From: Ron House[SMTP:house@usq.edu.au]
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 1999 11:51 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Cc: Dave Cornejo; Frank Baker; Fran Baker; John Walker
Subject: Re: Fw: Automatic reply to your test message.
Frederick Glaysher wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I've hesitated to bring this message that was falsely
> posted using my name and email address to your attention.
> I've decided I should let you know about it in case you've heard of
> it or it affects the poll in some way I don't realize.
I had a reply from a uni in England over what seems to be an identical
message with my address as false author.
--
Ron House house@usq.edu.au
You can only be right if you have the courage to be wrong.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: Censorship on soc.religion.bahai
Kavosh Soltani wrote in message <76k41b$icq$13@remarQ.com>...
>rlittle33@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
><74p4oh$ps6$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
rlittle wrote:
>>Firstly, moderators are "hired" (actually, they do this
>>on their own time, using their own personal computers for
>>no material compensation) to enforce a charter which was
>>voted into existence through a democratic election.
The present "charter" was never voted on. It was imposed
during the fall of 1996 by the "moderators" emphasizing in
a new and major way covenant breaking and the "moderators"
right to suppress it.
Most people on Usenet as well as most Bahais do not realize this
important fact about soc.religion.bahai's "charter."
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 8:59 AM
Subject: Demagoguery - The Bahai Technique
During the last year and a half, a number of observers have noted
several common methods many Bahais use to avoid various issues
or discredit people who hold opinions other than their own:
Frederick Glaysher, May 12, 1992:
"The Baha'i Faith has become very oppressive and manipulative of
the individual. That to me is merely a statement of fact, as I
have experienced it, for nearly sixteen years now [over 22]. The usual
stratagem in dealing with anyone who would express his conscience
in good faith is to pretend the Cause is above any kind of
criticism whatsoever while intimating that anyone who would speak
honestly must have something wrong with him, i.e., his spiritual
life isn't what it should be, he doesn't understand the nature of
unity, or he's accused of trying to obtain power for himself,
which at times seems merely a calculated way of discrediting the
person, and so on. Another common strategy used to acquire
control over the individual is to humor the person by letting him
pour himself out, etc., and then self-righteously giving him the
Truth."
Ron House, November 14, 1997:
"I know what you mean. I've found over the years that
there is a technique used by traditional Baha'is and
others to squash dissension: harry the dissenter so
much he says something intemperate, then point out
how 'loving' and 'compassionate' they are and how
nasty the dissenter is. The trouble is that this
technique works, so I've been making a conscious
effort not to fall for it. Also, when they get the
dissenter discouraged and miserable enough, he
invariably makes a slip-up sooner or later that they
can REALLY let loose the venom over. IMHO, they did
this to you when you misread Sharon's intentions.
At any other time, they would overlook faults, as
Baha'u'llah says, but when they're in this mode
they go for the jugular. Very sad."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/House2.htm
Frederick Glaysher, June 1998:
"Some of the most striking methods demonstrated repeatedly by
many Bahais during the last year and a half of discussion about
an unmoderated newsgroup is their refusal to listen and respond to
the criticisms of those who are in favor of talk.religion.bahai,
ignoring their concerns, never responding analytically to their
messages and reasoning and logic and evidence, attacking them
through character assassination and ad hominem, ganging up
on individuals, and "circling the wagons" around every action
of the srb moderators or others who are opposed to
talk.religion.bahai."
"More than twenty different people on my web site have posted messages
explaining their experience with srb censorship yet many srb Bahais
NEVER address their concerns. Ignoring such charges will not make
them go away. NO ONE has to "try" to link the trb interest poll with
censorship on srb; the moderators themselves have done that by
suppressing droves of people for years. There are many people who
believe such suppression is part and parcel of the Bahai
community as it exists today. A YES vote need not necessarily
support such a belief. There are other reasons Bahais might vote
YES."
Fran Baker, May 1998:
"Just have to say that in my experience this is a common
technique of manipulative people in general; it is especially
effective with thoughtful people who are willing to see both
sides of things, i.e., their own fault. I consider this brow-beating
technique to be a form of abuse. The only way to deal with it is
to call them on it every time and to refuse to let yourself be beat
up, i.e., not to do your part of the "tango." This can be very hard
to do, but it works.You can break this pattern in a personal
relationship. I don't know whether it's possible when a group
acts this way. Very scary."
Dr. Juan Cole, June 12, 1998:
"Let me ask you why in the world you think that I would risk my professional
reputation by publicly stating falsehoods? ...The very technique of the
more glaze-eyed among these people is to unbearably bully a Baha'i whom
they don't like, use unjustified threats of declaring him or her a CB to
silence the individual, and if the person will not be silenced, then to
depend upon the gullibility of the Baha'is in refusing to listen to any
victim's story because, of course, the Baha'i institutions are infallible
and divinely guided and could never do anything wrong. It is a perfect
racket."
"Of course, this technique of making liberals go away has been enormously
successful, and ex-Baha'i liberals have no credibility with the remaining
Baha'is nor do most of them have any energy to continue to make a case,
either to the Baha'is or the outside world, for the incredible abuses that
go on inside this organization ostensibly committed to tolerance!"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Cole10.htm
K. Paul Johnson, September 15, 1998:
"If that principle [people are innocent until proven guilty]
were followed by Baha'i administration and individuals in
their condemnations of their fellow believers, I
would have very little to complain about regarding Baha'i
affairs. But character assassination by innuendo is the
preferred way of dealing with anything remotely resembling
dissidence. Seems like that's exactly what you're doing to Juan
Cole in your message. Saying I don't want to know what you've
"got" on him, thus attacking me but insinuating you have some
awful proof of unspecified guilt on his part. If that's not
character assassination by innuendo, what is?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson18.htm
K. Paul Johnson, December 30, 1998:
"It seems to me that part of what Fred calls "the Baha'i
technique" is in fact far broader. It's the technique of all
defenders of some religious orthodoxy or another in response to
criticism of their beliefs or organization. And you're engaging
in it here. Some principles by which it can be discerned:
1. Show scornful contempt for all criticisms, and the individuals
making them. This has the advantage of furthering
group solidarity and encouraging believers to regard criticism as
contemptible. It also tells them "This will happen to you, too,
if you step out of line." Unfortunately, it has the
disadvantage of saying to observers, "We true believers are a
bunch of hostile, sarcastic nasties who don't care at all what
people in the outside world think of us, since we're too busy
bashing critics to worry about the impression our tone or
attitude makes." (See the Eckists or Scientologists or
fundamentalist Christians on Usenet for real virtuosity in
this regard.)
2. Personalize, personalize, personalize. If you can
relentlessly focus attention on the individual(s) raising
difficult issues, you just might keep yourself and others
from facing the issues themselves. Not facing the crucial issues
is of utmost priority.
3. Polarize at all possible opportunities. Never give an inch.
Don't acknowledge even a single point that an "enemy" makes, or
modify your vigilant tone for an instant. Prove that you're a
"spiritual warrior" for the "true faith." Kindness is weakness,
forbearance is never appropriate when God's on your side."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson22.htm
Gibro28W, October 12, 1998:
"In summary, the biggest problem, as I see it,
is that most Baha'is don't take criticism seriously--they tune it out as
"negative" or "harmful to spiritual growth." This selfish
attitude is very stupid. First of all, Baha'is entice people to join them.
When they do, they indoctrinate them until they think like the group. But as
soon as a red flare of doubt goes up in the convert's mind, they're cordoned
off by the group and reminded of their "spiritual" obligations in the name
of Baha'u'llah or the "Covenant." If left unresolved and doubt gives vent to
prolonged criticism, the convert is sent packing or is kicked out. What
we have here is a broken family that had failed to truly listen to the needs
of its members in the first place.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb73.htm
Barthaman on September 14, 1998:
"Baha'i dissenters, more or less, are wounded souls abandoned
by their fathers,so-to-speak. They have been cast out and
dismissed or shunned without having had a fair hearing. Consider
their pain when the rest of their "family" dismisses them too.
Can you know what it's like to be accused of heresy and shunned
following a sincere intellectual conflict (inspired by doubt)--
after you've sacrificed years in devoted service to your religion?
Can you comprehend their sense of betrayal and injustice? This is
why disillusioned believers leave their religions each year--while
some still hang around, banging on the door now and then, demanding
a refund for their lost youth. In time they will have to move on,
however, writing the Baha'i Faith off as another lesson in fraud.
Mock these people all you want--but for the grace of God, the next
dissenter could be you. Don't be too confident, my friend."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb66.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Cf. K. Paul Johnson's general reflections on coercive techniques
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Johnson21.htm
And LaAeterna's method of silencing opponents
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb65.htm
This document at
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technieque.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 5:38 PM
To: Dave Cornejo
Subject: RESULTS?
Dave,
I've tried not to bother you knowing you had accepted
handling the poll on the condition of extra time. People
are emailing me and wondering what's going on. It
has been ten days now. I'd appreciate your just letting
people know the RESULTS as soon as possible.
Thanks, again, for volunteering and contributing your
time and effort on such a volatile proposal....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Dave Cornejo[SMTP:dave@dogwood.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 5:46 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: RESULTS?
Frederick Glaysher wrote:
> I've tried not to bother you knowing you had accepted
> handling the poll on the condition of extra time. People
> are emailing me and wondering what's going on. It
> has been ten days now. I'd appreciate your just letting
> people know the RESULTS as soon as possible.
>
> Thanks, again, for volunteering and contributing your
> time and effort on such a volatile proposal....
I noted in the CFV that the results would be delayed - I anticipate
that I will have the results tabulated next weekend. The results or
an explanation of whatever actions will be posted then.
--
Dave Cornejo - Dogwood Media, Fremont, California
General Magician & Registered Be Developer
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: Censorship on soc.religion.bahai
Roger Reini wrote in message <3690de57.49706053@news.newsguy.com>...
>There was a note from the moderators which said that they could not
>reject the message, since it did fall within the charter of the
>newsgroup as it was at that time. The charter was revised shortly
>thereafter to prevent CB material from being posted in the future.
>This is a revision that I support.
The "moderators" at soc.religion.bahai are violating other
parts of the "charter" by doing so and transgressing on the
basic covenant they entered into when Usenet permitted
them to form a newsgroup....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 6:16 PM
To: Dave Cornejo
Cc: Ron House; Frank Baker; Fran Baker; John Walker
Subject: Re: RESULTS?
Dave,
I appreciate your letting us know the time frame
you have in mind. I understand you have other
things to do in life, and it was the holidays.
Thanks.
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: RESULTS?
>Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>> I've tried not to bother you knowing you had accepted
>> handling the poll on the condition of extra time. People
>> are emailing me and wondering what's going on. It
>> has been ten days now. I'd appreciate your just letting
>> people know the RESULTS as soon as possible.
>>
>> Thanks, again, for volunteering and contributing your
>> time and effort on such a volatile proposal....
>
>I noted in the CFV that the results would be delayed - I anticipate
>that I will have the results tabulated next weekend. The results or
>an explanation of whatever actions will be posted then.
>
>--
>Dave Cornejo - Dogwood Media, Fremont, California
>General Magician & Registered Be Developer
>
----------
From: Frank Baker[SMTP:fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 1999 7:18 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher; Dave Cornejo
Cc: Ron House; Frank Baker; Fran Baker; John Walker
Subject: Re: RESULTS?
Thanks, Dave, for the status note. And I just want to second
Frederick's comment that we sincerely appreciate your willingness
to accept and follow through on this vote-taking task.
And thanks, Frederick, for checking with Dave.
I'm sure that I speak for all of the proponents in saying that
we look forward to learning the results.
Regards,
-- Frank
At 05:16 PM 1/4/99 -0500, Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>Dave,
>
>I appreciate your letting us know the time frame
>you have in mind. I understand you have other
>things to do in life, and it was the holidays.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Fred
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Date: Monday, January 04, 1999 4:46 PM
>Subject: Re: RESULTS?
>
>
>>Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>>> I've tried not to bother you knowing you had accepted
>>> handling the poll on the condition of extra time. People
>>> are emailing me and wondering what's going on. It
>>> has been ten days now. I'd appreciate your just letting
>>> people know the RESULTS as soon as possible.
>>>
>>> Thanks, again, for volunteering and contributing your
>>> time and effort on such a volatile proposal....
>>
>>I noted in the CFV that the results would be delayed - I anticipate
>>that I will have the results tabulated next weekend. The results or
>>an explanation of whatever actions will be posted then.
>>
>>--
>>Dave Cornejo - Dogwood Media, Fremont, California
>>General Magician & Registered Be Developer
>>
>
>
----------
From: K. Paul Johnson[SMTP:pjohnson@vsla.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 12:45 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: trb etc.
Dear Fred,
Is there anything you can tell me about why the vote should be
taking so long? Seems like there must be some problem with the
vote.
I wrote a comment on Roger R.'s last post, but when I did so as a
followup to him the server rejected it. So I posted again, this
time as a separate post entitled "Baha'i Fear and Loathing."
Could you forward that from trm to arb? I don't have the means
to do so.
Hope all works out well this time. Happy 1999,
Paul
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 7:31 AM
Subject: REVISED - soc.religion.bahai - brief quotations
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Melissa Boyer Kafes:
"For me, I have posted a couple of times on soc.religion.bahai
and have gotten a couple of nasty emails...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb44.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:08 PM
To: K. Paul Johnson
Subject: fw Paul Johnson Re: Censorship on soc.religion.bahai
[Paul Johnson has asked me to forward this message to
alt.religion.bahai. His server's having some kind of trouble
denying him access to the alt.* hierarchy.]
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vlinsvr.vsla.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 10:41 AM
Subject: Baha'i Fear and Loathing
>Roger Reini writes that a 1996 post to soc.religion.bahai was
>"an attack on the Covenant and the institutions of the Baha'i
>Faith," which said "very disturbing things about the Hands of the
>Cause of God that filled me with revulsion." This caused him
>to "immediately see the wisdom behind the direction for Baha'is
>to avoid materials by Covenant breakers." He supports the revision
>in the srb charter allowing censorship of all "Covenant-breaker"
>posts since even two years later "Even thinking about that
>message gives me the creeps!"
>
>Not being privy to the particular message in question, I can
>nevertheless perceive Mr. Reini's attitude and wish to
>comment on it. The post presumably said that the Hands of the
>Cause had acted improperly in not accepting Charles Mason Remey's
>claims. This *in itself* would be perceived by Baha'is as
>"an attack on the Covenant and the institutions of the Baha'i
>Faith." First, some parallels: Protestants reject the papacy,
>saying its authority claims are not legitimate and past popes
>have acted improperly. Should Catholics therefore demand that no
>Protestant be allowed to say this on Christian discussion groups,
>because it's hate-spewing, attacking the Pope, disturbing and
>revolting to believers in his claims? More to the point, Baha'is
>are regarded by Muslims as a minor sect, not a real world
>religion, and one that has no legitimacy and which should be at
>best discouraged and at worst exterminated. Should Muslims be
>able to demand that Baha'is not be allowed to say anything about
>their beliefs on a Muslim newsgroup, because an expression of
>said belief is implicitly an attack on Islam and its
>institutions, and Baha'i beliefs are inherently
>"disturbing" and "revolting?" Ad nauseum.
>
>The way the post was phrased suggested that the "disturbing" and
>"revolting" and "attacking" were *objective* qualities of the
>"Covenant-breaker" post. In fact, they were *subjective* reactions
>of a Baha'i who has been conditioned to be disturbed and revolted
>by any challenge to the authority claims of his religious
>institutions. If such subjective and conditioned reactions are
>to be taken as criteria justifying censorship *by* Baha'is, then
>does Mr. Reini accept that other people's fear/loathing reactions
>should justify censorship *of* Baha'is?
>
>A crucial element of spiritual awakening is liberating oneself
>from the fear-based reactions that have been conditioned by
>religious authorities, and looking directly at challenging issues
>without shivering or trying to silence those who raise them.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:08 PM
Subject: fw Paul Johnson Re: Censorship on soc.religion.bahai
[Paul Johnson has asked me to forward this message to
alt.religion.bahai. His server's having some kind of trouble
denying him access to the alt.* hierarchy.]
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vlinsvr.vsla.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 10:41 AM
Subject: Baha'i Fear and Loathing
>Roger Reini writes that a 1996 post to soc.religion.bahai was
>"an attack on the Covenant and the institutions of the Baha'i
>Faith," which said "very disturbing things about the Hands of the
>Cause of God that filled me with revulsion." This caused him
>to "immediately see the wisdom behind the direction for Baha'is
>to avoid materials by Covenant breakers." He supports the revision
>in the srb charter allowing censorship of all "Covenant-breaker"
>posts since even two years later "Even thinking about that
>message gives me the creeps!"
>
>Not being privy to the particular message in question, I can
>nevertheless perceive Mr. Reini's attitude and wish to
>comment on it. The post presumably said that the Hands of the
>Cause had acted improperly in not accepting Charles Mason Remey's
>claims. This *in itself* would be perceived by Baha'is as
>"an attack on the Covenant and the institutions of the Baha'i
>Faith." First, some parallels: Protestants reject the papacy,
>saying its authority claims are not legitimate and past popes
>have acted improperly. Should Catholics therefore demand that no
>Protestant be allowed to say this on Christian discussion groups,
>because it's hate-spewing, attacking the Pope, disturbing and
>revolting to believers in his claims? More to the point, Baha'is
>are regarded by Muslims as a minor sect, not a real world
>religion, and one that has no legitimacy and which should be at
>best discouraged and at worst exterminated. Should Muslims be
>able to demand that Baha'is not be allowed to say anything about
>their beliefs on a Muslim newsgroup, because an expression of
>said belief is implicitly an attack on Islam and its
>institutions, and Baha'i beliefs are inherently
>"disturbing" and "revolting?" Ad nauseum.
>
>The way the post was phrased suggested that the "disturbing" and
>"revolting" and "attacking" were *objective* qualities of the
>"Covenant-breaker" post. In fact, they were *subjective* reactions
>of a Baha'i who has been conditioned to be disturbed and revolted
>by any challenge to the authority claims of his religious
>institutions. If such subjective and conditioned reactions are
>to be taken as criteria justifying censorship *by* Baha'is, then
>does Mr. Reini accept that other people's fear/loathing reactions
>should justify censorship *of* Baha'is?
>
>A crucial element of spiritual awakening is liberating oneself
>from the fear-based reactions that have been conditioned by
>religious authorities, and looking directly at challenging issues
>without shivering or trying to silence those who raise them.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 2:16 PM
To: K. Paul Johnson
Subject: Re: trb etc.
I don't know what's going on either. I'm worried something
is really up. The votetaker had asked for more than
the standard 5 days after the vote. We all assumed
it was because of the holiday season. He's saying
now he wants through this coming weekend....
I forwarded your message to arb.
I appreciate your words defending me to some extent
lately. Few seem to realize I'm not the monster Bahais
make me out to be....
Happy '99!
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 3:46 AM
Subject: trb etc.
>Dear Fred,
>
>Is there anything you can tell me about why the vote should be
>taking so long? Seems like there must be some problem with the
>vote.
>
>I wrote a comment on Roger R.'s last post, but when I did so as a
>followup to him the server rejected it. So I posted again, this
>time as a separate post entitled "Baha'i Fear and Loathing."
>Could you forward that from trm to arb? I don't have the means
>to do so.
>
>Hope all works out well this time. Happy 1999,
>
>Paul
----------
From: K. Paul Johnson[SMTP:pjohnson@vsla.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 4:29 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: trb etc.
Dear Fred,
Thanks for forwarding the post. It's not that I can't access the
alt. hierarchy; never have been able to access arb from my
server. But in addition, when I tried to answer Roger, I got an
error message saying it was rejected. Otherwise my response
would have gone to arb because it was already in the headers,
even though I can't read it.
Could you also post this (leaving out the above para and this
line):
Having received anonymous abusive email in the past from the UK,
with the same slangy style as shown by today's anonymous Brit, I
was curious about who might be up to this on arb today, and if it might
be the same person who wrote to me a couple of years ago. So I looked
up an author profile for his/her account. Someone at this account has
posted to srb as Rachael, a 28-year-old lifetime Baha'i whose parents
wouldn't celebrate Christmas but who encourages her own
children to do so. But s/he or another also posted from the
same account as "Pete," with a style more in keeping with today's
anonymous offerings on arb-- enthusing about someone calling Tim
"Tiffany."
What I'd like to know is what any Baha'i can possibly be thinking
when s/he posts like this. What impression of the Faith does
s/he imagine is being created before the public? Care to
explain, Pete/Rachael?
----------
From: Milissa Boyer Kafes[SMTP:mbkafes@bestweb.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 6:36 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Context of my quote
Hello everybody--
On numerous occasions Frederick has posted a list of quotes regarding
censorship and SRB. He quotes me:
>>For me, I have posted a couple of
>>times on soc.religion.bahai and have gotten a couple of nasty emails andit
>>just ruins my whole day!
This is an accurate quote. However, I think Frederick is
misunderstanding/misusing the context. He is rightly concerned about
censorship on SRB when posts are rejected. My comment, however, was about
responses I received to posts that *were* put on SRB by the moderators. My
comment, then, was not about censorship, since I did get to say what I
wanted to. Some people did not like what I said and told me so. As far as
I know they were not moderators.
In light of this, I'd appreciate it if Frederick would remove me from this
list of quotes. Thanks.
Peace
Milissa Boyer Kafes
mbkafes@bestweb.net
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 9:37 PM
Subject: fw Paul Johnson 2nd message Re: Censorship on soc.religion.bahai
[Mr. Johnson has also asked me to forward this 2nd message
to alt.religion.bahai since he's receiving some type of error
message that is preventing his crossposting from talk.religion.misc.]
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: trb etc.
>Having received anonymous abusive email in the past from the UK,
>with the same slangy style as shown by today's anonymous Brit, I
>was curious about who might be up to this on arb today, and if it might
>be the same person who wrote to me a couple of years ago. So I looked
>up an author profile for his/her account. Someone at this account has
>posted to srb as Rachael, a 28-year-old lifetime Baha'i whose parents
>wouldn't celebrate Christmas but who encourages her own
>children to do so. But s/he or another also posted from the
>same account as "Pete," with a style more in keeping with today's
>anonymous offerings on arb-- enthusing about someone calling Tim
>"Tiffany."
>
>What I'd like to know is what any Baha'i can possibly be thinking
>when s/he posts like this. What impression of the Faith does
>s/he imagine is being created before the public? Care to
>explain, Pete/Rachael?
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 9:56 PM
To: K. Paul Johnson
Subject: Re: fw Paul Johnson 2nd message Re: Censorship on soc.religion.bahai
"Rachael" and "Pete" have also attacked me numerous times
and I believe their messages may be found somewhere in my
archives.
A Muslim, I believe Kavosh Soltani, remarked recently that
Bahais are posting to alt.religion.bahai using various false
accounts. I've noticed and suspected it myself many times....
I wonder if these "two" also "NeoLuddite":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/hate11.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <76ueoj$4f8@news1.newsguy.com>...
>[Mr. Johnson has also asked me to forward this 2nd message
>to alt.religion.bahai since he's receiving some type of error
>message that is preventing his crossposting from talk.religion.misc.]
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
>To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 3:29 PM
>Subject: Re: trb etc.
>
>>Having received anonymous abusive email in the past from the UK,
>>with the same slangy style as shown by today's anonymous Brit, I
>>was curious about who might be up to this on arb today, and if it might
>>be the same person who wrote to me a couple of years ago. So I looked
>>up an author profile for his/her account. Someone at this account has
>>posted to srb as Rachael, a 28-year-old lifetime Baha'i whose parents
>>wouldn't celebrate Christmas but who encourages her own
>>children to do so. But s/he or another also posted from the
>>same account as "Pete," with a style more in keeping with today's
>>anonymous offerings on arb-- enthusing about someone calling Tim
>>"Tiffany."
>>
>>What I'd like to know is what any Baha'i can possibly be thinking
>>when s/he posts like this. What impression of the Faith does
>>s/he imagine is being created before the public? Care to
>>explain, Pete/Rachael?
>>
>>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: fw Paul Johnson 2nd message Re: Censorship on soc.religion.bahai
"Rachael" and "Pete" have also attacked me numerous times
and I believe their messages may be found somewhere in my
archives.
A Muslim, I believe Kavosh Soltani, remarked recently that
Bahais are posting to alt.religion.bahai using various false
accounts. I've noticed and suspected it myself many times....
I wonder if these "two" also "NeoLuddite":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/hate11.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <76ueoj$4f8@news1.newsguy.com>...
>[Mr. Johnson has also asked me to forward this 2nd message
>to alt.religion.bahai since he's receiving some type of error
>message that is preventing his crossposting from talk.religion.misc.]
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
>To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Date: Tuesday, January 05, 1999 3:29 PM
>Subject: Re: trb etc.
>
>>Having received anonymous abusive email in the past from the UK,
>>with the same slangy style as shown by today's anonymous Brit, I
>>was curious about who might be up to this on arb today, and if it might
>>be the same person who wrote to me a couple of years ago. So I looked
>>up an author profile for his/her account. Someone at this account has
>>posted to srb as Rachael, a 28-year-old lifetime Baha'i whose parents
>>wouldn't celebrate Christmas but who encourages her own
>>children to do so. But s/he or another also posted from the
>>same account as "Pete," with a style more in keeping with today's
>>anonymous offerings on arb-- enthusing about someone calling Tim
>>"Tiffany."
>>
>>What I'd like to know is what any Baha'i can possibly be thinking
>>when s/he posts like this. What impression of the Faith does
>>s/he imagine is being created before the public? Care to
>>explain, Pete/Rachael?
>>
>>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: Context of my quote
Milissa Boyer Kafes wrote in message ...
>In light of this, I'd appreciate it if Frederick would remove me from this
>list of quotes. Thanks.
I apologize for accidentally misrepresenting your views. It was
not my intention. I shall be happy to remove the quotation from
the next posting.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 9:44 AM
Subject: Antinomies - Robert Browning, Dostoevsky
From a May 1992 letter:
I've been reading lately a narrative poem by Robert
Browning, "Bishop Blougram's Apology." I've read it a number of
times over the years, and it's one that I continue to think
about. The character of the bishop is partly based on John Henry
Newman and another contemporary figure in the Roman Catholic
Church, the latter of whom was especially noted for his abuse of
power and position. Over dinner, the bishop justifies his
corruption to a young journalist who has noticed his calculation,
insincerity, and hypocrisy. In much of the poem, Browning is
dealing with the nature of religious doubt. While the bishop is
a hypocrite who embraces Catholicism because it gives him "cabin
comforts" and the "estimation" of the masses, the journalist is
charmingly naive in his insistence that religious faith should be
"absolute." In a marvelous passage Browning recognizes the
complex duality of the human soul:
No, when the fight begins within himself,
A man's worth something. God stoops o'er his head,
Satan looks up between his feet--both tug--
He's left, himself, i' the middle: the soul wakes
And grows. Prolong that battle through his life!
Never leave growing till the life to come!
ll. 690
Putting this truth in a sophist's mouth, Browning probes much
deeper into the struggle for faith than the "pious" usually allow
themselves. To my mind, the health of the spirit requires that
freedom--given by God--to doubt and question and probe every
single dogma of religion in its oppressively organized phase. On
the other hand, Browning's point is partly that doubt itself,
like evil and suffering, is a test of one's belief, for mature
belief can only grow out of the struggle with doubt.
There is something deeply, inescapably, eternally
dialectical in the human being and in the very nature of
existence, the way it develops, evolves, progresses.
Dostoevsky, in his chapter "The Grand Inquisitor," In The
Brothers Karamazov, meditates dialectically on the dilemma of
free will and obedience to religious authority. Christ returns
during the Spanish Inquisition and is imprisoned by the Grand
Inquisitor who accuses Christ of leading men into confusion by
giving them freedom of choice and conscience. The Grand
Inquisitor informs Christ that
We have corrected Your work and have now founded it on
miracle, mystery, and authority. And men rejoice at
being led like cattle again, with the terrible gift of
freedom that brought them so much suffering removed
from them.
The Inquisitor goes on to tell Christ that man's "greatest need
on earth" is "to find someone to worship, someone who can relieve
him of the burden of his conscience, thus enabling him finally to
unite into a harmonious ant-hill where there are no dissenting
voices. . . ." In place of individual responsibility to God, the
Inquisitor promises to free mankind from "the frightening torment
they know today when they have to decide for themselves how to
act." Christ listens to this sophist without uttering a word,
and then, at the end, before being allowed to leave, rises and
kisses the Inquisitor. Ivan, a nihilist, who relates this story,
asserts all too accurately that in the modern world "everything
is permitted." The Grand Inquisitor, grasping for power, a
character to whom Nietzsche must have responded deeply, "doesn't
believe in God." Dostoevsky knew these rich tensions were part
of human nature. At times, the Bahá'í administration grossly
fails to understand that Bahá'u'lláh has also blessed humankind
with this burden of freedom and responsibility.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Ron House[SMTP:house@usq.edu.au]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 11:14 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: RESULTS?
Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> I appreciate your letting us know the time frame
> you have in mind. I understand you have other
> things to do in life, and it was the holidays.
Hi Fred, I must have missed something over my break. What's the latest?
--
Ron House house@usq.edu.au
You can only be right if you have the courage to be wrong.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 1999 9:19 AM
To: Ron House
Subject: Re: RESULTS?
Dave said he'd have to wait until this coming
weekend to finish tabulating the RESULTS.
I cc-ed you on it. I don't why it's taking so long.
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: RESULTS?
>Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> I appreciate your letting us know the time frame
>> you have in mind. I understand you have other
>> things to do in life, and it was the holidays.
>
>Hi Fred, I must have missed something over my break. What's the latest?
>
>--
>Ron House house@usq.edu.au
>
>You can only be right if you have the courage to be wrong.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 11:01 AM
Subject: fw K. Paul Johnson Re: Considering Bahaism? Fact #4
Paul,
Hope you don't stop reading and contributing! I don't
mind forwarding for you or others.
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 1:33 AM
Subject: Baha's Arabic
>Dear Fred,
>
>I hate to keep asking you to forward. It's frustrating to be
>able to read arb but not to be able to post. Thought I'd gotten
>Dejanews functioning to that end, but so far no success. Could
>you please forward this (and a couple more) and then I'll stop
>reading rather than keep bothering you:
>
>Dear Arbdenizens:
>
>Intrigued by the Schaut/Mulligan discussion about Baha'u'llah's
>Arabic, I wrote to an expert in both the author and the language
>in question. Here's what Juan Cole replied: "Baha'u'llah was a
>high notable, whose father was at one point the governor of
>Luristan and Burujird (and who had married into the royal
>family), and he had an excellent liberal arts education,
>including in the basics of Arabic. However, his Arabic was not
>in fact flawless. His early tablets are full of grammatical
>errors and idiosyncrasies. Only later in life did he have these
>rewritten in standard Arabic."
>
>Hope this sheds some light,
>
>Paul
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 11:04 AM
Subject: fw K. Paul Johnson Critiqued or attacked? (Re: Considering Bahaism? Fact #4)
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 1:48 AM
Subject: Critiqued or attacked?
>Dear Arbians,
>
>Robert Little says that "critiqued, attacked, assaulted, reviled,
>it depends on your point of view." There's a grain of truth in
>that but a large amount of error. The true part, from my own
>perspective: I wrote books about H.P. Blavatsky and Edgar Cayce
>that did the same thing, placing their work in historical
>perspective, examining the sources of their teachings, evaluating
>the claims made on their behalf. In each case I ended up with a
>revisionist account of a movement founder that established a
>middle way between the hagiographies of believers and the attacks
>of debunkers. But while Theosophical officialdom predominantly
>saw this as "attacking, reviling" etc., the Cayce family and
>A.R.E. leaders saw it as "critique" which they welcome with open
>arms and have publicly embraced. The difference was indeed one
>of point of view. Baha'is, too, if told "I think Baha'u'llah was
>about half right and half wrong" (roughly my position) would tend
>to see this in much more hostile terms than Cayceans. Why?
