom of Conscience should be added to Links
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm and any other
link suggested by an AOL member ought to be automatically
added to the list and not censored for religious reasons.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm Talk.religion.bahai voter
ballot is on news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
or email the votetaker dave@dogwood.com requesting the "trb CFV."
-----Original Message-----
From: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu
<fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>; house@usq.edu.au <house@usq.edu.au>;
johnwalker@ozemail.com.au <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>;
fran@amber.crhc.uiuc.edu <fran@amber.crhc.uiuc.edu>; smaneck@stetson.edu
<smaneck@stetson.edu>; rdsteph@ibm.net <rdsteph@ibm.net>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 5:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: talk.religion.bahai]
>Resending this to all due to a typo I made in Susan's email address.
>--Fran
>
>Fran Baker wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, Susan, but sometimes an appeal to courtesy is not appropriate.
>> I have to let my coproponents know what you are planning to do.
>> I can't believe you are letting a personality conflict resulting
>> from a passionate disagreement color your judgment in what is
>> essentially a human rights issue. You have crossed a line here.
>>
>> --Fran
>>
>> PS Who is rdsteph@ibm.net? Hi, whoever you are!
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: talk.religion.bahai
>> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:31:28 -0500
>> From: "Susan Maneck " <smaneck@stetson.edu>
>> To: rdsteph@ibm.net
>> CC: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>>
>> Dear Ron and Fran,
>>
>> I am seriously contemplating calling for a "no" vote on
>> talk.religion.bahai. I wanted to contact you first and explain to you
>> my rationale because I know this is something you have both
>> worked hard for. In the past I have not participated in the votes at
>> all. I wouldn't vote for it because I wanted nothing to do with a list
>> promoted by Fred and I felt that there ought to be the requisite
>> number of 150 truly interested individuals to form it. On the other
>> hand, I would not vote now because I thought it wrong because I
>> did not think that an unmoderated list should be opposed in
>> principle. Now, however, I find the manner in which Fred is going
>> about seeking to establish this list to be more than I can stomach
>> and publicly calling for a "no" vote appears to be the only way to
>> register the extent of our outrage against this kind of behaviour.
>> What I refer to specifically is the campaign of slander and calumny
>> against not only the Institutions, but against myself and the Bahai
>> Studies list. As you know, he accuses this list and me of
>> censorship, which you yourself know is not true. He is also trying
>> to prevent my managing the Baha'i Message Board of AOL for the
>> same reason. He constantly spams that Board making any
>> genuine discussions virtually impossible.
>>
>> I'm going to sit on this a couple of days and give myself a cooling
>> off period before taking any action, but I've really had it "up to here"
>> with this jerk.
>>
>> Please do me the courtesy of not forwarding this message to Fred
>> (although you may convey my sentiments and my intentions). I do
>> not care to see it up in his website tomorrow.
>>
>> warmest, Susan
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 9:47 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: 3 Issues
Subject: 3 Issues
Date: 12/27/1998 9:28 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
Message-id: <19981227092856.12903.00001848@ng-fd1.aol.com>
At the end of 1998, the 3 Issues remain here on the Bahai
Forum:
alt.religion.bahai added to newsgroups
Libraries functioning and accepting all postings to them and
uncensored by Bahais.
My web site The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
added to Web Sites and all others freely accepted as well:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
baha'i
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 8:44 AM
To: talisman; bahai-faith @ egroups.com
Subject: Antinomies - Robert Browning, Dostoevsky
From a May 1992 letter:
I've been reading lately a narrative poem by Robert
Browning, "Bishop Blougram's Apology." I've read it a number of
times over the years, and it's one that I continue to think
about. The character of the bishop is partly based on John Henry
Newman and another contemporary figure in the Roman Catholic
Church, the latter of whom was especially noted for his abuse of
power and position. Over dinner, the bishop justifies his
corruption to a young journalist who has noticed his calculation,
insincerity, and hypocrisy. In much of the poem, Browning is
dealing with the nature of religious doubt. While the bishop is
a hypocrite who embraces Catholicism because it gives him "cabin
comforts" and the "estimation" of the masses, the journalist is
charmingly naive in his insistence that religious faith should be
"absolute." In a marvelous passage Browning recognizes the
complex duality of the human soul:
No, when the fight begins within himself,
A man's worth something. God stoops o'er his head,
Satan looks up between his feet--both tug--
He's left, himself, i' the middle: the soul wakes
And grows. Prolong that battle through his life!
Never leave growing till the life to come!
ll. 690
Putting this truth in a sophist's mouth, Browning probes much
deeper into the struggle for faith than the "pious" usually allow
themselves. To my mind, the health of the spirit requires that
freedom--given by God--to doubt and question and probe every
single dogma of religion in its oppressively organized phase. On
the other hand, Browning's point is partly that doubt itself,
like evil and suffering, is a test of one's belief, for mature
belief can only grow out of the struggle with doubt.
There is something deeply, inescapably, eternally
dialectical in the human being and in the very nature of
existence, the way it develops, evolves, progresses.
Dostoevsky, in his chapter "The Grand Inquisitor," In The
Brothers Karamazov, meditates dialectically on the dilemma of
free will and obedience to religious authority. Christ returns
during the Spanish Inquisition and is imprisoned by the Grand
Inquisitor who accuses Christ of leading men into confusion by
giving them freedom of choice and conscience. The Grand
Inquisitor informs Christ that
We have corrected Your work and have now founded it on
miracle, mystery, and authority. And men rejoice at
being led like cattle again, with the terrible gift of
freedom that brought them so much suffering removed
from them.
The Inquisitor goes on to tell Christ that man's "greatest need
on earth" is "to find someone to worship, someone who can relieve
him of the burden of his conscience, thus enabling him finally to
unite into a harmonious ant-hill where there are no dissenting
voices. . . ." In place of individual responsibility to God, the
Inquisitor promises to free mankind from "the frightening torment
they know today when they have to decide for themselves how to
act." Christ listens to this sophist without uttering a word,
and then, at the end, before being allowed to leave, rises and
kisses the Inquisitor. Ivan, a nihilist, who relates this story,
asserts all too accurately that in the modern world "everything
is permitted." The Grand Inquisitor, grasping for power, a
character to whom Nietzsche must have responded deeply, "doesn't
believe in God." Dostoevsky knew these rich tensions were part
of human nature. At times, the Bahá'í administration grossly
fails to understand that Bahá'u'lláh has also blessed humankind
with this burden of freedom and responsibility.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 8:00 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Antinomies - Frodo, Prospero
Frodo:
"But I have been too deeply hurt, Sam. I tried to save the Shire,
and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam,
when things are in danger; some one has to give them up, lose
them, so that others may keep them. But you are my heir...."