>Cayce admitted his fallibility, didn't believe everything that
>came through his trances, encouraged people to test and weigh and
>discard whatever didn't suit them personally, and thus created a
>climate much more friendly to critique. Baha, and implicitly
>Blavatsky, made claims to infallibility which created an
>atmosphere of rigid hyperorthodoxy and defensiveness in their
>followers.
>
>Nevertheless, in recent posts here Baha'u'llah *has* been
>"attacked, assaulted, reviled"-- something I have never done. It
>irks me somewhat to think that some Baha'is lump all criticism
>together, not making the distinction between blatantly hostile
>and disrespectful commentary and simple disagreement and
>critique. The difference is not simply one of point of view of
>the reader. It is objective. Scorn, contempt, ridicule have no
>legitimate place in discourse among people committed to inter-religious
>fellowship and discussion-- be they Baha'is or ex. IMO.
>
>Cheers,
>Paul
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 11:15 AM
Subject: fw K. Paul Johnson CB double standard
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 2:08 AM
Subject: CB double standard
>Dear Arbites,
>
>One does not have to know all the details of a situation to
>recognize the attitude expressed by someone reacting to it.
>Roger Reini's reaction to a CB post involved revulsion, shivers,
>being "made sick" thinking about it, and so on. This is
>obviously fear-based and rests on an attitude. That attitude is
>that "challenges to the legitimacy and authority of Baha'i
>institutions are an outrage."
>
>It has already been pointed out that Baha'is have no qualms about
>making nasty personal remarks about CBs in history; read Shoghi
>Effendi or Adib Taherzadeh for examples. But I am more concerned
>about the double standard involving how Baha'is want to be
>treated by other religions and how they treat their own
>dissenters.
>
>As a Christian, I find Baha'i claims about the Second Coming to
>be misguided, misleading, and unfortunate. But not outrageous,
>or offensive, or something to feel revulsion and shivers and
>sickness over. Yet Baha'is are saying to Christians essentially
>the same thing CBs are saying to Baha'is: "Your religious leaders
>have it all wrong. The true succession is in our hands, not
>yours. We are the true representatives of the Covenant, whereas
>you have violated it." How have Christians reacted to this,
>historically? "Well, fine, whatever you say. Come on in,
>compete in the marketplace of ideas, see what you can accomplish.
>We disagree with your claims but welcome you to press them
>however you wish." Not all Christians, but Christian-dominated
>societies have taken this approach all over the world. Same with
>Hindu and Buddhist societies. Baha'i has been welcomed despite
>its claims to supersede these religions. Why? Christianity,
>Hinduism and Buddhism have such a long history of growing
>tolerance for internal diversity (with a hell of a lot of
>bloodshed and oppression getting to that point) that a climate
>has been created which Baha'i can take advantage of, put down
>roots and flourish. What world religion has been most hostile to
>Baha'i? Islam, which was responsible for thousands of martyrdoms
>and continues to either persecute or suppress Baha'i believers.
>Yet Baha'is preach to Christians and Hindus and Buddhists that we
>should accept Islam as the next stage in spiritual evolution, and
>Baha'i as the one after that. We should embrace the Quran as
>holy, and regard Islam as an advance on everything that went
>before it. That is an extremely hard idea to sell to followers
>of other world religions, all of which have experienced Islam
>more as oppressive and destructive than as liberating and
>enlightening.
>
>But I digress. The problem with Baha'i attitudes to CBs as a
>double standard is this. Baha'is think that the proper response
>to people making succession claims at variance with orthodoxy is
>to shun and silence them. Yet they don't want to be shunned and
>silenced themselves, and are making parallel claims vis-a-vis
>Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam.
>
>Do unto others...
>
>PJ
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 1999 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Good show!
"The Bahai Technique":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 9:22 AM
To: RMckin6046
Subject: Re: Good show!
I have not read your message. Please do not
email when replying on arb.
-----Original Message-----
From: RMckin6046 <rmckin6046@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 2:01 AM
Subject: Re: Good show!
>Fred:
>
>I must apologize for offending you. I am sorry.
>
>Perhaps I am naive. Perhaps I am mistaken. But I did not think that I
>deserves the standard "The Bahai Technique" reply to my recent post.
>
>I sincerely meant my last sentence: "I appreciate them both. Keep up the
good
>work." This was a complimentary statement from me to you. It was not a
dig
>nor was it some back-handed way to insult you.
>
>I have disagreed with you at times. And, I have tried to keep my posts on
>topic, not on personality. Surely, it is okay that we disagree in an open
>forum.
>
>I have also agreed with you at times, and I have said so. I have
especially
>agreed that people tend to respond in the manner that they are addressed
>causing them to react to your personality and to slights that they perceive
>were aimed personally at them. I once suggested that we guard against
>responding to the manner in which we perceive the posts were written and
stick
>to the content of the posts. As I recall, your initial response to this
post
>was favorable, but later you criticized it.
>
>I am at a loss. Can we discuss things without my criticizing your manner
and
>the way you write and without you questioning my motives? Is there a way
that
>we can be friends without me becoming a critic of the Faith and the
Baha'is?
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Richard
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Context of my quote
For the non-Bahai or news.groupie, I am responding to this
message. Bahais have repeatedly, consistently attempted
to threaten, intimidate, and coerce other Bahais and non-Bahais
through "private" email. I agree with the many, many observers
over the last few years that the only way to prevent such tactics
by Bahais is the open light of day.... where all may read and
judge for themselves. Important links might be:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/hate.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
Among others....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Smaneck wrote in message <19990109154142.00851.00010954@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>Dear Milissa,
>
>I applaud your integrity in not letting Fred take your statement out of
>context. I'm surprised to see that he did agree to remove your quote. What
>would be most appropriate would be if he removed everything he has put up
>without the author's consent, especially those who have made it quite clear
>that they object to his having done this. I point especially to the private
>correspondence which he has placed on his website.
>warmest,
>
>Susan
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 7:53 AM
To: bahai-faith @ egroups.com
Cc: talisman
Subject: Fw: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
Newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,alt.religion.bahai,soc.rights.human,talk
.religion.misc
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:41 PM
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
> RESULT
> unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>
>There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
>votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
>
>For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
>(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
>than NO votes.
>
>A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
>serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
>moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
>thereafter.
>
>Newsgroups line:
>talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
>
>Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
>
>This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>
>Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
>Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
>Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>
>RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
>
>The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
>open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
>the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
>
>The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
>than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
>will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
>opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
>less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
>many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
>to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
>
>CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
>
>All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
>teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
>discussion.
>
>Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
>accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
>any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
>criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
>their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
>questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
>question.
>
>Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
>newsgroup.
>
>Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
>start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
>articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
>
>The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
>prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
>and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
>prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
>HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
>
>Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
>are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
>cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
>
>END CHARTER.
>
>
>DISTRIBUTION:
>
>In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
>and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
>
>Mailing list name: Talisman
>Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
>Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
>Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
>Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
>
>Mailing list name: h-Bahai
>Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
>Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: bahai-faith
>Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
>Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
>
>alt.religion
>soc.religion.eastern
>soc.religion.gnosis
>soc.religion.hindu
>soc.religion.paganism
>soc.religion.quaker
>soc.religion.unitarian-univ
>talk.religion.buddhism
>talk.religion.newage
>talk.philosophy.humanism
>talk.philosophy.misc
>uk.religion.interfaith
>uk.religion.misc
>uk.religion.other-faiths
>
>
>
>talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
>
>Voted YES
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
Garner
>johnn#mpx.com.au John
New
>mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
Clark
>house#usq.edu.au Ron
House
>jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
Marangella
>ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
House
>billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
Brewer
>sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
Sugimoto
>crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
Leech
>shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
Shaheedi
>trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
Meherally
>zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
Zarepour.
>narayan123#123india.com Kanva
Narayan
>tierney#alloymail.com Sal
Tierney
>hanv#angelfire.com Haq
Hanvey
>AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
Ali
>BRaynor781#aol.com
>CRust60001#aol.com
>Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
Glaysher
>HANI72#aol.com Hani
Ayyad
>Jimo3#aol.com Jim
Overmyer
>JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
Hamilton
>KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
Haines
>Macho786#aol.com Maaz
Khan
>Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
Lee
>PParvin#aol.com
>RayHanania#aol.com John
Doe
>RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
Nikjoo
>SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
Parent.
>Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
(shaksway)
>Smastr#aol.com Sam
Masters
>amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
Elmasri
>macleod#beloved.com John
MacLeod
>alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
Dawson
>kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
Kindervater
>tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
Buckland
>sandraa#ccnmail.com
S. A.
>habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
Abu-Hantash
>markow#chickmail.com Sassy
Markow
>Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
Laudrigan
>jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
Goldberg
>kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
Family
>eridani#databasix.com
Belinda
>booda#datasync.com Martin H.
Booda
>guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
Macon)
>vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
Minai
>carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
Carducci
>UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
Ungarino
>john_brownston#educastmail.com John
Brownston
>mercado959#email.com Jennifer
Mercado
>edwardiii#england.com Edward
III
>stomljen#enteract.com Steve
Tomljenovic
>rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
Roth
>alshawa#erols.com Amer
Alshawa
>shaukat#erols.com Khalid
Shaukat
>tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
Tutstone
>lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
Lopez
>umaraadil#excite.com
> Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
Abdullah
>gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
Kerley
>david#farrar.com David
Farrar
>lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
Vendome
>wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
Wilson
>runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
Runchey
>dave#frackit.com Dave
Ratcliffe
>howie#giantsfan.com Ron
Howard
>kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
Kendrick
>BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
Hoyt
>bjv#herbison.com B.J.
Herbison
>maher#home.com Maher
Barakat
>c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
Nunez
>burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
Frade-Burnett
>shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
Husain
>rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
Detweiler
>rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
Shane
>goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
Goodlett
>takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
Takriti
>hopegartner#iname.com Alice
Hopegartner
>matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
Cromer
>ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
Amirazodi
>muntada#inix.com
Rashid
>jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
DeVoto
>kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
Unanda
>samorgan#java-man.com
<FONT =
>r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
Rusan
>Aansari#dc.jones.com
Aamir=20
>o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
Kordy
>Christensen#kansascity.com Len
Christensen
>henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
Wadsworth
>todomanana#latino.com Miguel
Hernandez
>David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
Vessell
>sponseller#lycosmail.com David
Sponseller
>EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
Badalian
>ogreen#mailcity.com
Ogreen
>jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
Jensen
>hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
Hoffman
>cipher#mindspring.com
Cipher
>unrein#cig.mot.com W.
Sanders-Unrein
>billmc#email.msn.com Bill
McJohn
>chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
followed
>olav#viking.mv.com Olav
Nieuwejaar
>hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
Shambashi
>marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
Muljadi
>rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
Little
>sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
Sutherland
>mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
Holmes
>dmarasco#npsnet.com David
Marasco
>cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
Gruber
>jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
Tidwell
>rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
Carreiro
>ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
Ellenberg
>E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
Adams
>MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
Raflin
>robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
Warren
>timken#prontomail.com Ruth
Timken
>Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
Ulhaque
>jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
Meller
>griffin#rednecks.com Bud
Griffin
>chvatel#rotfl.com David
Chvatel
>maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
Maruyama
>harold#shinsato.com Harold
Shinsato
>imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
Mufti
>pan#syix.com
Pan
>s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
Humes
>josephb#tezcat.com Joe
Bernstein
>charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
<BR>
>lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
<BR>
>AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
Riecker
>smahmud#uop.com Shahid
Mahmud
>lingel#email.women.com Sam
Lingel
>haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
Haldi
>arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
Tajarobi
>galaxy001#yahoo.com
j.s.
>kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
Krupowicz
>nimans#yahoo.com Niman
Shukairy
>padidehjan#yahoo.com
PadidehjAn
>uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
Uhler
>kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
Akhtar
>vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
erle
>indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
Poerwanto
>cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
Stone
>nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
McNelly
>hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
Fung
>jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
Deutsch
>jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
Dresner
>jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
Walbridge
>moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
Alatovic
>osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
Osborn
>akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
Akhtar
>daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
Daas
>wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
Khan
>slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
Smith
>kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
Kopetsky
>DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
Ajami
>fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
Baker
>fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
Baker
>ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
Shaikh
>nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
Saleh
>jrcole#umich.edu Juan
Cole
>nizam#umich.edu Nizam
Arain
>harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
Harinath
>hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
Hougen
>whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
Whitling
>dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
Bowie
>aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
Abd-Allah
>endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
Kusumo
>malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
Alo
>ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
Doe
>pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
Johnson
>aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
Ahmed
>nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
Ali
>rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
Rufinus
>Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
Wolf
>vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
Saarinen
>bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
McEwan.
>nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
Mastrakoulis
>khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
Yussof
>rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
rahman
>sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
Truto
>mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
Boyer=20
>davetayl#concentric.net David
Taylor
>islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
Ahmed</FONT>
>booko#earthlink.net Sharon
Bouchard
>oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
King
>ljmoore#freespace.net
LarryMoore
>sas#frontiernet.net
Stuart S
>baird#gate.net Baird
Stafford
>sinanju#gateway.net John
Noland
>lightspring#jps.net Thomas
Spellman
>rreini#mediaone.net Roger
Reini
>peterry#megalink.net
Peter=20
>bmathieu#micron.net Brent
Mathieu
>EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
Pierce
>jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
Tymchuk
>r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
Marsou
>RPittman#postmark.net Richard
Pittman
>trhan#serv.net Teri
Rhan
>alhadid#SoftHome.net
Muhammad=20
>m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
Madansky
>ayloush#usa.net Hussam
Ayloush
>ceo4life#usa.net Harry
Clinkhammer
>Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
Cos
>tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
Carter
>emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
Jackson
>kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
Forrest
>irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
Rempt
>forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
Marshall
>iio#iio.org Islamic Information
Office
>irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
Irshad
>peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
Wright
>barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
Barthelmes
>andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
Gierth
>neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
kelley
>Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
Chambers
>SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
SamTHEMan
>
>Voted NO
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
Mansouri
>dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
Steyaert
>carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
Bowie
>towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
Towfiq
>AErfani#aol.com
>Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
Jenkins
>Mac0000013#aol.com
>Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
Mayerovitch
>kimdv#best.com Kim
DeVaughn
>stainles#bga.com Dwight
Brown
>david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
Ritscher
>r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
Butson
>lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
Smith
>camm#enhanced.com Camm
Maguire
>caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
R.)
>wcol#erols.com William
Collins
>tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
Hodges
>aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
Williams
>bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
Rosenbaum
>fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
Fazlollahi
>rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
McClendon
>screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
Banshee
>swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
Tague
>jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
Jam
>nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
Myers
>shohre#itis.com Shohreh
Mansouri
>bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
Limber
>lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
Polk
>palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
Blanford
>djull#mindspring.com David
Jull
>slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
McCoy
>bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
Walker
>chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
Ebenezer
>dc#panix.com David W.
Crawford
>persia#persia.com Robert
Moldenhauer
>Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
Allan
>billh#samoatelco.com Bill
Hyman
>doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
O'Brien
>manialip#wowmail.com Kate
Sparks
>francis_uy#yahoo.com
F Uy
>Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
Uthke
>naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
Weisgerber
>cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
Nelson
>aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
Aull
>rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
Miller
>kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
Kohli
>helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
Oney
>cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
Polk
>rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
Borseth
>ellis#ftel.net Rick
Ellis
>vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
Dura
>Scarecro#ime.net Tim
Griffin
>jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
Cornell
>verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
Verbrugh
>okoboji#prodigy.net
Loriann=20
>mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
Badii-Azandahi
>scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
>NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
Rule
>tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
Richards
>srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
Mawhinney
>merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
Rees
>Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
Sorenson
>leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
Towfigh
>
>Abstained
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
Gennario
>chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
Zimmerman
>tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
Roshan-Zamir
>neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
Crellin
>schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
Schuette
>rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
Troxel
>
>Invalid ballots
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
Afrashteh
> ! Disqualified
>webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
Abdullah
> ! Ineligible address
>ALTAFH#aol.com
> ! No vote statement in message
>MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
Boyd
> ! No vote statement in message
>LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
(1.8c)
> ! No vote statement in message
>lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
Hollinger
> ! No vote statement in message
>smeanver#tm.net.my
smeanver
> ! No vote statement in message
>mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
Bob/Zannie
> ! No vote statement in message
>
>To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
>following command:
>
> sed -e 's/#/@/g'
>
>--
>Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 6:43 PM
To: afshin.afrashteh@utoronto.ca
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
Afshin,
I couldn't agree more!
I better not say this on news.groups right now,
but thanks for your and your fellow Muslims' help.
It's hard to be sure, but I count possibly 48 Muslim
YES votes.
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: afshin.afrashteh@utoronto.ca <afshin.afrashteh@utoronto.ca>
Newsgroups: news.groups
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>In article <916026106.17084@isc.org>,
> Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com> wrote:
>> RESULT
>> unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>>
>
>Peace be upon those that receive true guidance,
>
>Well I have to say I am extremely pleased and thank the Lord that this
passed.
>Everyone who voted YES deserves credit (whether my muslim brothers and
>sisters or bahai's or for that matter other non-baha'is) for being
open-minded
>and not afraid of open discussion.
>
>I campaigned for the YES side based on a principle...that I and other
muslims
>should have the right and freedom to post articles on the truth of Islam
>whenever we wished.
>
>I will be sure to take full advantage of this new development come summer
time
>:) For now...back to studies it is....wheeeewwww!
>
>PS...it seems that soc.religion.bahai has been on a downward trend in terms
of
>articles posted there lately. May this new development
(talk.religion.bahai)
>serve as the nail in the coffin for that cesspool of censorship.
>
>Peace,
>
>Afshin Afrashteh
>
>Answering Bahaullah
>http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3016/main.htm
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------
From: Dentler[SMTP:pcdd3@mw.sisna.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 2:41 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: conference of the birds
Greetings. I recently finished reading this book as well as stumbling
upon the bcca.org site. You mentioned that you taught this text in a
course. I would be very interested in learning more about this text. Is
there anyway I could purchase lecture notes, handouts, supplemental
sources, etc. that you used while teaching? It would be greatly
appreciated.
Best,
David
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 8:48 AM
To: pcdd3@mw.sisna.com
Subject: Re: conference of the birds
Thank you for your interest but I've learnt not to
respond to Bahais through private email. I'd be
happy to discuss it on the newly created
talk.religion.bahai or alt.religion.bahai. The former
should be widely available within a week or so.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
-----Original Message-----
From: Dentler <pcdd3@mw.sisna.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, January 11, 1999 7:40 PM
Subject: conference of the birds
>Greetings. I recently finished reading this book as well as stumbling
>upon the bcca.org site. You mentioned that you taught this text in a
>course. I would be very interested in learning more about this text. Is
>there anyway I could purchase lecture notes, handouts, supplemental
>sources, etc. that you used while teaching? It would be greatly
>appreciated.
>
>Best,
>David
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 9:19 AM
To: Dave Cornejo
Cc: Ron House; Frank Baker; Fran Baker; John Walker
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai
Dave,
Thanks for taking on such a stormy proposal. I know it
hasn't been easy for you and probably often a royal
pain....
Has the RESULT been sent to soc.religion.bahai?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Fran Baker[SMTP:fran@crhc.uiuc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 12:36 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Cc: Dave Cornejo; Ron House; Frank Baker; John Walker
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai
Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for taking on such a stormy proposal. I know it
> hasn't been easy for you and probably often a royal
> pain....
>
> Has the RESULT been sent to soc.religion.bahai?
>
> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
> On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Dear Fred, Ron, John, Frank, Dave,
I am SO happy that the vote succeeded. I wish we could get
together and exchange hugs. I feel so good about this.
I feel the newsgroup will be a chink to let light in
(though perhaps other stuff, too, but it's an imperfect world).
Love and good wishes for the future to you all,
Fran
----------
From: John Walker[SMTP:johnwalker@ozemail.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:22 AM
To: Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Frederick Glaysher; Ron House
Subject: Successful vote for TRB
Dear fellow proponents
Even though I had a very limited role to play in the process of establishing
Talk Religion Baha'i I am very happy to see that the vote was successful and
congratulate you all in its success.
Unfortunately I don't have very much spare time and you probably won't see
many contributions from me on TRB, nevertheless, I hope that the quality of
the debate is both positive and highly stimulating and conducted in a true
Baha'i spirit that will attract the hearts of people and assist them to come
to a better understanding of the knowledge and love revealed by Baha'u'llah
and which is so sorely needed in the world at this time.
John Walker
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:38 AM
Subject: Bahai threats
"The Bahai Technique":
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
For the non-Bahai or news.groupie, I am responding to this
message. Bahais have repeatedly, consistently attempted
to threaten, intimidate, and coerce other Bahais and non-Bahais
through "private" email. I agree with the many, many observers
over the last few years that the only way to prevent such tactics
by Bahais is the open light of day.... where all may read and
judge for themselves. Important links might be:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/hate.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
Among others....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:49 AM
To: Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Ron House; Dave Cornejo
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
I'd like to thank Dave Cornejo, the votetaker, for
volunteering to conduct this 3rd interest poll for
talk.religion.bahai. Usenet truly depends on such people
contributing their time and labor for the benefit of others.
I also thank all of the news.groups regulars who have
participated and contributed in one way or another
during this 3rd interest poll and/or the previous two polls
over the last two years.
I and other Bahais and non-Bahais are deeply indebted
to all of you for your help and advice.
Thank you....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
I'd like to thank Dave Cornejo, the votetaker, for
volunteering to conduct this 3rd interest poll for
talk.religion.bahai. Usenet truly depends on such people
contributing their time and labor for the benefit of others.
I also thank all of the news.groups regulars who have
participated and contributed in one way or another
during this 3rd interest poll and/or the previous two polls
over the last two years.
I and other Bahais and non-Bahais are deeply indebted
to all of you for your help and advice.
Thank you....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 8:09 AM
To: John Walker; Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Ron House
Subject: Re: Successful vote for TRB
Re: "John Walker"
I don't believe you've had any role to play. You
never once posted a single message in a public
forum supporting trb nor did you even vote for
the newsgroup, so profound was your "support"
for it.
I've never been convinced that you were at all honest
in your involvement and remained unconvinced. I find
your message below quite contemptible....
Do not email me again....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
-----Original Message-----
From: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
To: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>; Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>;
Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>; Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 6:23 AM
Subject: Successful vote for TRB
>Dear fellow proponents
>
>Even though I had a very limited role to play in the process of
establishing
>Talk Religion Baha'i I am very happy to see that the vote was successful
and
>congratulate you all in its success.
>
>Unfortunately I don't have very much spare time and you probably won't see
>many contributions from me on TRB, nevertheless, I hope that the quality of
>the debate is both positive and highly stimulating and conducted in a true
>Baha'i spirit that will attract the hearts of people and assist them to
come
>to a better understanding of the knowledge and love revealed by Baha'u'llah
>and which is so sorely needed in the world at this time.
>
>John Walker
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 9:00 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Antinomies - Frodo, Prospero
Frodo:
"But I have been too deeply hurt, Sam. I tried to save the Shire,
and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam,
when things are in danger; some one has to give them up, lose
them, so that others may keep them. But you are my heir...."
Prospero:
"Now my charms are all o'erthrown,
And what strength I have's mine own,
Which is most faint....
But release me from my bands,
With the help of your good hands.
Gentle breath of yours my sails
Must fill, or else my project fails,
Which was to please. Now I want
Spirits to enforce, art to enchant;
And my ending is despair
Unless I be relieved by prayer,
Which pierces so, that it assaults
Mercy itself, and frees all faults.
As you from crimes would pardoned be,
Let your indulgence set me free."
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 12:53 PM
Subject: talk.religion.bahai RESULT on soc.religion.bahai?
Has anyone seen the RESULT posted on soc.religion.bahai? It has
appeared on the other newsgroups listed in the CFV.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Ron House[SMTP:house@usq.edu.au]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 1:29 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: Successful vote for TRB
Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
> Re: "John Walker"
>
> I don't believe you've had any role to play. You
> never once posted a single message in a public
> forum supporting trb nor did you even vote for
> the newsgroup, so profound was your "support"
> for it.
>
> I've never been convinced that you were at all honest
> in your involvement and remained unconvinced. I find
> your message below quite contemptible....
>
> Do not email me again....
Don't be a dill, Fred! I KNOW why John joined and where his time goes,
and people have told me that such a proponent made them think twice.
Anyway, a sign of a great person is to be gracious in victory.
--
Ron House house@usq.edu.au
You can only be right if you have the courage to be wrong.
----------
From: K. Paul Johnson[SMTP:pjohnson@vsla.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 5:40 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Congrats
Dear Fred,
I know you must be pleased with the results, as I am. Thanks for
all your effort on behalf of trb. I just hope the bastards
aren't cooking up some scheme to abort it. But the time is
almost up for that.
Schaut is a real piece of work! 5 personal attacks on me in one
day, a record. Think I'll start ignoring him again. Even though
he's a total asshole and deserves harassment since he's dished it
out so much, I'm softhearted and can't help feeling sorry for him
the way Tim is lambasting him. "Epistle to the Weasel" indeed.
Funny that Tim abuses him, I'm polite to him, but he abuses me
and not Tim. Wonder what's behind that. Well, he's shut up
today as far as I'm involved which is good to see.
Congratulations and let's hope the new newsgroup gets more
traffic than srb and arb combined!
Cheers,
Paul
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 6:38 PM
To: K. Paul Johnson
Subject: Re: Congrats
<<File: Annotated NO voters - 3rd interest poll.txt>>
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 4:40 PM
Subject: Congrats
>Dear Fred,
>
>I know you must be pleased with the results, as I am. Thanks for
>all your effort on behalf of trb. I just hope the bastards
>aren't cooking up some scheme to abort it. But the time is
>almost up for that.
Thanks. You're about the only person who has said anything
kind about it! I'm worrying too that they're up to something.
They always have been in the past.... I've done an Annotated
NO voters this time too but am waiting until trb is up and
running before posting it there and on arb. I'll attach it, though,
for you....
>
>Schaut is a real piece of work! 5 personal attacks on me in one
>day, a record. Think I'll start ignoring him again. Even though
>he's a total asshole and deserves harassment since he's dished it
>out so much, I'm softhearted and can't help feeling sorry for him
>the way Tim is lambasting him. "Epistle to the Weasel" indeed.
>Funny that Tim abuses him, I'm polite to him, but he abuses me
>and not Tim. Wonder what's behind that. Well, he's shut up
>today as far as I'm involved which is good to see.
I couldn't agree more with you about Schaut. If he shows
up again refer to him as "Schauting"-- Fran used it in email
with me last August and when I accused him of it a few
times he disappeared for months! Probably Reini and some
of the other literalists tell him to back off as well.
>
>Congratulations and let's hope the new newsgroup gets more
>traffic than srb and arb combined!
I appreciate it. Srb has really been on
the boards lately. If you would, point out too that they
haven't posted the RESULT as they should have as
members of Usenet and participants all along otherwise
in this poll. I love to kick Hyman every chance I get....
Srb shot itself in the foot (or ass) this time around in
a number of ways. But I'm waiting for the 10 period to
expire before I really get into it.
Thanks for all your help too, Paul. The first time I was
really a lone voice. You and others have really made
the difference....
Fred
>
>Cheers,
>
>Paul
>
----------
From: Ron House[SMTP:house@usq.edu.au]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 1:06 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher; Dave Cornejo; Frank Baker; Fran Baker; John Walker
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai
I wanted to thank all of my co-proponents, and you, Dave, for all the
hard work and efforts that have gone into this proposal. I know it has
been a hard road and tempers have frayed and feelings been hurt at
times, but the result shows that we all can co-operate and achieve
results. When the NG is actually formed, I suggest that all of us
proponents start with a fresh slate and make it a happy, pleasant place
for people to go.
At long last we can start discussing issues rather than why we haven't
got a place to discuss issues... :-)
--
Ron House house@usq.edu.au
You can only be right if you have the courage to be wrong.
----------
From: Ron House[SMTP:house@usq.edu.au]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 1:16 AM
To: Fran Baker
Cc: Frederick Glaysher; Frank Baker; John Walker
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai
Hi Fran,
> I am SO happy that the vote succeeded. I wish we could get
> together and exchange hugs. I feel so good about this.
> I feel the newsgroup will be a chink to let light in
> (though perhaps other stuff, too, but it's an imperfect world).
It's nice when things work out, especially as this one was a long time
coming. I do think a major tragedy was averted for the Baha'i Faith, as
failure would have resulted in a huge amount of accusations of
intolerance and censorship. It will be interesting to see the pattern of
posting to the NG. I notice that SRB struggles these days to get half a
dozen posts a day, but I can not believe that that is the limit of
world-wide interest in the Baha'i Faith. Clearly a better forum is
needed, and TRB can be IT!
We have to start well, though. People have criticised Fred for posting
so much to alt.religion.bahai, but Fred has had to cross-post other
people's posts to mailing lists etc., which people don't seem to take
account of. It would be good if we get a wide variety of participants
instead of having the bulk of the articles from just a few. I believe it
is up to us to set the tone, avoid acrimony, avoid discussing the past
history of this proposal, and focus on the future. But like you, Fran, I
believe we can do it.
--
Ron House house@usq.edu.au
You can only be right if you have the courage to be wrong.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:44 AM
To: Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Ron House; Dave Cornejo
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
The RESULT posting has not yet appeared on
soc.religion.bahai as it should.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
The RESULT posting has not yet appeared on
soc.religion.bahai as it should.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On
talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:49 AM
To: Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Ron House; Dave Cornejo
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
From the RFD:
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.misc,soc.rights.human
From the CFV:
Date: 1998/12/04
Forums: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
soc.rights.human, talk.religion.misc
Dave Cornejo had removed srb and posted the RFD and CFV
to soc.religion.bahai via email. It only stands to reason that
it should also be done for the RESULT. If soc.religion.bahai
is a participating member of Usenet, I don't see why they
should object to sharing the news with their members and
welcoming a newly formed group.
Because soc.religion.bahai has been suppressing all messages
from me since May 29, 1998, I hardly seem to be the person
now to post the RESULT.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
From the RFD:
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.misc,soc.rights.human
From the CFV:
Date: 1998/12/04
Forums: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, alt.religion.bahai,
soc.rights.human, talk.religion.misc
Dave Cornejo had removed srb and posted the RFD and CFV
to soc.religion.bahai via email. It only stands to reason that
it should also be done for the RESULT. If soc.religion.bahai
is a participating member of Usenet, I don't see why they
should object to sharing the news with their members and
welcoming a newly formed group.
Because soc.religion.bahai has been suppressing all messages
from me since May 29, 1998, I hardly seem to be the person
now to post the RESULT.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:53 AM
Subject: fw Juan Cole on mass teaching & Maneck's AOL slander
Subj: Re: What's going on?
Date: 1/15/1999 2:09:31 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: jrcole@umich.edu (Juan Cole)
To: fglaysher@aol.com (Fglaysher)
Dear Fred:
I became a Baha'i in 1972, when the news of the entry by troops in South
Carolina was still fresh, and all of us were excited by it. What I did not
know was that by then the NSA had already pulled the plug on the process.
They ordered the traveling teachers, like Mag Carney, out (and sanctioned
those who did not obey this order), and pulled monetary resources out of
teaching and put it into 'consolidation.' There is no doubt that the NSA
did stop the process; I have done interviews with a number of eyewitnesses
of the time. A reporter who interviewed an NSA member told me that the
latter admitted that 'we [the NSA] put the skids on it.'
Chain conversion, like chain immigration, is a spontaneous process. It
spreads by word of mouth. You had entire Baptist congregations declaring
for Baha'u'llah, the minister included. You saw notices outside Black
churches advertising 'Baha'i meeting on Sunday Night at 7:00 pm.' There
were some declaration cards that were signed in error. I know of no
scientific study of what proportion of them were. Robert Stockman has
suggested that the proportion has been exaggerated.
But when you stop chain conversion, it can often go cold altogether. It is
over with. Forever. The immediate networks and conditions that made it
possible evaporate. This is what happened in the South. The NSA stomped
out entry by troops, with deliberation and aforethought (and over the
objections of a minority of NSA members like Dick Betts).
Why exactly the NSA stopped the process is not entirely clear. Obviously,
the more conservative members of that body have tended to be very worried
about losing their tight control over local communities, and the entry of
large numbers of poor, rural, largely illiterate Blacks challenged their
system of control mechanisms (you can't dissolve a sassy LSA if there isn't
an LSA at all). Eyewitnesses did report to me hearing conservative NSA
members speaking of their worries over loss of control. One Baha'i I knew
personally who had done travel teaching in SC in 1971 mentioned to me
problems with charismatic converts who raised alarums in Wilmette about the
possibility for schism.
Eric Pierce reported that one prominent African-American believer active in
the teaching work was convinced that it was stopped because of fears in
Wilmette that the community would be swamped by the newcomers and that they
might in turn elect a new NSA. I have lots of evidence that over the years
the NSA's more repressive actions have often been motivated by fears of
being unseated, and certainly a big demographic shift of this nature must
have raised such fears. Whether they were the primary reason for the NSA
to shut down the conversion process, I do not know. That some informed
veteran Baha'is of the time thought they were is indisputable.
Dan Jordan told one friend of mine that in the mid-60s the NSA had voted on
whether to punish a southern white Baha'i who refused to desegregate his
shop. The NSA decided to take away his administrative rights. But
Charlotte Linfoot had opposed this action. It seems to me incredible that
in 1970-71 Charlotte was suddenly just delighted with the prospect of the
influx of tens of thousands of poor, rural African-Americans (whom she had
been content to have suffer Jim Crow segregation at the hands of *Baha'i*
white shopkeepers on a few years before). Or that the idea that they might
come to dominate the NSA thrilled her. Maneck has said that the NSA would
have been delighted to see the South Carolina converts show up at national
convention. Can she cite even one contemporary document, or even an
interview with a principal, which would corroborate this unlikely
proposition? It is a typical characteristic of propaganda that baseless
allegations are put forward that seem contrary to common sense, which their
authors hope will become plausible by virtue of the fallacy of authority or
through constant repetition.
I have said before that I personally think that the issues in control
outweighed the issues in race among most of the NSA members (but not all).
I think both issues were present. What is truly amazing is that on the
whole the NSA managed to a) stop this spontaneous chain conversion, b)
avoid most of the community coming to know that they had stopped it, c)
avoid any accountability whatsoever for doing so, and d) to implement a
policy of disrupting further such outbreaks of spontaneous mass conversion,
which they have pursued behind the scenes ever since. Do you think, if a
referendum had been held in early 1971, a majority of US Baha'is would have
voted to deliberately *stop* the process of the entry by troops in the
South? Of course not. If the NSA had been so proud of what it did, it
wouldn't have virtually covered it up. House of Justice member Ali
Nakhjavani complained that this step set back the Baha'i faith in the U.S.
'by a generation.' He underestimated its impact.
But the real question is what can be learned from all this. The indication
is that the structure and functioning of Baha'i national elections actually
works against the best interests of the faith. The anxiety of sitting
members about being unseated has caused them to act repressively over and
over again. That is why I used to argue for term limits for NSA members,
and for the abolition of a paid Secretary. Someone who receives $150,000
or more per annum in cash and perquisites will naturally be worried about
losing that income. If the NSA members were unremunerated and knew they
would only be on for 3-5 years, then they would be less likely to worry
about being unseated, and would allow more free and open discourse and
teaching work in the community.
The current system is clearly a failure. If one subtracts the Iranian
immigrants, there are no more adult Baha'is in the US now than there were
in 1978. Many of the most capable Baha'is have been chased out of the
faith. And anyone who points out the problems is branded an enemy of the
faith.
So I just plead with the open-minded to ask themselves this question: What
went wrong in 1971 such that the entry by troops was stopped? And how
could things be changed so as to make this sort of ultra-conservative
cautiousness less of a constraint on community growth in the future? The
point is not to condemn what happened in the past, but to make things
better. The Baha'i faith has a great deal to offer the world. Its leaders
are ensuring that its light is hidden under a bushel.
cheers Juan Cole
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To: fglaysher@aol.com (Fglaysher)
From: Juan Cole <jrcole@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: What's going on?
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----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:57 AM
To: K. Paul Johnson
Subject: Maneck responds
Subject: Re: 2nd: Maneck on AOL about YOU!
Date: 1/14/1999 9:49 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Smaneck
Message-id: <19990114214936.09878.00001354@ng-fi1.aol.com>
Dear Paul,
I hardly see anything which I posted in my introductory remarks which is all
that different than what you yourself have said. Nor do I see how they could
be interpreted as calmunies. For many of us the distinction between "serial
monogamists" and "stable polygamists" in the spiritual realm is not all that
important. The major purpose of my own introductory remarks was mostly to
point out that you were not an unbiased observer but rather a disgruntled
ex-Baha'i with a distaste for authority and a preference for the spiritual
"flea market" approach of New Age Movements. I stand by that
characteriazation. Or would you like to tell us you are not an ex-Baha'i,
that you are pefectly happy with the Faith the way it is, or that obedience
to authority presents no problems for you? If so, I will cheerfully admit
my mistake and retract my remarks.
Susan
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:58 AM
To: K. Paul Johnson
Subject: 2nd maneck
Subject: Re: Maneck on AOL about YOU!
Date: 1/14/1999 9:32 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Smaneck
Message-id: <19990114213227.09878.00001339@ng-fi1.aol.com>
K. Paul Johnson wrote:
>>PS-- All the ins and outs of the Talisman situation should be
>>discussed on talk.religion.bahai, where some of the principals
>>are likely to be. I'm copying this to Juan Cole so he will know
>>of your personal attack, and may comment himself.
Dear Paul,
I discussed the article here because it was posted here. Had it not been, I
certainly would not have brought it up! When you write things like this for
publicly distribution their contents will be discussed and critiqued
publicly. It is truly amazing to me the way you guys will say anything about
anyone and then scream "backbiting" when anyone responds to your
misrepresentations! But it was this hypocrisy that caused me to eventually
begin see
through all of this in the first place. Baha'u'llah urged the rulers to
observe justice *adl* and the learned fairmindedness *infsaf*, but I found
no fairmindedness among those who styled themselves "scholars."
Susan
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 9:25 AM
To: Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Ron House; Dave Cornejo
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
The "Bogus Usenet Groups" regularly posted by David
Lawrence states:
talk.religion.bahai failed vote (use soc.religion.bahai)
I realize he'll know how to take care of this listing and send
out the command to properly establish talk.religion.bahai
but will the former bogus status create any kind of special
problem, such as administrative reluctance to add it?
It has been five days since the RESULT was posted on
January 10th by Dave Cornejo. What happens now?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
The "Bogus Usenet Groups" regularly posted by David
Lawrence states:
talk.religion.bahai failed vote (use soc.religion.bahai)
I realize he'll know how to take care of this listing and send
out the command to properly establish talk.religion.bahai
but will the former bogus status create any kind of special
problem, such as administrative reluctance to add it?
It has been five days since the RESULT was posted on
January 10th by Dave Cornejo. What happens now?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 9:38 AM
To: Dave Cornejo
Subject: RESULT on soc.religion.bahai?
Dave,
Please let me know whether or not you emailed the
RESULT to soc.religion.bahai. It's important for the
historical record.
Thanks.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Dave Cornejo[SMTP:dave@dogwood.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:00 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Cc: fran@crhc.uiuc.edu; fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu; house@usq.edu.au; dave@dogwood.com
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
Frederick,
I would appreciate it if you would not send me email anymore. I will
see what happened to the soc.religion.bahai posting if/when I have
time - despite your feelings on the matter it is hardly important for
the record to get it posted there. The "record" resides on an isc.org
ftp site and it is automatically maintained.
WRT when the group gets created; I don't know when that will happen,
I don't and can't issue that message. Tale does that and quite
frankly he's so busy right now I really wouldn't expect an answer any
time soon. Emailing him will only annoy him and not acheive
anything. It is in his queue and when he gets to it, it will be
done. I'm sorry, but that's the state of Usenet today.
As for me, my participation in the process for talk.religion.bahai is
all but over - you got your group passed so be happy and patient.
--
Dave Cornejo - Dogwood Media, Fremont, California
General Magician & Registered Be Developer
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 6:20 PM
Subject: fw K. Paul Johnson re The Spirit of Truth
-----Original Message-----
From: K. Paul Johnson <pjohnson@vsla.edu>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 10:19 AM
Subject: The Spirit of Truth
>Dear Fred,
>
>This is my swan song on arb; will be on trb when it comes up, and
>hopefully able to post directly. Please forward for me one last
>time:
>
>The Spirit of Truth
>
>Arguing over whether Muhammad or Baha'u'llah is the "Spirit of
>Truth" of the Farewell Discourses in the Gospel of John is quite
>misguided, as most any Christian would tell you. Not for
>dogmatic reasons of not wanting to accept subsequent religions,
>but simply because of the text and context of the quote. Jesus
>is most emphatically *not* telling people "Wait 600 or 1800
>years, and then a man will be sent from God with a message." He
>is saying "as soon as I depart, you will have direct access to
>the Father through the Spirit of Truth." I'll quote from my own
>book Edgar Cayce in Context where this is discussed, because
>Cayce most frequently recommended the Farewell Discourses
>(chapters 14 through 17) of all Bible passages:
>
>In dozens of readings, Cayce recommended study of one small
>section of the Bible which he said contained the essential
>spiritual message of his own work. The fourteenth through
>seventeenth chapters of the Gospel of John are known as the
>"Farewell discourses." This is a core text for "paracletic"
>Christian theosophy, asserting the interpenetration of the
>Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and the soul of the believer.
>After Jesus says at the conclusion of chapter 13 that he is going
>where his disciples cannot follow, he reassures them that this
>need not deprive them of his presence: "Let not your hearts be
>troubled, ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's
>house are many mansions; if it were not so I would have told you.
>I go to prepare a place for you." When Thomas asks how the
>disciples could know the way without Jesus to show them, he
>answers "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh
>unto the Father, but my me. If ye had known me, you would have
>known my father also; and from henceforth ye know him, and have
>seen him." Philip then asks to be shown the Father, to which
>Jesus replies that those who had seen him had seen the Father,
>for "I am in the Father, and the Father in me...the Father that
>dwelleth in me, he doeth the works...He that believeth on me, the
>works that I do shall he do also, and greater works than these
>shall he do..." Jesus then promises that the Father will send a
>Counselor, the Spirit of truth, and manifest himself to all who
>love him and keep his commandments.
>
>Chapter 15 opens with the metaphor of Jesus as the true vine, the
>Father as the husbandman, and the believer as the branch. "I am
>the vine, ye are the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in
>him, the same bringeth forth much fruit, without me ye can do
>nothing." Disciples are not servants of Christ but friends, for
>he has shared all his knowledge of the Father with them. But
>this friendship will bring persecution; in chapter 16, Jesus
>develops the theme that terrible hatred will afflict the
>disciples, but reiterates that the Spirit of truth will be sent
>to guide them into all truth, closing with the promise that "In
>the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer; I have
>overcome the world.." In the seventeenth chapter, Jesus
>announces that the hour of his sacrifice has come, but that no
>outward separation can break the bond between him and his
>friends, which will extend to all they convert after his death.
>"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall
>believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; as
>thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one
>in us: that the world may believe that thou has sent me. And the
>glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be
>one, even as we are one; I in them and thou in me, that they may
>be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou has
>sent me and hast loved them, as thou has loved me."
>
>There are valid historical questions about whether Jesus really
>said any of this, since John was the last of the four gospels
>and has quite distinctive emphases. But whether or not he spoke
>these words, the promise conveyed in them has nothing to do with
>the transcendent God of Islam and Baha'i, or with some far-off
>messenger with a new set of laws. It is about the immanent God
>of Jesus himself, whose immediate disciples are promised that
>they can experience the same immanence and do even greater good
>deeds. Jesus says "God and I are within you, and you are my friend and my
>equal." Muhammad and Baha'u'llah say "God is without you, I am
>in a privileged position closer to God than you are, and you have
>to do what I say to get right with God." Take your choice. But
>consider that "gospel" means "good news" and only one of these
>options seems like particularly good news.
>
>Cheers,
>Paul
>
----------
From: Juan Cole[SMTP:jrcole@umich.edu]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 4:27 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Re: Fw: fw Juan Cole on mass teaching & Maneck's AOL slander
1) I have never said that the motive or even a motive of the NSA in
closing down the mass teaching in the South in the early '70s was 'racism.'
It can be alleged all anyone likes that I have said this, but it cannot
be demonstrated, because I have not. I have simply reported that some
African-Americans at the time feared that such considerations entered in,
and I have specifically admitted that they may well have been wrong. It
seems to me, given the NSA's record, that without any doubt whatsoever a
kind of paternalism was involved.
There is evidence that Charlotte Linfoot was consistently unsympathetic to
Baha'i involvement in the civil rights movement from the lunch counter
demonstrations of 1960 forward, and I am afraid the interviewing I've done
with people who knew her leads me strongly to suspect that her quietism
acted as a screen for discomfort with uppity Blacks. Whether this feeling
entered into her vote on the South Carolina process, I am happy to admit I
do not know. I am glad that it is now uncontested that the NSA did shut
down the mass conversions, because only once that is established can there
then be reasoned consultation on what the full range of motives for that
was, and whether that was a good thing. I think you can imagine what
Ruhiyyih Khanum thought about it.
2) Bill Davis in one of his interrogations of the Dialogue editors in
spring, 1988, specifically said that the NSA had been worried that 'A
Modest Proposal' might come across to the delegates as a critique of the
sitting NSA's record (enrollments had fallen off drastically and virtually
no money was being put into teaching), and cost some of them election.
Only the poor naifs who have never actually had anything serious to do with
Wilmette are under the impression that no NSA member cares if he or she is
reelected. Some of these elected officials are drawing substantial money
out of the faith. The men all think they have a shot at getting elected to
the UHJ, and moving up to salaries in the large six figures as well as
enormous power in a community of 3 million. It is worries about being
reelected that drives the poor things to be so repressive sometimes, which
hurts the community generally, and the community if it were smart would
find a way out of this bad situation.
3) I have never called 'the Baha'i faith' a 'cult' globally. I rather
like most Baha'is I have known, and I admire the values for which the
Baha'i faith stands. I'd like to see it succeed better than it has. My
definition of a cult is a religious organization that exercises undue
control over adherents and that engages in deviant practices. The Baha'i
faith is not deviant, though there is a certain amount of personal
corruption among its officials. In some communities, and at some levels,
the degree of control that officials attempt to gain over adherents is
troubling to me. In particular, I believe that in an open society like the
U.S., the practice of shunning is generally a cult marker (as you have it
among Jehovah's Witnesses, e.g.). Thus, what I would say is that in some
communities and among some officials there are cult-like behaviors among
Baha'is, and that there is more such cult-like behavior in the Baha'i
community than there is in the Episcopalian or Methodist or Unitarian
Universalist communinities.
4)
>It should be clear to anyone by now who has been following these discussion
>that what happened between certain academics and the Baha'i administration
>had little to do with scholarship *per se.*
Our current discussion cannot in fact shed any light whatsoever on the
issues that caused Haifa to launch false and outrageous heresy accusations
against a number of Baha'i academics and intellectuals in April, 1996, for
their email messages. (Such a tolerant, universal, loving, Baha'i-like
action!) One of the cheap polemical tricks used by some people is to
employ things I have said and stances I have taken since I was mysteriously
and suddenly assaulted as ex post facto justifications for the assault.
Some of Talisman@indiana.edu is up on the Web. Anyone who can read my
messages there and conclude that I was a covenant breaker is just a sicko.
Obviously, once the high administration revealed to me how weird they are,
I went on to critique them more seriously on the basis of this new
knowledge. But using these new critiques, by someone now an outsider, to
justify the initial assault is like saying the victim of an attempted rape
provoked the rape when she sprayed mace at her assailant.
>As the House of Justice wrote me on
>Feb. 8, 1998:
>
> "They sought to use the language, the occasions and the credibility of
>scholarly activity to lend a counterfeit authority to a private enterprise
>which was essentially ideological in nature and self-motivated in origin."
This sentence means absolutely nothing. It is obscurantist gobbledegook
written by someone very anti-intellectual, very malicious and not very
bright. 'Unduly vague' doesn't even come close! If this were a charge
against a criminal in a U.S. judicial proceeding it would be laughed out
of court.
I did not 'use' the language, 'occasions' (what does this mean--can't they
learn *English*?), or 'credibility' (this also seems awkward) of academic
scholarship. I *practiced* academic scholarship. I engaged my subject
with the tools of analysis, contextualization, and the weighting of
causality. I engaged in academic scholarship, in a sincere and frank
search for the truth as I saw it (which I thought was what a Baha'i was
*supposed* to do). I did this with regard to 19th century Iranian Baha'i
history. I did it with regard to 20th century American. If I got
something wrong, it would have been enough to present alternative evidence
and analysis for my consideration. As an academic scholar, I am always
open to the latter. Instead, I was presented with threats and demands I
fall silent on pain of being shunned. How nice, gentle, loving, tolerant
that was.
What does it mean that this so-called 'counterfeit' authority was being
lent to an enterprise that was 'self-motivated?' I was sending email
messages to friends. How could that not be 'self-motivated?' Which of you
reading this has sent email messages to friends about a subject of interest
to you in a way that was not 'self-motivated?' I fear that the word
'cult-like' leaps out from this phrase. Behavior cannot be
'self-motivated' in the Baha'i faith? Everything has to come from Central
Direction, a la the Bolsheviks?
And how were my talisman@indiana.edu messages any more or less
'ideological' than the messages of anyone else who posted there, including
the UHJ itself, which certainly at any one time has a collective 'ideology'
(even though it shouldn't, and this is not its prerogative)? I'll bet you
our friends in Haifa couldn't even *define* ideology in a way that made any
social science sense. The real problem was not 'ideology' but 'ideas.'
And the fact is that a majority on the UHJ (or maybe even a minority--the
institution doesn't act in a rationalized fashion) didn't *like* my ideas,
and they didn't want me sharing them publicly.
The problem is that my ideas, expressed as non-authoritative individual
opinion, were none of their business. They are only authorized to
legislate. They aren't historians, they aren't sociologists, and they
aren't even theologians. Some of them are electrical engineers. If they
had any sense whatsoever they would keep their opinions about things like
professional history to themselves, because no one is interested in what
some fundamentalist engineer thinks about history, regardless of what he's
managed to get himself elected to. And because they couldn't debate my
ideas, they took the creepy, lazy path and declared them heretical and
tried to make them taboo. In doing this they only made themselves look
ridiculous for all time. In a hundred years people will still be reading
my book on Baha'u'llah. In a hundred years no one will have heard of any
of the current House members.
>They go on to say:
>
>"Your own familiarity with these same persons' behaviour will have provided
>you with ample illustration of the violence being done by their public and
>private statements to Baha'u'llah's teachings,
O.K. Somebody give me a concrete example of some 'behavior' of mine that
did 'violence' to Baha'u'llah's teachings any time in the period August
1972-April 1996. Anything at all. These Baha'i officials don't have the
slightest idea what Baha'u'llah even stood for on most issues, and they
reverse him whenever they find him inconvenient.
>which they profess to honour,
I did honor Baha'u'llah's teachings when I was a Baha'i. Someone should
give me some evidence to the contrary. Some of the people these individuals
in Haifa have promoted have been real sleazeballs, so who are they to stand
in judgment of my profession of faith 1972-1996?
>and to the cause of scholarship, which they profess to serve.
I have spent my life in the cause of academic scholarship. I have never,
ever, done violence to its methods, its integrity, or its findings. In
fact, to agree to allow myself to be silenced or censored by the UHJ or NSA
and to withhold from the public my research findings, as they insisted,
would have been a very serious derogation of my professional duties and a
betrayal of the public trust. These people don't have any respect for
academic scholarship. They have never supported it in any way. The insist
it be vetted (and therefore distorted and made dishonest). They have
managed to throw out or alienate a majority of the Baha'i academics in
Middle East studies who have dared actually pursue their profession and
write something serious on Baha'i studies.
>We cannot separate method from spirit and character."
Again, the UHJ is not empowered to stand in judgment of the character of
Baha'is. It is supposed to be leading Baha'is to build Mashriqu'l-Adhkars,
according to `Abdul-Baha. It is supposed to be doing major
philanthropical and charitable work, according to Shoghi Effendi. It is
supposed to legislate laws. It can only sanction actual behavior, not
sincere non-authoritative expressions of individual conscience. This is
scriptural. In fact, the UHJ has become a center of tyranny, of
authoritarianism, of censorship, of repression, of imposed superstition and
dogma. It has almost completely betrayed everything the Baha'i holy
figures stood for. And it could not do that if there weren't some *very*
serious flaws in the character of its members. Everyone should please pray
for them, and for me.
cheers Juan Cole
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 9:23 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: Antinomies - Milosz
"It appears that my oeuvre is Christian and even (practically)
irreproachable according to the criteria of Catholic theology.
I am not so sure, though I like to hear this. Certainly, it stands
out against the background of twentieth century poetry, also
Polish poetry, which is agnostic or atheist. Yet the religious
content of my poems is not the result of design by a believer;
it grew out of my doubts, turmoil, and despair, as they
searched for a form. If not for a strong heretical seasoning,
the religious content would not have been there. Thus, my
resistance to being squeezed into the rubric of "Catholic
poet" was well founded."
Czeslaw Milosz, Road-side Dog
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 9:30 AM
To: Juan Cole
Subject: Fw: fw Juan Cole on mass teaching & Maneck's AOL slander
FYI
-----Original Message-----
From: Smaneck <smaneck@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai
Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: fw Juan Cole on mass teaching & Maneck's AOL slander
>Let's look at Dr. Cole's post. He starts out with this statement about mass
>teaching in South Carolina,
>
>"There is no doubt that the NSA
>>did stop the process."
>
>No, there isn't. In fact as I recall we were just discussing the problems
that
>arose in South Carolina when this controversy erupted on the Board. I
myself
>had been involved in some of the mass teaching efforts during this period,
>although not the ones in South Carolina. The technique they tried to teach
us
>was to go up to someone on the street and start talking about the Baha'i
>teachings. We would mention a principle such as "equality of men and
>women." Then we would say "You believe in equality of men and women, don't
>you?" And we were supposed to nod our heads so they would nod their heads.
By
>the use of this techinique we would go through the Baha'i basics and then
fill
>out a declaration card for them and ask them to sign. It was the same
technique
>one generally uses to sale cars or vacum cleaners! We were told that when
we
>would go back to these people we might well find them hiding
>behind the door and we were also taught techiniques for what to do when
that
>happens.
>
>Now Dr. Cole has gone on record accusing the Baha'i Faith of being a cult,
yet
>he is critical of the Baha'i NSA for putting the skids on such cultish
>practices! He has also accused the NSA of exaggerating its membership roles
>when numbers of these do not participate in the community. Yet he objects
to
>the NSA stopping teaching projects that had declarants hiding behind the
doors
>rather than having to meet a Baha'i again! In California I was one of
>the few mass teachers that bothered to stay around for the "consolidation"
work
>and I can tell you there was very little to consolidate indeed. I had other
>friends who went pioneering to South Carolina to help consolidate. Some of
them
>became so disillusioned by what they saw there, they ended up leaving the
>Faith. To this day South Carolina has the lowest percentage of acitve
Baha'is
>relative to their overall numbers on paper.
>
>Juan writes:
>
>>Why exactly the NSA stopped the process is not entirely clear. Obviously,
>>the more conservative members of that body have tended to be very worried
>>about losing their tight control over local communities
>
>Notice how Dr. Cole phrases these two sentences. First he says it is "not
>entirely clear" why the NSA stopped the process but then he asserts
>categorically that "Obviously" they were "worried about losing their tight
>control over local communities." The only thing that is "obvious" to me is
that
>one of those assertions has to be false!
>
>But notice the implication of racism in how he words the rest of the
sentence:
>
>>the entry of
>>large numbers of poor, rural, largely illiterate Blacks challenged their
>>system of control mechanisms
>
>Juan goes on to say:
>
>>Eric Pierce reported that one prominent African-American believer active
in
>>the teaching work was convinced that it was stopped because of fears in
>>Wilmette that the community would be swamped by the newcomers and that
they
>>might in turn elect a new NSA.
>
>I see. And because one mass teacher, unhappy with the NSA decision to stop
the
>project speculates, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, that the
members of
>the NSA were doing this because they were afraid of losing their (mostly
>unpaid) jobs to the votes of a bunch of "poor, rural, largely illiterate
>Blacks" then it must be true! No responsible academic would give any
credence
>to something like this, let alone publish such unsubstantiated
>allegations in an academic journal!
>
>> I have lots of evidence that over the years
>>the NSA's more repressive actions have often been motivated by fears of
>>being unseated,
>
>No doubt "evidence" as solid as the one he just presented!
>
>But this statement of Dr. Cole's is quite interesting. He writes:
>
>>Dan Jordan told one friend of mine that in the mid-60s the NSA had voted
on
>>whether to punish a southern white Baha'i who refused to desegregate his
>>shop. The NSA decided to take away his administrative rights. But
>>Charlotte Linfoot had opposed this action. It seems to me incredible that
>>in 1970-71 Charlotte was suddenly just delighted with the prospect of the
>>influx of tens of thousands of poor, rural African-Americans (whom she had
>>been content to have suffer Jim Crow segregation at the hands of *Baha'i*
>>white shopkeepers on a few years before).
>
>Let's consider what is being said here. It is the mid-60's when the
controversy
>over segregation in the deep south is at its height. What other religion
would
>have even considered punishing its members for refusing to desegregate
their
>private businesses? Keep in mind, that to this day, churches are the most
>segregated institution in America! And the egregationist in this case,
despite
>one person's objections was punished. Again, what other religion
>would have done this? Help me out Mahdi! What would happen in Islam? I know
>what the penalty is for drunkness or slander; 80 lashes. I know what the
>penalty is for fornification; 100 lashes. Pray tell me, what is the
punishment
>in Islam for racism?
>Now we have one person on that NSA who objected to these sanctions, no
doubt
>feeling that punishment was not the best way to bring about the elimination
of
>prejudice in the Baha'i community. On the basis of that evidence, Dr. Cole
>would have us believe, that the NSA would not want to see a large influx of
>black people into the Baha'i community!
>
> Maneck has said that the NSA would
>>have been delighted to see the South Carolina converts show up at national
>>convention.
>
>Actually, I was thinking of District Conventions where the delegates to the
>National Covention are elected. To have dominated the National Convention
South
>Carolina would have had to be given a lot more districts!
>
> Can she cite even one contemporary document, or even an
>>interview with a principal, which would corroborate this unlikely
>>proposition?
>
>Gee, Dr. Cole we can ask those people who were serving on the NSA at the
time
>how they would have felt about a large number of enthusiasitcally active
new
>converts showing up for convention! I'm sure they would be happy to tell
us.
>:-)
>
> It is a typical characteristic of propaganda that baseless
>>allegations are put forward that seem contrary to common sense, which
their
>>authors hope will become plausible by virtue of the fallacy of authority
or
>>through constant repetition.
>
>NO KIDDING! Dr. Cole is giving us such a prime example of just that.
>
>But Dr. Cole continues his constant and baseless repetition of the charge
that
>they must have stopped the mass teaching because they were afraid of being
>voted off the NSA! To support this he writes:
>
>>Someone who receives $150,000
>>or more per annum in cash and perquisites will naturally be worried about
>>losing that income.
>
>As if *anyone* on the NSA in the early '70's got anywhere near that amount
of
>money! In fact at present I think the only person who comes even close is
>likely the Afro-American who serves as Secretary-General.
>
>I frankly do not know whether or not the American NSA made the right
decision
>in stopping the mass teaching. I know from my own experience with it that I
>myself had grave misgivings about the rightness of what were doing. It
might
>have been better to have allowed to run its course, I don't know. What I do
>know is that the NSA had legitimate reasons for being concerned. And to
suggest
>that they were motivated by racism or fear of not being re-elected
>is nothing but sheer slander.
>
>It should be clear to anyone by now who has been following these discussion
>that what happened between certain academics and the Baha'i administration
had
>little to do with scholarship *per se.* As the House of Justice wrote me on
>Feb. 8, 1998:
>
> "They sought to use the language, the occasions and the credibility of
>scholarly activity to lend a counterfeit authority to a private enterprise
>which was essentially ideological in nature and self-motivated in origin."
>
>They go on to say:
>
>"Your own familiarity with these same persons' behaviour will have provided
you
>with ample illustration of the violence being done by their public and
private
>statements to Baha'u'llah's teachings, which they profess to honour, and to
the
>cause of scholarship, which they profess to serve. We cannot separate
method
>from spirit and character."
>
>Indeed it has.
>
>warmest,
>
>Susan Maneck
>
>"Lay not aside the fear of God, O ye the learned of the world, and judge
>fairly"
>Gleanings, p. 98
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>warmest,
>
>Susan
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 9:31 AM
To: Juan Cole
Subject: Fw: fw Juan Cole on mass teaching & Maneck's AOL slander
FYI
-----Original Message-----
From: david dorkin <ddorkin@aye.net>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai
To: Smaneck <smaneck@aol.com>
Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: fw Juan Cole on mass teaching & Maneck's AOL slander
>Your analysis is difficult to follow; Cole spoke of what "the more
>conservative members of that body" could have been expected to desire
>which allows for a more nuanced interplay of competing social actors and
>factors. It is not at all evident that this is contradictory.
>
> COLE:
>> >Why exactly the NSA stopped the process is not entirely clear.
Obviously,
>> >the more conservative members of that body have tended to be very
worried
>> >about losing their tight control over local communities
>
>MANECK:
>> Notice how Dr. Cole phrases these two sentences. First he says it is "not
>> entirely clear" why the NSA stopped the process but then he asserts
>> categorically that "Obviously" they were "worried about losing their
tight
>> control over local communities." The only thing that is "obvious" to me
is that
>> one of those assertions has to be false!
>
>> But notice the implication of racism in how he words the rest of the
sentence:
>>
>> >the entry of
>> >large numbers of poor, rural, largely illiterate Blacks challenged their
>> >system of control mechanisms
>
>The implication of racism is not at all evident. No part of that
>statement is out of place in any sociological document.
>
>> Juan goes on to say:
>>
>> >Eric Pierce reported that one prominent African-American believer active
in
>> >the teaching work was convinced that it was stopped because of fears in
>> >Wilmette that the community would be swamped by the newcomers and that
they
>> >might in turn elect a new NSA.
>>
>> I see. And because one mass teacher, unhappy with the NSA decision to
stop the
>> project speculates, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, that the
members of
>> the NSA were doing this because they were afraid of losing their (mostly
>> unpaid) jobs to the votes of a bunch of "poor, rural, largely
illiterate
>> Blacks" then it must be true! No responsible academic would give any
credence
>> to something like this, let alone publish such unsubstantiated
>> allegations in an academic journal!
>
>
>If you mean to say that anecdotal evidence is inadmissable in general,
>you might have quite a few problems explaining Bahai texts and claims as
>well as many others.
>
>> > I have lots of evidence that over the years
>> >the NSA's more repressive actions have often been motivated by fears of
>> >being unseated,
>>
>> No doubt "evidence" as solid as the one he just presented!
>
>I would like to be referred to "evidence" concerning divine revelation,
>if you have a moment
>
>> But this statement of Dr. Cole's is quite interesting. He writes:
>>
>> >Dan Jordan told one friend of mine that in the mid-60s the NSA had voted
on
>> >whether to punish a southern white Baha'i who refused to desegregate his
>> >shop. The NSA decided to take away his administrative rights. But
>> >Charlotte Linfoot had opposed this action. It seems to me incredible
that
>> >in 1970-71 Charlotte was suddenly just delighted with the prospect of
the
>> >influx of tens of thousands of poor, rural African-Americans (whom she
had
>> >been content to have suffer Jim Crow segregation at the hands of
*Baha'i*
>> >white shopkeepers on a few years before).