Prospero:
"Now my charms are all o'erthrown,
And what strength I have's mine own,
Which is most faint....
But release me from my bands,
With the help of your good hands.
Gentle breath of yours my sails
Must fill, or else my project fails,
Which was to please. Now I want
Spirits to enforce, art to enchant;
And my ending is despair
Unless I be relieved by prayer,
Which pierces so, that it assaults
Mercy itself, and frees all faults.
As you from crimes would pardoned be,
Let your indulgence set me free."
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 8:23 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Antinomies - Milosz
"It appears that my oeuvre is Christian and even (practically)
irreproachable according to the criteria of Catholic theology.
I am not so sure, though I like to hear this. Certainly, it stands
out against the background of twentieth century poetry, also
Polish poetry, which is agnostic or atheist. Yet the religious
content of my poems is not the result of design by a believer;
it grew out of my doubts, turmoil, and despair, as they
searched for a form. If not for a strong heretical seasoning,
the religious content would not have been there. Thus, my
resistance to being squeezed into the rubric of "Catholic
poet" was well founded."
Czeslaw Milosz, Road-side Dog
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 8:50 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: soc.religion.bahai - brief quotations
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 12:19 PM
Subject: Abdu'l-Baha on conscience & liberty
"These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is
sacred and to be respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of
ideas, amendment of morals, improvement of conduct, disclosure of the
secrets of the contingent world."
Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 6:38 AM
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: UHJ <secretariat@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <letters@nytimes.com>;
bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai-faith@makelist.com>
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
July 24,1998
Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President
Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran
would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international
community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation
of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
always courting the President and other members of the government,
has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as
I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals,
Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
the Bahai community and administration.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom
of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
Bahai-Discuss Archives.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has
approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for
more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
talk.religion.bahai.
The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if
you will, of Bahai censorship?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 7:25 AM
Subject: The Bahai Technique
During the last year and a half, a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Steven Scholl[SMTP:sscholl@jeffnet.org]
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 12:40 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: Fw: Call for Manuscripts - - New Publisher
Dear Fredercik,
I noticed in your message the following:
>>While the first book I'll be publishing this August is moving along
>>well, I'm considering also publishing this year a collection of the
>>articles on my website I've called Assorted Controversial
>>Documents:
>>
>>"A Modest Proposal" 1987
>>"The Service of Women" 1988?
>>"Crisis of Faith" 5/15/96
>>Letter: Stephen Birkland, Continental Board of Counsellors 7/16/96
>>"Baha'i Leaders Vexed by On-Line Critics" Winter 1997
>>Mark Towfiq's NO Vote Campaign on BCCA mailing lists 3/12/97
>>Susan Maneck's NO Vote Campaign on AOL 12/7/98
I have no problem with you posting my e-mail materials on your site but I
do not want to see these writings end up in your proposed book. I suggest
you stick to more official documents like the Service of Women paper, you
CAN use A Modest Proposal and you should publish all the homosexuality
documents and responses from gay and lesbian Baha'is. That would make for a
stronger book.
Hope this helps.
Steve
_______________________
Steven Scholl, Publisher
White Cloud Press
PO Box 3400
Ashland OR 97520
Phone/fax 541-488-6415
e-mail: sscholl@jeffnet.org
Web: http://www.whitecloudpress.com
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 7:48 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: REPOST - alt/talk.religion.bahai - FAQ-history
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for
Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai
February 6, 1999
This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with only web access might want to use www.dejanews.com
www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com They all offer reading and
posting capabilities for people who can't directly access
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam.
Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on
America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai
If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this
news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly,
I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try
news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include
the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg."
Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi
tnum=0
David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi
tnum=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below.
Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?"
ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or
are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to
soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdu'l-Baha:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and
religious conscience.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.]
Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?"
ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here.
(Two years later their NO votes are their only answer.)
Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and
conscience?"
ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for
other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice
stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum,
the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai
and the experience of many Bahais and people who have left the
Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted to news.announce.newgroups.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRFD.htm
Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the
Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to
three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO
against talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of
talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in
effect more than a year and a half later.
March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to
691 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRESULT.htm
April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates
alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/arb.htm
October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated
newsgroups:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ1.htm
November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly
favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives
Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing
list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai
passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and
correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA
committee:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of
Usenet interest polling:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ2.htm
January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRFD.htm
February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES
to 65 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRESULT.htm
May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher
that contain his signature file:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb23.htm
September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a
Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL
removes the TOS after considering both sides of the
issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening
him and the experience of others:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on
Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature
files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses
and the name of the poster:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srbban.htm
October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman
backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House
and attempts to undermine the new support for the
"neutral" RFD:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb67.htm
December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted
to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the
3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRFD.htm
December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins
her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
January 10, 1999:
Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRESULT.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and
other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community,
see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document at http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/FAQ.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: K. Paul Johnson[SMTP:pjohnson@vsla.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 11:56 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: Your Gnosis article
According to Frederick Glaysher:
>
> Paul,
>
> I'd like to reprint your article "Baha'i Leaders Vexed by On-Line
> Critics" from Gnosis in a collection of pieces I mentioned recently
> on trb. It would at a minimum include these controversial pieces
> from my website:
>
> A Modest Proposal" 1987
> "The Service of Women" 1988?
> "Crisis of Faith" 5/15/96
> Letter: Stephen Birkland, Continental Board of Counsellors 7/16/96
>
> Please let me know if this would be acceptable to you and
> whether you know of anything else I might include.
Hey Fred,
I'm OK with it, although have doubts about the market for such a
book.
Cheers,
Paul
----------
From: Juan R Cole[SMTP:jrcole@umich.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 1:34 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: Collection of Articles
Fred:
Jackson's email is up under editors at the H-Bahai site.
I didn't actually have anything to do with writing that piece in the sense
of composing words. I think I was in Egypt and incommunicado. I did, I
suppose, help inspire it in the early 1980s with some informal comments to
some of the authors. I didn't mind having my name appended, but I was out
of the loop then and didn't know about the controversies generated till
later.
cheers Juan
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
> Juan,
>
> I'm unfamiliar with Jackson. Could you send
> me his email if you have it? I thought you were
> one of the authors of the Service of Women.
> The copy I have has your name on it:
>
> The Service of Women on the Institutions of the Baha'i Faith
>
> Anthony A. Lee, Peggy Caton, Richard Hollinger, Marjan Nirou, Nader
> Saiedi, Shahin Carrigan, Jackson Armstong-Ingram, and Juan R. I.
> Cole.
>
> Who did write it?
>
> Fred
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juan Cole <jrcole@umich.edu>
> To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 1:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Collection of Articles
>
>
> >
> >Dear Fred:
> >
> >I don't know the history of the Service of Women paper from the inside
> >because I wasn't around then; maybe in Egypt. Steve Scholl or Jackson would
> >be the ones to ask.
> >
> >
> >cheers Juan
> >
> >
> >
>
----------
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 6:29 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: fglaysher@hotmail.com; RBCFAdmin@aol.com
Subject: (no subject)
This person is referring to my opinions as "vitriol"
and in other insulting terms, while Mark Foster the
putative Forum Leader permits it employing his
double standard since she's a true blue Bahai
fundamentalist.
Fglaysher@aol.com
Subject: Re: Folder changes being discussed
Date: 2/27/1999 3:14 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Wrldunity9">Wrldunity9</A>
Message-id: <19990227151411.16109.00000862@ng116.aol.com>
Hi Susan,
Yes, but still ... "two wrongs don't make a right."
My original comment was for Fred also. And as I always tell my daughter, no
matter what anyone or everyone else does, you are responsible for yourself,
and you can't go wrong taking the high road.
I hope that one day Fred will realize that if he indeed had any valid point to
make on his so-called "technique," his continual spamming and spreading of
vitriol only influences people to avoid his message. Obsession is not a
pretty thing, and I hope Fred can find a way to overcome it and be happy
instead.
Most sincerely,
Becky
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Kathy Pascoe wrote in message <36fc499b.240054124@news.newsguy.com>...
>
>Deana, please don't jump on Robert either. I don't think any threats to
>shun people have come from him.
Like many of the Bahai fundamentalists here on trb,
he has accused or intimated that people were or are
covenant breakers many times during the last few years.
Skim around in www.dejanews.com or my archives for
examples. Try keyword covenant breaker etc....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990228103054.11960.00004460@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>You're a liar and you know it....
>
>Fred,
>
>I would be careful with those accusations. I have many remedies at my
disposal
>(which I may have considered), you know. How much money do you have?
Notice, like Maneck, when caught redhanded, the new technique
seems to be legal threats....
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Kathy Pascoe wrote in message <37067c0d.252969591@news.newsguy.com>...
>On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:47:19 GMT, mirele@newsguy.com (Deana Marie
>Holmes) wrote:
>
>> On 28 Feb 1999 15:30:54 GMT, rbcfmark@aol.com (RBCF Mark) wrote:
>>
>> >>You're a liar and you know it....
>> >
>> >I would be careful with those accusations. I have many remedies at my
disposal
>> >(which I may have considered), you know. How much money do you have?
>>
>> <snort>
>>
>> I'd like to see this one played out in court.
>>
>> It would be a black eye for the Baha'i Faith.
>
>No, it might be a black eye for Mark. It might be a black eye for the
>Administrative Order if they supply the attorney.
The AO has lots of hack Iranian "attorneys" who have no
respect for legal and political system. I would find it most
eloquently amusing for the likes of Maneck, Foster, Towfiq,
Hyman, and such other fanatics to attempt to redeem their
"good" names in court. I doubt any jury of 12 would look at
the evidence on www.dejanews.com or my archives and
rule in their favor....
>People in lots of newsgroups make noises about attorneys that they never
>follow though on, so I'm of the opinion that threats about taking legal
>action shouldn't be posted at all.
>
>(In the news.admin.net-abuse.* hierarchy, spammers get mocked about
>their 'cartooneys', since the 'attorneys' they threaten people with are
>invariably non-existent.)
>
>To Mark: stay above the fray. If someone calls you names repeatedly,
>and you don't respond at that level, or with legal threats you've no
>intention of carrying out, that person tars him or herself more than you
>are tarred (my opinion, of course, YMMV, yadda yadda).
Far from tar, he has lied when he claimed he was not
targetting me nor be unfair in his abuse of the AOL TOS
system. Several other AOL members have emailed me.
I'm sure they'd be happy to appear in court on my behalf too....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>--
>Kathy Pascoe ~ kathy@scconsult.com (at home)
>Confused about newsgroups? Visit <news:news.newusers.questions>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:04 PM
To: TOSBoards1; HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Kathy Pascoe wrote in message <37067c0d.252969591@news.newsguy.com>...
>On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:47:19 GMT, mirele@newsguy.com (Deana Marie
>Holmes) wrote:
>
>> On 28 Feb 1999 15:30:54 GMT, rbcfmark@aol.com (RBCF Mark) wrote:
>>
>> >>You're a liar and you know it....
>> >
>> >I would be careful with those accusations. I have many remedies at my
disposal
>> >(which I may have considered), you know. How much money do you have?
>>
>> <snort>
>>
>> I'd like to see this one played out in court.
>>
>> It would be a black eye for the Baha'i Faith.
>
>No, it might be a black eye for Mark. It might be a black eye for the
>Administrative Order if they supply the attorney.
The AO has lots of hack Iranian "attorneys" who have no
respect for legal and political system. I would find it most
eloquently amusing for the likes of Maneck, Foster, Towfiq,
Hyman, and such other fanatics to attempt to redeem their
"good" names in court. I doubt any jury of 12 would look at
the evidence on www.dejanews.com or my archives and
rule in their favor....
>People in lots of newsgroups make noises about attorneys that they never
>follow though on, so I'm of the opinion that threats about taking legal
>action shouldn't be posted at all.
>
>(In the news.admin.net-abuse.* hierarchy, spammers get mocked about
>their 'cartooneys', since the 'attorneys' they threaten people with are
>invariably non-existent.)
>
>To Mark: stay above the fray. If someone calls you names repeatedly,
>and you don't respond at that level, or with legal threats you've no
>intention of carrying out, that person tars him or herself more than you
>are tarred (my opinion, of course, YMMV, yadda yadda).
Far from tar, he has lied when he claimed he was not
targetting me nor be unfair in his abuse of the AOL TOS
system. Several other AOL members have emailed me.