>>
>> Let's consider what is being said here. It is the mid-60's when the
controversy
>> over segregation in the deep south is at its height. What other religion
would
>> have even considered punishing its members for refusing to desegregate
their
>> private businesses? Keep in mind, that to this day, churches are the most
>> segregated institution in America! And the egregationist in this case,
despite
>> one person's objections was punished. Again, what other religion
>> would have done this? Help me out Mahdi! What would happen in Islam? I
know
>> what the penalty is for drunkness or slander; 80 lashes. I know what the
>> penalty is for fornification; 100 lashes. Pray tell me, what is the
punishment
>> in Islam for racism?
>> Now we have one person on that NSA who objected to these sanctions, no
doubt
>> feeling that punishment was not the best way to bring about the
elimination of
>> prejudice in the Baha'i community. On the basis of that evidence, Dr.
Cole
>> would have us believe, that the NSA would not want to see a large influx
of
>> black people into the Baha'i community!
>
>I think a more nuanced view is being put forth here; the issue is one of
>organizational survival versus growth
>
>>
>> Maneck has said that the NSA would
>> >have been delighted to see the South Carolina converts show up at
national
>> >convention.
>>
>> Actually, I was thinking of District Conventions where the delegates to
the
>> National Covention are elected. To have dominated the National Convention
South
>> Carolina would have had to be given a lot more districts!
>>
>> Can she cite even one contemporary document, or even an
>> >interview with a principal, which would corroborate this unlikely
>> >proposition?
>>
>> Gee, Dr. Cole we can ask those people who were serving on the NSA at the
time
>> how they would have felt about a large number of enthusiasitcally active
new
>> converts showing up for convention! I'm sure they would be happy to tell
us.
>
>Will this now be considered to be more incontrovertable evidence in this
>face of competing explanations for why they might do so, easily
>obtainable from game theory or psychology?
>
>
>> > It is a typical characteristic of propaganda that baseless
>> >allegations are put forward that seem contrary to common sense, which
their
>> >authors hope will become plausible by virtue of the fallacy of authority
or
>> >through constant repetition.
>>
>> NO KIDDING! Dr. Cole is giving us such a prime example of just that.
>
>Cole is vastly outnumbered in point of fact; very little in the way of
>this position is available when contrasted with information made
>available by Bahais, as I have discovered while attempting to find
>sociological surveys on Bahais
>
> > But Dr. Cole continues his constant and baseless repetition of the
>charge that
>> they must have stopped the mass teaching because they were afraid of
being
>> voted off the NSA! To support this he writes:
>>
>> >Someone who receives $150,000
>> >or more per annum in cash and perquisites will naturally be worried
about
>> >losing that income.
>>
>> As if *anyone* on the NSA in the early '70's got anywhere near that
amount of
>> money! In fact at present I think the only person who comes even close is
>> likely the Afro-American who serves as Secretary-General.
>> I frankly do not know whether or not the American NSA made the right
decision
>> in stopping the mass teaching. I know from my own experience with it that
I
>> myself had grave misgivings about the rightness of what were doing. It
might
>> have been better to have allowed to run its course, I don't know. What I
do
>> know is that the NSA had legitimate reasons for being concerned. And to
suggest
>> that they were motivated by racism or fear of not being re-elected
>> is nothing but sheer slander.
>>
>> It should be clear to anyone by now who has been following these
discussion
>> that what happened between certain academics and the Baha'i
administration had
>> little to do with scholarship *per se.* As the House of Justice wrote me
on
>> Feb. 8, 1998:
>>
>> "They sought to use the language, the occasions and the credibility of
>> scholarly activity to lend a counterfeit authority to a private
enterprise
>> which was essentially ideological in nature and self-motivated in
origin."
>
>What ideological is to mean here is unclear to me. Please explain and
>perhaps we can discuss together epistemological differences as well as
>how one could theoretically disprove tautological contentions while the
>introduction of evidence or reasoning which might result in cognitive
>dissonance or theoretical revision to the believer is ex ante
>inadmissable
>
>Thank you
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: TRB
Roger Reini wrote in message <36a18369.44740702@news.newsguy.com>...
>On 16 Jan 1999 08:11:02 GMT, rmckin6046@aol.com (RMckin6046) wrote:
>
>>Good morning all!
>>
>>I was able to access talk.religion.bahai [TRB] this morning from the list
of
>>newsgroups on AOL. You know it was months after its creation before I
could
>>access ARB from AOL.
>>
>>God bless all of you and the new newsgroup.
>>
>>Richard
>
>A bogus version of TRB has been in circulation for a few months, and
>it was known to be on AOL. I don't believe that the official
>newsgroup control messages have gone out yet, so this may still be the
>bogus group.
>
>As of yesterday evening, Newsguy did not have t.r.b.
>
>
>Roger (rreini@wwnet.net)
>http://fp-www.wwnet.net/~rreini/
Roger's right, Richard. The legitimate talk.religion.bahai
has not yet been created by David Lawrence; maybe
within the week. In the meantime, you've posted to the
bogus one!
My, how complicated life can be....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 9:50 AM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Subject: soc.religion.bahai - brief quotations
Robert J. Pease, December 5, 1998:
"I support your efforts to expose SRB as a fundamentalist group."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb84.htm
Kent Johnson:
"It turns my stomach that they call themselves a Baha'i Group
while doing these things so obviously partisan and consciously
unjust."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb61.htm
Ron House:
"I think the following is a clear case of malicious
rejection of an article by the worst of the moderators of
soc.religion.bahai."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb53.htm
Timothy Mulligan:
"(Sigh) Fred, I'm beginning to think you're right about those
SRB moderators."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb59.htm
RobertNik:
"these guys are pompous arseholes IMHO."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb54.htm
Bruce Burrill:
"What are Baha'i afraid of?"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb60.htm
Zuteflute:
"Frankly I could not see anything in the letter I wrote which
would prompt someone to ask whether or not I am a Baha'i."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb50.htm
YU ZIR:
"But as an outsider, I can perhaps see the point Fred Glaysher
is making, and which point none of SRB's defenders seem to
address."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb46.htm
Matthew Cromer:
"The current moderators regulate the contents--posting articles
which they agree with...."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb47.htm
Kavosh Soltani, December 9, 1998:
"So many Bahais on these forums
have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb77.htm
Shakti3, December 4, 1998:
"Sorry to hear that you've been surpressed on srb. Your comments
were alway very "right on." Altho it does not surprise me one bit,
seeing the way these newsgroups operate."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Ex7.htm
Harold Shinsato:
"It seems like there is an oppression over the Baha'i Faith."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb33.htm
Steve Tomljenovic, December 3, 1998:
"The moderators are a bit overzealous at times. Since all the
controversy started, it has gotten worse."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb79.htm
Laeterna:
"To say I was flabberghasted at this type of "moderating" was
putting it mildly indeed."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored2.htm
Guy Macon"
"Please explain which portion of the charter the following
post violates."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/censored1.htm
Robin Peters:
"I think you're to be commended for your persistence in the
face of consistent censorship."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb43.htm
jgoldberg:
"I refuse to post on soc.religion.bahai because of the arbitrary and
mean-spirited manner of censorship practiced by the moderators. "
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb57.htm
Ruletherod, November 17, 1998:
"Too much damage has already been done in the name and to
the name of Baha'u'llah by right-wing administrative bullies,
linear-thinking apologists, and doctrinaire-fundamentalists. You
can't just blame it all on the critics."
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb76.htm
Many other similar messages may be found on my web site under
soc.religion.bahai censorship.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/srb.htm
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
On alt.religion.bahai and AOL, Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: McKenny Michael[SMTP:bn872@freenet.carleton.ca]
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 1999 10:57 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: TRB
Greetings, Frederick, from Ottawa.
Congratulations on the successful vote.
You have put an enormous amount of effort into this and you deserve
a tremendous amount of appreciation.
You have my sincerest top wishes that this newsgroup will astound
everyone in every beneficial way. May it have a remarkable and quite
pleasing influence.
May this find you very well, and may the future amaze us by how well
things turn out.
All the Best,
Michael
>
> Roger's right, Richard. The legitimate talk.religion.bahai
> has not yet been created by David Lawrence; maybe
> within the week. In the meantime, you've posted to the
> bogus one!
>
> My, how complicated life can be....
>
> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>
>
--
"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
(Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 4:33 PM
Subject: fw 2nd Juan Cole on mass teaching & Maneck's AOL slander
-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Cole <jrcole@umich.edu>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: fw Juan Cole on mass teaching & Maneck's AOL slander
>
>
>1) I have never said that the motive or even a motive of the NSA in
>closing down the mass teaching in the South in the early '70s was 'racism.'
> It can be alleged all anyone likes that I have said this, but it cannot
>be demonstrated, because I have not. I have simply reported that some
>African-Americans at the time feared that such considerations entered in,
>and I have specifically admitted that they may well have been wrong. It
>seems to me, given the NSA's record, that without any doubt whatsoever a
>kind of paternalism was involved.
>
>There is evidence that Charlotte Linfoot was consistently unsympathetic to
>Baha'i involvement in the civil rights movement from the lunch counter
>demonstrations of 1960 forward, and I am afraid the interviewing I've done
>with people who knew her leads me strongly to suspect that her quietism
>acted as a screen for discomfort with uppity Blacks. Whether this feeling
>entered into her vote on the South Carolina process, I am happy to admit I
>do not know. I am glad that it is now uncontested that the NSA did shut
>down the mass conversions, because only once that is established can there
>then be reasoned consultation on what the full range of motives for that
>was, and whether that was a good thing. I think you can imagine what
>Ruhiyyih Khanum thought about it.
>
>2) Bill Davis in one of his interrogations of the Dialogue editors in
>spring, 1988, specifically said that the NSA had been worried that 'A
>Modest Proposal' might come across to the delegates as a critique of the
>sitting NSA's record (enrollments had fallen off drastically and virtually
>no money was being put into teaching), and cost some of them election.
>Only the poor naifs who have never actually had anything serious to do with
>Wilmette are under the impression that no NSA member cares if he or she is
>reelected. Some of these elected officials are drawing substantial money
>out of the faith. The men all think they have a shot at getting elected to
>the UHJ, and moving up to salaries in the large six figures as well as
>enormous power in a community of 3 million. It is worries about being
>reelected that drives the poor things to be so repressive sometimes, which
>hurts the community generally, and the community if it were smart would
>find a way out of this bad situation.
>
>3) I have never called 'the Baha'i faith' a 'cult' globally. I rather
>like most Baha'is I have known, and I admire the values for which the
>Baha'i faith stands. I'd like to see it succeed better than it has. My
>definition of a cult is a religious organization that exercises undue
>control over adherents and that engages in deviant practices. The Baha'i
>faith is not deviant, though there is a certain amount of personal
>corruption among its officials. In some communities, and at some levels,
>the degree of control that officials attempt to gain over adherents is
>troubling to me. In particular, I believe that in an open society like the
>U.S., the practice of shunning is generally a cult marker (as you have it
>among Jehovah's Witnesses, e.g.). Thus, what I would say is that in some
>communities and among some officials there are cult-like behaviors among
>Baha'is, and that there is more such cult-like behavior in the Baha'i
>community than there is in the Episcopalian or Methodist or Unitarian
>Universalist communinities.
>
>4)
>
>>It should be clear to anyone by now who has been following these
discussion
>>that what happened between certain academics and the Baha'i administration
>>had little to do with scholarship *per se.*
>
>Our current discussion cannot in fact shed any light whatsoever on the
>issues that caused Haifa to launch false and outrageous heresy accusations
>against a number of Baha'i academics and intellectuals in April, 1996, for
>their email messages. (Such a tolerant, universal, loving, Baha'i-like
>action!) One of the cheap polemical tricks used by some people is to
>employ things I have said and stances I have taken since I was mysteriously
>and suddenly assaulted as ex post facto justifications for the assault.
>Some of Talisman@indiana.edu is up on the Web. Anyone who can read my
>messages there and conclude that I was a covenant breaker is just a sicko.
>Obviously, once the high administration revealed to me how weird they are,
>I went on to critique them more seriously on the basis of this new
>knowledge. But using these new critiques, by someone now an outsider, to
>justify the initial assault is like saying the victim of an attempted rape
>provoked the rape when she sprayed mace at her assailant.
>
>
>>As the House of Justice wrote me on
>>Feb. 8, 1998:
>>
>> "They sought to use the language, the occasions and the credibility of
>>scholarly activity to lend a counterfeit authority to a private enterprise
>>which was essentially ideological in nature and self-motivated in origin."
>
>This sentence means absolutely nothing. It is obscurantist gobbledegook
>written by someone very anti-intellectual, very malicious and not very
>bright. 'Unduly vague' doesn't even come close! If this were a charge
>against a criminal in a U.S. judicial proceeding it would be laughed out
>of court.
>
>I did not 'use' the language, 'occasions' (what does this mean--can't they
>learn *English*?), or 'credibility' (this also seems awkward) of academic
>scholarship. I *practiced* academic scholarship. I engaged my subject
>with the tools of analysis, contextualization, and the weighting of
>causality. I engaged in academic scholarship, in a sincere and frank
>search for the truth as I saw it (which I thought was what a Baha'i was
>*supposed* to do). I did this with regard to 19th century Iranian Baha'i
>history. I did it with regard to 20th century American. If I got
>something wrong, it would have been enough to present alternative evidence
>and analysis for my consideration. As an academic scholar, I am always
>open to the latter. Instead, I was presented with threats and demands I
>fall silent on pain of being shunned. How nice, gentle, loving, tolerant
>that was.
>
>What does it mean that this so-called 'counterfeit' authority was being
>lent to an enterprise that was 'self-motivated?' I was sending email
>messages to friends. How could that not be 'self-motivated?' Which of you
>reading this has sent email messages to friends about a subject of interest
>to you in a way that was not 'self-motivated?' I fear that the word
>'cult-like' leaps out from this phrase. Behavior cannot be
>'self-motivated' in the Baha'i faith? Everything has to come from Central
>Direction, a la the Bolsheviks?
>
>And how were my talisman@indiana.edu messages any more or less
>'ideological' than the messages of anyone else who posted there, including
>the UHJ itself, which certainly at any one time has a collective 'ideology'
>(even though it shouldn't, and this is not its prerogative)? I'll bet you
>our friends in Haifa couldn't even *define* ideology in a way that made any
>social science sense. The real problem was not 'ideology' but 'ideas.'
>And the fact is that a majority on the UHJ (or maybe even a minority--the
>institution doesn't act in a rationalized fashion) didn't *like* my ideas,
>and they didn't want me sharing them publicly.
>
>The problem is that my ideas, expressed as non-authoritative individual
>opinion, were none of their business. They are only authorized to
>legislate. They aren't historians, they aren't sociologists, and they
>aren't even theologians. Some of them are electrical engineers. If they
>had any sense whatsoever they would keep their opinions about things like
>professional history to themselves, because no one is interested in what
>some fundamentalist engineer thinks about history, regardless of what he's
>managed to get himself elected to. And because they couldn't debate my
>ideas, they took the creepy, lazy path and declared them heretical and
>tried to make them taboo. In doing this they only made themselves look
>ridiculous for all time. In a hundred years people will still be reading
>my book on Baha'u'llah. In a hundred years no one will have heard of any
>of the current House members.
>
>>They go on to say:
>>
>>"Your own familiarity with these same persons' behaviour will have
provided
>>you with ample illustration of the violence being done by their public and
>>private statements to Baha'u'llah's teachings,
>
>O.K. Somebody give me a concrete example of some 'behavior' of mine that
>did 'violence' to Baha'u'llah's teachings any time in the period August
>1972-April 1996. Anything at all. These Baha'i officials don't have the
>slightest idea what Baha'u'llah even stood for on most issues, and they
>reverse him whenever they find him inconvenient.
>
>>which they profess to honour,
>
>I did honor Baha'u'llah's teachings when I was a Baha'i. Someone should
>give me some evidence to the contrary. Some of the people these individuals
>in Haifa have promoted have been real sleazeballs, so who are they to stand
>in judgment of my profession of faith 1972-1996?
>
>>and to the cause of scholarship, which they profess to serve.
>
>I have spent my life in the cause of academic scholarship. I have never,
>ever, done violence to its methods, its integrity, or its findings. In
>fact, to agree to allow myself to be silenced or censored by the UHJ or NSA
>and to withhold from the public my research findings, as they insisted,
>would have been a very serious derogation of my professional duties and a
>betrayal of the public trust. These people don't have any respect for
>academic scholarship. They have never supported it in any way. The insist
>it be vetted (and therefore distorted and made dishonest). They have
>managed to throw out or alienate a majority of the Baha'i academics in
>Middle East studies who have dared actually pursue their profession and
>write something serious on Baha'i studies.
>
>>We cannot separate method from spirit and character."
>
>Again, the UHJ is not empowered to stand in judgment of the character of
>Baha'is. It is supposed to be leading Baha'is to build Mashriqu'l-Adhkars,
>according to `Abdul-Baha. It is supposed to be doing major
>philanthropical and charitable work, according to Shoghi Effendi. It is
>supposed to legislate laws. It can only sanction actual behavior, not
>sincere non-authoritative expressions of individual conscience. This is
>scriptural. In fact, the UHJ has become a center of tyranny, of
>authoritarianism, of censorship, of repression, of imposed superstition and
>dogma. It has almost completely betrayed everything the Baha'i holy
>figures stood for. And it could not do that if there weren't some *very*
>serious flaws in the character of its members. Everyone should please pray
>for them, and for me.
>
>
>cheers Juan Cole
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 4:39 PM
To: bn872@freenet.carleton.ca
Subject: Re: TRB
Thanks, Michael. You're one of the very few who have
said anything nice about it, as you might imagine....
-----Original Message-----
From: McKenny Michael <bn872@freenet.carleton.ca>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: TRB
>Greetings, Frederick, from Ottawa.
> Congratulations on the successful vote.
> You have put an enormous amount of effort into this and you deserve
>a tremendous amount of appreciation.
> You have my sincerest top wishes that this newsgroup will astound
>everyone in every beneficial way. May it have a remarkable and quite
>pleasing influence.
> May this find you very well, and may the future amaze us by how well
>things turn out.
> All the Best,
> Michael
>
>>
>> Roger's right, Richard. The legitimate talk.religion.bahai
>> has not yet been created by David Lawrence; maybe
>> within the week. In the meantime, you've posted to the
>> bogus one!
>>
>> My, how complicated life can be....
>>
>> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
> (Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 4:43 PM
To: Juan Cole
Subject: Fw: Mass Teaching in the '70's
For your amusement.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Smaneck <smaneck@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 3:37 PM
Subject: Mass Teaching in the '70's
>
>Dear friends,
>
>As I was thinking about the mass teaching that
>went on in the 70's I remembered a conversation
>I had with the late Borah Kavelin who was then
>serving on the Universal House of Justice.
>
>You see when I had been involved in mass
>teaching we often had deepenings in which it was
>stressed that this was the kind of teaching the
>House of Justice was calling for. We even
>believed that those Baha'is who did not support
>it were somehow less 'firm" in the Covenant than
>we were.(Oh, to be young again and imagine yone
>knows all about the Covenant!) Then came my
>experiences trying to consolidate which forced
>me to rethink what we were doing (although the
>methods I was taught bothered me even before
>that.) Yet I still had in my mind that these
>methods were what the House of Justice was
>endorsing and hence doubts arose within me about
>the House itself.
>
>Most of what I'm writing here I am taking
>directly out of my diary which I had written at
>the time. although I've added a few
>recollections which I hadn't written down.
>
>My pilgrimage was in 1978 when I was 22 and we
>met Mr. Kavelin in the Pilgrim's House. I raised
>the question of mass teaching there and
>expressed, in a voice that cracked, my own
>reservations that we were not respecting the
>integrity of the people we taught, that we
>seemed to be placing numerical goals over
>everything else. Someone said something about
>there not being enough consolidation but I
>described how those of us who dedicated
>ourselves to this task found ourselves with
>basically nothing to consolidate after hundreds
>of declarations.
>
>Mr. Kavelin carefully avoided saying whether the
>methods I was describing were right or wrong.
>But he said we must not become discouraged. We
>must have faith and confidence and trust in our
>Institutions. He said that the National
>Spiritual Assembly knew what was happening and
>was in contact with the World Centre. The
>Baha'is, he said, needed to teach with certitude
>and not out of desperation, then we would have
>results. When we are presented with a challenge
>we must strive to meet it, but not with
>desperation. If one thing doesn't work we should
>try something else with *faith and confidence.*
>
>After the meeting he seized my arm, held it very
>tightly and said to me very intently that I must
>decide for myself which way is right for me.
>"Don't be a puppet, Suzy. Don't be a follower,
>find your own way and become a leader, then you
>will see how to reach the hearts."
>
>warmest, Susan
>
>
>
>warmest,
>
>Susan
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
Dave Ratcliffe wrote in message <36a385c5.92318762@news.ptd.net>...
>
>Post a copy of it there yourself if you wish.
Actually, thanks for the suggestion. I'll send the RESULT
in to srb right away, just to be sure they receive it.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 4:56 PM
To: srb
Cc: billh@samoatelco.com
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
Dear Mr. Hyman:
Since I have not seen the RESULT appear on soc.religion.bahai,
I am taking the advice of a news.groupie and sending you myself
a copy of it. You may verify its authenticity on news.groups or
news.announce.newgroups.
I'm sure people on soc.religion.bahai, having read the RFD and
the CFV, would like to hear of the RESULT.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
--------------
RESULT
unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.
A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups line:
talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
discussion.
Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
question.
Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
newsgroup.
Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
END CHARTER.
DISTRIBUTION:
In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
Mailing list name: Talisman
Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
Mailing list name: h-Bahai
Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
Mailing list name: bahai-faith
Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
alt.religion
soc.religion.eastern
soc.religion.gnosis
soc.religion.hindu
soc.religion.paganism
soc.religion.quaker
soc.religion.unitarian-univ
talk.religion.buddhism
talk.religion.newage
talk.philosophy.humanism
talk.philosophy.misc
uk.religion.interfaith
uk.religion.misc
uk.religion.other-faiths
talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
Voted YES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
Garner
johnn#mpx.com.au John
New
mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
Clark
house#usq.edu.au Ron
House
jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
Marangella
ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
House
billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
Brewer
sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
Sugimoto
crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
Leech
shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
Shaheedi
trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
Meherally
zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
Zarepour.
narayan123#123india.com Kanva
Narayan
tierney#alloymail.com Sal
Tierney
hanv#angelfire.com Haq
Hanvey
AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
Ali
BRaynor781#aol.com
CRust60001#aol.com
Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
Glaysher
HANI72#aol.com Hani
Ayyad
Jimo3#aol.com Jim
Overmyer
JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
Hamilton
KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
Haines
Macho786#aol.com Maaz
Khan
Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
Lee
PParvin#aol.com
RayHanania#aol.com John
Doe
RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
Nikjoo
SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
Parent.
Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
(shaksway)
Smastr#aol.com Sam
Masters
amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
Elmasri
macleod#beloved.com John
MacLeod
alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
Dawson
kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
Kindervater
tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
Buckland
sandraa#ccnmail.com S.
A.
habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
Abu-Hantash
markow#chickmail.com Sassy
Markow
Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
Laudrigan
jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
Goldberg
kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
Family
eridani#databasix.com
Belinda
booda#datasync.com Martin H.
Booda
guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
Macon)
vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
Minai
carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
Carducci
UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
Ungarino
john_brownston#educastmail.com John
Brownston
mercado959#email.com Jennifer
Mercado
edwardiii#england.com Edward
III
stomljen#enteract.com Steve
Tomljenovic
rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
Roth
alshawa#erols.com Amer
Alshawa
shaukat#erols.com Khalid
Shaukat
tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
Tutstone
lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
Lopez
umaraadil#excite.com
Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
Abdullah
gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
Kerley
david#farrar.com David
Farrar
lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
Vendome
wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
Wilson
runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
Runchey
dave#frackit.com Dave
Ratcliffe
howie#giantsfan.com Ron
Howard
kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
Kendrick
BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
Hoyt
bjv#herbison.com B.J.
Herbison
maher#home.com Maher
Barakat
c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
Nunez
burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
Frade-Burnett
shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
Husain
rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
Detweiler
rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
Shane
goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
Goodlett
takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
Takriti
hopegartner#iname.com Alice
Hopegartner
matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
Cromer
ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
Amirazodi
muntada#inix.com
Rashid
jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
DeVoto
kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
Unanda
samorgan#java-man.com
<FONT =
r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
Rusan
Aansari#dc.jones.com
Aamir=20
o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
Kordy
Christensen#kansascity.com Len
Christensen
henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
Wadsworth
todomanana#latino.com Miguel
Hernandez
David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
Vessell
sponseller#lycosmail.com David
Sponseller
EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
Badalian
ogreen#mailcity.com
Ogreen
jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
Jensen
hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
Hoffman
cipher#mindspring.com
Cipher
unrein#cig.mot.com W.
Sanders-Unrein
billmc#email.msn.com Bill
McJohn
chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
followed
olav#viking.mv.com Olav
Nieuwejaar
hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
Shambashi
marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
Muljadi
rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
Little
sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
Sutherland
mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
Holmes
dmarasco#npsnet.com David
Marasco
cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
Gruber
jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
Tidwell
rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
Carreiro
ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
Ellenberg
E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
Adams
MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
Raflin
robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
Warren
timken#prontomail.com Ruth
Timken
Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
Ulhaque
jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
Meller
griffin#rednecks.com Bud
Griffin
chvatel#rotfl.com David
Chvatel
maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
Maruyama
harold#shinsato.com Harold
Shinsato
imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
Mufti
pan#syix.com
Pan
s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
Humes
josephb#tezcat.com Joe
Bernstein
charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
<BR>
lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
<BR>
AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
Riecker
smahmud#uop.com Shahid
Mahmud
lingel#email.women.com Sam
Lingel
haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
Haldi
arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
Tajarobi
galaxy001#yahoo.com
j.s.
kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
Krupowicz
nimans#yahoo.com Niman
Shukairy
padidehjan#yahoo.com
PadidehjAn
uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
Uhler
kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
Akhtar
vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
erle
indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
Poerwanto
cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
Stone
nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
McNelly
hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
Fung
jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
Deutsch
jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
Dresner
jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
Walbridge
moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
Alatovic
osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
Osborn
akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
Akhtar
daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
Daas
wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
Khan
slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
Smith
kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
Kopetsky
DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
Ajami
fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
Baker
fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
Baker
ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
Shaikh
nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
Saleh
jrcole#umich.edu Juan
Cole
nizam#umich.edu Nizam
Arain
harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
Harinath
hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
Hougen
whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
Whitling
dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
Bowie
aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
Abd-Allah
endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
Kusumo
malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
Alo
ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
Doe
pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
Johnson
aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
Ahmed
nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
Ali
rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
Rufinus
Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
Wolf
vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
Saarinen
bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
McEwan.
nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
Mastrakoulis
khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
Yussof
rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
rahman
sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
Truto
mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
Boyer=20
davetayl#concentric.net David
Taylor
islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
Ahmed</FONT>
booko#earthlink.net Sharon
Bouchard
oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
King
ljmoore#freespace.net
LarryMoore
sas#frontiernet.net
Stuart S
baird#gate.net Baird
Stafford
sinanju#gateway.net John
Noland
lightspring#jps.net Thomas
Spellman
rreini#mediaone.net Roger
Reini
peterry#megalink.net
Peter=20
bmathieu#micron.net Brent
Mathieu
EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
Pierce
jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
Tymchuk
r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
Marsou
RPittman#postmark.net Richard
Pittman
trhan#serv.net Teri
Rhan
alhadid#SoftHome.net
Muhammad=20
m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
Madansky
ayloush#usa.net Hussam
Ayloush
ceo4life#usa.net Harry
Clinkhammer
Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
Cos
tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
Carter
emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
Jackson
kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
Forrest
irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
Rempt
forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
Marshall
iio#iio.org Islamic Information
Office
irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
Irshad
peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
Wright
barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
Barthelmes
andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
Gierth
neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
kelley
Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
Chambers
SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
SamTHEMan
Voted NO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
Mansouri
dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
Steyaert
carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
Bowie
towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
Towfiq
AErfani#aol.com
Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
Jenkins
Mac0000013#aol.com
Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
Mayerovitch
kimdv#best.com Kim
DeVaughn
stainles#bga.com Dwight
Brown
david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
Ritscher
r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
Butson
lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
Smith
camm#enhanced.com Camm
Maguire
caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
R.)
wcol#erols.com William
Collins
tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
Hodges
aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
Williams
bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
Rosenbaum
fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
Fazlollahi
rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
McClendon
screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
Banshee
swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
Tague
jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
Jam
nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
Myers
shohre#itis.com Shohreh
Mansouri
bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
Limber
lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
Polk
palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
Blanford
djull#mindspring.com David
Jull
slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
McCoy
bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
Walker
chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
Ebenezer
dc#panix.com David W.
Crawford
persia#persia.com Robert
Moldenhauer
Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
Allan
billh#samoatelco.com Bill
Hyman
doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
O'Brien
manialip#wowmail.com Kate
Sparks
francis_uy#yahoo.com F
Uy
Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
Uthke
naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
Weisgerber
cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
Nelson
aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
Aull
rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
Miller
kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
Kohli
helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
Oney
cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
Polk
rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
Borseth
ellis#ftel.net Rick
Ellis
vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
Dura
Scarecro#ime.net Tim
Griffin
jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
Cornell
verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
Verbrugh
okoboji#prodigy.net
Loriann=20
mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
Badii-Azandahi
scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
Rule
tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
Richards
srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
Mawhinney
merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
Rees
Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
Sorenson
leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
Towfigh
Abstained
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
Gennario
chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
Zimmerman
tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
Roshan-Zamir
neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
Crellin
schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
Schuette
rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
Troxel
Invalid ballots
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
Afrashteh
! Disqualified
webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
Abdullah
! Ineligible address
ALTAFH#aol.com
! No vote statement in message
MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
Boyd
! No vote statement in message
LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
(1.8c)
! No vote statement in message
lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
Hollinger
! No vote statement in message
smeanver#tm.net.my
smeanver
! No vote statement in message
mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
Bob/Zannie
! No vote statement in message
To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
following command:
sed -e 's/#/@/g'
--
Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 4:58 PM
Subject: To SRB & Bill Hyman (Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63)
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: srb <srb-mods@bcca.org>
Cc: billh@samoatelco.com <billh@samoatelco.com>
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 3:56 PM
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
>Dear Mr. Hyman:
>
>Since I have not seen the RESULT appear on soc.religion.bahai,
>I am taking the advice of a news.groupie and sending you myself
>a copy of it. You may verify its authenticity on news.groups or
>news.announce.newgroups.
>
>I'm sure people on soc.religion.bahai, having read the RFD and
>the CFV, would like to hear of the RESULT.
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>--------------
> RESULT
> unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>
>There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
>votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
>
>For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
>(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
>than NO votes.
>
>A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
>serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
>moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
>thereafter.
>
>Newsgroups line:
>talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
>
>Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
>
>This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>
>Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
>Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
>Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>
>RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
>
>The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
>open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
>the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
>
>The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
>than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
>will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
>opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
>less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
>many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
>to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
>
>CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
>
>All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
>teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
>discussion.
>
>Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
>accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
>any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
>criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
>their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
>questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
>question.
>
>Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
>newsgroup.
>
>Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
>start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
>articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
>
>The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
>prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
>and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
>prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
>HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
>
>Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
>are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
>cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
>
>END CHARTER.
>
>
>DISTRIBUTION:
>
>In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
>and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
>
>Mailing list name: Talisman
>Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
>Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
>Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
>Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
>
>Mailing list name: h-Bahai
>Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
>Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: bahai-faith
>Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
>Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
>
>alt.religion
>soc.religion.eastern
>soc.religion.gnosis
>soc.religion.hindu
>soc.religion.paganism
>soc.religion.quaker
>soc.religion.unitarian-univ
>talk.religion.buddhism
>talk.religion.newage
>talk.philosophy.humanism
>talk.philosophy.misc
>uk.religion.interfaith
>uk.religion.misc
>uk.religion.other-faiths
>
>
>
>talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
>
>Voted YES
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
>Garner
>johnn#mpx.com.au John
>New
>mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
>Clark
>house#usq.edu.au Ron
>House
>jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
>Marangella
>ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
>House
>billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
>Brewer
>sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
>Sugimoto
>crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
>Leech
>shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
>Shaheedi
>trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
>Meherally
>zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
>Zarepour.
>narayan123#123india.com Kanva
>Narayan
>tierney#alloymail.com Sal
>Tierney
>hanv#angelfire.com Haq
>Hanvey
>AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
>Ali
>BRaynor781#aol.com
>CRust60001#aol.com
>Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
>Glaysher
>HANI72#aol.com Hani
>Ayyad
>Jimo3#aol.com Jim
>Overmyer
>JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
>Hamilton
>KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
>Haines
>Macho786#aol.com Maaz
>Khan
>Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
>Lee
>PParvin#aol.com
>RayHanania#aol.com John
>Doe
>RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
>Nikjoo
>SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
>Parent.
>Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
>(shaksway)
>Smastr#aol.com Sam
>Masters
>amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
>Elmasri
>macleod#beloved.com John
>MacLeod
>alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
>Dawson
>kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
>Kindervater
>tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
>Buckland
>sandraa#ccnmail.com
S.
>A.
>habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
>Abu-Hantash
>markow#chickmail.com Sassy
>Markow
>Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
>Laudrigan
>jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
>Goldberg
>kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
>Family
>eridani#databasix.com
>Belinda
>booda#datasync.com Martin H.
>Booda
>guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
>Macon)
>vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
>Minai
>carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
>Carducci
>UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
>Ungarino
>john_brownston#educastmail.com John
>Brownston
>mercado959#email.com Jennifer
>Mercado
>edwardiii#england.com Edward
>III
>stomljen#enteract.com Steve
>Tomljenovic
>rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
>Roth
>alshawa#erols.com Amer
>Alshawa
>shaukat#erols.com Khalid
>Shaukat
>tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
>Tutstone
>lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
>Lopez
>umaraadil#excite.com
> Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
>Abdullah
>gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
>Kerley
>david#farrar.com David
>Farrar
>lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
>Vendome
>wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
>Wilson
>runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
>Runchey
>dave#frackit.com Dave
>Ratcliffe
>howie#giantsfan.com Ron
>Howard
>kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
>Kendrick
>BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
>Hoyt
>bjv#herbison.com B.J.
>Herbison
>maher#home.com Maher
>Barakat
>c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
>Nunez
>burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
>Frade-Burnett
>shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
>Husain
>rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
>Detweiler
>rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
>Shane
>goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
>Goodlett
>takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
>Takriti
>hopegartner#iname.com Alice
>Hopegartner
>matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
>Cromer
>ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
>Amirazodi
>muntada#inix.com
>Rashid
>jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
>DeVoto
>kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
>Unanda
>samorgan#java-man.com
><FONT =
>r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
>Rusan
>Aansari#dc.jones.com
>Aamir=20
>o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
>Kordy
>Christensen#kansascity.com Len
>Christensen
>henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
>Wadsworth
>todomanana#latino.com Miguel
>Hernandez
>David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
>Vessell
>sponseller#lycosmail.com David
>Sponseller
>EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
>Badalian
>ogreen#mailcity.com
>Ogreen
>jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
>Jensen
>hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
>Hoffman
>cipher#mindspring.com
>Cipher
>unrein#cig.mot.com W.
>Sanders-Unrein
>billmc#email.msn.com Bill
>McJohn
>chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
>followed
>olav#viking.mv.com Olav
>Nieuwejaar
>hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
>Shambashi
>marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
>Muljadi
>rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
>Little
>sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
>Sutherland
>mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
>Holmes
>dmarasco#npsnet.com David
>Marasco
>cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
>Gruber
>jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
>Tidwell
>rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
>Carreiro
>ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
>Ellenberg
>E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
>Adams
>MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
>Raflin
>robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
>Warren
>timken#prontomail.com Ruth
>Timken
>Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
>Ulhaque
>jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
>Meller
>griffin#rednecks.com Bud
>Griffin
>chvatel#rotfl.com David
>Chvatel
>maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
>Maruyama
>harold#shinsato.com Harold
>Shinsato
>imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
>Mufti
>pan#syix.com
>Pan
>s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
>Humes
>josephb#tezcat.com Joe
>Bernstein
>charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
><BR>
>lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
><BR>
>AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
>Riecker
>smahmud#uop.com Shahid
>Mahmud
>lingel#email.women.com Sam
>Lingel
>haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
>Haldi
>arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
>Tajarobi
>galaxy001#yahoo.com
>j.s.
>kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
>Krupowicz
>nimans#yahoo.com Niman
>Shukairy
>padidehjan#yahoo.com
>PadidehjAn
>uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
>Uhler
>kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
>Akhtar
>vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
>erle
>indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
>Poerwanto
>cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
>Stone
>nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
>McNelly
>hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
>Fung
>jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
>Deutsch
>jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
>Dresner
>jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
>Walbridge
>moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
>Alatovic
>osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
>Osborn
>akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
>Akhtar
>daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
>Daas
>wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
>Khan
>slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
>Smith
>kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
>Kopetsky
>DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
>Ajami
>fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
>Baker
>fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
>Baker
>ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
>Shaikh
>nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
>Saleh
>jrcole#umich.edu Juan
>Cole
>nizam#umich.edu Nizam
>Arain
>harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
>Harinath
>hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
>Hougen
>whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
>Whitling
>dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
>Bowie
>aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
>Abd-Allah
>endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
>Kusumo
>malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
>Alo
>ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
>Doe
>pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
>Johnson
>aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
>Ahmed
>nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
>Ali
>rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
>Rufinus
>Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
>Wolf
>vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
>Saarinen
>bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
>McEwan.
>nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
>Mastrakoulis
>khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
>Yussof
>rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
>rahman
>sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
>Truto
>mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
>Boyer=20
>davetayl#concentric.net David
>Taylor
>islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
>Ahmed</FONT>
>booko#earthlink.net Sharon
>Bouchard
>oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
>King
>ljmoore#freespace.net
>LarryMoore
>sas#frontiernet.net
>Stuart S
>baird#gate.net Baird
>Stafford
>sinanju#gateway.net John
>Noland
>lightspring#jps.net Thomas
>Spellman
>rreini#mediaone.net Roger
>Reini
>peterry#megalink.net
>Peter=20
>bmathieu#micron.net Brent
>Mathieu
>EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
>Pierce
>jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
>Tymchuk
>r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
>Marsou
>RPittman#postmark.net Richard
>Pittman
>trhan#serv.net Teri
>Rhan
>alhadid#SoftHome.net
>Muhammad=20
>m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
>Madansky
>ayloush#usa.net Hussam
>Ayloush
>ceo4life#usa.net Harry
>Clinkhammer
>Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
>Cos
>tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
>Carter
>emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
>Jackson
>kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
>Forrest
>irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
>Rempt
>forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
>Marshall
>iio#iio.org Islamic Information
>Office
>irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
>Irshad
>peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
>Wright
>barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
>Barthelmes
>andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
>Gierth
>neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
>kelley
>Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
>Chambers
>SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
>SamTHEMan
>
>Voted NO
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
>Mansouri
>dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
>Steyaert
>carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
>Bowie
>towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
>Towfiq
>AErfani#aol.com
>Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
>Jenkins
>Mac0000013#aol.com
>Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
>Mayerovitch
>kimdv#best.com Kim
>DeVaughn
>stainles#bga.com Dwight
>Brown
>david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
>Ritscher
>r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
>Butson
>lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
>Smith
>camm#enhanced.com Camm
>Maguire
>caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
>R.)
>wcol#erols.com William
>Collins
>tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
>Hodges
>aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
>Williams
>bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
>Rosenbaum
>fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
>Fazlollahi
>rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
>McClendon
>screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
>Banshee
>swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
>Tague
>jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
>Jam
>nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
>Myers
>shohre#itis.com Shohreh
>Mansouri
>bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
>Limber
>lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
>Polk
>palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
>Blanford
>djull#mindspring.com David
>Jull
>slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
>McCoy
>bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
>Walker
>chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
>Ebenezer
>dc#panix.com David W.
>Crawford
>persia#persia.com Robert
>Moldenhauer
>Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
>Allan
>billh#samoatelco.com Bill
>Hyman
>doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
>O'Brien
>manialip#wowmail.com Kate
>Sparks
>francis_uy#yahoo.com
F
>Uy
>Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
>Uthke
>naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
>Weisgerber
>cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
>Nelson
>aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
>Aull
>rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
>Miller
>kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
>Kohli
>helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
>Oney
>cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
>Polk
>rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
>Borseth
>ellis#ftel.net Rick
>Ellis
>vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
>Dura
>Scarecro#ime.net Tim
>Griffin
>jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
>Cornell
>verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
>Verbrugh
>okoboji#prodigy.net
>Loriann=20
>mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
>Badii-Azandahi
>scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
>NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
>Rule
>tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
>Richards
>srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
>Mawhinney
>merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
>Rees
>Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
>Sorenson
>leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
>Towfigh
>
>Abstained
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
>Gennario
>chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
>Zimmerman
>tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
>Roshan-Zamir
>neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
>Crellin
>schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
>Schuette
>rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
>Troxel
>
>Invalid ballots
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
>Afrashteh
> ! Disqualified
>webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
>Abdullah
> ! Ineligible address
>ALTAFH#aol.com
> ! No vote statement in message
>MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
>Boyd
> ! No vote statement in message
>LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
>(1.8c)
> ! No vote statement in message
>lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
>Hollinger
> ! No vote statement in message
>smeanver#tm.net.my
>smeanver
> ! No vote statement in message
>mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
>Bob/Zannie
> ! No vote statement in message
>
>To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
>following command:
>
> sed -e 's/#/@/g'
>
>--
>Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 5:03 PM
To: K. Paul Johnson
Subject: Maneck aplogizes?
Subject: Re: Paul Johnson on Maneck's slander
Date: 1/16/1999 5:05 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Smaneck
Message-id: <19990116170503.26738.00003246@ng-cg1.aol.com>
Dear friends,
I have continued the discussion of the Gnosis article with Mr. Paul Johnson
on another list. I appears there were a number of misunderstandings. Besides
being upset with my characterization of his religious background, Mr.
Johnson believed I had compared his article to the National Enquirer and
this prompted him to accuse me of backbiting. In fact I was comparing the
National Enquirer to the discussions of community affairs that had gone on
on
Talisman, an assessment to which Mr. Johnson told me he agrees. He has since
apologized to me. I would like to apologize to Mr. Johnson as well if I have
misunderstood or misrepresented his spiritual journey in any way.
warmest,
Susan Maneck
"Lay not aside the fear of God, O ye the learned of the world, and judge
fairly"
Gleanings, p. 98
----------
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman)[SMTP:billh@samoatelco.com]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 3:16 PM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Cc: srb
Subject: FW: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
Dear Mr. Glaysher:
Congratulations. Persistence pays off.
I am aware of the result of the TRB vote as one of the moderating team
forwarded it to the moderators from another forum, for their information.
The reason that the result has not been posted to soc.religion.bahai is that
it has not yet been received as a submission for posting. The address
bahai-faith@egroups.com is unknown to me.
If you would care to submit it I will post it. The address for submissions
is:
bahai-faith@bcca.org. I suggest that you do not include the charter as this
was already posted with the CFV and, as Baha'is believe in secret ballots, I
will take posting the names of individual voters under advisement with the
other moderators.
Our present policy is that only names and return addresses can be present in
submitters' signatures.
Bill Hyman
co-moderator
soc.religion.bahai
----------
From: "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: "srb" <srb-mods@bcca.org>
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:56:07 -0500
Dear Mr. Hyman:
Since I have not seen the RESULT appear on soc.religion.bahai,
I am taking the advice of a news.groupie and sending you myself
a copy of it. You may verify its authenticity on news.groups or
news.announce.newgroups.
I'm sure people on soc.religion.bahai, having read the RFD and
the CFV, would like to hear of the RESULT.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
--------------
RESULT
unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.
A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups line:
talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
discussion.
Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
question.
Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
newsgroup.
Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
END CHARTER.
DISTRIBUTION:
In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
Mailing list name: Talisman
Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
Mailing list name: h-Bahai
Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
Mailing list name: bahai-faith
Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
alt.religion
soc.religion.eastern
soc.religion.gnosis
soc.religion.hindu
soc.religion.paganism
soc.religion.quaker
soc.religion.unitarian-univ
talk.religion.buddhism
talk.religion.newage
talk.philosophy.humanism
talk.philosophy.misc
uk.religion.interfaith
uk.religion.misc
uk.religion.other-faiths
talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
Voted YES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
Garner
johnn#mpx.com.au John
New
mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
Clark
house#usq.edu.au Ron
House
jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
Marangella
ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
House
billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
Brewer
sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
Sugimoto
crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
Leech
shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
Shaheedi
trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
Meherally
zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
Zarepour.
narayan123#123india.com Kanva
Narayan
tierney#alloymail.com Sal
Tierney
hanv#angelfire.com Haq
Hanvey
AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
Ali
BRaynor781#aol.com
CRust60001#aol.com
Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
Glaysher
HANI72#aol.com Hani
Ayyad
Jimo3#aol.com Jim
Overmyer
JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
Hamilton
KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
Haines
Macho786#aol.com Maaz
Khan
Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
Lee
PParvin#aol.com
RayHanania#aol.com John
Doe
RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
Nikjoo
SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
Parent.
Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
(shaksway)
Smastr#aol.com Sam
Masters
amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
Elmasri
macleod#beloved.com John
MacLeod
alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
Dawson
kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
Kindervater
tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
Buckland
sandraa#ccnmail.com S.
A.
habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
Abu-Hantash
markow#chickmail.com Sassy
Markow
Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
Laudrigan
jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
Goldberg
kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
Family
eridani#databasix.com
Belinda
booda#datasync.com Martin H.
Booda
guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
Macon)
vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
Minai
carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
Carducci
UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
Ungarino
john_brownston#educastmail.com John
Brownston
mercado959#email.com Jennifer
Mercado
edwardiii#england.com Edward
III
stomljen#enteract.com Steve
Tomljenovic
rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
Roth
alshawa#erols.com Amer
Alshawa
shaukat#erols.com Khalid
Shaukat
tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
Tutstone
lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
Lopez
umaraadil#excite.com
Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
Abdullah
gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
Kerley
david#farrar.com David
Farrar
lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
Vendome
wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
Wilson
runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
Runchey
dave#frackit.com Dave
Ratcliffe
howie#giantsfan.com Ron
Howard
kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
Kendrick
BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
Hoyt
bjv#herbison.com B.J.
Herbison
maher#home.com Maher
Barakat
c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
Nunez
burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
Frade-Burnett
shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
Husain
rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
Detweiler
rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
Shane
goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
Goodlett
takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
Takriti
hopegartner#iname.com Alice
Hopegartner
matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
Cromer
ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
Amirazodi
muntada#inix.com
Rashid
jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
DeVoto
kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
Unanda
samorgan#java-man.com
<FONT =
r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
Rusan
Aansari#dc.jones.com
Aamir=20
o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
Kordy
Christensen#kansascity.com Len
Christensen
henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
Wadsworth
todomanana#latino.com Miguel
Hernandez
David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
Vessell
sponseller#lycosmail.com David
Sponseller
EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
Badalian
ogreen#mailcity.com
Ogreen
jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
Jensen
hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
Hoffman
cipher#mindspring.com
Cipher
unrein#cig.mot.com W.
Sanders-Unrein
billmc#email.msn.com Bill
McJohn
chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
followed
olav#viking.mv.com Olav
Nieuwejaar
hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
Shambashi
marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
Muljadi
rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
Little
sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
Sutherland
mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
Holmes
dmarasco#npsnet.com David
Marasco
cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
Gruber
jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
Tidwell
rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
Carreiro
ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
Ellenberg
E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
Adams
MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
Raflin
robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
Warren
timken#prontomail.com Ruth
Timken
Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
Ulhaque
jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
Meller
griffin#rednecks.com Bud
Griffin
chvatel#rotfl.com David
Chvatel
maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
Maruyama
harold#shinsato.com Harold
Shinsato
imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
Mufti
pan#syix.com
Pan
s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
Humes
josephb#tezcat.com Joe
Bernstein
charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
<BR>
lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
<BR>
AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
Riecker
smahmud#uop.com Shahid
Mahmud
lingel#email.women.com Sam
Lingel
haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
Haldi
arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
Tajarobi
galaxy001#yahoo.com
j.s.
kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
Krupowicz
nimans#yahoo.com Niman
Shukairy
padidehjan#yahoo.com
PadidehjAn
uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
Uhler
kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
Akhtar
vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
erle
indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
Poerwanto
cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
Stone
nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
McNelly
hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
Fung
jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
Deutsch
jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
Dresner
jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
Walbridge
moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
Alatovic
osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
Osborn
akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
Akhtar
daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
Daas
wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
Khan
slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
Smith
kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
Kopetsky
DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
Ajami
fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
Baker
fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
Baker
ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
Shaikh
nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
Saleh
jrcole#umich.edu Juan
Cole
nizam#umich.edu Nizam
Arain
harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
Harinath
hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
Hougen
whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
Whitling
dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
Bowie
aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
Abd-Allah
endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
Kusumo
malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
Alo
ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
Doe
pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
Johnson
aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
Ahmed
nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
Ali
rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
Rufinus
Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
Wolf
vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
Saarinen
bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
McEwan.
nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
Mastrakoulis
khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
Yussof
rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
rahman
sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
Truto
mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
Boyer=20
davetayl#concentric.net David
Taylor
islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
Ahmed</FONT>
booko#earthlink.net Sharon
Bouchard
oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
King
ljmoore#freespace.net
LarryMoore
sas#frontiernet.net
Stuart S
baird#gate.net Baird
Stafford
sinanju#gateway.net John
Noland
lightspring#jps.net Thomas
Spellman
rreini#mediaone.net Roger
Reini
peterry#megalink.net
Peter=20
bmathieu#micron.net Brent
Mathieu
EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
Pierce
jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
Tymchuk
r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
Marsou
RPittman#postmark.net Richard
Pittman
trhan#serv.net Teri
Rhan
alhadid#SoftHome.net
Muhammad=20
m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
Madansky
ayloush#usa.net Hussam
Ayloush
ceo4life#usa.net Harry
Clinkhammer
Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
Cos
tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
Carter
emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
Jackson
kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
Forrest
irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
Rempt
forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
Marshall
iio#iio.org Islamic Information
Office
irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
Irshad
peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
Wright
barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
Barthelmes
andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
Gierth
neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
kelley
Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
Chambers
SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
SamTHEMan
Voted NO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
Mansouri
dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
Steyaert
carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
Bowie
towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
Towfiq
AErfani#aol.com
Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
Jenkins
Mac0000013#aol.com
Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
Mayerovitch
kimdv#best.com Kim
DeVaughn
stainles#bga.com Dwight
Brown
david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
Ritscher
r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
Butson
lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
Smith
camm#enhanced.com Camm
Maguire
caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
R.)
wcol#erols.com William
Collins
tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
Hodges
aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
Williams
bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
Rosenbaum
fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
Fazlollahi
rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
McClendon
screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
Banshee
swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
Tague
jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
Jam
nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
Myers
shohre#itis.com Shohreh
Mansouri
bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
Limber
lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
Polk
palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
Blanford
djull#mindspring.com David
Jull
slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
McCoy
bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
Walker
chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
Ebenezer
dc#panix.com David W.
Crawford
persia#persia.com Robert
Moldenhauer
Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
Allan
billh#samoatelco.com Bill
Hyman
doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
O'Brien
manialip#wowmail.com Kate
Sparks
francis_uy#yahoo.com F
Uy
Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
Uthke
naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
Weisgerber
cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
Nelson
aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
Aull
rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
Miller
kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
Kohli
helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
Oney
cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
Polk
rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
Borseth
ellis#ftel.net Rick
Ellis
vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
Dura
Scarecro#ime.net Tim
Griffin
jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
Cornell
verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
Verbrugh
okoboji#prodigy.net
Loriann=20
mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
Badii-Azandahi
scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
Rule
tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
Richards
srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
Mawhinney
merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
Rees
Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
Sorenson
leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
Towfigh
Abstained
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
Gennario
chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
Zimmerman
tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
Roshan-Zamir
neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
Crellin
schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
Schuette
rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
Troxel
Invalid ballots
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
Afrashteh
! Disqualified
webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
Abdullah
! Ineligible address
ALTAFH#aol.com
! No vote statement in message
MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
Boyd
! No vote statement in message
LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
(1.8c)
! No vote statement in message
lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
Hollinger
! No vote statement in message
smeanver#tm.net.my
smeanver
! No vote statement in message
mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
Bob/Zannie
! No vote statement in message
To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
following command:
sed -e 's/#/@/g'
--
Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
----------
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman)[SMTP:billh@samoatelco.com]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 7:18 PM
To: dave@dogwood.com
Cc: srb
Subject: FW: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
Dear Mr. Cornejo:
I have been forwarded the results of the CFV for talk.religion.bahai, by Mr.
Glaysher, one of the proponents. I have no problem with posting the results,
but query posting the Rationale and the Charter, which have already been
posted on srb, but were included with the results. I consider that posting
how individuals voted is also questionable unless each voter's permission
has been obtained.I have placed these matters under advisement with the rest
of the moderating team, but I would like your views on the subject before we
make a decision.
Many thanks,
Bill Hyman
co-moderator
soc.religion.bahai
----------
From: "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: <bahai-faith@bcca.org>
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:25:58 -0500
From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:41 PM
RESULT
unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.
A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups line:
talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
discussion.
Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
question.
Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
newsgroup.
Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
END CHARTER.
DISTRIBUTION:
In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
Mailing list name: Talisman
Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
Mailing list name: h-Bahai
Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
Mailing list name: bahai-faith
Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
alt.religion
soc.religion.eastern
soc.religion.gnosis
soc.religion.hindu
soc.religion.paganism
soc.religion.quaker
soc.religion.unitarian-univ
talk.religion.buddhism
talk.religion.newage
talk.philosophy.humanism
talk.philosophy.misc
uk.religion.interfaith
uk.religion.misc
uk.religion.other-faiths
talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
Voted YES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
Garner
johnn#mpx.com.au John
New
mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
Clark
house#usq.edu.au Ron
House
jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
Marangella
ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
House
billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
Brewer
sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
Sugimoto
crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
Leech
shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
Shaheedi
trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
Meherally
zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
Zarepour.
narayan123#123india.com Kanva
Narayan
tierney#alloymail.com Sal
Tierney
hanv#angelfire.com Haq
Hanvey
AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
Ali
BRaynor781#aol.com
CRust60001#aol.com
Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
Glaysher
HANI72#aol.com Hani
Ayyad
Jimo3#aol.com Jim
Overmyer
JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
Hamilton
KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
Haines
Macho786#aol.com Maaz
Khan
Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
Lee
PParvin#aol.com
RayHanania#aol.com John
Doe
RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
Nikjoo
SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
Parent.
Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
(shaksway)
Smastr#aol.com Sam
Masters
amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
Elmasri
macleod#beloved.com John
MacLeod
alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
Dawson
kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
Kindervater
tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
Buckland
sandraa#ccnmail.com S.
A.
habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
Abu-Hantash
markow#chickmail.com Sassy
Markow
Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
Laudrigan
jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
Goldberg
kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
Family
eridani#databasix.com
Belinda
booda#datasync.com Martin H.
Booda
guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
Macon)
vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
Minai
carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
Carducci
UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
Ungarino
john_brownston#educastmail.com John
Brownston
mercado959#email.com Jennifer
Mercado
edwardiii#england.com Edward
III
stomljen#enteract.com Steve
Tomljenovic
rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
Roth
alshawa#erols.com Amer
Alshawa
shaukat#erols.com Khalid
Shaukat
tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
Tutstone
lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
Lopez
umaraadil#excite.com
Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
Abdullah
gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
Kerley
david#farrar.com David
Farrar
lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
Vendome
wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
Wilson
runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
Runchey
dave#frackit.com Dave
Ratcliffe
howie#giantsfan.com Ron
Howard
kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
Kendrick
BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
Hoyt
bjv#herbison.com B.J.
Herbison
maher#home.com Maher Bara
kat
c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
Nunez
burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
Frade-Burnett
shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
Husain
rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
Detweiler
rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
Shane
goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
Goodlett
takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
Takriti
hopegartner#iname.com Alice
Hopegartner
matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
Cromer
ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
Amirazodi
muntada#inix.com
Rashid
jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
DeVoto
kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
Unanda
samorgan#java-man.com
<FONT =
r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
Rusan
Aansari#dc.jones.com
Aamir=20
o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
Kordy
Christensen#kansascity.com Len
Christensen
henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
Wadsworth
todomanana#latino.com Miguel
Hernandez
David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
Vessell
sponseller#lycosmail.com David
Sponseller
EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
Badalian
ogreen#mailcity.com
Ogreen
jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
Jensen
hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
Hoffman
cipher#mindspring.com
Cipher
unrein#cig.mot.com W.
Sanders-Unrein
billmc#email.msn.com Bill
McJohn
chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
followed
olav#viking.mv.com Olav
Nieuwejaar
hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
Shambashi
marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
Muljadi
rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
Little
sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
Sutherland
mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
Holmes
dmarasco#npsnet.com David
Marasco
cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
Gruber
jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
Tidwell
rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
Carreiro
ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
Ellenberg
E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
Adams
MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
Raflin
robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
Warren
timken#prontomail.com Ruth
Timken
Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
Ulhaque
jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
Meller
griffin#rednecks.com Bud
Griffin
chvatel#rotfl.com David
Chvatel
maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
Maruyama
harold#shinsato.com Harold
Shinsato
imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
Mufti
pan#syix.com
Pan
s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
Humes
josephb#tezcat.com Joe
Bernstein
charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
<BR>
lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
<BR>
AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
Riecker
smahmud#uop.com Shahid
Mahmud
lingel#email.women.com Sam
Lingel
haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
Haldi
arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
Tajarobi
galaxy001#yahoo.com
j.s.
kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
Krupowicz
nimans#yahoo.com Niman
Shukairy
padidehjan#yahoo.com
PadidehjAn
uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
Uhler
kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
Akhtar
vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
erle
indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
Poerwanto
cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
Stone
nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
McNelly
hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
Fung
jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
Deutsch
jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
Dresner
jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
Walbridge
moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
Alatovic
osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
Osborn
akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
Akhtar
daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
Daas
wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
Khan
slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
Smith
kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
Kopetsky
DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
Ajami
fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
Baker
fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
Baker
ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
Shaikh
nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
Saleh
jrcole#umich.edu Juan
Cole
nizam#umich.edu Nizam
Arain
harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
Harinath
hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
Hougen
whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
Whitling
dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
Bowie
aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
Abd-Allah
endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
Kusumo
malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
Alo
ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
Doe
pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
Johnson
aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
Ahmed
nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
Ali
rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
Rufinus
Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
Wolf
vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
Saarinen
bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
McEwan.
nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
Mastrakoulis
khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
Yussof
rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
rahman
sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
Truto
mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
Boyer=20
davetayl#concentric.net David
Taylor
islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
Ahmed</FONT>
booko#earthlink.net Sharon
Bouchard
oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
King
ljmoore#freespace.net
LarryMoore
sas#frontiernet.net
Stuart S
baird#gate.net Baird
Stafford
sinanju#gateway.net John
Noland
lightspring#jps.net Thomas
Spellman
rreini#mediaone.net Roger
Reini
peterry#megalink.net
Peter=20
bmathieu#micron.net Brent
Mathieu
EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
Pierce
jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
Tymchuk
r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
Marsou
RPittman#postmark.net Richard
Pittman
trhan#serv.net Teri
Rhan
alhadid#SoftHome.net
Muhammad=20
m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
Madansky
ayloush#usa.net Hussam
Ayloush
ceo4life#usa.net Harry
Clinkhammer
Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
Cos
tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
Carter
emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
Jackson
kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
Forrest
irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
Rempt
forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
Marshall
iio#iio.org Islamic Information
Office
irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
Irshad
peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
Wright
barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
Barthelmes
andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
Gierth
neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
kelley
Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
Chambers
SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
SamTHEMan
Voted NO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
Mansouri
dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
Steyaert
carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
Bowie
towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
Towfiq
AErfani#aol.com
Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
Jenkins
Mac0000013#aol.com
Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
Mayerovitch
kimdv#best.com Kim
DeVaughn
stainles#bga.com Dwight
Brown
david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
Ritscher
r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
Butson
lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
Smith
camm#enhanced.com Camm
Maguire
caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
R.)
wcol#erols.com William
Collins
tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
Hodges
aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
Williams
bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
Rosenbaum
fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
Fazlollahi
rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
McClendon
screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
Banshee
swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
Tague
jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
Jam
nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
Myers
shohre#itis.com Shohreh
Mansouri
bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
Limber
lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
Polk
palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
Blanford
djull#mindspring.com David
Jull
slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
McCoy
bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
Walker
chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
Ebenezer
dc#panix.com David W.
Crawford
persia#persia.com Robert
Moldenhauer
Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
Allan
billh#samoatelco.com Bill
Hyman
doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
O'Brien
manialip#wowmail.com Kate
Sparks
francis_uy#yahoo.com F
Uy
Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
Uthke
naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
Weisgerber
cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
Nelson
aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
Aull
rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
Miller
kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
Kohli
helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
Oney
cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
Polk
rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
Borseth
ellis#ftel.net Rick
Ellis
vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
Dura
Scarecro#ime.net Tim
Griffin
jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
Cornell
verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
Verbrugh
okoboji#prodigy.net
Loriann=20
mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
Badii-Azandahi
scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
Rule
tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
Richards
srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
Mawhinney
merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
Rees
Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
Sorenson
leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
Towfigh
Abstained
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
Gennario
chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
Zimmerman
tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
Roshan-Zamir
neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
Crellin
schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
Schuette
rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
Troxel
Invalid ballots
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
Afrashteh
! Disqualified
webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
Abdullah
! Ineligible address
ALTAFH#aol.com
! No vote statement in message
MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
Boyd
! No vote statement in message
LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
(1.8c)
! No vote statement in message
lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
Hollinger
! No vote statement in message
smeanver#tm.net.my
smeanver
! No vote statement in message
mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
Bob/Zannie
! No vote statement in message
To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
following command:
sed -e 's/#/@/g'
--
Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
----------
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman)[SMTP:billh@samoatelco.com]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 9:15 PM
To: Frederick Glaysher
Cc: dave@dogwood.com
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
Dear Mr. Glaysher:
Your submission containing the results of the CFV for talk.religion.bahai
will be replaced by the official report which has been requested.
Bill Hyman
co-moderator
soc.religion.bahai
----------
> From: "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
> To: <bahai-faith@bcca.org>
> Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:25:58 -0500
>
>From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:41 PM
>
> RESULT
> unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>
>There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
>votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
>
>For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
>(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
>than NO votes.
>
>A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
>serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
>moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
>thereafter.
>
>Newsgroups line:
>talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
>
>Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
>
>This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>
>Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
>Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
>Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>
>RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
>
>The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
>open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
>the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
>
>The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
>than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
>will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
>opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
>less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
>many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
>to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
>
>CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
>
>All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
>teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
>discussion.
>
>Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
>accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
>any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
>criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
>their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
>questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
>question.
>
>Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
>newsgroup.
>
>Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
>start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
>articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
>
>The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
>prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
>and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
>prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
>HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
>
>Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
>are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
>cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
>
>END CHARTER.