I'm sure they'd be happy to appear in court on my behalf too....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>--
>Kathy Pascoe ~ kathy@scconsult.com (at home)
>Confused about newsgroups? Visit <news:news.newusers.questions>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990228171349.13527.00006519@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>Hi, Kathy -
>
>I appreciate the input, and you are probably right about staying out of the
>fray. However, I don't say things that I don't mean.
>
>Of course, considering one's options doesn't *necessarily* mean that one
will
>pursue them. And there is nothing to be gained by rushing into such things.
As
>I see it, time is on my side. ;-)
>
>Cordially, Mark Foster
You're a liar. You claimed you have not targetted me, and you
have.... Others have thought so too on AOL. You don't deserve
to be called a "Forum Moderator." You're obviously censoring
for the Bahai fundamentalists there, as has been done by
others on soc.religion.bahai, bahai-discuss, and so forth.
Your specious excuses twisting the TOS rules only redounds
to your shame....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:07 PM
To: TOSBoards1; HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990228171349.13527.00006519@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>Hi, Kathy -
>
>I appreciate the input, and you are probably right about staying out of the
>fray. However, I don't say things that I don't mean.
>
>Of course, considering one's options doesn't *necessarily* mean that one
will
>pursue them. And there is nothing to be gained by rushing into such things.
As
>I see it, time is on my side. ;-)
>
>Cordially, Mark Foster
You're a liar. You claimed you have not targetted me, and you
have.... Others have thought so too on AOL. You don't deserve
to be called a "Forum Moderator." You're obviously censoring
for the Bahai fundamentalists there, as has been done by
others on soc.religion.bahai, bahai-discuss, and so forth.
Your specious excuses twisting the TOS rules only redounds
to your shame....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990227231928.15440.00001973@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>Hi, Juan -
>
>I agree that the Baha'i community needs to be more tolerant of diversity.
It
>saddens me that we are so far from conforming to the standard that
`Abdu'l-Baha
>taught us.
How about you Mark and your constant hatch jobs on
people on AOL? I find it disgusting that you come in
here and pretend to liberality of motive....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990227232123.15440.00001976@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>I think that doctrinal unity means that we accept the essentials (whatever
they
>are <g>). However, I have also observed a tendency of people to simply echo
>each other, which strikes me as a lack of critical thought.
You're obviously regularly exploiting this pronounced pattern
of the fundamentalist lackies on AOL.... You know you can
count on them to chime in when you need them to shore up
your deceitful attacks that pretend to be supporting the TOS
rules.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:12 PM
To: HANI72#aol.com; CRust60001#aol.com; AAli929596#aol.com; ccrawfeild@aol.com; Mr Mahdi; Nadle; Ruletherod; Macho786#aol.com; Member1700#aol.com; PParvin#aol.com; RayHanania@aol.com; RobertNik#aol.com; Shaksway@aol.com; Barthaman
Subject: Re: Baha'i Schools of Thought
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990227232123.15440.00001976@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>I think that doctrinal unity means that we accept the essentials (whatever
they
>are <g>). However, I have also observed a tendency of people to simply echo
>each other, which strikes me as a lack of critical thought.
You're obviously regularly exploiting this pronounced pattern
of the fundamentalist lackies on AOL.... You know you can
count on them to chime in when you need them to shore up
your deceitful attacks that pretend to be supporting the TOS
rules.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Open plea to Fred
Well, Paul, I know you mean well, and I respect your point
of view. Yes, we have disagreed in the past and yes you
have been candid. You're entitled to your opinions.
While thanking you for your many contributions that helped
create talk.religion.bahai, we'll have to agree to disagree,
as they say....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
K. Paul Johnson wrote in message <36dac2f3.0@vlinsvr>...
>Dear Fred,
>
>Since I'm being accused of unfairness for criticizing Saman for
>being consistently aggressive in tone (which he's since stopped),
>but allegedly ignoring your level of aggression (although you
>know I've commented negatively on it several times) I want to
>make something perfectly clear. While I think you are on the
>right side of the issues, your demeanor is a serious detriment
>to the message you are trying to convey. You come across as if
>your outrage valve has been stuck in the fully open position for
>a very long time. Communicating in a nonstop tone of tirade,
>personal denunciation, ranting, etc. makes people take you a lot
>less seriously than if you said the same things differently. You
>can see that in the case of others; can't you see it in your own?
>You are hurting the cause you profess to serve.
>
>If being around Baha'is in cyberspace really makes you this stressed out,
>manically aggressive, whatever it is, and you can't change that,
>it would be best to avoid them. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is
>worth spending a large portion of your life in a state of
>hyperarousal like this. Not only is it bad for one's mental
>health, it is very dangerous physically.
>
>Please calm down, for your own sake and for the cause of open
>exploration of the merits and demerits of the Baha'i religion and
>administration. Shouting does no one any good.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Paul
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Vinson Jamir wrote in message <36DB5708.437E577E@bellsouth.net>...
>Dear Milissa,
> Seems to me that Fred refers to behaviors of which he disapproves
rather than
>nationalities and races. I have yet to see any critical comments about
Iranian
>culture, language, and history emanating from Fred. He simply
disapproves of
>the behavior of some Iranians within the organization of the Baha'i Faith.
I
>would hope the term "Iranian bashing" would imply something more than such
limited
>criticisms.
Thank you for your more nuanced understanding of
what I'm saying. It is the "behavior of some Iranians"
within the Bahai Faith that I disapprove of and have
always said so. There are exceptions. The general
tendency, though, is not pleasant to watch nor
experience, and quite distructive to the Bahai Faith....
> To be a qualified "basher" of any particular nationality or ethnicity,
it
>should be required that the alleged bashing involve denigration of the
entire
>ethnicity as such, not merely that some of its members exhibit certain
behaviors
>within one particular organized religious movement. Consider, for example,
how
>many times we hear about Italian crime families. Imagine someone being
accused of
>racism and prejudice for merely mentioning the existence of Italian crime
>families! It is behavior we hear about from Fred, repeatedly, but not
>condemnation of entire nationalities as such.
> I'll wager there are certain aspects of Iranian culture and society
Fred
Quite deeply, actually.... I've spent considerable parts of my
adult life studying the Bahai Writings and the classical Iranian
writers. If I had no respect for Iranians per se, I would certainly
not have bothered. The accusation of racism against me is but
merely another form of the Bahai Technique, in my opinion....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>really likes.
>
>vinson
>
>
>Milissa Boyer Kafes wrote:
>
>> Hi Frederick--
>>
>> you wrote:
>> (snip)
>>
>> > The AO has lots of hack Iranian "attorneys" who have no
>> > respect for legal and political system. I would find it most
>> > eloquently amusing for the likes of Maneck, Foster, Towfiq,
>> > Hyman, and such other fanatics to attempt to redeem their
>> > "good" names in court. I doubt any jury of 12 would look at
>> > the evidence on www.dejanews.com or my archives and
>> > rule in their favor....
>>
>> PLEASE Frederick, stop with the Iranian bashing! I know so many Iranians
(both
>> Baha'i and non-Baha'i)who are so cool.
>>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Draper (was: "every planet hath its creatures.")
I would be quite interested in reading Draper's book as
well. I have looked for it in the past but was unable at the
time to find a copy of it. It should be fascinating reading
as a crucial text influencing Abdu-l'Baha's intellectual development.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
jrcole@umich.edu wrote in message <7bfu6b$145$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Yeah, we have a copy of the 1873? edition here at U-M. I'm going to get it
>out and have it photocopied (that would be more like $20!) I have a
scanner
>with an Automatic Document Feed, so I can just put it right through.
Anybody
>who does any serious scanning should have an ADF. They aren't expensive
any
>more.
>
>cheers Juan
>
>
>
>Juan Cole, History, U of Michigan
>http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai.htm
>Buy *Modernity and the Millennium: The Genesis of the Baha'i Faith* at:
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0231110812/002-4036721-8058448
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 6:35 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Insult
This person is insulting me by referring to me and
my ideas and posts as "bizarre" and in a derogatory
fashion.
Subject: Re: Bahai Censorship Folder
Date: 3/2/1999 5:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:WScott1995">WScott1995</A>
Message-id: <19990302170211.29244.00002443@ng31.aol.com>
Susan,
Fred said: >>>Do you support the terrorist tactics of Bahai fundamentalism?<<<
You said: >>>Did you see this? <<<
Nope, not until you posted it. I don't read Fred's posts usually, especially
when he posts ten at a time. They are too bizarre and life is too short. :)
>>>Now we know why Fred posts our private correspondence. He's terrorized by
us!<<<<
LOL! Yes, we're pretty terrible, everyone knows that! ;) <g>
_____________________________
Love and peace, Wendy--------<-@
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
The illustrious Bahai Forum Leader on AOL Mark Foster commenting
on the request for a Folder titled Bahai Censorship:
>>Several people said that they wanted it. So, I thought that we could give
it
>>a try. If problems result because of it, it can always be removed later.
fglaysher writes:
>So is this an example of Bahai love and tolerance? Here we appear to have
the
>real motives of what appears to be the Forum Censor, not Leader....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: Love bombing
Dale Grider wrote in message <36DC7ABF.17E4AAC7@bellsouth.net>...
The problem of sin
>and its eternal consequences is thus swept under the spiritual carpet.
As a Bahai, I couldn't agree more.... Many of my fellow
Bahais live in a dreamy little state of mind that relegates
the dark realities of man's human nature to non-existence.
However, I don't believe the Bahai Writings neglect the
reality of sin and evil....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 6:45 AM
To: help@onelist.com
Subject: false subscriptions to onelist.com
This morning I found 475 messages in my inbox
mainly from several onelist.com maling lists. I
realize you have policies against this and don't
blame your service. I would appreciate your help
in unsubscribing my email from all of your lists or
determining what false email I've been entered as
or whatever you need to do to stop the bombardment.
I've included three sample headers and messages.
Thanks.
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
Someone has subscribed me to
chatover21@onelist.com
111-homeworkers@onelist.com
a1opportunities@onelist.com
fortune@onelist.com
pchelp@onelist.com
ssbdfreeads-owner@onelist.com
40PlusSingles@onelist.com
pcworks@MailingList.net
From: Shannon Taylor <taylor@netpathway.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: chatover21@onelist.com
To: Chat_Over <chatover21@onelist.com>
Subject: [chatover21] Still A Little Girl
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:02:14 -0500
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From: Shannon Taylor <taylor@netpathway.com>
Sarah I love the poems you sent ..here is one you may like...
The troubles outside seem so far away.
The fighting of wars, making a world decay.
But here in my private little world,
I feel safe and secure, like a little girl.
But in my private retreat it's great.
So different from the world outside, a world full of hate.
I find only peace and love to surround me here.
The feeling of goodness like God is near.
So let me be a little girl so small,
Then I won't have to worry at all.
I'll stay here where I'm safe from the world.
I'll face tomorrow when I'm not a little girl.
I'll settle down with a day dream or two,
After the work is all done and the house is all clean.
Feeling like a little girl, that is hiding from time,
Knowing that I'm grown up in body and mind.
But WAIT, I can't give up my private little world.
Maybe I'll just give up being a little girl.
Life is hard when you are a grown up, it's so much colder.
Oh well, I'll worry about it tomorrow...when I'm older.
© Shannon Taylor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: "Jeff Wilhelmi" <jwilh007@prairie.lakes.com> Save Address Block
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Reply-To: 40PlusSingles@onelist.com
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Subject: [40PlusSingles] Re: Oh, Yeah....
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:17:15 -0600
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From: "Jeff Wilhelmi" <jwilh007@prairie.lakes.com>
Complex sounds more like duplex. But who loves ya baby??? Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Bluespearl@aol.com <Bluespearl@aol.com>
To: 40PlusSingles@onelist.com <40PlusSingles@onelist.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 2:27 PM
Subject: [40PlusSingles] Re: Oh, Yeah....
>From: Bluespearl@aol.com
>
><< What is it, I send in my pic, next we go from # 1 to # 5, people on list
> leave. Is it me or
> just my damn complex again???? Jeff from Minnesota >>
>
>Ha Ha Jeff! I thought I was the one with the inferiority complex....
>
>Abby
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://www.onelist.com
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From: "Tim Klymkow" <klymkow@a-znet.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: pcworks@MailingList.net
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Subject: Re: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98
cd.
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:40:58 -0500
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Gary,
The only method that works is to rename (or mark as hidden, or delete) all
instances of WIN.COM on your hard drives, and then run setup from the DOS
prompt.
Info courtesy of Sean Erwins's Windows 98 FAQ at
http://www.listmaker.net/win98/index.html#upgrade .
Hope this helps!
Tim Klymkow
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <ggshaw@uq.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 4:55 AM
Subject: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98 cd.