>
>
>DISTRIBUTION:
>
>In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
>and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
>
>Mailing list name: Talisman
>Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
>Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
>Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
>Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
>
>Mailing list name: h-Bahai
>Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
>Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: bahai-faith
>Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
>Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
>
>alt.religion
>soc.religion.eastern
>soc.religion.gnosis
>soc.religion.hindu
>soc.religion.paganism
>soc.religion.quaker
>soc.religion.unitarian-univ
>talk.religion.buddhism
>talk.religion.newage
>talk.philosophy.humanism
>talk.philosophy.misc
>uk.religion.interfaith
>uk.religion.misc
>uk.religion.other-faiths
>
>
>
>talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
>
>Voted YES
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
>Garner
>johnn#mpx.com.au John
>New
>mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
>Clark
>house#usq.edu.au Ron
>House
>jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
>Marangella
>ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
>House
>billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
>Brewer
>sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
>Sugimoto
>crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
>Leech
>shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
>Shaheedi
>trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
>Meherally
>zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
>Zarepour.
>narayan123#123india.com Kanva
>Narayan
>tierney#alloymail.com Sal
>Tierney
>hanv#angelfire.com Haq
>Hanvey
>AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
>Ali
>BRaynor781#aol.com
>CRust60001#aol.com
>Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
>Glaysher
>HANI72#aol.com Hani
>Ayyad
>Jimo3#aol.com Jim
>Overmyer
>JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
>Hamilton
>KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
>Haines
>Macho786#aol.com Maaz
>Khan
>Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
>Lee
>PParvin#aol.com
>RayHanania#aol.com John
>Doe
>RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
>Nikjoo
>SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
>Parent.
>Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
>(shaksway)
>Smastr#aol.com Sam
>Masters
>amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
>Elmasri
>macleod#beloved.com John
>MacLeod
>alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
>Dawson
>kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
>Kindervater
>tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
>Buckland
>sandraa#ccnmail.com
S.
>A.
>habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
>Abu-Hantash
>markow#chickmail.com Sassy
>Markow
>Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
>Laudrigan
>jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
>Goldberg
>kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
>Family
>eridani#databasix.com
>Belinda
>booda#datasync.com Martin H.
>Booda
>guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
>Macon)
>vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
>Minai
>carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
>Carducci
>UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
>Ungarino
>john_brownston#educastmail.com John
>Brownston
>mercado959#email.com Jennifer
>Mercado
>edwardiii#england.com Edward
>III
>stomljen#enteract.com Steve
>Tomljenovic
>rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
>Roth
>alshawa#erols.com Amer
>Alshawa
>shaukat#erols.com Khalid
>Shaukat
>tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
>Tutstone
>lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
>Lopez
>umaraadil#excite.com
> Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
>Abdullah
>gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
>Kerley
>david#farrar.com David
>Farrar
>lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
>Vendome
>wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
>Wilson
>runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
>Runchey
>dave#frackit.com Dave
>Ratcliffe
>howie#giantsfan.com Ron
>Howard
>kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
>Kendrick
>BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
>Hoyt
>bjv#herbison.com B.J.
>Herbison
>maher#home.com Maher
Bara
>kat
>c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
>Nunez
>burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
>Frade-Burnett
>shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
>Husain
>rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
>Detweiler
>rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
>Shane
>goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
>Goodlett
>takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
>Takriti
>hopegartner#iname.com Alice
>Hopegartner
>matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
>Cromer
>ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
>Amirazodi
>muntada#inix.com
>Rashid
>jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
>DeVoto
>kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
>Unanda
>samorgan#java-man.com
><FONT =
>r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
>Rusan
>Aansari#dc.jones.com
>Aamir=20
>o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
>Kordy
>Christensen#kansascity.com Len
>Christensen
>henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
>Wadsworth
>todomanana#latino.com Miguel
>Hernandez
>David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
>Vessell
>sponseller#lycosmail.com David
>Sponseller
>EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
>Badalian
>ogreen#mailcity.com
>Ogreen
>jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
>Jensen
>hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
>Hoffman
>cipher#mindspring.com
>Cipher
>unrein#cig.mot.com W.
>Sanders-Unrein
>billmc#email.msn.com Bill
>McJohn
>chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
>followed
>olav#viking.mv.com Olav
>Nieuwejaar
>hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
>Shambashi
>marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
>Muljadi
>rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
>Little
>sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
>Sutherland
>mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
>Holmes
>dmarasco#npsnet.com David
>Marasco
>cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
>Gruber
>jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
>Tidwell
>rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
>Carreiro
>ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
>Ellenberg
>E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
>Adams
>MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
>Raflin
>robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
>Warren
>timken#prontomail.com Ruth
>Timken
>Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
>Ulhaque
>jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
>Meller
>griffin#rednecks.com Bud
>Griffin
>chvatel#rotfl.com David
>Chvatel
>maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
>Maruyama
>harold#shinsato.com Harold
>Shinsato
>imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
>Mufti
>pan#syix.com
>Pan
>s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
>Humes
>josephb#tezcat.com Joe
>Bernstein
>charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
><BR>
>lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
><BR>
>AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
>Riecker
>smahmud#uop.com Shahid
>Mahmud
>lingel#email.women.com Sam
>Lingel
>haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
>Haldi
>arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
>Tajarobi
>galaxy001#yahoo.com
>j.s.
>kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
>Krupowicz
>nimans#yahoo.com Niman
>Shukairy
>padidehjan#yahoo.com
>PadidehjAn
>uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
>Uhler
>kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
>Akhtar
>vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
>erle
>indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
>Poerwanto
>cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
>Stone
>nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
>McNelly
>hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
>Fung
>jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
>Deutsch
>jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
>Dresner
>jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
>Walbridge
>moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
>Alatovic
>osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
>Osborn
>akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
>Akhtar
>daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
>Daas
>wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
>Khan
>slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
>Smith
>kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
>Kopetsky
>DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
>Ajami
>fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
>Baker
>fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
>Baker
>ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
>Shaikh
>nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
>Saleh
>jrcole#umich.edu Juan
>Cole
>nizam#umich.edu Nizam
>Arain
>harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
>Harinath
>hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
>Hougen
>whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
>Whitling
>dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
>Bowie
>aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
>Abd-Allah
>endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
>Kusumo
>malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
>Alo
>ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
>Doe
>pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
>Johnson
>aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
>Ahmed
>nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
>Ali
>rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
>Rufinus
>Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
>Wolf
>vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
>Saarinen
>bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
>McEwan.
>nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
>Mastrakoulis
>khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
>Yussof
>rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
>rahman
>sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
>Truto
>mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
>Boyer=20
>davetayl#concentric.net David
>Taylor
>islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
>Ahmed</FONT>
>booko#earthlink.net Sharon
>Bouchard
>oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
>King
>ljmoore#freespace.net
>LarryMoore
>sas#frontiernet.net
>Stuart S
>baird#gate.net Baird
>Stafford
>sinanju#gateway.net John
>Noland
>lightspring#jps.net Thomas
>Spellman
>rreini#mediaone.net Roger
>Reini
>peterry#megalink.net
>Peter=20
>bmathieu#micron.net Brent
>Mathieu
>EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
>Pierce
>jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
>Tymchuk
>r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
>Marsou
>RPittman#postmark.net Richard
>Pittman
>trhan#serv.net Teri
>Rhan
>alhadid#SoftHome.net
>Muhammad=20
>m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
>Madansky
>ayloush#usa.net Hussam
>Ayloush
>ceo4life#usa.net Harry
>Clinkhammer
>Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
>Cos
>tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
>Carter
>emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
>Jackson
>kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
>Forrest
>irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
>Rempt
>forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
>Marshall
>iio#iio.org Islamic Information
>Office
>irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
>Irshad
>peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
>Wright
>barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
>Barthelmes
>andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
>Gierth
>neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
>kelley
>Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
>Chambers
>SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
>SamTHEMan
>
>Voted NO
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
>Mansouri
>dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
>Steyaert
>carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
>Bowie
>towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
>Towfiq
>AErfani#aol.com
>Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
>Jenkins
>Mac0000013#aol.com
>Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
>Mayerovitch
>kimdv#best.com Kim
>DeVaughn
>stainles#bga.com Dwight
>Brown
>david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
>Ritscher
>r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
>Butson
>lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
>Smith
>camm#enhanced.com Camm
>Maguire
>caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
>R.)
>wcol#erols.com William
>Collins
>tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
>Hodges
>aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
>Williams
>bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
>Rosenbaum
>fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
>Fazlollahi
>rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
>McClendon
>screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
>Banshee
>swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
>Tague
>jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
>Jam
>nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
>Myers
>shohre#itis.com Shohreh
>Mansouri
>bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
>Limber
>lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
>Polk
>palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
>Blanford
>djull#mindspring.com David
>Jull
>slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
>McCoy
>bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
>Walker
>chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
>Ebenezer
>dc#panix.com David W.
>Crawford
>persia#persia.com Robert
>Moldenhauer
>Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
>Allan
>billh#samoatelco.com Bill
>Hyman
>doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
>O'Brien
>manialip#wowmail.com Kate
>Sparks
>francis_uy#yahoo.com
F
>Uy
>Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
>Uthke
>naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
>Weisgerber
>cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
>Nelson
>aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
>Aull
>rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
>Miller
>kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
>Kohli
>helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
>Oney
>cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
>Polk
>rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
>Borseth
>ellis#ftel.net Rick
>Ellis
>vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
>Dura
>Scarecro#ime.net Tim
>Griffin
>jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
>Cornell
>verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
>Verbrugh
>okoboji#prodigy.net
>Loriann=20
>mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
>Badii-Azandahi
>scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
>NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
>Rule
>tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
>Richards
>srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
>Mawhinney
>merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
>Rees
>Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
>Sorenson
>leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
>Towfigh
>
>Abstained
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
>Gennario
>chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
>Zimmerman
>tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
>Roshan-Zamir
>neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
>Crellin
>schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
>Schuette
>rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
>Troxel
>
>Invalid ballots
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
>Afrashteh
> ! Disqualified
>webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
>Abdullah
> ! Ineligible address
>ALTAFH#aol.com
> ! No vote statement in message
>MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
>Boyd
> ! No vote statement in message
>LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
>(1.8c)
> ! No vote statement in message
>lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
>Hollinger
> ! No vote statement in message
>smeanver#tm.net.my
>smeanver
> ! No vote statement in message
>mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
>Bob/Zannie
> ! No vote statement in message
>
>To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
>following command:
>
> sed -e 's/#/@/g'
>
>--
>Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 6:23 PM
To: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman)
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
-----Original Message-----
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman) <billh@samoatelco.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: srb <srb-mods@bcca.org>
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 5:28 PM
Subject: FW: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
>Dear Mr. Glaysher:
>
>Congratulations. Persistence pays off.
>
>I am aware of the result of the TRB vote as one of the moderating team
>forwarded it to the moderators from another forum, for their information.
>The reason that the result has not been posted to soc.religion.bahai is
that
>it has not yet been received as a submission for posting. The address
>bahai-faith@egroups.com is unknown to me.
>
>If you would care to submit it I will post it. The address for submissions
>is:
>bahai-faith@bcca.org. I suggest that you do not include the charter as this
>was already posted with the CFV and, as Baha'is believe in secret ballots,
I
>will take posting the names of individual voters under advisement with the
>other moderators.
I do not believe either one of us has the authority to
delete the charter from the RESULT. It is part of the
document and appears properly in each stage of the
group formation process as regularly observed on
Usenet. I am therefore sending you the original RESULT
in a separate message to the address above.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>Our present policy is that only names and return addresses can be present
in
>submitters' signatures.
>
>Bill Hyman
>co-moderator
>soc.religion.bahai
>----------
>From: "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>To: "srb" <srb-mods@bcca.org>
>Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
>Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:56:07 -0500
>
>Dear Mr. Hyman:
>
>Since I have not seen the RESULT appear on soc.religion.bahai,
>I am taking the advice of a news.groupie and sending you myself
>a copy of it. You may verify its authenticity on news.groups or
>news.announce.newgroups.
>
>I'm sure people on soc.religion.bahai, having read the RFD and
>the CFV, would like to hear of the RESULT.
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>--------------
> RESULT
> unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>
>There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
>votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
>
>For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
>(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
>than NO votes.
>
>A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
>serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
>moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
>thereafter.
>
>Newsgroups line:
>talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
>
>Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
>
>This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>
>Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
>Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
>Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>
>RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
>
>The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
>open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
>the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
>
>The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
>than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
>will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
>opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
>less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
>many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
>to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
>
>CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
>
>All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
>teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
>discussion.
>
>Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
>accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
>any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
>criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
>their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
>questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
>question.
>
>Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
>newsgroup.
>
>Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
>start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
>articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
>
>The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
>prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
>and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
>prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
>HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
>
>Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
>are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
>cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
>
>END CHARTER.
>
>
>DISTRIBUTION:
>
>In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
>and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
>
>Mailing list name: Talisman
>Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
>Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
>Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
>Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
>
>Mailing list name: h-Bahai
>Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
>Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: bahai-faith
>Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
>Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
>
>alt.religion
>soc.religion.eastern
>soc.religion.gnosis
>soc.religion.hindu
>soc.religion.paganism
>soc.religion.quaker
>soc.religion.unitarian-univ
>talk.religion.buddhism
>talk.religion.newage
>talk.philosophy.humanism
>talk.philosophy.misc
>uk.religion.interfaith
>uk.religion.misc
>uk.religion.other-faiths
>
>
>
>talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
>
>Voted YES
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
>Garner
>johnn#mpx.com.au John
>New
>mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
>Clark
>house#usq.edu.au Ron
>House
>jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
>Marangella
>ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
>House
>billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
>Brewer
>sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
>Sugimoto
>crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
>Leech
>shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
>Shaheedi
>trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
>Meherally
>zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
>Zarepour.
>narayan123#123india.com Kanva
>Narayan
>tierney#alloymail.com Sal
>Tierney
>hanv#angelfire.com Haq
>Hanvey
>AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
>Ali
>BRaynor781#aol.com
>CRust60001#aol.com
>Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
>Glaysher
>HANI72#aol.com Hani
>Ayyad
>Jimo3#aol.com Jim
>Overmyer
>JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
>Hamilton
>KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
>Haines
>Macho786#aol.com Maaz
>Khan
>Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
>Lee
>Glaysher
>PParvin#aol.com
>RayHanania#aol.com John
>Doe
>RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
>Nikjoo
>SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
>Parent.
>Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
>(shaksway)
>Smastr#aol.com Sam
>Masters
>amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
>Elmasri
>macleod#beloved.com John
>MacLeod
>alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
>Dawson
>kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
>Kindervater
>tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
>Buckland
>sandraa#ccnmail.com
S.
>A.
>habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
>Abu-Hantash
>markow#chickmail.com Sassy
>Markow
>Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
>Laudrigan
>jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
>Goldberg
>kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
>Family
>eridani#databasix.com
>Belinda
>booda#datasync.com Martin H.
>Booda
>guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
>Macon)
>vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
>Minai
>carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
>Carducci
>UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
>Ungarino
>john_brownston#educastmail.com John
>Brownston
>mercado959#email.com Jennifer
>Mercado
>edwardiii#england.com Edward
>III
>stomljen#enteract.com Steve
>Tomljenovic
>rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
>Roth
>alshawa#erols.com Amer
>Alshawa
>shaukat#erols.com Khalid
>Shaukat
>tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
>Tutstone
>lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
>Lopez
>umaraadil#excite.com
> Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
>Abdullah
>gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
>Kerley
>david#farrar.com David
>Farrar
>lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
>Vendome
>wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
>Wilson
>runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
>Runchey
>dave#frackit.com Dave
>Ratcliffe
>howie#giantsfan.com Ron
>Howard
>kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
>Kendrick
>BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
>Hoyt
>bjv#herbison.com B.J.
>Herbison
>maher#home.com Maher
>Barakat
>c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
>Nunez
>burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
>Frade-Burnett
>shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
>Husain
>rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
>Detweiler
>rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
>Shane
>goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
>Goodlett
>takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
>Takriti
>hopegartner#iname.com Alice
>Hopegartner
>matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
>Cromer
>ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
>Amirazodi
>muntada#inix.com
>Rashid
>jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
>DeVoto
>kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
>Unanda
>samorgan#java-man.com
><FONT =
>r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
>Rusan
>Aansari#dc.jones.com
>Aamir=20
>o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
>Kordy
>Christensen#kansascity.com Len
>Christensen
>henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
>Wadsworth
>todomanana#latino.com Miguel
>Hernandez
>David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
>Vessell
>sponseller#lycosmail.com David
>Sponseller
>EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
>Badalian
>ogreen#mailcity.com
>Ogreen
>jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
>Jensen
>hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
>Hoffman
>cipher#mindspring.com
>Cipher
>unrein#cig.mot.com W.
>Sanders-Unrein
>billmc#email.msn.com Bill
>McJohn
>chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
>followed
>olav#viking.mv.com Olav
>Nieuwejaar
>hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
>Shambashi
>marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
>Muljadi
>rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
>Little
>sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
>Sutherland
>mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
>Holmes
>dmarasco#npsnet.com David
>Marasco
>cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
>Gruber
>jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
>Tidwell
>rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
>Carreiro
>ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
>Ellenberg
>E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
>Adams
>MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
>Raflin
>robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
>Warren
>timken#prontomail.com Ruth
>Timken
>Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
>Ulhaque
>jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
>Meller
>griffin#rednecks.com Bud
>Griffin
>chvatel#rotfl.com David
>Chvatel
>maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
>Maruyama
>harold#shinsato.com Harold
>Shinsato
>imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
>Mufti
>pan#syix.com
>Pan
>s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
>Humes
>josephb#tezcat.com Joe
>Bernstein
>charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
><BR>
>lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
><BR>
>AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
>Riecker
>smahmud#uop.com Shahid
>Mahmud
>lingel#email.women.com Sam
>Lingel
>haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
>Haldi
>arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
>Tajarobi
>galaxy001#yahoo.com
>j.s.
>kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
>Krupowicz
>nimans#yahoo.com Niman
>Shukairy
>padidehjan#yahoo.com
>PadidehjAn
>uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
>Uhler
>kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
>Akhtar
>vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
>erle
>indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
>Poerwanto
>cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
>Stone
>nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
>McNelly
>hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
>Fung
>jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
>Deutsch
>jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
>Dresner
>jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
>Walbridge
>moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
>Alatovic
>osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
>Osborn
>akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
>Akhtar
>daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
>Daas
>wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
>Khan
>slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
>Smith
>kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
>Kopetsky
>DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
>Ajami
>fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
>Baker
>fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
>Baker
>ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
>Shaikh
>nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
>Saleh
>jrcole#umich.edu Juan
>Cole
>nizam#umich.edu Nizam
>Arain
>harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
>Harinath
>hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
>Hougen
>whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
>Whitling
>dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
>Bowie
>aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
>Abd-Allah
>endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
>Kusumo
>malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
>Alo
>ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
>Doe
>pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
>Johnson
>aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
>Ahmed
>nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
>Ali
>rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
>Rufinus
>Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
>Wolf
>vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
>Saarinen
>bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
>McEwan.
>nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
>Mastrakoulis
>khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
>Yussof
>rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
>rahman
>sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
>Truto
>mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
>Boyer=20
>davetayl#concentric.net David
>Taylor
>islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
>Ahmed</FONT>
>booko#earthlink.net Sharon
>Bouchard
>oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
>King
>ljmoore#freespace.net
>LarryMoore
>sas#frontiernet.net
>Stuart S
>baird#gate.net Baird
>Stafford
>sinanju#gateway.net John
>Noland
>lightspring#jps.net Thomas
>Spellman
>rreini#mediaone.net Roger
>Reini
>peterry#megalink.net
>Peter=20
>bmathieu#micron.net Brent
>Mathieu
>EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
>Pierce
>jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
>Tymchuk
>r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
>Marsou
>RPittman#postmark.net Richard
>Pittman
>trhan#serv.net Teri
>Rhan
>alhadid#SoftHome.net
>Muhammad=20
>m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
>Madansky
>ayloush#usa.net Hussam
>Ayloush
>ceo4life#usa.net Harry
>Clinkhammer
>Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
>Cos
>tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
>Carter
>emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
>Jackson
>kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
>Forrest
>irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
>Rempt
>forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
>Marshall
>iio#iio.org Islamic Information
>Office
>irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
>Irshad
>peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
>Wright
>barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
>Barthelmes
>andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
>Gierth
>neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
>kelley
>Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
>Chambers
>SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
>SamTHEMan
>
>Voted NO
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
>Mansouri
>dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
>Steyaert
>carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
>Bowie
>towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
>Towfiq
>AErfani#aol.com
>Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
>Jenkins
>Mac0000013#aol.com
>Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
>Mayerovitch
>kimdv#best.com Kim
>DeVaughn
>stainles#bga.com Dwight
>Brown
>david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
>Ritscher
>r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
>Butson
>lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
>Smith
>camm#enhanced.com Camm
>Maguire
>caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
>R.)
>wcol#erols.com William
>Collins
>tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
>Hodges
>aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
>Williams
>bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
>Rosenbaum
>fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
>Fazlollahi
>rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
>McClendon
>screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
>Banshee
>swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
>Tague
>jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
>Jam
>nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
>Myers
>shohre#itis.com Shohreh
>Mansouri
>bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
>Limber
>lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
>Polk
>palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
>Blanford
>djull#mindspring.com David
>Jull
>slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
>McCoy
>bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
>Walker
>chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
>Ebenezer
>dc#panix.com David W.
>Crawford
>persia#persia.com Robert
>Moldenhauer
>Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
>Allan
>billh#samoatelco.com Bill
>Hyman
>doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
>O'Brien
>manialip#wowmail.com Kate
>Sparks
>francis_uy#yahoo.com
F
>Uy
>Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
>Uthke
>naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
>Weisgerber
>cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
>Nelson
>aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
>Aull
>rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
>Miller
>kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
>Kohli
>helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
>Oney
>cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
>Polk
>rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
>Borseth
>ellis#ftel.net Rick
>Ellis
>vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
>Dura
>Scarecro#ime.net Tim
>Griffin
>jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
>Cornell
>verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
>Verbrugh
>okoboji#prodigy.net
>Loriann=20
>mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
>Badii-Azandahi
>scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
>NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
>Rule
>tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
>Richards
>srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
>Mawhinney
>merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
>Rees
>Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
>Sorenson
>leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
>Towfigh
>
>Abstained
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
>Gennario
>chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
>Zimmerman
>tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
>Roshan-Zamir
>neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
>Crellin
>schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
>Schuette
>rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
>Troxel
>
>Invalid ballots
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
>Afrashteh
> ! Disqualified
>webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
>Abdullah
> ! Ineligible address
>ALTAFH#aol.com
> ! No vote statement in message
>MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
>Boyd
> ! No vote statement in message
>LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
>(1.8c)
> ! No vote statement in message
>lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
>Hollinger
> ! No vote statement in message
>smeanver#tm.net.my
>smeanver
> ! No vote statement in message
>mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
>Bob/Zannie
> ! No vote statement in message
>
>To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
>following command:
>
> sed -e 's/#/@/g'
>
>--
>Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 1999 6:25 PM
To: bahai-faith@bcca.org
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:41 PM
RESULT
unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes.
A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups line:
talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
discussion.
Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
question.
Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
newsgroup.
Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
END CHARTER.
DISTRIBUTION:
In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
Mailing list name: Talisman
Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
Mailing list name: h-Bahai
Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
Mailing list name: bahai-faith
Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
alt.religion
soc.religion.eastern
soc.religion.gnosis
soc.religion.hindu
soc.religion.paganism
soc.religion.quaker
soc.religion.unitarian-univ
talk.religion.buddhism
talk.religion.newage
talk.philosophy.humanism
talk.philosophy.misc
uk.religion.interfaith
uk.religion.misc
uk.religion.other-faiths
talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
Voted YES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
Garner
johnn#mpx.com.au John
New
mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
Clark
house#usq.edu.au Ron
House
jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
Marangella
ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
House
billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
Brewer
sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
Sugimoto
crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
Leech
shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
Shaheedi
trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
Meherally
zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
Zarepour.
narayan123#123india.com Kanva
Narayan
tierney#alloymail.com Sal
Tierney
hanv#angelfire.com Haq
Hanvey
AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
Ali
BRaynor781#aol.com
CRust60001#aol.com
Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
Glaysher
HANI72#aol.com Hani
Ayyad
Jimo3#aol.com Jim
Overmyer
JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
Hamilton
KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
Haines
Macho786#aol.com Maaz
Khan
Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
Lee
PParvin#aol.com
RayHanania#aol.com John
Doe
RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
Nikjoo
SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
Parent.
Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
(shaksway)
Smastr#aol.com Sam
Masters
amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
Elmasri
macleod#beloved.com John
MacLeod
alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
Dawson
kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
Kindervater
tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
Buckland
sandraa#ccnmail.com S.
A.
habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
Abu-Hantash
markow#chickmail.com Sassy
Markow
Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
Laudrigan
jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
Goldberg
kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
Family
eridani#databasix.com
Belinda
booda#datasync.com Martin H.
Booda
guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
Macon)
vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
Minai
carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
Carducci
UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
Ungarino
john_brownston#educastmail.com John
Brownston
mercado959#email.com Jennifer
Mercado
edwardiii#england.com Edward
III
stomljen#enteract.com Steve
Tomljenovic
rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
Roth
alshawa#erols.com Amer
Alshawa
shaukat#erols.com Khalid
Shaukat
tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
Tutstone
lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
Lopez
umaraadil#excite.com
Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
Abdullah
gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
Kerley
david#farrar.com David
Farrar
lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
Vendome
wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
Wilson
runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
Runchey
dave#frackit.com Dave
Ratcliffe
howie#giantsfan.com Ron
Howard
kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
Kendrick
BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
Hoyt
bjv#herbison.com B.J.
Herbison
maher#home.com Maher Bara
kat
c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
Nunez
burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
Frade-Burnett
shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
Husain
rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
Detweiler
rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
Shane
goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
Goodlett
takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
Takriti
hopegartner#iname.com Alice
Hopegartner
matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
Cromer
ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
Amirazodi
muntada#inix.com
Rashid
jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
DeVoto
kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
Unanda
samorgan#java-man.com
<FONT =
r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
Rusan
Aansari#dc.jones.com
Aamir=20
o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
Kordy
Christensen#kansascity.com Len
Christensen
henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
Wadsworth
todomanana#latino.com Miguel
Hernandez
David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
Vessell
sponseller#lycosmail.com David
Sponseller
EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
Badalian
ogreen#mailcity.com
Ogreen
jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
Jensen
hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
Hoffman
cipher#mindspring.com
Cipher
unrein#cig.mot.com W.
Sanders-Unrein
billmc#email.msn.com Bill
McJohn
chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
followed
olav#viking.mv.com Olav
Nieuwejaar
hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
Shambashi
marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
Muljadi
rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
Little
sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
Sutherland
mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
Holmes
dmarasco#npsnet.com David
Marasco
cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
Gruber
jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
Tidwell
rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
Carreiro
ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
Ellenberg
E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
Adams
MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
Raflin
robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
Warren
timken#prontomail.com Ruth
Timken
Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
Ulhaque
jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
Meller
griffin#rednecks.com Bud
Griffin
chvatel#rotfl.com David
Chvatel
maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
Maruyama
harold#shinsato.com Harold
Shinsato
imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
Mufti
pan#syix.com
Pan
s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
Humes
josephb#tezcat.com Joe
Bernstein
charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
<BR>
lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
<BR>
AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
Riecker
smahmud#uop.com Shahid
Mahmud
lingel#email.women.com Sam
Lingel
haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
Haldi
arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
Tajarobi
galaxy001#yahoo.com
j.s.
kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
Krupowicz
nimans#yahoo.com Niman
Shukairy
padidehjan#yahoo.com
PadidehjAn
uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
Uhler
kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
Akhtar
vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
erle
indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
Poerwanto
cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
Stone
nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
McNelly
hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
Fung
jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
Deutsch
jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
Dresner
jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
Walbridge
moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
Alatovic
osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
Osborn
akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
Akhtar
daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
Daas
wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
Khan
slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
Smith
kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
Kopetsky
DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
Ajami
fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
Baker
fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
Baker
ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
Shaikh
nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
Saleh
jrcole#umich.edu Juan
Cole
nizam#umich.edu Nizam
Arain
harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
Harinath
hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
Hougen
whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
Whitling
dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
Bowie
aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
Abd-Allah
endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
Kusumo
malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
Alo
ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
Doe
pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
Johnson
aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
Ahmed
nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
Ali
rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
Rufinus
Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
Wolf
vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
Saarinen
bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
McEwan.
nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
Mastrakoulis
khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
Yussof
rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
rahman
sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
Truto
mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
Boyer=20
davetayl#concentric.net David
Taylor
islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
Ahmed</FONT>
booko#earthlink.net Sharon
Bouchard
oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
King
ljmoore#freespace.net
LarryMoore
sas#frontiernet.net
Stuart S
baird#gate.net Baird
Stafford
sinanju#gateway.net John
Noland
lightspring#jps.net Thomas
Spellman
rreini#mediaone.net Roger
Reini
peterry#megalink.net
Peter=20
bmathieu#micron.net Brent
Mathieu
EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
Pierce
jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
Tymchuk
r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
Marsou
RPittman#postmark.net Richard
Pittman
trhan#serv.net Teri
Rhan
alhadid#SoftHome.net
Muhammad=20
m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
Madansky
ayloush#usa.net Hussam
Ayloush
ceo4life#usa.net Harry
Clinkhammer
Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
Cos
tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
Carter
emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
Jackson
kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
Forrest
irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
Rempt
forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
Marshall
iio#iio.org Islamic Information
Office
irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
Irshad
peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
Wright
barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
Barthelmes
andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
Gierth
neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
kelley
Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
Chambers
SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
SamTHEMan
Voted NO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
Mansouri
dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
Steyaert
carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
Bowie
towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
Towfiq
AErfani#aol.com
Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
Jenkins
Mac0000013#aol.com
Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
Mayerovitch
kimdv#best.com Kim
DeVaughn
stainles#bga.com Dwight
Brown
david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
Ritscher
r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
Butson
lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
Smith
camm#enhanced.com Camm
Maguire
caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
R.)
wcol#erols.com William
Collins
tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
Hodges
aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
Williams
bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
Rosenbaum
fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
Fazlollahi
rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
McClendon
screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
Banshee
swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
Tague
jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
Jam
nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
Myers
shohre#itis.com Shohreh
Mansouri
bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
Limber
lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
Polk
palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
Blanford
djull#mindspring.com David
Jull
slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
McCoy
bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
Walker
chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
Ebenezer
dc#panix.com David W.
Crawford
persia#persia.com Robert
Moldenhauer
Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
Allan
billh#samoatelco.com Bill
Hyman
doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
O'Brien
manialip#wowmail.com Kate
Sparks
francis_uy#yahoo.com F
Uy
Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
Uthke
naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
Weisgerber
cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
Nelson
aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
Aull
rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
Miller
kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
Kohli
helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
Oney
cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
Polk
rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
Borseth
ellis#ftel.net Rick
Ellis
vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
Dura
Scarecro#ime.net Tim
Griffin
jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
Cornell
verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
Verbrugh
okoboji#prodigy.net
Loriann=20
mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
Badii-Azandahi
scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
Rule
tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
Richards
srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
Mawhinney
merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
Rees
Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
Sorenson
leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
Towfigh
Abstained
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
Gennario
chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
Zimmerman
tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
Roshan-Zamir
neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
Crellin
schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
Schuette
rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
Troxel
Invalid ballots
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
Afrashteh
! Disqualified
webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
Abdullah
! Ineligible address
ALTAFH#aol.com
! No vote statement in message
MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
Boyd
! No vote statement in message
LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
(1.8c)
! No vote statement in message
lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
Hollinger
! No vote statement in message
smeanver#tm.net.my
smeanver
! No vote statement in message
mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
Bob/Zannie
! No vote statement in message
To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
following command:
sed -e 's/#/@/g'
--
Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:45 AM
To: Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Ron House
Subject: Fw: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
The latest ignorance from Hyman......