>Problem: Win95b installed. Want to
>upgrade to Win98. I only have Win98 OEM
>CD. I get the following message after
>Win98 has copied temp files to begin
>install.
>"Your computer has an operating system
>installed, which cannot be upgraded by
>this version.
>
>"error SUO168"
>
<snip>
============= PCWorks Mailing List ===============
Visit Our Random "Member HomePage of the Week":
Shelley Gaffney's "Shelley's Money Making Opportunities"
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/9790/
PCWorks WebPage http://www.telesouth1.com/~pcworks
==============================================
----------
From: Fglaysher@aol.com[SMTP:Fglaysher@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 10:09 AM
To: TOSGeneral@aol.com
Cc: TOSBoards1@aol.com; fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: TOS Bahai Forums/Message Boards/For Non-Bahais
This person is also intimating that I'm a covenant breaker
and therefore a heretic. As a Bahai in good standing for
more than 23 years, I find this insulting and request that
you place a TOS on his account.
Subject: Re: PS: Fred on being a Bahá'í
Date: 3/3/1999 3:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Bennachti">Bennachti</A>
Message-id: <19990303152323.15538.00002757@ng96.aol.com>
<< That someone professing to be a Bahá'í would create a link to this site on
his own web site doesn't speak well for that person's profession of devotion
to the Cause of Bahá'u'lláh. >>
Roy,
Of course there is a big difference between being a Baha'i, and being "a
member of the Baha'i Faith". The person who you quoted just said he is "a
member". 'Abdu'l-Baha was clear about what the qualities of a true Baha'i
are.
True Baha'is believe in peace and unity, love, harmony, friendliness and
fellowship with their fellow believers and humankind in general. They also
engage themselves in service to humankind. The absence of those qualities
shows a lack of Baha'i spirit, which is central to our Faith.
No matter how much some people offer their love and friendship, some others
insist on eyeing it with suspicion and hatred. That is not the Baha'i way.
So be it. To them their religion, and to us, our religion.
Zaynab
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/rbcfbenna/aolchats.html">AOL Bahá'í Chats
</A>
A website with resources for
learning about the Bahá'í Faith
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/bennachti/bahai.htm">Camphor Fountain</A>
Bahá'í Faith Information
For Seekers of Truth
And Students of Life
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:28 AM
To: abuse@usa.net
Subject: listserv spam from testcase2@usa.net
Dear abuse@usa.net
Someone has been using an account at testcase2@usa.net
for nearly a month now to bombard my fglaysher@hotmail.com
account with false subscriptions to listservs. Two listserv
adminstrators at Indiana.edu have helped a lot to figure out
where it's coming from and I include their messages below
along with the header and message of one piece of mailing
showing testcase2@usa.net in the FROM.
If you could turn off that account completely it would really help.
I also ask you to identify to me who the person is behind the spam
so that I might be able to do something about it. They've begun
a second wave of attacks just yesterday and today from lists
at www.onelist.com whom I've notified but seem to still be
passing many of the messages, though not all, through the
testcase2@usa.net address. The last message here shows
that address again.
I had 475 messages in my inbox this morning most from
this account testcase2@usa.net
Thanks in advance for anything you can do to stop
this.
Desperately in need of your help,
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: LISTSERV Administrator <lstadmin@indiana.edu>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>; stephenl@indiana.edu
<stephenl@indiana.edu>
Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: false listserv subscription
>Frederick and Larry,
>
>Do you anything about the subscription testcase2@usa.net? If I'm
>reading the headers right it looks like the message sent to Frederick
>came from that address.
>
>Larry -- if you want to test this you could set testcase2 to nomail and
>we could see if that stops the flow of mail to Frederick.
>
>Peg Bassett
>UITS Messaging Team
>
>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
>> Sorry it's taken me a week or so to reply. I'm still receiving
>> all the messages posted to your listservs. I'm going to try
>> to attach them and insert them in here to give you the
>> complete headers in one way or another.
>>
>> I really appreciate your help. My account is completely
>> overwhelmed by all this junk mail and takes several
>> minutes to download the few legitimate messages.
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher
>> fglaysher@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> >From testcase2@USA.NET Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: from [204.68.24.139] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id
>> MHotMailB89ACFE724011D101708CCC44188B9B990; Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: (qmail 18627 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 12:28:53 -0000
>> Received: from listserv.indiana.edu [129.79.5.189] by mx02 via mtad (2.6)
>> with ESMTP id 831DBVmoK0146M02; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:36 GMT
>> Received: from piano (129.79.5.189) by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
>> Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F38FDCE0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
>> Feb 1999 7:14:14 -0500
>> Received: from LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU by LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
(LISTSERV-TCP/IP
>> release 1.8c) with spool id 17591351 for
>> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
07:14:12
>> -0500
>> Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
Windows
>> NT
>> v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F2CC3EC0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
Feb
>> 1999 7:14:12 -0500
>> Received: from BGeoT@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ODDLa24348
>> for
>> <deep-south-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
>> 07:14:08
>> -0500 (EST)
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205
>> Message-ID: <7f98222.36d14a10@aol.com>
>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:14:08 EST
>> Reply-To: BGeoT@AOL.COM
>> Sender: "A discussion list for genealogy in AL, GA, FL and MS"
>> <DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
>> From: George Turnipseed <BGeoT@AOL.COM>
>> Subject: [D-S] JOHNSTON&CALDWELL-HancockCoMS-1800s
>> To: DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>>
>> I am searching for info, ancestors of James Johnston born c1810 in NC,
>> married Eleonore ___ c1830 Hancock Co MS. Their son, George W Johnston
>> born 1841 married Victoria V Caldwell.
>> Please contact by e-mail: BGeoT@aol.com
>> George Turnipseed
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> List problems?
>> Check
>> your WELCOME message FIRST
>> http://php.indiana.edu/~stephenl/problems.htm SECOND
>> then contact stephenL@indiana.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>
>> To: Stephens, Larry V <stephenl@indiana.edu>; 'Frederick Glaysher'
>> <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; 'lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu'
>> <lstadmin@othello.ucs.indiana.edu>
>> Cc: 'help@hotmail.com' <help@hotmail.com>; 'support@hotmail.com'
>> <support@hotmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 12:49 PM
>> Subject: RE: false listserv subscription
>>
>>
>> >I've searched back through all of the LISTSERV log files for February I
did
>> >not find a subscription request from Mr. Glaysher for the
>> Deep-South-Roots-L
>> >list. I also did not find any indication that mail to this list was
>> >distributed to
>> >the address fglaysher@hotmail.com.
>> >
>> >Mr. Glaysher -- are you still receiving list mail from our server? If
yes,
>> >could
>> >you please forward a copy of a recent message, with full headers to me?
>> >
>> >
>> >Peggy Bassett
>> >University Information Technology Services
>> >Indiana University, Bloomington
>> >bassett@indiana.edu
>> >>
>> >> owner-java-com@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >> Java-COM@DISCUSS.MICROSOFT.COM
>> >>
>> >> LINGUIST@LINGUIST.LDC.UPENN.EDU
>> >> LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> linguist@linguistlist.org
>> >>
>> >> PENNSYLVANIA-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >> owner-pennsylvania-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu
>> >> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >>
>> >> MTG-STRATEGY-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>> >> PLI-Y2KLAW@PLI.EDU
>> >> owner-pli-y2klaw@pli.edu
>>
>>
>
>
From: "Tim Klymkow" <klymkow@a-znet.com> Save Address Block Sender
Reply-To: pcworks@MailingList.net
To: <pcworks@MailingList.net>
Subject: Re: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98
cd.
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:40:58 -0500
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Gary,
The only method that works is to rename (or mark as hidden, or delete) all
instances of WIN.COM on your hard drives, and then run setup from the DOS
prompt.
Info courtesy of Sean Erwins's Windows 98 FAQ at
http://www.listmaker.net/win98/index.html#upgrade .
Hope this helps!
Tim Klymkow
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <ggshaw@uq.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 4:55 AM
Subject: PCWorks: Error SU0168 uprgrade win95 to win98 with oem win98 cd.
>Problem: Win95b installed. Want to
>upgrade to Win98. I only have Win98 OEM
>CD. I get the following message after
>Win98 has copied temp files to begin
>install.
>"Your computer has an operating system
>installed, which cannot be upgraded by
>this version.
>
>"error SUO168"
>
<snip>
============= PCWorks Mailing List ===============
Visit Our Random "Member HomePage of the Week":
Shelley Gaffney's "Shelley's Money Making Opportunities"
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/9790/
PCWorks WebPage http://www.telesouth1.com/~pcworks
==============================================
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:34 AM
Subject: Technique Bahai
During the last year and a half, a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
Juan Cole wrote, February 23, 1999:
"There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear
the
sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to
being
"Baha'i" at all)."
"Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear
their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from
theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'is
or when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith."
"The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to
a
heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall
silent."
"With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the
faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note
that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy,
of
"claiming authority," of out and out lying (though that was retracted,
twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,'
and
even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by
*Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them."
"This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all
the
talk about the need for harmony, for returning poison with honey, for a
sin-covering eye, is just *talk* among right wing Baha'is. No one fights
dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot
refute."
"Paul Johnson has seen all these things, as well, for the past five years.
He
can explain it to you."
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:37 AM
Subject: Maneck's Technique
Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
"It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is reading
Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."
"I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of filled with
hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just have
shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself "warmest" and
slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what she is
about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"
Frederick Glaysher, February 15, 1999:
"Ms. Maneck's approach appears to me to be always to
shunt the discussion off or back to who said what where when
why how and so on.... The farther back in time the better, since
the person's memory, being human, is bound to be unable to
keep up or to have stocked the evidence needed on his or her
hard drive or find it on dejanews.com. And it then allows her
to claim pretty much anything she wants to while seeming to
have discredited her opponent. Further, she relies on the
tactics of demagoguery knowing they usually prevail and will be
supported by other fundamentalist Bahais. By shrieking
"slander" and referring to others' opinions as "garbage," she is
able to create an emotional atmosphere that essentially negates
whatever the topic or content might be and that allows her to
appear to win what is often a narrowly legalistic point or
interpretation."
"All of this is done, of course, in conjunction with her employing
the more common Bahai techniques of intimidation and
psychological demonization and terrorism."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:38 AM
Subject: FAQ - arb & trb - history
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for
Alt.Religion.Bahai, Talk.Religion.Bahai
March 3, 1999
This FAQ will be reposted approximately every two weeks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People with only web access might want to use www.dejanews.com
www.reference.com or www.newsguy.com They all offer reading and
posting capabilities for people who can't directly access
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai and filter out spam.
Alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai are available on
America Online (AOL) Keyword, Newsgroups, then search for
alt.religion.bahai or talk.religion.bahai
If your ISP does not offer talk.religion.bahai, follow this
news.groupie advice: "If your ISP doesn't have the group shortly,
I suggest that you ask the newsmaster there to add it (Try
news@isp.net, or newsmaster@isp.net) Ask politely. Include
the msg ID of the results posting, and of the newgroup msg."
Dave Cornejo's RESULT posting:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=431106082&CONTEXT=918305125.781648012&hi
tnum=0
David Lawrence's newgroup msg creating talk.religion.bahai:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434026333&CONTEXT=918304600.713490686&hi
tnum=3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Not all people agree on the interpretations given below.
Question #1 "Why create arb or t.r.b.?"
ANSWER #1: Because many people believe they experienced or
are continuing to experience censorship when attempting to post to
soc.religion.bahai. See the quotations from Abdu'l-Baha:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #2: Because the Bahai writings support free speech and
religious conscience.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
ANSWER #3: [fill in the blank according to your own opinion.]
Question #2: "Why do the srb moderators oppose trb?"
ANSWER: Perhaps they'll supply an answer to place here.
(Two years later their NO votes are their only answer.)
Question #3: "Are Bahais opposed to freedom of speech and
conscience?"
ANSWER: Despite glowing words of love and support for
other people's opinions, despite the Universal House of Justice
stating at least publicly it is not opposed to an unmoderated forum,
the record of actual behavior by Bahais and on soc.religion.bahai
and the experience of many Bahais and people who have left the
Bahai Faith give serious reason for concern.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chronology of major events: talk.religion.bahai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 17, 1997: The 1st proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted to news.announce.newgroups.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRFD.htm
Early March 1997: Mark Towfiq, chairman of the BCCA, the
Bahai Computer and Communication Association, posts to
three Bahai-only mailing lists a call for Bahais to vote NO
against talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Towfiq.htm
March 1997: soc.religion.bahai bans all discussion of
talk.religion.bahai from its newsgroup. This ban is still in
effect more than a year and a half later.