-----Original Message-----
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman) <billh@samoatelco.com>
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: srb <srb-mods@bcca.org>
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 5:28 PM
Subject: FW: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
>Dear Mr. Glaysher:
>
>Congratulations. Persistence pays off.
>
>I am aware of the result of the TRB vote as one of the moderating team
>forwarded it to the moderators from another forum, for their information.
>The reason that the result has not been posted to soc.religion.bahai is
that
>it has not yet been received as a submission for posting. The address
>bahai-faith@egroups.com is unknown to me.
>
>If you would care to submit it I will post it. The address for submissions
>is:
>bahai-faith@bcca.org. I suggest that you do not include the charter as this
>was already posted with the CFV and, as Baha'is believe in secret ballots,
I
>will take posting the names of individual voters under advisement with the
>other moderators.
>
>Our present policy is that only names and return addresses can be present
in
>submitters' signatures.
>
>Bill Hyman
>co-moderator
>soc.religion.bahai
>----------
>From: "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>To: "srb" <srb-mods@bcca.org>
>Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218: 63
>Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:56:07 -0500
>
>Dear Mr. Hyman:
>
>Since I have not seen the RESULT appear on soc.religion.bahai,
>I am taking the advice of a news.groupie and sending you myself
>a copy of it. You may verify its authenticity on news.groups or
>news.announce.newgroups.
>
>I'm sure people on soc.religion.bahai, having read the RFD and
>the CFV, would like to hear of the RESULT.
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>--------------
> RESULT
> unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>
>There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
>votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
>
>For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
>(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
>than NO votes.
>
>A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
>serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
>moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
>thereafter.
>
>Newsgroups line:
>talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
>
>Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
>
>This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>
>Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
>Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
>Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>
>RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
>
>The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
>open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
>the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
>
>The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
>than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
>will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
>opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
>less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
>many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
>to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
>
>CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
>
>All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
>teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
>discussion.
>
>Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
>accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
>any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
>criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
>their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
>questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
>question.
>
>Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
>newsgroup.
>
>Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
>start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
>articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
>
>The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
>prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
>and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
>prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
>HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
>
>Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
>are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
>cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
>
>END CHARTER.
>
>
>DISTRIBUTION:
>
>In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
>and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
>
>Mailing list name: Talisman
>Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
>Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
>Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
>Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
>
>Mailing list name: h-Bahai
>Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
>Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: bahai-faith
>Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
>Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
>
>alt.religion
>soc.religion.eastern
>soc.religion.gnosis
>soc.religion.hindu
>soc.religion.paganism
>soc.religion.quaker
>soc.religion.unitarian-univ
>talk.religion.buddhism
>talk.religion.newage
>talk.philosophy.humanism
>talk.philosophy.misc
>uk.religion.interfaith
>uk.religion.misc
>uk.religion.other-faiths
>
>
>
>talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
>
>Voted YES
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
>Garner
>johnn#mpx.com.au John
>New
>mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
>Clark
>house#usq.edu.au Ron
>House
>jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
>Marangella
>ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
>House
>billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
>Brewer
>sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
>Sugimoto
>crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
>Leech
>shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
>Shaheedi
>trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
>Meherally
>zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
>Zarepour.
>narayan123#123india.com Kanva
>Narayan
>tierney#alloymail.com Sal
>Tierney
>hanv#angelfire.com Haq
>Hanvey
>AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
>Ali
>BRaynor781#aol.com
>CRust60001#aol.com
>Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
>Glaysher
>HANI72#aol.com Hani
>Ayyad
>Jimo3#aol.com Jim
>Overmyer
>JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
>Hamilton
>KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
>Haines
>Macho786#aol.com Maaz
>Khan
>Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
>Lee
>PParvin#aol.com
>RayHanania#aol.com John
>Doe
>RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
>Nikjoo
>SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
>Parent.
>Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
>(shaksway)
>Smastr#aol.com Sam
>Masters
>amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
>Elmasri
>macleod#beloved.com John
>MacLeod
>alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
>Dawson
>kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
>Kindervater
>tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
>Buckland
>sandraa#ccnmail.com
S.
>A.
>habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
>Abu-Hantash
>markow#chickmail.com Sassy
>Markow
>Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
>Laudrigan
>jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
>Goldberg
>kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
>Family
>eridani#databasix.com
>Belinda
>booda#datasync.com Martin H.
>Booda
>guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
>Macon)
>vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
>Minai
>carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
>Carducci
>UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
>Ungarino
>john_brownston#educastmail.com John
>Brownston
>mercado959#email.com Jennifer
>Mercado
>edwardiii#england.com Edward
>III
>stomljen#enteract.com Steve
>Tomljenovic
>rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
>Roth
>alshawa#erols.com Amer
>Alshawa
>shaukat#erols.com Khalid
>Shaukat
>tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
>Tutstone
>lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
>Lopez
>umaraadil#excite.com
> Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
>Abdullah
>gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
>Kerley
>david#farrar.com David
>Farrar
>lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
>Vendome
>wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
>Wilson
>runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
>Runchey
>dave#frackit.com Dave
>Ratcliffe
>howie#giantsfan.com Ron
>Howard
>kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
>Kendrick
>BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
>Hoyt
>bjv#herbison.com B.J.
>Herbison
>maher#home.com Maher
>Barakat
>c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
>Nunez
>burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
>Frade-Burnett
>shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
>Husain
>rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
>Detweiler
>rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
>Shane
>goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
>Goodlett
>takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
>Takriti
>hopegartner#iname.com Alice
>Hopegartner
>matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
>Cromer
>ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
>Amirazodi
>muntada#inix.com
>Rashid
>jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
>DeVoto
>kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
>Unanda
>samorgan#java-man.com
><FONT =
>r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
>Rusan
>Aansari#dc.jones.com
>Aamir=20
>o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
>Kordy
>Christensen#kansascity.com Len
>Christensen
>henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
>Wadsworth
>todomanana#latino.com Miguel
>Hernandez
>David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
>Vessell
>sponseller#lycosmail.com David
>Sponseller
>EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
>Badalian
>ogreen#mailcity.com
>Ogreen
>jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
>Jensen
>hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
>Hoffman
>cipher#mindspring.com
>Cipher
>unrein#cig.mot.com W.
>Sanders-Unrein
>billmc#email.msn.com Bill
>McJohn
>chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
>followed
>olav#viking.mv.com Olav
>Nieuwejaar
>hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
>Shambashi
>marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
>Muljadi
>rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
>Little
>sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
>Sutherland
>mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
>Holmes
>dmarasco#npsnet.com David
>Marasco
>cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
>Gruber
>jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
>Tidwell
>rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
>Carreiro
>ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
>Ellenberg
>E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
>Adams
>MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
>Raflin
>robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
>Warren
>timken#prontomail.com Ruth
>Timken
>Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
>Ulhaque
>jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
>Meller
>griffin#rednecks.com Bud
>Griffin
>chvatel#rotfl.com David
>Chvatel
>maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
>Maruyama
>harold#shinsato.com Harold
>Shinsato
>imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
>Mufti
>pan#syix.com
>Pan
>s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
>Humes
>josephb#tezcat.com Joe
>Bernstein
>charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
><BR>
>lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
><BR>
>AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
>Riecker
>smahmud#uop.com Shahid
>Mahmud
>lingel#email.women.com Sam
>Lingel
>haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
>Haldi
>arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
>Tajarobi
>galaxy001#yahoo.com
>j.s.
>kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
>Krupowicz
>nimans#yahoo.com Niman
>Shukairy
>padidehjan#yahoo.com
>PadidehjAn
>uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
>Uhler
>kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
>Akhtar
>vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
>erle
>indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
>Poerwanto
>cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
>Stone
>nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
>McNelly
>hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
>Fung
>jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
>Deutsch
>jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
>Dresner
>jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
>Walbridge
>moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
>Alatovic
>osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
>Osborn
>akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
>Akhtar
>daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
>Daas
>wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
>Khan
>slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
>Smith
>kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
>Kopetsky
>DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
>Ajami
>fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
>Baker
>fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
>Baker
>ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
>Shaikh
>nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
>Saleh
>jrcole#umich.edu Juan
>Cole
>nizam#umich.edu Nizam
>Arain
>harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
>Harinath
>hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
>Hougen
>whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
>Whitling
>dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
>Bowie
>aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
>Abd-Allah
>endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
>Kusumo
>malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
>Alo
>ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
>Doe
>pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
>Johnson
>aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
>Ahmed
>nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
>Ali
>rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
>Rufinus
>Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
>Wolf
>vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
>Saarinen
>bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
>McEwan.
>nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
>Mastrakoulis
>khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
>Yussof
>rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
>rahman
>sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
>Truto
>mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
>Boyer=20
>davetayl#concentric.net David
>Taylor
>islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
>Ahmed</FONT>
>booko#earthlink.net Sharon
>Bouchard
>oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
>King
>ljmoore#freespace.net
>LarryMoore
>sas#frontiernet.net
>Stuart S
>baird#gate.net Baird
>Stafford
>sinanju#gateway.net John
>Noland
>lightspring#jps.net Thomas
>Spellman
>rreini#mediaone.net Roger
>Reini
>peterry#megalink.net
>Peter=20
>bmathieu#micron.net Brent
>Mathieu
>EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
>Pierce
>jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
>Tymchuk
>r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
>Marsou
>RPittman#postmark.net Richard
>Pittman
>trhan#serv.net Teri
>Rhan
>alhadid#SoftHome.net
>Muhammad=20
>m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
>Madansky
>ayloush#usa.net Hussam
>Ayloush
>ceo4life#usa.net Harry
>Clinkhammer
>Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
>Cos
>tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
>Carter
>emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
>Jackson
>kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
>Forrest
>irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
>Rempt
>forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
>Marshall
>iio#iio.org Islamic Information
>Office
>irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
>Irshad
>peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
>Wright
>barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
>Barthelmes
>andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
>Gierth
>neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
>kelley
>Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
>Chambers
>SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
>SamTHEMan
>
>Voted NO
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
>Mansouri
>dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
>Steyaert
>carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
>Bowie
>towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
>Towfiq
>AErfani#aol.com
>Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
>Jenkins
>Mac0000013#aol.com
>Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
>Mayerovitch
>kimdv#best.com Kim
>DeVaughn
>stainles#bga.com Dwight
>Brown
>david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
>Ritscher
>r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
>Butson
>lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
>Smith
>camm#enhanced.com Camm
>Maguire
>caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
>R.)
>wcol#erols.com William
>Collins
>tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
>Hodges
>aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
>Williams
>bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
>Rosenbaum
>fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
>Fazlollahi
>rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
>McClendon
>screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
>Banshee
>swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
>Tague
>jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
>Jam
>nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
>Myers
>shohre#itis.com Shohreh
>Mansouri
>bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
>Limber
>lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
>Polk
>palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
>Blanford
>djull#mindspring.com David
>Jull
>slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
>McCoy
>bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
>Walker
>chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
>Ebenezer
>dc#panix.com David W.
>Crawford
>persia#persia.com Robert
>Moldenhauer
>Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
>Allan
>billh#samoatelco.com Bill
>Hyman
>doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
>O'Brien
>manialip#wowmail.com Kate
>Sparks
>francis_uy#yahoo.com
F
>Uy
>Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
>Uthke
>naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
>Weisgerber
>cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
>Nelson
>aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
>Aull
>rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
>Miller
>kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
>Kohli
>helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
>Oney
>cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
>Polk
>rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
>Borseth
>ellis#ftel.net Rick
>Ellis
>vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
>Dura
>Scarecro#ime.net Tim
>Griffin
>jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
>Cornell
>verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
>Verbrugh
>okoboji#prodigy.net
>Loriann=20
>mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
>Badii-Azandahi
>scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
>NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
>Rule
>tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
>Richards
>srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
>Mawhinney
>merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
>Rees
>Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
>Sorenson
>leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
>Towfigh
>
>Abstained
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
>Gennario
>chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
>Zimmerman
>tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
>Roshan-Zamir
>neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
>Crellin
>schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
>Schuette
>rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
>Troxel
>
>Invalid ballots
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
>Afrashteh
> ! Disqualified
>webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
>Abdullah
> ! Ineligible address
>ALTAFH#aol.com
> ! No vote statement in message
>MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
>Boyd
> ! No vote statement in message
>LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
>(1.8c)
> ! No vote statement in message
>lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
>Hollinger
> ! No vote statement in message
>smeanver#tm.net.my
>smeanver
> ! No vote statement in message
>mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
>Bob/Zannie
> ! No vote statement in message
>
>To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
>following command:
>
> sed -e 's/#/@/g'
>
>--
>Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:46 AM
To: Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Ron House
Subject: Fw: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
More benightedness....
-----Original Message-----
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman) <billh@samoatelco.com>
To: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
Cc: dave@dogwood.com <dave@dogwood.com>
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>Dear Mr. Glaysher:
>Your submission containing the results of the CFV for talk.religion.bahai
>will be replaced by the official report which has been requested.
>
>Bill Hyman
>co-moderator
>soc.religion.bahai
>----------
>> From: "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>> To: <bahai-faith@bcca.org>
>> Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:25:58 -0500
>>
>>From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>>Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>>Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:41 PM
>>
>> RESULT
>> unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>>
>>There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
>>votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
>>
>>For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
>>(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
>>than NO votes.
>>
>>A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
>>serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
>>moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
>>thereafter.
>>
>>Newsgroups line:
>>talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
>>
>>Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
>>
>>This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>>about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>>
>>Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>>Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
>>Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>>Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
>>Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
>>Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>>
>>RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
>>
>>The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
>>open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
>>the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
>>
>>The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
>>than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
>>will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
>>opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
>>less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
>>many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
>>to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
>>
>>CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
>>
>>All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
>>teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
>>discussion.
>>
>>Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
>>accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
>>any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
>>criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
>>their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
>>questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
>>question.
>>
>>Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
>>newsgroup.
>>
>>Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
>>start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
>>articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
>>
>>The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
>>prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
>>and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
>>prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
>>HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
>>
>>Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
>>are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
>>cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>>>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
>>
>>END CHARTER.
>>
>>
>>DISTRIBUTION:
>>
>>In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
>>and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
>>
>>Mailing list name: Talisman
>>Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
>>Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
>>
>>Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
>>Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
>>Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
>>
>>Mailing list name: h-Bahai
>>Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
>>Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
>>
>>Mailing list name: bahai-faith
>>Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
>>Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
>>
>>alt.religion
>>soc.religion.eastern
>>soc.religion.gnosis
>>soc.religion.hindu
>>soc.religion.paganism
>>soc.religion.quaker
>>soc.religion.unitarian-univ
>>talk.religion.buddhism
>>talk.religion.newage
>>talk.philosophy.humanism
>>talk.philosophy.misc
>>uk.religion.interfaith
>>uk.religion.misc
>>uk.religion.other-faiths
>>
>>
>>
>>talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
>>
>>Voted YES
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>---
>>garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
>>Garner
>>johnn#mpx.com.au
John
>>New
>>mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
>>Clark
>>house#usq.edu.au Ron
>>House
>>jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
>>Marangella
>>ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
>>House
>>billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
>>Brewer
>>sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
>>Sugimoto
>>crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
>>Leech
>>shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
>>Shaheedi
>>trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
>>Meherally
>>zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
>>Zarepour.
>>narayan123#123india.com Kanva
>>Narayan
>>tierney#alloymail.com Sal
>>Tierney
>>hanv#angelfire.com Haq
>>Hanvey
>>AAli929596#aol.com
Abdulnasser
>>Ali
>>BRaynor781#aol.com
>>CRust60001#aol.com
>>Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
>>Glaysher
>>HANI72#aol.com Hani
>>Ayyad
>>Jimo3#aol.com Jim
>>Overmyer
>>JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
>>Hamilton
>>KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
>>Haines
>>Macho786#aol.com Maaz
>>Khan
>>Member1700#aol.com Anthony
A.
>>Lee
>>PParvin#aol.com
>>RayHanania#aol.com
John
>>Doe
>>RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
>>Nikjoo
>>SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
>>Parent.
>>Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
>>(shaksway)
>>Smastr#aol.com Sam
>>Masters
>>amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
>>Elmasri
>>macleod#beloved.com John
>>MacLeod
>>alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
>>Dawson
>>kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
>>Kindervater
>>tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
>>Buckland
>>sandraa#ccnmail.com
>S.
>>A.
>>habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
>>Abu-Hantash
>>markow#chickmail.com Sassy
>>Markow
>>Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
>>Laudrigan
>>jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
>>Goldberg
>>kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
>>Family
>>eridani#databasix.com
>>Belinda
>>booda#datasync.com Martin H.
>>Booda
>>guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
>>Macon)
>>vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
>>Minai
>>carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
>>Carducci
>>UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
>>Ungarino
>>john_brownston#educastmail.com John
>>Brownston
>>mercado959#email.com Jennifer
>>Mercado
>>edwardiii#england.com
Edward
>>III
>>stomljen#enteract.com Steve
>>Tomljenovic
>>rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
>>Roth
>>alshawa#erols.com Amer
>>Alshawa
>>shaukat#erols.com Khalid
>>Shaukat
>>tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
>>Tutstone
>>lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
>>Lopez
>>umaraadil#excite.com
>> Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
>>Abdullah
>>gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
>>Kerley
>>david#farrar.com David
>>Farrar
>>lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
>>Vendome
>>wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
>>Wilson
>>runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
>>Runchey
>>dave#frackit.com Dave
>>Ratcliffe
>>howie#giantsfan.com Ron
>>Howard
>>kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
>>Kendrick
>>BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
>>Hoyt
>>bjv#herbison.com B.J.
>>Herbison
>>maher#home.com Maher
>Bara
>>kat
>>c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
>>Nunez
>>burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
>>Frade-Burnett
>>shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
>>Husain
>>rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
>>Detweiler
>>rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
>>Shane
>>goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
>>Goodlett
>>takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
>>Takriti
>>hopegartner#iname.com Alice
>>Hopegartner
>>matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
>>Cromer
>>ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
>>Amirazodi
>>muntada#inix.com
>>Rashid
>>jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
>>DeVoto
>>kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
>>Unanda
>>samorgan#java-man.com
>><FONT =
>>r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
>>Rusan
>>Aansari#dc.jones.com
>>Aamir=20
>>o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
>>Kordy
>>Christensen#kansascity.com Len
>>Christensen
>>henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
>>Wadsworth
>>todomanana#latino.com Miguel
>>Hernandez
>>David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
>>Vessell
>>sponseller#lycosmail.com David
>>Sponseller
>>EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
>>Badalian
>>ogreen#mailcity.com
>>Ogreen
>>jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
>>Jensen
>>hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
>>Hoffman
>>cipher#mindspring.com
>>Cipher
>>unrein#cig.mot.com W.
>>Sanders-Unrein
>>billmc#email.msn.com Bill
>>McJohn
>>chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
>>followed
>>olav#viking.mv.com Olav
>>Nieuwejaar
>>hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
>>Shambashi
>>marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
>>Muljadi
>>rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
>>Little
>>sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
>>Sutherland
>>mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
>>Holmes
>>dmarasco#npsnet.com David
>>Marasco
>>cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
>>Gruber
>>jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
>>Tidwell
>>rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
>>Carreiro
>>ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
>>Ellenberg
>>E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
>>Adams
>>MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
>>Raflin
>>robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
>>Warren
>>timken#prontomail.com Ruth
>>Timken
>>Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
>>Ulhaque
>>jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
>>Meller
>>griffin#rednecks.com Bud
>>Griffin
>>chvatel#rotfl.com David
>>Chvatel
>>maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
>>Maruyama
>>harold#shinsato.com Harold
>>Shinsato
>>imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
>>Mufti
>>pan#syix.com
>>Pan
>>s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
>>Humes
>>josephb#tezcat.com Joe
>>Bernstein
>>charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
>><BR>
>>lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
>><BR>
>>AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
>>Riecker
>>smahmud#uop.com Shahid
>>Mahmud
>>lingel#email.women.com Sam
>>Lingel
>>haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
>>Haldi
>>arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
>>Tajarobi
>>galaxy001#yahoo.com
>>j.s.
>>kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
>>Krupowicz
>>nimans#yahoo.com Niman
>>Shukairy
>>padidehjan#yahoo.com
>>PadidehjAn
>>uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
>>Uhler
>>kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
>>Akhtar
>>vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
>>erle
>>indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
>>Poerwanto
>>cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
>>Stone
>>nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
>>McNelly
>>hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
>>Fung
>>jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
>>Deutsch
>>jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
>>Dresner
>>jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
>>Walbridge
>>moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
>>Alatovic
>>osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
>>Osborn
>>akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
>>Akhtar
>>daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
>>Daas
>>wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
>>Khan
>>slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
>>Smith
>>kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
>>Kopetsky
>>DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
>>Ajami
>>fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
>>Baker
>>fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
>>Baker
>>ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
>>Shaikh
>>nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
>>Saleh
>>jrcole#umich.edu Juan
>>Cole
>>nizam#umich.edu Nizam
>>Arain
>>harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
>>Harinath
>>hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
>>Hougen
>>whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
>>Whitling
>>dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
>>Bowie
>>aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
>>Abd-Allah
>>endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
>>Kusumo
>>malo#pop3.utoledo.edu
Mohammed
>>Alo
>>ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu
John
>>Doe
>>pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
>>Johnson
>>aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
>>Ahmed
>>nali#med.wayne.edu
Nasima
>>Ali
>>rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
>>Rufinus
>>Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
>>Wolf
>>vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
>>Saarinen
>>bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
>>McEwan.
>>nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
>>Mastrakoulis
>>khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
>>Yussof
>>rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
>>rahman
>>sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
>>Truto
>>mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
>>Boyer=20
>>davetayl#concentric.net David
>>Taylor
>>islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
>>Ahmed</FONT>
>>booko#earthlink.net Sharon
>>Bouchard
>>oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
>>King
>>ljmoore#freespace.net
>>LarryMoore
>>sas#frontiernet.net
>>Stuart S
>>baird#gate.net Baird
>>Stafford
>>sinanju#gateway.net John
>>Noland
>>lightspring#jps.net Thomas
>>Spellman
>>rreini#mediaone.net Roger
>>Reini
>>peterry#megalink.net
>>Peter=20
>>bmathieu#micron.net Brent
>>Mathieu
>>EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
>>Pierce
>>jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
>>Tymchuk
>>r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
>>Marsou
>>RPittman#postmark.net Richard
>>Pittman
>>trhan#serv.net Teri
>>Rhan
>>alhadid#SoftHome.net
>>Muhammad=20
>>m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
>>Madansky
>>ayloush#usa.net Hussam
>>Ayloush
>>ceo4life#usa.net Harry
>>Clinkhammer
>>Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez
de
>>Cos
>>tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
>>Carter
>>emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
>>Jackson
>>kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
>>Forrest
>>irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
>>Rempt
>>forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
>>Marshall
>>iio#iio.org Islamic Information
>>Office
>>irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
>>Irshad
>>peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
>>Wright
>>barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
>>Barthelmes
>>andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
>>Gierth
>>neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
>>kelley
>>Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
>>Chambers
>>SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
>>SamTHEMan
>>
>>Voted NO
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>---
>>mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
>>Mansouri
>>dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
>>Steyaert
>>carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
>>Bowie
>>towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
>>Towfiq
>>AErfani#aol.com
>>Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
>>Jenkins
>>Mac0000013#aol.com
>>Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
>>Mayerovitch
>>kimdv#best.com Kim
>>DeVaughn
>>stainles#bga.com Dwight
>>Brown
>>david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
>>Ritscher
>>r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
>>Butson
>>lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
>>Smith
>>camm#enhanced.com Camm
>>Maguire
>>caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary
Enoch
>>R.)
>>wcol#erols.com William
>>Collins
>>tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
>>Hodges
>>aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
>>Williams
>>bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
>>Rosenbaum
>>fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
>>Fazlollahi
>>rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
>>McClendon
>>screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
>>Banshee
>>swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
>>Tague
>>jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com
Jim
>>Jam
>>nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
>>Myers
>>shohre#itis.com Shohreh
>>Mansouri
>>bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
>>Limber
>>lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
>>Polk
>>palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
>>Blanford
>>djull#mindspring.com David
>>Jull
>>slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
>>McCoy
>>bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
>>Walker
>>chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
>>Ebenezer
>>dc#panix.com David W.
>>Crawford
>>persia#persia.com Robert
>>Moldenhauer
>>Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
>>Allan
>>billh#samoatelco.com Bill
>>Hyman
>>doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
>>O'Brien
>>manialip#wowmail.com Kate
>>Sparks
>>francis_uy#yahoo.com
>F
>>Uy
>>Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
>>Uthke
>>naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
>>Weisgerber
>>cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
>>Nelson
>>aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
>>Aull
>>rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
>>Miller
>>kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
>>Kohli
>>helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
>>Oney
>>cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
>>Polk
>>rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
>>Borseth
>>ellis#ftel.net Rick
>>Ellis
>>vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
>>Dura
>>Scarecro#ime.net Tim
>>Griffin
>>jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
>>Cornell
>>verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
>>Verbrugh
>>okoboji#prodigy.net
>>Loriann=20
>>mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
>>Badii-Azandahi
>>scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
>>NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
>>Rule
>>tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
>>Richards
>>srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
>>Mawhinney
>>merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
>>Rees
>>Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
>>Sorenson
>>leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
>>Towfigh
>>
>>Abstained
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>---
>>sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
>>Gennario
>>chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
>>Zimmerman
>>tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
>>Roshan-Zamir
>>neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
>>Crellin
>>schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
>>Schuette
>>rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
>>Troxel
>>
>>Invalid ballots
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>-
>>---
>>afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
>>Afrashteh
>> ! Disqualified
>>webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
>>Abdullah
>> ! Ineligible address
>>ALTAFH#aol.com
>> ! No vote statement in message
>>MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
>>Boyd
>> ! No vote statement in message
>>LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
>>(1.8c)
>> ! No vote statement in message
>>lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
>>Hollinger
>> ! No vote statement in message
>>smeanver#tm.net.my
>>smeanver
>> ! No vote statement in message
>>mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
>>Bob/Zannie
>> ! No vote statement in message
>>
>>To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
>>following command:
>>
>> sed -e 's/#/@/g'
>>
>>--
>>Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>>Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
>>
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:46 AM
To: Fran Baker; Frank Baker; Ron House
Subject: Fw: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
The coup de grace....
-----Original Message-----
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman) <billh@samoatelco.com>
To: dave@dogwood.com <dave@dogwood.com>
Cc: srb <srb-mods@bcca.org>
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 9:24 PM
Subject: FW: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>Dear Mr. Cornejo:
>
>I have been forwarded the results of the CFV for talk.religion.bahai, by
Mr.
>Glaysher, one of the proponents. I have no problem with posting the
results,
>but query posting the Rationale and the Charter, which have already been
>posted on srb, but were included with the results. I consider that posting
>how individuals voted is also questionable unless each voter's permission
>has been obtained.I have placed these matters under advisement with the
rest
>of the moderating team, but I would like your views on the subject before
we
>make a decision.
>
>Many thanks,
>Bill Hyman
>co-moderator
>soc.religion.bahai
>----------
>From: "Frederick Glaysher" <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>To: <bahai-faith@bcca.org>
>Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:25:58 -0500
>
>From: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>Subject: RESULT: talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 10:41 PM
>
> RESULT
> unmoderated group talk.religion.bahai passes 218:63
>
>There were 218 YES votes and 63 NO votes, for a total of 281 valid
>votes. There were 6 abstentions and 8 invalid ballots.
>
>For a group to pass, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid
>(YES and NO) votes. There must also be at least 100 more YES votes
>than NO votes.
>
>A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
>serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
>moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly
>thereafter.
>
>Newsgroups line:
>talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
>
>Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 25 Dec 1998.
>
>This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
>about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
>
>Proponent: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
>Proponent: Ron House <house@usq.edu.au>
>Proponent: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: Frank Baker <fbaker@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
>Proponent: John Walker <johnwalker@ozemail.com.au>
>Votetaker: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>
>RATIONALE: talk.religion.bahai
>
>The newsgroup talk.religion.bahai is proposed to meet the need for an
>open and unmoderated forum for discussion of the Baha'i Faith within
>the structure of the Big 8 hierarchies.
>
>The proponents intend that talk.religion.bahai will complement, rather
>than supplant, the existing moderated group soc.religion.bahai, and
>will provide those without access to alt.religion.bahai the
>opportunity to participate. It is noted that the alt.* hierarchy is
>less well propagated than the talk.* hierarchy; this has meant that
>many people who have voted YES on earlier proposals have been unable
>to join discussions on alt.religion.bahai.
>
>CHARTER: talk.religion.bahai
>
>All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
>teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
>discussion.
>
>Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
>accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
>any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
>criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
>their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
>questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
>question.
>
>Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
>newsgroup.
>
>Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
>start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
>articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
>
>The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
>prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
>and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
>prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
>HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
>
>Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
>are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
>cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
>
>END CHARTER.
>
>
>DISTRIBUTION:
>
>In addition to the groups named in the Newsgroups: header, the CFV
>and the eventual RESULT posts will be mailed to these mailing lists:
>
>Mailing list name: Talisman
>Submission address: talisman@umich.edu
>Request address: jsgreen@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: Bahai Studies
>Submission address: bahai-st@johnco.cc.ks.us
>Request address: major@johnco.cc.ks.us
>
>Mailing list name: h-Bahai
>Submission address: h-Bahai@h-net.msu.edu
>Request address: jrcole@umich.edu
>
>Mailing list name: bahai-faith
>Submission address: bahai-faith@egroups.com
>Request address: bahai-faith-subscribe@egroups.com
>
>Pointers directing readers to this CFV will be posted in these groups:
>
>alt.religion
>soc.religion.eastern
>soc.religion.gnosis
>soc.religion.hindu
>soc.religion.paganism
>soc.religion.quaker
>soc.religion.unitarian-univ
>talk.religion.buddhism
>talk.religion.newage
>talk.philosophy.humanism
>talk.philosophy.misc
>uk.religion.interfaith
>uk.religion.misc
>uk.religion.other-faiths
>
>
>
>talk.religion.bahai Final Voter list
>
>Voted YES
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>garner#looksmart.com.au Rena
>Garner
>johnn#mpx.com.au John
>New
>mclark#tpgi.com.au Martin
>Clark
>house#usq.edu.au Ron
>House
>jmara#cyllene.uwa.edu.au Joel Jani
>Marangella
>ghous#osr.nsw.gov.au Gitie
>House
>billbrwr#compusmart.ab.ca Bill
>Brewer
>sugimotm#cuug.ab.ca Mike
>Sugimoto
>crleech#freenet.carleton.ca Colin R.
>Leech
>shaheedi#nbnet.nb.ca Afzal
>Shaheedi
>trustone#bc.sympatico.ca Akbarally
>Meherally
>zarepour#mathstat.uottawa.ca Mahmoud
>Zarepour.
>narayan123#123india.com Kanva
>Narayan
>tierney#alloymail.com Sal
>Tierney
>hanv#angelfire.com Haq
>Hanvey
>AAli929596#aol.com Abdulnasser
>Ali
>BRaynor781#aol.com
>CRust60001#aol.com
>Fglaysher#aol.com Frederick
>Glaysher
>HANI72#aol.com Hani
>Ayyad
>Jimo3#aol.com Jim
>Overmyer
>JoySafari#aol.com Marcella
>Hamilton
>KevinEco#aol.com Kevin
>Haines
>Macho786#aol.com Maaz
>Khan
>Member1700#aol.com Anthony A.
>Lee
>PParvin#aol.com
>RayHanania#aol.com John
>Doe
>RobertNik#aol.com Robert S
>Nikjoo
>SAMaso#aol.com J. Eddie
>Parent.
>Shaksway#aol.com jim Davis
>(shaksway)
>Smastr#aol.com Sam
>Masters
>amasri#dcn.att.com Ala'a
>Elmasri
>macleod#beloved.com John
>MacLeod
>alexdawson#bigfoot.com Alex
>Dawson
>kindervater#businessweekmail.com "Doc"
>Kindervater
>tom4#canoemail.com Thomas
>Buckland
>sandraa#ccnmail.com
S.