March 31, 1997: The 1st proposal was defeated 157 YES to
691 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/1stRESULT.htm
April 3, 1997: Jonathan Grobe, a non-Bahai, creates
alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/arb.htm
October 14, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message stating it has no objection to unmoderated
newsgroups:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ1.htm
November 1997: At a time when discussion was highly
favorable in support of talk.religion.bahai, the BCCA deprives
Frederick Glaysher of access to the private Bahai-only mailing
list bahai-discuss and all of its other lists, inflaming Bahai
passions against trb. See bahai-discuss archived files and
correspondence between Frederick Glaysher and the BCCA
committee:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
December 19, 1997: The Universal House of Justice releases
a message that suggests it does not understand the nature of
Usenet interest polling:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJ2.htm
January 12, 1998: The 2nd proposal for talk.religion.bahai was
submitted.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRFD.htm
February 22, 1998: The 2nd proposal was defeated 109 YES
to 65 NO.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/2ndRESULT.htm
May 25, 1998: srb bans all messages from Frederick Glaysher
that contain his signature file:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb23.htm
September 9,1998: America Online (AOL) places a
Bahai-inspired TOS against Frederick Glaysher; AOL
removes the TOS after considering both sides of the
issue, i.e., Bahai messages attacking and threatening
him and the experience of others:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
September 14, 1998: soc.religion.bahai extends its ban on
Frederick Glaysher's signature file to include all signature
files and URLs from all posters, allowing only email addresses
and the name of the poster:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srbban.htm
October 14, 1998: Soc.religion.bahai moderator Bill Hyman
backbites and casts aspersions on proponent Ron House
and attempts to undermine the new support for the
"neutral" RFD:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb67.htm
December 3, 1998: The Call For Votes (CFV) was posted
to news.announce.newgroups and news.groups for the
3rd interest poll for talk.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRFD.htm
December 7, 1998: Bahai scholar Susan Maneck begins
her NO vote campaign on AOL and alt.religion.bahai.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
January 10, 1999:
Talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/3rdRESULT.htm
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For past discussion of censorship on soc.religion.bahai and
other issues, including censorship within the Bahai community,
see the website The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This document at http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/FAQ.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:40 AM
Subject: brief - srb - quotes
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:41 AM
Subject: 7-24-98 Universal House of Justice
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: UHJ <secretariat@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <letters@nytimes.com>;
bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai-faith@makelist.com>
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
July 24,1998
Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President
Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran
would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international
community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation
of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
always courting the President and other members of the government,
has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as
I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals,
Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
the Bahai community and administration.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom
of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
Bahai-Discuss Archives.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has
approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for
more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
talk.religion.bahai.
The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if
you will, of Bahai censorship?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: False TOSs on AOL - Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster
Vinson Jamir wrote in message <36DE126C.100D27E2@bellsouth.net>...
He loves
>Persian literature and maybe even certain Persian dishes,
"Love" is too unqualified of a word. While I respect Rumi and other
classical Iranian poets, they fail, as Yeats once said of an
idealistic poet, to have a Vision of Evil.... I was especially struck
by this once reading the Mathnawi and simply put it aside and
have never had any desire to pick it up again. Much Bahai
"literature" strikes me the same way....
Koreshe bademjan.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 9:07 AM
To: abuse@mindspring.net
Subject: mindspring spammer
Please help stop the person who is spamming me with
false listserv subscriptions. They may be originating
from mindspring.com or usa.net. My note to usa.net
should explain the situation to you. The last message
here contains reference to mindspring.com:
Thank you.
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
Dear abuse@usa.net
Someone has been using an account at testcase2@usa.net
for nearly a month now to bombard my fglaysher@hotmail.com
account with false subscriptions to listservs. Two listserv
adminstrators at Indiana.edu have helped a lot to figure out
where it's coming from and I include their messages below
along with the header and message of one piece of mailing
showing testcase2@usa.net in the FROM.
If you could turn off that account completely it would really help.
I also ask you to identify to me who the person is behind the spam
so that I might be able to do something about it. They've begun
a second wave of attacks just yesterday and today from lists
at www.onelist.com whom I've notified but seem to still be
passing many of the messages, though not all, through the
testcase2@usa.net address. The last message here shows
that address again.
I had 475 messages in my inbox this morning most from
this account testcase2@usa.net
Thanks in advance for anything you can do to stop
this.
Desperately in need of your help,
Frederick Glaysher
fglaysher@hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: LISTSERV Administrator <lstadmin@indiana.edu>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: List Administrator <list-admin@indiana.edu>; stephenl@indiana.edu
<stephenl@indiana.edu>
Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: false listserv subscription
>Frederick and Larry,
>
>Do you anything about the subscription testcase2@usa.net? If I'm
>reading the headers right it looks like the message sent to Frederick
>came from that address.
>
>Larry -- if you want to test this you could set testcase2 to nomail and
>we could see if that stops the flow of mail to Frederick.
>
>Peg Bassett
>UITS Messaging Team
>
>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
>> Sorry it's taken me a week or so to reply. I'm still receiving
>> all the messages posted to your listservs. I'm going to try
>> to attach them and insert them in here to give you the
>> complete headers in one way or another.
>>
>> I really appreciate your help. My account is completely
>> overwhelmed by all this junk mail and takes several
>> minutes to download the few legitimate messages.
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher
>> fglaysher@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> >From testcase2@USA.NET Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: from [204.68.24.139] by hotmail.com (1.1) with SMTP id
>> MHotMailB89ACFE724011D101708CCC44188B9B990; Mon Feb 22 08:25:12 1999
>> Received: (qmail 18627 invoked by uid 0); 22 Feb 1999 12:28:53 -0000
>> Received: from listserv.indiana.edu [129.79.5.189] by mx02 via mtad (2.6)
>> with ESMTP id 831DBVmoK0146M02; Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:36 GMT
>> Received: from piano (129.79.5.189) by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
>> Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F38FDCE0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
>> Feb 1999 7:14:14 -0500
>> Received: from LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU by LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
(LISTSERV-TCP/IP
>> release 1.8c) with spool id 17591351 for
>> DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
07:14:12
>> -0500
>> Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com by listserv.indiana.edu (LSMTP for
Windows
>> NT
>> v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.F2CC3EC0@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22
Feb
>> 1999 7:14:12 -0500
>> Received: from BGeoT@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id ODDLa24348
>> for
>> <deep-south-roots-l@listserv.indiana.edu>; Mon, 22 Feb 1999
>> 07:14:08
>> -0500 (EST)
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205
>> Message-ID: <7f98222.36d14a10@aol.com>
>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:14:08 EST
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