>A.
>habuhant#CH2M.com Haytham
>Abu-Hantash
>markow#chickmail.com Sassy
>Markow
>Laudrigan#collegeclub.com Bud
>Laudrigan
>jgoldberg#condolawyers.com Jeffrey A.
>Goldberg
>kathleenm#cybertrails.com McKibben
>Family
>eridani#databasix.com
>Belinda
>booda#datasync.com Martin H.
>Booda
>guymacon#deltanet.com guymacon#deltanet.com (Guy
>Macon)
>vminai#spd.dsccc.com Viqar
>Minai
>carducci#easypost.com Ladislaus
>Carducci
>UNGARINO#ECardMail.Com Eleanor
>Ungarino
>john_brownston#educastmail.com John
>Brownston
>mercado959#email.com Jennifer
>Mercado
>edwardiii#england.com Edward
>III
>stomljen#enteract.com Steve
>Tomljenovic
>rothbrian#mail.entrepreneurmag.com Brian
>Roth
>alshawa#erols.com Amer
>Alshawa
>shaukat#erols.com Khalid
>Shaukat
>tutstone#eudoramail.com Marlene
>Tutstone
>lopezaz#excite.com Jaime
>Lopez
>umaraadil#excite.com
> Umar Aadil Abdul Rahman McKloskey
>Abdullah
>gkerley#execpc.com Gillam
>Kerley
>david#farrar.com David
>Farrar
>lucie_vendome#fcmail.com Lucie
>Vendome
>wilsonj#flashemail.com Jack
>Wilson
>runchey467#fnmail.com Jeff
>Runchey
>dave#frackit.com Dave
>Ratcliffe
>howie#giantsfan.com Ron
>Howard
>kendrick64#GNWMail.com Steve
>Kendrick
>BHoyt#goplay.com Brian
>Hoyt
>bjv#herbison.com B.J.
>Herbison
>maher#home.com Maher
Bara
>kat
>c.nunez#hotbot.com Cindy
>Nunez
>burnettcj#hotmail.com Clara
>Frade-Burnett
>shakir_husain#hotmail.com Shakir
>Husain
>rdetweil#boi.hp.com Dick
>Detweiler
>rshane#us.ibm.com Randall
>Shane
>goodlett#ignmail.com Jim
>Goodlett
>takriti#ihorizons.com Mohamad
>Takriti
>hopegartner#iname.com Alice
>Hopegartner
>matthew_cromer#iname.com Matthew
>Cromer
>ramirazodi#iname.com Roohi
>Amirazodi
>muntada#inix.com
>Rashid
>jaed#jaedworks.com Jeanne A. E.
>DeVoto
>kwame#jahoopa.com Kwame
>Unanda
>samorgan#java-man.com
><FONT =
>r_lee#jerusalemail.com Lee
>Rusan
>Aansari#dc.jones.com
>Aamir=20
>o_elkordy#juno.com Omar El
>Kordy
>Christensen#kansascity.com Len
>Christensen
>henry42#mail.kmsp.com Henry
>Wadsworth
>todomanana#latino.com Miguel
>Hernandez
>David.Vessell#lpcorp.com David L.
>Vessell
>sponseller#lycosmail.com David
>Sponseller
>EdythBadalian#MailAndNews.com Edyth
>Badalian
>ogreen#mailcity.com
>Ogreen
>jensen29#mailtag.com Edward
>Jensen
>hoffman#mailwire.com Larry
>Hoffman
>cipher#mindspring.com
>Cipher
>unrein#cig.mot.com W.
>Sanders-Unrein
>billmc#email.msn.com Bill
>McJohn
>chesshazlett#email.msn.com " and be immediately
>followed
>olav#viking.mv.com Olav
>Nieuwejaar
>hyle#my-dejanews.com Sohayl
>Shambashi
>marifok#my-dejanews.com Arif
>Muljadi
>rlittle33#my-dejanews.com Robert
>Little
>sutherland55#netradiomail.com Lisa
>Sutherland
>mirele#newsguy.com Deana M.
>Holmes
>dmarasco#npsnet.com David
>Marasco
>cgruber#us.oracle.com Christian Edward
>Gruber
>jtidwell#animato.pn.com Jenifer P.
>Tidwell
>rlcarr#animato.pn.com Rich
>Carreiro
>ellenberg#popmail.com Jane
>Ellenberg
>E.Adams#pousa.com Eileen
>Adams
>MRaflin#PREMIER-OIL.com Muhammad
>Raflin
>robertwarren#prontomail.com Robert
>Warren
>timken#prontomail.com Ruth
>Timken
>Safir_Ulhaque#raytheon.com Safir
>Ulhaque
>jasonmeller#recyclermail.com Jason
>Meller
>griffin#rednecks.com Bud
>Griffin
>chvatel#rotfl.com David
>Chvatel
>maruyama#sacbeemail.com Victor
>Maruyama
>harold#shinsato.com Harold
>Shinsato
>imran#spsnet.com Imran A.
>Mufti
>pan#syix.com
>Pan
>s.humes#talk21.com Shirley
>Humes
>josephb#tezcat.com Joe
>Bernstein
>charlotte#thedorm.com Charlotte
><BR>
>lininger#theheadoffice.com Lininger
><BR>
>AlvartRiecker#unbounded.com Alvart
>Riecker
>smahmud#uop.com Shahid
>Mahmud
>lingel#email.women.com Sam
>Lingel
>haldi#worldmailer.com Kenneth
>Haldi
>arman_taj#yahoo.com Arman
>Tajarobi
>galaxy001#yahoo.com
>j.s.
>kruposki#yahoo.com Andrew
>Krupowicz
>nimans#yahoo.com Niman
>Shukairy
>padidehjan#yahoo.com
>PadidehjAn
>uhler668#yahoo.com Nancy
>Uhler
>kakhtar#yours.com Khalid
>Akhtar
>vote#kholdan.snafu.de tobias
>erle
>indratmoko.poerwanto#heim6.tu-clausthal.de Indratmoko
>Poerwanto
>cstone#uclink4.berkeley.edu Chris
>Stone
>nmcnelly#bu.edu N.A.F.
>McNelly
>hfung#CSUPomona.Edu Henry
>Fung
>jdeutsch#osf1.gmu.edu Jeffrey
>Deutsch
>jdresner#fas.harvard.edu Jonathan
>Dresner
>jwalbrid#indiana.edu John
>Walbridge
>moslem#MIT.EDU Tarik
>Alatovic
>osborndo#pilot.msu.edu Donald Z
>Osborn
>akhtars#ee.eng.ohio-state.edu Siraj
>Akhtar
>daas#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Mutaz
>Daas
>wajahat#bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu Wajahat A
>Khan
>slipstk#olemiss.edu Gordon
>Smith
>kopetsbj#cs.purdue.edu Brett J.
>Kopetsky
>DELETE_Massoud.Ajami#sdsu.edu Massoud
>Ajami
>fran#crhc.uiuc.edu Frances R.
>Baker
>fbaker#ncsa.uiuc.edu Frank
>Baker
>ashaikh#eecs.umich.edu Anees
>Shaikh
>nedsaleh#engin.umich.edu Nedal
>Saleh
>jrcole#umich.edu Juan
>Cole
>nizam#umich.edu Nizam
>Arain
>harinath#cs.umn.edu Raja R
>Harinath
>hougen#cs.umn.edu Dean
>Hougen
>whitl005#tc.umn.edu Jonathan R
>Whitling
>dbowie#sas.upenn.edu David
>Bowie
>aabdalla#pollux.usc.edu Ahmed
>Abd-Allah
>endro#sys3.cs.usu.edu Endro
>Kusumo
>malo#pop3.utoledo.edu Mohammed
>Alo
>ASyamil#uoft02.utoledo.edu John
>Doe
>pjohnson#vsla.edu K. Paul
>Johnson
>aahmed#biology.biosci.wayne.edu Aamina
>Ahmed
>nali#med.wayne.edu Nasima
>Ali
>rufinus#mbe.ece.wisc.edu J
>Rufinus
>Paul.S.Wolf#alum.wpi.edu Paul S.
>Wolf
>vsaarine#cs.Helsinki.FI Vesa
>Saarinen
>bmcewan#healthnet.mrc.gm Bob
>McEwan.
>nmas#otenet.gr Nikos
>Mastrakoulis
>khairol#tm.net.my Khairol Azmi
>Yussof
>rinerin#tm.net.my shahrin shah bin abdul
>rahman
>sl1pbx#ameritech.net Gene
>Truto
>mbkafes#bestweb.net Milissa
>Boyer=20
>davetayl#concentric.net David
>Taylor
>islam662#CSSN.NET Sabeel
>Ahmed</FONT>
>booko#earthlink.net Sharon
>Bouchard
>oreocat#ETINTERNET.NET Gary L.
>King
>ljmoore#freespace.net
>LarryMoore
>sas#frontiernet.net
>Stuart S
>baird#gate.net Baird
>Stafford
>sinanju#gateway.net John
>Noland
>lightspring#jps.net Thomas
>Spellman
>rreini#mediaone.net Roger
>Reini
>peterry#megalink.net
>Peter=20
>bmathieu#micron.net Brent
>Mathieu
>EPierce#ns.net Eric D.
>Pierce
>jonboy#onlink.net Trevor
>Tymchuk
>r.marsou#pmail.net Robert
>Marsou
>RPittman#postmark.net Richard
>Pittman
>trhan#serv.net Teri
>Rhan
>alhadid#SoftHome.net
>Muhammad=20
>m-t-head#surfari.net Lloyd
>Madansky
>ayloush#usa.net Hussam
>Ayloush
>ceo4life#usa.net Harry
>Clinkhammer
>Toadis#usa.net Andres Gutierrez de
>Cos
>tommycarter#usa.net Tommy
>Carter
>emilyjackson#webtv.net Emily
>Jackson
>kaitlin_forrest#zensearch.net Kaitlin
>Forrest
>irina#rempt.xs4all.nl Irina
>Rempt
>forumbahai#es.co.nz Steve
>Marshall
>iio#iio.org Islamic Information
>Office
>irshad#irshad.org Muhammad
>Irshad
>peewee#scc.mi.org Jason
>Wright
>barthelmes#studentcenter.org Sophia
>Barthelmes
>andrew#erlenstar.demon.co.uk Andrew
>Gierth
>neil#nkelley.demon.co.uk neil
>kelley
>Chambers#fetchmail.co.uk Scott
>Chambers
>SamtheMan#postmaster.co.uk
>SamTHEMan
>
>Voted NO
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>mansouri#one.net.au Shahab
>Mansouri
>dany.steyaert#ping.be Dany
>Steyaert
>carol_bowie#mindlink.bc.ca David
>Bowie
>towfiq#401kforum.com Mark
>Towfiq
>AErfani#aol.com
>Hlpflhanna#aol.com Debbie
>Jenkins
>Mac0000013#aol.com
>Starlet001#aol.com Katherine
>Mayerovitch
>kimdv#best.com Kim
>DeVaughn
>stainles#bga.com Dwight
>Brown
>david.ritscher#bigfoot.com David
>Ritscher
>r.woodlock#bigfoot.com Rachel
>Butson
>lcs#zk3.dec.com Larry
>Smith
>camm#enhanced.com Camm
>Maguire
>caryenochr#enochsvision.com Enoch's Vision, Inc. (Cary Enoch
>R.)
>wcol#erols.com William
>Collins
>tom-hodges#geocities.com Tom
>Hodges
>aromatica45#hotmail.com Victoria
>Williams
>bearone1#hotmail.com Gary
>Rosenbaum
>fazlollahi#hotmail.com Ahmad
>Fazlollahi
>rachel_t#hotmail.com Theresa
>McClendon
>screamingb#hotmail.com Screaming
>Banshee
>swatchking#hotmail.com Fred
>Tague
>jjam#spica.hpl.hp.com Jim
>Jam
>nightbrd#humboldt1.com Douglas
>Myers
>shohre#itis.com Shohreh
>Mansouri
>bruce.limber#juno.com Bruce D.
>Limber
>lpolk01#juno.com Linda L
>Polk
>palmtop#mailtag.com Bonnie
>Blanford
>djull#mindspring.com David
>Jull
>slr1bpz#mindspring.com George
>McCoy
>bfwkendo#netvigator.com Brian
>Walker
>chriseb#nortelnetworks.com Chris
>Ebenezer
>dc#panix.com David W.
>Crawford
>persia#persia.com Robert
>Moldenhauer
>Sandy-Allan#dial.pipex.com Sandy
>Allan
>billh#samoatelco.com Bill
>Hyman
>doug.obrien#the-spa.com Doug
>O'Brien
>manialip#wowmail.com Kate
>Sparks
>francis_uy#yahoo.com
F
>Uy
>Ekkehard.Uthke#gmx.de Ekkehard
>Uthke
>naddy#mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian
>Weisgerber
>cnelson#calpoly.edu Craig
>Nelson
>aull#ll.mit.edu Brian
>Aull
>rick#bcm.tmc.edu Richard H.
>Miller
>kohli#mail.ameritel.net Pat
>Kohli
>helenko#bellsouth.net Helen
>Oney
>cybrmage#dave-world.net Bud
>Polk
>rogerb#foxinternet.net Roger
>Borseth
>ellis#ftel.net Rick
>Ellis
>vpdura#hiwaay.net Vic
>Dura
>Scarecro#ime.net Tim
>Griffin
>jcornell#lightspeed.net John B.
>Cornell
>verbrugh#pionet.net Albert
>Verbrugh
>okoboji#prodigy.net
>Loriann=20
>mehyar22#siol.net Mehyar
>Badii-Azandahi
>scooter#taranaki.ac.nz
>NUFAITH#wcnet.org Dennis
>Rule
>tr8770#bristol.ac.uk Tom
>Richards
>srm103#york.ac.uk Simon
>Mawhinney
>merlin#A470.demon.co.uk Darren Wyn
>Rees
>Graham#fragrant.demon.co.uk Graham
>Sorenson
>leili#Justice.Medford.MA.US Leili
>Towfigh
>
>Abstained
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>sw.unit02.msn#cwix.com Sue Klein
>Gennario
>chris#kzim.com Christopher Robin
>Zimmerman
>tikal#mailcity.com Samandar
>Roshan-Zamir
>neilc#wallaby.stanford.edu Neil
>Crellin
>schuette#s.imap.itd.umich.edu Wade
>Schuette
>rick#helix.nih.gov Rick
>Troxel
>
>Invalid ballots
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>---
>afshin.afrashteh#utoronto.ca Afshin
>Afrashteh
> ! Disqualified
>webmaster#muntada.com Abdul-Rashid
>Abdullah
> ! Ineligible address
>ALTAFH#aol.com
> ! No vote statement in message
>MeCraigB#aol.com Craig
>Boyd
> ! No vote statement in message
>LISTSERV#H-NET.MSU.EDU L-Soft list server at H-Net - Humanities On-Line
>(1.8c)
> ! No vote statement in message
>lbhollin#ust.hk Richard
>Hollinger
> ! No vote statement in message
>smeanver#tm.net.my
>smeanver
> ! No vote statement in message
>mezmer#globalnet.co.uk
>Bob/Zannie
> ! No vote statement in message
>
>To restore the email addresses above, pipe the ack list through the
>following command:
>
> sed -e 's/#/@/g'
>
>--
>Voting question & problems: Dave Cornejo <dave@dogwood.com>
>Voting address: vote@dogwood.com
>
>
>
>
----------
From: McKenny Michael[SMTP:bn872@freenet.carleton.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 11:02 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: TRB
Greetings, Frederick.
Thanks for your comment.
Well, whether others say anything nice or not, the credit is yours
and the newsgroup has the potential to exert a beneficial influence, a
bit like a free press in a totalitarian state. Personally, I'm pretty
busy with many other things, and doubt I'll post much. Yet, I hope the
free flow of information will be very helpful.
Thanks again for such persistence in the face of such adversity.
May this find you with everything going well, and may the future
be ever better than what it replaces.
All the Best,
Michael
>
>Thanks, Michael. You're one of the very few who have
>said anything nice about it, as you might imagine....
>
>
--
"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
(Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: talk.religion.bahai
Kathy I. Morgan wrote in message
<1dlvabi.nhv2ie1b6aq8qN@dialups-50.tok.ptialaska.net>...
>
>The newsgroup is now available on the NewsGuy server, which doesn't
>honor the bogus newgroup messages, so it is official now. The official
>newgroup messages are signed with PGP, so servers which check for
>validity are able to tell the difference.
Thanks for letting us know.
Thanks again to everyone on news.groups.
Best wishes....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 1:28 PM
To: talisman; bahai-faith @ egroups.com
Subject: talk.religion.bahai now available
Talk.religion.bahai does now seem to be available
with several new posts to it.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 1:28 PM
Subject: talk.religion.bahai now available
Talk.religion.bahai does now seem to be available
with several new posts to it.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: talk.religion.bahai now available
It might be necessary to reset or redownload your
newsgroups list or file to receive it.
>Talk.religion.bahai does now seem to be available
>with several new posts to it.
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 7:34 AM
Subject: cmsg newgroup talk.religion.bahai
WWW.dejanews.com is already archiving talk.religion.bahai.
David Lawrence's control message is below or at the link
given:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=434147783&CONTEXT=916831681.318373975&hi
tnum=20
cmsg newgroup talk.religion.bahai
Author: David C Lawrence <group-admin@isc.org>
Date: 1999/01/18
Forum: talk.religion.bahai
more headers author posting history
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
talk.religion.bahai is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for
creation by 218:63 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 11 Jan 1999.
For your newsgroups file:
talk.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith.
The charter, culled from the vote result announcement:
All topics or ideas relevant to the Baha'i faith -- its history,
teachings, theology, etc. -- would be appropriate areas for
discussion.
Talk.religion.bahai fills the need for a fully open and universally
accessible Internet forum about the Baha'i Faith. Postings may take
any point of view with regard to the Baha'i Faith. While this allows
criticism, it also fully opens the door for enquirers to see with
their own eyes and not through the eyes of their neighbors, asking
questions and reading replies from anyone who is interested in their
question.
Readers are asked to observe standard netiquette in their use of this
newsgroup.
Readers are asked to observe Baha'i standards of conduct and not to
start or prolong flamewars in the group, but to focus instead on
articles and threads written in more moderate terms.
The posting of articles not relevant to the Baha'i Faith is
prohibited. Large ASCII graphics, large binaries, pornography, spam,
and any postings of a purely personal or commercial nature are
prohibited. To facilitate viewing in news readers that are not
HTML-capable, HTML-formatted postings are strongly discouraged.
Cross-posting to irrelevant groups is also discouraged, and readers
are encouraged to redirect follow-ups to reduce excessive
cross-posting. Readers may also post articles that have been rejected
>from soc.religion.bahai, so long as they conform to this charter.
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 7:38 AM
Subject: Antinomies - Frodo
Frodo:
"But I have been too deeply hurt, Sam. I tried to save the Shire,
and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam,
when things are in danger; some one has to give them up, lose
them, so that others may keep them. But you are my heir...."
J.R.R. Tolkien
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:04 AM
To: Juan Cole
Subject: Maneck again; trb now available
If you wish, you could respond to her on trb.... I'm a little
weary of playing the messenger.
Subject: Re: fw 2nd Juan Cole on mass teaching
Date: 1/19/1999 3:47 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Smaneck
Message-id: <19990119154759.01069.00001016@ng-fi1.aol.com>
DR Cole writes:
>>1) I have never said that the motive or even a motive of the NSA in
>>closing down the mass teaching in the South in the early '70s was
'racism.'
But then goes on to say of one of the members of that institution:
>the interviewing I've done
>>with people who knew her leads me strongly to suspect that her quietism
>>acted as a screen for discomfort with uppity Blacks.
Does anyone but me see a contradiction between those two statements? Why
would one even bring this into the discussion if one did not feel it
impacted the NSA's decision?
But I can do no better here than to quote the statement of one Baha'i on
arb:
"The implication of racism seems abundantly clear to me. For someone to
halt
the influx of membership because the race of the people entering the
orgainzation "challenged their system of control mechanisms" is the very
definition of racism."
As evidence that the NSA was concerned with their re-election prospects Juan
writes:
>>2) Bill Davis in one of his interrogations of the Dialogue editors in
>>spring, 1988, specifically said that the NSA had been worried that 'A
>>Modest Proposal' might come across to the delegates as a critique of the
>>sitting NSA's record (enrollments had fallen off drastically and
>virtually
>>no money was being put into teaching), and cost some of them election.
My recollection is that Bill Davis' concern was not articulated in this way.
He believed that the desire to distribute the paper to the delegates
represented an attempt to manipulate the elections. From the standpoint of
the NSA there was concern that this represented a form of campaigning
forbidden in the Baha'i electoral process.
>>Only the poor naifs who have never actually had anything serious to do
with
>>Wilmette are under the impression that no NSA member cares if he or she is
>>reelected.
Not the issue. The issue is whether such personal considerations, whether
or not they might exist, swayed the decisions of the NSA such that they
would have attempted to call a halt to mass teaching in order to stop an
influx of black believers who might shake the status quo. Even if the NSA
members were as enamored with their position as Dr. Cole would have us
believe, such an action would have been totally illogical. Dr. Cole knows
as well as I
that people brought in through mass teaching efforts rarely vote in Baha'i
elections. Not in the US not elsewhere. As we've seen even ex-Baha'is like
Larry who had seen the aftermath of mass teaching projects were prepared to
attest that this is so. India is the area with the most experience with
mass teaching. Both Dr. Cole and myself have conducted research in India so
we are both well informed of the situation there. In a few decades the size
of the Baha'i community grew from a few thousand to millions. Along with
this increase in numbers was a fast shift in the demographic makeup of the
community. Hitherto it had been made up of middle class urbanites mostly of
Zoroastrian and Muslim background, with a few Hindu intellectuals. As a
result of mass teaching the majority of Baha'is are now of Hindu background,
often tribals or untouchables. This vast demographic shift seems to have
little effect at the level of administration, where things still tend to be
dominated by these same urbanite Baha'is often of Irani Zoroastrian
extraction, who controlled things previously.
>Some of these elected officials are drawing substantial money
>>out of the faith.
I believe only four members of the current NSA are drawing any kind of
salary. There were even fewer in the early seventies, which is the period
we are talking about.
>The men all think they have a shot at getting elected to
>>the UHJ, and moving up to salaries in the large six figures as well as
>>enormous power in a community of 3 million.
Oh my, *all* the men think they have a shot at this? I'd sure like to see
the evidence for this. Remember, since we are talking about "all the men"
we have to have more evidence than an anecdotal story about one member.
Also, I'd like to see the evidence that members of the House of Justice
receive six digit salaries.
>>3) I have never called 'the Baha'i faith' a 'cult' globally.
On July 31, 1996 Dr. Cole wrote me the following: "This thing is a
totalitarian cult, Susan; it destroys any thinking person who becomes active
in it. Be careful." The title of Dr. Cole's article in the JSSR was to
have been "Sects, Cults and Asian Religions: The Baha'i Faith in America as
Panopticon, 1963-1996." I'm sure I can find other instances of this, if I
had the time to look.
>But using these new critiques, by someone now an outsider, to
>>justify the initial assault is like saying the victim of an attempted rape
>>provoked the rape when she sprayed mace at her assailant.
Not a good analogy. A better one would be this: if a woman accuses another
person of rape and then goes on to tell fantastic and impossible stories
about her so-called assailant, how credible is her witness to the original
crime?
Dr. Cole has given us here an example of his "scholarship" where the
flimsiest evidence was being adduced, as Bruce points out, clearly to
further a political agenda. From what I've seen of the Talisman archives,
what Dr. Cole is doing now he was doing then, howbeit somewhat less
hysterically.
>>What does it mean that this so-called 'counterfeit' authority was being
>>lent to an enterprise that was 'self-motivated?'
It means people were using their authority as scholars to try and remake the
Faith in their own image. Seems pretty clear to me, although perhaps it
would not have six months earlier. The House of Justice had told me in
their July 20, 1997 letter that I was being handed a crock of manure. I
didn't believe them. So Baha'u'llah spent the next six months rubbing my
nose in it. Eventually, I got the "whiff."
> In a hundred years people will still be reading
>>my book on Baha'u'llah. In a hundred years no one will have heard of any
>>of the current House members
Modest, aren't we? :-^)
>>Again, the UHJ is not empowered to stand in judgment of the character of
>>Baha'is
It is empowered to stand in judgment, period. According to the Will and
Testament:
"Whatsoever they decide is of God. Whoso obeyeth him not, neither obeyeth
them, hath not obeyed God; whoso rebelleth against him and against them hath
rebelled against God; whoso opposeth him hath opposed God; whoso contendeth
with them hath contended with God; whoso disputeth with him hath disputed
with God; whoso denieth him hath denied God; whoso disbelieveth in him hath
disbelieved in God; whoso deviateth, separateth himself and turneth aside
from him hath in truth deviated, separated himself and turned aside from
God. May the wrath, the fierce indignation, the vengeance of God rest upon
him!"
and
"Unto the Most Holy Book every one must turn, and all that is not expressly
recorded therein must be referred to the Universal House of Justice. That
which this body, whether unanimously or by a majority doth carry, that is
verily the truth and the purpose of God Himself. Whoso doth deviate
therefrom is verily of them that love discord, hath shown forth malice, and
turned away from the Lord of the Covenant."
Juan writes:
>It can only sanction actual behavior, not
>>sincere non-authoritative expressions of individual conscience.
However, 'Abdul-Baha writes:
"To none is given the right to put forth his own opinion or express his
particular conviction. All must seek guidance and turn unto the Center of
the Cause and the House of Justice. And he that turneth unto whatsoever else
is indeed in grievous error."
Now as we have already discussed "opinion" in this case largely revolves
around expressing opinions in matters of Baha'i law which go against the
interpretations of the Guardian and the rulings of the House of Justice. It
does not prohibit the expression of individual views (nazar) in general.
But in many instances Dr. Cole was engaging in the former rather than the
latter. In the case of the review he had been actively seeking to persuade
people
to boycott the review process. In other cases he had been encouraging
agitation against various decisions on the part of the House of Justice.
I submit that such behavior clearly constitutes *ra'i* in the explicit sense
that it was intended in the Will and Testament.
warmest,
Susan Maneck
"Lay not aside the fear of God, O ye the learned of the world, and judge
fairly"
Gleanings, p. 98
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:22 AM
To: bahai-faith @ egroups.com
Subject: [bahai-faith] 20 subscribers on bahai-faith@egroups.com
<<File: [bahai-faith] 20 subscribers on bahai-faith@egroups.com.htm>>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:22 AM
To: bahai-faith @ egroups.com
Subject: 20 subscribers on bahai-faith@egroups.com
There are currently 20 subscribers on bahai-faith:
Member Label Since Mode
aborzo@hotmail.com (alias borzo) 09/22/98 e-mail
amy-n-ezra@mindspring.com (Amy & Ezra Libowsky) 01/12/99 e-mail
bintyaya@aol.com 05/11/98 e-mail
dmarasco@npsnet.com 10/09/98 Web
ewl@harvey.lib.il.us 01/08/99 e-mail
fglaysher@hotmail.com (Frederick Glaysher) 04/15/98 e-mail
harris632@aol.com 04/18/98 e-mail
house@usq.edu.au (Ron House) 05/19/98 e-mail
kathleenm@cybertrails.com (McKibben Family) 10/08/98 e-mail
laaeterna@aol.com 04/18/98 e-mail
mjavid@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Mesbah Javid) 05/16/98 e-mail
musdrava@c3.hu (Dráva Múzeum) 12/17/98 e-mail
rbccrc@bellatlantic.net 09/29/98 Web
seanm@bwc.org 11/20/98 e-mail
shadab7@hotmail.com (hamid keshavarz) 11/15/98 e-mail
silverwings@montana.com 09/25/98 e-mail
stephenb@polarnet.ca 04/20/98 e-mail
tracid@idirect.com 01/19/99 e-mail
whitbrandt@mailcity.com (John Whitbrandt) 05/16/98 e-mail
xto73@dial.pipex.com 08/10/98 e-mail
Talk.religion.bahai is now available. You may have to
reset or redownload the list or file of newsgroups from your
ISP in order to subscribe to it. Since the purpose of the this
mailing list was to help those unable to follow the discussion
on alt.religion.bahai to do so until trb was formed, it is no
longer needed.
I will be deleting it as a viable mailing list in just a few minutes.
If any of you wish to continue it, you have everyone's address
above with which to do so. Please do not include me.
Thank you one and all for participating!
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: talk.religion.bahai RESULT on soc.religion.bahai?
The RESULT was posted on January 10th by the votetaker.
It has not yet appeared on soc.religion.bahai.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <77ij27$bnl@news3.newsguy.com>...
>Has anyone seen the RESULT posted on soc.religion.bahai? It has
>appeared on the other newsgroups listed in the CFV.
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
>talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>
>
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:33 AM
Subject: bahai-faith@egroups.com deleted
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Glaysher <fglaysher@hotmail.com>
To: bahai-faith @ egroups.com <bahai-faith@egroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 7:22 AM
Subject: 20 subscribers on bahai-faith@egroups.com
>There are currently 20 subscribers on bahai-faith:
>
> Member Label Since Mode
> aborzo@hotmail.com (alias borzo) 09/22/98 e-mail
> amy-n-ezra@mindspring.com (Amy & Ezra Libowsky) 01/12/99 e-mail
> bintyaya@aol.com 05/11/98 e-mail
> dmarasco@npsnet.com 10/09/98 Web
> ewl@harvey.lib.il.us 01/08/99 e-mail
> fglaysher@hotmail.com (Frederick Glaysher) 04/15/98 e-mail
> harris632@aol.com 04/18/98 e-mail
> house@usq.edu.au (Ron House) 05/19/98 e-mail
> kathleenm@cybertrails.com (McKibben Family) 10/08/98 e-mail
> laaeterna@aol.com 04/18/98 e-mail
> mjavid@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Mesbah Javid) 05/16/98 e-mail
> musdrava@c3.hu (Dráva Múzeum) 12/17/98 e-mail
> rbccrc@bellatlantic.net 09/29/98 Web
> seanm@bwc.org 11/20/98 e-mail
> shadab7@hotmail.com (hamid keshavarz) 11/15/98 e-mail
> silverwings@montana.com 09/25/98 e-mail
> stephenb@polarnet.ca 04/20/98 e-mail
> tracid@idirect.com 01/19/99 e-mail
> whitbrandt@mailcity.com (John Whitbrandt) 05/16/98 e-mail
> xto73@dial.pipex.com 08/10/98 e-mail
>
>Talk.religion.bahai is now available. You may have to
>reset or redownload the list or file of newsgroups from your
>ISP in order to subscribe to it. Since the purpose of the this
>mailing list was to help those unable to follow the discussion
>on alt.religion.bahai to do so until trb was formed, it is no
>longer needed.
>
>I will be deleting it as a viable mailing list in just a few minutes.
>
>If any of you wish to continue it, you have everyone's address
>above with which to do so. Please do not include me.
>
>Thank you one and all for participating!
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------
From: McKenny Michael[SMTP:bn872@freenet.carleton.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 10:47 AM
To: fglaysher@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Antinomies - Frodo
Greetings, Frederick.
If you are well, it is well.
This is just a short not to let you know that TRB is being picked
up on FreeNet here.
May the future exceed your highest hopes.
All the Best,
Michael
"Frederick Glaysher" (fglaysher@hotmail.com) writes:
> Frodo:
> "But I have been too deeply hurt, Sam. I tried to save the Shire,
> and it has been saved, but not for me. It must often be so, Sam,
> when things are in danger; some one has to give them up, lose
> them, so that others may keep them. But you are my heir...."
> J.R.R. Tolkien
>
> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>
>
--
"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
(Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
----------
From: Frederick Glaysher[SMTP:fglaysher@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 11:35 AM
To: bn872@freenet.carleton.ca
Subject: Re
|